The Hawks make a trade, but it’s not the trade they needed
Kirk Hinrich: He's a solid pro, not a savior. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The Hawks needed to make a trade in the worst way, and the trade they made wasn’t the worst ever. It was OK. Not great, not awful. Just OK.
They shipped Mike Bibby, who was too old and not really a point guard anymore and imported Kirk Hinrich, who’s a good player but who hasn’t been exclusively a point guard himself. They shed Mo Evans, who was expendable, and Jordan Crawford, about whose promise they’d raved only last summer, and acquired Hilton Armstrong, who’s averaging 1.9 points and 2.8 rebounds.
Best-case scenario: Hinrich does his hybrid-guard act — he used to be quite good at it, but his numbers haven’t been anything special the past four seasons — and puts the other Hawks in the right position and this team manages to win a first-round series.
Worst-case scenario: Hinrich fails to mesh with Joe Johnson — say what you want about Bibby, but he and Johnson made a nice tandem — and the Hawks, who have bombed out in Round 2 the past two seasons, bomb out in Round 1 this spring.
Either way, the addition of Hinrich and Armstrong is no cause for re-calibration of this team’s ceiling. The Hawks aren’t much different today than they’ve been for the past three years. They’re a pretty good team in an Eastern Conference that keeps getting more competitive at the top.
If the notion was to find a galvanizing talent at this deadline, they failed. The man that would have remade the local club just got traded to New Jersey, and he was, fittingly enough, one of the two famous men on whom general manager Billy Knight passed to draft Marvin Williams in 2005. Utah moved to trade Deron Williams, and the Hawks apparently weren’t in the bidding. (Deron Williams was picked one spot ahead of Chris Paul, and the two have long ranked, to the Hawks’ lasting chagrin, among the NBA’s five best point guards.)
Instead the Hawks landed Hinrich, who’s a solid pro but not an All-Star, and Armstrong, who’s a younger Jason Collins. And it’s clear the Hawks were the desperate party here: Why else trade three players for two and throw in a first-round pick to boot? That’s a high price to pay for a hybrid guard who was made superfluous in Chicago by Derrick Rose and who isn’t needed in Washington because of John Wall.
Say this, though, for Rick Sund: At least he did something. At least he acknowledged what had become blatant: This team as constituted had reached its peak and was on the descent. It hasn’t fallen to pieces yet — it’s still fifth in the East — and it’s surely too talent to collapse utterly, but the talent that had been compiled and nurtured by both Knight and Sund has topped out. It needs something else, even if the something else is little more than change for change’s sake.
Two NBA teams had had the same starting lineup since February 2008: One is the Celtics, who’ve won a title and graced another NBA final; the other was the Hawks, who hadn’t managed to win a game beyond the first round. Bibby was the last of that starting five to arrive — he came by way of a February deal with Sacramento — and he wasn’t the Bibby of old at any time in his Atlanta stay. But he was a solid pro who knew how to play, and without him these Hawks might never have made the playoffs at all.
Now he’s gone, and it was past time for him to leave. This trade is probably enough to keep the Hawks ahead of the Knicks in the East, probably not enough to elevate them above Orlando for fourth place. It gives them hope in the sense that something has been done, but the right something again eluded this franchise. Deron Williams, the guy they needed back in 2005 and needed today, got traded on Wednesday, and it wasn’t to the Hawks.
By Mark Bradley
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272 comments Add your comment
Zach
February 23rd, 2011
9:57 pm
I think that when we play anyone that has ever been on orlando we struggle
Tweets that mention The Hawks make a trade, but it isn't the trade they needed | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
February 23rd, 2011
9:58 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, Bleu Cheese. Bleu Cheese said: RT @MarkBradleyAJC: #Hawks make a trade (for Kirk Hinrich), but not the trade they needed. Story of their lives, huh? http://bit.ly/eSGhrg [...]
Mike
February 23rd, 2011
9:58 pm
I think that there is another trade is coming, besides there is a jog jam at C, and we need to give up Josh, he has hit his ceiling here and he need to move on.
Zach
February 23rd, 2011
10:00 pm
Phoenix announcers think that the hawks were better under woodson, i’m not sure i disagree. Is that scary or what?
latoya
February 23rd, 2011
10:01 pm
Hawks keep making stupid trades. You need to get a excellent point guard in order to get a champsionship, but we keep letting the good ones get a way.
JOSH SMITH FOR 3!
February 23rd, 2011
10:01 pm
Damnit, BW, read the article! Mark said that this trade keeps Atlanta ahead of NY!!
There’s just no way that Bradley could be wrong, I mean the Hawks got Kirk Hinrich and the Knicks got Carmelo Anthony, who’s really not a big deal!
Plus, Rick Sund promised that Josh Smith is as good at Lebron James, and Marvin Williams has more raw talent than Michael Jordan. This team WILL BE in the NBA FINALS!!
nobody
February 23rd, 2011
10:02 pm
Larry Drew is not a championship caliber coach. Can anyone prove me wrong?
Ryan's Dad
February 23rd, 2011
10:03 pm
It would be sad to be a Hawk or a Wizard.
John Tesh Nukes The Fish Heads
February 23rd, 2011
10:04 pm
Braves fire Bobby, and Hawks fire Bibby.
Finally, I can take Atlanta sports seriously.
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:04 pm
i know i do not know as much about the Hawks as some of you…but to say they are not a winning org. is like saying when was the last time ..you won a championship…not lately…but I have enjoyed winning seasons over losing seasons..oooh you just do not have the drive to get to the top…your right I enjoy each day..and every win ..not saying a lostdoesn’t bother me..not totally content, but not tollaly critical either
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:05 pm
j-tesh you stepped over the line with BC comment
nobody
February 23rd, 2011
10:05 pm
I kinda wish the hawks would become the Golden State Warriors. They are never going to win anything, but at least they are really fun to watch. Face it. The East will be about 3-4 teams for the next 5-7 years and the hawks are not one of them.
Hawks Fan Norcross
February 23rd, 2011
10:06 pm
Mark, how do the fans contact Rick Sund.
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:07 pm
ohh let’s compare the hawks to the wizards
Reid Adair
February 23rd, 2011
10:08 pm
Don’t forget the draft pick, Mark. Basically, it was four for two. Hinrich isn’t that much of an improvement over Bibby to merit giving away Jordan Crawford AND a draft pick.
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:10 pm
your right NB sometimes they are hard to watch,,other times I think they are actually playing bb…but overall they have a shot..who is to say…I know wishful thinking
Wendy
February 23rd, 2011
10:11 pm
The thing with Kirk’s numbers over the last 4 years is that he has played significantly more minutes at the 2 than at PG, and he’s better at PG. Maybe he’s too old now to notice much, but I’m thinking playing mainly/exclusively at PG will actually be better than the past few years. It’s not a home run in the long term, but for now I do see it as a substantial upgrade. The big issue is having time to mesh.
Dawg A
February 23rd, 2011
10:11 pm
Terrible trade!!! A first round draft pick? You have got to be kidding!! Another ASG idiotic move! ASG……… sale the team!
Sam
February 23rd, 2011
10:12 pm
People, calm down… the draft pick will be near the end of the first round, not top 10. Like we really need another Pape Sy on our roster. Get real NBA vets instead of marginal players coming out of college.
todd grantham
February 23rd, 2011
10:13 pm
is that enough to offset the typical blowout?
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:14 pm
just do not sell them to outta town…uh,,,Dawg A
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:15 pm
stick to fb defense tg your blogg name already offends me
Vick Supporter
February 23rd, 2011
10:16 pm
Man I’m tired of this shi!t. We gave them a FIRST ROUND PICK for Hinrich? I guess a first round pick in the NBA is not as valuable as in the NFL. We STILL have Marvin Williams…WHY?!? They should have traded his ass somewhere…at least Bibby knew how to play! And we draft Jeff F’in Teague, who we all knew would suck…Acie F’in Law…and I still watch these clowns on TV…believe or not I’m loyal except to the Falcons…Damn Hawks are killing me
Gilk
February 23rd, 2011
10:16 pm
I don’t like giving up the 2011 1st rd pick, but this is predicted to be one of the worst drafts in the past 10 years. Let’s all take a deep breath and access after tomorrow at 3p … I am hoping (and praying!) that there is another move to be made. Especially since they traded away 3 players and only got back 2 … really 1.5 since Armstrong is just a warm body … Hawks are his 5th or 6th team in as many years right?
I think you MUST trade Jamal’s expiring contract for either a big body or more perimeter D. What about Jamal straight up for expiring contracts of Houston’s Aaron Brooks and Battier?!?
grip
February 23rd, 2011
10:17 pm
One of the first things that is taught in business is don’t count the other guys money!!! Worry about yours!! We needed a PG and got a better than average defender, somewhat capable shooter, a guy who is tough as nails, and is better than what we had, Rome wasn’t built in a day, all we have to do is package up crawford and pachuilla and get Chris Kaman. Crawford is potential and he dosent play the point, bibby is washed up, and Mo Evans contract is up next year, its a one person trade, plus a low draft pick in a really weak draft. I think sund is overrated, but he did his thing on this one, GOOD JOB, If Crawford avg. 16 pts. a game next year its still a good move, BECAUSE HE DOESN’T PLAY POINT GUARD!!
more of the same
February 23rd, 2011
10:20 pm
another bad trade by the incompetent hawks management—this franchise is a total joke. I hope they leave with the thrashers.
John Tesh Nukes The Fish Heads
February 23rd, 2011
10:20 pm
Bobby Cox underachieved with superior talent: DEAL WITH IT!!
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:20 pm
dang I like your guts SD..but that’s what got me banned from chickenshultzie…sorry…little of a personal vendetta there
Chuck UGA
February 23rd, 2011
10:21 pm
Hawks are A mess. Stuck and going nowhere, especially with this trade. Hinrcih has done nothing since leaving Chicago. Losing Bibby is a mistake, especially for the post-season. Hilton who? Guess this is no surprise since they did not have the will to hire a solid head coach. Hawks will be back to <.500 in two year. Going nowhere with lousy ownership and a lousy administration. It's all about the money.
Vick Supporter
February 23rd, 2011
10:22 pm
@more of the same
Hell no they shouldn’t sell the hawks. We still need some NBA around this “sports” town even though we will get destroyed in the playoffs
NBA Trade Rumor: Kirk Hinrich To Atlanta – Dime Magazine | The Basketball Site
February 23rd, 2011
10:23 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
just wondering
February 23rd, 2011
10:24 pm
O’k, so no one answered my question about Pop eye… so I looked it up from July 10th this past year.. Michael Cunningham’s article.. this guy sounds good.. MB or others, what’s up with him…
Pape Sy (pronounced “Pop See”) is getting positive early reviews. It seems he really did kind of come out of nowhere–he said he didn’t work out for any other teams, though Milwaukee had some interest.
– Pape said he played both guard positions in France. So how did a 6-7 French kid become a point guard? Credit his mother Fatim, whom Pape said coaches youth players in France. “When I was young I wasn’t really tall. [But] my dad is taller than me [so] my mom knows that I would be tall. So she [taught] me how to handle the ball and after that I grew.”
– Pape is legitimately 6-7 and quick with long arms. Those are the tools for a good defender and Pape also seems to have the tenacity for it. “He’s a good defender,” L.D. said. “Ask Jeff Teague. Took [the ball] from him. [Teague] got a little lackdasical with the ball and he just took it from him. He’s a gritty defender. He’s got good size, he’s got long arms and he’s got an aggression about him. You can’t be lax around him.”
basketballjones
February 23rd, 2011
10:27 pm
When we missed Deron Williams in the draft we were doomed…they also passed up some big bodies. I like Horford but not at center.
Deron Williams,Jamal Crawford,Joe Johnson,Josh Smith and a rebounding machine at center
would have run the old Celtics off the floor. Instead we are too small to rebound, and don’t have a point guard to run, so we walk the ball up and try to post up bigger players…not well thought out plan.
Henrick adds nothing to this mix.
O'Brien
February 23rd, 2011
10:28 pm
Mark,
How do u propose we get deron Williams? We don’t have any lottery picks (present or future ) that Utah would be interested in…
And we didn’t have a solid PG to offer either.
PAKKORNER.INFO ~ Hawks find point guard in Hinrich – Atlanta Journal Constitution
February 23rd, 2011
10:28 pm
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Craig
February 23rd, 2011
10:29 pm
The Hawks and the Thrashers are both close to packing it in for the season. What a sad mess this ownership has put us in. Where is the basball season?
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:29 pm
let’s see I think you must be onthe Hall of Fame comm..fishy head..but you need to stay of BC because he knows more about baseball than you know about flacid..well maybe not
kral
February 23rd, 2011
10:34 pm
i just can not imagine a ATL fan having a problem with BC…if you do…your a blooming idiot…an maybe and onion…go to outback
MitchC
February 23rd, 2011
10:36 pm
I like Mark as a person, and as a writer, but.. after.. two years of posting on his blogs about both the Hawks and Braves.,. I’m used to his.. rather pessimistic viewpoints on things.
Unless I missed something,. Mr Bradley.. you made clear that you thought this was not the right trade for the Hawks. What you did not say was.. what you thought would have been the right trade for the Hawks at this time.
While I don’t follow the Hawks as closely as I do the Braves.. I don’t take the same pessimistic view you do. Bibby was our oldest starter, and we got what you admit was a decent package for him.. so.. my question is.. what’s your beef? Did you think we should trade Joe Johnson, or Josh Smith?
People may not want to hear this.. but.. I’m not sure that the reality is, that this team hasn’t reached it’s peak. Maybe it is a team on the decline. We escalated in wins every year since 2005, maxing out at 53 last year. Maybe the reality is that we were just never as good as Boston, Orlando, LA, and weren’t going to win a championship.
Again, only my opinion, but I’m used to Mark’s style of writing by now. Hardly.. if ever.., about either the Braves.., or the Hawks.. have I ever heard him say.. “Yes, great move”.
nash
February 23rd, 2011
10:46 pm
Ha who the h__l is this Armstrong guy. I’ve never heard of this guy before. What team has he played for other than Washington. What was this guy thinking. In terms of loosing a first round pick this was a waste. Don’t the hawks all ready have two or three guys just like him that don’t play? What did Sund go back and get a version of Bibby from 3 years ago that can’t shoot as well. I am loosing faith in this team as the years go by. It’s like 2008 in reverse.
You guys suck
February 23rd, 2011
10:48 pm
Thanks for complaining, Mark. Where were they supposed to get an All-Star? What expiring contracts or enticing draft picks did they have as bait? Even a “better” player like Ray Felton would be a bad fit here because of his inability to hit the open three. Hinrich can fit into what the Hawks do, and do it better than Mike Bibby, who spent the last year auditioning to be an extra on “The Walking Dead.”
oknow
February 23rd, 2011
10:50 pm
ok now trade Josh Marvin and Jamal to Charlotte for Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace
Tn Fan
February 23rd, 2011
10:55 pm
I give a thumbs up to grip’s post. A man or woman with some sense!
G. Tampa Bedwetter
February 23rd, 2011
10:55 pm
The Hawks management started as a “Looney Toon” bunch of idiots; today is just this year’s edition.
oknow
February 23rd, 2011
10:58 pm
Hinrich/Teague
Joe/Stephen Jackson
Wallace/Wilkens
Horford/Powell
Armstrong/Collins/ZaZa
Tn Fan
February 23rd, 2011
10:58 pm
No way we can D Williams – we couldn’t offer more than the Nets
No way we get D Harris – he was part of the D Williams deal
Tried for Felton – Denver says they are not trading him
Tried for Sessions – could be that Mo Williams’ injury kept us from getting him
Phoenix is stupid and won’t trade Nash
So we got Hinrich.
I don’t think we could do much better.
vuduchld
February 23rd, 2011
10:58 pm
Another Hawks laugher. I told a friend of mine a few hours ago that the Hawks are joke. This sorry trade proves that.
BarneyStrickland
February 23rd, 2011
10:59 pm
The Hawks are gonna be sold…SOON. I laugh when everyone talks about the thrashers…. the Atlanta Spirit had to sign JJ to keep the nucleus together. Trust me on this Mark… You read it here first. The Hawks are much more sellable at this point…. at least they make the playoffs. It’s in the works…they are gonna stay in the ATL but they are gonna be sold!! That douche bag Michael Gearon has pissed away enough of Ted’s money…. nuff said….
MQ3000
February 23rd, 2011
11:00 pm
Can’t blame this one on Billy Knight….
loservill;e
February 23rd, 2011
11:04 pm
this is why the national media calls atlanta loserville—it fits. Total morons running these worthless franchises.