Live from Philips Arena: Should the Hawks try a Magic trick?
Vince Carter: No longer Magic. Joe Johnson: Still a Hawk. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The Hawks spent the past two seasons trying to get past Orlando, trying and failing. A check of the standings shows that Atlanta is again gazing up at the Magic, though the Magic team that will appear tonight at Philips Arena has been rendered unrecognizable. Because we saw over the weekend how much the Magic valued simply finishing ahead of the Hawks.
With two trades, the Magic dumped everyone of note except Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson. Vince Carter, gone. Rashard Lewis, gone. Mickael Pietrus, gone. Marcin Gortat, gone. For those keeping score at home, that marks an offloading of two starters and two rotational subs.
The Magic wound up with Hedo Turkoglu, who used to play for Orlando but left as a free agent, plus Gilbert Arenas, Jason Richardson and Earl Clark. That’s a major December overhaul for any team, especially one that holds fourth place in the NBA East. (The Hawks are fifth.) And there’s no guarantee it will work. But functionality isn’t the issue today; ambition is.
The Magic reached the NBA finals in 2009 and looked primed to do it again last season, but they were bounced in the Eastern Conference finals by Boston, which entered the playoffs as the East’s No. 4 seed. Orlando had just obliterated the No. 3 seed — your Atlanta Hawks — by the record aggregate of 101 points in four numbing Round 2 games.
Then LeBron James made his Decision and the NBA Southeast — heck, the whole NBA — changed. The Magic entered the season having chosen to combat the star-spangled Miami Heat with good ol’ continuity. That worked for a while: Orlando won 15 of its first 19 games. Then it hit a rough patch. (How rough? Well, the Magic lost at home to the Hawks.) Meanwhile, the Heat embarked on a winning streak that has reached 12 games and lifted LeBron’s crew to the top of the division.
And Orlando, depending on your slant, either recognized reality or panicked big-time. His team having lost four times in five games, Magic general manager Otis Smith deep-sixed a blueprint that won 59 games last season to bet on the likes of Arenas, who was suspended by NBA last season for celebrating Bring Your Firearm To Work Day, and Turkoglu, who isn’t as good now as he was when he left Orlando 18 months ago.
Which brings us, however circuitously, to the Hawks. They’ve had the same starting lineup since Mike Bibby arrived in February 2008. They’ve had success — taking the champs-to-be Celtics to Game 7 in 2008; winning a playoff series in 2009 and 2010; going 100-64 over the past two regular seasons — but they’ve exited the same way two springs running: Getting swept in Round 2. Yet these Hawks are essentially the same as last season’s, the only difference being the head coach.
The Hawks won their first six games under Larry Drew, who was promoted when management, such as it is, decided Mike Woodson’s longtime assistant was just the man to take them where Woodson could not. They’ve since gone 11-12, losing to every opponent of note save Orlando. Joe Johnson missed 2 1/2 weeks, which didn’t seem to matter one way or another, which doesn’t say much for the Hawks’ decision to keep him at the staggering cost of $120 million.
And now we ask: The Hawks have changed coaches and re-upped Johnson, and they’re on pace to win 48 games, down from the 53 of last season. They’ve done little to suggest they’d have a postseason prayer against the Celtics or the Heat — the Magic’s status is in definite flux — and by shedding Woodson the Hawks essentially said, “We want to do better.”
The Magic saw themselves as not being quite good enough and took a flier. Should the Hawks, who weren’t as good as the Magic, do the same? Should they break up their longstanding Core Four? If so, who’d leave? (By process of elimination, it would have to be Josh Smith. Al Horford’s too good, and nobody would take Johnson’s salary and nobody wants Marvin Williams.) Do they cut ties with Jamal Crawford, who’s seeking a new contract?
Or do they stay the course, even if the course isn’t apt to take them anywhere they haven’t already been? The Magic weren’t satisfied with what they’d done and what they had. Are the Hawks?
By Mark Bradley
About here, we move to the snappy discourse part of our program. I’m at the arena and will be happy to chat with one and all about the Hawks, the Magic and the world in general. And you should know that the Magic are starting a team — Turkoglu and J. Richardson are in the lineup — that hasn’t yet practiced. Said Stan Van Gundy, the Orlando coach: “The Hawks have been together six years; we haven’t been together six hours.”
Please join me for a fun-filled and frolicsome evening. To borrow from James Brown: Please, please, please. As ever, I thank you in advance.
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209 comments Add your comment
rawdawg
December 20th, 2010
1:25 pm
First
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:26 pm
yes
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:27 pm
but they don’t need to blow the whole thing up.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
1:28 pm
rawdawg on an awesome streak — six firsts in eight days. Kudos sextupled.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:28 pm
Is Joe Johnson untradeable because of his contract?
The Real Hawk
December 20th, 2010
1:29 pm
WE are know that’s is NOT going to happen.
Even though it should.
You have to have brains and balls.
We have neither…
WOW
December 20th, 2010
1:31 pm
TRADE EVERYONE…except Horford!
WOW
December 20th, 2010
1:32 pm
Also…go outside the box on a head coach…Drew is not the answer. If he was, then he could have done something under Woodson. MAKE A STATEMENT WITH THE TEAM AND COACH
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:33 pm
The Hawks need to do something, they can’t compete in playoffs as constructed.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
I read all the stuff about how the Hawks had no choice but to sign JJ to a max contract. It was crap…it would have only been a short term PR hit to dump him provided he wouldn’t have accepted a fair contract.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
Yes, Ted M. Nobody has that much space on their roster.
three jack
December 20th, 2010
1:36 pm
i say give it a while longer, let the team have a chance to run drew’s offense. it would be a huge mistake to trade josh.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:38 pm
I missed last nights game.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:43 pm
yeah I guess. At least we only have 1 more year of McLouth. I know JJ has skills and McLouth doesn’t.The hawks can’t compete in playoffs as constructed and my first reaction was to suggest trade everyone except Smith and Horford but that means trade no one.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:45 pm
Sund screwed up big time w/that contract.
No Woody
December 20th, 2010
1:48 pm
Al Horford for Chris Paul in sign and trade. I like Al, but this team isn’t going anywhere. Put Chris Paul with JJ and Josh and who knows?
On another note, Mark do you ever get Arthur Blank’s ear? If so, can you ask him if during the next collective bargaining meetings, if he could let everyone know that people in Atlanta do not care about the Colts or Jaguars! The NFL needs to get rid of its regional programming paradigm. If we have to watch the AFC, give us the Jets, Patriots, Steelers or Ravens, not the frigging Colts and Jags!
Ayhan
December 20th, 2010
1:50 pm
Who is Heko Turkoglu?How did you come up with that name?
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
1:50 pm
The Orlando moves were so surprising and bold. It will be quite interesting to find out if they were wise.
Nathan Darling
December 20th, 2010
2:03 pm
The real thing is the “CORE” does not work. The main thing is I hate to say it, but trade J-Smoove. Trade Jamal and Josh smith for CARMELO ANTHONY. Joe Johnson would be a great sidekick for Carmelo.
Line up for this year
1. Mike Bibby
2. Joe Johnson
3. Carmelo Anthony
4. Marvin Willams
5. Al Horford
Next year get a big man and Play Al at the 4.
Nathan Darling
December 20th, 2010
2:04 pm
and I love Carmelo what do you think about that Mark Bradley.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
2:06 pm
The Hawks need to be bold but I have no idea of what they could or should do.
So Mark get to work throw some plausible scenarios out there.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
2:10 pm
Nathan Darling that couldn’t be worse, if its possible. I’d have Marvin come off the bench and start Josh Powell.
sleeze
December 20th, 2010
2:13 pm
Funny how the Hawks didn’t miss a beat when Johnson was out. Kinda like how the AJC rolls on just fine even when you and Schultz are out.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
2:15 pm
It could be a long long time before the Hawks via for a championship.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
2:17 pm
Mark what would Sund say if you asked him if he thinks the Hawks could win it all this year?
Whopper Dawg
December 20th, 2010
2:19 pm
Depends on what you want, I think a poster to another Hawks column summed it up well as follows:
They are good to not make the lottery but not good enough to be relevant in the playoffs.
And with the actions and the apparent length of vision of the current management, I don’t see them moving up from this position. A downward move over time seems like the likely outcome.
Astro Joe
December 20th, 2010
2:22 pm
How many owners would need to agree to make a trade happen? Based on that answer alone, is there any need to speculate further?
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
2:26 pm
Are you kidding me Bradley, this Hawks organization is not committed to winning the only free agents we went after was Joe J. & Shaq. There is somthing way deeper to what is going on behind closed doors with the front office that is making us look unattractive to players on the move. CP3 & Melo even mentioned teams like Portland & New Jersey on their wish list. What the !!!!!
Sorry but Sund is not even in the same league as Otis Smith. Orlando’s GM can get players to come play for him even it doesn’t always work out, but Sund has no pull around the league. Liberty Media can only finance whatever Sund puts before them. Hate to say it but there probably won’t change at the top until this team starts to decline then, Liberty Media will be looking for the next Ainge way too late.
Really?
December 20th, 2010
2:30 pm
Joe is untradeable? The Magic just traded for Arenas. If *he* can get traded, then anyone can.
Mike
December 20th, 2010
2:37 pm
Good question, Mark. The first problem I see is Drew as head coach. The Hawks should have gone outside the organization to find a coach. Secondly, they do have to upgrade their roster. Unfortunately, the ownership has shown no desire to spend with the other teams in the league. The Hawks were the only playoff team not over the cap last year.
I think they need to try to trade for a legitimate center. They need to trade Smith and a couple of good young players for some better inside presence. Horford is too small. The Hawks interior is not able to police the paint properly against slashing guards and big men like Howard, Bosh, or Garnett and Shaq.
jay
December 20th, 2010
2:37 pm
Orlando just made one of the worst trades ever. The best player they got was Jason Richardson who is only a slight improvement over Vince. If Arenas can still play he’s only a slight upgrade to Pietrus, but Pietrus is a proven ROLE player who can fit in multiple schemes where as Arenas has only shown one type of style. They have gotten smaller with Gortart(sp) gone. Please, whatever we do we don’t need to make any deal that even slightly resembles that mess of a trade.
tremaine
December 20th, 2010
2:38 pm
Time to get rid of Marvin.
PaulieOldSchool
December 20th, 2010
2:40 pm
Ambition costs money. Ownership won’t spend any money. Ergo, the Hawks have no ambition. The JJ decision was the worst possible move in that it handcuffed the team where they live–the wallet. Oh, yeah, and he isn’t worth the money. There’s that, too.
jay
December 20th, 2010
2:40 pm
Everyone wants to get rid of Smoove. WIthout a real damn center our ‘in the paint’ defense would prolly rank at the lowest in the league. Smoove is the only person on our team that defends the basket and that includes Horford.
jay
December 20th, 2010
2:43 pm
@Paulie – The spirit have spent the money. Every player that has become a FA has been paid. The real question is who are you trading and what are you getting back, because in the NBA you’re trading contract value for like contract value. The only difference would be the years. If the trade doesn’t involve a top line center or a top line point guard, we need to just roll with what we got.
seminoles
December 20th, 2010
2:43 pm
We need to make some changes. How about JJ, Bibby and Jamal Crawford for Carmelo and Billups?
hbcuclassics
December 20th, 2010
2:44 pm
Hawks have pieces:
Bibby
Evans
Pachulia
Teague
Crawford
Identifying the fix is the problem, this team lacks chemistry despite keeping the core together. They still cannot get easy buckets down low or defend the bigger teams. Lately, they cant even defend the perimeter.
They have to be honest with themselves, to date, they have not.
Teague was another mistake.
Jordan Crawford was not, it’s time to groom him, not Teague.
Bibby is yesterday’s news.
Marvin is on the upswing, a team will take him.
Smoove is limited offensively, but has uber-athleticism that will always allow him to make plays.
JJ is inconsistent to say the least.
ZaZa is decent, needs to play more.
Evans is history.
Horford’s offensive emergence has hurt the overall chemistry.
Jamal Crawford ain’t playing no more without an extension.
Hawks failed to sign Shaq, which was a huge mistake. Losing Jamal now, really let’s the air out the tire. JJ is a nice piece, but no Atlas. Crawford can simply get his, JJ cannot. Smoove and Horford are nice young studs that you dare not part with. Marvin is another complimentary guy.
Hawks must trade complimentary guys for aggressive playmakers. If this were Duke or UNC, those guys would be more valuable, but its the NBA and stars win games!
Go get some unabashed STARS!
Paul
December 20th, 2010
2:45 pm
Bottom line is that we have to face what we don’t want to hear, Joe Johnson is stuck with us because of his contract so we have to make the best of it. We can’t afford Marvin Williams or Jamal Crawford so we should trade them both for a decent supporting player, or put Marvin Williams on the bench as a backup PF and start Zaza who averaged a double double for us before as a starter. We should also trade Mike Bibby we can do so much better…Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford can be apart of this core in the future as they are both full of potential but we need to make a trade now, Josh Smith or Al Horford may have to go sadly……
Yellow is VERY, VERY ugly
December 20th, 2010
2:48 pm
Atlanta has a NBA team??
What did we do wrong??
How do we get rid of it??
moboman
December 20th, 2010
2:49 pm
The Magic trade is a flop. They will miss Gortat and Vince more than they will benefit from what they got. Trading bravado doesnt guarantee success. I see no chemistry in roles for this trade. Wont be long before the grousing begins. I agree with Jay.
OBX Dawg
December 20th, 2010
2:52 pm
Somebody has already said it. “If Arenas can be traded, then so can Joe”. Trade JJ to Denver for Carmelo. They WILL do it. They are facing the prospects of getting NOTHING for him by not trading for him during the next 6 weeks.
Me, I’d be happy just getting rid of JJ and that albetross of a contract. I’d rather make a 3 month run with Melo and lose him to FA than to have to endure 5 more years of the overated JJ. Keep Josh. He is capable of still developing. Trade JJ and Jamal. i like Jamal but there’s no way he’s coming back next year.
ryan
December 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
We should go after Steve Nash reunite him with Joe because JJ played better with Nash and also the Suns are looking for expiring contracts also hear J Chill is on the block Trail Blazers to are putting players on the block .
oldmike
December 20th, 2010
3:00 pm
I don’t see this team competing for anything beyond a first round exit from the playoffs. They are no better than a 5th seed this year and can’t beat even the bad teams like the Nets and Pistons. They look lost for LONG stretches. They look worse than they did under Woodson. Can’t believe I said that.
Their games are mostly unwatchable. No identity. Maybe it’s early but it is strating to get late. Plus this ownership group will never do anything out of the box. Our only hope as Hawks fans is for the ASG to sell the team.
Thank God for the Falcons. Sadly even the Thrashers are playing inspired Hockey in the 11th year of Don Waddells’ 5 year plan.
moboman
December 20th, 2010
3:01 pm
Any trade that doesnt bring a legitimate center is a waste of time. As much as I like Horford, I would trade him for a REAL center (only if the right deal could be done), and go with the Josh’s at the 4.
Unless Teague develops a real jumper, his was a wasted pick. Would rather see Bibby in there and develop Jordan C.
Ted Striker
December 20th, 2010
3:02 pm
Arenas was the catalyst, everything else was a domino. Unless there is a similar catalyst for Atlanta, stand pat.
Your friendly poker player,
Ted Striker
moboman
December 20th, 2010
3:03 pm
Jchill is on the block because Phoenix has now realized what we already knew. No thanks.
moboman
December 20th, 2010
3:06 pm
Imagine where we would be if we had drafted an NBA player in addition to Smoove the year we wasted a pick on chills.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
3:07 pm
I believe Sund and the owners know the Hawks can’t vie for a championship this year or any time soon and they admit as much between themselves. Which makes that contract for JJ all the more perplexing. People complain about the Braves owners but they are like George Steinbrenner compared to the Hawks owners.
I’m starting to think the Hawks have no chance EVER of winning a championship.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
3:14 pm
Jeff Van Gundy…get him in here…pry him away from ESPN
He’s been to the Finals with less than what the Hawks have now….and he got there by teaching defense.
Chris Childs, Sprewell, Houston, LJ, and Camby.
Next, make a trade involving Bibby, Mo Evans, and Marvin Williams
moboman
December 20th, 2010
3:15 pm
If you think about it, the Hawks win in Orlando may have been a part of the impetus for the trade. That win may have been the win of the season in that it dismantled a competitor.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
3:18 pm
Available players perfect for the Hawks
Chauncey Billups
Steve Nash
Gerald Wallace
Stephen Jackson
Andre Iguodala
Marcus Camby
J.R. Smith
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
3:18 pm
Orlando may be worse but the Hawks still can’t win in the playoffs.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
3:19 pm
I’ll take Andre Miller too
hmmmm......
December 20th, 2010
3:22 pm
The Hawks need a true center and an upgrade at pg. Bibby is great scorer but can’t defend and who knows what teague can do. I’d say no one on the roster is untradeable, id shop everybody
hmmmm......
December 20th, 2010
3:23 pm
Nash and Camby would be sweet
ATL RAISED INDY LIVING
December 20th, 2010
3:24 pm
Enter your comments here
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
3:27 pm
Can we draft Maya Moore to play PG or get Angel McCautry from the Atlanta Dream to come in for Marvin Williams?
We have absolutely NOBODY with any trade value on this team.
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beone
December 20th, 2010
3:47 pm
Changing things would at least create hope for better days. There is currently no hope and no chance that they improve on the past two years’ results. Keep Horford and Johnson and get a “good” center and point guard. Then fill out the rest of the roster as best you can and go with it.
Ced
December 20th, 2010
4:10 pm
By no means do I believe we get better by trading Josh and keeping Marvin. I think we need to make a trade to get better but if we do it has to be for someone that clearly makes us better and is an improvement over anybody we currently have. I think a trade of marvin, and J Crawford could bring something back. As much as I hate losing Crawford becuase he is clearly our greatest scoring threat, I think he is our best asset to bring in a worthy trade piece. We should maybe explore even trading Teague, because sometimes he looks like a “good” PG and other nights he rarely affects the game, so we should possibly get what we can while he’s still an unknown.
Billy
December 20th, 2010
4:11 pm
Meanwhile, my team, the Spurs are 23-3!
Dawggie
December 20th, 2010
4:13 pm
Joe Johnson and Jos Smith for Carmelo & Nuggets 1st picck in 2011 ?
Gary O
December 20th, 2010
4:17 pm
Hawks need to make a trade. As constructed, with a rookie HC, I think the Hawks ceiling is at best, a second round showing, where they should be more competitive.
At worst, they will lose in the first round.
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
4:24 pm
No hope with Sund in charge, the best move made in the last 5 years for this team is the signing of Jamal Crawford. Now he is not happy here either, what other players in the league would want to become part of this dysfunctional organization?
TruthSeeker
December 20th, 2010
4:26 pm
The Hawks do need a shakeup, but I’m afraid Bradley is barking up the wrong tree. Sund has shown no imagination as a general manager. He’s been very stubborn in maintaining the status quo, and I don’t see him dramatically shifting direction at this point. He believes, first and foremost, in continuity. I don’t agree with his philosophy, but it’s his and he’s not going to change it.
What’s happened to the Hawks this year is exactly what I feared would happen: they’ve stagnated. Guys like Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Al Horford have reached points in their career where they can no longer be expected to take significant leaps forward every year. They’re all further enough along in their careers where their level of production is pretty well established. I did hold out some slight hope that Teague would come out playing like gangbusters this year and lift the team, but I also know that guys who are picked 19th in the draft rarely turn out to be big time difference-makers.
To make a long story short, the Hawks are in no man’s land. They’re a solid team that doesn’t seem to have any path to reaching the elite in the near future because they don’t have any budding stars on the roster and they have a GM that seems perfectly content to be slightly above average. Essentially, we’re right back to where we were in the 1990’s. I guess there’s worse places to be, but the situation right now doesn’t do much to inspire hope.
bill Cody
December 20th, 2010
4:26 pm
The Hawks need a big center and a point guard (in that order.
How about trying Horford with Powelland 4, Josh with Evans at 3, Joe at 2 with ??? at Center and PG.
The problem here is everybody needs a big center, who is available Maybe Lopez in Phoenix, Gasol in Memphis (I don’t think so) or Love in Minn, Blanche in Wash on and on.
Who do the Hawks have to trade, Crawford ??, Williams, Bibby, ZaZa, Joe (I would in a heart beat but no one will take on theat contract).
If possible I would use as a core Horford, Josh, maybe ZAZa and build from there, having 6 or 7 wings will not win unless you have a elite PG and shooter.
I think the Hawks are in trouble (45 wins, 6th seed at best) until the new agreement come into place then tehy could maybe make a few solid moves.
Double Zero Eight
December 20th, 2010
4:28 pm
The Hawks need a true center. The jury is still out on Teague. They are likely to exit in the first round of the playoffs. There is no way for this team to beat the elite teams in the eastern conference.
playoffs. We are a mediocre team. We can’t even beat the bad teams consistently.
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
4:31 pm
Do any of you people out there know the fundamentals of B-ball. Orlando will be fine as long as you have a solid big man in the post you are lock for the playoffs. Whether they got better or worse, if the Hawks meet them in the playoffs they will get crushed. Miami is another team that will get exposed as well as New York, but the big difference is that they are both out shopping for Pryzbilla or any other big man, unlike the Hawks!
balismith
December 20th, 2010
4:34 pm
thought you said the hawks had to resign joe to stay viable..wonder what the hawks coulda done with 120 million for free agents at the start of the season
PureEvil
December 20th, 2010
4:35 pm
Crawford, Bibby and 1st round pick for Steve Nash.
Chuck
December 20th, 2010
4:39 pm
The problem is the clown ex GM Billy doofus Knight did a terrible job of drafting players. The best two players on the team by far are both PF and neither should be playing anywhere near big minutes at another position. Playing Horford out of position at C isn’t fair to him. Smith shooting 3’s is a nightmare.
Bibby is WAY over the hill and is at best a 10-15 minute a game player. I’m sure there must be a reason as both head coaches have treated Teague the same way but we still don’t know anything about Teague. JJ is a candidate for most over paid player in the game. JJ just isn’t a superstar and is at best a third option on a top 4 or 5 team. We all know he disappears when teams decide to play defense in the playoffs. Marvin Williams was a terrible pick then and an even worse pick today.
Where have we heard this before? It’s time to blow up the team and rebuild. I don’t understand how with such a vibrant black community that signing free agents for the Hawks is such a problem.
Smiling Jack
December 20th, 2010
4:50 pm
The Hawks need a big center, but don’t have the balls to make a trade!
wxwax
December 20th, 2010
4:51 pm
Rick Sund is a caretaker type of GM.
I don’t trust him to make a blockbuster trade. Until they get a new GM, I’m Ok with “as is.”
Hawks fans well remember the last time this organization tried to blow things up.
10 years of anonymity with Isiah Rider for company.
No thanks.
Tim
December 20th, 2010
4:52 pm
If there’s a team out there that’s looking for a forward that has marginal ability and walks like he has something stuck up his butt, then Marvin Williams is their guy.
Ted M
December 20th, 2010
4:56 pm
Ha ha, but its true, he actually does walks like he has something stuck up his butt.
Nathan Darling
December 20th, 2010
5:00 pm
Ted M you explain worse, you start Josh Powell and you have no backup PF You play Marvin there because Pf now of days are more athletic and are more of jumpers now. You keep there for the year. Next year you can keep him to come off the bench for melo.
KevinM
December 20th, 2010
5:05 pm
Sund believes in 2 things:
1) The core as it is today…..
2) Standing pat during the season. He hasn’t made a significant move during his time here. I saw ScoreAtlanta tying our terrific GM Sund to the draft of Al and Marvin. Brother! That ought to tell you what this town thinks about this team.
We have 4 pieces of value that have ’some’ trade value: Jamal/Joe/Al/Smoove – Guys who have duplicate skills of each other. The other 2 starters and the remainder of the bench? Any team has the kind of talent on their roster as the Hawks.
I love the guys who blog under MC telling us how tough it will be for teams to match up with us.
11-12 since starting 6-0? Its worse than I thought.
MitchC
December 20th, 2010
5:05 pm
I dont follow the Hawks as closely as I do the Braves. I live in PA, and cant get their games.
Based on what I’ve heard, and what you and the other writers say, here is how I see it:
The Heat are the class of the division, the conference, and maybe.. the league. They have gotten over their rough start.
The Magic changed drastically. It’s either they thought the drastic changes would make them better.. or.. they just concede that they aren’t good enough to get past Lebron/Dewayne and Company in June. (Maybe no one else is, except Kobe).
As for the Hawks, yes, JJ was out 2 plus weeks, but,, this team is very Jekyll Hyde at best. Beat the Magic on the road, but lose to the lowly Nets on the road. Not a good way to go if you’re planning to be a Final Four team in the Eastern Conference.
Realistically, the Hawks are probably in a similar situation in basketball, as the Braves are in with their sport. The Hawks, like the Braves.. are a good ballclub, but not good enough, to play with the elite. The Hawks have a chance to win 50 games, and then they will go down, when confronted with the likes of Boston.. or Miami.
I dont know if it’s time to break the Hawks up. Give JJ 120 mil, but let Josh Smith go? Maybe we cant afford him.. but.. for the Mark Bradley who wrote last spring that the Hawks had to give JJ the Max contract, it sounds like a lot like you are conceding that it’s inevitable the Hawks may take a step backwards.
Maybe the Hawks have just plateaued, much like the 1980s and 1990s Hawks teams did when they were good. The 1980s Hawks teams could never get past the Celtics or Pistons, and the 1990s Hawks teams used to fold when confronted by the likes of the Bulls.
They probably are what they are.., a good team.. that isnt one of the elite in the conference, like Miami. The fans and writers may have no choice but to accept that.
KevinM
December 20th, 2010
5:07 pm
Followup: His move to acquire Jamal came during the offseason…..I am commenting about his in-season decisions…..which restaurant to eat at, which vacation to take, etc.
He is stealing money for what he does during the season.
Ben
December 20th, 2010
5:09 pm
If the Hawks trade Josh Smith I am no longer a Hawks fan
Tom
December 20th, 2010
5:13 pm
Nobody wants Marvin which is all the more reason to try to unload him. Send him and Jamal to Denver, along with a draft pick if necessary for Melo. Put Bibby on the bench behind Teague and run like there’s no tomorrow.
Dejay
December 20th, 2010
5:14 pm
Truthseeker has it right, bullseye on the target. The Hawks are right where they were before the J.R. Rider deal, which is good enough to make the playoffs and that’s about it. Come to think about it, the same can be said about Nique’s teams in the ’80s, the John Drew teams of the ’70s, and so on. Know what all of those squads have in common? Everyone in this town and in their locker room knows that there’s no help coming from the front office when they need it the most. We all know that they’ll sit on their hands when a trade is needed. We all know that they’ll blow the pick if they ever get a shot at drafting high in the lottery (see Williams, Marvin/Williams, Shelden/Childress, Joshua). And we definitely know that they’ll detonate their cap for an overrated player (Koncak years ago, JJ now). WWE Raw has less predictability than this outfit.
That’s the major reason why sooooo many people don’t believe in this franchise and have stayed away from the building unless Kobe, Shaq, or Lebron is in town. A sucker is born everyday but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time and this team has stripteased the fans so much over the years that it’ll take heaven and earth to move in order for them to believe in them again.
So I’ll wait on my couch and watch them play with ‘their core’ until Crawford leaves via free agency, only for them to cry about cap space after a new CBA is put forth and only bring in even MORE minimum-salary players like Jason Collins, Joe Smith, or some CBA wannebee. As they say, second verse….
jay
December 20th, 2010
5:33 pm
All these folks asking for Melo, but Melo wants no parts of Atlanta. Let it go, lol. Stay the course Hawks. You have some great pieces. Once Drew’s system becomes second nature this will be an excellent team with a future because of the offensive system. Also with the loss of Gortat Orlando no longer has a significant size advantage over the Hawks so they will not beat us in a 7 game series with the team they have right now.
QB
December 20th, 2010
5:41 pm
Why isn’t jordan crawford getting more playing time. We should trade Crawford and Bibby for Stevie Nash that would be a sick lineup. Then next year draft the best center availabe with your draft pick.
PG NASH
SG JJ
SF Williams
PF Smith
C Horford
Bench Jordan Crawford, Powell, Teague, ZaZa, evans,
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
5:44 pm
I’m sorry but all this stuff about Sund thinking about the core & continuity just doesn’t cut it. If he had an owner who demanded more of him, even if they didn’t spend a lot money. The truth about Sund would come out, he is just not capable of pulling off the blockbuster deal. He’s not capable of putting together a sweet deal that would lure the big time player to play for the Hawks
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
6:02 pm
@MitchC Miami will never make it past Boston or Orlando for that matter, they have no interior game to speak of. Just like defense in football, thats what big men do for you in basketball when the postseason rolls around.
bulldozier99
December 20th, 2010
6:07 pm
GOT THE FIX…………..Dwight Howard has not sighned an extension that’s why orlando has done all of these trades……get in Dwight’s ear and tell him he can come home to the atl………..EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE AFTER THAT………U GUYS DONT HAVE TO PAY ME FOR THE INFO…….
Charles Barkley
December 20th, 2010
6:10 pm
The Magic made a mistake with Vince Carter and now have corrected that with a solid trade that will immediately shore up some weaknesses–and they probably aren’t done yet. Again the Hawks are looking up at the Magic. The Hawks don’t need Shaq-he’s over the hill.
Will
December 20th, 2010
6:11 pm
Nobody on this hawks team should be untradeable, they have some major problems on this team.
They give Johnson a $ 124 million dollars contract, not only doesn’t he have a bad attitude, he can’t even score 15 pts or more every gm. Lebron James $ 98 million contract, 30 pts per.
The fans know that they are not going to win every gm, but the lack of effort and no pride or urgency has simple turned me completely.
Navigator
December 20th, 2010
6:20 pm
After giving Jo Johnson a billion dollars, I don’t think they have any money left. At least the time Johnson was gone proved two things, first they can win without him, and they can lose without him. Now that he’s back, I don’t expect the team to be a lot better than they were without him. He’s making so much money no other team would even consider him in a trade (stupid is as stupid does).
hawks fan
December 20th, 2010
6:20 pm
to tell the truth they need to see if they can trade for a big man put al at the 4 spot and josh at the 3 and williams not start
LQUE
December 20th, 2010
6:24 pm
ATLANTA needs scoring from the point guard ,shooting guard and small forward positions ,a coach will help look to M.ELLIS, J. WALLACE ,TRADING FOR THESE TWO WILL RIGHT THE SHIP .use TEAGUE,BIBBY,P.SLY,M.WILLIAMS,MO,J.CRAWFORD1 .C.BOSH defensive problems will magnify come playoff time JOSH have proved he can defend get scoring other than JOSH & AL play the seven ATLANTA can compete but not with the front court expecting to carry the scoring load
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
6:27 pm
Dwight Howard has 2 yrs left on his contract, but according to most of these Hawks fans they should trade Josh Smith the only man that has Dwight’s attention ! If Smith is gone who is gonna get into Dwight’s ear & convince him to play for the Hawks. They are good friends who came up in the AAU ranks together. Joe Johnson definately is not gonna convince anybody to play along side him, he couldn’t convince anyone this year.
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
7:01 pm
If Dwight Howard came to the Hawks that would be something special….too bad there’s not enough cap room to make that happen even if he wanted to come
yodaddy
December 20th, 2010
7:01 pm
Atlanta Hawks are primed to get blown out tonight
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:05 pm
lol we know the hawks wont make a trade…I think more people are supporting the falcons more than the hawks now
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:10 pm
Jason Collins starts. To play Dwight Howard. Marvin Williams doesn’t start.
Bandwagon Bill
December 20th, 2010
7:11 pm
Mark, am I remiss in thinking the Falcolns aren’t getting the love they deserve from the media and the NFL? Does that dim their chances?
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:12 pm
not surprised by marving being bench…maybe he can go color a christmas coloring book
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:12 pm
Nope, Bandwagon Bill. A bunch of media folks will go crazy over the Hawks when they beat the Saints on Monday.
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:14 pm
media never gives atlanta sports team love period because they are not use to the teams winning
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:17 pm
lol josh heard howard coming
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:19 pm
hawks scared of howard
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:21 pm
are the comments posting?
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:23 pm
Hawks lead 11-6 after 6:13. The Magic look out of sync. Brandon Bass has taken five shots, Dwight Howard one.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:23 pm
Mark, I thought Please, please, please was a Beatles song.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:23 pm
“Please Please Me” was the Beatles number, I’m fairly sure.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:27 pm
just my luck: do a bit of Christmas shopping at Books, and dang if there wasnt a Books 20% off coupon in the mailbox.
jay
December 20th, 2010
7:27 pm
@Jinx – Howard has an opt out clause for the end of this season.
@yo-daddy – You are too high on the Magic. Turkdoodoo is past his prime. Attack Howard and get him in foul trouble and there goes their interior presence. Then what do you have? Nelson is nice, J Rich is nice, but I’m not sure how many playoff series he’s won. Once Joe completely heals and gets his shot back I see nothing on the Magic that scares me now. Vince has always been a Hawks killer and now he’s gone west. Rashard was a match up nightmare for us and he’s gone to sorry Washington. Gortat coming off the bench was significantly better than whatever center we brought off the bench. This was a great trade for Atlanta.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:28 pm
yes, you are correct on that. i’ve never heard the James Brown song Please Please Please. Or are those words embedded in another song?
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:29 pm
Maybe “Shame, shame, shame” would have been a better lead in considering the state of the Hawks.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:29 pm
Hawks 14, OM 11. Not the greatest game ever.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:31 pm
“Please Please Please” is part of the famous “Live at the Apollo” long player.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
7:34 pm
Zaza needs to be starting every game with horford at the 4 and josh at the 3
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:35 pm
some folks thing James Brown’s best song was Dooley’s Junkyard Dogs. I think “I Feel Good” was his best.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:36 pm
Ole Jamesy sure could dance, but he needed a better hair stylist.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:37 pm
how’s the crowd tonight? thin?
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:37 pm
Hawks up six after the first.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:38 pm
Crowd is bigger than usual
He Hate Me
December 20th, 2010
7:40 pm
I’m torn. Which team am I less interested in? Hawks or Thrashers? Thrashers or Hawks? I have zero interest in each so I guess it’s a test. Mark, you and Schultz would do a great service to this city by taking a nice long vacation to the south Pacific until March Madness.
J.J.M.
December 20th, 2010
7:44 pm
I would release mo evans
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
7:45 pm
Mark I can still shoot better than Mo Evans what is his shooting % this year 15%???
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:46 pm
The Hawks lead 23-18 after 16 minutes
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:47 pm
Mo Evans has missed 67 percent of his tries this season
RockstarWilson
December 20th, 2010
7:49 pm
Orlando making a bad trade should have no bearing on whether the Hawks can or cannot beat the Magic. The Magic ruined their team by getting rid of Rashad Lewis. Lewis is one of the best 3-point shooting guys in nba history. Without Lewis, the Magic are going nowhere. I do like the acquisitions of Turkelu and Gilbert Arenas. Those are brilliant moves. I just wish the Magic could have kept Lewis and the trade would have made more sense if you trade Petrus and Carter for Terkelu and Arenas straight up. That move would have made the Magic the world champions this season. Guaranteed!
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
7:49 pm
what’s the incongruity here: …but before he steps in, let’s pause for station identification. this is the Georgia football network.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
7:50 pm
Orlando is really going to miss Gortat.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:51 pm
Jason Collins with five points in 30 seconds.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
7:55 pm
I agree Rockstar, I bet Joe likes the trade because i remember Peitrus defense giving him problems in the playoffs
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
7:56 pm
Hawks by eight. Lousy game, I must say.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
7:58 pm
Go Jason! man Mark he looks like he lost at least 50 pounds from last season.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:01 pm
I barely remember Collins getting off the bench last season
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:02 pm
Bibby’s pick n roll is are best play the last couple of weeks
jay
December 20th, 2010
8:03 pm
@Rockstar….Even if I totally disregarded Arenas’ off-court problems I can’t ignore two full blown knee surgeries. Now add back in that he’s our there mentally and I don’t see that as a brilliant move esp at the 18 mill or so he’s making per year. Turkudoodoo has been getting dumped from team to team for a reason. He’s not good. Sorry, but Howard and Nelson is all you guys have. J Rich is a nice side piece.
Tweets that mention Should the Hawks seek to work a Magic trick of their own? | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
December 20th, 2010
8:03 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by AJC and Mark Bradley. Mark Bradley said: Live from Philips Arena: The same ol' #Hawks meet the all-new #OrlandoMagic. http://bit.ly/i33NTM [...]
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
8:05 pm
figure it out Mark. you got nothing better to do.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:07 pm
I think he was at Zaza’s new restrants to much last year
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:08 pm
Lead’s at 4. Neither team doing much.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:10 pm
How was that a foul on bibby?
JSS
December 20th, 2010
8:12 pm
@ Mark Bradley…
Name “The Fabulous Flames” and many will forgive you for fanning the flames regarding Joe’s contact?
JSS
December 20th, 2010
8:14 pm
@ Ted Striker…
Co-sign… Happy Holidays!
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:15 pm
Hawks 43, Magic 38. Halftime.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:15 pm
ugly game so far i agree Mark
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:16 pm
Can’t name the Flames, I’m afraid. Can’t name the Atlanta Flames, either.
JSS
December 20th, 2010
8:23 pm
Ugly play at home equals Hawks have a chance against the Magic… Otherwise, you’ll get a lot of last year!
Headley Lamar
December 20th, 2010
8:25 pm
Thrashers winning again tonight.
One of those stories that might force its way to the front.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
8:26 pm
ok: but before he steps in is obviously a batter; and you would not hear that on the Georgia Football network.
Jt
December 20th, 2010
8:28 pm
Mark, I don’t mean to suck-up. Those who know me know I do not pass out compliments easily, but damn you can frame an issue with words. Is that why they keep your ass around?
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:30 pm
I really don’t know why they keep me around, Jt. But I appreciate the sentiment.
Caleb
December 20th, 2010
8:31 pm
Been a pretty boring game so far,but the hawks are winning so fine by me
Caleb
December 20th, 2010
8:34 pm
Lead up to 9
Caleb
December 20th, 2010
8:34 pm
Down to six
Caleb
December 20th, 2010
8:34 pm
Bck to nine hahah
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:35 pm
It looks like were not settling on jump shots early in the 2nd half, besides the bibby 3
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:35 pm
Hawks by 11. Joe with three quick hoops.
Jt
December 20th, 2010
8:37 pm
I hate to say it, but I think JJ is the most expendable. Horford is not! Not going to get anything of value really for Marvin-can only move laterally and since he has been a part of this team for all these years that makes him less expendable. I think most would say Josh should be moved. I think that is absurd. I think he is second only to Al in expendability(according to Microsoft, I coined that word). He is too valuable on so many fronts- scoring, block shots, rebounding, energy- he is not expendable. That leaves JJ- consistent scorer over the long haul. Can take over games at times but hardly ever dominates. I understand why the Hawks originally signed him and understand why they had to overpay to keep him. But of the four- he is expendable and can bring the most back including salary relief.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:38 pm
Can you all imagine a point guard like nelson on the hawks
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:38 pm
Jameer Nelson leaves Mike Bibby. Six-point game
Jeff D.
December 20th, 2010
8:39 pm
Mark, did you hear one of the ESPN talking heads say this about the Magic’s big trades. “It seems like the Magic are merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.” Love it!
JSS
December 20th, 2010
8:39 pm
@ Mark Bradley…
By the way, the “Classic Famous Flames” lineup was the immortal king of call and response Bobby Byrd, Johnny Terry, Bobby Bennett, and “Baby Lloyd” Stallworth. Nothing like “Night Train!”
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:41 pm
Harry the Hawk just offered a version of “The Nutcracker.” It involved a balance beam. I’ll leave it there.
Jt
December 20th, 2010
8:41 pm
Bibby is never going to stop quicker pg. Just not going to happen. But you are not going to get anything for him- you will only get his equal. Teague has to play more in periods of time where he is not required to contribute offensively.
Jt
December 20th, 2010
8:42 pm
Chipper and Freddie at the game!
JSS
December 20th, 2010
8:44 pm
@ Mark Bradley…
The answer to the Famous Flames is in your Blog filter…
@ Willis..
No, because most people in the NBA said Jameer was too small to be effective in the league regardless of his play at St. Joe’s!
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
8:45 pm
To any blogger that is even mentioning a Van Gundy as coaching option has lost it! The two guys have had a welth of talent at their disposal, but could not close the deal with any of those teams. I look for Stan Van Dummy to blow again this year, which may cause Dwight Howard to look in a different direction. I doubt very seriously that Larry drew will inspire him to consider the Hawks, unless they sign one more weapon to this “Core”. I’m sorry but the Magic will go nowhere with Van Dummy at the wheel, but who knows what Drew can do with a real center?
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:46 pm
We’re even at 55.
Jinx Master
December 20th, 2010
8:48 pm
This always were the Hawks show their true colors no intensity in crucial spots of the game. Say it with me NO LEADERSHIP!
Chop It Up All-Star
December 20th, 2010
8:49 pm
No. 2 plays like number 2.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:52 pm
ATL by six.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:53 pm
I have to agree Jt about Bibby, but he still can shoot that rock!
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
I think Bibby has serious foot issues that he doesn’t make excuses for, it seems like he cant cut while defending.
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
Hawks up 65-58 after the 3rd.
Elmore Spencer
December 20th, 2010
8:59 pm
Thrashers dominating 5-1
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
9:00 pm
Mark, they keep you around mostly at my behest. My real surname is Cox.
Elmore Spencer
December 20th, 2010
9:02 pm
That you bobby.
Is this me?
Is that you John Wayne?
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:02 pm
jj we one 50+ games last year and are average age is 25 years old
JSS
December 20th, 2010
9:08 pm
Serious question…
So is there any initial chemistry in the new Orlando lineup?
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:09 pm
I think with are core still young and locked up for the next 4,5 years we will surpass the aging Celtics and magic and it will be the hawks and the heat on top
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
9:10 pm
Very little, JSS.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:11 pm
jss : No
jabowski
December 20th, 2010
9:14 pm
what is the score?
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:14 pm
when zaza plays minutes he produces
Mark Bradley
December 20th, 2010
9:15 pm
Hawks 77-62. Playing pretty well now.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:16 pm
ZAZA needs to be starting!!!!!
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:17 pm
Out rebounding the Magic by 10.
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:17 pm
How did we lose to the Nets last night? Looking ahead?
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:17 pm
Bibby
JJ
Josh
Horford
Zaza
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:18 pm
I agree about starting ZaZa, and I’ve like Marvin off the bench. Better bench player than starter maybe?
Elmore Spencer
December 20th, 2010
9:18 pm
Hard to ultimately get excited about the Hawks.
They still seem to have a ceiling as currently constructed.
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:19 pm
No chemistry at all with the Magic. How are they going to split minutes in the BC? Gotta trade Reddick and Duhon for another big to even things out I would think.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:20 pm
Zaza almost said those famous words that he told Garrnett in the playoffs a couple years ago to howard on that tect
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:23 pm
Out rebounding the Magic by 12. We’re shooting less than 40% and still up. We can still pull a Giants and lose this game however. We are terrible in the 4th quarter.
todd grantham
December 20th, 2010
9:25 pm
actually its Anne Chambers Cox.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:25 pm
hey guys brandon jennings out 4 to 6 weeks
Jack Tarver
December 20th, 2010
9:27 pm
Mark, you make me proud!
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:28 pm
The defense looking a loot better this quarter
Ralph McGill
December 20th, 2010
9:29 pm
Just dont call me Rastus.
JSS
December 20th, 2010
9:30 pm
@ Mark Bradley…
What the heck is Maryland thinking?
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:35 pm
I still don’t trust us. Hope we win by double digits, but I don’t trust us yet.
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:35 pm
Marvin has beasting it lately. I like him off the bench!
SteveW
December 20th, 2010
9:36 pm
Dwight still got 20+ boards. But hopefully in a losing effort.
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:38 pm
Mark would you keep the hawks young core together?
Kevin Willis
December 20th, 2010
9:39 pm
I love the fans counting down the free throw shot from howard
gcs
December 20th, 2010
9:46 pm
Thank goodness they weren’t playing New Jersey!
.
poo
December 20th, 2010
9:52 pm
trade zaza please
Lose Weight It Works - Hawks lose again to lowly Nets - Atlanta Journal Constitution « Lose Weight It Works
December 21st, 2010
3:39 am
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No Crying in Basketball
December 21st, 2010
11:34 am
We made a major change when LD took control of the team. Dumping the iso-joe and the switching D is a mojor change. Old habits aren’t easy to change. I don’t think we have seen what this team is capable of. Learning the new offense and an playing an aggressive defense isn’t going to happen over night. Some games we look good and other games it feels like the team doesn’t show up. If this team shows up every night then it will do just fine. There are a lot of cities that would love to have our team. Trading JJ of Smith will not make us better. The Grass isn’t greener on the other side.
If the team can’t learn LD’s offense and defense plan then changes should to be made. But I feel we will really know it it can until March and April.
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December 26th, 2010
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