What if the indispensable Joe Johnson isn’t so indispensable?
More flattering points of reference exist. (AJC file photo)
Fact: The Hawks paid $120 million to keep Joe Johnson.
Fact: Johnson will miss at least a month after elbow surgery.
Fact: The Hawks won their first game without Johnson.
Question: What if the Hawks play better without Johnson than they did with him?
I don’t think this will happen, mind you. I think he’s an excellent player. Was he worth $120 million? No, but the Hawks were always going to have to overpay to keep him, and not keeping him would have sent an even worse message to the public. (The same public, it must be said, about which Johnson said last spring he cares not one whit.)
I think his team will miss him. But it became clear recently that the Hawks weren’t adapting as well to Larry Drew’s share-the-ball offense as the new coach would like. For one thing, the $120-million man had become just another guy, which I don’t believe is what the Hawks had in mind when they paid him $120 million.
Johnson is averaging 17.1 points, down from 21.3 last season. Maybe this relatively tepid start and his run of lousy shooting — he’d made but 40.3 percent of his shots, down from 45.8 percent last season — was a function of a sore elbow. But the greater point is that the highest-paid free agent of his famous class shouldn’t be the league’s 44th-leading scorer.
But let’s say the Hawks forge a new coalition in his absence. And let’s say Johnson returns in January and matters deteriorate. Would we be justified in thinking the Hawks just made the worst outlay of $120 million since the Colorado Rockies paid that much for a stumpy lefthander a decade ago?
What was that guy’s name again?
Oh, yeah. Mike Hampton.
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111 comments Add your comment
Andy
December 2nd, 2010
1:57 pm
First? Kudos?
Andy
December 2nd, 2010
2:00 pm
On topic though, I think it’s a great opportunity for guys like Mo and Marvin to shine. Joe will come back the same player he’s always been, but if one or both of those guys can gain a little swagger over the next few weeks, we’ll be better because of it.
StottsEra
December 2nd, 2010
2:02 pm
JJ’s huge contract cripples an NBA team much more than it would an MLB team
bfred
December 2nd, 2010
2:05 pm
If, if, if, then yes his return could be an issue. But the team’s definitely going to miss him.
Mark Bradley
December 2nd, 2010
2:06 pm
Kudos, Andy.
gabeaux
December 2nd, 2010
2:08 pm
I’m glad to see you are over your “Cam Newton Must Die” phase. Breathe slowly, perspective will return.
PMC
December 2nd, 2010
2:18 pm
Wait so…are we renaming the next 4-6 weeks “The Playoffs”?
Roymus
December 2nd, 2010
2:19 pm
I’ve never understood the logic of JJ’s $120MM contract. As I understand it, this is how it goes:
1. Joe required a max contract ($120MM) to avoid losing him to free agency.
2. Everyone agrees that Joe is not worth $120MM.
3. Everyone agrees that the Hawks are better (marginally) with Joe than without Joe.
4. If we pay Joe the $120MM, we anger a lot of people who believe he’s not worth it.
5. If we don’t pay Joe the $120MM, we anger a lot of people who (kind of) wanted to keep him.
If the above is true, logically you must let him go, as you have the same outcome (angering a lot of people) but you get to keep the $120MM and (presumably) spend it on players who can actually contribute, especially in the playoffs when Joe goes on vacation. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Tweets that mention What if the indispensable Joe Johnson isn't so indispensable? | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
December 2nd, 2010
2:24 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, Mia Roland. Mia Roland said: RT @MarkBradleyAJC What if the #Hawks' indispensable Joe Johnson isn't indispensable? http://bit.ly/gC1yS0 [...]
Mr. Phil
December 2nd, 2010
2:27 pm
I think some players (Horford, Williams, Smith) will benefit grately from J.J.’s absence individually. I think others ( Crawfords 1 and 2, and Evans) will get more playing time but not necessarily to the team’s benefit. I think still others (ok only one Mike Bibby) will get further exposed for the has-been ( I actually like the guy but please forgive me) that he really is.
This will all add up to a lot of losses. A lot of uneven play. A huge lack of stability. And the rise and succession of one Jeff Teague.
And I still don’t want Joe Johnson in a Hawks uniform. Forget the message it would have sent. The guy is a bumb, the elbows just a weak excuse.
Tosh.No
December 2nd, 2010
2:27 pm
PMC. I think you just won. Blog is over now.
Dr. Warren
December 2nd, 2010
2:29 pm
I too am happy UGA and GT and AUB have been put on pause to address more professional issues, and I too will watch the Hawks without JJ and hope that: a) Jordan Crawford will get a chance to play and develop. b) the Hawks will win most the games on their tough upcoming road trip. c) JJ will be traded for either Chris Paul or Carmelo. (OK, maybe I am dreaming, but it’s late here in China).
Terrell
December 2nd, 2010
2:38 pm
Roymus
The way the NBA contracts work are not like what you would think. Yes we gave Joe $120M because the NBA rules say that a team is allowed to go over the salary cap without penalty to keep their free agents. We only had maybe about 8-10M worth of cap space had we not signed Joe which means we were better off paying him than not and not get anything in return.
Bill
December 2nd, 2010
2:40 pm
Thank God you’re off the Cam crap..thanks again!
jon
December 2nd, 2010
2:43 pm
Thats one game last night, Trust me,where going to miss him. He does plenty on the court… It may go the other and you say: man we miss JJ!
Dannyboy
December 2nd, 2010
2:45 pm
RE: JJ and the $120M contract…if ever a player benefited from being in the right place at the right time it’s JJ…
Joey
December 2nd, 2010
2:46 pm
But didn’t we just bid against ourselves by making that offer before any other team did? He may not have gotten a $80M offer, leaving some money for a big . . .
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
December 2nd, 2010
2:48 pm
when did basketball season start ?
tremaine
December 2nd, 2010
2:49 pm
Last night Joe said he been dealing with elbow issues since last year. Did hawks management no about this before they gave him that big check?
TS
December 2nd, 2010
2:51 pm
I don’t care for the rationalizations that the Hawks “had to” overpay JJ, or that failure to do so would have sent the “wrong message” to the public. The bottom line is that even if JJ were averaging 30 ppg this season and the team could beat other playoff teams, that contract would STILL be a long-term albatross for this franchise. It’s similar to the Derek Lowe situation, but worse.
Mr. Phil
December 2nd, 2010
2:51 pm
Terrell;
You are clearly equating better off to wins, loses, comparable talent, etc. for the short term. Better off in the long term let’s see:
If we had not resigned Joe Johnson,
We wouldn’t have sent the message that the Hawks pay big money for underperforming and insulting fans.
We wouldn’t be stuck with such a no account loser for a leader for the forseeable future.
We wouldn’t have the fact that the Hawks will never win anything rubbed in our face everytime the cowardly number 2 took the court.
I would have reupped my season tickets.
Fresh
December 2nd, 2010
2:54 pm
Mark,
This is the million dollar question that everyone has been asking over the last two seasons. Over the course of the next month, we’ll finally get our answer.
balismith
December 2nd, 2010
3:00 pm
wonder what would have happened if they had let joe walk…120 mill to sign 2 free agents sounds sweet to me… maybe the hawks would have signed a legit center and another shooter… really do not see the greatness in jj…where does he really belong among the top tier ed players in the nba…do not believe many fans of the hawks would have really cared if joe would have been resigned by the hawks…judging by the crowds looks like no one really cares much for the hawks ..period
Section 303
December 2nd, 2010
3:04 pm
bailsmith, if you’re going to use the crowds as a judge of which teams people care about in this town, then we need to get rid of all our pro sports teams. Not a one (and don’t give me the Falcons. I’ve seen them not be able to draw flies to games in the past) really gets much support.
Ever been to Turner Field for a Braves playoff game and the place was not ever close to full? I have.
GT Alum
December 2nd, 2010
3:13 pm
To answer your question, it depends on what trade value JJ brings if all this happens. The silver lining to this contract was supposed to be that it’s tradeable down the line. If the rest of the team steps up to the point that JJ isn’t needed anymore and we can trade him for players that shore up this team’s weaknesses, then no, it’s not really that bad of a signing at all.
GT Alum
December 2nd, 2010
3:15 pm
Fresh -
Actually, it’s the $120M question.
Terrell
December 2nd, 2010
3:23 pm
Balismith,
It’s not that simple. As I stated earlier Atl was allowed to sign Joe to that contract because he was their free agent. The NBA system is set up to allow teams to keep their free agents by allowing them to go over the cap. If we did not sign Joe that doesn’t mean we have all that money to use elsewhere. We are paying him $20M/year. That doesn’t mean if we didn’t sign him that we would have $20M worth of cap space.
Mr. Phil
If we had not sign Joe Johnson.
-We would still have salary cap issues now and for years to come.
-We are telling other NBA players that may become free agents that we don’t pay our players.
-We risk going back to the rut we were in before Joe. You remember that right?
Joe has more value to us than he does to any other team in the NBA, so what would you think we would get back for him? Teams weren’t going to offer him a max contract so a sign and trade would not work because he wasn’t restricted. He could’ve signed with anybody else and we get nothing.
Hankie Aron
December 2nd, 2010
3:24 pm
I don’t think short term as in this year or next that JJ’s contract is tradeable
Hankie Aron
December 2nd, 2010
3:28 pm
Terrell, all valid points, The hawks were backed in a corner. Sometimes people don’t understand the logistics of restricted, unrestricted, sign and trades, and actual values of players to their last team as opposed to another team
Andrew
December 2nd, 2010
3:28 pm
I simply cannot imagine the Hawks suddenly clicking without JJ. That said, what I’m sure fans and Hawks officials are hoping for is that young Jordan Crawford can show enough that he could ultimately make Jamal Crawford expendable and tradable for a big man at the deadline
Hankie Aron
December 2nd, 2010
3:29 pm
I do still wish the Hawks could have payed less and Joe took less because it will be quite a while before trading him will become a viable choice
Terrell
December 2nd, 2010
3:31 pm
Joey
True, in regards to nobody bidding for Joe. Remember though we tried a 5-6 year/ $80M deal before last season and he rejected it. If he were a restricted free agent then we could’ve waited but because he wasn’t he had a lot more leverage. This is case where you have to chose do you let the market determine you player’s value or do you determine it yourself? Either way can send off a message that you may or may not to send.
Willy
December 2nd, 2010
3:35 pm
I can think of an even worse contract: The AJC actually PAYING Jeff Schultz to write!
chem
December 2nd, 2010
3:41 pm
Imagine what it’ll be like 6 years from now when he’s 35! The hawks will begin their decline by next year and one man’s salary will be the culprit.
GStateBen
December 2nd, 2010
3:48 pm
Joe’s contract cripples the Hawks? What are you smoking?
The Hawks have enough payroll to sign both draft picks in 2011 and at least one other player. 2011 Free Agents on this team are Jamal Crawford (who will not be retained), Mo Evans (who made $2.5 million and will not likely be resigned for anything more than that if at all) and the collection of Jason Collins, Etan Thomas and Josh Powell.
I reiterate for the 100th time. The Hawks are in tremendous financial health for 2011 and beyond, the salary structure will be altered in favor of the owners in this next round of negoitations and the Hawks will have plenty of room and roster exemptions to use.
Go take a look at the Heat and Celtics contracts for 2011-12. You’ll feel a whole lot better about what the Hawks have going on.
SWAT Native
December 2nd, 2010
3:59 pm
Once again, if the Hawks had not signed Joe Johnson to his $120MM deal, they could not have spent it on other players dur to salary cap requirements.
I think Joe being out is a good test for the Hawks. We’ll get to see how the other players respond and what would have happened if Joe had left. I wouldn’t read too much into one game; lets see how they do over the next few weeks (like Saturday night in Miami).
Ted Striker
December 2nd, 2010
4:00 pm
Interesting conundrum. Here’s why I say that. The Hawks are better with JJ — he’s their most talented player at this time. However being forced to play without him could speed the development and expand the game of other players.
As long as the Hawks still make the playoffs — did anyone here think they were going to win the divison? — then might not this actually work to their benefit?
p.s. Am I the only one who wishes that NBA contracts were more like NFL contracts?
SWAT Native
December 2nd, 2010
4:03 pm
…by the way, Mark, the Mike Hampton comparison is not fair. Joe’s played her six years, and he’s missed like 30-40 games at best. Hampton missed the better part of three seasons. The only thing they have in common is a big contract, and even Hampton’s contract was heavily subsidized by the Rockies for most of the time he was here.
Herschel Talker
December 2nd, 2010
4:15 pm
MB:
What if the indispensable Mark Bradley isn’t so indispensable?
HT
Mr. Obvious
December 2nd, 2010
4:30 pm
Joe Johnson is to the Atlanta Hawks what Ilya Kovalchuk is to the New Jersey Devils.
don
December 2nd, 2010
4:37 pm
he;s not even worth 10 million. it was stupid to sign him. he’s a selfish overrated piece of junk who can;t make anything with the game on the line. i say trade the piece when he returns.
Wow Ted
December 2nd, 2010
4:38 pm
The same words said today on 680 at noon. You must listen well.
Double Zero Eight
December 2nd, 2010
4:41 pm
There is no such thing as indispensable.
Not a NBA fan (until playoffs maybe)
December 2nd, 2010
4:50 pm
I figured out an easy way not to worry about Joe’s overpayment.
Don’t buy a ticket and let others foot the bill.
Cheers.
Robert Barron
December 2nd, 2010
4:53 pm
Mark is indispensable.
We all love to hate him.
Especially since his pay is a little less than Joe’s
Sarah Palin
December 2nd, 2010
4:53 pm
I would comment but Bradley works for the ajc which is part of the liberal media and I only talk to unbiased guys like Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck.
Robert Barron
December 2nd, 2010
5:06 pm
To get off topic, Alexa Joel, Billy’s daughter is now a grown woman in the pics AJC provides on “The Black Swan”.
Just great.
That’s means I’m approaching 100.
dilla
December 2nd, 2010
5:10 pm
Joe is not worth it, we winning and all Joe is contributing is 17points. There are atleast 40 other players that can be subsitutted for Joe and we can still win. I think we should trade Joe for an active scoring center. I believe the hawks are deep enough to make up for his scoring and we’ll get more out of Al.
Ted M
December 2nd, 2010
5:13 pm
I believe it was 123.7 mil.
ProfFish
December 2nd, 2010
5:17 pm
The first game without Joe wasn’t a good one for Josh Smith. I was at the game and his lack of energy and intelligence was stunning. He made two quick fouls by lazily swinging his arms in the first half, and in the second half had four turnovers in two minutes. How’s that for leadership?
AJC writers seem obsessed with knocking JJ’s quiet leadership. He may be quiet, but he’s also this team’s leader and go to guy. What if his absence brings to light the immaturity of Josh, Marvin, and Al? That would be the disaster.
Ted M
December 2nd, 2010
5:25 pm
I was encourage at the beginning of the season. We were winning in spite of JJ’s slump. Josh Smith was playing better then even even Marvin was playing well. Horford can’t seem to miss a jumper and Powell was a good addition.
Nevertheless the Hawks still have not beaten a viable team yet. Not signing JJ would have been a short term PR hit… we may be saddled with a long term ball and chain. Let’s hope not it was only a couple of weeks of crappy Joe.
Phil Lunney
December 2nd, 2010
5:37 pm
Let me directly answer your question. If the Hawks take the next few weeks to really work this motion offense and we begin to see the Jeff Teague that we saw last night, then we might see the speed and excitement we can expect from a young line up that plays 10 players a night. Then Joe returns and gets into the flow and we can really click. If we answer your second question, which is he doesn’t fit in, I am guessing there will be a play-off bound team that could use a #2 scorer. But, the real benefit is that last year’s offense was “based on Joe”, now that he is out, they a “free” to change.
Westurd
December 2nd, 2010
5:40 pm
Injury or not, Joe’s contract is crippling. Nuff Said
CajunStorm
December 2nd, 2010
5:51 pm
As much as I would LOVE to poo poo on JJ I really can’t. Out 4-6 weeks because of surgery on his SHOOTING ELBOW is significant an injury to have his point average drop 4 points. This offense is solid if you all have not been watching and if JJ comes back 100% and hits those WIDE OPEN shots he has been missing he will average more than his career totals which will open up te offense even MORE. Let’s pray that Marvin finds his 15-17 points a game potetial and JC1 finds a grrove with more playing time. Hell, at the end of the day we’re still a competent Big (Back up) and a consistent Marvin away from being a very competitive team. Come on Joe…..we need ya!!
CajunStorm
December 2nd, 2010
5:57 pm
Also…everyone that keeps talking aboutwe should have spent the money on a legit center….PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? That player and his abilities are NOT available to us!!! In todays league you either get lucky and draft a center that becomes solid are you Thank your Lucky starts we have a suitable but admittedly undersized ALL STAR in AL HORFORD!!
Teams that have “legit” centers have drafted them and are holding on to them no matter what!! Didn’t we just extend Al?
DonH
December 2nd, 2010
6:04 pm
Mr. Phil….Huh? You call Bibby a “has been”? Don’t be a pinhead…did you see his three pointers near the end of game last night against Grizzlies including the last one that iced the win!
Veteran Fan
December 2nd, 2010
6:07 pm
The really bad thing about all of this is that now the Knicks may not give us a first round draft pick when we do the three team trade sending Josh to Denver and Joe to NY for their first round picks and Carmelo goes to NY and we resign Jamal. I just hope that the Gearons continue to love JJ because by the end of January they may be the only ones left in Philips watching him underachieve and Josh refuse to box opponents off the boards and laughing about it! I feel bad for Coach Drew as he is stuck with “The Core”!
Time
December 2nd, 2010
6:19 pm
Thank god people like Veteran fan here are not GM of the Hawks. Are we really supposed to just give Josh away to Denver so the Knicks can get Melo? And we get a couple picks for it??? Dude, I got a money fantasy league I play in that needs a new schmuck, err, I mean owner, I want Veteran Fan…lol
Josh isn’t going anywhere, no matter how much you non-fans want to have him traded. He’s developed a dependable little jump shot in the offseason, and along with Horford, will keep the ship afloat while JJ is mending.
marcus
December 2nd, 2010
6:25 pm
seriously, did you ever play anything? should i know you as the answer to a remote trivia question? don’t pay this one, this one got paid, this guy can’t coach, this one got paid too much! geez! who are you? where is the criticism for over paying and resigning all those stiffs that the braves had? oh i get it, they were of the same fabric as yourself. you rode cam newton like a mule. its clowns like you who make your living “writing” about athletes like him. you cover the sports scene, you know full well there is no amateur sports in america. kids get perks all the time, from clothing, shoes, watches, you name it. grow the f up.. do you pay for the trips, tickets, lodging you get to cover these amateurs. oh i guess you “think” you deserve the perks that come along with your job. if i had to pay for your views and commentaries, you’d be in a soup line in atlanta. i love the ajc.com, i get to read your crap and respond and feel good that i’m not buying this rag of a sports column. what eats you up about the johnson’s and newton’s, is it their newfound and eventual wealth or something we could only find in Psychology Today…
RealSquawk
December 2nd, 2010
6:32 pm
VeteranFan??? You must work for New York or something.
Joe’s contract is a bad contract.
I hope Joe’s elbow does not equal T’MAC’s back.
And this month or two without Joe are crucial because if they can thrive without him then we really don’t need him. And if we don’t need him. Then he officially becomes are most tradeable asset.
And now come playoff time, if we make it to the playoffs; when Joe underperforms (if he does) you can’t say it is because he is tired, my fellow Joe Lovers. So start working on those excuses now.
KevinM
December 2nd, 2010
6:36 pm
GStateBen,
Face the facts: Joe accounts for +25% of future Hawks’ cap numbers going forward. Yes, he hurts the overall salary structure of the team.
Does he give us 25% of benefits? Don’t think so.
A quick salary glance:
Boston in ‘11 10 players at 78M
Miami in ‘11 12 players at 65M – Miami is in fine shape.
Atlanta in ‘11 8 players committed to 63M and no Jamal Crawford.
Now what above makes the Hawks look better financially? I don’t see it because they aren’t even getting past the 2nd round. Miami and Boston are expected to do both…they are both competing for the trophy. Atlanta is becoming the Utah of the East quickly….their ceiling has been reached IMO.
The only reason I care about salaries is because we were told we are going to be stuck at or below the cap….sounds like we have a lot to look forward to here in Atlanta…..the spending is over!
We are who we think we are!
heartofdarkness
December 2nd, 2010
6:41 pm
To play winning basketball, this team will have to incorporate the strengths of all of the players on the roster and work together to compensate for individual shortcomings. This would seem to be the exact strategy of the coaching staff at the beginning of the season. While there are no guarantees that this challenge will be met by the Hawks, Johnson’s injury should push the team to maximize its collaborative efforts. If the team does become convinced they can be successful by being more precise in executing offensive and defensive assignments, Johnson’s talents would be well suited to making the team even more potent on both ends.
KevinM
December 2nd, 2010
6:42 pm
To be fair to the entire organization, Joe’s numbers should not have exceeded 20% of the salary limits of this team. Therefore, Joe should be looking at numbers in the 14M range for the length of the contract.
But this ownership group decides to give raises for zero playoff improvements the past 2 years.
Joe gets an extra $53M because we were afraid we were going to lose our superstar…sob, sob….
I won’t even get into the Marvin/Zaza numbers…..11M between them, really?
Oh, the players you can get with an extra $50M.
I would have been content to go with JC1 and JC2 to get us bounced in the 2nd round.
jfreak13713
December 2nd, 2010
6:50 pm
To suggest the team will be better without JJ is crazy! I’m not a huge fan of JJ but he is a good player and no matter if its 17 points per game or 20 those points will be missed. With that said the Hawks look a little lost out there! Probably a factor of not being comfortable in the new system but Drew is really the one on the line here!
Regardless of JJ’s return and how the team will play without him I think most people believe this Hawks team is not built for a playoff run. The rost might be a good season roster but without some size and or a solid lead at PG they will get bounced quickly in the playoffs.
Jumbo Jimbo
December 2nd, 2010
6:56 pm
Regardless of what Johnson does or does not do, the Hawks
will not win 53 regular season games as they did last year. Unless they start beating some of the good teams, I believe they will win 45 games at most and get a 5 or 6 seed at best in the playoffs.
cheshire
December 2nd, 2010
7:02 pm
I can’t believe i’m going to say this, but i actually have some pity for ASG when it comes to the Joe Johnson situation. They were kind of screwed either way. Sign him and you’ve just dramatically overpaid, but don’t sign him and you’ve lost your best player. So I don’t want to sound apathetic to the fact they were in a tough situation.
The problem though is that signing Joe Johnson locks you into long term mediocrity – you don’t have the pieces around him right now to make a championship team, and you can’t sign anyone because he’s taking all the $. And mediocre is the WORST thing you can be in the NBA. Bad teams have the hope of lottery picks, great teams have the hope of a championship. Mediocre teams have nothing, and that’s where Joe Johnson is taking us. Would some in the fanbase have been mad if we hadn’t signed him? Sure, but what are those people going to think when we’re the perennial 5th seed every year in the playoffs whose best years involve getting to the 2nd round and swept?
Honestly the person who drives me the craziest in all this is Joe himself. It’s hard to fault someone for getting as much $$ as they can, but he definitely used the situation to his benefit and screwed over the entire fanbase in the process. As a Hawks fan, i’m pretty much guaranteed not to see a championship in this town for at least 7 years now, and all so Joe can get his $$. Joe could have taken less $$ like Lebron and Bosh did to help build a great team, but he didn’t. Is that unfair criticism? Maybe, but if you’re going to demand to be paid like a #1 guy, then you have to play like a #1 guy.
And what’s going to be really interesting is to watch the next few years and see how Joe handles the mounting criticism he’s going to receive. He wants to get paid like a #1, but he won’t play like a #1, and he can’t handle criticism… that’s just a bad combination waiting to explode.
Soccer is for Communists
December 2nd, 2010
7:17 pm
No World Cup in Atlanta!!
SORRY, LIBERALS!!!
Jamal Crawford
December 2nd, 2010
7:19 pm
Uh…about that extension?
Kapoonka
December 2nd, 2010
7:22 pm
Jamal, you took the words right from my finger tips. Can’t believe they don’t want to sign you. Stupid is as stupid does. What would the Hawks record have been without you last year? Nuff said….
Jay
December 2nd, 2010
7:50 pm
The JJ contract is going to kill the Hawks if they dont unload it. He’s unpopular, unathletic, and now he’s damaged goods. We know he’s played a ton of minutes, so what are the odds that this is his last injury?
It is the worst deal in the NBA since the Rashard Lewis deal.
DaChef
December 2nd, 2010
7:53 pm
What the Hawks should do now is go and sign Damien Wilkins as a replacement while Joe is gone and perhaps for the remainder of season…Try and pry Earl Clark from Phoenix and cut Etan Thomas and keep it moving..I think the team will start to gel better with little stagnation and guys will really be held accountable now…just a thought while i’m cooking in da kitchen…
blazerdawg
December 2nd, 2010
8:02 pm
Cleveland is pathetic.
The World Is Insane
December 2nd, 2010
8:34 pm
$120M for a human to dribble a ball and put it in a hoop. Who cares? Talk about management hubris!!!
Pro-sports and the people who support it are freaking crazy.
Count me out.
Publix
December 2nd, 2010
9:41 pm
If we can do well without JJ, then I would suggest to trade him 5 weeks into his injury. My proposed trade at this point of time would be:
JJ and Teague to Rockets for Lowery and Battier.
Then resign Crawford and give JC2 extra minutes.
We would look like this:
PG- Lowery/Bibby
SG- Crawford/Crawford/Evans
SF- Battier/Williams
PF- Smith/Powell/Thomas
C – Horford/Zaza/Collins
Both starting lineup and our second are good at that point and we will winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Publix
December 2nd, 2010
9:43 pm
rockets would not look bad
Brooks
JJ
Martin
Scola
Yao
They look pretty good on paper and maybe would go for it
dilla
December 2nd, 2010
10:01 pm
doesn’t help when we play Orlando, LA, or Boston. The Hawks are still too small
Ex-chimp
December 2nd, 2010
10:03 pm
Giants left-hander Barry Zito signed a seven-year, $126 million contract before the 2007 season. Since then he’s gone 40-57 — never finishing a season above .500 — and was left off the postseason roster this year. In the Giants’ defense, Zito was a three-time all-star and a Cy Young winner when he moved from Oakland to San Francisco Bay’s NL team.
The Hawks, on the other hand, don’t have the Giants’ excuse , as they — and their fans — had already seen exactly how far Joe Johnson could take them (second-round exit). Why give that kind of mega-star money to a player whose ceiling is All-NBA third team? Only one shooting guard in the NBA is worth the money Johnson is getting, and the Lakers have that player under contract through the 2014 season.
Please, Mark, admit that the ASG completely blew it with this deal.
James
December 2nd, 2010
10:04 pm
Joe Johnson’s contract will go done as one of the worst for a team in NBA history. Two years from now when the Hawks need to unload him there will be no takers.No other teams were beating down his door to sign him over the summer.I think and hope that the team florishes during his absence which will present a problem when he returns.I know that the Hawks were over a barrel with his situation but Joe is not amoung the top 15 players is the NBA and I honestly dont think he’s the best player on the his own team yet his base salary is higher than Lebron James’. There’s just something wrong with that equation…
NERDS!!! 42-34!!!
December 2nd, 2010
10:08 pm
NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!! NERDS!!! 42-34!!!
James
December 2nd, 2010
10:08 pm
The Hawks organization is a joke.
bgdawg
December 2nd, 2010
10:13 pm
what do you guys think of the hawjs maybe drafting travis leslie?? explosive, quick, great rebounder, basically a josh smith at the 2 his mid to outside would need some development tho.
bgdawg
December 2nd, 2010
10:13 pm
hawks*
PMC
December 2nd, 2010
10:33 pm
In all seriousness though, no one else on the team can score like Joe night in and night out at least in the regular season.
It’s really not Joe’s fault that Marvin has been a huge bust for the #2 pick in the draft. Franchises only get so many chances to get those picks right.
Billy totally ignoring several all star point guards in a guard driven league in favor of forwards is what really doomed this team to mediocrity not Joe’s contract.
There aren’t any big men that are available that would fit their needs inside. Josh has to be consistent. Marvin needs to grow up be assertive and get the 24 pts a night he’s capable of
PMC
December 2nd, 2010
10:34 pm
The Hawks brass just has to hope that doing the same thing over and over now will yield different results.
The real problem was listening to Billy when Chris Paul and Deron Williams could have been had.
dstdeelite
December 2nd, 2010
11:31 pm
Another uplifting write up about my Atlanta Hawks. SMH
Greg
December 3rd, 2010
12:59 am
Nobody is going to take JJ off the Hawks hands as part of a trade unless the Hawks give them a large chunk of money to help pay his ridiculous contract. As Bradley said, JJ showed his true colors when the going got tough in the playoffs last year. He acts like that toward the fans and they still give the guy that kind of contract? A guy making that kind of money should be someone who is capable to leading his team to a championship. Problem is Joe would be 2nd or 3rd fiddle for any legit NBA championship contender, he doesn’t exhibit many leadership qualities and he doesn’t have the type of game that’s going to attract the casual local fan to Hawks games. So, what exactly are the Hawks getting for that money? I was saying all of that before he started this season so poorly.
TheAntiMe
December 3rd, 2010
3:51 am
I do believe, Mark, that it’s quite a stretch to compare the seldom, if ever, injured Joe Johnson to the human disabled list known as Mike Hampton. While I do realize that you are bending way over backwards to try and make a point, to imply that because Joe Johnson’s scoring average has slightly dropped after 6 weeks of play and that because he is currently injured, that he has now become the next Mike Hampton is nothing less than asinine. Joe Johnson is looking at six weeks of downtime, tops. Not six years ala Mike Hampton.
Ryder
December 3rd, 2010
11:25 am
I smell Ewing Theory. Remember that when the Hawks brought in Johnson his role was to be the veteran presence this team didn’t have at the time. He’s not a leader simply because he scores the most points.
This is the time for Al Horford to take the reigns of this team and become the leader this team sorely needs. JJ is a great socrer and an All-Star player but is a second banana who is best when he’s playing that role. Horford and Bibby should be the captains of this team while the other guys fill thei roles.
I think that Atlanta will even begin to finally beat a team with a winning record this month with JJ out. These players will step it up until JJ returns.
Luke
December 3rd, 2010
1:32 pm
Mark, I usually enjoy your posts on the Falcons and Braves, but I’d leave the Hawks to MC and others. Too many what ifs instead of reporting what is. Johnson is physically durable even if he is horrifically overpaid, so I don’t see the Mike Hampton comparisons in the least. Let’s do some good ol’ stat tracking and find out how the Hawks have played without JJ.
niremetal
December 3rd, 2010
6:58 pm
What if Mark Bradley isn’t as smart as he thinks he is?
Fact: Mark Bradley writes more about the Braves’ offseason than about the NBA regular season.
Fact: Whenever Mark Bradley lifts his pen to write something about the Hawks, it consists of some variation of “Blah blah Joe Johnson sucks. Blah blah this is Josh Smith’s team. Blah blah [some suggestion for a trade or free agent signing that shows zero understanding of the salary cap rules]. Blah blah here are some simple box score stats that support what I have to say.”
Fact: Even when he does bother to write about basketball, Mark Bradley’s analyses are never supported by anything more than simple box score stats and passing observations based on the Hawks’ most recent nationally televised games.
Conclusion 1: Other than nationally televised games, all Mark Bradley knows about NBA basketball is what he sees in the box score.
Conclusion 2: He should stop embarrassing himself and leave the NBA writing to people who actually give enough of a damn to, you know, watch the games.
Give it up, Mark. You don’t know jack about NBA basketball. Stop embarrassing yourself. Stick to the sports you care about and pay attention to.
MitchC
December 3rd, 2010
9:35 pm
Mark, a couple of points here.
While Joe Johnson is certainly not.. Kobe Bryant.. neither is he chopped liver. He is a very important player to the Hawks, who does bring a lot of scoring. His loss will hurt. I dont think the Hawks will be “better” without him. Reality is.. they will probably play about 500 ball while he is out.
The bright spot for the Hawks is that this isn’t the type of team that relies on one “Super scoring guy” to make them go. (IE. Bryant, Jordan, Nique, when he was with us). This is more of a distribution scoring team. Bibby can score, Smith can score, Drew can try to mix and match people to pick up some of the slack.. but again..
Losing Johnson will sting. We are at 500 now. We will be lucky to be there on the day he returns.
LuckyStrike
December 4th, 2010
5:32 am
Joe Johnson is worth EVERY PENNYF HIS NEW CONTRACT. How qickly we all forget. Does anyone renember the Hawks-Boston series three years ago? In that series Joe Johnson proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he, (not Carmello or King LaBron) is hands-down, unequivacally the second-best closer in the game behind ONLY THE GREAT KOBE BRYANT. That is where Joe ranks among the pantheon of curreny nba stars. Ill go one further and say Joe is probably the third best closer in the history of the game behind only Michael Jordan and Kobe Bean Bryant, Who else could have lifted the Hawks to greatness in one playoff series.
PD
December 4th, 2010
12:08 pm
If they can Turn Joe into Carmelo or you should move him for nothing less. Zaza Marvin and Joe for Melo Andersen and Shedlen or somethign
Eric
December 4th, 2010
1:07 pm
Joe is a superstar, he’s not what I call a mega superstar (Kobe, Lebron, Wade). He’ll average good stats and get you to the playoffs, he just won’t take over like the mega superstars. Atlantans don’t understand this logic. You can still win a title with a superstar he’ll need help, but the mega superstars put the whole team on their backs and say come with me(Michael Jordan).
Lil Jay
December 4th, 2010
1:28 pm
Bradley, I see you get readers by being negative towards guys who achieve greatness. Without them your world and life would mean nothing as it does now. These guys work hard to achieve their level of success and a troll such as your self sit around and tear them down. A jock must have taken your girlfriend in High School and you have vowed to make them all pay with your pen, LOL. So, the next time I see you sniff jocks for interviews I will remind you that you are truly a worm. Take Care Jock Sniffer
West Coast Hawks Fan
December 4th, 2010
2:20 pm
Joe will be missed more so on the defensive end in my opinion. He has always been underrated as a defender. Don’t get me wrong his presence will be felt offensively especially when the shot clock is winding down in the half court set. I for one hope we are able to keep this team together because I believe we can win a title. I know I’m going to catch a lot of criticism with that statement but if the San Francisco Giants can win the World Series then why can’t the Hawks win the Davey O’Brien trophy? We need to resign Jamal and keep this team in tact and who knows there may be a ticker tape parade down Peachtree St. sooner than you think! Get well Joe and go Hawks!
Fundamentals
December 4th, 2010
3:27 pm
Bradley, you’re just a hater. Joe’s comments are so old, only you would bring them up for yet another attempt to stab the Hawks and Joe in the back.
True we don’t need Joe to win games all the time, but with him healthy it’ll only add to the strength of this team. How bout an article about Bibby playing so tough lately, how bout one on our frontcourt bringing it during the 5 game streak? How bout an article on Teague showing some life after getting forgotten for a bit by Drew.
Instead you just like to find sneaky ways to spit on the Hawks.
Fundamentals
December 4th, 2010
3:32 pm
Kevin M – if ASG did keep the extra 53 million do you think they would’ve improved this roster? They’ve passed on using their MLE, trade exception and aren’t currently at the cap. What makes you think they’d spend it elsewhere?
Also, did you notice our team salary is still a good 30 million less than the teams we’ll be trying to beat in the 2nd round. Joe’s contract isn’t the problem. It’s a lack of wanting to spend cash on the team by ASG.
We could trade Joe right now and several teams would take him before the sun set, bad contract and all.
Michael
December 4th, 2010
8:43 pm
He’s no Jon Koncak.
LuckyStrike
December 5th, 2010
8:30 am
Eric: you,re confused. jj is a megasuper star which is why he put the hawks on his back 3 years ago in the opening boston series and had the hawks even at 3-3. The Celtics went on to win game 7 by 40 points but the fact that the EVENTUAL WORLD CHAMPIONS were stuggling against mike woodsen,s LOWLY HAWKS sent shockwaves around the league and helped to launch a perennial 50-win Hawks POWERHOUSE we have today at Phillips Arena.
roger
December 5th, 2010
9:18 am
How much longer do we have to pay to watch Mr me Josh Smith ruin this team ? Joe Johnson makes everybody better Josh makes everybody worse! The happiest man in the world is Mike Woodson he doesnt have to coach the most selfish lazy player in the NBA!
June
December 5th, 2010
10:12 am
Joe makes no endorsement $$$ in Atlanta you guys are crazy…Dwayne Wade played Joe One on One in Olympic trials and got shut out…..If you Nu the insider info on B Ball you would know other then Kobe and Lebron there is no Better one on one player in B Ball…..My cousin is Mark Bryant asst coach on the Oklahoma City Thunder ….Look at Joe’s skill set…He gets fouled on every play but they let people bump him around because they know how good he is…Watch how many times he gets bumped with no call then watch how many times Dwayne Wade or Lebron ..They go to the Line way more then Joe…..Not to mention there is no Endorsement $$$ playing in Atlanta….It was the same for Dominique…Players like Ewing ,Barkley etc etc etc all made more $$$ Because the Market …..The Hawk ownership knows this that’s why they paid him the $$$$….7 Other teams would have paid him the same….FACT !!!!!!!
Mantis
December 5th, 2010
2:03 pm
You all need to stop living in the past about the 2008 Boston series. Joe Johnson didn’t Bush Boston to a near elimination by himself. Mike Bibby, Josh Childress, and Josh Smith also played huge roles in that series. Joe Johnson is not a superstar. While he is undeniably a skilled player, he is immature and unmotivated. The mere fact that this man had the audacity to demand a max contract in the biggest free agency in modern NBA history after being absent in round 2 of the 2010 playoffs is a testament to his immaturity. While D-Wade has his own maturity issues, he was wise enough to place getting more priority in getting good teammates than loading up on a ridiculous contract.
Jordan Crawford is an extremely talented guard that is rotting on the bench because he is not getting any playing time. Jordan could become our D-Wade. His Lebron dunk was the ultimate opportunity to get fans hyped about his arrival in Atlanta. Bringing Shaq to Atlanta, in addition to keeping Jamal and bringing out Jordan, would have been much better for this team than to pay Joe Johnson 120+ million dollars to break his elbow.
The “We had to keep Joe Johnson” line is sad, because it shows how Atlanta has become satisfied with mediocrity and has ceased to demand excellence. If you know that Joe Johnson can’t win a championship, then why keep him if that’s what you want? If you know that Mike Woodson’s coaching couldn’t win a championship, then why hire one of his lieutenants that is simply going to recycle the same losing strategies?
Atlanta has to stop settling for mediocrity. We keep making it to round 2 of the playoffs because round 2 is where mediocre teams get eliminated by good teams.
4-time All-Star
December 6th, 2010
5:36 am
without Joe the Hawks are the Cleveland Cavaliers – a team without a star – season ticket holders will not pony up for that – Joe is not a vocal leader but he’s one of the handful of shooting guards in the league that cannot be stopped one-on-one – whenever he is on the court he raises the bar for the rest of the team
kari
December 6th, 2010
10:21 am
Here are some key points.
1. The Hawks can trade Joe Johnson and his contract if it doesn’t work out.(Somehow, everyone has ignored this point)
2. Even if you have the money, there is NO GUARANTEE that you can get another player e.g. a Center. Go ask teams like Cleveland and Kings that are well below the cap but cannot find the talent to make the team better. So keeping the money from Joe does not mean that we can use it to get other players,
rusty
December 6th, 2010
4:24 pm
joe is way over rated,shows no heart ,holds on to the ball way to long ,is a streak shooter, selfish,tends to choke,doesnt go to the hoop quick or hard,over rated defensively ,doesnt defend tightly against the 3 point, people drive around him easily,he tends to poke at the ball & most of his assists come from him passing the ball out to the perimeter with time running out. he payed way to much for him. he doesnt draw the fans as he has no personality
Buddy Grizzard
December 7th, 2010
8:08 am
Somebody commented that Joe has a better defensive reputation than he deserves. This was shown in the Phoenix game when Steve Nash forced Al Horford to switch on something like 10 consecutive possessions in the fourth quarter. I said it before the contact was signed, and I still maintain the Hawks would have been better off trading Joe to New Jersey for draft picks. His absense makes Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford potential all stars. They should consider trading him for Gilbert Arenas, whose albatross contract expires several seasons sooner than Joe’s.
Ryan
December 8th, 2010
6:46 am
Is someone, a good bit earlier in this thread, really trying to imply the media ISN’T Hopelessly, in the tank, all in, liberal? Heh.
Must not watch it very carefully. Usually the only things missing are the cheerleader outfit and pompoms.
G.Rhone
December 8th, 2010
8:26 am
The Hawks, to me, are a MUCH better team without JJ or at the very least, better without him as a starter. He doesn’t have a “killer” instinct. Way too passive for the younger talent that’s out on the floor.
Howard
December 8th, 2010
8:55 am
Paying that amount of money cripples the team for years. If they are anywhere near as good without him as with him then it appears to have been a huge mistake. They could have signed Crawford to an extension and had lots left over in the next few years to get a free agent who can help.
Falcoholic
December 8th, 2010
8:41 pm
Did any of you even watch the Magic game? This team doesn’t score very well in a half court set. Only Horford and Josh have the size to post up in the lane and score. But, they dont handle the ball very well. I’m a huge fan of both Josh and Al. Great players. But, JJ can flat out score. He can get in the lane and use his size and athleticism to get buckets when they need him to. Hawks would have won by 20 that night. JJ just needs to stop holding the ball so much. I love the way the offense moves the ball without him but, they need a go to scorer and JJ is it! Face guys there are only a handful of people in the league that can do it like JJ can. Most of them play for the Heat now.