Live from Philips: The Hawks try to beat one of the NBA’s elite
From those halcyon days when the Hawks could handle a good team. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
If ever we needed a reminder that it’s not how you start but how you finish, the Hawks and the Celtics provided it. The Hawks finished third in the NBA East and were 4-0 against the Celtics, who wound up with the East’s No. 4 seed, in the 2009-2010 regular season.
Emphasis on “regular season.”
The Hawks got swept in Round 2 of the playoffs by an aggregate 101 points and were so mortified they dumped their coach and promoted his longtime assistant, which presumably made sense to somebody. The Celtics beat Cleveland in Round 2 and Orlando in Round 3 and reached the NBA finals. And now the Hawks, who were seen seven months ago as a rising power, seem in retreat, while Boston is doing as royalty always does — biding its time until the playoffs.
Seven months ago you’d much rather have been the Hawks than the Celtics, who were regarded as too old and too cranky. Now it’s hard to know what to make of the Hawks, who in the course of 13 games under new coach Larry Drew have managed to muddy the waters even more.
The Celtics arrived at Philips Arena to play the Hawks on Monday, and before the game a Boston writer asked Drew a question containing the E-word. And Drew flat-out admitted that his Hawks don’t deserve to be considered among the NBA’s elite.
“It’s a very difficult challenge,” Drew said. “In order to get to the next step, there has to be more of a sense of urgency with every team we play, not just in certain games.”
Then: “Good teams don’t take possessions off.”
Then: “We’re hoping to get to that level.”
Then: “I don’t know if you can teach it [elitism]. I think you just harp on it.”
Then: “If we were at that [elite] level, there were certainly a couple of ballgames we’d have won. We’d have toughed it out.”
Then: “You can see when the better teams reach a certain point in a game, they tighten it up. I don’t think we’re there yet.”
We pause to ask: Wasn’t the whole point of replacing Mike Woodson with his assistant of six seasons the feeling among ownership that the Hawks were only the right coach away from elite status? (Drew himself conceded Monday: “I think we have the personnel to get to that level.”) If so, why have these Hawks started worse under the kinder, gentler and presumably more innovative Drew than they did a year ago under Woodson?
The Hawks entered Monday’s game 8-5, having lost five of seven after a 6-0 start achieved against an array of opponents listed in Who’s Not Who. Of the Hawks’ eight victories, none had been over a team that holds a winning record. Worse, four of the Hawks’ five losses had come at home.
A year ago the Hawks were 11-2 after 13 games, and those 13 included road stops against the Lakers and the Celtics. Last season’s Hawks lost their first home game on Thanksgiving, their fourth on New Year’s Day. This time a year ago the Hawks appeared much closer to elite than they do today, which makes no sense when you consider that these Hawks are essentially those Hawks plus Jordan Crawford, Josh Powell and Etan Thomas. And Larry Drew.
In sum, the Hawks entered Monday’s game in dire need of a victory over somebody who can actually play. The schedule won’t always be so soft. Of the Hawks’ first six road games, only two had come against a team that made the playoffs last season, and one of those two was against Cleveland, which lost a free agent of some consequence over the summer. And Drew isn’t exactly working under a vote of the utmost confidence: He’s the NBA’s lowest-paid head coach and he’s working on a two-year contract.
Said Drew, speaking of his team’s uphill climb: “We’ll keep working at it. We’ll keep trying to get there.”
Good idea. Better hurry, though.
And with that, the floor is again open for questions, comments and reader submissions as to why Mike Woodson wasn’t so bad after all. I’ll be here all game, and I can already impart one snippet of information: Rajon Rondo, who destroys Mike Bibby, isn’t going to play. That’s the good news. The bad news: Rondo’s backup is Nate Robinson, who does likewise to Bibby. Pick thy point-guard poison.
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301 comments Add your comment
Tired of watching BAD Hawk TEAMS!!!!!
November 22nd, 2010
9:22 pm
Scrubbs!!!!
skydawg
November 22nd, 2010
9:22 pm
Screw the Hawks and the ASG. You get what you pay for in an overpaid Joe Johnson and low ball salary, clueless rookie head coach.
Real Talk
November 22nd, 2010
9:23 pm
@ AL why would anyone with some sense would want to come out and support a team when their overpaid SELF PROCLAMED superstar ovenly stated “I could care less of FANS show up or not” Now, how are you going to bite the hand that feeds you?
TROTTINGHOME
November 22nd, 2010
9:29 pm
when does spring training begin?
Chips
November 22nd, 2010
9:33 pm
You said this after the 3rd win mark
Maybe these aren’t the Same Old Hawks after all
That’s kool aid talk if I’ve ever seen it
SteveW
November 22nd, 2010
9:37 pm
Some observations:
JJ has something wrong with him. He needs to take a couple of weeks off, and get it worked out, whatever it is.
Guys who said we didn’t need Shaq or Dampier were stupid, ’nuff said.
The toll of a tough training camp has messed us up big time in the regular season.
LD is on the verge of this team self destructing.
Yes, we are 8-6, but we have played one of the easiest schedules in the League. Our 2 PF’s (Horford and Josh) are playing great, but nobody else much – except Bibby.
Teague is in trouble. Jamal looks terrible. Josh Powell is not as good as Joe Smith (told ya’). Marvin has looked pathetic with a rare exception or 2. ZaZa has fallen off the face of the earth.
The Hawks stink. Wish they didn’t. We made need look at last year as a high water mark, unload everybody but Josh and Al and start over. I never thought I would say that. But it’s that bad, not just tonight.
Nique's Revenge
November 22nd, 2010
9:37 pm
also @ Al because ATL fans are tired of throwing good money after bad. hence $119 million joe
Boston blows out Atlanta right from the start – USA Today « CATALOGJUNCTION.INFO
November 22nd, 2010
9:38 pm
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November 22nd, 2010
9:42 pm
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yodaddy
November 22nd, 2010
9:42 pm
This team is so disappointing
Tim
November 22nd, 2010
9:44 pm
Hawks are perennial losers. They stink and their owners stink. This franchise is going nowhere. That’s unfortunate because this city would be better off with an expansion team or just no damn NBA team at all.
Real Talk
November 22nd, 2010
9:51 pm
The Atlanta Dream play with MORE HEART, MORE PASSION, AND MORE PRIDE. when do their season start? I just might buy SEASON TICKETS.
bgdawg
November 22nd, 2010
9:53 pm
tired of these lame losers i knew this was gonna happen when our biggest signing of the offseason was… wait for it… josh powell. thats the guy we added. while everyone was big on moves we had to be the team who said ” lets pay JJ 119 mil so he can be our star!” how’d that work out? avg 18 ppg has an avg at best 3 point shot, dribbles for 10 sec and throws up a shot. tired of these losers.
GO FALCONS!!!
Tim
November 22nd, 2010
9:58 pm
The Hawks suck something that rhymes with “box”.
STRETCH
November 22nd, 2010
9:59 pm
I love all my Georgia sports teams, and i will continue to support them, but i will say this much…IM SO HAPPY THEY ARE GETTING THEIR AZZESSS BEAT DOWN!!
So now the owners and management cant sell pipe dreams anymore. They have been smokin that good stuff and sellin it to anybody that would listen.
So now they and management will be exposed all this season. Maybe now they can dismantle what they can and get some HEART on this team!
When is that last time a team, ANY team in the NBA has wone a championship without a center? Can someone answer that question for me please?
Marvin (Super Duck)Williams, Jerk Teague and MILK Bibby with Josh(imma shooter) Smith and Joe (White shoes) Johnson and Lionel Drew (from the Jeffersons) as the coach???? WHAT A JOKE RICK SUND AND COMPANY!
RB
November 22nd, 2010
10:06 pm
Most everyone knew that signing Joe to a max contract was a grave error. Everyone except Hawks management! As a result they hired a coach on the cheap. This is going to be a bad team in a strong division for quite a while. I won’t be attending games this season and will watch few on tv.
Anthony
November 22nd, 2010
10:14 pm
You would think they would have some pride in being a professional but it aint happening. And they want fans to watch this? Cheap owners think us fans are blind and crazy. They wouldn’t pay the money to get a quality coach who the players might respect and play hard for. they need to sell the team to Arthur Blank who has a real passion for winning and will spend the money to do so. Our owners now are just a bunch of local country club wannabe owners who think they can play with the big boys. They’re happy telling everybody they own a team and can enjoy the perks. REAL fans know the difference. Get us somebody who knows what to do!!! Then you’ll see fans come out and support them. What ya;ll think? Am I right fans?
Russ's Revenge
November 22nd, 2010
10:19 pm
Current makeup of this team just ain’t got what it takes.
In other words, they’re a second-tier team that sux against the big-boys.
juice sourcer
November 22nd, 2010
10:20 pm
this team is a joke and we all knew it. they got killed by orlando and then paid JJ 120 frigging million. i will say again for the 100th time..JJ and the hawks have no heart…why should anyone care and pay 100’s to go see these losers play…can someone please answer this question?
juice sourcer
November 22nd, 2010
10:25 pm
why anyone would show up to see these guys play blows my mind…i went to one game…corporate deal against the bucks and the hawks got blown out…simply did not show up…this is seriously pathetic….its a joke that these guys are making millions and they dont give a crap…again why do the fans even show up? can someone please answer my question
Real
November 22nd, 2010
10:26 pm
@ anthony that’s what I’ve been saying all along.The Hawks Franchise has been making dumb decisions ever since trading Nique in the mid 90’s,drafting Pau Gasol and trading him to Memphis, and the dumbest one of them all passing over chris paul & deron williams.Somebody needs to sell this franchise to someone that wants to win Atlanta is too big of a Market for this
roger
November 22nd, 2010
10:26 pm
Are we in a 3 point shooting competition, no defense allowed, no rebounding allowed except for al, do the players have any rolls ? This sad we will never win with mr me josh smith . He can not shoot pass ,play defense, box out. He can dunk and leave his man to block a shot out of bounds . Please trade him and MARVIN And Teague for Carmello before it is to late!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russ's Revenge
November 22nd, 2010
10:30 pm
Horford is the only Hawk who gives a damn, or is worth a damn.. The rest are simply losers.
JJ is the biggest loser of all.
Eric C.
November 22nd, 2010
10:34 pm
46-36 this year with first round sweep at hands of Boston
king
November 22nd, 2010
10:47 pm
This is the problem with the Hawks. First of all you overpay Joe Johnson on this new contract. Are you telling me that you are willing to pay Joe Johnson more money than Lebron James? Big mistake. 2nd, they are not willing to resign Jamal Crawford. Jamal Crawford is a good player and I think they should cut Mike Bibby who is playing with one leg. Third, there is no size at all. I like Holford, but I think he is really a power forward than center? Josh Smith has no good post moves at all. All he is a slasher. Marvin Williams, he is pure garbage. He is overpaid and overweight. He needs to go to the bench. Then you have the NBA Governor Micheal Gearon. He does not have a clue how to run a NBA franchise at all. That is why he needs to speak to the Greatest owner of all time which is Dr. Buss who has 10 blings as a owner. More than any owner in team sports. Dr. Buss is the Owner of the 2 time defending world champs LA Lakers. He is willing to spend the money to win the bling. He has a great coach in Phil Jackson and great players on his team. My thing is that if you want to be the best you have to not only learn from the best, but beat the best. Boston is the best team in the east and the Hawks show me that they are garbage against the Boston. Hawks are soft and have no heart whatsoever. That is why the fans does not support the team and that is why the ownership will never ever win a bling cuz they dont have any heart either. It shows.
dashizz357
November 22nd, 2010
11:01 pm
Wow, it was all good a couple weeks ago! What did you guys expect…….. Woodson wasn’t as bad as you thought! It’s not the coaches, Phil jackson couldn’t coach this team, no leadership or all-star!!! Woodson sitting somewhere right now laughing, I am too!
Real
November 22nd, 2010
11:06 pm
@ King enough said I totally agree
Bangladesh
November 22nd, 2010
11:12 pm
Why the hell did Teague play only 10 min. Did he get injured?
Next Year....
November 22nd, 2010
11:24 pm
Sell this freaking team to somebody (Arthur Blank) that gives a damn!!!!!! JJ, Marvin, Teague, and possibly Crawford for Carmelo!!!! We all need to protest!!!! Put a big azz billboard in the middle of Downtown protesting that this trade be done immediately!!!!!!!
Mark Bradley
November 22nd, 2010
11:25 pm
Here’s the game column, if you’re inclined. It’s not complimentary, I should warn.
Peter
November 22nd, 2010
11:38 pm
Hey Mark……How is that Big man and point we have ? Good thing we have Marvin…..after that nice contract the numbers have gone down, and he looks like a ghost.
JJ what a big deal…add that to the Konkak deal and we have the movie Ground Hog Day !
OK so we have a bunch of soft players, and zero floor leadership…….please don’t tell me it is Big Money Joe ?
Stuart
November 22nd, 2010
11:52 pm
Blown out of the game…in the first quarter…
The Truth
November 23rd, 2010
12:31 am
Mike Woodson wasn’t as bad as you thought! It’s not the coaches, Phil Jackson couldn’t coach this team, no leadership or all-star!!! Mike Woodson sitting somewhere right now laughing,
Mike
November 23rd, 2010
1:19 am
Joe Johnson cashed it in after he signed his fat contract. The Atlanta Spirit Group can go EFF themselves. I’m officially no longer a Hawks fan. Too much inept management for me to follow my native Atlanta Hawks. And to think, they hired a guy who has NEVER BEEN A HEAD COACH AT ANY LEVEL! I’VE HAD ENOUGH.
ASG
November 23rd, 2010
1:27 am
If you can’t get 8 people to agree on toppings for a pizza how do you expect them to agree on how to run an NBA franchise ? – they are bickering and fighting over control and money – the ASG’s experiment, i.e. the Hawks (Thrashers and Philips) , is exactly that….an experiment – they want to see how far they can go on the cheap – Joe is a great player but even the Heat are suffering from a lack of size – we have no size !!!!!
"E"
November 23rd, 2010
2:44 am
I know these players are not called PROS R U kidding me! COME ON MAN!!!! What a joke as a basketball team and they want people to pay money to come out and this that SH*T! please I rather spend my money at a strip club at least the women would play harder. lol
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:11 am
I wish the hawks only the best, but with this kind of performance I dont know if I want to follow them anymore… Lets go Falcons, at least theres one Atlanta team playing at a respectable level…
J.R.
November 23rd, 2010
3:11 am
It’s real simple. You paid Joe Johnson way too much money. You could’ve gave Jamal Crawford half that and got you a better quality center than the duds the Hawks picked up. Do you really think ZaZa is legitimate? He’s a starter in Europe but this is the NBA. Why does Marvin Williams start? He’s average at best and I can’t understand how he’s on the court as much as he is. He disappears and has to be the most overrated starter in the league. NO TRUE CENTER NO CHAMPIONSHIP!
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:14 am
If we had already reached mid season I would let fatigue carry excuses. But we are still (unfortunately) at the beginning…. is their objective to lose? how can there be zero energy and zero urgency????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GADAWG2
November 23rd, 2010
3:24 am
TRADE JAMAL CRAWFORD, I THINK HE COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE TEAM, SINCE HE HAS NOT GOT A CONTRACT EXTENSION. I QUESS IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY FOR THESE GUYS, TRADE ANYBODY ON THAT TEAM THAT IS NOT COMMITTED TO WINNING. I DON’T KNOW ABOUT DREW AS THE COACH, HE, TO ME, LACKS THE FIRE IN HIS COACHING, TO MAKE BELIEVERS OUT OF THESE PLAYERS. THE PLAYERS ACT TO ME THAT THEY COULD CARE LESS, ABOUT WINNING, JUST THERE TO DRAW A BIG CHECK. LACK THE PRIDE, IT IS GOING TO TAKE TO WIN.
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:24 am
I know the comparision to the lakers is not very fitting, but even after sooo many championship titles they still find the motivation and energy to keep winning, year after year, night after night… That said, shouldnt the hunger for a championship be sooo much bigger for the hawks??!??!?!?!!?!??! What are they playing for if its not to win an NBA title??
The incompetent management and players is a perfect recipe for disaster
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:38 am
hawks fan for so many years… this is beneath contempt
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:39 am
I know the comparision to the lakers is not very fitting, but even after sooo many championship titles they still find the motivation and energy to keep winning, year after year, night after night… That said, shouldnt the hunger for a championship be so much bigger for the hawks??!??!?!?!! What are they playing for if its not to win an NBA title??
The incompetent management and players is a perfect recipe for disaster
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
3:39 am
I know the comparision to the lakers is not very fitting, but even after sooo many championship titles they still find the motivation and energy to keep winning, year after year, night after night… That said, shouldnt the hunger for a championship be sooo much bigger for the hawks??!??!?!?!!?!??! What are they playing for if its not to win an NBA title??
The hawks management and players is a perfect recipe for disaster
Snowman
November 23rd, 2010
5:43 am
I can’t stop laughing (give me a second)…I really can’t!!!…You ALL should be ashamed of yourself especially that knucklehead Schultz (does he still work for the sports section?) and I have been a little surprised at you as well Mark (I thought you had come around on Woody and then took shots at him early in the season).
Mark, you said it right in your column, Woody was 11-2 at this point last year!!! The Hawks swept the Celtics last season and who could ever forget the 7 game series we had with the Celtics under coach Woodson 2 years ago!!! Look the fans, the writers, and apparently the owners wanted a change and Larry is who was hired to replace Woody, thus be careful what you ask for Atlanta fans because you just might get it (by the way, Woody is still available and lives in Atlanta, it might not be too late to go to his house and ask him to save the season before it is too late however bring an attractive offer with you and an apology, hell he has feelings too…smile).
The real truth is Atlanta had taken what Woody had done for granted for the last 5 or 6 years. Given the ownership, the absolute below average general managing (and I mean the bottom 2 or 3 GM’s in the league…the new Elgin Baylor or Wes Unseld of GM’s) that has gone on throughout Woodys tenure and the complete debacle of player acquisition from the draft to free agent signing (and I know for a fact, if Shaq was offered a 1 year, 5 Million deal, he would be the starting center for the Hawks this year!!!) it’s amazing what Woody had done. Hell, it had not been done previous and he owns the NBA record for improving the team record for 5 consecutive seasons!!!
In closing, the Hawks were 53-29 and finished third in the East ahead of Boston and swept them 4 times last season. In the playoffs, the other 3 teams in the east (Boston, Orlando and Cleveland) just had better personnel, period!!! I think we beat the Celtics in the playoffs however we had to play Orlando and Red Auerbach could not have coached the Hawks over the Magic (smile)!!! Go get coach Woodson before it is too late and Philly, Charlotte, Detroit or the Wizards have grabbed him up!!!
diamondd
November 23rd, 2010
5:47 am
hawks fan for so many years… THIS IS SAD
Jo
November 23rd, 2010
8:04 am
Hawjs are done, that is what is happpening here. They have not bought into the LD system for whatever reason.
KILJOY
November 23rd, 2010
10:34 am
No heart, no leaders = no playoff wins. Insanity = keeping the same group and expecting a different result = Billy Knight!
bbgenie
November 23rd, 2010
12:32 pm
Now we all know why the players were so so so so Happy when LD was named HC. They knew Lary wouldn’t put a Foot/Leg up their Ass when needed. They knew LD would not yell at them when they didn’t play Defense. If their is one thing Coach Woodson did well ” Focus on Stopping someone” Take Pride in Defending the Home court! Now we have a Heartless, I could give a _uck Defensive Mind Set bunch of High priced Punks. That’s why Shaq didn’t sign here. And the Hawks haven’t even taken a West Coast swing yet. WOW!!!!!! Re-Hire Woody!!!!!!
Peter
November 23rd, 2010
1:32 pm
Gee Mark doe we need a center yet in your imagination….How about a heart ?
Why is JJ worth more than say $12 million a year … He is a life time 17 points a game guy without any leadership qualities ?
How come he fades in the big games, like last night ?
Seems like after signing he could care less.