With Texas in the Series, we reconsider the Teixeira trade
Two of the five most important players on a big-league team are the shortstop and the closer. The Texas Rangers, gracing the World Series for the first time in their existence, have young All-Stars at both spots. They came courtesy of the Atlanta Braves.
July 31, 2007: The Braves sent five prospects to Texas for first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay. They won that night — Teixeira hadn’t yet arrived — to draw within 3 1/2 games of the Mets in the National League East. They would get no closer, finishing in third place, five games behind the division-winning Phillies.
July 29, 2008: Knowing Teixeira, who would become a free agent at season’s end, wouldn’t re-up with them, the Braves traded him to the Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman and minor-league pitcher Steve Marek. The Braves were in fourth place, 7 1/2 games out of first. Teixeira played 157 games as a Brave, hitting .295 with 134 RBIs and 37 homers. As a Brave, he spent one day — April 6, 2008 — in first place.
The first Teixeira trade has been characterized as the worst in Braves’ history, which it wasn’t — the Len Barker and J.D. Drew moves were worse — and has been credited with energizing the entire Rangers’ organization in a way one deal seldom does. And as Braves general manager Frank Wren settles back to watch the Fall Classic, does he think to himself: “Boy, we could’ve used Elvis Andrus [the All-Star shortstop] and Neftali Feliz [the All-Star closer]?”
Said Wren: “Whenever there are guys who were in your organization, you always wonder, ‘What if?’ But you have those same ‘what-if?’ thoughts before you make any trade.”
Wren did not consummate the first Teixeira trade. That was the last major transaction made by John Schuerholz, now the team president. But Wren was Schuerholz’s deputy in July 2007 — he would become GM in October of that year — and was, like most everyone around the Braves back then, in agreement that landing an All-Star first baseman who’d played at Georgia Tech was worth the cost.
Wren again: “We’ve just seen how precious getting into the postseason really is, and there’s always a thought that you’re willing to take a risk if there’s a chance of that happening.”
The first Teixeira trade did not bankrupt the Braves’ farm system. The organization has since turned out Tommy Hanson, who finished third in the 2009 rookie of the year voting, and Jason Heyward, who will probably win the 2010 award. And the two major prospects the Braves sent to Texas — Andrus and catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia — played positions that seemed well stocked.
The Braves had Brian McCann catching ahead of Saltalamacchia, and they had a young shortstop named Yunel Escobar who’d just made his major-league debut. “Actually,” Wren said, “we had both [Edgar] Renteria and Escobar ahead of Andrus.”
Literally and figuratively, Saltalamacchia was the biggest name among Braves’ prospect, and more than three years later his career still hasn’t taken wing. He was the Opening Day catcher for Texas this April and drove in the winning run with a walk-off single; it was his final RBI as a Ranger. He got hurt, developed problems throwing the ball back to the pitcher, languished in the minors and was traded to Boston on (that day again) July 31.
Neftali Feliz after closing out the Yankees. (AP photo)
As for the other parts of the package: Matt Harrison, a left-handed pitcher, was a member of the Rangers’ starting rotation the past three seasons but was demoted to the bullpen this summer and wasn’t on the Texas roster for either the Division Series or the ALCS; Beau Jones, another lefthander, hasn’t risen above Class AA.
So essentially the deal can be boiled down to Andrus and Feliz for 157 games’ worth of Teixeira. The Braves liked Andrus but thought Escobar would be the greater run-producer. Given that the Braves tired of Escobar’s moods and traded him to Toronto for the 33-year-old Alex Gonzalez in July … yes, it would have been nice to have had a younger option still in the chain.
And if Feliz had been a Brave, Wren mightn’t have spent $6.75 million on Billy Wagner, and perhaps that money could have been better spent buying another outfielder. But Wren notes: “At the time of the trade, Feliz was in Danville [meaning rookie ball].” Meaning: There was no guarantee he’d be this good.
The Braves saw an opening in July 2007 and made a move. It didn’t work, and they moved on. And for what it’s worth, the 2010 Braves did finish with a better record than did the Rangers.
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244 comments Add your comment
Blog comments are retarded
October 27th, 2010
12:41 pm
Every time I saw Andrus in the playoffs, I wanted to cry, knowing how much the Braves could have used him.
Blog comments are retarded
October 27th, 2010
12:41 pm
oh, first…sweet!
Wayne
October 27th, 2010
12:44 pm
Good story, hard to tell when a player is in A ball.
Techman
October 27th, 2010
12:44 pm
While I would love to have those two players, I had no issue with the trade at the time. It was a great move to try and get into the playoffs. I just didn’t work. I don’t remember this many people having an issue with the trade at the time. Hindsight is way too easy.
Maddux
October 27th, 2010
12:46 pm
You win some, you lose some.
A switch-hitting 1B with power is worth more than a light-hitting SS and closer. So, on paper, even now the trade looks decent.
Andrus has long stretches of bad hitting, and his speed would not have helped much on a Cox team … he does not run.
The Braves have a wealth of closers, and a decent enough shortstop.
It was not a horrible trade … we got something the Braves still NEED … power at 1B.
Mark Bradley
October 27th, 2010
12:47 pm
Delayed kudos, Blog comments.
"Da Real" Damon Evans
October 27th, 2010
12:47 pm
they only succeeded because they left the braves and the cess that surrounds this club, org, and city.
fredi is here
October 27th, 2010
12:49 pm
Out of 5 players, sent, one good/average (Andrus) and one above average (Feliz), the rest dust… not the worst deal ever… you had to try to win again with Tex.
Plus, I know everyone calls the JD Drew deal bad because of Adam Wainwright, but at the time, Drew was our Tex and we wouldn’t have won the division that year for sure.
Tana
October 27th, 2010
12:49 pm
I always think of this trade and wonder what things would be like had we kept them. Andrus was at a position where we had depth at the time, and Escobar was viewed as the next longterm option there. Feliz was in Danville and still a starter at the time, so there is no promise that the Braves would have even made the switch to him being a closer.
I think had we made the playoffs that year, no one would be thinking of this now.
Fly on the Wall
October 27th, 2010
12:51 pm
Hindsight…Wren did what he thought was right at the time…who cares…let’s move on. We need a OF…let’s get one.
Dawglasville
October 27th, 2010
12:53 pm
“They say hindsight’s 20/20 and I’m nearly going blind.”
Gonna Miss Bobby but like Fredi, That's For Darn Sure
October 27th, 2010
12:54 pm
I agree with Techman. I was excited by the trade when it happened. It seemed like a chance to push the team into the playoffs that year and perhaps set us up at 1st base with a superstar for a long time to come. Unlike the Len Barker trade when I first heard about that I remember thinking, “This is a joke, right?” It was worth a shot, didn’t work out, but that sometimes happens when you go out on a limb to try to make a bold deal.
NC Dawg
October 27th, 2010
12:56 pm
Len Barker makes me cringe.
bruce mac
October 27th, 2010
12:56 pm
As far as impacting the Braves, it really is only Elvis. Feliz is no better than the 2010 Wags and Kimbrel is a stud as well. But Elvis is a lead off, base stealing, high average, defensive gem All Star. Wow, would that make the Braves a much better team or what? I find myself trying to find something to pick with Elvis’ game and I cannot find anything. He is the real deal for sure.
Ted M
October 27th, 2010
12:56 pm
I was for the trade when it happened and MT played well for the Braves. The Braves coulda shoulda done better when he was here.
Those guys do look great now but the Braves needed to take the chance.
Ted M
October 27th, 2010
12:57 pm
Texas in 6…btw.
NC Dawg
October 27th, 2010
12:57 pm
I was a kid when the Len Barker trade happened…even then, I knew that was going to be a bad trade!
dtanner
October 27th, 2010
12:58 pm
this trade was made because schuerholz was such an egomaniac,always trying to show what a genius he thought he was,
UGABugKiller
October 27th, 2010
12:58 pm
Mark is right.
Trading a 100mph throwing pitcher for a right fielder with a cash register where his heart should be is the worst single trade in Braves history, and I would put it up there in the top-5 worst of all time, next to Ruth-for-Money and the Smoltz trade.
You NEVER trade a pitcher who throws 100mph. Ever. And ESPECIALLY not for JD Drew.
GSU Eagle 91
October 27th, 2010
12:59 pm
I am still hoping to see Chipper retire, with his lifetime .306 avg intact….( See Mickey Mantle’s stats as he stayed around 1 year too many to drop below .300 for his career)
I’m thinking Carl Crawford would take the 13 Million dollars CJ would make and look really good in left field….
and back to the playoffs we go…
Craig McMurtry
October 27th, 2010
1:00 pm
Elvis hit .265 with 35 RBI’s and 32 SB’s this season. That’s good but not stellar. Feliz had a 2.73 ERA with 40 saves. Those are great numbers for a closer. With these trade deadline deals, you win some and you lose some. I like a GM who isn’t afraid to pull the trigger to better the club, as long as you don’t deplete the farm system.
Speaking of winning some, how about the Doyle Alexander deal?
UGABugKiller
October 27th, 2010
1:00 pm
BTW… that pitcher? Adam Wainwright.
GTMustang
October 27th, 2010
1:01 pm
Good post Mark.
I am with the “you win some, you lose some” crowd on this one. Trades sounded good at the time as the guys were buried in depth and/or in the minors.
It’s easy to look back for these couch managers that frequent this blog and blame the Braves organization.
Like you said, I am sure Wren is thinking about that too, but it’s really luck of the draw.
JEB
October 27th, 2010
1:01 pm
What if we had found out that JS had the opportunity to have gotten Tex for Saltalamacchia and a few prospects – AND he did NOT pull the trigger??
Then we would have heard the belly aching and complaining that “the Braves could have gotten into the playoffs in 07 – but JS didn’t have the guts to pull the trigger!”
This is the way trades work them selves out – (like a box of chocolates…)
In the scope of history – we learn, we embrace what is, we move forward.
We will never know the long term results of the influence Billy Wagner had on these young guys in our bullpen and who will be in our bullpen for a few years to come. Experience (that if we had Feliz here) they would never have gotten and will be very valuable to the Braves in the future. This story is not finished yet!
bruce mac
October 27th, 2010
1:02 pm
You are right Bug Killer, so why does MB come on his blog and suggest we trade Kimbrel for a young St Louis outfielder who hits 270. Some people!!! Write an article that criticizes past trades the day after you propose what would be the dumbest trade in Braves history.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 27th, 2010
1:05 pm
And Bradley completely misses the point by trying to point out how some of those prospects have not panned out yet. The point is that those prospects had a ton of value at the time, and if they were going to be traded, the smart move would have been to trade them for a) players who addressed the team’s problem areas and b) players who were likely to stick around for more than a year.
Andy
October 27th, 2010
1:06 pm
There is no doubt that Feliz is a great pitcher and it certainly hurt letting him go but the Braves have several talented young pitchers in the system. As far as Andrus is concerned, I consider him to be overrated. During the regular season he hit .265 with an OPS of .643 with zero homers and 35 RBI. He did steal 32 bases and score 88 runs but I don’t consider this all that impressive considering that the Rangers were one of the best offensive teams in baseball. Even Prado with the Braves scored 100 runs hitting mostly leadoff despite missing several games with injuries. His numbers are actually worse than the year before so he showed no progress from his rookie season. This deal was basically Feliz for Tex and while Feliz will probably become a great pitcher, there are plenty in the Braves system to replace him.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 27th, 2010
1:06 pm
I guess the blog monster ate my first post… anyway, the reason why the Teixeira trade was terrible then and terrible now is because at the time, the Braves’ most pressing need was not offense. Their pitching was much worse in 2007 than their offense was. If they wanted to make a blockbuster trade and gut half the farm system to do so, they should have at least tried to acquire someone who would address the team’s biggest weakness.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 27th, 2010
1:07 pm
“You NEVER trade a pitcher who throws 100mph. Ever. And ESPECIALLY not for JD Drew.”
As much as I don’t like the JD Drew trade either, I feel compelled to point out that Jose Capellan also threw 100 mph.
Andy
October 27th, 2010
1:09 pm
By the way Mark, please let this be the last word on the Tex trade. It has been over three years. No offense, but please find something else to write about. I am tired of hearing about it.
Najeh Davenpoop
October 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
Oh, and by the way, neither the JD Drew trade nor the Tex trade are the worst in Braves recent history.
The worst trade the Braves have made in the last 20 years is the Jermaine Dye trade. At least in the Drew and Tex trades, even if the Braves gave up far too much for players who stuck around for far too short a period of time, they got quality players in return. Who the hell came back here in the Dye trade? The illustrious Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker. And that’s for a guy who has not only hit over 300 homers in his career, but would have cost very little to keep around for four or five years after that trade was consummated.
DK
October 27th, 2010
1:11 pm
Dave, It appears based on total numbers that over the years the braves organization has been much more successful in finding and developing pitching prospects than the developement of the other skill position through their farm system year in and year out. I know we have has some very good position players come up the ranks, the latest being Heyward and Freeman, yet seems like less positon players than pitchers. Is that a correct analogy? If so, is this due to the organizations focus more toward pitching or just because there are more skilled players at the pitching position to draft in the past few years?
5150 P.O.A.D
October 27th, 2010
1:12 pm
Can Texas let Nolan Ryan pitch 1 inning in the World Series? HAHAHA.
DK
October 27th, 2010
1:14 pm
Mark, sorry, the last question was for you. thanks,
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
1:17 pm
I didn’t think that the Braves would make it to the post-season, even with TexwewillShareya. But I can understand the trade.
The Len Barker trade was one of the worst trades in the history of the ATL Braves. The J.D. Drew trade was pretty bad also.
El Bravo
October 27th, 2010
1:19 pm
Up until this year not a single baseball person on his right mind would have taken Andrus over Yunel Escobar at short. As far as Felix is concerned our farm system is stocked with great arms, two of which are ready to take over the closer role next year. Had we traded a center field prospect for Texeira on the other hand would be a different story because we have been desperate for one of those since Andruw Jones was patrolling the outfield. The Texeira trade was a great move at the time but it didn’t work out as we wished. Simple as…
Nick n Nash
October 27th, 2010
1:21 pm
The JD Drew trade looks bad now, but at the time we had good pitching, and Drew actually had an All-star re-surgent season in 2004
Nick n Nash
October 27th, 2010
1:21 pm
hence why he got big bucks from the Dodgers in the off-season
Nick n Nash
October 27th, 2010
1:23 pm
As much as it hurts me to compliment the guy, Frankie Wren has done a sweet job of stocking up the Farm System after John S kinda traded most of the talent to Texas
BBrown
October 27th, 2010
1:24 pm
Hey, Mark. I was having a good day till you had to bring this trade up. Who knows, if I was the GM back then I’d probably have done it as well. However, with hindsight, we have a valuable lesson – If making such a trade, you better have some pretty darn good insider information about the guys you are trading. Otherwise, we are just throwing away the future for the hope of some present moment miracle (aka getting to first place w/ Teixeira)
Nick n Nash
October 27th, 2010
1:25 pm
And this off-season people from the Yankees POV can look at each other and say…why in the world did we trade for this bo-zo (Javier Vazquez)? Sure Melky stunk, but Dunn and Vizcaino are still Braves and have great up-side. The Yankees are only left with a 2nd round draft pick, and Boone Logan.
Something for all those Braves fans who wanted Frankies head last December.
GStateBen
October 27th, 2010
1:28 pm
The JD Drew was worse? Seriously? They gave up Adam Wainwright, Jason Marquis and Ray King. That’s basically a 1 for 1 deal.
Drew in Atlanta: .305, 31 HR, 93 RBI
You gave up 2 All-Stars in this trade. Pitching depth is never an issue in the Braves system and Wainwright was not going to move Smoltz or Hudson out of the way in 2006. Starting pitchers are a bigger gamble anyway.
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
1:30 pm
One of the trades that JS made, that I have never been able to understand, was the Jermaine Dye for Micheal Tucker deal.
What was the purpose of that trade?
Retired ML Scout
October 27th, 2010
1:31 pm
From the retrospect of judging a trade after several years and seeing how it works out everyone becomes a baseball “expert”. Bottom line, the Braves were trying to make the play-offs and packaged some unproven minor league players to get the best first basemen and one of the best run producers in baseball. Now, Andrus and Feliz have had a pretty good, but not spectacular year, and for all we know, this may be their career years. I don’t see where either player would have made a big impact for the Braves the last two years. I don’t know why Braves fans are critical of Texeira. He would have been happy to stay with the Braves but they didn’t want to pay the contract.
Hunter the Umpire
October 27th, 2010
1:36 pm
Wrong Dannon again,Buster will win the award,not Heyward!
bass stringerfish
October 27th, 2010
1:36 pm
Folks…a dinker here, a bloop there, a better fielding game and we are in the Series playing these same Rangers…I don;t think this trade “hurt” us…
And we are missing how much we have done the opposite to others..most recently the Yankers…Mike Dunn…Viscaino, etc..for (what’s his name? I’ve already forgotten…)The same scenario could be said about these players…could the Yankees have used Dunn in the playoffs? Probably. Will Viscaino prove to be the Number 1 prospect he is touted? Probably barring injury..and I have to say the ONLY thing I would have liked to see from Andrus is his speed…we need some of that. Gonzales will be fine until that SS kid we signed comes up.
And…yes for the love of the almighty PLEASE address the OF.
bass stringerfish
October 27th, 2010
1:37 pm
Well, sorry..assuming we beat the Phillies that is….
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
1:41 pm
@1:25………..”Sure Melky stunk” is an understatement. But I think that he must of have been a throw in, that the Yankee’s insisted that the Braves had to take, in the deal.
I guess that Wren didn’t comtemplate Cox giving Melky so many opportunities, to help lose all those games, that Bobby kept putting him into.
Skip C
October 27th, 2010
1:42 pm
Braves choked, Braves choked, Braves choked
Navigator
October 27th, 2010
1:42 pm
I love it when Frank Wren tries to explain away his inability to determine good talent in his own organization. What really happened when the Braves traded for Tex was they panicked, and they are paying for it now.
Tweets that mention With Texas in the Series, we reconsider the Teixeira trade | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
October 27th, 2010
1:43 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by TDC, BravesFanZone. BravesFanZone said: With Texas in the Series, we reconsider the Teixeira trade: They came courtesy of the Atlanta Braves. July 31, 200… http://bit.ly/91M3Qk [...]
Bubba
October 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
Phillies Suck. The whole state of Penn sux
what of it?
October 27th, 2010
1:44 pm
The Texiera trade was all part of the “win now” strategy, just like this year with the escobar trade. Here’s the problem: unless you’re a big money team (which the braves aren’t) you can’t trade away the farm to get one bat (who did little in the clutch). Also if your strategy is “win now,” you better win now and not limp in the backdoor of the playoffs.
Lady Ga (tramp) Ga
October 27th, 2010
1:45 pm
Does anyone watch MLB? less than 1/3 speak english
Javy
October 27th, 2010
1:46 pm
You speek a spanny?
delusion
October 27th, 2010
1:47 pm
I can honestly say I was against the trade for the simple fact that Tex’s agent was scott boros. What agent did the braves have a terrible relationship with? Scott boros. Plus Boros had turned down an 18 million per year offer from the Rangers. The deal had rent a player for a year and a few months written all over it. Just like the JD drew for Wainright deal with the cards. How did we fail to learn from that trade? It is true that there are no guarantees with minor league players but Elvis sure looked the part of future all star during his time with the Braves org. And now that Feliz is a stud it makes it that much more painful. I absolutely hate the rent a player for top prospect gamble. The Braves should build thru their farm system just like the rangers have done. Wren needs to be more patient now that Cox is gone and build with young players because that is the way to go if your team is an under 100 million payroll team. Just my two cents.
Skeezix
October 27th, 2010
1:50 pm
The Tex trade isn’t in my top 10 worse Braves trades ever. I agree the Len Barker trade was the worse. I also agree that the J.D. Drew trade was a real loser. I still remember how angry I was when they traded away Dye. With Tex, it only made sense to me if we were going to keep him. So I didn’t like the deal from that standpoint. To me, it isn’t J.S.’s worse deal by any means but, as things turned out, it surely wasn’t John’s at his best.
T-Bone
October 27th, 2010
1:51 pm
I’m probably the other way around from most here. I didn’t like the trade when it happened. I thought it was too expensive–5 for 2–and though in hindsight it was not as bad I had feared, I don’t think it was as good as people here are making it out to be. Here’s why: 4 of the 5 we traded are still with the Rangers, but we have nothing to show for it. Tex is gone, Mahay is gone, even Kotchman is gone (did we trade him or just release him?). So even though the numbers this year show that the trade doesn’t look all that bad, we don’t know what the future for Andrus, Feliz, and even Salty will look like (much less Harrison and Jones). IMO, this trade will look worse and worse if Andrus and Feliz continue to haev All-Star, or all-star-type, seasons. Andrus is the one we will miss the most.
KEV
October 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
LOL Navigator Wren wasn’t the GM when they traded for Teixeira.
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
1:52 pm
Delusion……….You are right, they were rent-a-player deals for minor league prospects.
balismith
October 27th, 2010
1:55 pm
so who is the next shortstop in the braves chain…the current one seems old and rusty to me
Ted M
October 27th, 2010
1:57 pm
Gonzo stinks and he’s a non-hustle guy just like Escobar.
KEV
October 27th, 2010
1:57 pm
T-Bone we traded Kotchman to the Red Sox for LaRoche last year.
KEV
October 27th, 2010
1:59 pm
Our notable shortstop prospects include Tyler Pastornicky, Matt Lipka and Edward Salcedo. Pastornicky is the only one ANYWHERE NEAR ready.
Supes
October 27th, 2010
2:01 pm
The problem is that Mark T. did not end up signing here with the Braves. If he had done that, this trade would be OK. Instead we got Casey Kotchman and a reliever…that’s all the Braves had to show for this trade long term…and how did that work out for us?
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
2:03 pm
JS had to of known that the Braves would never be able to resign Texshareya.
Skeezix
October 27th, 2010
2:04 pm
Glad baseball is back on tonight (I am starting to go into withdrawal). Go Giants and remember to thank Brian for the home field advantage.
charliesherman3
October 27th, 2010
2:12 pm
“And for what it’s worth, the 2010 Braves did finish with a better record than did the Rangers.” Now, they’re playing the team that not only put the Braves out of the playoffs, but beat the Braves’ most dominant rival. Baseball is like life, it’s just weird sometimes.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 27th, 2010
2:13 pm
Deals like the Teixeira trade aren’t made with the future in mind; they’re about right now. When a team has a shot at a pennant, they have to make an immediate choice. Will this deal give us a shot to get to the playoffs? A team never knows if it’s going to be in the same position again, anytime soon. What looks like a team with a good long term future this year, may be in disarray next year, due to injuries, off-years or other unknown circumstances. So when teams see a chance to go all the way, most times they go for it. If the deal works out and you go the World Series, you look like a genius. If you fall short of the playoffs, especially if some of the players you traded go on to big things, then you look like a dunce. That’s baseball.
Nick n Nash
October 27th, 2010
2:18 pm
The problem with the Tex trade is that, deals like that one only work when you have a good pitching staff. The 2007 braves pitching staff was from playoff caliber. It’s hard for one player to step up and take the entire team to the playoffs. That’s the main reason why this trade flopped, and in hindsight should never have happened. Although with the depth of the players, I can understand why JS pulled the trigger.
GT Alum
October 27th, 2010
2:43 pm
The main problem with the Teixeira trade is that you don’t trade that many prospects for a rental, unless you expect him to be the guy that pushes you from being a playoff team to a championship team. Anytime you send 5 quality prospects in a deal, you have to figure that enough of them are going to turn out to be good enough that fans will be wishing you still had them a few years down the road.
Even though JS publicly left the door open at the time, it seems like they never really had any intent to re-sign him. That means this trade was basically going to be based on the Braves’ playoff success with Tex as a member of the team. Since they didn’t even make the playoffs either year, yes, this trade is going to be ripped, and nothing anyone says is going to change that.
Oh, and I personally reserve the right to criticize this trade, because I thought at the time that was a lot to give up for him unless we were planning to re-sign him. Being a Tech alum, I was excited at the thought of having Tex as a Brave, but I was worried that it could end up about like it has, although I thought we’d at least make the playoffs.
hawesg
October 27th, 2010
2:54 pm
Something to consider when teams come calling for Teheran, Delgado and Vizcaino.
PTC DAWG
October 27th, 2010
2:58 pm
It is painfully obvious that this was one of the worst trades in Braves history.
Nolan Ryan
October 27th, 2010
2:58 pm
Dear Braves:
Thanks.
SUCKERS.
Sincerely yours,
Nolan Ryan
glorydays
October 27th, 2010
3:00 pm
I can’t help but think it was a JS 0ut the door let’s do what will look best for me now I can get us in the playoffs this year and let others worry about next year. I didn’t like the trade then. This trade will haunt us for the next 15 years, just like the JD Drew trade does now. Let’s not forget Neagle for Schmidt. He lucky with the McGriff trade and looked like a genius but boy have we ever paid for his attempts to do it again.
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:01 pm
Braves did not choke, and they lost,because wren didn’t make them good enough to go all the way.don’t forget we have that 18 or 19 year old cuban shortstop who is supose to be better than escobar.yes: we did,’t have to trade escobar or elvis andrus, but wren did. he has a way of trading good players away for crap, and getting nothing in return. then he leaves your farm system in terrible shape when he’s does go. wren do us a favor, and just leave….. Go!!! Braves!!!!
Roger
October 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
John Schuerholz was unquestionably the worst, and I mean worst, General Manager I have seen in baseball. Sure, every once in a while he got lucky. But … when I see former Braves farmhands stocking lineups of virtually every team in the major leagues, can there be any doubt?
Schuerholz was the beneficiary of an incredible scouting staff and farm system which he raped for ill advised, short-term “benefits”. And to think that the sportswriters, particularly the AJC boys, talk up Schuerholz for the Hall of Fame. Give me a break!
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
kev: wren was gm when he did the trade,because espn showed him on the phone doing it, and talking about it on t.v.Go!!! Braves!!!
Ramona
October 27th, 2010
3:04 pm
Rangers Manager Ron Washington may have a cocaine problem, but at least he isn’t at risk of being deported back to Cuba like the new skipper for the Braves.
Whopper Dawg
October 27th, 2010
3:07 pm
A very expensive 157 days. I didn’t like the tactic the JS adapted in his later years which was to trade prospects for the “missing piece” during the summer. The missing piece never did fit and we lost a lot of prospects.
Ron
October 27th, 2010
3:08 pm
Horrible and stupid trade even if these guys didn’t pan out as we didn’t accomplish anything with the trade. And that is what you look at.
Ted Striker
October 27th, 2010
3:08 pm
Two reasons I don’t knock the trade:
1) 2007 looked to be a make or break year. Simply put, it looked like 2007 was the team’s best bet at success, at least for 4+ years.
2) The team appeared to be a single key offensive player away from a successful post-season run. Maybe they were. Unfortunately, the guy who looked to be “the guy” wasn’t. Nothing a person can do about that. (Even Payton Manning threw an INT in the Super Bowl with the game on the line. Are you gonna second guess having him in the game?)
Those things said, I DO knock personnel decisions for ‘08-’10. It was my belief that after the failed experiment in ‘07, that the team should’ve been blown up with an eye to 3 years down the road. Maybe the Braves would’ve been a year or two behind the Rangers however they’d have been in a better position going into 2011 and 2012 than they are now.
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:10 pm
schuerholtz left the kansas city farm system in trouble, and when things got tight. he left, and came over here too. we should just keep our young talent, and if trade them, make sure you get somebody with great value in return,or don’t trade at all! Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:13 pm
maybe espn can give wren worst gm of the year award for the espy’s.
sg10
October 27th, 2010
3:15 pm
They key is, we were getting Taxeira for 1.5 years which is different than half year deal. Plus his salary wasn’t much at that time so Texas had to get something back in return. We had to give up some prospects at the positions we were well stocked up at that time. Nothing wrong with it. The deals like these make trading worthwhile for the teams. If there were no success stories for anyone then nobody would make a deal. I am happy that the deal worked out for the Rangers. We got good production from Taxeira although he didn’t too many clutch hits. I wish we had gotten better deal when we traded him to Angels.
observation
October 27th, 2010
3:15 pm
I find it interesting how everyone completely overrates Andrus as a player. He honestly is a slightly above average short stop. The only thing keeping him from being completely average is that he has speed and can steal some bases.
However, for this season, he hit .265 with 0 homeruns, 35 RBI’s, and scored 88 runs. All of those numbers are fairly underwhelming, especially the power numbers. The only area where you can say he excels offensively is base stealing, as he did steal 32 bases, which is a good number, but nothing that blows you away either.
All in all, Andrus has been a slightly above average major league short stop. He is nothing close to the start that some people have perceived him to be.
turkdawg
October 27th, 2010
3:16 pm
i can’ read all of these comments, so i apologize if this has been covered, but the photo is not andrus; it’s feliz. also the first line of your article is patently false. a closer is not one of the five most important players on a team. any closer. any team. ever. this proves you don’t understand baseball and discredits the rest of the column. whatever you think of the first tex deal, and i don’t think it’s good, but not as bad as some other people do, you’re missing the point. it wasn’t even the worst deal involving tex; the one where they dumped him for kotchman, who is a bust/bum and marek, a 26/27 year old reliever who has yet to see the bigs is horrible return. they panicked. why would tex have been worth less than he was the previous trade deadline? he wasn’t. hold your water and if you don’t get an offer you like, you offer arbitration and get your two draft picks and restock the system in an affordable manner. they’d have much better off with the picks. shame on the braves for a poor move, but shame on you for poor analysis and lazy writing. boo.
Heisenberg
October 27th, 2010
3:18 pm
I did not like acquiring Tex because I viewed him as someone who puts up big numbers, but not a difference maker. Had he been the kind of player that makes everyone else around him better, the Rangers would have had more success. Just like another over-hyped former Ranger now playing for the Yankees. Sure they won a WS but only as parts of the team – not the key missing ingredient. Look at Seattle. They got better after ARod left. Texas did not miss him either. Michael Young replaced him at short at the Rangers got better. Same goes with Tex. When a team looses a “Superstar” and they have the same or better record without him, is he really a superstar? Look at the Braves record with and without Tex. What difference did he make? Other than subtracting some prospects we could use today.
So I say not interested whenever a BIG NAME free agent or player near the end of his contract comes available. The ROI just is not there. Build a team with quality affordable hard working players over 1 or 2 overpaid superstars.
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:19 pm
bret butler didn’t hit for power either, but he delivered the goods in center field. you don’t have to have power just to play baseball. Go!!! Braves!!!
ward
October 27th, 2010
3:22 pm
well see you later i gotta go to work. Go!!!! Braves!!!!
Texas Frenchy
October 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
Very simple, if you knew you couldnt afford to try & keep him then why trade at all??? .300 avg., 37 bombs & 134 rbi in what amounts to 1 full season (157 games) oh what would the Bravos be willing to pay to have that at 1st base now??? Shoulda signed him to new extension before the trade was finalized, another bonehead trade by JS the genius!!!
Tired Of It
October 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
Everyone continues to try and put the blame on Melky, who by the way, had a better season than Mclouth, Diaz, Ankiel, or Conrad. Those players named did nothing this past season. Melky outplayed all 4 of them collectively. And Chipper has done nothing but steal money since his mvp season, at least nothing to justify his contract! ALSO, Texeira was not a great player here in Atlanta. His stats were decent for his 1 1/2 years service, but it doesn’t justify what the Braves gave up to get him, in this respect he was no better than Michael Tucker!. You guys sure have a funny way of deciding who should garner respect as a braves player
NCBravesFan
October 27th, 2010
4:04 pm
The problem I always saw with the Tex trade was not what the Braves gave up, but the mere fact that they needed a pitcher much more than they needed a hitter at that time. They traded some really nice prospects (obvious to all of us now) and didn’t address the core need of the franchise with the return.
For that reason, it probably would have been better not to have made the trade.
Robert Barron
October 27th, 2010
4:12 pm
Schuerholz should have been the one to have a problem with this trade. He knew Teixeira was a Boras’ client and after losing Wainwright, should not have wanted to take this kind of gamble as his last hoorah. Instead this will be known as his last boo-hiss.
Robert Barron
October 27th, 2010
4:16 pm
The Kotchman trade was also a bad trade.
Might as well have gotten our moneysworth on Teixieira.
I'm just sayin'
October 27th, 2010
4:17 pm
When you talk of bad moves the Braves have made, don’t ever forget BRETT BUTLER!!
The Grinch
October 27th, 2010
4:18 pm
Why wait until now to reconsider the trade for Tex? I thought it was a bum deal from the get-go.
The Grinch
October 27th, 2010
4:19 pm
Yes, remember the titans…
Lem (or lame) Barker
JD Drew
Tex
All bad.
Dawg Whisperer
October 27th, 2010
4:35 pm
I thought it was a bad deal from the beginning. I’m generally against trading away the team’s future for instant gratification that is only temporary. I think it was a lesson learned by the Braves organization.
Drummerdad
October 27th, 2010
4:50 pm
I think the Braves got the best year out of J.D. Drew of any of the teams he’s played for. I also think that a large part of that had to do with playing for Bobby and having to answer to Chipper when J.D. was inclined to bag because of this or that ailment. As for John Schuerholz’s trades, the trouble came with players that had Scott Boras as their agent. I don’t think JS and Boras saw eye to eye to say the least. Not sure when it started, but it seemed to be around Greg Maddux accepting arbitration when the Braves believed he wouldn’t. Then they had to trade Kevin Millwood to make room for Maddux.
I can’t agree with the earlier comment about JS being the worst GM in baseball history. I wonder what people inside baseball would say about a comment like that. whew…
gcs
October 27th, 2010
4:58 pm
I think Schuerholz was naively trying to recapture the magic they had with the Fred McGriff trade. Wren was just a yes-man back then. Do you think he is going to stand up and object with a promotion coming his way?
As for Tex, he had good stats but does anyone remember a single Braves game in which he had a big hit? He would hit a solo HR in a 8-1 game and then make the highlight reel. He NEVER came through for the Braves. I say good riddance.
I hope this is a wake-up call to Wren & company: NO MORE RENT-A-PLAYERS!
P.S. Re-sign Hinske!
.
Blue Fox
October 27th, 2010
4:59 pm
Braves should have placed Salty at first base instead of trading for an obvious “one year and done” Tex, would have solved both problems.
Jim
October 27th, 2010
5:08 pm
The trade SUCKED and never made any sense. Teixeira NEVER made a contribution to the Braves. He does not get BIG hits and wiffs in the clutch!!! Scheurholz is VERY overrated as a GM. Bobby Cox brought in the talent and he had Turner’s money and did VERY LITTLE with it
Born2Buzz
October 27th, 2010
5:08 pm
Oh god, do we have to revisit this thing. Worst…Trade….Ever.
Yes, worse than the Len Barker trade.
Rupert
October 27th, 2010
5:12 pm
never trade prospects. never ever ever. Right folks? geez.
David Granger
October 27th, 2010
5:12 pm
Don’t really know about the trade, Mark. But one thing I can’t help but remember:
You wrote a column right after we traded Jason Schmidt for Denny Neagle (didn’t Neagle beat us with a fine game the night before?)
The only reason the Reds were willing to get rid of Neagle was because…at the end of the season…they wouldn’t be able to pay him the fair market rate for a pitcher of his quality. And you wrote that, no matter how much we Braves fans liked getting him, it was terribly unfair and one of the biggest things wrong with baseball. And you were right. Now the shoe’s on the other foot, and we’re being run by a corporation that…though they try and field a competitive team…still keep a close watch on the bottom line.
It was fun being one of the few teams who could compete aggressively for top-line talent. But what goes around, etc.
Sloan
October 27th, 2010
5:17 pm
The NLDS was for rookie of the year. Buster Posey won it hands down over J-Hey.
Out From Left Field
October 27th, 2010
5:25 pm
I was listening to 680 this afternoon and they had a sports talk radio guy from Dallas on. He said he didn’t get the feeling that Cliff Lee wouldn’t base his decision on where he would play next year based on money. All I could think of was the Teixeira trade. Wasn’t that what we were all hoping then? He had gone to GT, liked Atlanta, liked playing for Bobby Cox, etc.? Made no difference, I bet the same is true for Lee.
I do agree that the Len Barker trade was probably the worse trade for the Braves.
Tomahawk
October 27th, 2010
5:32 pm
“So essentially the deal can be boiled down to Andrus and Feliz for 157 games’ worth of Teixeira.”
Ummmm there’s no way that’s accurate. All five prospects were trade bait, especially Salty at the time… and if i remember correctly Boston had a surplus of young pitching at the time and interest in Salty, so no the deal can’t be boiled down to just Andrus and Feliz, because there was also lost opportunity cost in regards to the rest of the prospects.
Mindriot
October 27th, 2010
5:41 pm
Nothing to reconsider. I hated the trade when it happened and I obviously hate it now. I hated the Yunel trade as well. But hey, I hope Wren enjoys watching Gonzalez hack away next year to the tune of a .280 OBP and not get to 20-30 balls that Yunel would have. At least he’ll tell some good jokes in the clubhouse.
Earl Williams, rookie of the year
October 27th, 2010
5:52 pm
Okay, enough already! Three years past and this year we started the climb back to division respectability. Fredi should only improve the club, if given the tools.
Forward! Move On! Get Over It! Let’s talk about spring!
Frumpy
October 27th, 2010
5:58 pm
Trades are always looked back at and disected. But at the time, we thought we were a good chance for the playoffs and needed another big bat. Texeria was the biggest bat out there and we landed him. Unfortunatly we didnt play that well and didnt make the playoffs. But the trade was the right idea.
As has been pointed out, Salty was always behind McCann, Andrus was behind both renteria and escobar. Feliz was a rookie ball pitcher.
If we didnt make the trade, people would have been complaining that we didnt try and get a big bat.
NEW CARS
October 27th, 2010
5:58 pm
I agree on the Jermaine Dye deal, but the other deal that always killed me was giving up Klesko and Bret Boone for a year of Reggie Sanders and quilvio veras. Klesko and Boone (although my understanding was that he wasn’t a great clubhouse guy) had 10 more good years and Sanders and Veras may have had one. I know Klesko wasn’t great in LF, but Big Cat left a couple of years after that and we have only had 1 first baseman better than Klesko in the last 10 years and he’s the one everyone complains about (TEX).
richham
October 27th, 2010
6:03 pm
Another case of the Braves allowing talent to sit wasted in the minor leagues. I mean it’s amazing that the Marlins can continue to be bottom dwellers in attendance and money spent, yet they always field a competitive team with the young talent they have.
It’s time the Braves used some of that talent to fill in some of the money gaps. Freeman could have played this year in the bigs, maybe a year early but so what. It would have saved them 2 million on Glaus as a patchwork first baseman and another 3 or 4 million having to trade for Lee. We definitely need a left fielder, but if your going to throw McClouth back out there, you should at least throw Shaefer back out there too and see if he can swim. That wrist injury really hurt him, but he did have some talent. It makes a whole lot more sense to go full tilt for a left fielder instead of continually adding patchwork old guys to stink it up.
At the very least you put money where it is desperately needed, let some of the young players play, and then you have a third option of buying a bat at the trade deadline. Wren made some nice moves last year, but he also made some stupid moves. The Braves don’t have the luxury anymore of missing on key pieces while paying them a ton of money. Let the kids play and earn their stripes for a change.
Paul in RDU
October 27th, 2010
6:24 pm
turkdawg -
A closer is not one of the 5 most important players on a baseball team??? Really??
The reason that the Yankees won all of those titles in the late 90’s and the Braves didn’t is that the Yankees had Mariano Riviera and the Braves had one closer after another.
Freddie G
October 27th, 2010
6:26 pm
Jermaine Dye for Keith Lockhart and Michael Tucker as well as David Justice and Marquis Grissom for Lofton and Embury were worse trades than this one, and was also made by JS.
I did not mind moving Salty and Andrus because of McCain and Escobar who were both young stars, but I hated the trade for Tex, because we were not going to resign him, and most of all the team we had in 2007 was not going to win anything even if they were selecting three Wildcard Teams.
The JD Drew trade was another terrible trade made by JS, I think his ego was bigger than the state of Georgia, and so he just wanted to be in the conversation and look smart. Sometimes it is good to keep what you have if the right trade is not there. An example of this is the trade by Wren this year, they fall in the same category, the team we had at the break was playing great and he destroyed what we had. I likened it to the trade of Dominique for Danny Manning while the Hawks were in 1st place, and it was never the same team afterwards, relinquishing the lead and bowing out in the first round of the playoffs, and Manning gone at the end of the season.
Dr. Phil
October 27th, 2010
6:29 pm
Wren may not be the worst GM in baseball history, but he is certainly among the worst. Glaus, McOut, and Ankeil exemplify Wren’s mentality.
Navigator
October 27th, 2010
6:53 pm
Pay attention now: Wren was the top assistance Schuerholz, and yes he was in the middle of all of the recent trades even before he took over. He even said he didn’t think the players were that good that was traded, so yes he admitted it was a mistake. Since he became GM the bad trades continue, especially Escobar (moods crap, he was tired of Cox).
champ
October 27th, 2010
6:53 pm
i dont care as long as i never see conrad playing infield in a braves uniform again,ever!
WeBurn
October 27th, 2010
6:54 pm
The point of the Dye trade was to strengthen the bench. Do you remember the 1996 World Series? At the time, it was considered that our bench had blown the series. I remember a camera shot of Terry Pendleton ( yup, THAT Terry Pendleton) trying to practice in the hallway and at a batting cage, and he ended up not getting a hit in the Series, iirc. Lockhart, at the time, was the best pinch-hitter in the game, and Tucker ended up starting a lot of games for us.
kirkinga
October 27th, 2010
7:44 pm
I agree with earlier comments that the David Justice and Marquis Grissom for Lofton and Embree, as well as the Jermaine Dye trade were worse than the JD Drew trade.
They also gave rise to the suspicion with a part of Braves Nation that the Braves organization didn’t care to deal with anything but docile minority players. Back then things like wearing caps backward and gangsta rap held much greater shock value than they do now. Justice was certainly appreciated more after he left than when he was here.
I think that we’re basically talking about a very few trades over nearly a 2 decade period is a good thing when weighed against the successes of the teams over that same period. Let’s face it, even the Len Barker trade doesn’t rise to the level of all time worse trades in baseball or sports.
reckingball
October 27th, 2010
7:48 pm
There are so many stupid comments on this blog.
JCH
October 27th, 2010
7:52 pm
MArk had 37 hrs his last season with Bravs… And What offense do we have now? NAda PAthetic, Anemic… MArk supplied more offense than we ever could have gotten from a Minor league Pitching Prospect
Howie
October 27th, 2010
8:07 pm
IF Braves would have kept Teixeira the trade would have been worth it but since they decided they could not “compete” for him, it was a bad move.
OldTimer
October 27th, 2010
8:10 pm
The Braves worse trade.
11-02-1974 Hank Aaron is traded by the Atlanta Braves to the Milwaukee Brewers for Minor League prospect Roger Alexander and Dave May.
Really?
Philco
October 27th, 2010
8:18 pm
This trade set the organization back 3 years. No one believed that 2007 team was just a Tex away from being a contender!! As unfortunate as it was to given away all that talent for a rent-a-player, then one year later to have given Tex away for a bag of balls!!!!! Had his talent eroded in a year?? Hell no!!! I would trade all of those continous Division Champ banners for a few legitmate World Series contenders. As much fun as it was to watch them win their division for 14 years in a row…think of how much more fun….and proud…it would have been to have won another 2 or 3 titles with better built teams, with the players we traded away….Justice, Wainwright, Elvis, Nefi. The trade for Fred McGriff added to a team we knew was contender, not to team we hoped could “get into” the playoffs.
ryan
October 27th, 2010
8:24 pm
My worst trades for the Braves David Justice and Marquis Gresham for for Kenny Lofton and the JD Drew and Wainwright trades.
johnr
October 27th, 2010
8:41 pm
Never ever trade for a Scott Boras player. You would have thought Schuerholz would have learned his lesson with JD Drew
JASon
October 27th, 2010
8:49 pm
Bobby’s passive, business-as-usual approach to managing is not very condusive to the development of young players. If Neftali and Elvis had come up through the braves organization, lets be honest, they probably wouldn’t have turned into anything.
papadawg
October 27th, 2010
9:04 pm
Why is anyone surprised, the Braves have always made stupid trades like this. I bet all teams just chomp at the bit when the Braves come calling
Dirty Jacket
October 27th, 2010
9:05 pm
These kinds of hind-sight analyses are absurd. When we made the trade, we had the up-and-coming Yunel Escobar, whom Edgar Renteria dubbed as having as much hitting talent as Albert Pujols. We had Mike Gonzo and Rafael Soriano, with Moylan to boot in the pen.
We went after Teixera at a crucial time; we needed a bat and first baseman. At the time, all thought it was the best trade, with knowledge that we just emptied the farm for it. It didn’t work out, no fault of Teixera’s. Had we made the playoffs and gone deep, this article wouldn’t exist. Well, knowing Bradley, it probably would.
You can call the JD Drew trade bad, 6 years later, only because you know how good Wainwright has been. He was NEVER projected to be a Cy Young quality ace by anyone. He was a solid pitching prospect. JD Drew lit it up in Atlanta, actually stayed healthy, and we got to the playoffs.
Typically those questioning trades 3-5 years after the fact don’t know much about the sport, this includes Bradley. Bradley I’m sure would admit that he is simply the “shock-jock” writer of the AJC and he really doesn’t know much about any sport, he just stirs the pot. Which is fine, but hopefully no one actually uses his “articles” as a guide of any sort.
5150 P.O.A.D
October 27th, 2010
9:07 pm
I have a great idea. Why don’t all the UGA and GT fans that like to post on the AJC.com meet at the Atalnta Community Food Bank the Friday after Thanksgiving to help sort food, help the poor, and talk crap the day before the game. It would let all of us meet and drop some of the Behind the Screen hatred.
Dirty Jacket
October 27th, 2010
9:12 pm
“Why is anyone surprised, the Braves have always made stupid trades like this. I bet all teams just chomp at the bit when the Braves come calling”
Are you being serious? Please tell me how Tim Hudson came to the Braves…crickets. Look it up.
Fred McGriff to the Braves….who was involved in the trade?
How about Mike Gonzalez?
Rafael Soriano?
Gary Sheffield came via trade, tell me who the Braves gave up that they regretted giving up?
Dirty Jacket
October 27th, 2010
9:16 pm
“Bobby’s passive, business-as-usual approach to managing is not very condusive to the development of young players. If Neftali and Elvis had come up through the braves organization, lets be honest, they probably wouldn’t have turned into anything.”
Good point; this was the problem the Braves faced with Brian McCann, Jeff Francoeur (solid 3 yrs), Jason Heyward, Jair Jurjenns, Peter Moylan, Adam LaRoche, Yunel Escobar, Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones, Ryan Klesko, Rafael Furcal, Martin Prado, Kelly Johnson…..etc……
JCH
October 27th, 2010
9:17 pm
Braves made how many playoffs since MArk was traded??? and Yankees Won lt years World Series…. Theres No Question Braves Gave up Gold in MArk and Got Zip in return.
hucker
October 27th, 2010
9:22 pm
McLough trade might be right up there — although not much given up.If the slider isn’t thrown to Sanchez in the ninth of game 3, Braves had excellent chance of winning that series. Phillies were in flux and Braves had real good chance against them. Escobar was the top prospect then ahead of Andrus — can’t yell about that. Feliz was in A ball and Santa (can’t thrown the ball back to pitcher) lamacha probably will be an adequate catcher at Red Sox AAA team.
kral
October 27th, 2010
9:29 pm
YOU KNOW WHAT, This is really sad for the Phillie’s and Yankee’s fans because if they were in the BCS system thet would be playing for a World Championship right now….
kral
October 27th, 2010
9:31 pm
yes I screwed up they
Brave 1
October 27th, 2010
9:31 pm
Short term thinking – just like the Drew trade. Was happy to see JS move up. He seemed to get lazy as the years went on. He was more of a senior management guy verses down in the trenches anyway. Don’t get me wrong; all should recognize that he came in and ‘fixed’ many things about the Braves; pitching, defense, worst field in baseball to one of the best, worst defense in baseball to one of the best. But like many in here; I thought his trades became ‘worst and worst’ as time went on.
kral
October 27th, 2010
9:33 pm
Got to get back to the WS and keep up with the Hawks…Both are great so far…
Legend of Len Barker
October 27th, 2010
9:43 pm
@Bradley: “The first Teixeira trade has been characterized as the worst in Braves’ history, which it wasn’t — the Len Barker and J.D. Drew moves were worse…”
You rang?
As of right now Gregor Blanco, et. al. for Ankiel and Farnsworth was bad, no matter how badly Blanco does in Kansas City. Farnsworth had very little in the tank and Ankiel was an abomination.
Vols1
October 27th, 2010
9:48 pm
There were so many bad trades by Schuerholz that it is hard to say which was worse. In addition to all of the terrible moves listed in the blog, don’t forget Jason Schmidt for Denny Neagle, Kevin Millwood for Johnny Estrada, and David Justice for Kenny Lofton. The farm system covered a lot of sins as did the three Hall of Fame pitchers who carried the Braves for a decade.
The Abs Man
October 27th, 2010
9:55 pm
Ted M
Gonzo stinks and he’s a non-hustle guy just like Escobar
Amen to Ted M.
I contend a HORRIBLE trade was chubby lil shortstop Alex Gonzalez for Yunel Escobar. And that disaster will haunt us all 2011…..
Yes, Yunnel acted too often like a punk.
BUT–Escobar has more range and defensive ability in the last drop he shakes off at night than our current lil chubby moodster.
During the Giants-Braves series, Tom Verducci made a point of saying that shortstop trade was 100% made by and for Bobby Cox.
And with groundball-pitchers as Lowe and Hudson, we now have an average defender at short. At best.
The Abs Man
October 27th, 2010
10:05 pm
The Yunel Escobar for Alex-G deal was last July, and will show even more in 2011 to be a fetid trade.
Escobar has more range and defensive ability in his pinkie than our current lil’ moody chubster.
Yes–Escobar was then an immature punk. No dispute, but I always opined he was salvageable.
A-Gonz pouts just as much and doesn’t hustle at all. and while he has more pop at the plate than Escobar, with groundball-pitchers like Lowe and Hudson heading rotation, we now have an average defender at ss,at best.
That trade, according to Tom Verducci, was made strictly by and for Bobby Cox.
extremus
October 27th, 2010
10:11 pm
While there is the “win some, lose some” aspect to any trade, I think the stakes have become too high for any team to take lightly. The Len Barker, J.D. Drew, and Texiera trades all will live in Braves infamy for obvious reasons, but any time you give up prospects at any level for a “proven” veteran who’s basically a short-term gun-for-hire, you’d better win the World Series that season or be prepared for heads to roll come the offseason, and let alone if those prospects end up becoming star players at the MLB level.
The same thing applies to free agents; by now the price of even a “mid-level” player is becoming prohibitive for many teams to afford. The lessons learned from Mike Hampton and Kenshin Kawakami, among others, should give the Braves pause concerning any future such “opportunities” with regard to how much they’re willing to invest. NOBODY should be paid for a job before it’s finished; baseball players of any caliber should not be exempt from that rule. MLB and every other pro league needs to pay based on production AFTER the season and do away with all of the ridiculous guaranteed contracts that are killing the sports (Stephen Strasburg, Jon Koncak, or Albert Haynesworth, anyone?).
tayoncolt
October 27th, 2010
10:16 pm
My biggest problem with the trade was the way Teixeira left. He played for Tech and all that so we hoped he would want to hang around a little longer to help the Braves back to the playoffs. I know, I know…wishfull thinking in these days of “big paydays” vs team loyalty. I think the future looks good for the Braves…as in trades, though, only time will tell.
woodie
October 27th, 2010
10:18 pm
A painfully painful deal that was wrought…now the aftermath.
nashvillewill
October 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
As a long-time (50 + year) Braves fan, I have a hard time recalling ANY trade where the Braves received value. Pendleton ? Smoltz? I think the majority of roster improvements made outside home-grown were free-agent signings. I’m particularly opposed to trades of young talent for aging stars or one year rent-a-players. At all costs, the Braves hold Infante, Prado, Venters, Kimbrel, Heyward, Hinske, Hudson, Lowe, Hanson, McCann. There’s your nucleus for the next 5 years. Build around these guys and the Braves will be contenders for a long time. Buy a CF or RF and move Heyward to CF. Install Infante in LF.
Trade or let go: Gonzales, Lee, Glaus, Conrad, Diaz, Melky, McClouth, Ankiel, Dunn, any other pitcher that they can get value for other than the nucleus guys. Surely letting go some of these salaries will produce enough to purchase a CF & SS. Build around the rest from within the organization. With a new manager, I am optimistic the Braves can contend next year. Unless they let go some of the nucleus guys.
Go Braves!
Gwinnett Fred
October 27th, 2010
10:21 pm
He3ll, I’m just glad Bradley is blogging baseball and not the Hawks – when Bradley keeps his ass away, they play much better.
Currently up 20 in the 4th!!!!!!!
Gwinnett Fred
October 27th, 2010
10:35 pm
nashvillewill:
Let me jog your memory, your’s seems to failing you:
McGriff-1993 for basically NOTHING
Grissom-1995 for 3 bums that didn’t last 2 years thereafter
Sheffield-2002 for Brian Jordan
Hudson-2004 for 3 minor leaguers that never amounted to anything
Jurrjens-2007 for Renteria
So there’s 5 for you, and since you want to mention being a 50 year Braves fan, I’ll test your memory even further. Remember who we gave up for AL MVP Jeff Burroughs in 1976?? Try 5 mediocre at best players that never amounted to anything, including Adrian Devine, Dave May (who is the anwer to the trivia question “Who did we get for Hank Aaron in 1974) and Carl Morton.
So no, we don’t make a blockbuster lopsided deal every year – no team does – but don’t show your ignorance by saying in the last 50 years we’ve not made ANY trade for value.
Hoosier Aaron
October 27th, 2010
10:41 pm
Okay, while we’re mentioning bad trades -
I remember (but do not care) who we received in the Aug 3, 1990 trade but it doesn’t matter – we traded Murph.
Jeff Parrett, Victoria Rosario, Jim Vatcher – who cares. We traded Murph – ‘nough said.
Justice & Grissom trade still has me scratching my head.
tdog
October 27th, 2010
10:46 pm
I’ve always wondered. What’s the big deal in being first on a blog? Sounds to me like some people have no life.
Hoosier Aaron
October 27th, 2010
11:01 pm
In terms of good trades, let’s not forget the Jimmy Kremers for Otis Nixon trade (couple others involved – I do not recall their names). I’d do that deal again in a second.
“He caught the ball…he caught the ball. I can’t believe it! What a catch by Otis Nixon”….great call on that one Skip!!
Space Monkey
October 27th, 2010
11:03 pm
These pieces would not have made a difference. We had a great closer and an adequate SS. What we need is outfield power. We didn’t trade that away. This was a bad trade. But these players would not make us a championship team. We need a basher who hits 35-plus HRs. It’s been a long time since we’ve had one.
kaminari
October 27th, 2010
11:06 pm
Hindsight. I’m just glad these two youngsters had the opportunity. For sure, Andrus probably would’ve been traded cause the Braves were so infatuated with Yunel. The truly sad thing is that there are players who sign with agents like you-know-how, and there are teams that can afford to pay so much for said players, while there are organizations that can’t. Disparity. Cause if we were still owned by Ted, then I bet Texeira is still playing here, and we’d be in the Fall Classic, too.
kaminari
October 27th, 2010
11:08 pm
I meant that Andrus would’ve been traded even if he wasn’t traded for Texeira. Nobody was gonna displace Yunel.
Bravofan511
October 27th, 2010
11:15 pm
Gonna Miss Bobby but like Fredi, That’s For Darn Sure-
The Escobar Trade made me think is this a joke? He might have been a headache but he was damn good (Maybe not at the time of the trade but still) and cheap for a couple years. Now we have a below average shortstop who is a 20+ error a year guy, and no young GOOD shortstop to take over for atleast 3 years.
PMC
October 27th, 2010
11:21 pm
Yeah but the Rangers aren’t in the WS because of the Tex trade.
They are there because a cavalcade of errors that somehow left them with Cliff Lee.
They are the luckiest team in baseball the last several years.
PMC
October 27th, 2010
11:24 pm
It would be nice to have Wainwright… but JD Drew was pretty freaking good here and clearly this team doesn’t have much luck with finding outfielders who can hit and play defense. They did go to the playoffs with Drew.
Yunel was a pill I’m sure, but Gonzalez didn’t inspire confidence. I sure hope they have someone else to count on in the pipeline.
Cujo
October 27th, 2010
11:26 pm
Yes it was a horrible trade. Why on earth would you give up so much for a player who gave every indication from the very beginning he had his eyes on free agency and the Yankees? Stupid, stupid, stupid…
Cujo
October 27th, 2010
11:31 pm
So often general managers feel they need to be seen doing something (trade-wise) when often the best move is to stand pat. I hate short-term thinking in player personnel decisions.
benchwarmer
October 28th, 2010
12:23 am
Well, the Braves need a trade or something this year to shore up a wobbly and weak hitting outfield. What have they got to let go in exchange for a game changer. I just don’t see how this can be worked out. Any ideas? Please don’t say Donkey Dunn. Like some have described Tex, Dunn has big numbers but he does not make a team better.
The Abs Man
October 28th, 2010
12:24 am
Bravofan511 —-Bingo….you blogged a mouthful…all these posts on trades nice academically and historically–but Braves now have a stiff at shortstop….a guy not in same zip code defensively as Yunel.
Cox could not find any way shape manner or form to get along with Escobar….I understand that—Yunel was a serious headache and a punk needing to grow up….but Alex G is so inferior defensively compared to Yunel, it’s not funny,
Look, we all would love the time-machine ride to re-do trades, but face facts–we are stuck with this rat Alex G at shortstop.
benchwarmer
October 28th, 2010
12:29 am
Maybe this year Matt Diaz will get a real chance to show what he can do. Just think the man can hit and believe he has shown he can play left pretty well. He lacks the power but I would like to know what he can do. When he is hot I think he lights up the team. Can he be hot regularly as a regular?
ward
October 28th, 2010
12:59 am
anybody wonder when the next dumb trade will happen!san fran still suck….Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
1:12 am
how come the Braves always get screwed over trades? remember the dale murphy trade too.that was truely pathetic trade.Go!!!! Braves!!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
1:15 am
conrad at least has more heart than diaz or mCclouth. at least rick ankiel came through in the play offs. Go!!!! Braves!!!!
reckingball
October 28th, 2010
1:39 am
ABS MAN 12;24……………How many gold gloves did Excobar win? Excobar made plenty of errors, and a lot of stupid plays, himself. Why do you think that all of Excobar’s teammates gave a standing ovation to his replacement, upon Gonzo’s arrival? Apparently they had enough of his BS and bad attitude, also.
The worst that any reasonable person can say about the trade, is that it was nothing for nothing.
I think that the Braves got the better end of the deal.
reckingball
October 28th, 2010
1:50 am
Tired OF It @3:44………You must of really enjoyed watching Melky killing so many rallies, and fumbling around in the outfield.
They should nickname him Melky “Weak Grounder to Second” Cabrera. He played a big role in the Braves not winning the division.
I am glad that he is gone, I wish that the Braves had gotten rid of him before the season started.
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:18 am
maybe we can trade wren for a box of snickers candy bars.that would be better than any of his trades. let’s trade him….
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:25 am
i’m tired of our talent being traded away for nothing.Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:46 am
remember on major league 2 when pedro c.bacame a panzy, and the japanese guy told him he had no marbles! wren you have… no marbles…….no marbles……Go!!! Braves!!!!
NCBravesFan
October 28th, 2010
6:50 am
Dirty Jacket @ 9:05pm: yes, we needed a 1B, but we needed a starting pitcher much, much more. Here is the 2007 rotation –
Tim Hudson
John Smoltz
Chuck James
Buddy Carlyle
Kyle Davies
That team wasn’t going anywhere with the last three names on that list. It was a bad trade because Tex didn’t solve that core pitching problem.
The Braves didn’t seriously contend again until they finally addressed their pitching (2009-2010).
Tech Sucks
October 28th, 2010
6:50 am
It was an awful trade and everyone knew it at the time.
Biff Pocoroba Fan Club
October 28th, 2010
7:49 am
Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker is the worst trade of all time. Worse than Len Barker or JD Drew.
Bill Stanfill
October 28th, 2010
8:18 am
Good overview of that trade, Mark.
Braves need to spend about 15-20 million more on free agents this year.. They are in a position now that they weren’t in in 2007–a couple of solid additions in the outfield could make this team a contender for the forseeable future.
Keep most of the young pitching.
Sign at least one good outfielder, (preferably two). If necessary, make a trade for another.
Sign petitions to get LM to sell the team to an ownership group made up of people who love baseball as much as they love profits.
candycorn
October 28th, 2010
8:28 am
Philly won the division that year w/ a ragtag rotation.
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
October 28th, 2010
8:34 am
agreed MB- in hindsight, braves would’ve been better off w/o texiera. even if we didn’t keep andrus or feliz, they could’ve been used as trade bait for a better OF or 1B 2 years ago.
Tron5000
October 28th, 2010
8:49 am
Oh. My. Goodness. Talk about beating a dead horse. Mark, when Neftali Feliz sets the all-time save record in 2024, I look forward to your article on the Mark Teixeira trade.
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
8:52 am
fire wren now tell me what player hes got for us that could start fo another team
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
8:54 am
need is for good everyday players not bench players
Kendawg
October 28th, 2010
8:57 am
Does anyone remember Leo Mazzone? How many division championships have the Braves won since he went to Baltimore?
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
9:00 am
and where is glavine smoltz and maddox
In Fredi I trust
October 28th, 2010
10:44 am
Its a moot point now. The Braves were trying at that time to make a run at the playoffs and couldn’t get it done. At that time, we got the better of the deal. Over the long haul, the Rangers did, and everyone knew that when the trade went down.
H_charles
October 28th, 2010
11:04 am
This trade was awful.
It’s only justifiable if the Braves had signed Tex
long term.
By comparison, look at how little the
Phillies gave up for Oswalt, a frontline starter under contract for the same length we had Tex for.
While we gave up 5 prospects (2 all-stars plus whatever Salty and Harrison later do).
Philly had to part with only one top prospect in Happ.
While hindsight is 20/20, when you throw that many top prospects in the deal you greatly increase the odds that some will prosper.
We should have done a deal for Tex. We should have been able to for 3 prospects however. That’s what makes it awful.
The ones who got away in Atlanta (and the one who got to New York) | The Lohud Yankees Blog
October 28th, 2010
11:49 am
[...] In New York, the Rangers’ run to the World Series has sparked second guessing of July’s near-trade for Cliff Lee. In Atlanta, it’s led to second guessing of the 2007 trade of Mark Teixeira. [...]
bvillebaron
October 28th, 2010
1:06 pm
Mark:
The Texeira trade with the Rangers was the worst in Atlanta Braves history. I said at the time that this wasn’t going to work because the core of the team that had led to 14 straight divsional titles, especially the pitching was no longer in place and Texeira was a very good player but not a difference maker. The team should have started the rebuilding at that time, not setting that process back by several years by trading away 5 prospects.
don
October 28th, 2010
1:16 pm
It is shocking to see that some still try to justify the Teixeira disaster. While most now agree that it was a terrible move, some of us did so at the time the trade was being discussed. It was dumb then. It is worse now.
Only a fool would still try to rationalize that deal.
I was crucified when I posted rather pointed statements about the stupidity of the trade prior to it being made and thereafter. All fell in line with getting Teixeira like a bunch of lemmings going off the cliff. Thus, I don’t feel any regret in saying “I told you so”. The fact is that the Rangers made fools of Schuerholz and his gopher, Wren. The trade was, and is, unconscionable.
don
October 28th, 2010
1:18 pm
I’m amused by the posters who say that Andrus is “average”. On the MLB Network they use a different word to describe him. That word is “superstar”.
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:28 pm
what made me sad,was david justice trade, and when wren traded mark texeria. that really pissed me off.he showed he wasn’t willing to build a team around one player.scott boras sucks too! even if wren does make some block buster trade. his mamgement has worn out already on me.keep our talent, or don’t trade at all. Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:37 pm
wren management is done with me. i love the braves, but will never give wren credit for anything for no on. Go!!! Braves!!!!
AZBravoFan
October 28th, 2010
3:02 pm
UGABugKiller:
Trading a 100mph throwing pitcher for a right fielder with a cash register where his heart should be is the worst single trade in Braves history, and I would put it up there in the top-5 worst of all time, next to Ruth-for-Money and the Smoltz trade.
You NEVER trade a pitcher who throws 100mph. Ever. And ESPECIALLY not for JD Drew.
Umm…do you remember Jose Capellan?
ward
October 28th, 2010
3:10 pm
no i don’t remember jose chapellan, but remember when bret butler was let go, and he went to the dogers, and once again that was a bad move by management. Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
3:13 pm
well see you guy’s later i feel your pain. gotta go to work!! Go!!! Braves!!!!
oilcan boyd
October 28th, 2010
3:56 pm
js was great at firesales with turner money. after turner left js was lost. once , the owner of the chattanooga lookouts JOE ENGLE known as the baron of the bushes trading a player for a turkey, but he only did it once. js has done it several times. the golleywhopper was the jd drew trade.
stump#5
October 28th, 2010
4:13 pm
JS wrote a book. BUILT TO WIN the braves hasn’t won anything since that book was wrote.
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:43 pm
closer (approximately 75-90 innings) is more important than how many of the starting spots on the rotation? At least 3 (C would have to be one of those 5, I would think) who pitch around 150-200+ innings).
That is an asinine statement. A run in the 9th is worth the same as any other inning.
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:44 pm
Put another way, if you were the Phillies would you rather try to replace Lidge or Oswalt?
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:46 pm
Also, getting rid of Wainwright for captain hamstring was much, much worse than trading away Feliz and Andrus for someone who was a first-rate superstar (if but a rental).
stump#2
October 28th, 2010
4:54 pm
when i was a little boy my daddy took me to see the first game the braves ever played in atlanta. that was in 1966. i can barely remember it, but i will never ever forget JS trading wainwright for j.d.drew. funny thing happen. j.d. has his best year in the bigs ever with the braves. JS with balls of steel offered drew a thee year $25,000,000 contract. the dodgers offer was 52 mil. for three years. it’s a shame the dodgers didn’t hire JS. that way the BIG TEX deal might not have happen.
Hoosier Aaron
October 28th, 2010
5:20 pm
I remember Jose Capellan – he and Alec Zumwalt were in the Danny Kolb trade.
Who won that one?
wins-by-a-link
October 28th, 2010
6:23 pm
T he braves have allways been famous for making bad trades going all the way back to the len barker deal, Concerning the tex deal some have made the comment that no one knew the young players involved would turn out to be allstars, But guess what? Some one in Texas did.
8dogman
October 28th, 2010
7:01 pm
Good article. I have been a braves fan since the late 50’s when they players like Aaron, Covington, Burdette and Spahn. I kept up with them for several years until they started making these bum trades in the past few years. I didn’t like the JD Drew deal or the Tex trade because the entire country knew they were only rentals. Tex kept saying how he grew up liking the braves and his wife liked living close to Maryland and all that other bunk knowing all time he would get millions from the money rich Yankees. The braves management knew that too.Everytime I see Andrus and Feliz in a game it makes me cringe. I remember the Kenny Lofton trade and that rates as one of the worse trades too. The braves did make 2 good trade when they got John Smoltz and the crime dog trade but I can’t remember very many more. I can remember the bum trades because most of the trades in the past 5-6 years fit that catergory. 5 prospects for a one year rental was stupid regardless of who it was.
wrenmeadeal
October 28th, 2010
8:52 pm
WREEEEEEEEEN!!!
ward
October 29th, 2010
12:21 am
san fran still sucks!!!!!!!! steroids!!!!!!!! steroids!!!!!!!! steroids!!!!!!
ward
October 29th, 2010
12:23 am
did anybody check san fran players before the game….. sreroids!!!!!!
ward
October 29th, 2010
12:30 am
even if wren pulls out a trade. is it worth the risk of our young talent?esdpecially if he’s not willing to sign them? Go!!! Braves!!!
YankeesVine » Blog Archive » The ones who got away in Atlanta (and the one who got to New York)
October 29th, 2010
4:23 am
[...] In New York, the Rangers’ run to the World Series has sparked second guessing of July’s near-trade for Cliff Lee. In Atlanta, it’s led to second guessing of the 2007 trade of Mark Teixeira. [...]
S(n)oaring Hawk
October 29th, 2010
10:07 am
What is John Schuerholz ? He and wren talk about each trade right?
S(n)oaring Hawk
October 29th, 2010
10:09 am
what=where sorry
ward
October 29th, 2010
3:14 pm
that was my whole point . overs the years:wren , and john s had oppertunities to make trades to help the Braves, but they didn’t.management passed up the trades, and the phillies, rangers, cardinals boston,or the mets would slide in a grab the players,and the Braves management passed them up. we had a chance to get valdie too as well as c belttron a few years ago, and that is the sad true story of the Braves lifes,poor moves down the stretch, and no world series. sad sorry state.thats why i’m not sold on wren! Go!!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 29th, 2010
3:16 pm
just keep,our young players, and let them develope. freddy will do a good job, and jordon shafer should play well for freddy gonzalaz. Go!!! Braves!!!
Jamie Dismuke
October 29th, 2010
9:12 pm
Braves are clueless and lucky just like COX. Hope BRAVES get good scouts.Parrish probably would have been a good scout but he was wasted as a hitting coach. Hitting coaches for the most part hurt players than they help them. A player has to be smart enough to figure things out for themselves. Look at Rick Burleson he single handedly derailed careers of Wade Boggs and Mark McGwire. Boggs was fortunate to rebound from that and McGwire,well he just took better steroids.
ward
October 30th, 2010
4:09 am
every time wren speaks he bothers me. he’s like pinoceole,and you don’t no if he’s telling you the truth,and his noes doesn’t grow, so your stuck wondering, if wren knows what he is doing. i wouldn’t trade prosects for 33 year old players,and i wouldn’t let our star players go.very few trades were good, and i can’t remember them.keep our prosects,and let them develope,because you can’t trade our prospects for good players. Go!!! Braves!!!
ward
October 30th, 2010
4:23 am
maybe we are jinksed by the len barker trade, and the course is still on us. like when boston traded babe ruth to the yankees. Go!!! Braves!!!!
Chipper's ACL
October 30th, 2010
6:19 am
Odd how the Brave’s had to give up so much talent for Tex but didn’t receive anything in return. His one year with the Braves was productive so how could his value go from five prospects, good prospects, to a singles hitting first baseman and an “old” minor league relief pitcher? Insane. That trade, made by Wren, was a pressure trade. Look at the two kids drafted by the Angels as compensation for allowing Tex to walk. Trout, a CF, appears to be a stud. Don’t we all wish a CF is aquired this offseason?
Expect more of the salary dump trades in the future. JJ and Hanson are both represented by Boras. Neither will be in a Braves uniform in five years. It’s fact. The Braves will never have a high end payroll and cannot be restricted by two salaries that will be close to 20 mil a year. We all know what Boras will require for these guys. They’ll end up with the Yankees or Bosox. Don’t need another Millwood trade.
Steve
October 30th, 2010
10:27 am
I want to share another view. Imagine the trade doesn’t happen.
– the Braves likely trade something for a lesser option at first. We still probably lose a prospect, and since he was the biggest piece in the deal I will say Salty and throw in a Harrison
– bring Andrus up as a utility guy this year instead of Conrad maybe
– when we trade Escobar we can likely get a little more for him since teams know we aren’t desparate
– we put Andrus at SS
– Bobby Cox basically will not allow Andrus to run frequently, chopping his game in half.
– Bobby cox also probably bats Andrus 8th, again chopping his usefulness to nothing.
Point I am trying to make is that Andrus would not have been able to flourish due to the mindset of the Braves organization. They don’t want to GENERATE runs with singles and speed. It’s ridiculous.
Add to thisthe fact Harrison would have likely been one of the next call up and maybe this year we would have seen him out there intead of Medlin, or Minor, or Beachy. In fact, it could have went on for 2-3 years. The hype around Hanson would have allowed him to catapult Harrison, but thats it. If you don’t believe me then just ask yourself how many years we kept running JoJo out there, or Chuck James. If Bobby falls in love with a guy he sticks for years.
Lastly, neither DOB, Mark Bradley, Jeff S, nor anyone else who posts on the Braves would realistically believe the Braves would have handed the closer job to Feliz this season. They would have still gone after a vet, and probably still Wagner. I believe Feliz would have been slotted into the closer role for 2011, but are we really hurting there? Maybe Venters doesn’t get a shot to prove himself this year if Feliz is here .. though with him being a lefty I think he probably still would have. Maybewe don’t get a look at Kimbrel and the Braves decide they just aren’t sure about him and with Feliz ahead of him they move him (for my money Kimbrel is a fine pitcher at this stage and will shine when given a chance).
I for one think if we had kept these guys it would have mucked up our team. I would LOVE to have them both but I really like what the Braves have on this team currently. We have one of the best rotations in baseball locked up for the next couple of years. We have an utterly dominant bullpen, even without Wags … though I really want him to come back for veteran leadershiop … but family comes first Billy .. so I won’t hate on you. We have an All-Star second baseman, a crafty and underpaid vet at SS, a rising star in RF … and the best catcher in the NL. We just have to fill in the rest of the pieces. And no, I didn’t forget Chipper … I love the guy, but I don’t think the Braves should count on him coming back for one, and especially not in playing more than 100 games.
I really don’t see the Braves uses any of the pieces they could have saved in the Tex trade to help us where we needed help the most .. in the outfield. The only good players available in the OF the last few years have been thru free agency with the exception of rental players (like Holliday the year he came to the Cards). The Braves would not have saved enough money to go after a premium OF. Heck, with Wags, Glaus, and Cabrera coming off the books we should have around $8-10 million to go tget an OF this year. That would easily get you a upper middle tier option and maybe even a lower top tier option. Abreu signed a 2 year $10 contract and Dunn signed a 2 year $20 million contract two years ago. I would take either of those guys over the last two years, so if we can get someone in that range I have no problem with it. We can fill in the rest of the gaps with minimum salary guys for the most part.
BartmanOrl
October 30th, 2010
12:09 pm
The Len Barker trade will always be the worst! Everyone knew is was bad, unfortunately, before is was even officially announced. Everyone kept saying,” that must be a mistake”! And then they announced it….wow. Brett Butler, Brook Jacoby and Rick Behenna for a Broken down, already injured, Len Barker. Again, EVERYONE knew that was a horrible trade! Owners, GMs, Players, announcers…everyone. It was actually embarassing.
By the way, how is Brett Butler doing? I know he was fighting some medical issues. I hope he has recovered!
ward
October 30th, 2010
6:56 pm
steve: you do have some good points, and well put out there.i’m not focused on andrus or escobar. we have a better shortstop comming up who’s 19 years old. play gonzalaz for a couple of years. then bring the cuban shortstop, who’s supposed to be better!get rid of diaz who making about 9 million, and mcclouth who’s making about 6 million. keep lee, and let glaus go. free up some money.play freeman at first along with lee.get a good back up third baseman to back up chipper, and keep rick ankiel, and play jordan shafer in center. then go get a couple of out fielders that have speed,and can hit, or see what our farm system has. i’m weary on trades right now, and signing people would be better. Go!!! Braves!!!
stew
October 31st, 2010
9:16 am
The problem was that the Braves traded for a short tem solution and had no intention of keeping Tex long term. Knowing that they couldn’t compete for Tex, it was a bad move to let all those prospects get away and should have signed him to a contract before the trade was made with hindsight or without hindsight. The Mets signed Santana before they traded for him.
Bob the Blogger
October 31st, 2010
5:11 pm
I cringed when I saw that we had given up several of our very best prospects for a rental. I knew it was a bad trade, and many of the bloggers thought likewise. A year later, Nolan Ryan was asked by a reporter if there were any young pitchers in their minor league system than reminded him of himself, and he replied that there was one such pitcher – Neftali Feliz. Ahhhhhhhh!!!
Christopher Chance
October 31st, 2010
9:50 pm
I think that it’s safe to say that Buster Posey is making his claim on being voted in as the National League’s starting catcher for the 2011 All-Star game.
Perhaps Brian McCann will take note and get his fat A$$ in shape and work on his throwing mechanics.
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:17 am
did anybody check the giant players before the game. i think they are on steroids,because baseball tonight has been quiet about ozzi g.after he got caught,and the giants are playing with a lot of energy,especially after they were cold before the play offs,and couldn’t hit.why aren’t the feds investigating the team before each game? and making them take the test.Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:24 am
why isn’t anybody checking the giants for steroids?san frans been hot,especially when they couldn’t hit before the play offs even started. why hasn’t baseball tonight talk about more?their short stop ozzie g. caught with them. strange how nobody has talked about it much?.maybe baseball tonight want’s the san fran too win,and be a story in baseball. Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:26 am
san fran on steroids, and nobody is talking about it, ask their shotstop who got caught.Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:28 am
why baseball tonight is not talking more about the steroid issue baffles me? Go!!! Braves!!!
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:29 am
baseball tonight hasn’t talked about the san fran giantson the issue much either. why is that?
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:31 am
baseball has kept this one quet. puzzling is’nt it. san fran steroids……
ward
November 1st, 2010
1:33 am
very… very puzzling steroids…….and the issue quiet! san fran steroids….
ward
November 1st, 2010
2:31 am
i was about to give san fran credit for their success. until ozzie g. their short stop got caught,and it amazes me how baseball tonight is barely talking about it. well see you later!!!! Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
November 1st, 2010
2:34 am
why hasn’t baseball tonight talk more about san fran, and steroid use?see you guy’s later!! Go!!! Braves!!!
Coach
November 1st, 2010
12:45 pm
JD Drew did have a nice season with the Braves, but I do understand what many of you are saying.
voice of reason
November 1st, 2010
3:15 pm
who cares what andy considers watch ag play ss then watch the kid in texas if you know even one thing about baseball you will see one had a good arm the other a dish rag one can run the other can wadle/jog one can put bat to ball the other swings for the fence which somone sems to have moved back since he left the skydome lol
voice of reason
November 1st, 2010
3:20 pm
maybe before trying to be a know it all check out some facts pastornicky is listed in milb as a second baseman with range, carlesss error problems at second not short stop lol
Elitist
November 1st, 2010
5:28 pm
Living in Texas gives me a little different perspective of the Teixeira trade. I watched him in Texas every day for several years and didn’t think he was what the Braves were missing, or he wasn’t enough of what they were missing. I thought the Braves needed to stand pat and if they couldn’t win with what they had, renting a player for three of their top prospects was dumb. I have been able to see Elvis play in AA and 2 years in Texas. His rookie year while he was hitting .265 I could see he is going to be a high average, high on base percentage guy. He is also a great teammate. I predict he will be a 20 year starter in the majors. Hall of fame consideration. Feliz is only going to get better. I would have hated to trade either of those straight up for Teixeira knowing we were not going to re-sign him. Terrible trade. If Matt Harrison gets healthy he will be a successful starter.
ward
November 2nd, 2010
12:56 am
one word for san fransico giants winning the world sereies 4
games to 1.STERIODS……………………………………………………………………………………………………
ward
November 2nd, 2010
1:00 am
LET THE WINTER MEETINGS BEGIN…………Go!!!! Braves!!!!!!!
ward
November 2nd, 2010
2:35 am
i just watched baseball tonight,and john kruk, and bobby valentine, and the main announcer. once again failed to bring up the steroid issue. shows how gutless baseball tonight, and espn failed to bring up the issue.which ozzie g. got caught using them, and i don’t by the team effort crap baseball tonight protraded it.truley pathetic how desperate baseball is to have a story.
guest
November 2nd, 2010
2:40 am
Najeh Davenpoop
October 27th, 2010
1:05 pm
And Bradley completely misses the point by trying to point out how some of those prospects have not panned out yet. The point is that those prospects had a ton of value at the time, and if they were going to be traded, the smart move would have been to trade them for a) players who addressed the team’s problem areas and b) players who were likely to stick around for more than a year.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
When this trade was made, their need was a slugging 1B to take over for Scott Thorman (who was hitting .216/.258/.394 in 2007). Plus, Tex would have been around for 2 playoff runs (had the Braves been in the hunt in 2008). So, I don’t see how this was not a smart trade by your criteria.
ward
November 2nd, 2010
3:09 am
guest: i agree never trade your prospects. especially if your not going to sign who you traded for. wren makes a living doing things like this, but we have a cuban shortstop.who is 19 years old, and in a couple of years he will be ready, and he is way better than escobar or andrus.i just can’t remember his name…. Go!!!!! Braves!!!!!
ward
November 2nd, 2010
4:55 am
baseball tonight i will not respect a team that wasn’t investigated for steroid use after their short stop ozzie g. got caught with steriods. way to go!!!! you guy’s covered that one!!!!! how can you say they were good,when you guy’s covered up the story. it’s sad how you had to do that. Go!!!!! Braves!!!!
Amanda Hugnkiss
November 3rd, 2010
12:56 pm
I will trade 2 years of my life for the Katie Couric colonoscopy video and if Sarah Palin will please just go away!!!
Elvisinthehouse
November 3rd, 2010
2:28 pm
Braves are just like the falcons,trade good players to save money and make other teams better.Then the fans cheer on the trade and it slaps them both in the face. The state of Ga sports don’t have a clue and cheap.
Old Braves Fan
November 3rd, 2010
3:34 pm
Back in 1975, the Braves made one of their worst trades in the history of major league sports. Johnny “Dusty” Baker for James Sherman Wynn, Jr., otherwise known as the “Toy Cannon.” Personally, I feel ths was the worst deal ever made by the Braves. A very close second would be the stupid Len Barker deal.