With Texas in the Series, we reconsider the Teixeira trade
Two of the five most important players on a big-league team are the shortstop and the closer. The Texas Rangers, gracing the World Series for the first time in their existence, have young All-Stars at both spots. They came courtesy of the Atlanta Braves.
July 31, 2007: The Braves sent five prospects to Texas for first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay. They won that night — Teixeira hadn’t yet arrived — to draw within 3 1/2 games of the Mets in the National League East. They would get no closer, finishing in third place, five games behind the division-winning Phillies.
July 29, 2008: Knowing Teixeira, who would become a free agent at season’s end, wouldn’t re-up with them, the Braves traded him to the Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman and minor-league pitcher Steve Marek. The Braves were in fourth place, 7 1/2 games out of first. Teixeira played 157 games as a Brave, hitting .295 with 134 RBIs and 37 homers. As a Brave, he spent one day — April 6, 2008 — in first place.
The first Teixeira trade has been characterized as the worst in Braves’ history, which it wasn’t — the Len Barker and J.D. Drew moves were worse — and has been credited with energizing the entire Rangers’ organization in a way one deal seldom does. And as Braves general manager Frank Wren settles back to watch the Fall Classic, does he think to himself: “Boy, we could’ve used Elvis Andrus [the All-Star shortstop] and Neftali Feliz [the All-Star closer]?”
Said Wren: “Whenever there are guys who were in your organization, you always wonder, ‘What if?’ But you have those same ‘what-if?’ thoughts before you make any trade.”
Wren did not consummate the first Teixeira trade. That was the last major transaction made by John Schuerholz, now the team president. But Wren was Schuerholz’s deputy in July 2007 — he would become GM in October of that year — and was, like most everyone around the Braves back then, in agreement that landing an All-Star first baseman who’d played at Georgia Tech was worth the cost.
Wren again: “We’ve just seen how precious getting into the postseason really is, and there’s always a thought that you’re willing to take a risk if there’s a chance of that happening.”
The first Teixeira trade did not bankrupt the Braves’ farm system. The organization has since turned out Tommy Hanson, who finished third in the 2009 rookie of the year voting, and Jason Heyward, who will probably win the 2010 award. And the two major prospects the Braves sent to Texas — Andrus and catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia — played positions that seemed well stocked.
The Braves had Brian McCann catching ahead of Saltalamacchia, and they had a young shortstop named Yunel Escobar who’d just made his major-league debut. “Actually,” Wren said, “we had both [Edgar] Renteria and Escobar ahead of Andrus.”
Literally and figuratively, Saltalamacchia was the biggest name among Braves’ prospect, and more than three years later his career still hasn’t taken wing. He was the Opening Day catcher for Texas this April and drove in the winning run with a walk-off single; it was his final RBI as a Ranger. He got hurt, developed problems throwing the ball back to the pitcher, languished in the minors and was traded to Boston on (that day again) July 31.
Neftali Feliz after closing out the Yankees. (AP photo)
As for the other parts of the package: Matt Harrison, a left-handed pitcher, was a member of the Rangers’ starting rotation the past three seasons but was demoted to the bullpen this summer and wasn’t on the Texas roster for either the Division Series or the ALCS; Beau Jones, another lefthander, hasn’t risen above Class AA.
So essentially the deal can be boiled down to Andrus and Feliz for 157 games’ worth of Teixeira. The Braves liked Andrus but thought Escobar would be the greater run-producer. Given that the Braves tired of Escobar’s moods and traded him to Toronto for the 33-year-old Alex Gonzalez in July … yes, it would have been nice to have had a younger option still in the chain.
And if Feliz had been a Brave, Wren mightn’t have spent $6.75 million on Billy Wagner, and perhaps that money could have been better spent buying another outfielder. But Wren notes: “At the time of the trade, Feliz was in Danville [meaning rookie ball].” Meaning: There was no guarantee he’d be this good.
The Braves saw an opening in July 2007 and made a move. It didn’t work, and they moved on. And for what it’s worth, the 2010 Braves did finish with a better record than did the Rangers.
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244 comments Add your comment
Hoosier Aaron
October 27th, 2010
10:41 pm
Okay, while we’re mentioning bad trades -
I remember (but do not care) who we received in the Aug 3, 1990 trade but it doesn’t matter – we traded Murph.
Jeff Parrett, Victoria Rosario, Jim Vatcher – who cares. We traded Murph – ‘nough said.
Justice & Grissom trade still has me scratching my head.
tdog
October 27th, 2010
10:46 pm
I’ve always wondered. What’s the big deal in being first on a blog? Sounds to me like some people have no life.
Hoosier Aaron
October 27th, 2010
11:01 pm
In terms of good trades, let’s not forget the Jimmy Kremers for Otis Nixon trade (couple others involved – I do not recall their names). I’d do that deal again in a second.
“He caught the ball…he caught the ball. I can’t believe it! What a catch by Otis Nixon”….great call on that one Skip!!
Space Monkey
October 27th, 2010
11:03 pm
These pieces would not have made a difference. We had a great closer and an adequate SS. What we need is outfield power. We didn’t trade that away. This was a bad trade. But these players would not make us a championship team. We need a basher who hits 35-plus HRs. It’s been a long time since we’ve had one.
kaminari
October 27th, 2010
11:06 pm
Hindsight. I’m just glad these two youngsters had the opportunity. For sure, Andrus probably would’ve been traded cause the Braves were so infatuated with Yunel. The truly sad thing is that there are players who sign with agents like you-know-how, and there are teams that can afford to pay so much for said players, while there are organizations that can’t. Disparity. Cause if we were still owned by Ted, then I bet Texeira is still playing here, and we’d be in the Fall Classic, too.
kaminari
October 27th, 2010
11:08 pm
I meant that Andrus would’ve been traded even if he wasn’t traded for Texeira. Nobody was gonna displace Yunel.
Bravofan511
October 27th, 2010
11:15 pm
Gonna Miss Bobby but like Fredi, That’s For Darn Sure-
The Escobar Trade made me think is this a joke? He might have been a headache but he was damn good (Maybe not at the time of the trade but still) and cheap for a couple years. Now we have a below average shortstop who is a 20+ error a year guy, and no young GOOD shortstop to take over for atleast 3 years.
PMC
October 27th, 2010
11:21 pm
Yeah but the Rangers aren’t in the WS because of the Tex trade.
They are there because a cavalcade of errors that somehow left them with Cliff Lee.
They are the luckiest team in baseball the last several years.
PMC
October 27th, 2010
11:24 pm
It would be nice to have Wainwright… but JD Drew was pretty freaking good here and clearly this team doesn’t have much luck with finding outfielders who can hit and play defense. They did go to the playoffs with Drew.
Yunel was a pill I’m sure, but Gonzalez didn’t inspire confidence. I sure hope they have someone else to count on in the pipeline.
Cujo
October 27th, 2010
11:26 pm
Yes it was a horrible trade. Why on earth would you give up so much for a player who gave every indication from the very beginning he had his eyes on free agency and the Yankees? Stupid, stupid, stupid…
Cujo
October 27th, 2010
11:31 pm
So often general managers feel they need to be seen doing something (trade-wise) when often the best move is to stand pat. I hate short-term thinking in player personnel decisions.
benchwarmer
October 28th, 2010
12:23 am
Well, the Braves need a trade or something this year to shore up a wobbly and weak hitting outfield. What have they got to let go in exchange for a game changer. I just don’t see how this can be worked out. Any ideas? Please don’t say Donkey Dunn. Like some have described Tex, Dunn has big numbers but he does not make a team better.
The Abs Man
October 28th, 2010
12:24 am
Bravofan511 —-Bingo….you blogged a mouthful…all these posts on trades nice academically and historically–but Braves now have a stiff at shortstop….a guy not in same zip code defensively as Yunel.
Cox could not find any way shape manner or form to get along with Escobar….I understand that—Yunel was a serious headache and a punk needing to grow up….but Alex G is so inferior defensively compared to Yunel, it’s not funny,
Look, we all would love the time-machine ride to re-do trades, but face facts–we are stuck with this rat Alex G at shortstop.
benchwarmer
October 28th, 2010
12:29 am
Maybe this year Matt Diaz will get a real chance to show what he can do. Just think the man can hit and believe he has shown he can play left pretty well. He lacks the power but I would like to know what he can do. When he is hot I think he lights up the team. Can he be hot regularly as a regular?
ward
October 28th, 2010
12:59 am
anybody wonder when the next dumb trade will happen!san fran still suck….Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
1:12 am
how come the Braves always get screwed over trades? remember the dale murphy trade too.that was truely pathetic trade.Go!!!! Braves!!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
1:15 am
conrad at least has more heart than diaz or mCclouth. at least rick ankiel came through in the play offs. Go!!!! Braves!!!!
reckingball
October 28th, 2010
1:39 am
ABS MAN 12;24……………How many gold gloves did Excobar win? Excobar made plenty of errors, and a lot of stupid plays, himself. Why do you think that all of Excobar’s teammates gave a standing ovation to his replacement, upon Gonzo’s arrival? Apparently they had enough of his BS and bad attitude, also.
The worst that any reasonable person can say about the trade, is that it was nothing for nothing.
I think that the Braves got the better end of the deal.
reckingball
October 28th, 2010
1:50 am
Tired OF It @3:44………You must of really enjoyed watching Melky killing so many rallies, and fumbling around in the outfield.
They should nickname him Melky “Weak Grounder to Second” Cabrera. He played a big role in the Braves not winning the division.
I am glad that he is gone, I wish that the Braves had gotten rid of him before the season started.
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:18 am
maybe we can trade wren for a box of snickers candy bars.that would be better than any of his trades. let’s trade him….
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:25 am
i’m tired of our talent being traded away for nothing.Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:46 am
remember on major league 2 when pedro c.bacame a panzy, and the japanese guy told him he had no marbles! wren you have… no marbles…….no marbles……Go!!! Braves!!!!
NCBravesFan
October 28th, 2010
6:50 am
Dirty Jacket @ 9:05pm: yes, we needed a 1B, but we needed a starting pitcher much, much more. Here is the 2007 rotation –
Tim Hudson
John Smoltz
Chuck James
Buddy Carlyle
Kyle Davies
That team wasn’t going anywhere with the last three names on that list. It was a bad trade because Tex didn’t solve that core pitching problem.
The Braves didn’t seriously contend again until they finally addressed their pitching (2009-2010).
Tech Sucks
October 28th, 2010
6:50 am
It was an awful trade and everyone knew it at the time.
Biff Pocoroba Fan Club
October 28th, 2010
7:49 am
Jermaine Dye for Michael Tucker is the worst trade of all time. Worse than Len Barker or JD Drew.
Bill Stanfill
October 28th, 2010
8:18 am
Good overview of that trade, Mark.
Braves need to spend about 15-20 million more on free agents this year.. They are in a position now that they weren’t in in 2007–a couple of solid additions in the outfield could make this team a contender for the forseeable future.
Keep most of the young pitching.
Sign at least one good outfielder, (preferably two). If necessary, make a trade for another.
Sign petitions to get LM to sell the team to an ownership group made up of people who love baseball as much as they love profits.
candycorn
October 28th, 2010
8:28 am
Philly won the division that year w/ a ragtag rotation.
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
October 28th, 2010
8:34 am
agreed MB- in hindsight, braves would’ve been better off w/o texiera. even if we didn’t keep andrus or feliz, they could’ve been used as trade bait for a better OF or 1B 2 years ago.
Tron5000
October 28th, 2010
8:49 am
Oh. My. Goodness. Talk about beating a dead horse. Mark, when Neftali Feliz sets the all-time save record in 2024, I look forward to your article on the Mark Teixeira trade.
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
8:52 am
fire wren now tell me what player hes got for us that could start fo another team
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
8:54 am
need is for good everyday players not bench players
Kendawg
October 28th, 2010
8:57 am
Does anyone remember Leo Mazzone? How many division championships have the Braves won since he went to Baltimore?
jimmya
October 28th, 2010
9:00 am
and where is glavine smoltz and maddox
In Fredi I trust
October 28th, 2010
10:44 am
Its a moot point now. The Braves were trying at that time to make a run at the playoffs and couldn’t get it done. At that time, we got the better of the deal. Over the long haul, the Rangers did, and everyone knew that when the trade went down.
H_charles
October 28th, 2010
11:04 am
This trade was awful.
It’s only justifiable if the Braves had signed Tex
long term.
By comparison, look at how little the
Phillies gave up for Oswalt, a frontline starter under contract for the same length we had Tex for.
While we gave up 5 prospects (2 all-stars plus whatever Salty and Harrison later do).
Philly had to part with only one top prospect in Happ.
While hindsight is 20/20, when you throw that many top prospects in the deal you greatly increase the odds that some will prosper.
We should have done a deal for Tex. We should have been able to for 3 prospects however. That’s what makes it awful.
The ones who got away in Atlanta (and the one who got to New York) | The Lohud Yankees Blog
October 28th, 2010
11:49 am
[...] In New York, the Rangers’ run to the World Series has sparked second guessing of July’s near-trade for Cliff Lee. In Atlanta, it’s led to second guessing of the 2007 trade of Mark Teixeira. [...]
bvillebaron
October 28th, 2010
1:06 pm
Mark:
The Texeira trade with the Rangers was the worst in Atlanta Braves history. I said at the time that this wasn’t going to work because the core of the team that had led to 14 straight divsional titles, especially the pitching was no longer in place and Texeira was a very good player but not a difference maker. The team should have started the rebuilding at that time, not setting that process back by several years by trading away 5 prospects.
don
October 28th, 2010
1:16 pm
It is shocking to see that some still try to justify the Teixeira disaster. While most now agree that it was a terrible move, some of us did so at the time the trade was being discussed. It was dumb then. It is worse now.
Only a fool would still try to rationalize that deal.
I was crucified when I posted rather pointed statements about the stupidity of the trade prior to it being made and thereafter. All fell in line with getting Teixeira like a bunch of lemmings going off the cliff. Thus, I don’t feel any regret in saying “I told you so”. The fact is that the Rangers made fools of Schuerholz and his gopher, Wren. The trade was, and is, unconscionable.
don
October 28th, 2010
1:18 pm
I’m amused by the posters who say that Andrus is “average”. On the MLB Network they use a different word to describe him. That word is “superstar”.
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:28 pm
what made me sad,was david justice trade, and when wren traded mark texeria. that really pissed me off.he showed he wasn’t willing to build a team around one player.scott boras sucks too! even if wren does make some block buster trade. his mamgement has worn out already on me.keep our talent, or don’t trade at all. Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
2:37 pm
wren management is done with me. i love the braves, but will never give wren credit for anything for no on. Go!!! Braves!!!!
AZBravoFan
October 28th, 2010
3:02 pm
UGABugKiller:
Trading a 100mph throwing pitcher for a right fielder with a cash register where his heart should be is the worst single trade in Braves history, and I would put it up there in the top-5 worst of all time, next to Ruth-for-Money and the Smoltz trade.
You NEVER trade a pitcher who throws 100mph. Ever. And ESPECIALLY not for JD Drew.
Umm…do you remember Jose Capellan?
ward
October 28th, 2010
3:10 pm
no i don’t remember jose chapellan, but remember when bret butler was let go, and he went to the dogers, and once again that was a bad move by management. Go!!! Braves!!!!
ward
October 28th, 2010
3:13 pm
well see you guy’s later i feel your pain. gotta go to work!! Go!!! Braves!!!!
oilcan boyd
October 28th, 2010
3:56 pm
js was great at firesales with turner money. after turner left js was lost. once , the owner of the chattanooga lookouts JOE ENGLE known as the baron of the bushes trading a player for a turkey, but he only did it once. js has done it several times. the golleywhopper was the jd drew trade.
stump#5
October 28th, 2010
4:13 pm
JS wrote a book. BUILT TO WIN the braves hasn’t won anything since that book was wrote.
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:43 pm
closer (approximately 75-90 innings) is more important than how many of the starting spots on the rotation? At least 3 (C would have to be one of those 5, I would think) who pitch around 150-200+ innings).
That is an asinine statement. A run in the 9th is worth the same as any other inning.
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:44 pm
Put another way, if you were the Phillies would you rather try to replace Lidge or Oswalt?
droopydawg
October 28th, 2010
4:46 pm
Also, getting rid of Wainwright for captain hamstring was much, much worse than trading away Feliz and Andrus for someone who was a first-rate superstar (if but a rental).
stump#2
October 28th, 2010
4:54 pm
when i was a little boy my daddy took me to see the first game the braves ever played in atlanta. that was in 1966. i can barely remember it, but i will never ever forget JS trading wainwright for j.d.drew. funny thing happen. j.d. has his best year in the bigs ever with the braves. JS with balls of steel offered drew a thee year $25,000,000 contract. the dodgers offer was 52 mil. for three years. it’s a shame the dodgers didn’t hire JS. that way the BIG TEX deal might not have happen.