Dunta’s hit on Jackson: Scary, but was it against the rules?
Dunta Robinson was fined $50,000 by the NFL today, and his hit on DeSean Jackson was indeed terrifying. Both men stayed down for a while; both had to be helped to their respective locker rooms; both have been diagnosed with concussions. But now the question:
When did “terrifying” become the same as “illegal”?
The NFL announced today it will start suspending players for “egregious and elevated hits.” (This from Ray Anderson, the league’s director of football operations who was once a Falcon exec.)
On Monday, Anderson told Chris Mortensen of ESPN: “We can’t and won’t tolerate what we saw Sunday … These devastating hits and head shots with a very necessary higher standard of accountability … What we saw Sunday was disturbing. We’re talking about avoiding life-altering impacts.”
Thing is, Robinson’s hit wasn’t helmet-to-helmet. It was shoulder-pad-to-helmet. (It appeared helmet-to-helmet to everyone in the stadium, but replays indicated otherwise.) Robinson was penalized for hitting a defenseless receiver, which Jackson might not have been. He’d gotten his hands on the ball and taken a step and a half before Robinson slammed into him.
Understand: Nobody wants to see a guy’s life or his livelihood imperiled. But what exactly is the definition of “devastating”? Something that just looks bad? That makes the fans in the stands go “Ooh”? In a sport where the idea is to hit the other guy hard, is it possible to be penalized/suspended for hitting cleanly but too hard?
The NFL’s intent is noble. Its methodology will be unworkable. It is, lest we forget, the N-F-L. It’s not the National Flag Football League.
The Eagles’ reaction was instructive: Nobody was heard to call Robinson a headhunter or a taker of cheap shots. If anything, the Eagles were concerned about their man but also about the man who’d hit him. Two guys were playing hard. Too hard, apparently.
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420 comments Add your comment
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
5:16 pm
Jan- notice- he did lower his head and make contact with his helmet on the right shoulder- that’s what I said
wxwax
October 19th, 2010
5:20 pm
Dan, Bednarik’s hit on Gifford was a clothesline tackle to the head and neck.
A dirty play, in my book. A coward’s play, because Bednarik didn’t put himself at risk.
Dunta Robinson’s hit on Jackson was a hundred times more violent.
Don’t let “good old days” myths become your reality.
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
5:21 pm
fines from sunday for illegal hits according to espn
meriwether 50 k
harrison 75k
robinson 50k
Dan
October 19th, 2010
5:22 pm
This is going to lead to unequal officiating, aside from personal opinion here are the facts
Duntas hit was not helmet to helmet, both his feet and the receivers were on the ground as the hit was intitiated. the reciever was not defensless he had taken two steps after catching the ball (Todd from dacula that was a perfect pass btw). So what are they going to tell him don’t hit so hard next time? To call that illegal to a level of fining means the whole game has to change, and if thats what they want fine, but say it don’t make like he did something wrong
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
5:25 pm
Dan he lowered his head and slammed the helmet into the right shoulder of the runner.
Dan
October 19th, 2010
5:26 pm
Wxwax 100 times more violent huh (and actually it was across the collar bone and there shoulders collided) and you say I have the reality problem.
bg
October 19th, 2010
5:27 pm
The league is getting out of control. That was not a dirty hit. So now if a receiver drops a ball and gets hit, he can just lay down and wait for a flag. Idiotic calls like this one, Calvin Johnsons “no catch” earlier this year, and celebration penalties are making the officials and league look like idiots.
Why is it when a league starts to peak in popularity they lose their minds and shoot themselves in the foot? I completely quit watching the NBA years ago. I lost most intrest in the MLB after ‘94 (thanks Tom Glavin) and if the NFL doesn’t play next year, I’m done with them too.
The way this year is going, I’ll be done before then and I’ll bet I won’t be alone.
Alan
October 19th, 2010
5:27 pm
If the intent is to prevent concussions and neck injuries that could lead to paralysis (or death), then flag football is the answer. There is absolutely no way to completely prevent those types of injuries in tackle football.
The rise in those types of collisions that cause the violence of contact that we are seeing is an unprecedented increase in the size, strength and speed of the players. You can try to eliminate helmet to helmet collisions, and I think suspensions are the answer to that (suspensions that are equal in time to the amount of time lost by the injured player), but beyond that any effort to prevent concussions and neck injuries will ruin the game as we know it today.
Perhaps one answer is to have OC’s only send the bigger, heavier players (tight ends, fullbacks or eligible tackles) over the middle on crossing patterns or on screen passes. Maybe the DB’s and LB’s would think twice about leading with their helmets against those players. The real source of the problem is the horizontal passing game if you think about it. Of course these types of hits occur elsewhere, such as punt returns and interception returns. In those cases you could only penalize tacklers who lead with their helmets.
GTMustang
October 19th, 2010
5:31 pm
Dunta has been fined $50,000 for hitting too hard in a contact sport.
dawgfan
October 19th, 2010
5:31 pm
The NFL should ask Jackson what he thinks of the hit. If he remembers it. Anyone who has ever played, or even watched football, knows that if go over the middle there’s a chance you’ll get nailed! It was Kolbs fault for hanging him out to dry. Maybe they should flag the QB for the bad pass. This is a joke! Harrisons hits were much more malicious! He led with his head each time. There was no other contact other than that on his hits. Yet all we hear about is Dunta’s “illegal” hit.
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
5:42 pm
fines from sunday for illegal hits according to espn
meriwether 50 k
harrison 75k
robinson 50k
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
5:43 pm
Fox analyst Mike Pereira, the NFL’s vice president of officiating from 2004-’09, believes that Robinson was put in a tough spot.
“Robinson didn’t launch, but he did lower his head and made contact on what appeared to be on the [right] shoulder,” Pereira wrote on the website FoxSports.com. “Jackson is considered defenseless as the pass was incomplete and as a defender, Robinson is not allowed to lower his head and contact Jackson anywhere on his body.”
80sFalcon
October 19th, 2010
5:44 pm
I had to listen to the game on the radio this weekend and missed the hit… I just watched the game, saw the hit, and in my opinion it was clean. These guys are phenomenal athletes and know it’s a MANS game. I’m sure their contracts don’t say anything about ‘I won’t hit or get hit hard.” I know the league is trying to protect their “assets.” The quality of the product has diminished while the price continues to increase with lofty salary’s and ticket prices. This is the first season I didn’t renew my Falcons season tickets. I’d been a season ticket holder since 1975. I thought I would miss it, turns out it was a good move. No football in ‘11 and the league slowly turning this into the National Flag Football League, time to say good bye.
ex-BCS & ex-NFL
October 19th, 2010
5:45 pm
Hey Mike Jay, It’s quitting time, so I’m going to help you out with your use of language and your understanding of life in the NFL as I knew it. 1 naive – adj. simple and credulous, as a child. Lacking critical ability or analytical insight. You might want to check your posts before you publish. 2 – I never said I did not enjoy contact/collisions, but see above. Unlike you and others I have the ability to analyze and think critically, and if I knew then, what I know now, I might have “retired” before the NFL retired me. 3 – being an ex-player doesn’t make me special, or place me on a soap box, but I find it sad that people who never played the game (took risks) can sit around and comment on the the nature of those who have and refer to them as “sissies” or “weak”. 4 – I have never met Tommy Knobis or his kids, but I have had the pleasure of meeting and dining with Tommy Nobis on more than one occassion. I am aware of his physical condition. Unlike you, I didn’t ask him if he regrets anything in life. 5 – I am not embarassed to admit I was a marginal player at the NFL level. There were only 45 roster spots when I played, and no practice squad. I take no shame in being somewhere between 45-50 when I was released. ad regrets and he said “Hell no”. Though he was more than just a ST scrub so his viewpoint. 6 – Exactly what comments about MMA did I make? I simply said, go watch it if you want to see a blood sport. I don’t even have a problem with blood sports. I just think the NFL needs to decide what is most important. 7 – Exactly who are “most experts”? Experts rarely “agree”. And being “safer than boxing” isn’t exactly saying much. And for the record, most neurosurgeons agree, ALL brain damage is permanent (look up the word cumulative). 8 – I explained my comment to the lone hockey player who responded. The “contact” in hockey rarely involves spearing or helmet to helmet blows. The equipment used in hockey protects players, as opposed to a football helmet and shoulder pads, which allow football players to “hit” their opponents with more force.
MB
October 19th, 2010
6:02 pm
If Dunta would have slammed him with his head on that play he would have probally broken his neck. It’s clear that he led with his shoulder.
wxwax
October 19th, 2010
6:05 pm
So many tough guys here… tough, when it’s somebody else’s body and life on the line.
Delbert D.
October 19th, 2010
6:13 pm
Better equipment is needed. In the late ’50s and early ‘60 some teams (Duke and Oklahoma are two) used helmets that had a wide, thick strip of padding down the middle of the helmet. Testing and analysis later found that the collisions were worse, as the soft padding prolonged the initial impact, and the material grabbed rather than slipped on impact.
The inside of the helmets has improved tremendously since I played in high school. The Riddell helmets of the early ’60s had a 6-strap canvas web suspension, and it served only to distribute the force of the hit, with little shock absorption. We played the Oklahoma 5-4, which is today’s 3-4 against a 2 tight end alignment. Our job as defensive ends (outside LBs lined up across from the TEs) was to deliver a smashing blow with both heels of our hands to the top of the helmet of the TE, driving his head down toward the spine. It was intended to be hard enough to “disorient” the TE. That is illegal in all levels of football now.
Short of putting players in Buzz Lightyear suits, something has to be done to prevent repeated concussions and save lives.
Ramguy
October 19th, 2010
6:16 pm
It was a clean hit. No helmet to helmet. Now we put more control of the game to shirts…oh goody!
Navigator
October 19th, 2010
6:24 pm
Was it illegal? If Atlanta was making hits like Baltimore makes every week, it will always be illegal. If the hit was made by an Eagle player he wouldn’t have been flagged or fined. There is now, always been, and always will be a bias against Atlanta in the NFL. Remember how many sports casters have called Atlanta the worst sports city, and the worst fans. Really!!!???? Let’s think about this now, on a typical weekend UGA puts 90,000, Tech 50,000 and the Falcons 70,000. Now that sounds like a bunch of losers doesn’t it.
jan
October 19th, 2010
6:27 pm
YOU SAID in an earlier post I need to see some youtube on Dick Butkus hits and they were legal. Its seems you only watched a couple of them. Dick always picked people up and slung them to the ground, going to the head, etc.! Hell, I can show you some “petty, good hits” by Jack Tatum if I wanted to prove to you he was a good guy!…..lol
jan
October 19th, 2010
6:28 pm
wxwax…my last post was to you!!
extremus
October 19th, 2010
6:36 pm
My first thoughts when I saw the hit by Dunta Robinson were along the lines of “Boy, the defense really needed a big play like that to fire them up; they’ve been caught flat-footed up to now.” And then I watched with growing concern as both players still lay on the ground, Jackson seemingly twitching. That’s when I started praying for both of them that they weren’t seriously hurt.
We all love hard-hitting, fast, professional football, but seeing what I did there enables me to look at things from both sides of this debate. Life and a person’s health and well-being transcend (EASILY) a game, even one where so much money, effort, and emotion is expended. I’m all for the NFL trying their best to prevent serious injuries and working with the players to educate them so hopefully these things won’t happen.
That said, this is a full-contact, at times brutal sport, and one of the most dangerous plays in football is the pass to the middle of the field. A receiver knows the risks that reaching up and focusing on catching that ball entails…and the defenders know that if said receiver is able to catch the ball, that they’re looking at a potentially explosive play by their opponents. So the defenders do their best to try to disrupt the play or tackle the receiver before he gains a single step beyond the catch. All of this is understood; what Dunta Robinson did on that play is what every secondary player in this league is EXPECTED to do or they’re out of a job…he went in to break up the play. Unfortunately the impact knocked both him and Jackson out for the next few games at least, and the NFL (partially because of all the OTHER big hits that Sunday) felt they had to act for the sake of acting.
I honestly don’t know how you can reconcile the very nature of the NFL with the safety of receivers on these plays; I wish somebody could. Because the game suffers greatly either way things go here.
mars
October 19th, 2010
6:45 pm
Oh my! The hit was unfortunate. The only way it was avoidable was for Robinson to jump out of the receivers way and allow him to score (bad, bad Dunta, you bully). When the ball arrived, they were going in opposit directions (opossit? That don’t look right) at full speed and mere feet apart (although Dr. Warren is obviously still trying to figure out which one will arrive in Chicago first) and any attempt by Dunta to avoid him would have been grounds for dismissal. This is unfortunate. This is football. Blaming an innocent man for doing his job serves no purpose. The Wussification of America continues. All praise the Chosen One and Teachers Unions. Where do I sign up for emasculation?
mars
October 19th, 2010
6:56 pm
ex-BCS & ex-NFL guy, WTF? Tone down the homophobia, man! Someone might see your closet door ajar! Wouldn’t want the horse to get out of the barn right hear on the blog, would ya?
Albany229
October 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
It was a clean hit plain and simple. GO FALCONS!!!
SCFalcon
October 19th, 2010
7:14 pm
Sure glad NFL brass got that tough decision behind them. Now they can get back to Farves cell phone pics.
mars
October 19th, 2010
7:19 pm
ex-BCS & ex-NFL guy, as an NFL fan, I’ve been reading your comments specifically due to respecting the opinion of someone who has played with the Big Boys. However, I just can’t figure out where you’re coming from. You freely admit that this type of competitive aggression was a part of your game when you played, and bemoan that someone does not put an end to it. You also constantly state and restate that, although you were a bit player on the stage, that you are a former Big Leaguer lest anyone forget. And, of course, you can’t wait to take a dig at fans who didn’t play in the Bigs, without thought that perhaps they would have if they had won the genetic lottery like you. Keep in mind, some of these “jocksniffers” and such which disgust you so much put up a lot of cash that allowed you to make a pretty good living. It’s always good to have someone who ‘walked between the raindrops’ put the rest of us ‘pains in the @$$e$’ in our place.
Oh, I forgot to address your political ax you seem to enjoy grinding. In the current climate it is no wonder that someone who has seen the promised land, no matter how briefly, has the wherewithall to bring back to the common people the gifts of disdain and dismissal. Thanks for the reminder that “although we are all created equal, some are more equal than others”. Surely you heard that phrase back on the Farm at some point.
jim
October 19th, 2010
7:30 pm
Here is a problem that the NFL and fans are going to have to address -Science and medicine is exposing the incredible injuries and long term effects that football has on people. There are credible studies that prove that professional football players as a group have a shorter life expectancy. Science and medicine have demonstrated the negative effects on the spine and the brain that come from the hard hitting going on. And for those who talk about the “good old days” when guys really hit – the guys today are alot bigger, faster, and stronger. Back in the day, a 300 lb lineman was a physical freak. And linebackers were checking in at about 205 lbs. When you get the kind of mass in motion that you have today, it is a totally different game.
If we intend to keep professional football as a sport, there has got to be changes in the way it is played. There are a number of sports medicine types who have already come out in favor of doing away with the three point stance because of the impact on the spine and brain. And yes, I am a huge football fan and have loved the game for 50+ years but something is got to change. These hits are just not worth the results.
mars
October 19th, 2010
7:39 pm
And, of course, now I see in your last statement where you “find it sad that people who never played the game (took risks) can sit around and comment on the the nature of those who have”. Look, dude, I didn’t seek someone out to be offended by, but you make it far too easy. Being genetically gifted doesn’t make you a bad person, but being a Primadonna Jock most certainly does. “Took risks”? You were given “keys to the kingdom”. Just who do you think mostly make up that group of people that are NFL fans? Count me among those ex-jocks who never “took the risk” of being born bigger, stronger, and faster. Jeez, and to think I might have actually cheered for you at one time. I’d like to know who you are so that I will be reassured that it just isn’t so!
Freddy
October 19th, 2010
7:41 pm
NFL just needs to go to flag. It has turned into a PANSY game now. To many rules
mars
October 19th, 2010
7:49 pm
Now back to the topic. The hit was an unfortunate, and from where I sit every time I see it replayed unavoidable. Awful to see my guy or the other guy harmed. But then again they are taking that risk for millions of dollars. What would most of you do for a shot at only one million, much less the outrageous amounts available to these two? People kill and die for much, much less.
George
October 19th, 2010
7:58 pm
I expect better of you , Mr. Bradley. Reasonable people would agree that changes are in order.
tell it like it is
October 19th, 2010
8:01 pm
I believe the NFL is becoming a league of to many rules,and to big of a Monopoly.I’ve watched pro football sinces 1960 and saw a lot of big hits in that span,and a lot of rule changes.Pro football use to be fun to watch,but now so many rule changes are killing the game for me.You can’t touch the QB,you can’t touch a wide receiver,no head slaping by the lineman,no hard tackling by the defence without being fined.the NFL is becoming a flag football league!
Jamie
October 19th, 2010
8:13 pm
Violent but clean hit, plain and simple!
FootballFan
October 19th, 2010
8:14 pm
Typical dribble from a Falcon fan/reporter. If it was a Falcon’s receiver that took that hit then y’all would be screaming. Robinson was out to hurt someone, plain and simple. He dropped his head and delivered a hit. He’s lucky he wasn’t hurt worse. Blah Blah Blah from the Dirty Birds
ex-BCS & ex-NFL
October 19th, 2010
8:23 pm
mars, I hope you’re still with us.
1 – I am not homophobic, but I find it interesting that adult me are so enamored by the physical acts of other adult men, and so disappointed when anyone suggests that maybe the violence in the NFL needs to be checked. 2 – Here’s where I am coming from. How I played the game, or what the game was like in the 80’s is not the point. Players, coaches, fans and owners had barely one generation of NFL players to study in terms of the short-term and long-term effects of blows to the head. 3 – I have identified myself as a former college and pro player because I suspect the majority of bloggers who throw around words like “sissy” and “weak” or BEMOAN how the NFL is becoming femninine never played the game at eithe BCS or NFL level. I don’t begrdudge the players for playing hard, but I do find Harrison’s comments to be pathetic; just as I find those who would compare football to “war” to be juvenile. 4 – Again, re-read my posts. There are plenty if fans who I respect and who understand my position. I take “digs” at fans who sit on their couches and watch younge men cripple themselves, and then whine like babies when anyone suggests that maybe the NFL needs to take a closer look at the situation. 5 – I won no genetic lottery, I assure you. In fact, I am a proponent of the use of steroids and all PEDs in any professional sport. 6 – I certainly recognize the difference between fans who enjoy the game and pay money to see athletes compete. I attend Braves games and Thrashers games and I still visit my alma mater a couple times a year, but I don’t demand anything of any athlete, but to play hard. And if you don’t see how this is different, I cannot help you. I was out of the league by 1986. I can assure you, what little “cash” I earned is long gone. 7 – I don’t know what to say about your final comment. I was not the one who introduced the word “politica”. At least a half-dozen others referred to the NFL as being PC, or football suffering because of political correctness, and I simply felt the need to point out that politics does at times spill over to sports, but this is not one of those times, and in order to illustrate this, I cited a couple of instances. As far as your follow-up regarding “risks” – again, I don’t know what to tell you. I thought I made it clear (Christopher Reeves) that all athletes take risks. I took risks. What I don’t get it how some loser (and not all fans are losers) can sit on his a** like some Roman emporer and demand to be entertained in this manner. And I further find it pathetic that fools such as these would even dare voice an opinion about player safety. Listen, if some guy wants to question a call on 3rd down, or even if he thinks a player isn’t hustling, or whatever, then say; “I’ll take my money elsewhere” but to see what we saw this weekend at Rutgers, and the next day in the NFL and to just dismiss it as “football” is, as I said, pathetic on many different levels.
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
8:23 pm
mars It really doesn’t matter what we think since the NFL has seemingly decided that it is going to outlaw what it determines to be illegal hits with fines and suspensions, starting immediately.
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
8:24 pm
Jamie He got fined $50k for that clean hit.
Paddy O
October 19th, 2010
8:26 pm
Hey, ex-whatever, you profound piece of manure – the difference for you vick apologists is that both players knew the risk when they put the pads on. The dogs involved infighting, and if losing in the vick “business” were frequently tortured and killed in despicable ways. Are you really this grotesquely stupid that your measley intellect can not detect a difference? Please go blog at the liberal kindergarden, so the rest of us are not exposed to your profound imbecility.
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
8:29 pm
The hits by Meriwether and Harrison(2) were worse than that of Robinson in my opinion, Harrison is just a dirty player and needs to be suspended to get his attention. I suspect it will happen for him before very long.
Scary, but was it against the rules? – The Internet's #1 Football News Source Since 1997
October 19th, 2010
8:31 pm
[...] Dunta’s hit on Jackson: Scary, but was it against the rules? Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) The NFL’s intent is noble. Its methodology will be unworkable. It is, lest we forget, the NFL. It’s not the National Flag Football League. … http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2010/10/19/duntas-hit-on-jackson-scary-but-was-it-against-the... [...]
Jg
October 19th, 2010
8:33 pm
He was not defenseless. He saw Dunta coming. It was just a hard football hit that didn’t even warrant a flag.
Coach D
October 19th, 2010
8:35 pm
Total B.S. Robinson should appeal this. Head first, yes, he should have been fined, shoulder pad-no way.
reality
October 19th, 2010
8:38 pm
WHAT BULLSH*T,GREAT HIT, GREAT PLAY. ROCK ON DUNTA.
ex-BCS & ex-NFL
October 19th, 2010
8:38 pm
do-dah, Jamie, and Football Fan, Fan, first off, the word is drivel, not dribble. Dribble is what you do with a basketball, or the spittle that comes from a person’s mouth. Drivel is senseless talk. I have said all along, the Robinson hit was certainly clean. If anything, he demonstrated the proper technique – he led with his shoulder and not his helmet. I think the NFL is being unfair in putting the “undefended receiver” tag on the fine, and it is being “weak” for lumping all hits together as worthy of fines. I didn’t see the Harrison or Meriwether – Heap hits, but with video technology, the NFL can determine a helmet-to-helmet hit. If the League wants to give officials the power to throw flags on Sundays, so be it, but when a play is determined to be “legal” on the field, there should not be fines or suspensions. There is a huge difference between what Robinson did and a helmet-to-helmet hit, or spearing. And let’s face it, Robinson earns like $300,000.00 per week – $55,000.00 is probably less than he pays in taxes on that amount.
BubbaDaBaller
October 19th, 2010
8:48 pm
Defense wins Super Bowls, Offense puts butts in seats. NFL is appeasing “non football” oriented groups by playing up concerns(very recent turn of events) about head injuries and using this to increase Offense…No one likes defensive games, but for Baltimore and Pittsburgh…
do-dah do-dah
October 19th, 2010
9:00 pm
ex-BCS & ex-NFL The Meriwether and Harrison hits were all helmet to helmet with the defenders seeking to hit their opponents helmets with their own. They used their helmets as weapons to attack their opponents.
JSS
October 19th, 2010
9:01 pm
Rules unlike laws are subjective to whims of those who have power to enforce them… Ray Anderson has that power, wasting them complaining about the ruling is just that, a waste… Lesson learned… $50G training course…
Sports Review
October 19th, 2010
9:25 pm
[...] to suspend players for any dangerous or flagrant hit, especially those that involved a hit …Dunta's hit on Jackson: Scary, but was it against the rules?Atlanta Journal Constitution [...]
Pu$$IE$
October 19th, 2010
9:28 pm
Ahhhh the pussification of America.