Fredi Gonzalez, the only real choice? Not so fast (UPDATE)
UPDATE: The Braves have scheduled “a major announcement” for 2:15 p.m. today after Bobby Cox’s already scheduled valedictory at Turner Field. Sounds like Fredi will be introduced today, as opposed to tomorrow.
The last time the Braves held managerial news conferences on consecutive days — one to bid farewell, the next to say hello — it didn’t work out so well. They fired Joe Torre in the press lounge of the old stadium in October 1984, and the next day we were back to greet …
Eddie Haas.
Who lasted 121 games.
Yes, there’s a huge difference this time. Fredi Gonzalez has been a big-league manager; Haas never had. (And, after being canned by the Braves, never would again.) But the Braves back then were so certain Haas, who’d been their Class AAA manager, would be the man to improve on what Torre had started that I developed a kneejerk response to kneejerk promotions. I’m leery of Perfect Choice successions because they so rarely turn out to be.
Everyone in baseball was so convinced the Braves would anoint Gonzalez as Cox’s successor that it had to be either the worst-kept secret or the best-constructed ruse in the history of the world. Turns out it wasn’t the latter. And clearly the Braves have their reasons: He did meritorious work here before leaving to manage the Florida Marlins, who might just be unmanageable. That said …
He never quite lifted the Marlins to the playoffs — got them over .500 in both 2008 and 2009, though — and this year’s team was thought to be (at least by owner Jeffrey Loria) of playoff caliber. And that’s why Gonzalez was fired after 70 games. And before you say, “Well, Loria wouldn’t know a baseball from the back end of a buffalo … ” let’s consider that Loria did hoist the World Series trophy in 2003 after changing managers in midseason.
But my quibbling about Gonzalez has less to do with his Florida days than with his background: The Braves are essentially hiring from within, and after having the same manager from June 22, 1990 to Oct. 11, 2010, this was their chance to look outside and tap someone who wasn’t immersed in The Braves’ Way Of Doing Things. Other clubs are much heavier into statistical analysis. (Terry Pendleton, the hitting coach, was actually surprised earlier this season when I mentioned that his club led the league in on-base percentage.)
The Braves’ Way worked largely because players loved playing for Bobby Cox. I’m not sure they’ll love playing for Gonzalez quite so much. That’s not a knock on the new man. It’s simply to say that there is — or was; got to get used to using the past tense — only one No. 6.
Please understand: Fredi Gonzalez is not Eddie Haas, who was overmatched from Day 1. Fredi Gonzalez is a solid hire made for logical reasons — the Braves know him and like his way of doing business. But I was hoping for someone who wasn’t a Cox acolyte. I was hoping for someone like Jose Oquendo, who’s the third-base coach in St. Louis and who has apprenticed under Tony La Russa. And, apart from their love of stray animals, Cox and La Russa have as much in common as chalk and cheese.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
396 comments Add your comment
Kurt
October 13th, 2010
11:38 am
I think Fredi is an excellent choice. I also believe that Terry Pendleton is gone, not quite sure of a replacement yet. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Snitker go either. Eddie Perez may take his spot. I do feel that McDowell will stay though. Need to keep as much continuity as possible with the pitching staff.
Mark Bradley
October 13th, 2010
11:41 am
John, if they’re not going to spend big money, moneyball might be the way.
ATL
October 13th, 2010
11:42 am
sg10
Agree. It’s just that those type are pitchers are hard to come by. Can you imagine if Philly kep Lee like many said they could have. LOL
Gary O
October 13th, 2010
11:44 am
Mark,
Thanks for the response. One way in which I hope Fredi will be different, is for him to play more small ball.
I think Bobby favored the long ball, and as such, we did not do as much base stealing, hit and runs, etc, even after we no longer had the power.
One thing I give Bobby credit is for the squeeze, but other than that, we weren’t very aggressive on the paths.
Part of it is personnel, but part of it is Bobby (in my opinion).
DaveDawg96
October 13th, 2010
11:44 am
Cox was a great regular-season manager and deserves to be N.L. manager of the year this season for getting this rag-tag team to the playoffs.
That said, his style didn’t translate to the post-season, when it’s all about momentum and the “hot hand.” Craig Kimbrel shouldn’t have been pulled in Game 3. Aside from the walk and the lucky hit, he had the hot hand. But Cox pulled the lefty-righty pitching match-up thing, putting the lefty Dunn into the game (although the batter actually hits lefties better). Dunn was a dud and then Moylan wasn’t any better.
ATLien
October 13th, 2010
11:45 am
You make some really good points Mark. Although I like the “Braves way”, it isn’t perfect. Probably isn’t the “best way” either.
In other analysis, we are now middle of the pack in terms of payroll. The ownership (Liberty Media) is going to have to step it up if we want to be contenders on a continuous basis. That’s a much bigger issue than who the manager is.
Mark Bradley's Fan Club
October 13th, 2010
11:46 am
Yes, please play Moneyball. Or at least jsut take a deeper look at stats.
Scott W.
October 13th, 2010
11:46 am
Given your baseball knowledge Bradley, Gonzalez will surpass Cox in greatness.
Dawg26
October 13th, 2010
11:48 am
Would Bobby have benched an All-Star and the previous year’s batting champion (Hanley Ramirez) during the game AND for the follwing game? Absolutley not…..and that’s all I need to know.
Finally, someone who is not a “players coach”, but instead does right by the team. That in itself is a completely different direction….
WCJ
October 13th, 2010
11:49 am
Is Fredi Gonzales going to keep Chipper Jones at 3b or release him?, who going to play CF or RF? Will Fredi Gonzales do things his way or the braves way? Will he demand better players? MB
tareagle
October 13th, 2010
11:49 am
The Braves are willing to get players, I would go after Joe Torre, did a great job with what he had.
Billy Ray Valentine
October 13th, 2010
11:50 am
Hal Gaalema for pitching coach.
He knows what he’s doing. Smartest man I’ve ever been around. Great guy too!
Sammy
October 13th, 2010
11:51 am
I still don’t understand why Cox pulled Moylan in the 9th of Game 3 in favor of Farnsworth. They’re both righties and Moylan didn’t give up the run (Conrad did). Ultimately, it really didn’t matter b/c the game didn’t go to extra innings…but was Cox trying to run out of pitchers?
big ed
October 13th, 2010
11:52 am
I feared Fredi being the manager. I’m not against Fredi but I believe the Braves need new blood and a new outlook. That can still be accomplished if TP is not retained as the hitting coach and a couple of other coaching moves. RM needs to stay other than that they all can go. I’m just afraid that we will have a low tier playoff team that will never go far in the playoffs. New coaches and new players is a must!!!!!
J.T,
October 13th, 2010
11:52 am
T.P shouldn’t be blame for all the problems the Braves hitters had you don’t win 91 games by accident.I think you keep him give him some good players. The Braves over achieve this year we only have four players that could start for another team.
Glorydays
October 13th, 2010
11:54 am
I like this team bc we had a bunch of guys who worked the count rather than hacking (playing smart goes a long ways). I don’t believe the change had anything to do with TP. However, at this level I wonder what is it that makes a good hitting coach. Do they really listen? I wonder if it isn’t a VERY overrated coaching position. I would like the see the thoughts of others about this.
Billy Ray Valentine
October 13th, 2010
11:54 am
Mark,
Any word on what’s going to happen to Chino Cadahia?
Bob Pettit
October 13th, 2010
11:55 am
i think Wren moved fast because he was afraid of Bobby reconsidering…..
jimmya
October 13th, 2010
11:56 am
braves led in walking nothing else
Tommy Lasorda
October 13th, 2010
11:56 am
Call me.
Mark Bradley
October 13th, 2010
11:58 am
It’s hard to know what to make of hitting coaches, glorydays. They can teach all they want, but the guy has to do it. (Or not do it.)
reckingball
October 13th, 2010
11:59 am
Don@11:22……..Cox left the team “with potential Star shortstop for years to come, gone”
Do you mean that he will be a potential star for years to come, or that he may be a star oneday? It’s probably a potential star or would-be star, I don’t think he will ever achieve star status.
It’s funny that Escobar’s former Braves teammates, gave his replacement Gonzalez, a standing ovation when he walked into the clubhouse for the first time, after reporting for duty.
That says it all, about Excobar.
big ed
October 13th, 2010
11:59 am
When a relief pitcher is pitching you the exact same way 4 straight games and there are no adjustments then yes the hitting coach is to blame. Wilson pitched outside to every hitter he faced for 4 games and every Brave went up trying to pull the ball. At some point a good hitting coach can get thru to at less one hitter to go the other way.
Delbert D.
October 13th, 2010
12:00 pm
Lang Wi Yu for owner!
.
.
With all the new billionaires in China, surely there is one named Lang Wi Yu, and I know he’d love a mansion on Northside Drive.
DawgDad
October 13th, 2010
12:00 pm
I posted this on the Schultz thread: Hiring Gonzalez and hiring him quickly is a clear signal by the Braves they believe in how they run the organization and believe in the people in it. It’s a clear signal to the players, free agents, fans, MLB, and anyone else interested. They need to court certain players to stay put or sign on, and besides, if you believe in what you are doing why in the world would you upset the apple cart or let uncertainty linger?
give me a break
October 13th, 2010
12:02 pm
reckingball,
How did you like Gonzo not running on that play the other night?
Yeah, he’s a true team player all right.
Roger B
October 13th, 2010
12:05 pm
First of all, I’d like to say I do not have a problem with Fredi Gonzalez being hired as the Braves manager. I do have a problem with the Braves hiring him without conducting a formal search or going through a formal interview process. I would have liked to have seen some former Braves players at least granted interviews such as Terry Pendleton, Glenn Hubbard, and Eddie Perez on the current Braves coaching staff. Is Gonzalez going to keep the current coaching staff intact? If so, will there be any hard feelings or resentment from the coaches who felt they should have at least been granted consideration to become the next Braves manager? Also, I would have liked to have seen the Braves try to interview Dusty Baker a former Brave who’s contract with the Reds has expired, and also Brett Butler who’s managing in AAA I believe in the Diamondback organization. Let’s not forget the two most successful Braves managers were also players in the Braves organization, Joe Torre and Bobby Cox, Yes, Bobby Cox was a player in the Atlanta Braves minor league system and was traded in 1967 to the NY Yankees for Dale Roberts and Bob Tillman. Eddie Matthews was the only former Atlanta Brave player who was not successful as a Brave manager. Yes, he played in Atlanta after they first moved here from Milwaukee. Let it also be noted the Braves have not had success with managers they have hired who have coached or managed in their minor league system before such as Billy Hitchcock, Eddie Haus, and Bobby Wine. Also they have not had success hiring managers who were successful with other major league teams such as Clyde King, Dave Bristol, and Chuck Tanner. Chuck Tanner played for the Braves but only in Milwaukee so it doesn’t count and neither does his stint with the Atlanta Crackers. I think overall Fredi Gonzalez will be a good hire but you never know, and it’s always wise to remember your past or you’ll be doomed to repeat it. GO BRAVES!
tlg
October 13th, 2010
12:06 pm
DawgDad,
No appearances in the World Series since ‘99 and no NLCS appearances since ‘01 is why you would upset the apple cart.
CraZyTraDeMaN
October 13th, 2010
12:07 pm
Is Fredi Gonzales going to keep Chipper Jones at 3b or release him?
This isn’t the NFL. Contracts are guaranteed. That means if Chipper wants to play 2 more years then we must pay him in full for the next 2 years. Chipper will be the 3B in 2011 and most likely in 2012. If he is healthy it’s fine with me.
Mark Bradley
October 13th, 2010
12:09 pm
UPDATE: The Braves have scheduled “a major announcement” for 2:15 p.m. today — not tomorrow — after Bobby Cox’s already-scheduled valedictory.
Sounds like Fredi.
diesel gas
October 13th, 2010
12:10 pm
yeah, good point….NOT. Do you really think the Braves kept #6 around for 20+ years because they did not like what he had to offer? that being said (and I think we all know the answer), why would they all the sudden make a change to go in the other direction? #6 is not leaving, well, maybe the number but Cox is still going to be around the team and the organization so I’m not sure why you think they will go to someone who does not know the Braves way. If this (Fredi) does not work then yes, I say lets try for someone else who can lead the team…after all, there will never be another Bobby Cox in the game of Baseball and I don’t think anyone is expecting that but lets just stay away from managers like Ozzie Guillén.
nique
October 13th, 2010
12:12 pm
Mark, could you please post something about who’s coming off the books with salaries, so we can get an idea of how much $$$ the Bravos will have to play with this offseason? I’m assuming their payroll stays the same, alas.
Phil
October 13th, 2010
12:12 pm
“The Braves have scheduled “a major announcement” for 2:15 p.m. today — not tomorrow”
Wren is scared to death Bobby might change his mind about retiring. Trying to hurry up and get it done.
Delbert D.
October 13th, 2010
12:13 pm
Announcement on Fredi today? I thought “The King is dead, long live the King” is supposed to be said after the King is officially, uh, gone.
jimmya
October 13th, 2010
12:17 pm
id say give bobby wrens job for three months
DAVID
October 13th, 2010
12:18 pm
Will the Press conferences be streamed on Atl Braves.com? I work soon But i would love to watch when i get back from work.But still stunned about being eliminated the way we did and Bobby Cox Gone.It will all take some time to get over.Still hurtin
just facts
October 13th, 2010
12:20 pm
i agree totally with dawg dad. the braves obviously feel good about the direction they are headed. i do think there will be changes on the coaching staff. pendleton cant stay after he was passed over so quickly and there may be a couple of others to leave. if the braves can hang on, i dont even know who are free agents, and finally do something with the outfield, they will be good again next year.
what kind of contract situation is derrick lee in? you have to think the job is freeman’s unless he plays his way out of it in the spring.
10-1 lead after 3
October 13th, 2010
12:21 pm
Don’t really care who the manager is, as long as he (1) wins championships and not meaningless, watered down division titles, and (related to no (1)) (2) lets the starting pitchers pitch complete games.
By the way, I will continue to use the moniker “10-1 lead after 3″ until I’m convinced that the Braves’ culture has changed for the better.
Kentavo
October 13th, 2010
12:21 pm
I kinda thougth Wren might try to put his stamp on the Braves by going outside the box with the manager hiring, but I’m OK with Fredi (especially if he could Uggla in a Bravos uni).
J-man
October 13th, 2010
12:27 pm
Loria is one of the worst owners in baseball. The fact that the Marlins occasionally win a World Series has more to do with an excellent front office than anything the owners have done for them. Note that Loria ordered the dismantling of that 2003 winning team, so how smart is that?
Yes I’m sure Pendleton was very surprised that the Braves were leading the league in on base percentage since that is something he has never stressed. The Braves are very old school and they’re about as resistant as it comes about understanding new statistical evaluation methods. That is why they place no value on on base percentage.
Mark Bradley
October 13th, 2010
12:27 pm
I thought Frank W. might, too, Kentavo
Phil
October 13th, 2010
12:29 pm
“Don’t really care who the manager is, as long as he (1) wins championships and not meaningless, watered down division titles”
Agree 100%. But in Bradley’s mind, winning the Division is a greater accomplishment than winning the World Series. That’s what made Cox the “Greatest Manager of all time”.
What a distorted view of greatness.
sg10
October 13th, 2010
12:30 pm
ATL: The problem is that our division opponent has two of them. Of course, one of them is home-grown. Hope Hanson turns into those real postseason aces. He seems to have the stuff.
While marveling at the season that Halladay just had, I was thinking how cool it was with those impressive seasons that Maddux had in early 1990s but even he couldn’t step up in the play-offs…Smoltz is the closest thing we had to true post-season ace during those glory days..Note I am talking about post-season ace when it really matters and not the regular season when we had several..
BBrown
October 13th, 2010
12:31 pm
Perhaps Gonzalez first order of business next season should be to bench Alex Gonzalez for loafing and not running out his liner to shortstop in the 8th inning of this past game 4!! Every play has the potential for creating a run or the opportunity to get a run. He basically gave a free out at a critical time to SF.
Bangkapi Ajarn
October 13th, 2010
12:38 pm
Mark;
The first thing that struck me after reading both articles (pro and con Gonzalez) was this was an editor’s assignment – Mr. Schultz does the pro, and you do the con (creating boucoup comments, clicks, etc., as all sides of the issue will have something to complain about). Which begs the question –
aAssignment aside, devils advocate aside, do YOU think this is a good hire, or a bad hire, or a “should have waited, too hasty” hire
Phil
October 13th, 2010
12:39 pm
BBrown,
True about Gonzalez not running but he would have been out anyway. But your example is good. I don’t Fredi will put up with stuff like that. And I don’t think he will keep Chipper in the 3rd spot all year like Cox did either.
The last thing we need is another “Players Manager”!
JeanE
October 13th, 2010
12:41 pm
I think it’s a great choice to hire Fredi: why are wholesale changes necessary? He is not Bobby even if he “trained” under him, he’s his own person but I myself, like the classy way that the Braves do things. Now please keep MattE Diaz!!!
Gene
October 13th, 2010
12:42 pm
The fact that players loved playing for Cox was also his greatest weakness.
Phil
October 13th, 2010
12:46 pm
Wren is so worried Cox might change his mind about retiring, that the news conferenece with Fredi will take place on the Tarmac at the Atlanta Airport as soon as Fredi steps off the plane.
ccrider
October 13th, 2010
12:46 pm
jimmya: Let’s see since Frank Wren has been here he has acquired Jair Jurjjens for nobody who has made it to the majors, Omar Infante( You know the one that went to the All Star Game) for a relief pitcher not in the majorsHe traded Javier Vazquez to the Yankees for Mike Dunn, Melky Cabrea and if the Minor League experts are correct, a potential top of the rotation pitcher in Arrodys Vizcaino. He signed Troy Glaus, who led all Major League Players in RBI from mid May till the end of June, when he injured his knee and was unable to perform as well the rest of the season. He acquired Derrick Lee, Farnsworth, and Ankiel for players that except for Collins the left handed relief pitcher will either never make the majors or will have little impact. Those players helped the Braves get into the playoffs.
So, I would say he has done OK!