Fredi Gonzalez, the only real choice? Not so fast (UPDATE)
UPDATE: The Braves have scheduled “a major announcement” for 2:15 p.m. today after Bobby Cox’s already scheduled valedictory at Turner Field. Sounds like Fredi will be introduced today, as opposed to tomorrow.
The last time the Braves held managerial news conferences on consecutive days — one to bid farewell, the next to say hello — it didn’t work out so well. They fired Joe Torre in the press lounge of the old stadium in October 1984, and the next day we were back to greet …
Eddie Haas.
Who lasted 121 games.
Yes, there’s a huge difference this time. Fredi Gonzalez has been a big-league manager; Haas never had. (And, after being canned by the Braves, never would again.) But the Braves back then were so certain Haas, who’d been their Class AAA manager, would be the man to improve on what Torre had started that I developed a kneejerk response to kneejerk promotions. I’m leery of Perfect Choice successions because they so rarely turn out to be.
Everyone in baseball was so convinced the Braves would anoint Gonzalez as Cox’s successor that it had to be either the worst-kept secret or the best-constructed ruse in the history of the world. Turns out it wasn’t the latter. And clearly the Braves have their reasons: He did meritorious work here before leaving to manage the Florida Marlins, who might just be unmanageable. That said …
He never quite lifted the Marlins to the playoffs — got them over .500 in both 2008 and 2009, though — and this year’s team was thought to be (at least by owner Jeffrey Loria) of playoff caliber. And that’s why Gonzalez was fired after 70 games. And before you say, “Well, Loria wouldn’t know a baseball from the back end of a buffalo … ” let’s consider that Loria did hoist the World Series trophy in 2003 after changing managers in midseason.
But my quibbling about Gonzalez has less to do with his Florida days than with his background: The Braves are essentially hiring from within, and after having the same manager from June 22, 1990 to Oct. 11, 2010, this was their chance to look outside and tap someone who wasn’t immersed in The Braves’ Way Of Doing Things. Other clubs are much heavier into statistical analysis. (Terry Pendleton, the hitting coach, was actually surprised earlier this season when I mentioned that his club led the league in on-base percentage.)
The Braves’ Way worked largely because players loved playing for Bobby Cox. I’m not sure they’ll love playing for Gonzalez quite so much. That’s not a knock on the new man. It’s simply to say that there is — or was; got to get used to using the past tense — only one No. 6.
Please understand: Fredi Gonzalez is not Eddie Haas, who was overmatched from Day 1. Fredi Gonzalez is a solid hire made for logical reasons — the Braves know him and like his way of doing business. But I was hoping for someone who wasn’t a Cox acolyte. I was hoping for someone like Jose Oquendo, who’s the third-base coach in St. Louis and who has apprenticed under Tony La Russa. And, apart from their love of stray animals, Cox and La Russa have as much in common as chalk and cheese.
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396 comments Add your comment
extremus
October 13th, 2010
11:10 am
Mr. Bradley,
I too think it might not have hurt for the Braves to have further explored outside options; 2010 was the first year in a while that there wasn’t a sense of player complacency (professional yes, but unemotional and seemingly just “there” at times) in the dugout. A different hand might better balance that professionalism and talent with more passion and emotion, and there’s a better overall chance of that happening if it were an outside hire.
That said, 1) Fredi Gonzalez should make a very solid manager for the Braves, and hopefully for many years to come. One can never tell what a change at the manager position will bring; I often wonder what may have been had the Braves kept Torre around after 1984 rather than panicking from their 80-82 finish and replacing him with Haas. Turner was a lot more fickle it seems during his earlier years owning the Braves.
And more importantly, 2) Fredi Gonzalez IS the Braves’ manager now, so speculation doesn’t really matter at this point. All that any of us can do now is hope that things click and that the Braves of 2011 and beyond will continue to play at a high level and, hopefully, a World Championship level.
reckingball
October 13th, 2010
11:10 am
Yeah, I wouldn’t let Valentine rake my yard.
cantondawg
October 13th, 2010
11:10 am
It’s hard to argue hiring someone who was “Manager of the Year” in 2008.
sg10
October 13th, 2010
11:10 am
Mark,
There is some argument to be made if we should stir things up to make that jump to the next level. Sometimes we need to push people out of their comfort zone to perform better. Red Sox were not happy just competing under Grady Little and moved to Francona after which they reached the new level. Braves have competed past two seasons. More of the same might just help them continue to compete – rather than make that move to the next level like Phillies did in 2007 and 2008 after few years of competing. However, there is downside to all this. While stirring things too much, there is a risk of Braves become Pirates or Brewers – perennial losers. While things are moving in the right direction, it is worth exploring first if little bit of tinkering will help making that jump. If not then we can go to the stirring things up mode.
SRF
October 13th, 2010
11:11 am
I just have this bad feeling that Chipper will not be able to continue physically, and Heyward is going to be the next Jeff Francoeur – big flash and big hype but then just average after that.
Brownie
October 13th, 2010
11:11 am
I’ll echo most everyone’s comments that Fredi looks to be a very solid choice. Your only other viable options would have been to hire an older retread (risky short term fix) or go with someone’s bench coach or AAA manager (even riskier).
Fredi will do very well. The real pressure belongs to Frank Wren right now. He has, in my opinion done a great job with limited resources, and pasted together a playoff caliber lineup (with some great managing from Bobby and the players’ attitude of extra incentive with it being Cox’s last year) in 2010.
Looking at the playoff lineup the Braves had was frightening!! Lots of holes to fill in the off-season. First off, IF Chipper comes back, then Prado gets healthy and moves back to 2nd base. What to do with Omar?? Can’t take that bat or that hustle/attitude out of the lineup…..so where does he go? Left field? Shortstop and trade Alex G? Better be careful with that last move, because Chipper WILL get hurt and miss 40 games or so – then we’re right back to a paper thin lineup.
Wren HAS to find a big bat in the outfield – preferably LF (refer back to the earlier Omar potental scenario….he is NOT a big bat). We can NOT go into another season with Nate/Melky/Ankiel in CF!!!
We’re also losing Wagner and Saito, but I believe thos positions are already essentially filled with Kimbral and Venters. Once Medlin and JJ get healthy, our starting rotation will be strong as well.
I’m excited about ‘11 already, and Fredi only solidifies everything. One last thing, whether Chipper retires this year or next, he needs to be the hitting coach for this time going forward. TP can unsuccessfully teach players how not to hit somewhere else.
Skeezix
October 13th, 2010
11:12 am
I believe it’s a done deal–I’ll be shocked if it’s not Fredi. But of course I was shocked when that idiot Marlins owner fired Fredi. I suspect it probably had something to do with Fredi trying to address Hanley “the prima donna” Ramirez’s antics–and Hanley going crying boo hoo hoo to upper management. Yep, I fully expect to see Fredi in the Braves’ dugout next year.
Joe Tess Fish House
October 13th, 2010
11:12 am
Im with Brady on this one. Its dum to hire Gonzales because he has a loosing record.
Sam
October 13th, 2010
11:13 am
If Fredi rids the Braves of TP, then you know he was the right manager to pick.
Hirsutedawg
October 13th, 2010
11:13 am
This column brought to you by the same guy who thought Mark Fox was a bad hire for Georgia. As long as Fredi tears out the “managing the bullpen” page from the Bobby Cox playbook we’ll be fine.
bn
October 13th, 2010
11:13 am
NED YOST… must relate to the players?? experience??? from the system??? the best fix\t for ALL the players…respected as a leader..NED YOST
Andy
October 13th, 2010
11:14 am
Actually Joe Torre would be MY last choice. The guy has been succesful but it’s time for him to go too.
reckingball
October 13th, 2010
11:16 am
Joe FishHouse…….How about Terrel Owens, don’t you want him to be the new Braves manager.
Larry
October 13th, 2010
11:17 am
Mark.,
Spot on!
We DO NOT need a Bobby Cox disciple, clone, protégé, etc… We need to change entirely our offensive philosophy for more speed, contact hitting, and fundamentally sound players. How many games did we lose by one run and how many consectuive times have we been ousted in the first round? A little more speed, bunting skills, defense, and guys that do not flail away at balls in the dirt and over their heads and we, not San Francisco, would be playing the Phillies this week!
Besides, a mature, confident and professional Manager would not try to look cool and sexy by wearing a dorky looking goatee!
Kelley
October 13th, 2010
11:18 am
As a huge Bobby fan, I can finally today read or hear his name and not start to cry, I was hoping they would go with someone who mentored under Bobby. The players are used to Bobby, it is very difficult to get used to a new leader, much less one who is going to come in and change everything. I Iove the Braves Way, glad they are sticking with it.
G
October 13th, 2010
11:19 am
Mark… I am interested in how you would grade Frank Wren.
Don
October 13th, 2010
11:19 am
Mr. Bradley, this was a great article. You make very valid points. Although surprised by your contention that the new manager should be a complete departure from the Cox tradition, influence, and way of doing things; I think that you are exactly right. Your reference to Oquendo is also interesting.
brad kominsk
October 13th, 2010
11:19 am
Actually, I think Frank Wren does a better job than Schuerholz with much less payroll. Hopefully, Freddi will do just as well following a legendary figure.
Mark Bradley's Fan Club
October 13th, 2010
11:21 am
Marco–
If it’s true that Gonzalez eschews statistics in the same way that Bobby did, that is truly disappointing. For all the good things about Cox and his laurels– I think he’s probably the best regular season manager of all time– some of his decisions seemed always to be made based purely on baseball convention.
A perfect example: in game 3 of the recently finished division series, Bobby takes Kimbrell out (with 2 outs, two men on in the 9th) to put in lefty Mike Dunn to face the lefty Aubrey Huff. Sounds like a reasonable proposition, right? Bring in the lefty to face the lefty to get a better matchup. Only thing is– the statistics for Huff’s batting average showed that he was better against lefties than righties! So, convention, in this case, was wrong. And guess what happened? Huff got a big hit, and the Giants eventually pulled out a win. (You could almost see the joy in Huff’s eyes when Cox brought in the lefty– it was like Huff knew a secret that Cox didn’t. Note also that Cox did that again in game 4 against Huff with the same result). Everybody blamed Conrad for that loss, but I thought that was the key decision.
So, I hope it’s not true that Gonzalez will be as ignorant of statistics and match-ups as Bobby was, because that was always frustrating to me over the years that the Braves were in the playoffs.
Again, not trying to bust on Cox here; as I said, I think he’s the best regular season manager ever– which has to do with the big “plus” that Cox always brought to the clubhouse: his loyalty to his players and ability to motivate. But I agree with you that this was a chance to make a change to a different–if only slightly different–way to do things. I’m actually quite hopeful and optimistic that Fredi will do a good job.
Bob
October 13th, 2010
11:21 am
How will everyone feel about Fredi if he has to bench JH or one of the other phenoms next year for lack of hustle in his opinion? Sometimes, you get what you paid for.
Don
October 13th, 2010
11:22 am
Regardless of who the new manager is, the Braves are probably not going to be competitive for next year and perhaps for several years because Cox is leaving them with two of their Star young pitchers injured, with their potentil Star shortstop for years to come gone, and (for that matter) only three established regular major league quality position players.
kerryb
October 13th, 2010
11:22 am
I think it is a great hire. You don’t hand over an established major league organization to a guy who needs on the job training. When was the last time you heard the Yankees hand their team over to a guy who had not managed in the major leagues? If you can have a winning season with a team that trades away it’s top talent every year, then what could you do hear with the pitching that’s coming out of the minors and players like Heywood, Freeman, Prado, and McCann. I think this organization is heading in the right direction, you don’t need to take it off course just to do something different.
CraZyTraDeMaN
October 13th, 2010
11:22 am
Bobby Valentine would be my last choice.
Funny from someone who wants to pick fruit off the Larussa tree. He’s almost as much of a tool as Larussa.
Mr. Obvious
October 13th, 2010
11:22 am
First, I think FG is a good choice. I have only one concern. I thought I heard that Bobby Cox was staying on with the Braves in a consulting capacity. With FG being mentored by BC before moving to the Marlins, will he feel too constrained with BC roaming the halls at the Ted.
I guess this is another way of voicing MB’s concern – that FG will feel the need to do things the way BC would have done them.
The Real Brave
October 13th, 2010
11:22 am
Sorry to be late to the party.
What an idiot opinion, which is all it is.
I do defend your right to have an idiot opinion, however!
Katherine
October 13th, 2010
11:23 am
I think Mark makes some very good points……but I do wish Freddi the best of luck and hope the braves have a good season next year. The only way that happens, though, is for the organization to spend some money and the get rid of more then a few players.
kerryb
October 13th, 2010
11:23 am
Bob, do you really think he will have to bench Heyward for lack of hustle? Come on man.
Larvell Blanks
October 13th, 2010
11:24 am
You know what would make Fredi a great manager? A lineup like this, from 2003:
C Javy Lopez .328-43-109
1B Robert Fick .269-11-80
2B Marcus Giles .316-21-69
SS Rafael Furcal .292-15-61
3B Vinny Castilla .277-22-76
LF Chipper Jones .305-27-106
CF Andruw Jones .277-36-116
RF Gary Sheffield .330-39-132
Ah, for the days when our weak link was Robert Fick, who would have led the 2010 Braves in RBIs. (And no, I don’t blame Bobby because they stopped hitting in the playoffs).
extremus
October 13th, 2010
11:25 am
SRF,
I understand your points about Heyward and I think it’s part of why he tailed off so much this season. All of the ENORMOUS hype and media sensation surrounding him right from Spring Training; heck, they even had him and Hank Aaron do the first pitch ceremony on Opening Day; how’s THAT for pressure to live up to someone? And I know as sure as I’m sitting here that he’d been sitting there watching or listening to all of those games Francoeur was in, seeing his initial heroics followed by the observations that he swung at everything and then followed by his decline as MLB pitchers adjusted and subsequent fall from grace. I wonder if Heyward’s vaunted “patience” at the plate really had to do with not wanting to be the next Francoeur after all of these folks labeled him the next Hank Aaron? He got a talking-to early in the season to be more aggressive and took off for awhile, but after he came back from the thumb injury he reverted right back to form…and this time apparently nobody talked to him about it. So he basically ended the last half of the season as a singles/walks hitter who was vulnerable to good pitching inside.
Among other things, this is a huge reason I think Heyward (and the Braves in general) sorely need a different voice in the batting cage than Terry Pendleton. Those problems existed for an entire year and we fans could all se them plain as day; why didn’t they get better? Yes, Heyward needs to adjust and continue to mature as a hitter, but a lot of the blame falls on Pendleton for several LONG offensive funks Braves players got into in 2010 (Escobar suddenly got better in Toronto, Kelly Johnson suddenly got better in Arizona, and Nate McLouth suddenly did better after going down to Gwinnett…hmm, coincidence? I think not.
I think (and hope) Heyward will be fine and a great Braves player if he can just get a solid hitting coach.
Dirty Dawg
October 13th, 2010
11:25 am
Hey folks, Mark isn’t being Mr. Negative…he’s being Mr. Contrarian. A position these guys have to take to ‘get the fight started’. I mean there ain’t no ‘hits’ in being Mr. Agreerian.
I am surprised that you, Mark, didn’t happen to mention, or at least think of (you very well may have but it wouldn’t have supported your thesis) the fact that the same front office that ran off Joe Torre – probably the worst move ever in the history of the Atlanta version of the Braves – also hired Mr. Haas. And as for Larussa, you’re kidding, right? Can’t recall any ballplayer talking about how much they enjoyed playing for the jerk…the fans in St. Louis maybe, but not him. And it seems to me that we used to talk a lot about how good a job Atlanta did in ‘analyzing’ opposing teams and the resultant defensive positioning – what was that if not the use of statistics…are you talking about Billy Ball? Now that’s something that’s really worked out for Oakland – sure they be making a movie about it, but it’s a little late to be relevant.
So get on board here Mark, if it doesn’t work then we’ll find somebody else.
sg10
October 13th, 2010
11:26 am
This year’s playoffs showed that we don’t have a true ace that can put team on his back in the playoffs..These playoffs separated Cliff Lee, Lincecum, Halladay, Hamels with their complete game efforts from Hudson, Lowe, Price and others…We have three or four No.2 starters which is not a bad thing if our team can score few runs..
Skeezix
October 13th, 2010
11:26 am
I would like to see TP given a shot somewhere/sometime. I think he would make a good manager. I remember him as a solid leader when he played for the Redbirds and the Braves. He has been unfairly blamed for the Braves hitting woes–the truth is– Wren didn’t give him much to work with. TP, a former MVP/all star/gold glover, has vast post season experience and knows the art of hitting and the art of winning baseball games inside and out.
Mike Jay
October 13th, 2010
11:27 am
Fredi is a stop gap keep the boat afloat hire until Chipper is ready to become Chipper the Skipper. Just my theory anyhow.
Skeezix
October 13th, 2010
11:28 am
And please, no Bobby Valentine!
bjohndawg
October 13th, 2010
11:29 am
Chipper the skipper aint happening. I think it more like Chipper the great white buffalo hunter.
Freddie is a great hire. And yes I think TP gets too much blame and not enough credit. But I think Freddie was the right call.
Blackberry Cobbler
October 13th, 2010
11:29 am
Booby Cos wasn’t the best in-game tactician. He was, in fact, horrible. But for all the times I’ve lamented on Cox, he wasn’t the problem with this years team. The main problem was injuries and just not enough talent remaining.
OKBrave
October 13th, 2010
11:30 am
Things I hope:
Fredi G. takes some good characteristics from Bobby Cox like backing players and running a good clubhouse…
But also doesn’t manage a game just like Bobby Cox. Today’s game needs a person who isn’t sooooo predictable.
It is also time for the Braves players to not be coddled and start performing and not allow their manager to protect them.
If all of the above happens, I think Fredi will do just fine!
bascogcjs
October 13th, 2010
11:31 am
How the heck could that pompass Bobby Valentine get another Mgr. job?
And on another subject, am I the only one concerned about J.Heyward’s
ability to stay healthy?
He seems to be the type to get constant injuries, including the minors.
I’m of the belief he’s going to have a hard time ever playing 150 plus games because of nagging or more substantial problems.
Jack G.
October 13th, 2010
11:32 am
Hey —get off Bradleys back. He is expressing his opinion, and it is valid.
N8
October 13th, 2010
11:32 am
<strong.Mark, not sure whether you care or not, but this is one of the first times that I’m proud of you and agree with you.
On the surface, I’m fine with Fredi. Ultimately it comes down to talent on the field and hopefully he has enough differences than Cox in judging who should play and why. I don’t think he’ll embarrass himself or the organization, so that’s a good thing.
He knows Wren. Wren knows him. Obviously Bobby and JS are comfortable with him. So he shouldn’t have the issues he had in Florida if he wants to discipline somebody.
But that all being said, I was hoping for a non Cox understudy to be honest. It was a perfect time with the young core of this team to start fresh and new.
Good job not writing a puff piece on how perfect Fredi is and how much you love it.
Herschel Talker is lame
October 13th, 2010
11:33 am
Ah, yes–just like clockwork, Herschel Talker is back to bash Bobby. How are those UGA You Tube videos coming, Herschel? The Dawgs going to win it all this year? By the way, Walt Deptula says, “Hi.”
ATL
October 13th, 2010
11:34 am
sg10
Yep…..Huddy and Lowe only giving up two runs per start these past playoffs, isn’t ACE stuff. Guess they need to pitch no hitters, which I think Lowe had going for him unitl the 6th.
sg10
October 13th, 2010
11:34 am
bascogcjs: I agree it is a big concern to see Heyward getting injured and how it affects his batting… well, afterall he was compared with Cliff Floyd so may be the comparison extends to their injury prone bodies too
Sons of Rick Matula
October 13th, 2010
11:34 am
Fredi & Freddy — the Braves have their marketing pitch for 2011 readymade. The Braves will get a CF with some pop – I look for Matt Kemp, Colby Rasmus or Grady Sisemore to be with the Braves. The first two were not happy this year (nor were there managers happy with them). Sizemore might be available. The Braves have starting pitching and bullpen arms to deal (not to mention a slop bucket of “veterans” to send the other way.)
myra
October 13th, 2010
11:36 am
Maybe Fred can bring up some of the scouts that work for Marlins that find position players. That would help. Braves have pitching prospects galore, but not alot of hitters.
sg10
October 13th, 2010
11:37 am
ATL: The point I was making is that they had to be lifted after 6-7 innings when they were not as sharp…When you compare that with Halladay, Lincecum, Hamels and Lee who threw complete games while giving 0 or 1 run, it is not ‘Ace’ stuff from our guys.
ATL
October 13th, 2010
11:37 am
Sons of Rick Matula
You do know the Kemp said that baseball isn’t his priority, right?!?!?! Don’t think we need this diva on the team. He’s too busy keep up with his social life!
reckingball
October 13th, 2010
11:37 am
If Gonzalez doesn’t consider the righty-lefty thing to be the 1st commandment of baseball(and the absolute way to go), and will utilize statistical analysis into his game strategy (like MB was saying), I think that he will be a great manager.
Sometimes the Right vs. Left, is the wrong move, such as pulling righty Kimbrel and bringing in lefty Dunn to face lefty Huff(who hit leftys better, or benching McLouth(until his bat went cold), after he had came back from the farm with a red hot bat, so that a right handed bat would be in the batting order, or ever bringing in the Melk-dud because he could hit a weak gounder to second or short, from either side of the plate.
Steve
October 13th, 2010
11:38 am
Hey, if the Braves fans really want an exciting year in 2011, how about hiring Les(s) Miles away from LSU? I promise you that every game will be entertaining, in a perverse and painful way. Please???? Weak-hearted Tiger Fan
john
October 13th, 2010
11:38 am
So you want the Braves to play moneyball?