Fredi Gonzalez: The best choice as manager, or the easiest?
From one manager to another. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
“Good organizations don’t make changes just to make changes,” Fredi Gonzalez said. Then, scanning the room: “All the faces are the same.”
And that’s the part that worries me. Fredi Gonzalez is a good baseball man, but he’s a product of The Braves’ Way Of Doing Things. “This organization, the past 25 years, they win,” Gonzalez said Wednesday, but even Bobby Cox, the man Gonzalez succeeds, was moved to correct the new manager.
“We haven’t won as big as we’d have liked recently,” Cox said.
Over 14 completed seasons the Braves finished nowhere but first. Since 2005 they’ve made the playoffs once as a wild card. They haven’t won a playoff series since 2001, haven’t graced the World Series this millennium. The Braves we see now aren’t quite the Braves we beheld.
In many ways Gonzalez is the ideal person to follow Cox: He’s a former Braves’ third-base coach who still lives in Marietta and who happened to be out of work when this job came open. Frank Wren, the general manager, started serious talks with Gonzalez on July 2 at a cabin in Wedowee, Ala. One hundred three days later, Wren hired Gonzalez without having interviewed another candidate.
With a chance to hire the first manager from outside the organization since Chuck Tanner in October 1985, the Braves waited not two full days after being eliminated in the Division Series to unveil the new man, who really isn’t new at all. John Schuerholz, the team president, would surely cite this as another in a series of seamless Braves’ transitions. But it was Stan Kasten, who as Braves president hired Schuerholz as GM, who said: “If you’re going to make a change, make a change.”
Going Cox-to-Gonzalez is almost like promoting the chief assistant when the head coach finds a better job. It’s the thing to do, but it’s not always the wisest course. And continuity is the least of the Braves’ problems. If anything, this “great, grand organization” — Schuerholz again — suffers from its insularity.
Asked how he’d differ from Cox — if, say, he’d delve heavier into statistical analysis — Gonzalez said: ” I just joined those guys [meaning the Society for American Baseball Research, or Sabermeticians].” Then this: “I’ll use all the numbers you give me, but for me to sit here and say I’m always going to go by numbers, I’m not going to do that.”
What will Gonzalez trust? His “gut”, he said. And that’s fine: On some level, every decision is made at a visceral level. But it was Cox’s gut that persuaded him to stick with Derek Lowe one batter too long in the last game he ever managed. Other organizations, the Red Sox chief among them, have come to rely on data as a guide for the gut.
The Braves’ way has been old-fashioned. Indeed, hitting coach Terry Pendleton expressed surprise earlier this season when informed his club was leading the National League in on-base percentage. (This might help explain why Pendleton was reassigned to being the Braves’ first-base coach Wednesday.)
Wren had known since Sept. 23, 2009, that he’d have a managerial opening come 2010. Over the winter he compiled a list of candidates numbering in the teens. (Gonzalez headed the list even though he was employed by the Marlins.) Wren wound up hiring his No. 1 choice without ever speaking to Nos. 2, 3 or 4.
Maybe Gonzalez will work out. He’s an impressive guy whom Wren has known since before either man came to work for the Braves. Still, I can think of three others I’d have at least interviewed — Jose Oquendo, the Cardinals’ third-base coach; Scott Ullger, the Twins’ third-base coach; and Dave Martinez, the Rays’ bench coach — before deciding. But this GM, as we know, is forever in a hurry.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Braves at the major-league level haven’t exactly been cutting-edge in their approach. “I’m not going to come in here and change the whole culture,” Fredi Gonzalez said, but he’d better be ready to change some things. Because the Bobby Cox Method won’t work for anyone but Bobby Cox.
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243 comments Add your comment
STRETCH
October 13th, 2010
7:27 pm
Still like this team, just need a bat or two. But they are not gonna do much next season if Chipper is hurt again by May. Thats money wasted along with KK. I was really impressed with Lowe and how he came along after he got healthy.
They are going into next season with a ton of pitching. Just need some hitters!
Chpatt
October 13th, 2010
7:29 pm
Mark Bradley, this article is a dissapointment for one reason and one reason only:
This story and quote from Bobby Cox: Cox recalled the advice he gave Gonzalez when he first took the Florida managing job in 2007.
“You are who you are. You’ve got to be yourself,” the now-retired manager said. “Fredi’s got the right makeup to be a great manager. He has all the respect around baseball that you can get. I just want to be in the background. There’s always going to be new starts, and Fredi is getting a new start here.”
If Bobby Cox thinks that Fredi Gonzalez is the right person to step in as the new manager, then who are YOU to say that this could be a mistake or that it was a “KNEE JERK” decision???
NtheNo
October 13th, 2010
7:31 pm
Hope Fredi continues the tradition of nose pickin’ and head scratchin’.
Mickey Mantle
October 13th, 2010
7:47 pm
At least Bobby Cox was clean cut. Now we have a manager that looks like a slob. He’ll go fine with the hair on the face crowd of white trash that make up the players.
Burgess
October 13th, 2010
7:54 pm
Mark,
Can’t get Jeff to answer….does Hubbard have a job in the organization ?
gadawgs
October 13th, 2010
7:54 pm
Mark,
If they would not have hired Gonzalez you would have said they should have. Welcome home Fredi!! I love this hire and cannot wait until next year.
Ron Bagwell
October 13th, 2010
7:55 pm
Let me guess, you wanted Bobby V.?
Valdosta Tiger
October 13th, 2010
7:58 pm
Erica, you just summed it up!!!!!!!!!
scottc
October 13th, 2010
7:59 pm
Mark are you really quoting Stan Kasten??? Because one of the best managers to ever manage a baseball team has retired and we are forced to make a change, we should now make a “real change” (i.e. hire Paris Hilton) to manage the Braves?
That’s kind of ridiculous.
lanier
October 13th, 2010
7:59 pm
Why try to throw water on the fire. Time will tell thats all you needed to say. Your take means nothing anyway. Otherwise you would have a better job,
Looking Forward to Freddy
October 13th, 2010
8:01 pm
Mark,
I believe you are sorely mistaken about Gonzalez’s micro-management. The guy is way different from Bobby Cox except that like Bobby Cox he is also a great player’s manager.
I know many on here are going to bash me for this…but I think Fredi Gonzalez is better than Bobby Cox. He has everything Cox had, except that he can also micro-manage for 1 game in addition to macro-managing for 162 game. Cox’s problem is that he went for the big win instead of focusing on fundamentals. Fredi realizes that you can get the big win BY FOCUSING on the fundamentals. Fredi’s teams posted winning records while operating on the lowest budget in baseball. They created runs from every opportunity instead of waiting them them.
If you combine fundamentals and run manufacturing and have the pitching staff we do – you are going to win. I am seriously looking forward to getting back to consistent playoff teams with Fredi. Whats more I think we will go deeper into the playoffs because Fredi can micro-manage.
I also love what he did with Pendleton, he could have fired him because Pendleton was not succeeding at his job. Brilliant Fredi just moves him to another position and still manages to replace the hitting coach.
GREAT MOVES BRAVES!!
LETS GO CAPTURE SOME FLAGS!!!
Bill Hulsey
October 13th, 2010
8:02 pm
New manager Fredi Gonzalez says he won’t change too many things. 2 (Two) things he definitely needs to change. That all players run the base paths at full speed and maximum effort ala Pete Rose, even on walks, so they stay in the habit. And pitchers can and should shake off catchers at times-even rookie pitchers shaking off 6 year All Star veterans. Treat the batters like Bob Gibson did, especially with 1 (one) strike needed to win a playoff game. Especially when the batter has been unable to catch up to 5 (five) of your best pitches-that high nineties mph fastball and not some weak 50 mph slider or change up ala Mark Wohlers in 1996 WS. Get ‘Em Next Year Braves!
scottc
October 13th, 2010
8:04 pm
Mark, are yiou really quoting Stan Kasten to support your argument to hire somebody vastly different than bobby Cox because Stan says when you change, you should make a real change?????
seriously?
We were FORCED to make a change because a manager who, with his way of thinking and doing, managed a team VERY successfully. and now we should hire Paris Hilton???
That’s a ridiculous argument, given the Braves success with their current formula. I doubt even Stan Kasten would agree with you. Why dont you ask him and find out? he is always good for a quote or two,
Looking Forward to Freddies (both of them)
October 13th, 2010
8:16 pm
and Mark….
to answer the question posed in the title: Fredi Gonzalez is DEFINITELY THE BEST CHOICE. This one time however, the best choice also miraculously coincided with being the easiest choice due to Florida’s idiotic but wonderful (for us) decision to let him go.
NC State Nate
October 13th, 2010
8:17 pm
Bradley I think you are right on. This is a great question. It is definitely the easiest but who knows if it is the best? I honestly would have liked for the Braves to get someone with a different philosophy and shake things up a little. But the guys in the organization might know best, and hopefully Fredi is just the guy for the job.
Still, great question.
Burgess
October 13th, 2010
8:27 pm
I understand letting a new manager bring in his own people, but you’d think there would be a job for Hubbard somewhere in the organization. He’s a life long Brave.
Whopper Dawg
October 13th, 2010
8:27 pm
I think a good choice.
marko
October 13th, 2010
8:36 pm
Best choice or easy choice? this is too easy. Best choice.
Mark Bradley
October 13th, 2010
8:38 pm
As far as I know, Burgess, Glenn Hubbard and Chino Cadahia are out.
chris
October 13th, 2010
8:43 pm
Time will tell on this move but Fredi is younger and will push these players a bit more than Bobby hopefully. BObby will be missed for so many reasons simply because we’ve grown accustomed to his style for so long. Fredi’s style will take time for fans to adjust to. I just hope we’re not looking at a fall off like we had after we axed Torre in 1984. The bottom line is simple and it’s not Fredi G but Frank W. Frank has GOT to get some BATS into this lineup! We have to be better prepared with a bench that strikes fear into opponents and get some ball players not washed up wannabes we “hope” can repeat past years of glory like we did Glaus, Ankiel and others. We have the pitching nucleus to compete again for playoffs next year but if we don’t hit Fredi’s first year is going to suck in the biggest of ways. Good choice for mgr but we got to get this mgr some pieces to play with. I’m sad Glenn Hubbard was let go. Glenn has been with this club for many years as player and as coach and was professional in his approach to the game. I hope they find a place for him in the organization if it’s not as first base coach.
Burgess
October 13th, 2010
8:45 pm
Mark, would you agree that you’d think there would be a job somewhere in the organization….wether as a scout or in the minors for Hubby ?
Unless there’s something about Hubbard the public isn’t aware of .
Updated Blog Title
October 13th, 2010
8:45 pm
Fredi Gonzalez: The stupidest choice as manager, or the stupidest?
Cobby Box
October 13th, 2010
8:46 pm
http://pricezack.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/instant-replay-in-baseball-what-is-it-going-to-take/
perk
October 13th, 2010
8:48 pm
mark: who would you have hired?? he is the best pick NOW for the Braves. I am sorry to see Hubbard go. Glad he kept Pendleton.
Hobo
October 13th, 2010
8:49 pm
Do any of you who claim that Fredi Gonzalez managed teams steal a lot of bases have actual numbers to back this claim up, or are you just basing your claim on anecdotal evidence gained while watching the Braves play the Marlins 19 games a year?
MarkTwain
October 13th, 2010
8:56 pm
Go easy on Bradley. Its clear he lost the coin toss with Schultz to be the raving idiot. Nobody with any baseball brains wanted to write this article but someone had to otherwise you’d have immediately went looking for Buster Olney’s opinion right after reading Schultzie.
rilo
October 13th, 2010
9:03 pm
the change we need is ownership. Think if we would have gotten Johnny Damon at the beginning of the season. If you remember, we were really only about $2 Million away from getting him because he was willing to take a discount. However, ownership was unwilling to fork over a few extra million to solidify that position for one, possibly two years. Our problem is not in manager or even GM (give benefit of doubt here.) Bobby always got more out of players that are just average. I know he had his mistakes (leaving pitchers in too long) but we wouldn’t even be in the playoffs w/o Bobby.
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
9:10 pm
Mark, you keep saying “The Braves way of doing things”, as if you are criticizing, or insulting, their way of “doing things”. I remind you, that such way of “doing things” led us to 15 playoff appearances in the last 20 years, seventeen seasons over 500, and only two seasons under 500, soo.., what exactly is wrong with.. “The Braves way of doing things”.
The Braves exit in the playoffs this year had nothing to do with Bobby Cox, except that he left Lowe in one batter too long on Monday night. It had to do with one thing, injuries. What team could withstand all the injuries we had, season ending ones? The Phillies had injuries, but theirs were early in the season. Their key people came back for the pennant drive. We were missing key parts, and we still made the playoffs.
I guess the problem I have with how you keep saying “The Braves way of doing things”, is you make it out to be like such way of “doing things” led us to five, ten, fifteen, or twenty years out of the playoffs, and in last place. Such way of “doing things” gave us the numbers I stated at the beginning of my post, which is exactly my problem with what you are saying.
This team needs one more hitter, and then we will be in good shape. We won 91 games with a patchwork team this year. We may not be as talented as Philly, but, with one more hitter, we would be the next best thing. Next year, with one more hitter, and if we stay healthier than this year, we might well be staring down the Phillies in a classic NLCS. What will you then say about the “Braves way of doing things”?
StaceyJ
October 13th, 2010
9:20 pm
I think they’ve made a wonderful chose in picking Fredi.. For one, he knows the game well. He used to be with the Braves, so he knows the ropes.. He’s friends with Bobby..
And plus, alot of people respect him.. That is one good thing.. I’ve heard he’s all around good guy and the Marlins made a mistake by letting him go.
He’ll be more home in Atlanta… So, good bye Bobby, you’ll be very missed! But, Fredi welcome back as I should say to The Braves!
Leedawg
October 13th, 2010
9:34 pm
Bradley, you are truly the village idiot, and you make money being said idiot. Only in America! How about writing about the need for bats in 2/3 of the outfield. What about the 3rd base situation if Chippa doesn’t make it back, ’cause Omar is not the full time answer.
Smiling Jack
October 13th, 2010
9:53 pm
Why would anyone assume the Braves didn’t look any further than Fredi G? How do any of you know what the Braves did in their search for their next manager? Bradley, you certainly don’t know, neither do any of the other “know it alls” posting. Why would the Braves disclose any details of their search. Get a grip on reality people. They knew for a year a new manager would be needed. Do you think they sat idly by until today. They made a list, who is to say that no one else was contatced about the job. Who is to say, that they didn’t sit around talking about (considering) all that were on their list. What’s the big deal about interviewing 20 other candidates or even three other candidates. Why waste their time and money. Get real and give the man an opportunity from the “git go.” Go Braves…..win baseball games and everything will be fine. However, there will always be the detractors.
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
9:57 pm
My comments dont seem to be posting, so I’ll shorten them and try again.
Mark,. you keep saying “The Braves way of doing things”, like such is a bad thing. I remind you, the “Braves way of doing things” produced fifteen playoff appearances, seventeen seasons over 500, and only two under 500 seasons in 20 years, so how is the “Braves way of doing things”, as you say, a bad thing?
It’s difficult when a legend like Bobby leaves. The orginization obviously wanted to bring in someone who is familar with this team, and how things are run, and who the players would feel comfortable with. Think of a guy like Chipper, who played for Bobby for 16 years. Would he be most comfortable with “The Braves way of doing things”, or, with an outsider, who would tinker with success.
I can’t agree with you on this, sorry. It isnt as if the “Braves way of doing things” produced twenty straight years out of the playoffs. This was a good hiring, for many reasons. I have a feeling I’m going to turn out to be right.
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
9:58 pm
Sorry my previous comment did post. When I looked, it hadnt, but it did, so I ended up saying the same thing twice.
P. Bull Terrier
October 13th, 2010
10:08 pm
MitchC – You were right both times.
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
10:09 pm
Let me play devil’s advocate here for a second, and assume, for a minute, that I agreed with what Mark is saying.
Bobby retires.. yesterday. Wren, JS, et al, interview.. Bradley’s “several candidates”.. (Oquendo, et al). Gonzalez, meanwhile, is hired by.. the Mets, God Forbid, or someone else. One of Bradley’s candidates, who isnt familar with the “Braves way of doing things” Wren hires one of these guys, and in April, May, June, we are at 500. You dont think Bradley would write an article saying “Now why the heck didnt Wren or JS hire someone who was familar with the “Braves way of doing things”. This guy… (Bradley’s hypothetical new manager) doesnt know how the “Braves do things”.
With as much success as this orginization has had over most of the last 20 years, I would much rather hire someone familar with the “Braves way of doing things”, then not.
Smiling Jack
October 13th, 2010
10:12 pm
“The Braves way of doing things” has produced 20 years of entertaining great baseball. Highs and lows…wins and loses…some heartthrilling and others heartbreaking, but that’s baseball. That’s what we love. Braves have so much more than so many other teams. Some have never won anything since the 19th century. WOW! What a privileged city of fans. Writers are entitled to their opinions, as are posters, but its only entertainment, folks.
Michael"
October 13th, 2010
10:14 pm
How many times is MB ever on spot?
Nuff said.
rugburn
October 13th, 2010
10:14 pm
i think fredi is a good choice, maybe he will make HIS team hustle. bench them when they don’t and chipper won’t play enough to get hurt. naysayers want to complain that we hired a guy that just got fired. that idiot team fired girardi too.
Smiling Jack
October 13th, 2010
10:15 pm
Great posts Mitch. Thanks, maybe could you get the AJC to hire you in place of MB?
Bravesfan54
October 13th, 2010
10:16 pm
Mark,I simply don’t agree with you. If anything the Braves need continuity, but Bobby had too many “non-sabermetric” idiosynchrocies – which the new Freddi does not have. Seems to me he melds the best of the old with the new. (Never heard of those other guys you mentioned, and I doubt many of the team had either.) I credit your opinions, but not in this case. Freddi is BC, heavy, dude!
rugburn
October 13th, 2010
10:18 pm
smiling jack…that wouldn’t be the braves way. the braves way would be to continue running him out there past his prime, with no production.
Mr Charlie
October 13th, 2010
10:22 pm
We had to commit to Freddie or he would have taken another job, probably with the Cubs or Mets. . Why pick a bench coach with no managerial experience when you have a guy who has had success with a low payroll team?
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
10:24 pm
Another example of what I mean. This happened a long time ago, and is in the NBA, but it illistrates my point.
1991 to 1995: Pat Riley is coach of the Knicks, and during that time, they are the best defensive team in the league. Going deep into the playoffs, and once making the Finals.
Riley resigns, and the Knicks hire.. Don Nelson in 1995. He is a run and shoot em coach from the Western Conference, and the Knicks are a low scoring team. The team struggles, and Nelson resigns, after, I forget how many games.
Jeff Van Gundy, a long time Knicks assistant under Riley, is hired. Van Gundy was a guy familar with the “Knicks way of doing things” IE defense. The Knicks go on to have several successful seasons after that, as Van Gundy got them back to playing defense.
Wouldnt the Knicks have been better off hiring Van Gundy straight off? Were they better trying to be a run and shoot em team under Nelson?
The Knicks went back to what made them successful. In this case, the Braves tried to stay with what has made them successful.
Maybe it;s not the same situation, but people probably understand my point, right?
gcs
October 13th, 2010
10:30 pm
Mark, you have questioned this hire in two columns but I have yet to see your alternate suggestions.
I know it is a done deal and the Braves probably coulda shoulda interviewed a few more applicants but my question to you is: who would you have interviewed???
.
MitchC
October 13th, 2010
10:31 pm
Thanks, Jack. I’ll leave the sportswriting to Mark. I’m just simply a very interested, and sometimes too emotional, fan.
Another example: Again, basketball. Fans who follow the NBA, know the Knicks have been bad for years. I’m not a Knicks fan, I like the Hawks, even though I cant see their games.
The Knicks hire.. Mike D Antoni, a run em, shoot em, coach from Phoenix. What happens? They have no commitment to defense, and last year allowed 110 points per game. They stank, again. They may be somewhat better this year, with Staoudmaire, but.. I dont think they will ever be really good, until they get a couple of more good players, and get back to a commitment to defense, like they had under Riley.
The problem I have with what Mark is saying is that this is an orginzation that was successful for almost two decades, not two or three years. To tinker with success, is to me.. foolish. You continue success, to hopefully get more success.
Does anyone realize what kind of articles Mark is going to be writing, if the Braves launguish in third place come next summer? Its going to be a bunch of “You fans were wrong”, and “I told you so”. Hopefully, for the Braves sake, and the fans sake, the team can have success next year.
Dawg Whisperer
October 13th, 2010
10:41 pm
Mark, I take it that the complaint here is that other prospective candidates for the job were not seriously considered and, at the minimum, should have been interviewed. OK, I can’t argue that but I’m guessing it would have made little difference and I suspect Wren and Schuerholtz knew that. I’m going to give them a pass on this because the Braves management has earned it. If it’s the wrong decision, they will figure it out soon enough.
Michael"
October 13th, 2010
11:00 pm
Bottom line, Fredi was hired shortly after the Marlins let him go.
The rest is smoke and mirrors.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 13th, 2010
11:13 pm
Other organizations, the Red Sox chief among them, have come to rely on data as a guide for the gut.
They didn’t make the playoffs this year.
Hillbilly Deluxe
October 13th, 2010
11:18 pm
After all the years he’s put in the organization, Glenn Hubbard doesn’t even get offered a position in the minors?
jc_dawgs
October 13th, 2010
11:29 pm
Dawg4u is exactly right. I want Werth or Crwaford too…..but there is no way we get either of those guys because LM is just too darn cheap. Instead….they will do away with many of our underperformers this season and replace them with avg players. Its a roll of the dice that they may be half way descent.
The pitching sure looks good though but I think we have to hope that Heyward and F Freeman will really come through next year. Its a role of the dice when you are real cheap like LM.