Fredi Gonzalez: The best choice as manager, or the easiest?
From one manager to another. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
“Good organizations don’t make changes just to make changes,” Fredi Gonzalez said. Then, scanning the room: “All the faces are the same.”
And that’s the part that worries me. Fredi Gonzalez is a good baseball man, but he’s a product of The Braves’ Way Of Doing Things. “This organization, the past 25 years, they win,” Gonzalez said Wednesday, but even Bobby Cox, the man Gonzalez succeeds, was moved to correct the new manager.
“We haven’t won as big as we’d have liked recently,” Cox said.
Over 14 completed seasons the Braves finished nowhere but first. Since 2005 they’ve made the playoffs once as a wild card. They haven’t won a playoff series since 2001, haven’t graced the World Series this millennium. The Braves we see now aren’t quite the Braves we beheld.
In many ways Gonzalez is the ideal person to follow Cox: He’s a former Braves’ third-base coach who still lives in Marietta and who happened to be out of work when this job came open. Frank Wren, the general manager, started serious talks with Gonzalez on July 2 at a cabin in Wedowee, Ala. One hundred three days later, Wren hired Gonzalez without having interviewed another candidate.
With a chance to hire the first manager from outside the organization since Chuck Tanner in October 1985, the Braves waited not two full days after being eliminated in the Division Series to unveil the new man, who really isn’t new at all. John Schuerholz, the team president, would surely cite this as another in a series of seamless Braves’ transitions. But it was Stan Kasten, who as Braves president hired Schuerholz as GM, who said: “If you’re going to make a change, make a change.”
Going Cox-to-Gonzalez is almost like promoting the chief assistant when the head coach finds a better job. It’s the thing to do, but it’s not always the wisest course. And continuity is the least of the Braves’ problems. If anything, this “great, grand organization” — Schuerholz again — suffers from its insularity.
Asked how he’d differ from Cox — if, say, he’d delve heavier into statistical analysis — Gonzalez said: ” I just joined those guys [meaning the Society for American Baseball Research, or Sabermeticians].” Then this: “I’ll use all the numbers you give me, but for me to sit here and say I’m always going to go by numbers, I’m not going to do that.”
What will Gonzalez trust? His “gut”, he said. And that’s fine: On some level, every decision is made at a visceral level. But it was Cox’s gut that persuaded him to stick with Derek Lowe one batter too long in the last game he ever managed. Other organizations, the Red Sox chief among them, have come to rely on data as a guide for the gut.
The Braves’ way has been old-fashioned. Indeed, hitting coach Terry Pendleton expressed surprise earlier this season when informed his club was leading the National League in on-base percentage. (This might help explain why Pendleton was reassigned to being the Braves’ first-base coach Wednesday.)
Wren had known since Sept. 23, 2009, that he’d have a managerial opening come 2010. Over the winter he compiled a list of candidates numbering in the teens. (Gonzalez headed the list even though he was employed by the Marlins.) Wren wound up hiring his No. 1 choice without ever speaking to Nos. 2, 3 or 4.
Maybe Gonzalez will work out. He’s an impressive guy whom Wren has known since before either man came to work for the Braves. Still, I can think of three others I’d have at least interviewed — Jose Oquendo, the Cardinals’ third-base coach; Scott Ullger, the Twins’ third-base coach; and Dave Martinez, the Rays’ bench coach — before deciding. But this GM, as we know, is forever in a hurry.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Braves at the major-league level haven’t exactly been cutting-edge in their approach. “I’m not going to come in here and change the whole culture,” Fredi Gonzalez said, but he’d better be ready to change some things. Because the Bobby Cox Method won’t work for anyone but Bobby Cox.
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243 comments Add your comment
Coach (2011 or Bust)
October 13th, 2010
6:05 pm
Need Power Hiiters???????????????????
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. The Toronto Blue Jays pounded out 257 HR’s which led all ML teams, and they went nowhere fast.
Baseball is about pitching, defense, power and speed. Our Braves have the first part in spades. The rest has been sorely lacking.
UGABugKiller
October 13th, 2010
6:05 pm
Steven, I watch games plenty. And you don’t have to be a speedster to steal a base. You have to have good base running ability, good instincts on reading the pitcher.
Prado and Infante have all of that. Canseco was never “fast,” by anyone’s standard. What he had was instincts on when to run and a manager with great instincts on when to send him. And because of that he was MLBs first 40-40 guy.
If you send Prado and Infante 35 times in a season, at the right time, on the right pitcher, they’ll get you between 20 and 25 steals.
Now I have to ask you, do YOU watch much BASEBALL, or do you just assume, as many Braves fans must after watching BobbyBall the last 20 years, that you HAVE to be a speedy guy to steal bases.
If Jeter can steal a base, so can Prado and Infante.
You double-steal. You pick a count that’s 1-2 or 0-2, where the pitcher is not likely to throw a strike.
There are ways, dude. Maybe you should spend some time watching OTHER baseball teams that aren’t the Braves.
D-bag.
Steven
October 13th, 2010
6:10 pm
@ Keith — Infante has 43 career steals in almost 800 games. He has been caught stealing 21 times. He will never steal 25 bases in a season. And the Braves shouldn’t try to force it unless you have a guy that is a legit SB threat. You can’t just run to say you did. If you watch the Braves consistently you will see Infante has maybe slightly above average speed. He isn’t a burner nor does he get great jumps.
In comparison, Carl Crawford stole 47 bases and caught 10 times this season. Those are the kind of guys that you give the green light to and help change games.
todd
October 13th, 2010
6:11 pm
I say try Gonzalez for 2 years – if he doesn’t work out find someone who will. I believe he really was the best candidate available at this time.
Bobby
October 13th, 2010
6:11 pm
UGABugKiller, see Vlad Guerrero for case in point. Good post
bonsai bill
October 13th, 2010
6:12 pm
Mark, any word on how Chipper has reacted to this appointment? He has been known to speak his mind and not hold back…
southgabrave
October 13th, 2010
6:12 pm
Here is hoping that the Braves add a couple good outfielders and some speed. Speed never goes in a slump. I know FG will use the speed he has unlike Bobby. Make this team more exciting to watch and they may draw a few more fans. Would like to see a true leadoff (DeJesus)in center and a power bat with a little speed in left (Colby Ramus). Wishfull thinking I know!
Warren Haynes For President
October 13th, 2010
6:15 pm
I take comfort in the fact that you are wrong way more than you are right. The Braves did not struggle over the last 1/2 decade because the cultural is somehow flawed. They struggled because of the roster of players they were trotting out.
Steven
October 13th, 2010
6:15 pm
UGABugKiller — my last post with actual stats should help prove my point.
You don’t have to have speedsters to steal a base now and then, I agree. But you need a speedster to steal a high number of bases like you would like them to do. They just don’t have that speed.
o-me
October 13th, 2010
6:16 pm
Welcome Fredi. Hate to lose Hubby..He is 1st class player, coach and man.
TP needs to be gone…period.
Hire GREG WALKER hitting coach from White Sox.
Daniel
October 13th, 2010
6:18 pm
How would anyone know if Infante or Prado could steal a base or not … they were never sent! … how can you steal if your never sent!
Sarge
October 13th, 2010
6:19 pm
MB,
Just curious … with the other three you suggest, who would you have chosen? You are paid for your opinion and I respect it. I just wonder who your first choice would be?
Thanks for all of your good work.
Sarge
o-me
October 13th, 2010
6:19 pm
Chipper said He was happy with FG.
Now go after Carl Crawford.
1911A1
October 13th, 2010
6:20 pm
If you want to understand why the Braves haven’t been winning in recent years like they were during the glory years, look no further than the ownership. Liberty Media has provided next to no support (financial or otherwise.) Quite to the contrary of your point, Mark, “The Braves way of doing things” is the reason they have done as well as they have, despite the lack of ownership support. If the Braves had an owner as committed to win as Arthur Blank is with the Falcons, there would have been more Series rings handed out.
Tweets that mention Fredi Gonzalez: The best choice as manager, or the easiest? | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
October 13th, 2010
6:22 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, ReidAdair. ReidAdair said: RT @MarkBradleyAJC: Fredi Gonzalez: The best choice as #braves manager or just the easiest? http://bit.ly/czUd4V < – Best. [...]
Asheville Dawg
October 13th, 2010
6:24 pm
Would you evaluate the Wren era? While he did okay this year, his signing of Lowe and Kawakmi (sp) give him a grade of D. Two years of Gonzalez should decide if Wren needs to go.
Keith
October 13th, 2010
6:25 pm
you have got to be kidding Mark…If the Braves have hired anyone else you would be fuming…You know this to be true..Fredi is the right choice and will prove it. Look what he did in FL. with alot less talent then we got here in the ATL.
Browncoat
October 13th, 2010
6:25 pm
Wow, Mark. Maybe your worst analysis ever. Did you pick those three names out of a hat? And why would the Braves have hired those three over Freddi. Organizations, not just the Braves, would prefer a known quanity, particularly a person they covet, over an outsider.
And personally, I’ll take a shot hiring a former manager of the year who was fired becuase he disciplined a player for not hustling. Sounds like the right choice for the Braves, even if it doesn’t work out in a few years.
raymond
October 13th, 2010
6:26 pm
Good ole boy decision. Needed someone totally distant from the current Braves organization.
Stephen Thomas
October 13th, 2010
6:26 pm
Bradley, if we’re going to be run like the Red Sox can we also have their budget? Moneyball with a 140+ payroll. That’s the only real number that matters.
This team was run too long by one man to go outside and ‘make a change.’ Fredi had success in Flordia, worked under Cox, etc. It was the right move. The real question is will this team ever be allowed to spend on a high quality position free agent again. I worry less about Fredi than I do Wren and how he’s going to remake that outfield.
Idiots...all of you
October 13th, 2010
6:26 pm
Yeah Mark, the last 20 years of Braves baseball have sucked. No reason to stick with that formula, it sucks. Consistency in approach that leads to predictable outcomes (Pittsburg Steelers, New York Yankees, New England Patriots, et al) are sooo boring. Change for change’s sake, yeah thats the ticket!!!! Let’s roll back the clock and aspire to be the Braves of the 70s or mid-to-late 80s, yeah….let’s do that!!
Brilliant.
E
October 13th, 2010
6:29 pm
I don’t care if they would have hired “Jesus” as the coach the Brave want win a chamionship until they spend money on better talent and stop thinking they are tricking the fans by throwing washed up or average on the field and that’s way they don’t get great turnouts on a consistent basis. First of all they need new ownership. Ted Turner where are you we need to back these owners are CHEAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!
JacketFan
October 13th, 2010
6:30 pm
Yeah, Mark – who was your choice? I’m curious to find out … (this should be good)
Braves Name Fredi Gonzalez New Manager » OTB Sports
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[...] Mark Bradley disagrees, figuring the Braves should have at least interviewed some assistants from clubs that [...]
Brent
October 13th, 2010
6:31 pm
Mark, I have agreed with you most of the time this season, but you are way off base this time. The Braves just need to reload, not rebuild. Gonzalez is far and away the best choice. Just as in politics, change is not always better.
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October 13th, 2010
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[...] Mark Bradley disagrees, figuring the Braves should have at least interviewed some assistants from clubs that [...]
bobby cox's sox
October 13th, 2010
6:33 pm
Methinks he will slowly change a lot of the culture.Much more than he lets on now.Of course if ownership plans to cut payroll to Marlins’ level,he’s doomed.Hopefully he will be a great judge of talent and potential and Wren can trick a trade or two.
bwash21
October 13th, 2010
6:34 pm
I’m really curious why Hubbard was let go. He seems to be a Braves guy who works hard. Is there more to it than that?
dawg4u
October 13th, 2010
6:35 pm
Frank Wren has his hands tied working with this Liberty Media group. Why do you thing we’re getting guys like Glaus, Ankiel, Melky and Farnsworth? I agree we need a speed guy and two power hitters but these guys don’t grow on trees and if they are available they are going to a cash rich team who can pay far and above what the Braves can. Wren has to add pieces within these tight budget constraints and just hope that it will work out. Sometimes it will and sometimes not. The ‘93 season when we added McGriff is a distant memory. At least we have a pretty good bullpen and starting pitching. We need to add some bats but it will not be a superstar player but more of the same like this past year and just hope that these reclamation projects work out.
Bama Brave
October 13th, 2010
6:36 pm
lowe is not a bad pitcher but hes not worth what we gave him.
Rupert
October 13th, 2010
6:41 pm
A few points Mr. Bradley,
I understand your point, but I think a drastic change would not fit with Wren being the GM, JS being President, McGirk being CEO, etc. I completely agree that winning has not been what it was, but I don’t think putting a square peg in a round hole at this point, just for the sake of something being different is prudent.
Furthermore, I think your candidates are unknowns. They might be great, they might fall on their face. Why should an organization take a chance like that when someone who has proven they can at least compete with the league’s lowest payroll is out there?
Bottom line is that you are a contrarion sir. It makes no sense for the organization to shake things up with someone no one knows or gets a long unless they are cleaning house (removing Wren etc.) You simply wrote this article so that the AJC could have a negative perspective on the hiring to go with what will be mostly positive reviews. Fine. I think you cheapen yourself throwing stuff like this out there, and making it seem legitimate.
T-Bone
October 13th, 2010
6:43 pm
Mark,
I’ve got to call you out on this one. You have always been Bobby Cox’s biggest chearleader. Some would say that Bobby didn’t win enough World Series Championships, but you would (correctly) respond that a break here or there and we would have a few more than the one, that you don’t win as much as Bobby did without doing something right.
Well, you can’t change your story now. The Braves Way worked for quite a while, providing one winning season after another. In other words, I don’t remember you yesterday criticizing Bobby for leaving Derek Lowe in one batter too long. To do so today seems a bit disingenuous.
Certainly Fredi will do some things differently than Bobby. Personally I hope that he plays more small ball–there were several times in this last series when we had a runner on second with no outs and could not get him home. He won’t be a Cox-clone. But to criticize Fredi (and Frank Wren) because he is too much of a “Brave” is hypocritical, given that you have praised the Braves Way for so long.
Lets go and root in 2011
October 13th, 2010
6:45 pm
Great coach to be here now and TP no longer Hittin coach also….why be 1st heshould been sent packin to.Time waits see what owners do accordin to i heard they planin let wren get updated alot…Ha Ha he resign ankiel n Mccloud..and how about gettin crawford n there 3rd baseman n outfielder i forget name darn it..and shout to Texas for Makin there first ever win in series..will play yankees this friday at 8pm for alcs n let people know cl washington use be a oakland n braves player frenchy in postseason laughin at bobby cox n wren now and remember Texas team just about all braves system farm hands we trade to them and Pitchers to.
UGABugKiller
October 13th, 2010
6:48 pm
Asheville Dawg, you do a discredit to your awesome town by saying such things.
You’re going to be another of the unwashed masses who continue to wrongly discredit Wren for signing Lowe?
Lowe is the ONLY reason the Braves even made the Wild Card this year. The ONLY reason. His performance in September, while the team crumbled around him was masterful.
And his performance IN the postseason was even more than masterful. It was artful.
It’s not Lowe’s fault Cox took Kimbrell out of the game one out away from a sure game 3 win.
It’s not Lowe’s fault the offense couldn’t score more runs for him.
He did everything asked of him and then some. He earned every bit of his 15 million a year in September and October, where you’re SUPPOSED to earn it.
If Maddux and Glavine had pitched more like Lowe in October, maybe the Braves could have overcome Cox’s laissez-faire management style and won more than one ring.
Dude, many Red Sox fans I know bemoan the fact that the Sox let Lowe leave after the WS in 2004, and claim the Sox could’ve won four straight World Series had they kept him, because he starts real slow, it takes him time to get the feel for his sinker, and then once he gets that pitch going, he is MONEY in September and October.
I forget that sometimes watching Lowe, and get nervous. But it’s true. He’s money late in the season. It really does take him a long time to find his sinker.
UGASlobberknocker
October 13th, 2010
6:48 pm
Both. I don’t think anyone on the current staff would be good, I don’t like any of the re-treads (like Valentine)..and why go with an unknown coach who has never nabaged. Hiring a proven manager who knows the organization seems like the wise thing to do to me.
Mark, if you don’t agree, who would be your choice?
jfreak13713
October 13th, 2010
6:51 pm
Nobody knows how Fredi will do but I think most assume he’ll do fine. However, I have to agree that at least looking at others guys would have been wise unless they feared Fredi “might” jump to another team while they looked around some?? What I do like about Fredi is that he seemed to get a lot out of his players while in Florida and his situation will be similar here. There is young talent on this team with Heyward, Freeman, Prado and Infante and a couple old vets in Chipper and to a lesser degree Big Mac but there won’t be much money to spend! Fredi has proven that he can take good young talent and get the most out of it with a limited budget. The other guys mentioned in this article can’t say that?? In the end I think Fredi will prove to be the right guy for “this” situation. Will get any better results than Bobby did this year? Not unless upper management decides to add a bat or two!
jerry
October 13th, 2010
6:52 pm
I appreciate Bradley’s point of view. We don’t need a sports media that just rubber stamps every thing these sports team do. Questions needed to be raised and Bradley raised them. Enough rah rah.
F-105 Thunderchief
October 13th, 2010
6:54 pm
This is not a kneejerk decision. They’ve had since June to mull it over. Gonzalez proved himself a good manager. That he knows and loves the Braves IS NOT a negative. I suspect you are in a huge minority, except maybe among the Cox haters you and I fail to understand. The Braves way before Cox and Schuerholz were put together was not good. Since then, it has been. I’m happy to give Gonzalez the benefit of the doubt, and I think his association with the organization and with “the best manager we’ll ever see,” is a positive, not a negative.
jfreak13713
October 13th, 2010
6:56 pm
And enough said about Lowe! He is well worth the money spent period!! They guy started slow and then developed a bad elbo. He pitched great the last month of the seaon and was awesome in the playoffs. Well worth it in my opinion …. Oh, and what did we spend for Glaus? A bargin since he saved our season! McLouth, Melky, and Ankiel not so much but nobodys perfect right!
JASon
October 13th, 2010
6:59 pm
The point is, Mark has already written an article questioning this decision. These columnists are so wishy washy about their opinions. Why doesn’t he just come out and say he doesn’t want fredi here? And give his reasoning. Do I beat around the bush about hating bobby’s guts? Hell no! This is america dammit.
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wxwax
October 13th, 2010
7:12 pm
The problem with the Braves isn’t in the manager’s office. It’s in the boardroom.
Until they invest more money in quality players, they either get lucky with kids or flame out.
I just think you’re on the wrong path here, Mark.
D-vegas
October 13th, 2010
7:12 pm
mark you are a bonehead freddi wast the obvious choice, the braves are looked upon as a model program for small market team. For all the lowe bashers yes he hasn’t been great, but other than cc what else big names panned out?
burnett-no
peavy-no
lowe-no
you can honestly say lowe has been the 2nd best big name free agent pitcher from that class.
if we dont get one of these guys werth, crawford, or rasmus i might just lead a mob to go get the heads of liberty media and trap them in a cage until there willing to pay up
Heath
October 13th, 2010
7:13 pm
How’d that whole Chuck Tanner thing work out, anyway? Being from outside the organization it must have been a smashing success.
Andrew
October 13th, 2010
7:14 pm
I often agree with you, MB, but in this case, I think you’re gasping at straws. Fredi Gonzalez is not Bobby Cox, and some things will be different, especially between the lines. The reason Fredi is a great hire is because he’ll maintain the continuity that’s been in the clubhouse for 20+ years, and having learned from Bobby, he’ll go to bat for his players unless they really fall off the wagon.
You’re going to have a hard time telling me that Bobby’s way of doing things is the reason the Braves had less success over the last five years, as opposed to a payroll that was almost halved, awful pitching (see: 2007 and 2008 rotations) and the over-reliance of young players and cheap, journeymen vets.
But Bobby’s method at least kept the team competitive, and it kept his clubhouse happy and in line, which you can’t say for a lot of teams. Where Fredi will be different, however, is between the lines… he’s far more aggressive on the basepaths (assuming we actually find someone who can run) and he certainly has shown the ability to get the most out of his players, as opposed to those above-mentioned vets who have often come here and failed.
Oh, by the way, how did La Russa’s loaded roster treat him this year?
Good move all the way around
P. Bull Terrier
October 13th, 2010
7:19 pm
I’m guessing the editors assigned Bradley to write the negative counterpoint on the Gonzalez hiring, but his heart isn’t really in it. If a lack of “Statistical Analysis” is the biggest negative about Gonzalez, I’d say the Braves made a great choice. We have plenty of fantasy baseball coaches around here. Gonzalez is a real world coach.
we need a shortstop that will hustle on EVERY play
October 13th, 2010
7:23 pm
Ist thing Fredi need to do is find a shortstop that will NOT QUIT, the clown we have is a sorry excuse for a ball player…
IceColdATLien
October 13th, 2010
7:24 pm
MB, once again you’ve demonstrated within your own column why you’re main point is wrong. You even noted that Wren’s list began over a year ago and has been whittled over time. That, by it’s very definition, is NOT knee jerk.