It sounds odd, but here goes: Is Bobby Cox a good manager?
He's got spurs that jingle-jangle-jingle, as he goes ridin' merrily along. (AP photo)
The lead’s down to a half-game — still a lead, though! — and the drumbeat is louder than ever: The Braves are going to blow this because they’re managed by Bobby Cox, who never met a game or a playoff series he couldn’t mess up.
Understand: That’s not my belief. My belief is that Bobby Cox is the best manager I’ve ever seen and the best I’ll ever see. And when I say that, I don’t mean that he never makes a move that fizzles. He does. All managers do. He’s the best because he has taken 15 teams north from spring training and finished first with them. In the history of baseball, no other manager has managed that.
But you , or at least some of you, apparently see it differently. You fault Cox for all the Braves’ losses but credit him for none of their triumphs. They won the 1995 World Series in spite of him. They took 14 division titles in succession because of Glavine, Maddux and Smoltz — although it must be noted that not one of the Hall of Fame pitchers took part in every division-winning season (not even Smoltz, who missed 2000 after undergoing arm repair).
The only constant over the succession of titles was Cox, and still I hear that some among us will be glad when he retires, which stands to happen soon. I understand that complaining about your team’s manager is a time-honored part of following baseball. I also understand that the expressions of discontent on these blogs might not constitute a consensus. (Squeaky Wheel, greet Mr. Grease.)
Loading ...I also concede that not every game or every season will be a managerial pearl. I disagreed with Cox for having Martin Prado bunt a couple of weeks ago, and I didn’t think Cox had his greatest season in 2009. I would, however, submit that 2010 ranks with 1991 and 1999 and 2003 among his finest work, and I’ll say this flat-out: The Braves will have a new man in charge come 2011, but he will not be an upgrade. He can’t be. Because he’s replacing the best.
Again, that’s my take. Yours is apt to be different. In the interest of edification (my own), I’m asking you to do something today. I’m asking you to vote on Bobby Cox as a manager. If you care to leave a comment as well, that will be be dandy, but I’m happy today to respect the sanctity of the ballot box.
The man who wears No. 6 is going to the Hall of Fame, but perhaps you don’t rate him as a Hall of Famer. Or maybe you do. Either way, here’s your chance to speak. And I can tell you in closing that 99.9 percent of the men who’ve played for Bobby Cox would consider him the best in the business if not the finest ever, but that’s their opinion. Today I’m soliciting yours. Have at it.
Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Guides
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2012 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
730 comments Add your comment
gmoney
September 7th, 2010
10:15 am
1st
kurt42589
September 7th, 2010
10:15 am
FIrst!
Dave
September 7th, 2010
10:16 am
We won’t truly understand what we’ve got ’till it’s gone.
Mark Bradley
September 7th, 2010
10:16 am
Kudos to gmoney. Condolences to kurt42589.
wawel78
September 7th, 2010
10:17 am
Hasn’t McLouth started the last 2 games? Ankiel may not be great but he’s still hitting 30 points higher.
Mark Bradley
September 7th, 2010
10:17 am
Second that, Dave.
Bobby Coccyx
September 7th, 2010
10:18 am
I’m a good kid
Bruce Mac
September 7th, 2010
10:21 am
Mark, you have proven over and over you know very little about baseball so why would you even opine regards Mr. Cox. On another note, how does a contending team have the choice of McClouth or Ankiel (both batting less than .200 versus leftys) and no other against a left handed starter.
Ted Striker
September 7th, 2010
10:23 am
Bobby Cox is the best manager I’ve ever witnessed.
1) His results speak for themselves.
2) His players speak for their manager.
3) History speaks to the rest.
wawel78
September 7th, 2010
10:26 am
My biggest issue with him is that he remains loyal to players that he shouldn’t (Franceouer, McLouth) but then there are others that do not give the same benefit (Diaz, KK )
The braves are in the heart of the playoff push and the lead cannot be smaller and we’re running Nate McLouth out there.
I thought the bunt call was stupid but I can see the logic. Just curious – do we know if Bobby called for that or was Prado being a team player?
My angst goes back to 1991, putting Liebrandt in to face Puckett but you and I have already hashed through this one. I think it was beyond dumb, you think it’s great b/c Liebrandt struck Puckett out earlier in the series.
Bryan G.
September 7th, 2010
10:29 am
If “good” is definied by:
1. Insisting on sac bunting even though the odds show that you’re more likely to score without bunting AND
2. Insisting on lefty-lefty or righty-righty pitching matchups from the bullpen (even if the lefthanded hitter hits higher against lefties),
Then, yes, he’s a good manager.
wawel78
September 7th, 2010
10:29 am
Mark – while winning the division feat is incredible, it’s pretty meaningless w/out championships. As we all recall, Torre won 4 and the Marlins won 2 during that period.
Dawgdad (The Original)
September 7th, 2010
10:31 am
Every human being (managers included) have good and bad traits. You hope when you hire a manager that their good traits more than compensate for the bad ones. In Bobby’s case they hit a home run.
Larry Hancock
September 7th, 2010
10:32 am
Concerning the ability of Bobby Cox as a mamager. Which game do you want to consider? OK let’s take the game yesterday with Pittsburg. It’s obvious they were going to have a gard time scoring off this futher hall of fame pitcher the Pirates were hurling at them. Joe and Ernie mentioned that the catcher for the Pirates had thrown out something like 7 of 56. So logically we try to steal a run or two, you know kike the Pirates did in the first. With our best basestealers on base how many bases did we even TRY to steal …one, and even though McLouth slipped as he started to second he stole it ealily. Every gets more and more frustrating. He says you win by pitching and defense. We don’t have a defensive left fielder. I don’t guess he has thought about putting Nate in left and Rick in center. Hell I’ll bet even with them in defensively we could score at least one run on the Pirates.
Mike Jay
September 7th, 2010
10:32 am
BC is one of the all time greats. No doubt about it. Ask anyone IN basbeall and they will agree. I’m pretty sure t hey know more about it than a bunch of bloggers.
Not Don Waddell
September 7th, 2010
10:32 am
I just remember earlier in the season, when we were really hot, Bobby was pulling out all the stops, squeeze bunts, etc….but as usual, his sphincter tightens up and he plays not to lose instead of playing to win….oh, and Johnny Venters’ arm may simply just fall off in the next few days…how about giving him some rest every now and again?
Bobby is great at having his guys ready to play all 162, but he is flat-out terrible as an in-game tactician….the great thing is that the Braves managed to keep it interesting all the way to college fooball season, and now nobody will be paying attention to them as they miss out on the playoffs down the stretch…
Mike
September 7th, 2010
10:34 am
Bruce Mac…..The entire population of baseball would laugh at you and anyone else who felt differently tan Mark on Mr. Cox.
Braves73
September 7th, 2010
10:36 am
Mark, I will agree that Bobby is the Braves best manager and a sure fire hall of famer. The best quality with Bobby is also his biggest weakness…loyalty. He is definitely and probably one of the all time great “players manager”, but his blind loyalty is what has and always will be Bobby’s curse.
wayn-o
September 7th, 2010
10:37 am
I’m ready for a new era, the last one was fueled by talent, scouting & ted turner’s pocket. Isn’t weird how things have backed off since Ted’s deep pockets left. Only able to rely on good scouting to produce quality players. Not much for quality coming in trades. That leaves Cox to manage. Which he tends to flounder at. Marlins 2 championships, Braves 1.
halodawg
September 7th, 2010
10:37 am
Great manager but way too loyal to players when slumping, case in point, McLouth. There was a reason he was sent to the minors, he can’t hit anymore. Sure, bring him up to pinch run but don’t make him an everyday player again. I can think of many cases where he kept throwing out undeserving players, Greg Norton also comes to mind. His loyalty could be his greatest downfall.
carlchamblee
September 7th, 2010
10:38 am
Gee how democratic of you Mark. “I want your opinion, but if you don’t like Cox you are just part of a small minority who doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Everyone knows he is great”. That’s your snarky tone.
First off, you’re wrong – Cox did not end the season first. Only once he did. But I’m sure you mean divisions which is the gold standard around here. Of course he’s failed to do that for 5 years too but we are supposed to live in the past and keep calling him great.
He blew so many chances with hall of fame pitching. You can twist the facts and say all of them weren’t here all the years, but they were here for most of his choke jobs. It took the greatest manager ever 3 years to see in Prado what everyone else saw. He thought Kelly johnson was a better 2b and better hitter. He only starting playing Infante everyday when he had no choice.
For all your blather about how great he is w players, the truth is it is CERTAIN players. And the guy beyatches and moans about bad calls and bad luck so much that he leads the world in ejections.
Please, we need a breath of fresh air in the dugout.
asheville dawg
September 7th, 2010
10:39 am
I agree with guy that thinks you will only miss Bobby Cox till he’s gone. After twenty years at the helm, it’s getting hard to remember those other guys who managed (and failed) miserably before the great Cox. And if we older folks hardly remember, think about kids like my 26 year old son. He knows of no other manager but Cox and Braves greatness.
Who follows Bobby will feel like the fellow who replaced Bear Bryant. If you keep winning, you’re supposed to. If you don’t, isn’t Bobby Cox the great one?
He is one of the great ones, but not the best ever. Maybe not as great as Joe Torre.
ramblingbuzz
September 7th, 2010
10:39 am
I’d like to know if starting Kawakami last week in Florida was a Cox decision or came from higher up. Cause starting a guy who hadn’t pitched in the bigs in 2 months and was getting smoked when he did pitch was just dumb.
Mark Bradley
September 7th, 2010
10:39 am
I hear about “loyalty” a lot, and I’d agree that it’s a Cox attribute. But let’s also note that Cox doesn’t make the roster, and a roster has only 25 men. Someone has to play.
groundfog
September 7th, 2010
10:40 am
If he is such a great manager , why are they 10 games under .500 on the road? why are they a completely different team on the road?
Bruce Mac
September 7th, 2010
10:40 am
Maybe so, but that doesn’t make Mark a knowledgeable baseball man. It makes him a parrot. And by the way, your comment makes you a poor reader, as I never opined regards Mr. Cox.
FJ10
September 7th, 2010
10:41 am
In a difficult game where personal failure is more common than success players need a boss who believes in them. Bobby does that. Bobby manages like a Vegas gambling house. He knows the odds are slighy in his favor as long as he plays the correct odds. In a 162 game season it works fine, short series you can lose.. Bobby always put his players in positions where they have the greatest chance to succeed -R/L matchups etc. Great manager.
Mark Bradley
September 7th, 2010
10:41 am
Who else should have started, ramblingbuzz?
Dave
September 7th, 2010
10:42 am
Wren is the real problem. We keep trading for these supposedly great players that do nothing once they get here!
Bushwacker
September 7th, 2010
10:42 am
Bobby is not the problem, it’s Frank Wren.
We were the best team in baseball at the All star break.
Then Wren starts making changes to FIRST PLACE TEAM???
Less playing time for the guys who put us in first place:
Glaus,Hinske, Cabrerra, and Diaz, oh yea, don’t forget replacing Gregor Blanco (anohter Infante and Prado) type with Ankiel.
Since the break we are BARELY A 500 TEAM!!!
How many games have we lost since Lee took over for first???
Put Glaus and Hinske on first and Diaz in left and Melky in cwenter and go on another winning streak before its too late!!
Bobby has some issue stoo, McLouth EARNED another start because of 2 HARD HIT BALLS??
Are you kdding me??
Bruce Mac
September 7th, 2010
10:43 am
Mark, once again you illustrate my point. This roster has 30 on it and can have more if necessary.
WDE
September 7th, 2010
10:45 am
There’s no denying that he’s the best manager in the eyes of the players. I do think that he spent too much time relying on the long ball in recent years. I voted better for players than tactics, but I still love the heck out of him.
Phillistein
September 7th, 2010
10:45 am
What a croc!!
15 number one finishes?
Really?
It’s to be noted of course but post season records don’t mean nearly as much as they once did.
Cox’s run coincided with Leo’s tenure. And Cox has won what since Mazzone left?
How many?
I thought so.
Which is NOT to say Leo could win anywhere. His tenure in Baltimore proved that. But together they were a two-headed monster.
Puhleeze.
He ranks # 25 in winning percentage.
And the reason he’s #4 in wins is because he’s also #4 in number of games managed.
One Series win in 14 consecutive trips to the playoffs says it all
reebok
September 7th, 2010
10:46 am
players love cox because he demands nothing of them and coddles them. he managed to get blown out of the playoffs every year by inferior teams while he had 4 future hall of famers and 7-8 legit all-stars on his roster. a manager with some fire would have won 4 world championships with that talent. i wish booby had retired 10 years ago.
James
September 7th, 2010
10:46 am
I have always said during the 10 year plus run- hmmm- should I go Glavine Maddox Smoltz or Maddox Glavine…… Terrance Moore use to beat on JS for making the wrong move (generally suggested as based on race) but it was Cox who wanted Justice, Furcal, etc. moved. Was I the only one that got tired of Weiss and Lockhart? I “love” the Braves- been watching since the Ralph Garr days, but this team has too many weaknesses to overcome.
David Granger
September 7th, 2010
10:47 am
I think that Bobby Cox is a fine manager, with some serious flaws.
He has made the Braves a team that players are eager to play for, instead of a laughing stock that nobody wanted to play for. He has built and maintained an air of professionalism on the team, which has been good for the on-field performance as well as the off-field reputation. He has made some good moves (or had input into some good moves, since the GM is the one with final say-so on personnel).
On the other hand, he has been loyal to some players long after it’s become obvious that they’re not doing the job. His batting order has been damned illogical many years…remember when he tried to bat Andruw Jones leadoff? He has done some very strange things with his pitching staff, though pitching has been a strong point during his tenure. Charlie Liebrandt, for example, won 15 games in 1991…but was a junkballer, and NOT the kind of pitcher you want to bring in after a hard thrower because that always speeds up the opposing players’ bats. And look at how many times over the years we’ve had a closer have a little trouble and start getting hit…yet, Bobby would continue to send the guy out there, no matter how many times he’d been used in a row, and even when the setup man had been doing a good job and getting people out. Why not let the setup man stay in until he starts getting hit, and let the closer have a night off now and again?
Bobby always seemed to have one guy (Andruw Jones, Jeff Francouer) whom he would play just about every inning for 162 games, instead of giving the guy a break here and there.
I think that Bobby Cox was good at building a team, but not so good at taking that team and getting everything out of it. His teams were outstanding at winning over a long term, but not as good short term…a good marathoner, not a sprinter. And a baseball season is, in many ways, a marathon…while the playoffs are always sprints.
And I agree with you, Mark…the job he’s doing this year ranks with 1991 as one of his finest.
Scott
September 7th, 2010
10:49 am
He let McClouth bat in the 8th with two outs and runners on 2nd and 3rd. You tell me!
birddawg92
September 7th, 2010
10:52 am
Cox’s virtues are also his weaknesses: loyalty and patience. Due to both, he sticks with guys in their roles (pitchers/position players), when it’s obvious to everyone else that they’re failing, to a serious fault.
How many times have you seen Bobby Cox send in a reliever who has had a consistent run of putting runners on and an inability to throw strikes? He’s done it his entire career. Following on an earlier comment, Cox goes by “the book” (lefty/lefty-righty/righty) even if averages/recent performance would seem to commend another course. Of course, the Glaus experiment is just the most recent Exhibit A in the position-player realm.
However, these same qualities obviously endear him to his players and foster clubhouse chemistry, I suppose. And, in game situations, for instance, Cox doesn’t jerk pitchers when a couple of slow-rollers go for hits or jammed hitters happen to flare one over the infield. He knows that bad luck is part of the game. And while I can’t think of a time that Cox has flat-out called out a player, we know that he doesn’t tolerate bad effort (Escobar, pulling A. Jones in the middle of an inning a few years ago).
Like many Braves fans, I find Cox maddening when he send Peter Moylan or Johnny Venters into big situations when they’ve shown over 3-4 most recent appearances that they can’t throw strikes or get anybody out. And I can’t understand how you continue to hit Troy Glaus clean-up for a MONTH when all he’s doing is striking out or hitting into double plays with an obviously slow bat. But overall, the results speak for themselves. He does a lot right. I’m glad he’s been ours the past 30 years.
http://www.saturdayinathens.com
Ankiel ugh
September 7th, 2010
10:53 am
Obviously not. If he was, he would have won more than one WE over a 14 year span.
Nathan
September 7th, 2010
10:55 am
Florida marlins have two world series. Bobby has one. Nuff said.
Rick
September 7th, 2010
10:56 am
Stat of the day: Braves hitting .147 with RISP this trip
Kentavo
September 7th, 2010
10:57 am
He was good at keeping the run going until the talent level nearly dried up and budget shrunk – 2005 was probably his finest managerial job with the influx of rookies – and he was very good earlier this year in that May-June stretch that got the team in 1st place; squeeze bunting, hit-and-run, a quick hook with pitchers. But he’s just plain bad at recognizing trends and putting the wrong guys in the wrong situations. But then again, who woulda thunk Brooks Conrad was the answer?
So; I’d say he’s pretty good when he bears down but he makes too many “we’ll get-’em tomorrow” type of decisions, including some of the punchless lineups he runs out there in the heat of a pennant race.
Overall, I’d give him a B-plus; would be a solid A if the Braves had a couple of more World Series titles, and they should at the very least have one more during the Cox era.
That being said; looking forward to the new era if an aggressive-style manager is hired.
Chuck
September 7th, 2010
10:58 am
I’ll miss Bobby when he’s gone and obviously his accomplishments are noteworthy. He can build a great team and keep them focused and even keeled for the duration of a season as well as anyone ever. However, I don’t think it can be argued that he’s one of the best strategist or in-game decision makers of all time, and that is why he’s had so little post-season success. It must be noted that he had 15 division winners and only one of them was able to win a World Series despite having one of the best pitching staffs in all of baseball for a good stretch of that time. The Braves were up 2 games to none over the Yankees in ‘96 before losing 3 games at home as Joe Torre managed circles around Bobby Cox. Over a 162 game schedule, I’d take Cox over anyone ever. In a post-season series or a must win game, he wouldn’t make my 10.
GSU Eagle 91
September 7th, 2010
10:59 am
Booby Cox insists on trotting out Nate McClouth and for goodness sakes..WHY? He couldn’t get a base hit in a meaningful situation if I pitched to him!
I’m ready for a change…Have been for years…Maybe it will be Pendleton, maybe F Gonzalez, but it is time …..
I like Bobby, but I have said for years he has no idea when to pull a pitcher once the game is on the line…
dobearsbare
September 7th, 2010
11:00 am
We can quibble over this decision or that decision, but count me in the “results speaks for themselves” camp. He’s eight wins from 2,500 as a manager and is one of only three managers who are 500 games over .500 (the other two: John McGraw and Joe McCarthy). To suggest that he’s not a good manager is ludicrous.
steve brown
September 7th, 2010
11:00 am
Good, maybe/probably very good, not great. To be great he would have needed to win it all more than once with the chances he had. Maybe he wins it all this year and sneaks into great, I sure hope so.
Not Don Waddell
September 7th, 2010
11:02 am
Has Johnny Venters lined up his Tommy John surgery for next June yet? It’s coming, and it is only a matter of time.
GSU Eagle 91
September 7th, 2010
11:02 am
Asheville Dawg…
Here are some names for you…Russ Nixon… Chuck Tanner…Luman Harris..Dave Bristol….
Our talent pool during those years was wretched at best…..
ChrisfromSacramento,CA
September 7th, 2010
11:07 am
While Cox didnt make the roster, he sure can do the best he can with it.
By playing McCloth and that PITCHER playing center, Cox is not giving the Braves the best chance to win.
With Chipper going down it was crushing in many ways. That being said, what is wrong with INFANTE playing center. He is fast and played well before out there. Put Brooks at second or third.
The offense is the issue. They cant score. Platoon Diaz and Melky. And leave Ankiel and McCloth on the side of the road. While they are at it leave Lee and Glaus there as well.
Lee cangt hit an 88mph fastball, and Glaus well he is on deaths door step with his body.
Bobby Cox please do something positive, like putting someone like Brooks in the lineup, he plays hard and is clutch. Those toher guys are just cursed.
Remember Melky was the starting centerfielder for a world series winner. Ill take him over a pitcher playing centerfield.
Cox is to loyal, and does not sit players that clearly suck. Change something of Bobby you will be sitting on your ass come October 5th.
ChrisfromSacramento,CA
September 7th, 2010
11:09 am
Oh ya I wont get into how he has handled the bullpen. He just wants to kill Venters. Or at least have his arm fall off.