Another Hawks dilemma: Pay Jamal Crawford or dump him?
Here we see Jamal Crawford in a moment of exultation. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
An unsatisfying offseason has the potential to turn unsavory. In the same summer the Hawks made Joe Johnson the priciest free-agent signing and Larry Drew the cheapest head-coaching hire, they must now deal with Jamal Crawford. This isn’t what any doctor — from Dr. J to Dr. Jack Ramsey — would have ordered.
According to Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe, Crawford and his agent are expected to meet with general manager Rick Sund this week. Crawford is thought to want one of two things: To sign a contract extension before the new season commences or to be traded forthwith. Given that his was the happiest Hawks story of a season that ended unhappily, Crawford must be taken seriously. Given that these are the Hawks, who are so cheap they haven’t yet fleshed out their roster, he shouldn’t hold his breath.
Yes, cheap. Even after sinking $120 million into Joe Johnson, the Hawks keep giving us reason to doubt their long-avowed Commitment To Excellence. They could have hired an established NBA head coach to replace Mike Woodson and wound up promoting Drew, who’d been Woodson’s assistant all along. They could have spent significant money to find another big man, and instead they’ve attempted to make do with Josh Powell and another episode of the Jason Collins Saga. (For late tuners-in, Collins was on the Hawks’ roster all last season, though not so you noticed.)
It’s unclear what Crawford really thinks is apt to happen if he does deliver a pay-me-more-or-trade-me-now demand. Because the Hawks aren’t apt to pay anyone more. Public statements notwithstanding, the Atlanta Spirit seems uninterested in paying one in-the-red cent of luxury tax. Beyond that, there’s a more pressing matter: What to do with Al Horford, who means even more to this franchise?
Horford can become a restricted free agent at season’s end. The Hawks would prefer he not test the market because they know full well he’d be coveted from sea to shining sea. If any Hawk is apt to receive a contract extension before Halloween, it’s Horfy. There’s almost no chance two Hawks will be offered preseason extensions at this late date.
So, if Sund doesn’t hand Crawford a new contract, what does the GM do? Trade him? Even though any attempt to shed a disgruntled player creates a buyer’s market? Even though the Hawks would be pressed to get anything comparable to Crawford in return? Even though the strength of this team headed into 2010-11 figured to be its continuity?
Loading ...On the other hand … do you want a disgruntled player in a locker room not overrun with vocal leaders? (Horford is the Hawk most apt to speak, and if he chooses not to accept an extension he’ll be facing contractual issues of his own.) The issue of Johnson’s impending free agency became a major story last season, and Crawford is 10 times more talkative than J.J.
Yes, the Hawks did draft a shooting guard in Jordan Crawford, but 26 players were taken ahead of him and there’s no assurance he’s not the 21st Century Roy Marble. This rookie cannot be seen as rotation-ready, meaning the Hawks can’t just trade one J. Crawford and hand his workload — the NBA’s sixth man of the year averaged 31 minutes a night — to another J. Crawford.
There was a time when the Hawks seemed a rousing success story: A team of young guys growing up together and learning to win. What we’re seeing is that NBA success carries a higher and higher price. A franchise cannot hold its core together for years on end without paying dearly, and paying dearly essentially means overpaying. The Hawks overpaid Johnson because they had no real alternative: To lose him would have meant losing much of the credibility they’ve spent the past decade trying to re-establish.
The price for credibility, alas, was flexibility. The Hawks have almost none. To give Jamal Crawford what he wants would be throwing more big money at a shooting guard already past 30 in the same offseason that has seen them lavish a six-year contract on a 29-year-old who plays the same position. To trade Crawford would be to weaken the team he helped lift from 47 victories to 53. There might be a happy ending to this latest Hawks tempest, but I’ll be darned if I see it.
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172 comments Add your comment
Khao$
August 30th, 2010
7:57 am
This has been a lackluster offseason if I’ve ever seen one. We overpaid for a guy he told the fans “screw you.” We fire a coach we deemed inept and we promote his assistant. We make no additions to a team that has been blown out of the 2nd round two years in a row, the latter by historic proportions. And now, Jamal says ink me or trade me. At the core, the ASG is the source of all of these problems. Until they commit to winning, we’ll have more summers like this.
dap01
August 30th, 2010
7:57 am
This what happens when there is no leadership, no sense of direction.
Jamal needs to realize that who ever wants him in a trade would want him because he is an expiring contract. No team wants a long committment.
Pay me or trade me tells me a lot about who Jamal is.
Just Play
August 30th, 2010
8:01 am
No reason to sign Crawford ahead of time. He may be miffed, but with a free agent contract on the line, he isn’t going to tank it.
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
8:03 am
A weird summer for sure, Khao$. They kept Joe Johnson and still nobody seems thrilled about it.
dap01
August 30th, 2010
8:03 am
Just Play: You are right. He may be mad all year but he will play hard for the contract.
tom
August 30th, 2010
8:11 am
Dump him. Hawks have no one on the roster worth paying big bucks for. Including Joe Johnson who was a big mistake.
jfreak
August 30th, 2010
8:15 am
The real issue is Joe Johnson not Jamal Crawford. If the Hawks would have simply said NO to Johson they would have more room to deal with Crawford. Either way the Hawks would not have been as good a team but they would have more flexibility in the years to come. They damned themselves with Johnson.
jim
August 30th, 2010
8:18 am
keep him — then see where we are at the trade deadline. Otherwise, this man really has no future with us beyond this year. Maybe we can s&T him for another j’chill garbage trade.
Manny
August 30th, 2010
8:20 am
Neither. He can demand a trade all he wants, but he’s still under contract. So play him.
mountain_jim
August 30th, 2010
8:21 am
With football season cranking up, with a well-financed and well-managed and well-coached team, I confess I really don’t care much after this off-season what the Hawks do or don’t do. Selling the draft pick and doing nothing with the 3 millions gained was the last straw for my being concerned with the Hawks. (and I am a fan and former season ticket holder of some 35 years.)
Go Falcons! Rise Up!
sleeze
August 30th, 2010
8:29 am
Mountain Jim summed it up. Who cares about the Hawks and go Flacons!
sleeze
August 30th, 2010
8:29 am
And yeah.. and go Falcons too!
SWAT Native
August 30th, 2010
8:39 am
Roy Marble? Boy, there’s a blast from the past…
I hate this. I don’t blame Jamal given that the Collective Bargaining Agreement expires after this year, and who knows what his options will be after that. It just seems that after being traded from team to team and getting a bad rep, he was a perfect fit for the Hawks, and he got to live in the same town as his son. I think he realizes that the Hawks probably won’t resign him at the end of the year and may try and trade him at the trade deadline. He’s just bringing the issue to a head.
LIke some others said, I guess the good news is that the Hawks don’t have to do anything at this point, but it can’t be good to have a disgruntled player on your team.
Paddy
August 30th, 2010
8:40 am
It is the ASG. Need you ask! They will trade him!
Fresh
August 30th, 2010
8:41 am
From Realgm.com:
Crawford’s Agent, Hawks To Meet This Week
Aug 29, 2010 8:06 PM EST
The agent for Hawks guard Jamal Crawford, Aaron Goodwin, is set to meet with Atlanta general manager Rick Sund this week to discuss a contract extension, according to sources.
Crawford is entering the final year of his contract and there have been reports that he’ll request a trade if he’s not given a long-term deal.
He is the only player among Atlanta’s core that isn’t signed for the next few years.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68899/20100829/crawfords_agent_hawks_to_meet_this_week/
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
8:44 am
Sund is going to have to pull of some magic to make many people feel good about the Hawks’ prospects for next season. If they do sign Crawford to an extension but not Horford, then everyone will be worried that re-signing Crawford will cost us Horford. Of course, as long as they don’t radically overpay him, signing him to an extension doesn’t mean he’ll be here long term, unless he demands a no-trade clause. Otherwise, they could extend him to keep him happy, then, if JC2 develops, they could trade him next offseason.
However, maybe this could be the kick in the butt Sund and ASG needed to do something radical and shake up their core. The only problem I have with it is timing. We’re about 2 months away from the beginning of the season. I don’t know how strongly JC had expressed his desire for an extension to the Hawks before, but the Hawks would’ve been much better off if this ultimatum had come earlier.
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
8:52 am
Oh, Mark, you forgot to mention that the Hawks’ flexibility is also limited by the fact that the Hawks overpaid Bibby, Marvin and ZaZa. Marvin’s never produced up to expectations, but seemed to take a step back last year, and Bibby’s and ZaZa’s production last season was not to the levels that earned them their contracts.
truthspitter
August 30th, 2010
8:54 am
He should have already been traded
Herschel Talker
August 30th, 2010
8:55 am
MB:
The Hawks stink. Let’s not dampen the enthusiasm of the Braves and the upcoming enthusiasm of the Falcons with some nonsense about this terrible team.
HT
Delbert D.
August 30th, 2010
8:59 am
Disgruntle him even more. I don’t like disgruntled anybody.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:05 am
Crawford is the best 6th man nio doubt but there’s a reason he’s never been a starter. I believe he can’t physically handle playing a full game and put up the scoring numbers he has off the bench. So you are basically talking about trading a disgruntled 6th man not a starter. Save the money for Horford and other younger free agents next year. Trade him to the Wizards or Raptors. See how he would like those Marbles (pun intended Mark).
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:07 am
So if Crawford gets an extension he’s happy and will play well but if he doesn’t then he will quit on the team ? That’s basically what he’s saying if you read between the lines. Why would you want a player on your team that puts your team in that position over money anyway ? Trade him now.
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
9:10 am
I can’t envision Jamal Crawford not giving a professional effort, robdawg04. I can envision his contract becoming a distraction.
Oh, and Jamal had always been a starter until he came here.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:12 am
Hey Hawks management, why did you give JJ about twice as much as any other team offered plus the extra year ? He’s not Wade,Lebron,Kobe,or Durant. He’s Joe Johnson the 22 point then 8 point per game Jekkyl & Hyde show. He will lead your team to the playoffs then promptly disappear in those playoffs. You tied up too much money so now you are faced with the Crawford situation. Crawford’s likely thinking ‘JJ scores 22 points in 40 minutes and I can score 18 in 20 minutes so I’m worth at least 3/4 what JJ is worth”…
Lowcountry Bulldawg
August 30th, 2010
9:12 am
Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse for the Hawks! I agree, hold him to the contract and like was mentioned earlier in a pending FA year no way does he go into the tank.
Prime example in football is the Jets. Revis disgruntled holds out still doesn’t have a new deal. Mangold shows up, does run his mouth to the media outlets and gets the deal done. Alot of professional athletes could learn a lesson here in how to conduct themselves.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:13 am
I thought he was a sixth man in New York ?
tommy wright 3rd
August 30th, 2010
9:13 am
mark,
you should have said Ed Gray!
Whopper Dawg
August 30th, 2010
9:14 am
Khao$ – right on the mark.
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
He did both as a Knick, robdawg08 — started some, came off the bench some. So I guess I wasn’t fully accurate in saying he’d always been a starter. But last season was the first since his early NBA years that he was a sixth man full-time.
newkid
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
Ditto mountain_jim
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:17 am
Well spoken Khao$ ! I totally agree.
Dawg Reflections
August 30th, 2010
9:18 am
Just let the guy walk. I like JC and the team needs consistent scoring, but there is no sense putting this team further behind the financial 8-ball. They JJ deal was bad enough, but the team was backed into a corner on that one. They are not a championship team with or without J. Crawford. Just trade him for what you can settle for and let the rookies play for cheap. You have to have room to keep Horford no matter what.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:19 am
Mark, what is Hawks ownership’s explanation of signing Joe Johnson to a max contract of LeBron proportions when he’s closer to a Stephon Marbury ?
Hawks looking to extend Horford? | Ben Maller
August 30th, 2010
9:19 am
[...] Horford can become a restricted free agent at season’s end. The Hawks would prefer he not test the market because they know full well he’d be coveted from sea to shining sea. If any Hawk is apt to [...]
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
9:21 am
The Hawks’ explanation: Joe Johnson is their best player and they were committed to keeping him.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:22 am
I agree DR. They would need someone like Carmelo Anthony to compete with the Miami Heat. It is almost unfair that 3 ofvthe best 20 (and 2 of the best 5 in LeBron & Wade) are on the same team. People say this all-star team won’t work but it worked with Houston (Hakeem,Barkley,Drexler) and in Boston (Garnett,Allen,& Pierce). Damn, I see Miami winning 70+ games.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:23 am
Mark, Horford is the Hawks best player.
RambleOn84
August 30th, 2010
9:26 am
I hate being so negative, but I have to echo what many others have said:
I could not care less. I am a huge basketball fan and have held season tickets for 15 years, through good times and bad times (mostly bad times), but I canceled them after we gave a $120 million contract to that guy who doesn’t care whether or not I show up.
Too bad, because I really like most of the players on this team. But when management time and time again indicate how little they care for their fanbase, you eventually need to let them know how little you care for them.
Olik
August 30th, 2010
9:27 am
carmelo anthony wants out of denver. josh smith and jamal crawford together make a little more than carmelo, so let’s take carmelo and some leftovers for josh and jamal. denver would get a young rising star, immediate points off the bench, and cap flexibility when jamal’s contract expires. we’d get star power and a “fresh” team. of course, people will say carmelo wouldn’t ever want to play in atlanta, but wouldn’t a trifecta of jj/carmelo/horford be pretty interesting to him? and financially, this isn’t really much of a hardship for the atlanta spirit vs current situation. why is this not a good idea?
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:28 am
What about trading Crawford,Mo Evans,next years #2 pick to Denver for Carmelo ?
Road Scholar
August 30th, 2010
9:30 am
They should have promoted Crawford and let Joe Johnson go!
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:31 am
JJ,Melo,& Horford is a bonafide team. Melo would add 25 to 30 points a game and defense.
WHO CARE'S
August 30th, 2010
9:31 am
UNTIL THE(I USE THIS WORD TONGUE IN CHEEK) OWNER’S? GET SERIOUS ABOUT THIER PRODUCT DOES IT REALLY MATTER??!! I FOR ONE WILL NOT WASTE ANOTHER MINUTE ON THE ASG B/C THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND THEY DO NOT CARE!!!
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
9:31 am
Not sure Barkley played with Olajuwon and Drexler when they were winning titles.
King Teezo
August 30th, 2010
9:31 am
Dude earlier said it best…I don’t think the JJ contract is the problem b/c he was gonna get his regardless…It was overpaying Zaza, Bibby, and Marvin…They are stuck with 3 players that no other team would have paid that much for…Now they are in a position where they have to deal with Crawford and Horford, and in my opinion ATL will be worse off without Horford than Crawford…Let Crawford moan n groan, they have no obligation to trade him or extend his contract…He is the same Crawford that has been 4 teams in 10 years, that really says a lot about him…Peace…
Olik
August 30th, 2010
9:33 am
or Marvin, Jamal, and next year’s #1 pick for Carmelo? that’s about an even salary trade, with relief for Denver in year 2, and it’s a small forward for small forward….we don’t want the draft pick anyway
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:34 am
If JJ’s a team player let him give Crawford 6 of those 10 extra millions he beat the Hawks out of for an extension next year to keep him as a teammate. Just sayin’…
PD
August 30th, 2010
9:35 am
What have the Falcons really done other than pump up people’s hopes? The Hawks have been to the playoffs the past 3 post-seasons. The Hawks are 1 or 2 pieces coach or player from making the Conference Finals. Don’t bag the Hawks because your Falcons are marginal at best. Besides, if you love football so much go Ledbetter’s blog.
balismith
August 30th, 2010
9:36 am
seems to me the hawks are getting what they deserve I thought the new general manager was the guy to take then over the top cant wait for the start of the new season
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:37 am
Mark, you get my point though. 3 stars on a team can work. Barkley might have came on a year later. It evens works many times with two stars : Shaq & Penny,Shaq & Kobe,Magic & Kareem,Pippen & Jordan. Three should be even better. More scoring options.
Olik
August 30th, 2010
9:37 am
“Hi Denver, this is Rick. How ’bout this: I’ll give you my #1 pick next year, Jamal, and any combination of Josh, Marvin, and my whole bench – your choice. You give me Carmelo and anything else you want to give me to make the dollars work. Everybody wins.”
BugKiller
August 30th, 2010
9:38 am
Making Johnson the highest paid player IN the NBA in a year when ALL free agents took less money just shows you how much a joke the Dispirit is, Mark.
WHY didn’t they call his bluff??? NO ONE was going to pay him 120 million. NO ONE was going to pay him 115 or 110 million. SO WHY didn’t they call his bluff???
And then WHY didn’t the Hawks even call Denver to do a mutual sign and trade for Melo???
The Hawks could have traded BOTH Joe Johnson AND Marvin Williams, two playoff disappointments (and for Williams, a disappointment all around) for Carmelo Anthony and Nene, getting the on-court leader they were missing with Johnson, and a big man in need of a new team and a fresh start.
WHY, Mark??? Carmelo Anthony in Atlanta just makes too much damn sense.
Instead, we’re left with Droopy Dog, who is NOT going to be happy playing in any offense that’s not called the Iso-Joe.
Melo would have put people in the seats. Melo would have sold out Phillips and put money in our terrible owner’s pockets.
Melo would have made this team a contender with Miami and Chicago and Boston. Now, Atlanta, like Cleveland, is just an also-ran who’ll be lucky to get a 5th or 6th seed.
Jt
August 30th, 2010
9:38 am
I hate it, but I think the Hawks had to overpay to keep JJ. They could not let him go- it would have been a step backward- there were no alternatives. Jamal is under contract- the Hawks do not have to do anything with him. I cannot imagine a player of his character giving anything but maximum effort every night. But, then again, even at 54 years old, I am still sometimes naive
NCBravesFan
August 30th, 2010
9:39 am
RambleOn84’s post just dropped a question in my head – how are season ticket sales going this offseason? If I was a season ticket holder, I’d be very concerned about the “changes” that have been made this offseason after the Hawks’ playoff performance.
As for Jamal, I don’t begrudge his stance, especially with the CBA coming up. That said, I would say trade him if the Hawks won’t extend him (which I seriously doubt they will).
Joey
August 30th, 2010
9:40 am
Where is Joe Johnson? Professional sports teams all have stars who take less money or restructure their big contracts to help their teams acquire or hold on to players. Brady, Manning, Bird, Chipper and many, many others have done this.
Joe doesn’t care?
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:40 am
No one was going to pay JJ $80 million either. The Hawks were bidding him up against themselves. No other team was in the running.
Add Stockton & Malone to the twosies.
T.Shell
August 30th, 2010
9:41 am
Barkley never won a title. I would not pay him until the end of next season. He can’t tank if he wants to get paid next year.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:44 am
Whatever happened to honoring the contract you are under ? Worry about next year next year. If you are worth it then you will be rewarded in due time.
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
9:46 am
Yeah the Hawks are gonna draft another 6′7″ forward next year anyway that will be another Marvin Williams. 6 points in 25 minutes.
Swingman912
August 30th, 2010
9:48 am
While I do agree that Jordan Crawford shouldn’t be expected to duplicate the numbers of Jamal, i will say it’s worth a shot. Jamal was the gunner. In the preseason he came in trying to be a even keel PG. Woody quickly reminded him of why he was brought in. He’s a scorer, plain and simple. High volume shooter who isnt scared to take a big shot…or any shot for that matter…So is Jordan Crawford,(see K-State game) and he’s 5-6 years younger and about $8-$9mil cheaper…Accept the rookie mistakes, but give him his chance….and perhaps get something valuable(like a true SF backup) for Jamal’s expiring contract. We appreciate his contribution and we understand his reasoning(new CBA), but offering a 30Y/O player a multi-year contract when you already spent you life’s savings and your children’s college tuition to Ivy League schools to another 30y/o guy at the same position…..AND you have an All-Star big man(PF or C) who’s an UFA at the end of the season…….just trade him…………CHUUUUUUUCH
Renata
August 30th, 2010
9:48 am
Arthur Blank….Please oh Please buy the Hawks.
Dr. Warren
August 30th, 2010
9:49 am
Pro sports have become such a drag. Especially in Atlanta.
Renata
August 30th, 2010
9:50 am
Dr. Warren.
College football is the biggest waste of time. NO TRUE PLAYOFF. How can anyone watch that.
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
9:51 am
The funny thing, Mark. I think you were one of the ones arguing that the Hawks had to re-sign JJ to send a message they would pay big money for big players and they’re committed to winning. So, now they owe JJ about $120M over the next 6 seasons, but they still have the cheap tag and their commitment to winning is still greatly questioned.
PMC
August 30th, 2010
9:52 am
You’re kidding right. Pay the man his money. Who is going to hit the big shot at the end of the game Joe Johnson?
PMC
August 30th, 2010
9:54 am
And paying Jamal Crawford will be admitting just how much they overpaid for a guy who has PROVEN he’s nothing better than a great #2.
I hope Joe Johnson enjoys being richly mediocre.
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
9:56 am
Renata, even though the whole determination of national titles is still pretty unsatisfying, the great thing about college football is many of the players aren’t prima donnas whose biggest worry isn’t their next contract. A bunch of them won’t even make it to the NFL. These players especially play purely for the love of the game. College football might not be played at as high a level as the NFL, but the level of excitement and passion is fantastic.
PMC
August 30th, 2010
10:01 am
NFL players love playing the game too. They get money to practice and to put thier bodies back toegther after they crush eachother on the field.
The owners should go out and take a couple of shots just prior to the new negociations.
Renata
August 30th, 2010
10:02 am
GT Alum,
Who are you talking about. That is all big college football is anymore. Sure you have small schools like Ga Southern but GT, UGA in this little area is LOADED in prima donnas. And the excitement and passion is only at a high level in the south. Most of the south has lacked pro sports until the last 15 yrs. Minus Atlanta. I am sure you love Tech. But go anywhere else in the country and PRO anything rules. And the passion is just as big as college football is in the south. Big money is going to ruin college football. ESPN/ABC/ Nick Saban and others are going to bring it down. The NCAA is going to play a big part. The no playoff thing is just the kicker.
PD
August 30th, 2010
10:25 am
Hawks should re-sign Crawford and Horford this offseason. Rick Sund has not proved much to me so far. He did not want to draft a big man because they were all considered project big men( at 53 they could have taken Whiteside or Alabi). To address their bigs problem they sign Josh Powell, Collins and possibly Etan Thomas. I believe these are all 1 year guys. So the bench is always going to be in a state of flux at the big position outside of Zaza. Honestly, I hope all of this works and we can make some noise in the playoffs.
Hawks Looking To Retain Horford « TheUpperCardNetwork.com
August 30th, 2010
10:29 am
[...] wants a contract extension or a trade out of Atlanta, the Hawks still have another issue at hand. Mark Bradley of the Atlanta Journal Constitution writes about Crawford’s situation, and how it relates to the 2011 free agency of all-star [...]
PD
August 30th, 2010
10:30 am
I think it is true that JJ would have bolted if offered less than the max. But a feasible number to keep this team flexible should have been 90 million 6 years. The Hawks would have been signing all the guys they needed all summer if they negotiated Joe to that number. We probably would have had a proven coach and maybe Shaq.
Please no NFL or college football on this blog. We don’t pollute your blogs with Hawks talk.
Stoned Mountain
August 30th, 2010
10:30 am
Mark, you should have said Doug “More ice cream pleez” Edwards.
PD
August 30th, 2010
10:33 am
Maybe the Hawks should piss Crawford off and trade him back to Golden State for Biedrins
steve brown
August 30th, 2010
10:33 am
Waiting for Sund. He was going to study the roster and then make his moves. Jamal was the only plus move made and now it has become problematic. They even spent the 2nd round pick on a complete unknown (except to our ubiquitous scouting staff) and haven’t gotten his release from his foreign team (thank you lord). If we due get a back up center (apparently one who recently went through heart surgery so that we will at least know he has heart) Drew seems to get the credit not Sund. Still waiting for Sund to make some magic or at least something to get excited about or at least something. Could it be he and Obama were on vacation together-Obama at point guard-now there is a win win, the country is freed from his leadership and he brings change to the Hawks-35-40 wins.
PD
August 30th, 2010
10:34 am
Trade Crawford and Marvin for Melo if they cannot settle
mountain_jim
August 30th, 2010
10:36 am
Hey PD, the Falcons are on track to win it all way before the Hawks, who will not finish as high as last year until they rebuild again imho. Overpaying for the level of talent on the team, and not spending over the cap to fix the roster, is the cause.
Besides, the owners need to hear from and know about us long-time fans (35 years) and former season ticket holders, and how disgusted we have become with their ownership and bad stewardship of this franchise. I understand they are financially strapped, they need to really try and sell the team for until the Hawks get ownership with deep pockets and a clue they Hawks will never make it past the 2nd round, or apparently even win a 2nd round game.
Selling the draft pick, never bringing over the Euro players, and not paying for a decent center this offseason are all running us former fans off. Sund needs to use this Jamal situation to pull a rabbit out of his hat in a big trade that includes a good big man, imho, to have a chance to bring fans like me back around.
Halsey
August 30th, 2010
10:41 am
The Hawks need to make sure they will be able to re-sign Horford. They don’t want to re-sign everyone else and then not be able to afford to keep Horford.
Taylor Hanson
August 30th, 2010
10:43 am
How would the Hawks afford Melo? We are now bound for eternity to Joe and only Joe.
Buddy Grizzard
August 30th, 2010
10:44 am
“A weird summer for sure, Khao$. They kept Joe Johnson and still nobody seems thrilled about it.”
Not sure what’s weird about it. The Hawks will MAYBE get two good years out of that contract. I doubt Hawks fans would be gushing about it even if he HADN’T said he doesn’t care if the fans show up.
PD
August 30th, 2010
10:44 am
mountain_jim…….I agree with your ownership issues with the Hawks. The Falcons seem to get a pass every season because the people in Georgia are more NFL than NBA fans. I am fine with that bias that lives everywhere depending on what you like. Give me a break though……..The Falcons are not gonna win anything anytime soon. I think this team is still fatally flawed in the secondary and at the quarterback position. I think we have seen the best of Matt Ryan. I hope he proves me wrong.
@WreckBuZZ
August 30th, 2010
10:45 am
This is a dumb argument. Sign the guy to an extension that does not increase his 2010-2011 season salary. Jamal Crawford is a tradable commodity. So sign him now and worry about how he fits into the salary structure of 2011 and beyond next offseason. There would be a market for Crawford to contending teams that need a bench scorer. Any number of teams could use him. So there’s no need to go all panicky about this. Keep him happy now and worry about next year…next year. To me this is a non story.
gadawgs
August 30th, 2010
10:45 am
Who cares? I refuse to invest in this team emotionally or financially until they get new ownership that will do whats necessary to win.
5150 POAD
August 30th, 2010
10:53 am
Mark are you checking my posts? HAHAH Ok. With the first games in NCAA Football I guess you will start the year with a winning record of picking game. Pick 10 winners to get ahead early. Can’t wait to hear your Winners for this weekends games.
Khao$
August 30th, 2010
10:57 am
Because the Hawks don’t have the following of a UGA or even the Braves/Falcons for that matter, people are sort of blase towards the way the ASG does business. However, for diehards like many of us on this page, the constant barrage of bad news and/or lack of activity is frustrating. In any other market, this ownership group would be raked over the coals. I’m sorry, but after what I saw in the 2nd round vs. Orlando, changes needed to be made (besides telling Woody adios). We lost by the largest margin in playoff history. And when you think about some of the bad teams that have made it to the playoffs, that’s a huge blemish against a team that was the 3rd seed in its conference.
I can’t blame Sund solely because in truth, you can only do what your bosses allow you to do.
Dr. Warren
August 30th, 2010
10:59 am
The millions these guys make should be illegal, especially at their age, a stage when most young people are working in low-to-mid level jobs, sometimes two jobs at once. These guys are paid better than 99.9% of the fans, many of whom do far more important and difficult work. The owners are to blame, sure, but so is our out-of-whack value system, which hopefully will start to realign during this recession. Perhaps enforced by legislation, the leagues should restructure with strict salary caps, and if the players don’t like it, then they have other choices, such as taking their educations seriously and getting real jobs like the rest of us, or going to Europe like Childress. I don’t feel sorry for Crawford because he has to settle for millions of dollars even though he “comes to play every night” out on the court. The fact that underpaid journalists are justifying the entitlement of these overpaid young people shows how much the society has lost sight of the big picture. What is the big picture? That entertainment and the stars that circulate within it should be diversions at best. That excellence in education and non-political public service should be celebrated more than the addled comings and goings of uneducated actresses and heiresses with cocaine addictions, or basketball straw men who take their talents to South Beach, or owners whose hundreds of millions could literally rebuild the country rather than supply 20-something athletes with Lamborghinis and McMansions. From my vantage point here in the juggernaut that is China, I read about all of this narcissistic nonsense–after all, it’s usually featured center stage on the front pages of MSNBC and CNN. And I say to myself, we’re in trouble. We’re in big trouble. Jamal Crawford? Let him walk. And while the hapless Spirit Group figures out how to function without him, may I suggest we all pick up a good book–and instruct our children to do the same?
Gary O
August 30th, 2010
11:11 am
robdawg08,
The Knicks and Bulls were prepared to offer JJ 5 years, $93 mil. This was the max they could offer. If the Hawks offered him 5 years, $93 mil, then they risk losing him, so they offered 6 years, $124 mil.
Did they overpay? Yes they did. But it was either that, or let JJ go, promote Jamal, and hope he fills JJ’s shoes. I dont think Jamal can fill JJ’s shoes.
Mark,
Jamal should have been traded once JJ got resigned, Jordan was drafted, and Mo Evans said he was staying. I think between JJ, Mo Evans, and Jordan, the SG position would have been fine, given LD’s motion offense.
i_am_soulstar
August 30th, 2010
11:13 am
He’s under contract. If you can’t improve the team through a trade, then just play him. I see his point though. Reigning 6th man of the year, coming into a contract year. His value will never be this high again. But still, he’s under contract, so just play him.
For Real
August 30th, 2010
11:13 am
Mark: If you have any connection to ASG please hand them these trades so they can put the team up for sale:
Trade #1
Jamal Crawford and Marvin Williams for Carmelo Anthony
Trade #2
Mike Bibby, Al Horford and ZaZa for Andrew Bynum
Trade #3
Josh Smith for Chris Paul
New lineup:
PG: Chris Paul
SG: Joe Johnson
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Mid-Level Exeception
C: Andrew Bynum
The dollars works for all three trades and what new owner would not find this time attractive?
db11
August 30th, 2010
11:17 am
Pay the guy that effectively tells his fan base to kiss off… Don’t pay the guy who has said from the beginning “I’m happy to be here…” He is not asking for the farm. They gave Bibby 3 years when his decline at the time was obvious. Craw has at least 3 good years left in him… It is becoming increasingly frustrating to be a Hawks fan…
robdawg08
August 30th, 2010
11:18 am
Bullcrap that the Bulls & Knicks were offering $93 million to JJ. That’s what HIS camp was reporting. Its easy for your agent to say “THe Raptors are offering $93 for 5 years can you go a 6th to keep JJ /”. They played the Hawks owith words gainst no real offers.
MightyQuinn
August 30th, 2010
11:21 am
This is the next domino to fall after the JJ contract. The next will be Horford, and in two years, the Hawks may be JJ and a team of cheap help. And no playoffs. Then JJ will demand to be traded, the Hawks will have to eat a ton of his bloated contract to unload him, and we’ll be back to 15-20 wins a season. Thus saith The MightyQuinn. So let it be written. So let it be done!
Ted M
August 30th, 2010
11:23 am
Marvin Williams has been the downfall of the Hawks, even though they’re making the playoffs now, first with his waste of the second overall draft pick then with is contract.
truthspitter
August 30th, 2010
11:26 am
Rick Sund is a bum. He killed the growth of this team by resigning Marvin mainly, and Bibby and Zaza on a smaller level. Marvin should have been the guy they did a Chillz type sign and trade for, meaning they should have let Marvin walk for a 1st rd pick and trade exception and we would have been much better off considering the best case scenario is that Marvin develops. The guy has been in the league 5+ years and some idiots are still waiting on him to start to develop.
On the other hand, can’t cry over spoiled milk. We are screwed, there is absolutely no way that we can resign Al and resign Jamal without going over the luxury mark next season. We will be at $65.5 Million after resigning Al because he is getting a Boozer type deal from someone, that means he will be starting at about $13.5 million in 2011-2012, and we also have to pick up the option on Teague. That means 8 players, needing to sign 5 more with less than $5 mill left over, that means 2nd rd picks and minimum level players will fill out this roster next year. That means you better hope Teague and Jordan Crawford are some good.
Lastly, all we can do is hope for a trade were we get some top notch player back and make it to the Finals. Maybe then the ASG would go into luxury to bring the team back, but we really don’t have the assets to get Carmelo without giving up Al, Joe, or Josh. We are stuck with this mediocre bunch, just face it. Crawford is the least of our problems.
G'Vegas Dawg
August 30th, 2010
11:27 am
$120 Million for a bum and then we don’t have enough $$ left to sign the true difference maker. The Hawks are committed to excellence about as much as Lindsey Lohan is committed to sobriety.
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
11:32 am
Khao$, ASG does get a pretty good raking over the coals, more so than Liberty Media does even. But what good does it do? Incompetent ownership gets slammed in plenty of places, yet the ownership usually doesn’t change, and the owners don’t usually do any better job of running the team. There was plenty of venom directed at ASG early in the offseason, and some optimism regarding rumors they were trying to sell, but most people have just realized that not much is going to change about the way this team is run, at least not this year, so there’s not much sense in getting up in arms.
However, unless they make a major move, they could sell even fewer tickets this season than they did last season, which could convince them that trying to run this team is a losing proposition and push them to sell. Either that, or it could convince them to try to move the team to another market.
Saint Sparky
August 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Trade him ! Now we can at least get something in return ! My suggestion: trade Jamal and Marvin Williams to Denver for Carmelo Anthony. The contracts fit (Melo 27 mil, Jamal 7 mil and Marvin 10 mil), we would just need to find a way to extend Melo’s contract. What a team that would be: JJ, Melo, JSmooth and Horford ! Probably won’t happen as it would be too logical and smart, but we can put it out there and maybe Rick might consider !
reality
August 30th, 2010
11:35 am
Why are all these idiots covered in “sleeve” tattoos now? What a moronic look to have.
GT Alum
August 30th, 2010
11:36 am
For real, Chris Paul isn’t going anywhere. The reason the Paul trade rumors started were because New Orleans had another good PG in Collison. However, they traded Collison a few weeks ago, so they’re pretty much committed to Paul now.
King Teezo
August 30th, 2010
11:42 am
Truth, I hear you…The JJ contract is what it is, either we had to pay up for him or be the same team minus JJ b/c the Hawks COULDN’T use that money to sign anyone else…
But resigning Marvin (4yrs 7mil), Zaza(3yrs 4mil) and Bibby(2yrs 5 1/2mil) was the worst and nobody wants them dudes with the numbers on their contracts…Complain about JJ all you want, but I’ve been complaining about these contracts since they signed em…
Crawford is exactly the least of our problems, HE’S UNDER CONTRACT…
Worry about what you gonna do with Horford first n foremost…Peace…
JeJe
August 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
LOL @ ASG NEVER giving a player an extension before the last minute. They did this to Smoove and Childress and this really pissed off Smoove
Crawford is the best player on this team at pointing the ball in the basket. He’s probably the fan favorite after Smoove and is one of 3 players on the team who ALWAYS will give 100 percent effort (Horford and ZaZa are the other 2).
ASG SELL THIS TEAM U MORONS
JustAThought
August 30th, 2010
12:36 pm
If the hawks can’t talk Al into re-signing before the season’s over…..he will walk. Why would he stay in this crap, and if it was you, why would you stay?
T.C
August 30th, 2010
12:41 pm
Calm down PPL! Crawford will be packaged with Marvin, Bibby, and Mo Evans to Denver for Chauncey and Carmelo Anthony. All will be well!
Hawks 2011 Champs!
JustAThought
August 30th, 2010
12:41 pm
The little difference in the money would not be enough to keep any sane person from walking away when the opportunity presented itself.
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
12:44 pm
Al Horford would be a restricted free agent, JustAThought. The Hawks could match any offer.
Question Mark
August 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
I don’t understand some Hawks fans. Are you mad that ASG resigned Joe or that he recieved a max deal? I just don’t get it, the Hawks would clearly be 35-40 win team without him, so which is it because Crawford is not nearly the caliber player Joe is and many would prefer him over Joe, lol. He may be a dominant scorer, but he doesn’t pass, play defense, or rebound. Joe had to defend the opposing teams best perimeter player and be Mr. Offense for the Hawks, no wonder his numbers looked so bad in the playoffs after being double teamed and guarding the likes of P. Pierce, R. Allen, D. Wade, L. James, J. Salmons and V. Carter throughout their 3 year playoff run on a team with minimal offensive options. Give me a break, you guys will never be satisfied.
Gary O
August 30th, 2010
1:02 pm
robdawg08,
The Bulls would have offered him the max once they lost out on Wade. The Knicks were going to offer him the max, expecially after they lost out on LeBron.
Check the reports. It was a foregone conclusion that JJ would get max offers, so it didnt matter what his agent said.
Mark,
I think the Hawks will let Horford wait until next offseason before offering an extension. Because the CBA will likely lower salaries, so they can save money by waiting.
Mark Bradley
August 30th, 2010
1:05 pm
You could be right, Gary O. But they did offer Josh Smith an extension before his free-agent season, which he rejected.
NCBravesFan
August 30th, 2010
1:33 pm
Question Mark: I can’t speak for anyone else obviously but to answer the question posed in your post at 1:02pm:
It’s not any one thing the Hawks did this offseason – it’s the complete body of work coming off an historic playoff blowout (and two straight second round sweeps at that). Re-signing Joe was good and appropriate to me, but the ASG sold off their second round draft choice and implied that those funds would be used to get a veteran who could help the team. Sund was even quoted as saying the team needed a veteran presence rather than looking to the draft to improve the team right now.
They also said they were willing to go into luxury tax territory in order to improve this year, and then promptly backed away from that commitment when the major FA players were up for grabs.
If this was last year it would be one thing – but with that struggle against MIL and EPIC FAIL against ORL, fan’s perceptions are rightly suspicious of the team’s willingness to spend money.
Grumpy
August 30th, 2010
1:38 pm
It’s garbage like this that makes me less of a sports fan each year. The older I get, the more I find other things to do with my time.
Olik
August 30th, 2010
1:42 pm
Mark, why do you think the Hawks aren’t even in the universe of options people are talking about for Carmelo? There’s an article on ESPN listing 11 landing spots for Carmelo, and Atlanta is nowhere to be found. Normally the answer is that the Spirit Group is “cheap”, but the Jamal topic does bring the Hawks into the picture, yes? Any team that trades would need to give back salary close to Carmelo, so just “being cheap” doesn’t really answer the question. What’s the deal?
Pro sports stinks
August 30th, 2010
1:44 pm
What I hate is that you have such a disparity in the payscale. JJ is a great player, but is he rea
Ted Striker
August 30th, 2010
1:50 pm
1) Drew wasn’t a marquee hire but neither was Mark Fox at Georgia. I believe they hired the coach they thought was the best fit for the team and paid him what he’d take. Even if they’d been able to hire Doc Rivers (or Phil Jackson or coax Pat Riley back to the hardwood), there are no guarantees on the future, especially when it comes to sports. Get what you’re saying however not convinced Drew was strictly a money hire.
2) Crawford. Guy needs to shut up and play. Yeah, he’d like an extension and yes, he performed well, but at the point in time the season starts he needs to shut up and play. And if he dogs it on the floor I give 10% of whatever Crawford was asking for to Horford in addition to what I’d already give Horford. And publicly call out Crawford as selfish.
I’d respect that.
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
1:53 pm
We offered JJ a 4 year 60m dollar ext. before his last year, and he rejected it.
We had to pay JJ – The Bulls, Heat, Knicks, Nets, and maybe the Rockets were prepared to pay him the secondary max money. BTW – he is only a secondary max money guy – he didn’t get the full max like Kobe did – we do need to clarify that. JJ hadn’t been in the league long enough to get full max money.
We thought it was a coup signing Marvin last off season – now it’s a disaster? Why? He regressed, but we didn’t know he would at the time. He could have probably gotten more elsewhere, but wanted to stay here.
ZaZa is one of the most respected back up bigs in the league. We signed him cheap – look at Johan Petro, look at Darko, look at Jermaine O’Neil, look at the aging rapidly Brad Miller – we got a very good deal on ZaZa.
But he also regressed.
Woodson wanted Bibby. Sund felt he had to keep him. i would have preferred Andre Miller for just a little more. We re-signed him for 1 year too long.
And then Bibby also regressed. Why Bibby, Marvin, and ZaZa all regressed in the same year (as did Mo’ Evans), I have no idea. But when they signed their deals, they were considered very reasonable for the Hawks, except for Bibby.
Ted Striker
August 30th, 2010
1:53 pm
JeJe @ 2:11 — It’s only fair to point out that for ASG to sell the team, someone else needs to be willing to buy it. If you’ve got the cash, make an offer.
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
1:55 pm
The reason we overpaid for Bibby is because other teams needed his skill set – he was coming off of a very good season, and we would have probably lost in Free Agency. We paid him what the market was going for…
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
1:58 pm
If we offer Crawford anything above the MLE, with our cap situation, I would be shocked.
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
2:01 pm
Again, offer the Nuggets Jamal, Marvin, and 2 1st picks for Carmelo, and see what happens. We’re still below luxury tax (well below) this year with that deal. And we’re immediately contenders.
Move Mo’ down to the 2 to take Jamal’s spot, and sign Jarvis Hayes or Carney to back up Carmelo.
You might win yourself a Championship.
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
2:12 pm
And if the Nuggets want more than Jamal, Marvin and 2 1st picks for Carmelo, they want to much. He could just play out the string in Denver, and then get massively overpaid by NY or NJ even after the new CBA. And Denver would get nothing in return.
I would not trade Al or Smoove for Carmelo, not even straight up I don’t think. All these folks saying give them Smoove, Jamal and a 1st pick are willing to give up way too much in my opinion.
Carmelo only makes us contenders in my opinion if we keep JJ, Al, and Smoove while also acquiring Carmelo.
And remember people – Jamal will be 31 at the end of the season. Do we really want to overpay for 2 aging SG’s on the same roster? Isn’t 1 enough.
And Jamal is my favorite Backcourt player, and the only 1 I saw lay it all on the line against ORL. That’s why he shot 36% against ORL, because ORL basically found out he was the only Hawk giving his heart, so they double teamed him.
But business is business…
The Bishop of Basketball
August 30th, 2010
2:16 pm
A few points:
1. The Hawks should have signed-and-traded JJ to someone else, say, the Mavs (for, say, Caron Butler), signed Jamal to a 3 or so year deal and inserted him into the lineup at SG. But they didn’t, so now… we lose an asset. Which would you prefer: JJ alone or JC and CB (or equivalent)?
2. Hawks will survive this okay anyway even though they’ll lose JC, because the other JC (Jordan Crawford) is a serious, serious baller. I am so glad the Hawks got him…
The Bishop has spoken.
Dukester
August 30th, 2010
2:38 pm
I love Jamal and think all of the fans agree. But if ASG mess this up it will be the last straw. I hate to say it yes he must go we cant give contracts to him and JJ. I am on board with the Marvin and Crawford and a 1st round pick deal. I think its fair for both sides. I think Carmelo gets his wish of the big city lights. Denver will get a good scorer so they could compete this year. Marvin could play SF for them and they would have our 1st round pick. Denver would have 30 mil coming off the books so they could rebuild pretty fast.
Dukester
August 30th, 2010
2:54 pm
O Mark Bradley can you do me a favor and get grimey like the rest of the writers. Please write an article saying” Hawks have had talks with Denver about Crawford and Marvin and 1st rd pick for Carmelo” I mean it seems that it lights a fire across the nation and thats how trades happen. LOL Put a little pressure on ASG.
Tosh.No
August 30th, 2010
3:01 pm
Does it matter? Cut the guy lose so he can go lose somewhere else, unless he goes to Miami too. Not going to be watching basketball for a long time with the moves they made this off-season. Any of it.
Wolverine
August 30th, 2010
3:13 pm
If ASG were serious about winnnig they would simply trade Jamal Crawford and Mo Evans for Tyshaun Prince. I saw a few rumors that the Pistons are ready to rebuild so why not attempt to make it happen. Come on ASG…Give us something to believe in
Najeh Davenpoop
August 30th, 2010
3:13 pm
“Yes, the Hawks did draft a shooting guard in Jordan Crawford, but 26 players were taken ahead of him and there’s no assurance he’s not the 21st Century Roy Marble. This rookie cannot be seen as rotation-ready, meaning the Hawks can’t just trade one J. Crawford and hand his workload — the NBA’s sixth man of the year averaged 31 minutes a night — to another J. Crawford.”
If he wasn’t rotation ready, he shouldn’t have been drafted by a team that was set at shooting guard and had gaping holes at other positions. The Hawks drafted Damion James, who would have instantly pushed Marvin for playing time, and dealt him for Jordan. Sund’s decision to choose him makes extending Jamal a bad idea in the long run. The obvious move would have been to trade Jamal back in July for players who fill more pressing needs; as we’ve repeatedly seen from this directionless and clueless front office, though, there is little sense of long-term planning and the main focus of their moves seems to be short term savings.
I will say this though — after watching the Hawks’ summer league, I disagree that Jordan is not rotation ready. Maybe he won’t average 18 points per game like Jamal, but he will be a solid contributor given the minutes.
northcyde
August 30th, 2010
3:25 pm
Horford is the priority, not Crawford.
As great as a season as Jamal had, he struggled just like Joe Johnson did in the playoffs. In fact, his 36% FG shooting was even worse than JJ’s pitiful 39% FG shooting. JJ AND Crawford sold us out in the playoffs.
Most of us already know that the ASG was going to allow Crawford’s deal to either expire at the end of the season, or he was going to be traded at the deadline. Re-signing both Crawford and Horford will put us into the Luxury Tax, a place where this ownership has pretty much vowed to avoid at all costs.
You DO NOT give Crawford a long term contract, before you deal with Horford. If you do that, it may be Horford that is complaining about his extension ( especially if the Hawks try to “low ball” him, due to the fact that they have Crawford locked up long term ).
We can’t risk not being able to sign Horford, because some other team aggressively goes after him next summer. The ASG better keep in mind that a team could easily frontload Horford’s contract in an offer sheet given to him, which would force the ASG to pay more in that first year for Horford, than they normally would.
So instead of Horford possibly earning 12 or 13 million in that first year in his contract, he could be earning 16 or 17 million, in a frontloaded contract. Add JJ and Smoove, and you’re looking at the Hawks already being close to 48 million in payroll in a frontloaded deal for Horford, just amongst those 3 players.
Add 20 more million for the 5 players on the Hawks who have contracts through 2012 ( Marvin, Bibby, Zaza, Teague, Jordan ), and you’re already looking at the Hawks being close to 70 million in payroll, in a frontloaded Horford contract.
So if you we want to keep Al, we CAN’T negotiate with Crawford first. If we do, that may be an indication that Horford won’t be back here, unless the ASG, all of a sudden, decides that they are now willing to pay the luxury tax.
northcyde
August 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
SteveW . . . that’s BS. Jamal shot 36% for the same reason why JJ shot poorly. They couldn’t make the same type of shots that they were making in the regular season. Both Crawford and JJ were missing wide open jumpers at times and couldn’t buy tough lay-ups in traffic.
JJ is the captain, so he deserves to take more heat for our playoff meltdown vs Orlando. LOL . . but Crawford technically had one good game vs Orlando ( Game 2 ). He does NOT deserve to be praised like he was the only one balling in that series. The whole damn team sucked in that series.
King Teezo
August 30th, 2010
3:46 pm
northcyde
August 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
SteveW . . . that’s BS. Jamal shot 36% for the same reason why JJ shot poorly. They couldn’t make the same type of shots that they were making in the regular season. Both Crawford and JJ were missing wide open jumpers at times and couldn’t buy tough lay-ups in traffic.
JJ is the captain, so he deserves to take more heat for our playoff meltdown vs Orlando. LOL . . but Crawford technically had one good game vs Orlando ( Game 2 ). He does NOT deserve to be praised like he was the only one balling in that series. The whole damn team sucked in that series.
——————————————————————————
LOL @ the whole damn team sucked…lol…Ain’t that the truth…
And yea, Horford SHOULD be the priority right now, not Crawford, he’s not the only trigger happy shooter in the league…Peace…
tyger
August 30th, 2010
4:13 pm
Don’t Blame Crawford…contenders pay luxury taxes…duh!!!
Why shouldn’t Jamal ask for his money? This is a business, shouldn’t he be paid fair market value for his labor? Is he supposed to give his labor away or at a discount? Why?
Does he have a no-trade clause? No. Has ownership-mgt. guaranteed that he will end his career here? No. Then why shouldn’t he get fair market value?
He’s at his peak – NBA 6th Man of Year – and could’ve easily averaged over 20ppg. last season but deferred to JJ out of respect. Jamal is an intelligent player on and off the court. You never hear his name involved in foolishness. And in all fairness, the Hawks won 53 games, when they shouldv’e won 60 and many of those 53 were more b/c of Crawford than JJ or Bibby – two of the most overpaid Hawks.
You can’t blame Jamal for looking around the locker -room and not feeling used. Bibby’s getting $6M per, Marvin $7M per, JJ $18M per and neither is better than Jamal. Well, that’s the problem.
The solution is another story, which leads you back to the inept ATL Spirit – the root of all of our problems. Championship caliber teams pay luxury taxes…duh!!! Openly admitting your refusal to pay luxury taxes is an admission that your are not competing for a championship. Instead, you are riding the NBA economic bandwagon – we more like the Clippers than the Lakers.
durtyturd
August 30th, 2010
4:37 pm
The front office should be ashamed after this off-season. They are the laughing stock of the NBA at this point. Joe said screw the city and gets signed to an outrageous deal that pretty much will handicap the team for years to come. Maybe they are having buyers remorse and are gonna wait it out with crawford.
rusty
August 30th, 2010
4:39 pm
who the hell wants bibby,mo & marvin? that trio wouldnt get you a good steak ,melo are you crazy? why the hell did we give greedy ball hogging joe all of that money,he certainly didnt deseve it. he is a ball hog & an inconsistant shooter & i certainly dont want the ball in his hand in crunch time, jasmal is a better outside shooter,better going to the hoop, a better passer,certainly plays with more passion. we didnt have to pay greedy joe all that money,no one else would have. sund eats crap & has done nothing to improve this team
Top Magic and NBA news: Monday, August 30 | Outdoor sports, camping, tenis, golf
August 30th, 2010
4:41 pm
[...] Another Hawks dilemma: Pay Jamal Crawford or dump him?, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Mark Bradley The Buzz: “Crawford must be taken [...]
truthspitter
August 30th, 2010
4:46 pm
The Hawks have searched the garbage can and bout out Pap Sye.
http://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/atlanta_hawks
Gary
August 30th, 2010
4:47 pm
Looks like the beginnng of the end of the Hawks brief run at respectability. I see the Hawks taking a giant step backwards this season, maybe not even making the playoff’s if this type of decision making continues. It’s a shame, Hawks fans and players deserve better.
tyger
August 30th, 2010
4:49 pm
Adding insult to injury…
TBS settles the $281M lawsuit award of David McDavid, i.e. the ATL Spirit never should’ve been “given” the franchise. All this agony and turmoil from a group of trespassers. The NBA governors should “evict” them and award the franchise to the rightful owner, McDavid.
Rock Conner
August 30th, 2010
5:01 pm
ASG deserves the likes of Jamal Crawford, & ATL fans deserve better than all these clowns.
Kapoonka
August 30th, 2010
5:26 pm
Some of ya’ll tripping!!!! J Crawford was pretty much the only reason I watched the Hawks. He has an unassuming demeanor with the skills of an assassin. Have you ever heard him in an interview? He’s intelligent, thoughtful and a bonafide shooter. He has more personality in his little finger than yaaawwwnnnn Joe Johnson has in his entire body. I know he should be starting, but they are dead set on letting Teague start who still isn’t ready. Jordan Crawford ain’t ready for prime time yet just because he dunked on LeBron once. Oh BTW…I know LBJ is going to return the favor whenever meet in a real NBA game. Jamal Crawford is definitely a keeper, so they need to do do whatever to keep him. How many games did he win last year on final shots? How many did JJ have? Great sixth men do not grow on trees. As Ochocinco would say….child please!!!!!
RomeDawg
August 30th, 2010
7:06 pm
Trade his arse!! He was never a winner until he played in Atlanta. Jordan Crawford has the potential to surprise. Not saying he’s as good as Jamal, but he has some big time potential.
MostKnownUnknown
August 30th, 2010
7:08 pm
Sekou is aboard the melo to atl 4 jcraw train
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2010/08/30/summer-solutions/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
nash
August 30th, 2010
7:11 pm
The hawks might not be able to get carmelo. But what about a trade for J.R. Smith
Najeh Davenpoop
August 30th, 2010
7:22 pm
“You DO NOT give Crawford a long term contract, before you deal with Horford.”
I’ll take it a step further — you do not give Crawford a long term contract regardless of what happens with Horford. Signing one backup to a long-term deal when you just drafted another backup who is the exact same size and plays the exact same position the exact same way is just poor asset management. If the Hawks intend for Jordan Crawford to contribute to this team now or in the near future, signing Jamal Crawford to a long-term deal makes no sense. And if you presume that Jamal will be asking for Manu Ginobili money, you’re talking about $26 million worth of annual salary tied up in three players who all play SG — $28 million if you include Mo Evans at SG. That makes absolutely no sense for a team that refuses to exceed the luxury tax. Either you give Jamal a long term deal and trade Jordan — which isn’t feasible since you likely won’t get equal value in return for Jordan’s rookie scale contract — or you trade Jamal and keep Jordan.
Jamal is trade bait, and has been since Jordan got drafted. It’s just too bad our lazy azz GM and incompetent ownership didn’t make a trade happen already, before teams had more or less finalized their rosters for the upcoming season.
Najeh Davenpoop
August 30th, 2010
7:23 pm
And none of that is an indictment of Jamal Crawford as a player. I am a big fan of his and I’m not underestimating his impact on the Hawks last year. I am just saying that the Hawks’ decision to pick Jordan Crawford in the first round pretty much ensured that Jamal had to be traded. If the Hawks wanted to keep Jamal Crawford around, they should have hung on to Damion James.
DB
August 30th, 2010
7:34 pm
Here we go again…….please sell this team to Wyoming and let Atlantans go on and look forward to football. We will never be a Basketball town…..NEVER!!!!! I only hope the fans boycott this silly team and run them out of towm!!!!! FED THE HELL UP!!!
Roy Roger
August 30th, 2010
7:51 pm
Has anyone seen Sekou Smith’s latest blog entry on a potential Atlanta-Denver trade to satisfy Crawford and Melo? He presents a pretty interesting take on the situation and recommends a trade that would send Jamal Crawford and Josh Smith to Denver for Carmelo Anthony and J.R. Smith. As much as I’d hate to let Josh Smith go, considering he’s such an incredibly talented player with lots of versatility, you can’t really argue with the benefits that this type of trade would have on the Hawk’s team. This would give you one of the top 5 best players in the league, someone who could effectively become the primary scoring option and allow JJ to take a role as the second option, which he may be more comfortable with. This also makes the team more dangerous offensively as it gives multiple closers in close games. Not only that, but the Hawks would finally have the SF position solidified by moving Marvin to the bench, a role which I think he would be much more suited for. And, to top things off, this allows Horford to move to PF, a position which he finds to be more comfortable, for the majority of his minutes. However, I do see some potential issues arising from this trade.
Although you don’t essentially lose anything offensively (you actually gain offensive from this trade if you’re the Hawks), There would obviously be a bit of a hole in terms of post defense. Al will essentially have his position locked down, so I don’t worry much about him, but I don’t think the Hawks post defense would be as effective with someone other than Josh playing alongside him. Josh is one of the best help-side defenders in the league, and since Al is one of the best individual post-defenders, their skill sets complement one another very well. If you remove Josh though, who is left to cover the weak side and erase those extra defensive mistakes? I wouldn’t be comfortable starting Zaza at center, and I neither Powell nor Collins have proven to be anything close to exceptional on defense, so the Center position would most definitely become weaker if Horford moved to PF full-time.
This is where J.R. Smith comes in. He’s a streaky offensive player who can really explode for points on occasion, however, his attitude and lack of consistency seem to suggest that it would be best if the Hawks were to use him as a trade chip instead. I don’t think the Hawks will be hard-pressed for offense with a line-up that includes JJ, Melo, and Big Al in it. The Hawks could essentially package J.R. Smith and perhaps Bibby, Mo Evans, or one of the “third-string bigs” in a deal for a serviceable big man to start alongside Horford. I know a lot of this is hypothetical thinking, and Carmelo and Jamal would both have to actually want to play for Atlanta and Denver, respectively, but it’s fun to think about it. Imagine how much more publicity the Hawks would get with Melo on the team, and imagine how dangerous a team with JJ, Melo, Horford, Marvin, Teague, and JC2 could be now and in the future.
KevinM
August 30th, 2010
9:29 pm
Najeh, dead on! Sund had no clue where he stood with E#2, hence egg on the face with JC1 and JC2.
There isn’t enough bench slots to keep both of them.
Wanna bet LBJ wants to welcome JC2 to the NBA?
Roy, if you are moving anyone on this team to get Carmelo, its Marvin. Let someone else reap the rewards from a guy who never stepped up to the #2 or #3 offensive option. He doesn’t like the inside game and prefers to stand in the corner waiting for his jumper to show up.
I would hate to lose Smoove too, but getting a top 5 SF? Where do I sign? Al is more of a risk and more than Denver deserves knowing that they HAVE to trade him.
Perhaps a 3 headed monster, Marvin/JC1/Smoove….It will probably take Al or Smoove to peak their interest and then you have to roll the dice whether you could sign him LT.
We might have to take JR Smith off their hands…….but JR could get JC1’s minutes and be an instant contributor. I like that option. 6M is doable to bring in the risky Smith.
SteveW
August 30th, 2010
10:38 pm
Northcyde – I beg to differ – but I’ve been on basketball teams where most of your other teammates quit, usually due to daunting circumstances presented by the other team, and it’s no fun to be in that situation. You do all you can do, and realize there is really nothing you can do.
I think JJ quit during the 2nd round – between Matt Barnes and Peitreus guarding him, and a Free Agent contract looming – it just seemed to me that he deferred to Jamal, like here, you pick up the slack. Just my observations.
gapickett
August 30th, 2010
11:15 pm
Crawford and Marvin are from Washington State, Bibby is from Arizona. Melo and J.R. Smith are from the East Coast….So trade Crawford, Marvin, and Bibby to Denver for Melo and J.R., both are looking to get out of Denver.
Murph
August 31st, 2010
6:50 am
I remember when Sports had players with Honor! When you sign a contract it’s your reasonability to fulfill the contract, play hard and represent the team you play for with dignity and pride. I’d trade him to the worst team in the league!
Hawks moves mean pick Pape Sy will be at camp, will Jamal Crawford be? – ProBasketballTalk (blog) | Free NBA Videos
August 31st, 2010
10:31 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Keith
August 31st, 2010
11:52 am
Pay the Man!! Yes..Jamal didn’t show up in the playoffs but they wouldn’t have made it if it wasn’t for him during the season. Atlanta needs to stop being so cheap & decide if they’re going to play with the bog boys…which might mean to take a few million hits of the Luxury tax to keep this party going. They will have a major problem next year when they try the same cheap tricjk when convincing Horford to stay…he’s a bona fide star who will end up in Miami if they let him get away!!
JustAThought
August 31st, 2010
1:06 pm
MB…..just cause the hawks can match any offer to Horford don’t mean he won’t leave. Again I ask…..why oh why would any of you stay in this mess called the ASG.
JustAThought
August 31st, 2010
1:08 pm
Hey Murph……..I got a news flash for you……….the hawks are the worst team in the league!
Sleepy
August 31st, 2010
2:45 pm
As usual Northcyde trying to manipulate the facts .
Jamal started slow which is to be expected considering it was his first playoffs but against Orlando regardless or Northcyde trying to quote fg% as some type of indicator of how a player was actually playing Jamal played much better than JJ to try and use fg% to say they played anywhere near the same is basically a lie .
In game one in Orlando everyone came out flat
In game 2 In Orlando were came out slow again and Orlando had the early lead and we came back behind the effort of Al and Jamal . We started slow in the 3rd and jamal came in and went on a run again keeping us in the game and where was JJ? Thats when he really started to disappear
In game 3 coming back home jamal was 6-13 for 22 points while JJ was 3-15 this is when the home fans vs JJ crap started
In game 4 we started slow and we all sat here posting about how jamal was out there driving to the getting to the line and showing heart but where JJ . Jamal had basically singlehandedly cut a big magic lead to single digits after a ton of foul shots even getting fouled on a three .
So its amazing that Northcyde is now suddenly saying technically jamal only had open good game . The same BS Northcyde was pushing all year long .
Does this means Jamal should be paid ? heck no but there is no reason to start lying and making up stuff about the guy .
He was the 6th man of the year and in his first playoffs he gave us 5 games of 20 pts of more out of 1 games played . So hes not the problem the real problem is our starting lineup has ran its course and we are stuck.
We are even now to the point where we are a midlevel playoff team hoping that late first rd picks can save us and become immediate contributors when that is what teams usually vying for the title and so this franchise is just one ball of confusion now .jamal is just a small piece of it .
The one thing I just read is that Sund asked jamal to give us his player option last year to before they would agree to the trade and if thats true then jamal has every right to expect that we wanted him to be a Hawk longterm and I have a feeling that if this is true then the contract or trade demand (if true) would stem from that .
Dukester
August 31st, 2010
3:50 pm
@Roy Rogers Sekou didnt do his research first off Denver has about 3 PF now and if they added Josh they would have 30 million at that position Kenyon Martin 16 mil Josh getting 11 mill himself. Although Josh is better than Marvin!! Marvin could slide into that SF spot being a cheap young talent with a decent contract. Crawford would sweeten the deal because he is the best 6th man and he has a expiring contract. Or it would give the more flexibility to put him at SG and still compete next year. I would think they would want a first round pick also. Horford can continue to play center and hopefully we would find a real center to come in off the bench. Josh could back up Carmelo when he goes out.
PG Bibby/Teague
SG JJ/JC2
SF Carmelo/J smoove
PF J Smoove/Horford
C Horford/Backup center
Lets go hawks
Save on Soul Swingman Jerseys and More as the Clock Winds Down to Tip-Off | jwslbs.com
August 31st, 2010
7:01 pm
[...] Or maybe you’re enjoying following all of the trade speculation more, whether it’s Jamal Crawford, Rudy Fernandez or Carmelo Anthony. Either way, the NBA Season Tip-off isn’t far [...]
rusty
August 31st, 2010
10:41 pm
who the hell listens to northcydes crap. jj lover,woodson lover,teague hater, jc jater
Reggie
September 1st, 2010
2:17 am
OK BEFORE ANOTHER IDIOT SAYS TRADE MARVIN AND BIBBY AND ANYONE ELSE FOR CARMELO…ASK YOURSELF ONE QUESTION….IF WE HAD MELO WOULD YOU TRADE HIM THOSE GUYS? OK THEN….WHY IN THE H*LL WOULD DENVER TRADE A TOP 10 PLAYER FOR GUYS WHO ARENT EVEN TOP 5 ON THERE OWN TEAM!!!! STOP SAYING THAT GARBAGE CAUSE ITS WILL NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS HAPPEN!!!!! thank you
Dukester
September 1st, 2010
10:57 am
@Reggie I agree with the Bibby and Marvin that would be stupid. But Denver(reports say) has asked for 3 things for any trade for Carmelo. 1. That is young talented potential players (Marvin) I disagree that he has potential but in the world of the NBA I think the perceive him as a player like that. 2. Expiring contracts(Crawford) 6th man of the year. 3 draft picks Our 1st round pick for next year or whatever they negotiate. I mean should Hawks fans not feel like we have a shot at landing this guy when we have all of the material needed to land Carmelo. We are not a rebuilding team, We have the big city lights Carmelo is looking for. I mean do you think Orlando will trade Dwight Howard for him no. O ok so Miami will trade lebron for him. There would be no reason it defeats the purpose. It is very hard to get players like that so why should we stand by and watch.
BK
September 1st, 2010
11:58 am
This is juicy… AI to ATL as a solution to Crawford…
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/447466-allen-iverson-could-replace-jamal-crawford-in-atlanta
BK
September 1st, 2010
11:59 am
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/447466-allen-iverson-could-replace-jamal-crawford-in-atlanta
bjrufino
September 1st, 2010
12:34 pm
Guys, fellow hawks fans please don’t think that resigning of crawford is such a big mess. We need to support that idea because it is the a good way in keeping our core, and we need to give jamal an extension because if we don’t it will be an another rebuilding process next season or two. So come on guys please support.
Joe
September 1st, 2010
1:12 pm
Trade Crawford for either a pick or cap relief. Sign Atlanta resident Allen Iverson to take his 30 minutes off the bench.
Iverson’s been working out pretty hard all summer in ATL and he’s now saying he’s fine with being a bench player. Might as well sign him for the minimum (non guaranteed).
nate double dd
September 3rd, 2010
2:27 pm
i say pay sign crawford to an extension. Work a 3 team deal with Hornets and Nuggets. Hawks get Chris Paul and NeNe..Nuggets get David West, Bibby and first round Hawks. And Hornets get Marvin Williams and Carmelo..Im just sayin.. WOW. hawks starting 5
5.Nene
4.Horford
3.J. Smith
2.Joe Johnson
1.Chris Paul,,,,plus crawford as 6th man…..or somehow throw him into the mix too
nate double dd
September 3rd, 2010
2:35 pm
Enter your comments here
Atlanta Hawks: Which ____ford Will Get an Extension? – Bleacher Report « My NBA Video
September 3rd, 2010
6:30 pm
[...] with Al HorfordYahoo! Sports (blog)To Extend or Not To Extend – Jamal CrawfordHoopsWorldAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog) -ProBasketballTalk (blog) -Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)all 56 news [...]
eastlakeTB
September 3rd, 2010
8:58 pm
King Teezo, i feel you on the Al situation. Al & Josh are the heart & soul of our team. If we lose 1 of them, ’smh’, i dont even want 2 think about it .
lgwest
September 6th, 2010
11:03 pm
Go Braves! Take the Falcons with you.
Remember those words? No one is saying that now. Leave our other Birds alone, they will be OK.
Until the NBA stop chosing who win or lose, its good to have some sense of false hope! But I’m tired of being told I love LA Boston, or New York. We are paying fans too.
tlj
September 12th, 2010
11:55 am
I can see trading jamal if it helps the team, otherwise keep him. He is under contract for one more year and does not have bargaining power. If he chooses to be a locker room curse bench him and play the other crawford. Any disruptive action by him will only hurt his free agent contract for next year.
jason
September 12th, 2010
6:45 pm
this is my trade. trade jamal to portland for rudy fernandez and future 1st rounder
MitchC
September 15th, 2010
12:21 am
Mark, what you didnt specifically state, unless I missed it, is your opinion of what you think the Hawks should do.
Based on the info you gave us: It seems the Hawks have one of two alternatives. Either hold Crawford to his contract, and let him go at season’s end, or trade him before the season. If they dont have money to keep both Crawford, and Horford, or it doesnt make sense, because of the position, then the choice is clear. Keep the one they most need, and trade the one who is less important.
As you probably heard, the preseason predictions call for this team to take a step back, considering the championship roster in Miami, and Orlando still being formidable. The Hawks will probably finish no higher than third in the SE division, and will have a hard time approaching the 53 wins they had this past year.
B'Red
September 16th, 2010
1:51 pm
JJ is just not worth the money they are paying him.
Big L
September 20th, 2010
2:37 pm
The Hawks should have let Joe Johnson walked in the off-season. How can you pay a guy $120M that doesn’t show up in any games in the playoffs. And Jamal Crawford who is your 6th man off the bench leading the team in scoring. JJ has no heart and Jamal does. I would rather have the ball in Jamal’s heads in the clutch. When is the last time you seen Joe Johnson dunk? He is too soft, doesn’t show any emotions etc. The other mistakes they made was offering Marvin and Bibby a contract extension. The front office just don’t get it. They will make the 2nd round again and get blown out.