Venters gets docked and Braves fans vent: Spare me, I say
Prince Fielder gets a hug from Angel Hernandez. (AP photo)
I know from my Twitter feed that Braves fans are irate over the four-game suspension dealt Jonny Venters for plunking Prince Fielder — oddly enough, nobody seems all that miffed that Bobby Cox also gets docked a game — but here’s where I play Bad Cop and say, “Come on now. What did you expect?”
We’ll never know if Venters meant to dust Fielder on Saturday — MLB has QuesTek to assess balls and strikes but cannot yet read minds — but these things aren’t about intentions as much as appearances. And you’ll have to admit it looks pretty fishy when …
A player hits a home run and, his next trip up, is greeted by a pitch over his head. (The Braves’ defense of Venters goes thusly: It was a slider, and you don’t send a message with an 84-mph breaking ball.) The plate umpire then warns both teams not to throw at anybody else. And the very next pitch …
Drills the Prince in the back.
The moral of our story: If you’re going to hit a guy, try not to do it with the first pitch after a warning. That attracts attention. It all but forces a reaction from both the other team — two Braves were hit by Brewers’ pitching Sunday, including Jason Heyward with what turned out to be starter Manny Parra’s final delivery of the day — and from MLB.
Brewers manager Ken Macha griped after Saturday’s game that his hitters were being targeted, and umpires can hear/read. Surely that’s how Milwaukee’s David Riske got away with not being ejected when he drilled Troy Glaus on Sunday two batters after both teams had again been warned. According to Cox, plate umpire Scott Barry said he didn’t think Riske meant to hit Glaus.
And that tells us this umpiring crew — which also features Angel Hernandez, who ejected Cox and Venters on Saturday, and Cowboy Joe West — believed the Brewers had a case. (Fielder had also been hit on Friday by Tommy Hanson after Ryan Braun hit a home run.) As it happened, Milwaukee pitchers hit three Braves in the series to Atlanta’s two, but Venters’ two pitches were the ones everyone remembered.
And I know Braves fans will cry conspiracy — the commissioner lives in Milwaukee, remember — and will cite this as further proof the umps have been out to get this team for the past two decades, but every team’s fans feel exactly the same way. Except maybe the Brewers. They know Bud Selig will protect them. That’s why Milwaukee has won 14 consecutive division titles. (Wait. You say it hasn’t?)
Chances are Venters will appeal his suspension, and chances are it’ll get reduced a game, maybe two. But let’s not go all Pollyanna and pretend the good-guy Braves would never ever stoop so low as to hit somebody on purpose. Because sometimes they do.
I’m not saying that’s what happened with Fielder. I’m only saying it does happen. It’s part of the game. And now we move on.
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236 comments Add your comment
Charlie
July 19th, 2010
11:53 pm
Venters clearly hit him on purpose. Look at his body language after the pitch. We’ll never know what Fielder did or said to earn it, but I assure you he did something. Maybe Fielder ought to think about the fact that he leads the league in HBP. He seems to have a knack for ticking people off. That and he weighs 2 tons and can’t get his fat butt out of the way. Venters pays the price for needing two pitches to get it done. One and done, he gets a warning and finishes the inning. Two pitches costs him some dough and time. Maybe Johnny can work on that rib pitch over the next four days so he does it right next time on the first try!
tckr83
July 19th, 2010
11:57 pm
“The umpires acted stupidly.”
Brave New World
July 19th, 2010
11:59 pm
Anyway…
Looks like we will be 5 1/2 and 6 games up (respectively) by the end of the night. You can’t beat having a good night’s rest and gaining on the other two “sure-fire bets”. (All disrespect due to ESPN).
pittman
July 20th, 2010
12:01 am
you hit it right on the head its part of the game well the problem is that its 4 games i mean starting pitchers get suspended 5 games for head hunting which is just one start and venters misses possibly 3 apprearences
JR
July 20th, 2010
12:02 am
mr. basesball said “Why is it that the majority of times Braves pitchers drill some opposing hitter, it’s after that batter (or the preceding one) went deep?” Sorry, I call BS on this. Do you have any stats to back that up?
First, Venters was not trying to hit Fielder. There was no reason to. And why would he intentionally plunk him in the back right after a warning? Sorry, he’s not that stupid.
Second, Riske not getting ejected was baffling. How can you argue that Glaus getting hit wasn’t intentional when you just issued a warning for a HBP that appeared to be just as unintentional? How did Jason’s HBP appear intentional and Troy’s didn’t?
Oh My Aching Back
July 20th, 2010
12:10 am
I guess my last comment was offensive to someone
buddy
July 20th, 2010
12:13 am
Folks, for all you guys getting miffed at Bradley’s hot garbage, just know he writes for one purpose… to get you to read. Now some writers use common sense, credibility, insight, knowledge, respect for others, and logic to get their point across. Then you have a j c writers, like Bradley (stupid looking face, don’t forget) who is incapable of making sound judgment calls on how to write a solid piece, but hey, look who he’s writing for. If you let a stray pit bull in your house and get bit on your face, who’s fault is it. Again, hot garbage. Not really worth the read, but at least some of you know what’s up.
Angel Hernandez sux
July 20th, 2010
12:14 am
He hates the Braves. The suspensions stink and are not justified at all..I thought Bob Watson had half a brain. Too many Old Milwakees I guess.
The little bit@h manager of the Brewers kept whining like a broke mistress and requested the hitting of Haywerd and Glaus on Sunday. Pretty obvious to me.
What do expect from dumb Blue Neck yankees though?
I would have let Billy Wags pitch the 9th… Wink.. Wink…
Disappointed in the suspensions.. Very.
BraveFalconHawk
July 20th, 2010
12:20 am
Well that hurts our bullpen, with O’Flaherty out too. That’s not good. I think The Braves have a really good chance this week to stretch this division lead to 9 or 10 games. WE NEED HIM!!!
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
12:29 am
So Bradley, you are basically, calling Bobby Cox a liar, right?
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
12:32 am
This reads more like some Jeff Shultz’s junk.
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
12:35 am
Angel Hernandez is one of the worst umpires, in one of the worst crews in MLB.
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
12:45 am
Why would one of the best come from behind team, in the late innings, that team being in 1st place, in a tough race for their division, want to put another runner on base? They were in the late innings down by three. What kind of logic is there in a move such as that?
Mark Bradley, when is the last time, that you think a Braves pitcher, intentionally hit a batter?
The last time that I can remember a Braves pitcher throwing at a batter, was Glavine throwing at Dale Murphy.
Peter
July 20th, 2010
12:46 am
Well said………..So Bradley, you are basically, calling Bobby Cox a liar, right?
I think Venters is just wild……… I have seen him trow to the back stop before good thing the guy was batting right handed, because it looked like he was going to bean a lefty……..
He is just wild period, plus he is a rookie and I am sure could have been nervous.
ben
July 20th, 2010
12:51 am
Escobar hit ANOTHER home run today. Couldn’t we have waited till the trade deadline to make such a big decision?
Dan T
July 20th, 2010
1:04 am
The suspensions are ridiculous if the MLB is not going to do anything to the Brewers. They retaliated, therefore there should be no suspensions. It’s no big deal, but it does reek of BS.
Prince Fielder is a female dog anyway.
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
1:08 am
Escobar is trying to prove something in Toronto.
He had already proven something in Atlanta, that he didn’t give a crap.
He wasn’t helping the Braves to win, so he needed to go.
Good luck to him, but the Braves got the best end of the deal.
Escobar trade = dead-head culling.
Joshua
July 20th, 2010
1:10 am
The next time we play the Brewers, I say we have Jessie Chavez come in and bean Prince in the head on the first pitch.
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
1:13 am
Hopefully, the Braves will not have Chavez, the next time they play the Brewers.
GEORGIA
July 20th, 2010
1:27 am
go braves and mark has a small penis rofl….xwife told me
Michael
July 20th, 2010
1:45 am
@ BOB from SF, You don’t get credit for throwing at a guys head. 84 mph or not. No one has a problem when getting hit below the belt. If someone threw a pitch at the Braves batters head you guys would go crazy.
Michael
July 20th, 2010
1:47 am
@ JR he is that stupid!
VentersFan
July 20th, 2010
1:47 am
Mark,
I don’t blame the suspensions. Fine.
But make that road travel both ways. From listening to Don Sutton and Joe Simpson the radio out here in Denver, CO, the 10 minute conference on the field with Joe West boiled down to the simple rule that after a warning the next hitbatsman ejects the pitcher and the manager. Fine, ok. Intent or not I don’t anybody knows whether it was intentional or not by Venters and we never will. No point arguing it. I am not making that argument either.
But, come on. The VERY next day, Heyward gets beaned and a warning is given. Good right. So us Braves fans, at least me, is thinking OK good. The Brewers got their say so and “revenge” if you will, the next Brave they hit will be tossed no matter what because it will be subsequent to a warning. Then Glaus comes up to bat and lo and behold he gets hit. When I heard it I was thinking “Great job Macha, you just made yourself look real smart getting yourself ejected the next day after your whining.” But then something happened. There was no ejection. Me, Joe Simpson, Don Sutton, and Bobby Cox all had no clue why the umpires somehow redrafted the rule book over night and used a different rule book the next day.
Then this thing gets further dragged out by Watson for suspending Venters for 4 and Cox for 1.
Fine. But do it to the Brewers too. I think that’s the big issue here, not whether Venters hit Fielder on purpose or not.
I am in law school and if you match facts and circumstances and compare them to law, there is no difference. Simple law logic here: Hitbatsman, Warning, Hitbatsman, Ejection. Then you have: Hitbatsman, Warning, Hitbatsman, No Ejection. It just isn’t right.
VentersFan
July 20th, 2010
1:48 am
why does this website suck at posting comments?
Joshua
July 20th, 2010
1:49 am
crymeariver, I thought the same thing for a while. But I have come to see it in a bit different light. Chavez throws hard enough to be a good pitcher. I think eventually he will be an effective long reliever type as he grows in wisdom and plays for a great organization from which to learn. But perhaps his greatest current value is that he can come in and light somebody up when we need him to and we don’t have to worry as much about losing him for multiple games =D. He can be our hired assassin.
VentersFan
July 20th, 2010
1:52 am
Dangit, I just had a nice write up of the issue here and the board didn’t post it.
Anywho, it boiled down to this Mark:
I am in law school and you match facts and circumstances to law. So here we go with some logic:
Warning, Hitbatsman, Ejection: Hitbatsman, Warning, Hitbatsman, No Ejection.
That’s not a match and it’s not the rules. That’s my issue. I don’t care that Venters is getting docked. I care that the Brewers aren’t getting the same punishment for the same violation.
MLB notebook: Atlanta Braves player, manager suspended - Memphis Commercial Appeal - Read latest baseball news, shop for tickets and souvenirs - Baseball Sports Page
July 20th, 2010
1:53 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Joshua
July 20th, 2010
1:55 am
“In a stunning move in this first game between the Brewers and Braves this 2011 season, Bobby Cox’s replacement goes to the bullpen on the third batter of the game. And it looks like he’s calling for…the Jackal. Oh geez. Here comes Jackal Jesse Chavez. Oh and Prince Fielder eats a twinkie ball to the solar plexus! Unfortunately for him, as he was still in the on deck circle, he cannot be rewarded any bases.”
dawg
July 20th, 2010
3:55 am
wonder what secretary decided on this punishment and did she then have to go get her boss his coffee (4 sugars no cream)…??
TheAntiMe
July 20th, 2010
4:55 am
ben
July 20th, 2010
12:51 am
Escobar hit ANOTHER home run today. Couldn’t we have waited till the trade deadline to make such a big decision?
My question, ben, is why now all of a sudden has Escobar remembered how to hit? This pretty much proves that he quit on the Braves and had his head up his rectum.
It will only be a matter of time before Escobar gets bent out of shape about someone calling him out for not having his head in the game or not hustling and then he will start pouting again and quit on the Blue Jays, as well. I say good riddance to a chronic pain in the behind. Thanks, Frank Wren, that was one of your better trades.
Mitchell
July 20th, 2010
5:20 am
Larry
July 19th, 2010
6:55 pm
Could Cox serve his suspension in a deciding game in a postseason series? Hopefully, as our odds for a must-win victory would quadruple with him away from the dugout!
Great post. I like that one. Thumbs up.
I was thinking to myself recently… you know thing where you try to decide if it all came down to one game for all the marbles, or however that saying goes, who’s the one pitcher you want out there on the mound?
But then I came up with a twist. Same situation, Game 7 of the World Series… the world will literally cease to exist unless your team wins… who do you want to manage that game?
Would anybody in their right mind say Bobby Cox? I mean, you could think you were in your right mind but you’d really just be crazy.
I mean, dead or alive. You can pick anybody. I think I would have to go with Tom Kelly or Joe Torre to be honest. Hard to argue with that. Hell, I’d pick Manny Acta before Bobby Cox.
Sad but true.
MLB notebook: Atlanta Braves player, manager suspended – Memphis Commercial Appeal : Fun Warez
July 20th, 2010
6:02 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
Carolina fan for Atlanta
July 20th, 2010
6:11 am
Great posts about Yunel. Hard to believe he actually quit on the Braves. Not someone to have in the clubhouse. 2 HRs speaks volumes.
Chef Mentuer
July 20th, 2010
6:30 am
43RD!
Marc in FL
July 20th, 2010
6:52 am
Just for the record, I know several fat vegetarians.
MitchC
July 20th, 2010
6:57 am
I didnt see the game you’re talking about, but, it seems to me that if the Brewers guy plunked our batter, he should be suspended too.
I remember a game between the Mets and the then Montreal Expos in 1985. Expos pitcher Bill Gullickson threw a pitch directly at catcher Gary Carter’s head, and the ump let it go, and said nothing. The next inning, Mets pitcher Dwight Gooden, then in his heyday, threw a pitch at Gullickson’s head in retaliation. Gooden got a warning, and the game resumed. I have to ask why the umps didn’t warn Gullickson right after the pitch at Carter’s head? That was definitely intentional, and it was only like, “Well, after Gooden retaliates, NOW we’re going to warn everyone”.
The problem with the Braves situation is that Venters was stupid for throwing the “hit him” pitch on back to back pitches after being warned. Either hit the batter the first time, and get him, or forgettaboutit.
Hopefully Venters suspension will be reduced. He probably should get something, but four games is too much.
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
7:09 am
Venters threw a pitch that got away from him.
He did not try to hit Fielder.
Tweets that mention Venters gets docked and Braves fans vent: Spare me, I say | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
July 20th, 2010
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Gen Neyland
July 20th, 2010
7:54 am
The wayward slide, and I do mean wayward here, in an attempt to dismantle Gonzalez on a DP ball after the Feilder bopping was, hmm, interesting too…
MB : I had a post ejected from your blog following the trade of Escobar-Gonzalez. Did I throw one high and tight or did my reference of the Braves official scorer and Yunel ruffle someone’s war bonnet..? Either way, I feel my post was targeted. I’ve served my 4 blog suspension and now I’m ready to play. Hey, brush back posts are just part of the game…
John McGraw
July 20th, 2010
8:03 am
What’s the record for games suspended? Maybe Cox is going for that one, too.
Ohmagic
July 20th, 2010
8:04 am
The ejections after the game is over have to be one of the more dumbfounded rules in baseball. In the game, you eject both the player and the manager, in theory, because they both played a part in the shenanigans. But when the league suspends them both after the game is over and the player gets four games, while the manager gets 1, that seems a bit odd. You’re suspending the manager presumably because he’s culpable. And if that’s the case, the pitcher only hit the guy because he was told to. So in essence, you’re suspending the manager one game for the idea, and the player 4 games for the execution of the idea. I certainly hope they don’t start suspending players for four games every time they do as the manager instructs. I can see it now, “Atlanta infield suspended each 4 games after the shift was on”. Oh yeah, would that mean Bobby gets a 1 game suspension, or would he get 1 game for each infielder?
schroeder
July 20th, 2010
8:05 am
That is beautiful baseball.
If your player gets hit, you drill their guy. In 1991, Otis Nixon got drilled, and when Glavine wouldn’t hit Dale Murphy in the next inning, Nixon went after Glavine with a bat in the clubhouse.
Simple baseball. Back up your teammates
Let's Go Bravos!
July 20th, 2010
8:13 am
I hope we hit Fielder again in the first game we see against them next year!
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
8:13 am
Bobby has had the ejection record for over a year, I think over a year.
But he has the record, at 160 something.
Braves123
July 20th, 2010
8:15 am
@MB…you sure know how to start a bunch of people crying!
crymeariver
July 20th, 2010
8:15 am
But who would want to hit Dale Murphy, Glavine should have hit the next batter after Murph.
ATLfan15
July 20th, 2010
8:22 am
@crymeariver: I believe Cox’s ejection record stands at 156.
Fielder already knows that he’s a prime candidate for getting plunked. You crowd the plate and show up pitchers (especially with that mindless celebration last year). Don’t cry foul when you are egging it on by being unprofessional…grab a Kleenex and shut up.
Randy
July 20th, 2010
8:25 am
I’m a Brave’s fan, but I heartily – and happily – applaud the suspensions. There needs to be ZERO tolerance for this macho tit-for-tat in Major League baseball. I don’t care what uniform you are wearing, if you deliberately throw a baseball at another player, you are exogenous ooze.
ATL Fan
July 20th, 2010
8:37 am
Mark, Didn’t Glavine throw behind Murph and get ejected. If memory serves, I believe it was an inside offspeed pitch, then another, further inside offspeed pitch, and finally a behind-his-back offspeed pitch. And then the statement about how you can’t throw at Dale Murphy, he’s just too good of a guy.
lefty fielder
July 20th, 2010
8:37 am
yeah, but Randy . . . the princess has more tit than tat.