No Shaq and no more Hawks’ big spending? No shock there
Marvin Williams exults at news he's not Cleveland-bound. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)
For a moment, it appeared the pleas of most Hawks’ fans would be met in one swell foop — the team would add Shaquille O’Neal while shedding the unloved Marvin Williams. But esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham has since written that the Shaq-for-Marvin sign-and-trade “appears to be a non-starter,” and this morning Chris Tomasson of FanHouse reports the Hawks “are ruling out the possibility of signing [Shaq].”
At issue here isn’t whether Shaq would have fit the Hawks — my belief was that he wouldn’t have — but the reasons Tomasson identifies for the team’s non-interest. From his report: “A source close to the situation said Thursday that Atlanta’s ownership doesn’t want to exceed the luxury-tax threshold of $70.307 million.”
And this is where it gets maddening to follow the Hawks. The Atlanta Spirit insists it will spend whatever it takes to assemble a first-class team, and then we discover there’s a ceiling on “whatever it takes.” The Hawks said money wouldn’t be a deterrent to signing the best coach available to replace Mike Woodson, but lo and behold they wound up with Larry Drew, who figures to be the lowest-paid coach in the NBA in 2010-11.
The Hawks just worked a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, considered a prime bargaining chip, and they reaped this windfall: A second-round draft pick next summer and a monetary credit to be used on some future trade. (You’ve heard of the player to be named later? This is money to be spent later.)
It’s hard to criticize the Hawks for not spending in a month where they’ve made Joe Johnson the NBA’s highest-paid player, but with Johnson they had no choice. Credibility, both in the local marketplace and across all of professional basketball, was the overriding concern. But the Hawks entered the summer saying they wouldn’t stop with keeping Joe — they would aggressively pursue other big-name free agents.
Mr. Cunningham heard the same sentiments, but now he writes: “After [post-Johnson] indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.”
This, alas, is the way of the Spirit. These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them. But there’s no follow-through, and again you stop believing.
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308 comments Add your comment
Dap01
July 17th, 2010
12:40 pm
cory dillinger: Thanks for that most insightful post!
diamond d
July 17th, 2010
12:41 pm
i see the season unravel already… we will not come further in playoffs than we did this past season… isnt the goal to win a championship?? i will quit being a hawks fan if the asg satisfies themselves with being merely a decent team. THE GOAL FOR THE HAWKS SHOULD BE THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!! SO PUT TOGETHER A CONTENDING TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
diamond d
July 17th, 2010
12:46 pm
HAWKS FANS ASSEMBLE!! THIS CANNOT CONTINUE!!!!!!! I FOLLOW THE HAWKS EVERYDAY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS, THE PAST 10 YEARS FROM OVERSEAS, THE ABSOLUTE LEAST THING THIS MANAGEMENT GROUP CAN DO FOR THE FANS IS AIM FOR SPORTING ACHIEVEMENTS NOT FINANCIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bleu_Bayou42
July 17th, 2010
1:30 pm
Hopefully we won’t sign Shaq. You bring in Shaq and you bring in a combination of a circus side show and unrealistic expectations that can’t be met with Shaq’s current game. I prefer flying under the radar right into the East Championship game in 2011 with our current roster as it stands. No more moves. Sign Marvin.
B Hawk
July 17th, 2010
1:30 pm
The hawks—laughingstock of the league for that disastrous joe johnson contract—worse than the jon konkak deal years ago.
put together to achieve mediocrity
July 17th, 2010
1:41 pm
“I prefer flying under the radar right into the East Championship game in 2011 with our current roster as it stands.”
Don’t worry, the Hawks will be flying under the radar soon enough with a first or second round exit.
Bleu_Bayou42
July 17th, 2010
3:22 pm
Celtics are a year older. The Heat will have no bench. The Magic will be tough. B-Hawk you are a moron.
truthspitter
July 17th, 2010
3:23 pm
We need a starting level C and SF and possibly a starting level PG this team is going to fall to the 6th seed or worse in the east if we don’t get two of the three. We need to use Mo, Jamal, Bibby, Marvin, Zaza, and the trade credit to get it done. Biedrins and Granger are two players that may be available that would push us back into the eastern conference championship level
Rex D
July 17th, 2010
3:48 pm
As always, you hit it out of the park Mark. At this point, if you are willing to pay JJ as the game’s highest player, it makes no sense to hold onto relative pennies – and avoid making the other relative minor changes (cost-wise at least) in order to make the roster over. We needed Shaq majorly. We also needed either Childress back on the team – or something significant to show for him. This was our one and only bargaining chip for perhaps years, and we come away with a 2nd round pick and future cash?? Unbelievable.
James
July 17th, 2010
4:04 pm
Richard Jefferson is a free agent and Matt Barnes the hawks should be targeting them.
Bleu_Bayou42
July 17th, 2010
4:49 pm
I’m sure JJ would have accepted less money if it meant signing Lebron James and Chris Bosh with the Hawks. If Hawks didn’t sign JJ to a max deal another team (New Jersey/New York/Chicago) would have. By the way for you all you fans/critics that think the Hawks need a center I only have one question, didn’t Al Horford play in the All Star game as a center. The Hawks don’t need crap. The Hawks just need the season to start so they can shut all you haters and want to be GM’s up.
BravesFan86
July 17th, 2010
5:09 pm
mark, plz ask ASG Why they are AGAIN lying to the fans!!!! make them give u an answer!!
mc coll
July 17th, 2010
11:40 pm
I dont understand why everybody is so surprised by the hawks offseason moves. I think the 1st sign off a bad offseason was the draft were i think the really blew it. Dont get me wrong i really like Jordan Crawford but i think that Damien James was a 10 times better fit than Crawford.Then we top that off by trading the 31 pick you got in the Damien James trade away,when that could have been a another big, it was two 7 footer still on the board at the 31 pick. I Know the 2 7footers that was on the board at the 31 pick is better than R.Morris and M. west. So if you knew u was bluffing about not giving Joe the max deal why not take a big when u no when u sing Joe all the money is going to sign a legitment big man. ASG is not out 2 win that just want 2 say they own a pro sports team.The biggest then that sign the deal about ASG was u give all that money 2 a man who put down the people who put money in your pocket, yes ASG the fan. We are the 1s who buy the tickets buy all that high price food and beer. But you dont want 2 take up for your fan ASG. Joe still havent giving apologize for real. I just ASG dont care who the fan feel either or if the show up,because they wont to sell the hawks to the 1st thing smoking out of ATL.Look 4 the 2 be a little better. Dont get me wrong im not talking about the roster really, im talking about ASG and GM Rick Sund.Please will somebody with some pull in the orginazion please listen 2 the fan
nes
July 18th, 2010
6:16 am
Well, the only big center that is available besides over the hill Shaq would be L. Dampier who is 34 years old and will give much better quality minutes than Shaq. His contract is best to acquire as could pay him this year and FA next year and either re-sign or not. Trade a second round pick, or better yet, trade two second round picks as we always say can’t find a player to help the team win with a second round pick. Oh yea, ASG, this advice is free!!!
Hawk in Trade
July 18th, 2010
7:30 am
Maybe the hawks should offer to give joe johnson even more money to make him even happier! Instead of $120 million, bump it up to $140 million plus some benefits and perqs, including free limo rides to each game with a couple of damon evans’ girlfriends to make things best.
thrasherbelle
July 18th, 2010
7:40 am
Dear Hawks Fans,
Welcome to our world!
Signed
Thrasher Fan
Navigator
July 18th, 2010
8:12 am
My opinion is different than some, as I believe that no Shaq and than goodness!
possum jones
July 18th, 2010
9:50 am
Michael Cunningham & Chris Tomasson , IMHO, are both slimeball writers. Lemme tell you something, if I dont wanna pay Shaq $16M, I dont have to pay Shaq $16M. Just b\c you say, “well they dont want to do the deal b\c theyre being cheap” is not an argument for me to pay an overpriced Shaq over market value. I believe some in association are wanting to paint this picture of ASG being cheap, although perception is some people’s reality. It will be up to ASG to address this “new” perception that they are pinchin’ pennies instead of fielding a “championship” quality product at phillips.
psst…ted, leave those fake buffalos alone and get atlanta sports to its rightful place in this country. pleeeeeeese!
KevinM
July 18th, 2010
10:33 am
The 2 biggest needs this offseason: C and PG
How many years have we been saying this? This is getting comical and I fell sorry for the fans who pluck down the big bucks to watch this team every night. When you think things are going to continue to move forward and the ASG adds the needed pieces, more stagnation for the core we have here.
Obviously, we value Joe and Marvin and Bibby and Zaza more than the league does. Throw Smoove and Jamal in there as well.
jermaine
July 18th, 2010
2:24 pm
the owners are a bunch of kids that just don’t have a clue what the heck they are doing.
jimbo
July 19th, 2010
7:51 am
Atlanta is a big time city. Too bad the Hawk ownership think it’s team is a small market team.. there is no reason why we shouldn’t be attracting big time player… The Hawk just suck and always will. GO BRAVES AND FALCONS!!!!!
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
12:32 pm
I’m not so dissappointed about Shaq or Brad Miller. I want to see what we get for our 3 remaining slots. If we’re going cheap we’d best invest in a young prospect who’s hungry and actually give him a chance. I’d say find a home for Bibby & Mo and even Jamal Crawford in an attempt to sign a real post presence who’s 30 or younger. Someone with upside and energy. We need to run with LD. We’ve got some new prospects that can help us do that. I’ll live with the result as long as we’re growing. Losing in the second round with the same team over and over again to me is fruitless. I’d rather lose in the first with emerging talent or have the chance to push it over the top and have a group that could sustain a run.
With all that said I do also believe that Mike Bibby could be alot better this year given the fact that LD might actually run offensive sets that might end up with Bibby shooting good shots in the flow of the offense like he did when he first came. The Jamal & Joe ISO just took everyone out of rhythem on offense. It’s easy to defend that kinds of crap. That’s why we made such an early exit. Teams clamped down on Joe and Jamal and the rest of the team didn’t give the effort b/c they weren’t involved.
Talkin' Bout Shaq
July 19th, 2010
12:35 pm
Give shaq a max deal, or he may sign with detroit or maybe boston.
Disappointed
July 19th, 2010
2:38 pm
Shaq might’ve been the only way the Hawks could’ve ever gotten me back to a basketball game. Been to 3 Hawks games in my 30 years, but never paid for a single ticket, always a promotional free ticket or a friend’s dad paid when I was like 7. When I heard they might sign Shaq tho, I fully intended to change that.
Long story short, I disowned the Hawks when they traded ‘Nique when I was 10. Family moved to Chicago, wound up a good time to follow the Bulls. Shaq gets drafted, Magic became my #2 team. Bulls said eff you to Jordan, I said eff you to Bulls. Followed Shaq to LA, watched every game I could. LA said eff you Shaq, I said eff you LA. Hated the Heat, couldn’t find another team I cared for, so bye-bye basketball altogether.
This signing could’ve changed everything. As it stands (and aside from the occasional NBA Finals game), I may not ever watch a basketball game again.
Fundamentals
July 19th, 2010
5:19 pm
Sounds like a fairweather if I’ve ever seen one. Sorry you’re dissappointed, but seems you never committed to the Hawks so why should they care?
James
July 19th, 2010
11:56 pm
Joe Johnson is hurting the team he should have opted to take less money so that the team could have gotten some more players on the team to help out. Joe cares more about money than winning though so the hawks are left with a bad contract and is going to drop way down in the playoff standings.
rudy
July 20th, 2010
6:30 am
as a fan,im so disppointed with the hawks front office decisions this offseason….playoffs will become no fun to watch in ATL
mm
July 20th, 2010
1:46 pm
that 5 we traded away at #33 would sure be nice to have now…
hatfieldgeoff
July 20th, 2010
2:55 pm
The Hawks Ownership all inhereited their money. Why do rich people buy things they cannot afford? Just so they can screw them up. With a savvy, knowledgeable owner this team could make a run at the championship. With the Owners they have they probably already peaked.
Gmoney
July 20th, 2010
3:06 pm
I think it is time for the fans of ATL to start to recognize that ever since the ASG took over the team we have won more games each year over year. To me that shows somebody knows what they are doing and someone should recognize that there are a heck of alot of cities out there who cannot even consider the playoffs. How about being a Cavs fan today? We signed JJ, we have Al and Josh, we have the 6th man of the year and now just hired a coach who has an offensive game plan. Shaq? Did anyone on this board watch him play last season? He was terrible and can barely get up and down the court. How about coming to some games? the team is fun to watch and has a ton of energy and guys we can cheer for to boot.
Anthony
July 21st, 2010
4:39 am
Hawks, get a center get Shaq, get Kwame Brown for a back up center or power forward, just get a center and a PF for a amount thats decent.
True Hawks Fan
July 21st, 2010
2:07 pm
We need to pick up Anthony Tolliver. I watched the Warriors games last year because of Steph Curry. Tolliver’s a baller.
Sleepy
July 22nd, 2010
12:00 pm
I dont know whats sadder hawks fans trying to justify not trading Marvin for Shaq
or
the fact that everyone seems to forget that both Joe and Josh had proverbial individual mental breakdowns in the playoffs last year and at this point why should we believe they will ever recover as neither one believes what happened last year was a big deal .
This is team is in trouble and if people have a problem with cynics and skeptics now wait until it hits the rest of the masses that the hawks basically blew it this offseason .
JerryWest
July 22nd, 2010
3:29 pm
SHAQ- Please play 20 games+playoffs for the Hawks for as many years as you want
We’ll treat you like a starting pitcher+minimum practice=longetivi
Rono
July 25th, 2010
1:39 am
Yahoo Sports is reporting, it’s a done deal for Josh Powell to Atlanta. Shaq could still be added too???
3Klub
July 26th, 2010
11:42 am
3Klub Your comment is awaiting moderation.
July 26th, 2010
11:08 am
I have a friend in Detroit. Accorging to Detroit new atlanta is discussing a trade Tayshaun Piince for either Josh Smith or Horford. Doesnt sound legit to me though and wouldn’t help either team. It says that they’re looking to make this move to reduce salery due to Joes contract.
KevinM
July 26th, 2010
7:30 pm
Tayshaun to Atlanta for Smoove saves after this year, but not before.
They still have to deal with Al’s contract and JC1 is trying to get in there before the $$ is gone. I can’t blame him one bit with this labor agreement threatening the 2011 season.
Would you be surprised if we find out that the ASG is only willing to gurantee Shaq for one year? It would not surprise me in the least. I dont’ think you want to move Zaza unless you get ’something’ in return. We could easily add 2 more guys to the roster.
Will we be injury free next year? I don’t see that being realistic. We need that depth to prevent such a situation.
Sick & Tired Of Being Sick & Tired
July 26th, 2010
8:55 pm
The Hawks won’t be serious contenders until the current ownership group sells the team to someone who has a clue. Signing Joe Johnson to a long terms high priced deal was a huge mistake….he is not the answer to why the team can’t make it past the first few rounds of the playoffs.
rawdog
July 27th, 2010
7:04 am
Why not go after McGrady? He could fill the void at small forward and could be gotten on the cheap.
Greg
July 27th, 2010
7:13 am
1. Can’t shoot FT’s
2. Can’t run the floor or maybe will not run the floor
3. Plays lazy
4. Wants more money than he is worth
5. Wants a promised starting position
Add in the fact that he is so out of shape and what championships did he bring to Phoenix or Cleveland?
No, the Hawks do not need “Slack O’Neal”
RWebb
July 27th, 2010
10:29 am
Frankly, Joe Johnson is a solid player but he
not worth $123 millions. Joe is an above
average scorer, at best, average passer and
rebounder and not very good defensive skills.
Long or short term, this was not the best deal
for the Hawks.
I think if the Hawks should have
worked a sign and trade with Dallas for Caron
Butler and signed and trade with Cleveland for
Shag and aggressively pursued and signed Josh
Childress. If these transactions could have been
worked out, the Hawks will be a more competitive
team.
Andy
July 27th, 2010
11:15 am
JJ’s contract is the worst in this summer. He doesn’t worth to be the highest paid free agent. Agreed the Hawks had no choices but still we need more post presence so Al can play his natual 4. Shaq want to start, which understandable. Let him start and trade him w/ Marvin, then Al start at 4 and Josh on 3. Totally make sense..just hope Shaq can take a pay cut (he’s not worth $8M per year!) then we may able pass the 2nd round.
Andy
July 27th, 2010
11:15 am
JJ’s contract is the worst in this summer. He doesn’t worth to be the highest paid free agent. Agreed the Hawks had no choices but still we need more post presence so Al can play his natual 4. Shaq want to start, which understandable. Let him start and trade him w/ Marvin, then Al start at 4 and Josh on 3. Totally make sense..just hope Shaq can take a pay cut (he’s not worth $8M per year!) then we may able pass the 2nd round.
Andy
July 27th, 2010
11:15 am
JJ’s contract is the worst in this summer. He doesn’t worth to be the highest paid free agent. Agreed the Hawks had no choices but still we need more post presence so Al can play his natual 4. Shaq want to start, which understandable. Let him start and trade him w/ Marvin, then Al start at 4 and Josh on 3. Totally make sense..just hope Shaq can take a pay cut (he’s not worth $8M per year!) then we may able pass the 2nd round.
Teezo
July 27th, 2010
4:11 pm
Shaq is not the answer, he is one of my favorite players, but with what the Hawks already have, they need an athletic center that is used to coming off the bench, play defense, and rebound since they are set on Horford being the starting center…Or find them a dominant PF (should have went after A. Jefferson) to compliment Horford…Horford holds his own, its just he needs help in the paint…What the Hawks really need is a 2nd scorer to compliment Joe…Everybody bashes Joe, but where would the Hawks be without him (lottery bound every season), so yes, he deserves every bit that the Hawks gave him, now they just need to give him help and surround him with some players that can score, not players that wanna show up to play when they feel like it…Peace…
Barry
July 28th, 2010
8:55 am
Hey Y’all:
we need a CENTER!!! Point Blank!! WE NEED A CENTER. We have a great nuclues at guard and forward. Joe and Jamaal Crawford can hold there own with any guard in the NBA. Bibby can too. The question is still out on Teauge and of course, the rook, Crawford. But those two can play ball. So were are loaded at the guard position. Josh and Horford are great. Our problem is at CENTER. We do not have a physical, finnesse center that can intimidate other centers in the leauge. ZaZa is not a threat. And Horford should never be playing CENTER. HE IS A FANTASTIC, GREAT, POWER FORWARD, WHO CAN DO IT ALL. SO IS JOSH SMITH. WE NEED A CENTER!!!! WE NEED A BIG CENTER TO COMPLEMENT OUR YOUN GUNS UNDER THE BOARD. IF SHAQ IS AN OPTION LET”S GET HIM. WE NEED TO DOMINATE IN THE MIDDLE WITH THE LIKES OF HOWARD,GARNETT, LEBRON, AND OTHERS WHO CAN DISRUOT THINGS DOWN LOW. HORFORD, JOSH, AND SHAQ WOULD BE AWSOME DOWN LOW. Combined with our guards, man things would be “POPPING!!”. I say “LET’S GET SHAQ”. Let’s show the leauge we are forrreal in our efforts to bring a winner to ATLNTA. I do not believe the SHAQ experiment il fail. SHAQ AIN”T NO JOKE ON THE COURT. AND THAT IS WHAT WE WANT HIM ON THE COURT FOR:TO PLAY BASKETBALL!!
GET SHAQ!!
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a SECRET from a HAWK FAN. TELL EVERYBODY!!!!!!!
………………….”SHOCK THE WORLD!!”……………..
James
July 29th, 2010
6:22 pm
I’m sick of being a hawks fan especially since they don’t care about winning. Go Heat!
Ol Skool
July 30th, 2010
12:26 pm
The Hawks are the team that makes the most sense for Shaq based on their needs and what happened in the worst blowout differential in a 4 game sweep in the history of the league. Shaq ain’t the Shaq he was a few years ago. But in order for the Hawks to stay relevant in the East they need someone with Shaqs presence and at least equal to his CURRENT skill set. Shaq had decent games against Dwight this year with the Cavs. He has never been an effective defender against the pick and roll. But everybody don’t have Tim Duncan. So yes, Hawks get off your tushes and sign the Shaqtus.
Alvin
July 31st, 2010
9:29 am
Hawks Management are trying to take the slow boat to a champship. They are being cheap when the is at best a two round playoff team. Some of that is because the rest of the east is weak. Out west the Hawks possibly would not make the playoffs with what they have. The Hawks signed a unproven coach because they are so concerned about money. They would not sign a old veteran in Shaq, but that veteran could given 20 mins a night in late part of the season as you head in to the playoffs when you need him the most. Teams traditionally do not win the championship without a true center. The hawks management think they have 5 or ten years to win a championship. Your championship window is small you have to make quick solid moves that will get you to the championship in two years not 5 years from now. Until management changes their approach the hawks will never be better than first or second round.
Derek
July 31st, 2010
12:15 pm
I have never believed anything the ASG has to say. I finally accepted the fact that they don’t really want a championship basketball team in Atlanta. They seem to be happy making the playoffs and settling for a 1st or 2nd round exit. I just think they’re happy with mediocrity. That’s not fair to the Al Horfords of the world who give their all every night for no real return on their hard work.