No Shaq and no more Hawks’ big spending? No shock there
Marvin Williams exults at news he's not Cleveland-bound. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)
For a moment, it appeared the pleas of most Hawks’ fans would be met in one swell foop — the team would add Shaquille O’Neal while shedding the unloved Marvin Williams. But esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham has since written that the Shaq-for-Marvin sign-and-trade “appears to be a non-starter,” and this morning Chris Tomasson of FanHouse reports the Hawks “are ruling out the possibility of signing [Shaq].”
At issue here isn’t whether Shaq would have fit the Hawks — my belief was that he wouldn’t have — but the reasons Tomasson identifies for the team’s non-interest. From his report: “A source close to the situation said Thursday that Atlanta’s ownership doesn’t want to exceed the luxury-tax threshold of $70.307 million.”
And this is where it gets maddening to follow the Hawks. The Atlanta Spirit insists it will spend whatever it takes to assemble a first-class team, and then we discover there’s a ceiling on “whatever it takes.” The Hawks said money wouldn’t be a deterrent to signing the best coach available to replace Mike Woodson, but lo and behold they wound up with Larry Drew, who figures to be the lowest-paid coach in the NBA in 2010-11.
The Hawks just worked a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, considered a prime bargaining chip, and they reaped this windfall: A second-round draft pick next summer and a monetary credit to be used on some future trade. (You’ve heard of the player to be named later? This is money to be spent later.)
It’s hard to criticize the Hawks for not spending in a month where they’ve made Joe Johnson the NBA’s highest-paid player, but with Johnson they had no choice. Credibility, both in the local marketplace and across all of professional basketball, was the overriding concern. But the Hawks entered the summer saying they wouldn’t stop with keeping Joe — they would aggressively pursue other big-name free agents.
Mr. Cunningham heard the same sentiments, but now he writes: “After [post-Johnson] indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.”
This, alas, is the way of the Spirit. These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them. But there’s no follow-through, and again you stop believing.
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308 comments Add your comment
no justice
July 16th, 2010
5:28 pm
Later when shaq and all his atl fans realize that he is not a super star any more maybe he will take the mle and become a piece on a winning team. Or he can become an over paid mal-content on a losing team. As for us being the laughing stock of league, how is that difference the last three years. eventough we won more games than 70% of the league. yall problem is your opinion of the hawks come from the bias media not from you Hawk Fans. Maybe you should examine your commitment to the team and look up the definition of fan. How could anyone who call himself an informed basketball reporter or fan think that this would be a good deal now and in the future. Shaq won’t last a year with any team.
tjhook
July 16th, 2010
5:41 pm
Mark,
someone asked you what Kwame Brown was asking for and you never gave a response. Just was curious about what was being asked for. By the way,the Hawks absolutely need a post prescence . . . and Shaq would be worth the investment.
tony
July 16th, 2010
5:51 pm
Cleanshot, fans don’t fill the stands because they don’t want to watch GARBBAGE! Who want to pay money to watch JS shoot BRICKS? Who want to pay money to what MW trip over himself every time he drives to the basket? Who want to pay money to watch JJ dribble the ball every 20 seconds? Who want to pay money to watch some1 who could careless if I came to the games or not? Only you and the rest of those BUZZARDS want to watch that GARBBAGE! Put a smart basketball team on the floor and players who appreciate the fans….. only then will I pay my money to watch them play.
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
5:54 pm
@ Tony
Thank You I could not have said it Better
MrHughes
July 16th, 2010
6:01 pm
What is it with the Chicken Little syndrome. The reality is that we don’t know what we have.
Teague looks good in summer league play. His up tempo style along with LD’s motion offensive will make us a better team. JC2 call straight out ball. Why give up your young starting SF, who’s been the 3rd option on your team for a guy that should have retired 2 years ago. Lets think… Miami got worse with Shaq in the lineup. Shaq along with the loss of JJ almost destroyed the Suns franchise. They just recovered from that one. Cleveland, those cats got worst two. And, you want to take a guy that’s capable of putting up 20 a night for a player who’s now basically a fat dude that will stand in the lane and won’t get out on the break. Shaq was great when he was in Orlando and LA. He was serviceable in Miami. His skills have declined.
Lastly, I love how there’s all this conversatio about how someone else should spend their money. You are the same people I see winding around the building a McDonald’s buying value meals or dollar cheeseburgers instead of eating more expensive food.
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
6:02 pm
Well if those who call themselves ‘fans’ believe the ASG should pay more than the MLE for Shaq and less than the max for your ONLY ’superstar’ JJ who could have went to Chicago/Miami/NY/NJ? Well I’m with JJ, the heck with those fans!! Again, that make no sense.
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
6:08 pm
@ MsDee
Shaq is a 4 time NBA Champion who can still play at 38
Joe Johnson is an all star not SUPERSTAR who can’t even carry his team to a second round win in the playoffs at 29
no justice
July 16th, 2010
6:18 pm
shaq was on a team with the king and his momma and got drugged by orlando again. Matter of fact he got drugged by j. noah in the chicago series
NCBravesFan
July 16th, 2010
6:25 pm
Couple of things: if you drew a diagram of the worst way to have an offseason after a 2nd round blowout, this would appear to be it. I’m not sure how re-signing Joe makes any sense at all if we were going to try the same approach on signing players (cheaply) as in past years.
Also, with the way things ended last season and the way things are apparently coming together this offseason, I’m not quite sure what the motivation is for people to buy tickets to see this team.
♥Mz. Hawkdafied♥
July 16th, 2010
6:39 pm
Whatever, lol!
Alpha
July 16th, 2010
6:41 pm
Omega
Dennis G. Berdanis
July 16th, 2010
6:53 pm
Good article Mark. ASG are little boys pretending to be owners.
tony
July 16th, 2010
7:21 pm
Real Talk, I’m with you 100% BRING SHAQ to the ATL. Who cares what the BUZZARDS saids about SHAQ.
JoeBrave
July 16th, 2010
9:07 pm
FCUK, the ASG, and Liberty media, they don’t want to spend no G@ddamned Money, well m@therf&kers I won’t either, ki$$ my A$$ sunsabitches!
jojatek
July 16th, 2010
10:13 pm
Where is Ted Turner when you need him??!!! C’mon, Ted… you need a hobby right now…
Jake Wolfe
July 16th, 2010
10:38 pm
I am so disappointed in the hawks organization but maybe matt barnes signs with atlanta.You never know this is a quote from him “2maro is the day. I will let my fans know where I’m going to sign. Its gonna SURPRISE you!!!! Keep it locked..,” end quote.The hawks could also get shannon brown might come to atlanta but dont give up on shaq!You never know.
no justice
July 16th, 2010
10:54 pm
No Shaq and no more Hawks’ big spending? No shock there
No shock that you are once again criticizing before the dealing’s done. at least wait until the signing and trade periods are over
hawks fan
July 16th, 2010
10:57 pm
will everyone please stop bad talking joe johnson! joe was the best thing we could get this summer. if he would have left, weather sign and trade or not. we wasnt going to get a player of his caliber in return. although i think he should have took less money. i realize the hawks didnt have much of a choice unless they want to take a step backwards. and when joe is not playing up to par, we as fans should cheer him on and help get him going instead of booing him which kills confidence. not to mention all the things he has to do on the floor. guard the best players and run the offense.and take all the heat when we lose…….
hawks fan
July 16th, 2010
11:01 pm
if i see another person mention kwame brown (who has done absolutely nothing since he been a pro) im going to scream!!!!!!!!!!
northcyde
July 16th, 2010
11:16 pm
They could’ve solved the fan apathy issue, plus our big man issue in one swoop by signing Shaq . . . and they didn’t do it. To believe that Shaq wouldn’t have a positive impact on the Hawks, plus a positive impact at the gate, is just flat out not paying attention to what kind of a presence he is.
Shaq would’ve allowed Al Horford to play his natural position ( PF ) a lot more, thus, saving him from the pounding that he takes on a nightly basis playing center. This maybe makes him a much more dangerous player.
And his box office effect, not to mention our possible exposure on national TV ( especially on TNT ), may have seen us secure 5 extra national TV games.
Shaq is still one of the top 5 most popular players in the league. And he’s still one of the top 10 centers in the league. And if you disagree with that statement, name 10 centers who are better than Shaq? Bet you can’t do it.
OMG
July 17th, 2010
12:20 am
The complaining on this blog is astonishing, you would think you have a lottery team that won 13 games! You would think you have a team with no All Stars. Ask any non playoff team if they would take the Hawks in their town. You have a young exciting team that won 53 games and was in the 2nd round of the playoffs. You have a team with the current 6th man of the year, an all star Center, a 4 time Allstar guard with numbers comparable to Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade, You have one of the most exciting and athletic players in the league, second only to Lebron in JSmoove. We’ve just drafted a junior version of Jamal Crawford, you have a lightening quick guard in training under the guidance of a coach that believes in ball movement and utilizing the athleticism this team possesses in spades. You have a team that was money at home, dazzling the crowd with nightly ESPN highlights. A team that owned the NBA finalists Boston Celtics. Instead of being grateful you are not NY, Washington, Memphis, Clippers, heck Cleveland you just wallow in negativity. Fortunately there are alot of people who realize what we have here in the ATL and we have better things to do than spew vitriole and negativity. I dare say 99% of the complainers on here have never bought a ticket. And If you have bought one, and didn’t appreciate the excitement at Philips you should pick another sport or another team. And if you think Joe was paid too much, you don’t understand the business of basketball. Joe would have been offered max money (less one year) by many teams and the Hawks would have had to replace him with an inferior player. Some of you would complain about that scenario if it had transpired. One minute the ownership are cheap, the next they overpay. You just complain about everything OMG, how pathetic some of you are! I feel sorry for anyone who are exposed to your negativity on a regular basis. I’m sure this won’t get posted because it’s too pro Hawks and con ‘fake fans’.
jerrywest
July 17th, 2010
12:32 am
Post of the decade: The owners (ASG) lied to the fans. Proven clearly:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/350204-want-to-know-why-blank-is-so-desired-as-an-owner/?s=0788be1d5f5fea76f27d52abc39e9814
Can anyone disprove this?
Post of the decade: The owners (ASG) lied to the fans. Proven clearly:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/350204-want-to-know-why-blank-is-so-desired-as-an-owner/?s=0788be1d5f5fea76f27d52abc39e9814
Can anyone disprove this?
jerrywest
July 17th, 2010
12:33 am
Can you imagine him pulling this #$*#?
Reported by Michael Cunningham on June 25, 2010:
Quote
They also sold the rights to German center Tibor Pleiss to Oklahoma City for close to $3 million, the maximum amount allowable under salary-cap rules.
While the Hawks could have selected a project center or wing with that pick, Sund suggested the money earned from selling the pick would be used to add proven players to the roster.
“I think we need more veterans,” he said. “We are one of the youngest teams in the league still. I think we need to fill out the rest of the roster with veterans.”
http://blogs.ajc.com…ious-frenchman/
So, we are going to be using the money to upgrade our lineup with a “proven” veteran player? OK
:phone:
Reported by Michael Cunningham on Thursday, July 1, 2010:
Quote
The person said general manager Rick Sund and his staff realize that adding Johnson isn’t enough to make the team better on its own. They would still want to add more talent, including a starting-caliber center, and Hawks owners are willing to pay the NBA’s luxury tax “for the right player,” according to the person.
http://www.ajc.com/s…-to-562671.html
Suddenly, this is becoming clearer we are willing to spend into the tax to upgrade the roster with proven veterans!
:beer11:
Reported by Michael Cunningham on Thursday, July 14, 2010:
Quote
As for Aldridge’s contention that the Hawks aren’t willing to pay much more than the minimum due to “budget limitations,” all I can tell you is that everything I’ve heard suggests they are willing to exceed the luxury-tax threshold for the right player(s).
http://blogs.ajc.com…marvin-williams
Shaq or not, here come those proven veteran talent upgrades!
:bye1:
Reported by Michael Cunningham on Thursday, July 14, 2010 (later in the day):
Quote
In fact, after post-J.J. indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax
http://blogs.ajc.com…mmer-struggles/
Soooo….we are filling the roster with 3 players at or near the veteran minimum, huh?
:help wanted3:
Josh
July 17th, 2010
12:33 am
I am done with the lies of the Atanta Spirit and the worst GM in the NBA. Getting their fans excited only to let them down. They are just like Obama, hype everyone up through empty rheotric and never coming through with the promises made. Lets be real. The Hawks will finish 5th at best in the Eastern Conferene and will exit in the first round of the playoffs. While the Hawks are looking down for its fans, the Braves and the Falcons are looking very good and giving something the fans to cheer about. The Hawks will never be a serious contender if they continue to do what they do. We all think they are serious because they threw 25% of their payroll at one player. What a joke. The Hawks front office is a joke and so is its owners. The fans want more than making the playoffs. We want to see our Hawks in the Conference Championship in the very least and its not going to happen in the next 5 years. Heck, I think the final 2 years of Joe’s contract we will be picking in the top 5 in the draft……and pass on players who will end up being NBA superstars while drafting more duds like Marvin.
jerrywest
July 17th, 2010
12:35 am
Can we trade away Mo Evans for nothing, and go under the cap enough to use our MLE? Clips could use him.
Josh
July 17th, 2010
12:44 am
@jerry west
I would rather keep Mo Evans on the bench and trade Marvin the dud to the Cav’s. We trade Marvin’s dud contract ($8 million a year which has 4 yrs left) to the Cav’s and get Shaq and pay him the $8 million a year for two years he wants.
BigCaliDawg
July 17th, 2010
12:52 am
Talk about business acumen.
Stotts Era
July 16th, 2010
9:02 am
“how can you say we need to sign joe for credibility? We are a laughingstock for giving him the worst deal in the NBA”
At least we are (laughing stock) in the Bay Area, where the Golden State Warriors just sold for more than any team in NBA history. (Might wanna read that again.)
2nd consecutive season we have headed into the offseason needing a banger.
Last year, we got Joe Smith. He has good teeth.
Maybe this year we sign that tweeker Cordon Bleu cooking school dude. He’s kinda fiesty. He can kick Dwight in the shins, bake a cake, and snatch a board. Probly dribbles like Curly Neal……..
Paddy
July 17th, 2010
1:08 am
The biggest contract in the NBA for JJ and they are a 4th place team with him and a 4th place team without him. Fans don’t like him, so no ticket sales there. Free agents flee at the sound of their name. This is so sad it is not funny anymore.
Real Talk
July 17th, 2010
1:11 am
@ Josh
Comparing the ASG to President Obama is an insult at least he is rolling up his sleeves and working. This situation is more like Sonny Purdue with ASG bringing back the same old team from last year who is bragging about winning 53 games while everybody forgets how bad they suck on the ROAD.They sign a third or second option player to 120 m who could care less if fans show up or not. They don’t want to spend $ to make this team into a championship contender but rather settle with second round sweeps Yep sounds a lot like Sonny to me just wish they would sell the team and join him out the door next year
Android
July 17th, 2010
1:50 am
Fcuk Obamma!
jerrywest
July 17th, 2010
2:17 am
Can we trade away Mo Evans for nothing, and go under the cap enough to use our MLE? His value will go up in February because he got an expiring deal.
Also, throw in the rights of Pepsi or GladyrOut of here, just to sweeten the deal. They will never be worth $3 mill (like Anderson or 31st) in a trade away anyway. What else do we need them for?
Why don’t we just get our MLE now and then trade away Evans later before the luxury tax deadline kicks in. That way, we will know if Marvin can play for a different coach. If not, we could even trade Marvin before the trading deadline.
Holla
July 17th, 2010
3:37 am
@ Android
I don’t think I wanna do that I’m not gay
Frank
July 17th, 2010
7:39 am
Some of us love Marvin. We think he will flourish in a system that allows him to… on another note, what’s up with Mario West?
dap-1
July 17th, 2010
8:01 am
MB: I know that you need to keep in the good graces of your Hawks sources but someone needs to ask the obvious questions about how poorly the Hawks are run.
After every decision, we the fans are left scratching our heads.
We are frustrated and as this team is constructed, the fans will lose interest, the ASG will lose money and we all will fail.
The management of the Hawks are terrible and they need to realize that we know that they are terrible.
Our summer league team didn’t even have a center.
I hope the ASG fails even if it means another 10 years of being terrible.
sam'l
July 17th, 2010
8:05 am
Shaq would have been a disaster…can’t run, can’t think, can’t play……Horrible idea…….get a brain……
Yetta
July 17th, 2010
8:18 am
I no longer BELIEVE!!!!!! Not get Shaq???
Do the owners of the Hawks know how many fans they can acquire if Shaq joins the Hawks? Saying they will not exceed the luxury tax is wild; do they do anything right? I have been behind this team for many, many years, but my love for these owners are making me think twice. This could have been the chance for fans to race to the ticket office and we could earn back the luxury tax. How do they think??????????????
GO HAWKS??????????? Where are you going????????????????
Yetta
July 17th, 2010
8:26 am
Sam’l are you kidding? Shaq wouldn’t have to run or shoot. All I want him to do is stand in the middle and reach. He’s better than what we have now.
Hawker
July 17th, 2010
8:31 am
$120 million for joe johnson, who isn’t worth $20 million. Absolutely amazing. This ownership group is simply incompetent. Loserville continues in atlanta.
chefbtl
July 17th, 2010
8:35 am
All Hawks fans forget we even have a team.Ownership doesn’t want to win. All of the other treams are improving,and we are sitting pat..4 million dollors to sign 4 players who is going to help for that change?Just sell the team if you cant keep up with other teams.We need a center ,we have R.Morris ,yeah right.We will be fighting for the 8th seed.Do something big and players will come,starting with Shaq and move Horford to the 4.Mr.Blank could u PLEASE BUY THE HAWKS !
joBjo
July 17th, 2010
8:50 am
nobody wants to play for the Hawks, unless they get MAX.. ie Chills & even our own beloved Joe. I believe the Hawks are moving in the right direction. if we keep moving in the right direction, one day, maybe good players will want to come here. Smoove got to stop pouting and whining, though. Nobody likes dat chit. Keep up the good work, Sund. Go Hawks.
Pi$$onaDawg
July 17th, 2010
9:38 am
I don’t think it is a real big loss either way.
Ben
July 17th, 2010
10:24 am
Bradley: Why not call Johnson’s bluff and see if he can get a huge contract offer from someone else? Offer 5 years and 90 Million and tell Joe to go find something better. If he does, good for him – use a Sign & Trade and get an trade exception at the least. That 6th year at 24 Million is a franchise crippler, and that 5th year isn’t going to be much better. There is no defense for Joe Johnson having the largest contract in the NBA!!
Jed
July 17th, 2010
11:41 am
I’m disappointed, Mark. Having it both ways just because you’re a journalist is way beneath the high standards you’ve always upheld. You’ve already acknowledged in your previous column that spending big (or at all) for Shaq would be a mistake. Now you want to use their failure to pull the trigger as evidence that they’re not willing to go the distance. The same reasoning brought us Snake Norman. Choosing not to break the ceiling for Shaq (or for anyone who is not clearly the right piece of the puzzle) is being wise and judicious. When/if that right piece rises to the surface…THEN you can nail them to the wall if they don’t follow through.
It takes balls to run an organization
July 17th, 2010
11:50 am
I hear the Hawks are going to use indoor/outdoor balls in games this season, so they can rent them out to outdoor rec leagues when the Hawks are on the road.
They are hoping this will generate the revenue needed to add a mid-level exception player in 2045.
juice sourcer
July 17th, 2010
12:21 pm
I repeat for the thousandth time. The Hawks will NEVER win anything with Joe Johnson…and they made him the highest paid player in the NBA…just insane.
cory dillinger
July 17th, 2010
12:25 pm
You bloggers are idiots this team put together only the second winning season in 12 years and nobody went to the games and those that did go rooted for the other team. Most of the people on here do not even like the hawks cause they would give the same garbage about them not having a winning record or making the playoffs and when they do those things then it becomes I can’t get me and my family downtown to the games.
diamond d
July 17th, 2010
12:30 pm
WE NEED A BIG MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS CRAZY; THEY JUST DONT GET IT; IF WE WANT TO MAKE IT ANYWHERE WITH THIS TEAM WE NEED A BIG MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
diamond d
July 17th, 2010
12:31 pm
WE NEED A BIG MAN
diamond d
July 17th, 2010
12:33 pm
I am a long time hawks fan, stuck with them in their mess. finally we have some potential and the management is stalling… unreal, its soooooo demotivating for a hawks fan…. some one do something, AGAIN WE NEED A LEGIT BIG MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
put together to achieve mediocrity
July 17th, 2010
12:37 pm
This team was put together to achieve mediocrity. Giving Joe the max ensures continued mediocrity. At least if he had bolted, the Hawks would have had a chance to slip back down into the lottery and hopefully they wouldn’t have passed up on the next Chris Paul.
Welcome to five years of first or second round exits