No Shaq and no more Hawks’ big spending? No shock there
Marvin Williams exults at news he's not Cleveland-bound. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)
For a moment, it appeared the pleas of most Hawks’ fans would be met in one swell foop — the team would add Shaquille O’Neal while shedding the unloved Marvin Williams. But esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham has since written that the Shaq-for-Marvin sign-and-trade “appears to be a non-starter,” and this morning Chris Tomasson of FanHouse reports the Hawks “are ruling out the possibility of signing [Shaq].”
At issue here isn’t whether Shaq would have fit the Hawks — my belief was that he wouldn’t have — but the reasons Tomasson identifies for the team’s non-interest. From his report: “A source close to the situation said Thursday that Atlanta’s ownership doesn’t want to exceed the luxury-tax threshold of $70.307 million.”
And this is where it gets maddening to follow the Hawks. The Atlanta Spirit insists it will spend whatever it takes to assemble a first-class team, and then we discover there’s a ceiling on “whatever it takes.” The Hawks said money wouldn’t be a deterrent to signing the best coach available to replace Mike Woodson, but lo and behold they wound up with Larry Drew, who figures to be the lowest-paid coach in the NBA in 2010-11.
The Hawks just worked a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, considered a prime bargaining chip, and they reaped this windfall: A second-round draft pick next summer and a monetary credit to be used on some future trade. (You’ve heard of the player to be named later? This is money to be spent later.)
It’s hard to criticize the Hawks for not spending in a month where they’ve made Joe Johnson the NBA’s highest-paid player, but with Johnson they had no choice. Credibility, both in the local marketplace and across all of professional basketball, was the overriding concern. But the Hawks entered the summer saying they wouldn’t stop with keeping Joe — they would aggressively pursue other big-name free agents.
Mr. Cunningham heard the same sentiments, but now he writes: “After [post-Johnson] indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.”
This, alas, is the way of the Spirit. These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them. But there’s no follow-through, and again you stop believing.
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308 comments Add your comment
i_am_soulstar
July 16th, 2010
2:20 pm
If Jeff Teague wins the starting job, and plays good perimeter defense, this will solve the Hawks biggest problem.
Having Shaq also would’ve addressed the issue of help down low.
With Teague playing above-average perimter D, and Shaq coming off the bench, and Jordan Crawford as our 12th man, the Hawks would’ve been a team with few weaknesses.
Oh well, Go Hawks?
marcus
July 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
i would of put joe a standard contract on the table and if didn’t take it i would have been happy starting crawford and adding a real center brad miller is a better fit to me than shaq he is getting old and slow shaq realy can’t do nothing with howard him self i also would have keep the center they got in the draft instead they traded he for money perhaps to give to joe they investing to much into one man.
marcus
July 16th, 2010
2:37 pm
if joe realy wanted to win he would take less to get other players in here just like wade, bosh,and james did in south beach
James
July 16th, 2010
2:42 pm
Giving Joe Johnson a contract making him one of the highest paid players in the NBA may be the dumbest financial decision in the history of the NBA another reason why this franchise will never win anything it is simply run by morons.
James
July 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Go Heat!
joe mitchell
July 16th, 2010
2:43 pm
Michael Guering was born on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple
Harry Hawk
July 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
Joe was in the perfect storm this summer. The Hawks wouldn’t have much room under the cap if they had let the man walk, and they could not afford to have let him go for fear that they would miss the playoffs in 2010-11. Since Joe made it clear that he wouldn’t stay in Atlanta for anything less than a max contract, the Hawks’ ownership and front office had to make the only decision they felt was offered to them.
I don’t give a damn for the decision, though. Smart owners and front office types don’t allow stuff like this to happen.
gdg73
July 16th, 2010
2:49 pm
Take a look at what could have been:
Mike Bibby
Jeff Teague
Jamal Crawford
Joe Johnson
Marvin Williams
Josh Smith
Al Horford
Shaquille O’Neal
Now tell me, what NBA team would have been able to match our top 8 players? Not the Lakers. Not the Heat. Not the Magic. Not the Celtics. NO ONE!!! I didn’t even mention ZaZa, Mo, or Jordan Crawford. The ASG is truly a joke!! Pinching pennies in professional sports does not win CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! With this management style, they will continue to only break even in the box office and will settle for respectable on the court.
3Klub
July 16th, 2010
2:52 pm
They could have done a S&T with NJ and got the # 3 pick and took Cousins. Just a thought.
Grandad
July 16th, 2010
2:54 pm
Mark:
“These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them.”
How can we [fans] & or you [media/press] hold these Jack-asses accountable?
Anthony
July 16th, 2010
2:59 pm
Shaq needs to be with a real contender the hawks are not a real contender.
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
3:06 pm
Don’t worry Atlanta Fans I can’t say Hawks fans because this team under this cheap management dosen’t represent this city. After they get DESTROYED by Miami, Orlando, Chicago, Milwaukee with Bogot, possible Charlotte, New York Knicks who beat them twice last year, Boston Celtics, Washinton Wizards, and others in the east. They will be begging to make some changes. People bragg about this team winning 53 games last year but forget they were horrible on the ROAD. If they keep pissing fans off they will be horrible at home this year with low attendance which is why I didn’t renew my season tickets but I will be there whe 3 1 6 comes to town GO HEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
nahila
July 16th, 2010
3:07 pm
The Hawk players ought to let Joe play by himself since he hogged all the payroll and so far he has not offered some of his millions to help the Hawks bring in a big center so that the team can advancein the playoffs. Now the playoffs seem to be far emoved since a number of teams that finished lower in the standings have improved themselves and the Hawks have done little or nothing other than make a spoiled and selfish player rich. The owners and Sund deserve to sink down in the standings maybe even to the bottom of them. See how much the hawks will be worth with a 30 win season in lieu of 50+.
C’Mon Joe, give up some dough.
gdg73
July 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
And for all you basketball dummies/illiterates out there to chew on:
1) We had to sign Joe to that max deal. If we let him walk, we would not had enough money to go out and replace his 22ppg 6rebounds and 5assists. Some say let him walk and let Jamal start. My question: Who would be worst at playing defense in our starting backcourt, Jamal or Bibby? Al and Josh would foul out inthe first half trying to protect the basket.
2) I love Atlanta and all it has to offer, but it is not Miami/South Beach, sorry. Dwayne didn’t have to do to much recruiting. Plus, Florida has no state income tax.
3) Brad Miller is not and will never be in the same class as Shaquille O’Neal when it comes to trying to defend Dwight Howard.
4) The ASG dropped the ball big-time on this one. They had a chance to be mentioned with the big boys for the 2010-2011 season but refused to close the deal.
Anthony
July 16th, 2010
3:10 pm
The Hawks organization is not committed to winning so I’m not gonna commit myself to supporting them.
Anthony
July 16th, 2010
3:17 pm
If Joe Johnson wanted to win he would have went to Chicago and played with Derrick Rose I think they would have played good with each other.
Chicago Bulls
PG – Derrick Rose
SG – Joe Johnson
SF – Luol Deng
PF – Carlos Boozer
C – Joakim Noah
But Joe decided he cared more about money than winning so he decided to stay with the hawks.
i_am_soulstar
July 16th, 2010
3:17 pm
gdg73,
My point exactly. With that line-up, we would be considered true contenders.
Chucktown38
July 16th, 2010
3:23 pm
Did Rankin Smith come back from the grave to own the hawks? We still need a center, and not Shaq. Should of made a play for Haywood from Dallas, I guess go get Miller. The owners need to realize more is needed.Trade Josh he is talented but not very bright when it comes to playing smart. We need basketball IQ on the floor.
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
3:31 pm
I’m sick of this with Sund, he’s like the guy who worked all his life to afford a Jaguar & when he gets to the lot he buys a BMW, cause he’ll save extra money each month. What are we waiting on for, 2yrs from now & this team to be disbanded & a Slow Joe with a big contract. Everybody knows you need firepower now no way around it. We will be the laughing stock of the east next to Cleveland. In a year where all these guys are taking less money to ride the Miami train, you mean to tell me Sund could not make a pitch to win now !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just SHOOT Me
July 16th, 2010
3:34 pm
Grandad: How can we hold ASG accountable? Simply don’t buy or attend any Hawks games. I mean it truly is that simple. We need to take things into our own hands and turn this situation around. If enough of us stop supporting this group (the group not the team) they’ll be forced to make a decision. Sell the team, bring in new players, something. The way it’s working and looking now I think they’ll be a 5th or 6th seed in the East and get pounded come round 1. Why would anyone be content with that?
Roger
July 16th, 2010
3:41 pm
171st?
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
3:44 pm
Might I remind you I blogged that when Joe signed his contract they compared it to Eddie Curry’s not because of ability. It was because we will be stuck in quicksand for the next 5 yrs. trying to move money around to make moves. Hello, does this sound like the Knicks problem sign a quick fix FA for ticket sales. Whatever, another hot & dumb @ss summer in ATL.
feudfinder
July 16th, 2010
3:44 pm
MC, in case you forgot, the ASG is doing all this so that there will be enough reasons Larry Drew should be fired after 2 years. They gotta find a scape goat and poor Larry Drew happens to be it. Mark my words.
gdg73
July 16th, 2010
3:46 pm
If Joe Johnson had taken $110 million instead of the $124 million what makes you experts so certain that the ASG would have spent the savings on another free agent to improve the team? The savings calculate to about $2.3 million per year for the next 6 years. Knowing those tight wads, they probably would cry about what the free agent was asking and pocket the $2.6 million. I’d rather see Joe take the money.
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
I would love to have Shaq but not at the expense of Marvin..Shaq needs to get off his high horse and come on and play for the ONLY TEAM interested in his butt..Its not about spending money, its about spending money that makes sense!! Shaq ONLY deserve the MLE..nothing more, nothing less..I like the fact that Sund and the ASG arent letting 38yo Shaq call the shots about starting time and more money when he was willing to take the Spurs MLE right-up!! If the ASG would have allowed that, do u really think SHAQ WOULD HAVE RESPECTED THEM IN THE MORNING??
Ted Turner
July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
Hello, my name is Ted Turner, and i would like to buy back the Hawks
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
@ Just SHOOT ME I am SICK of hearing people talk about not attending games always some lame excuse with this franchise. Hawks management has been slow, stupid and cheap for the past few years which started with overpaying PHX third option and trying to make him into a superstar and finally paid him into one this year. Drafting Marvin Williams with the #2 pick over desperately need PG Chris Paul and Deron Williams at that time and we still need a decent PG as of today.The following year drafting Sheldon Williams over Brandon Roy when we already had Smoove and lame duck Marvin at that position. HOW CAN YOU BUILD EXCITEMENT FOR A FAN BASE WITH DUMB DECESIONS LIKE THAT?
jeff becker
July 16th, 2010
3:50 pm
listen, until we know what we have now, we don’t know what we need (yes i understand we don’t have a big man that can defend the basket from the strong side)… under woody, we didn’t learn anything because he decided the best way to reduce turnovers (which were killing us) was to go isolation a lot. he got tired of seeing us throw the ball away. in his defense, it sorta worked, as the hawks were among the best in the league the last few years regarding offensive turnovers… defensively, he decided we’d switch everything, confusing teams because hardly anyone else does that and simplifying things for atlanta’s low basketball IQ. now, however, atlanta has evolved some, their IQ is higher, they pass a bit better (even josh can pass) and they have a new coach. Until we see how the offense works with teague getting most of the minutes at the point, JJ having more energy late in games and possibly a contribution from (seventh man of the year, lol) jordan crawford — and until we see how the hawks defend, assuming the don’t switch everything, which they shouldn’t since teague can pester point guards as well as rondo and bibby was the main defensive liability anyway, we really don’t know what the right move will be. it’s between a defensive swing man a true dynamic point guard and a monster at the five, we know that much. we just don’t know enough.
WCJ
July 16th, 2010
3:53 pm
MB, Please! no more, I had enough, talk about the braves, leave these clowns alone.
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
3:53 pm
Hello signing any FA whether the right move or not would create a buzz & generate instant revenue. Whether ticket sales or merchandise.
KSEE
July 16th, 2010
3:55 pm
Marvin is awesome…and i really like having him on our team…problem is he fades. he fades for long stretches. we need his offense…any other team would be lucky to have him…but i just wish he wouldnt fade for us so much.
jeff becker
July 16th, 2010
3:56 pm
true, they definitely should prove they are interested and spend five to seven million on a player, stay under the cap, and keep their fans. this blog proves they will lose fans
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
Again, I would love to have Shaq, but Shaq is not a neseccity!! Did Boston have Shaq to beat Miami? Did Boston have Shaq to take care of Orlando? Did Boston have Shaq to finish off the MIGHTY CAVS? Did Boston NEED Shaq to take the Lakers to a game 7 in the finals??
All yall who constantly say the ASG is cheap and stupid and all that, MANN its very easy to say all that when u arnt in their shoes pondering over trying to sign a 38yo guys who wants to call the shots for more money, a starting position, at the expense of a player (Marvin, 24yo,defensive minded SF)? Yall are the STUPID ones!!
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
Hello ladies & gentleman ” My name is Larry Drew & I gladly be the next NBA coach to walk the Green Mile “
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
4:08 pm
@ MsDee Supporting a team that just gave 124 million to a second or third option player is STUPID
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
4:09 pm
@ MsDee Stupid is as stupid does, we would never be in this last minute position if ASG would have actively been involved in FA, they knew they weren’t going after anybody big period, Pat Riley is not a hypnotist. They should have threw their name in the Lebron hat, just to show the other FAs out there we dedicated to winning we may have been laughed at ,but it would have got Joe to thinking hey I don’t have that pin cushion anymore. Plus we had a nice young core in place, Miami is building a TEAM overnight.
3Klub
July 16th, 2010
4:10 pm
Agreed. I like Shaq, but not for Marvin.
ReddJonn68
July 16th, 2010
4:20 pm
@ MsDee & 3Klub Lets look at it from a go getter point of view. If your going to offer a max deal to anyone why not Lebron, even if he says no let the whole league know you want to win now. That puts Joe in an awkward position to show whether he wants win or he wants the money. It also lets all FAs out there know we are serious because we already have a nice core in place for them. Pat Riley is not a hypnotist, & Miami is building a TEAM overnight. Wake up, the movers & shakers are not in the same room with us.
Atlanta Spirit
July 16th, 2010
4:24 pm
No tax free day this year. Sorry, No Shaq, no one above minimum wage. Trying to get LD to lower his salary to save us money. Paying him way too much.
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
4:42 pm
@RealTalk
NO letting JJ walk right into the arms of the new Chicago team, or along side of the SuperFriends in Miami, or maybe with Amare and the New York Knicks or JayZ and the Nets…. while the new, but definely not improved Hawks, are with K. Heinrich, Ronnie Brewer or Matt Barnes and Kwame Brown. Joe Johnson would have still signed a 5 year $100 million contract with any of those teams…So naw, I still have to say YALL and the Stupid ones, esp, if u STILL think your suggestion is right!!
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
4:44 pm
(correction) So naw, I still have to sa YALL are the Stupid ones, esp if u Still think you way is right!!
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
4:45 pm
LOL..my computer is the STUPID one right now..my keys keep jamming..well, u know what I’m TRYING to type!
scottc
July 16th, 2010
4:46 pm
Mark, you siad it bet right here: “And this is where it gets maddening to follow the Hawks. The Atlanta Spirit insists it will spend whatever it takes to assemble a first-class team, and then we discover there’s a ceiling on “whatever it takes.” The Hawks said money wouldn’t be a deterrent to signing the best coach available to replace Mike Woodson, but lo and behold they wound up with Larry Drew, who figures to be the lowest-paid coach in the NBA in 2010-11.”
I guess they figure words speak louder than actions.
And now for something completely different, Mark; please quit it with the kiss of death on the Braves by picking them as the team of destiny this year. Just because you picked Spain to win the world cup not at the beginning of the tourney but before the final match is no reason to et all heady and pick the Braves to win it all now!
LOL. JK, dude. If the Braves dont appear to be destined this year, I dont know who is.
Mark Bradley
July 16th, 2010
4:51 pm
Scottc,
I picked Spain before the tournament.
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
5:04 pm
Well ok than..cant get my comments posted anymore..Sorry ReddJohn68
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
5:04 pm
ReddJohn68, come on now..be for real. How dare u compare the city of Atlanta with Miami?? Miami is a vacation port in inself. Dont u think LeBron tried to entice Wade and Bosh to join HIM in Cleveland if its the RING they are only after?? Its was not hard for Pat Riley to get those 2 guys to join him there and u say Miami is building a team overnight?? Well DAAAA!! Its the SuperFriends, its not hard to create a team in a day with those guys so come on now, chill with the silly comments. They just dont make sense to me..SORRY!
MsDee
July 16th, 2010
5:06 pm
ReddJohn68,
Come on now..be for real. How u compare the city of Atlanta with Miami?? Miami is a vacation port in inself. Dont u think LeBron tried to entice Wade and Bosh to join HIM in Cleveland if its the RING they are only after?? Its was not hard for Pat Riley to get those 2 guys to join him there and u say Miami is building a team overnight?? Its the SuperFriends, its not hard to create a team in a day with those guys so come on now.
CLEANSH0T
July 16th, 2010
5:18 pm
ASG doesn’t want to spend because us Hawk fans don’t fill up Philips like we should when we have a 50+ win team in the building. And thats REAL!!!
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
5:20 pm
@ ReddJonn68 I agree with you Miami has shown that they are serious about winning alone with the other teams that went after Bron.
@ MsDee losing Joe would have been a risk that I was willing to take I mean he could care less if we show up or not anyway but I serious doubt if a team would have max him out. We could have had 124 mil to save and went after Bron or another top FA. They could have went after Salmons to fill the void before he signed back with Milwaukee or let Jamal started.The Bottom line is ONLY FOOLS TAKE THE ATLANTA HAWKS SERIOUSLY UNDER ASG
Real Talk
July 16th, 2010
5:22 pm
@ Cleanshot what was they record on the Road?