No Shaq and no more Hawks’ big spending? No shock there
Marvin Williams exults at news he's not Cleveland-bound. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)
For a moment, it appeared the pleas of most Hawks’ fans would be met in one swell foop — the team would add Shaquille O’Neal while shedding the unloved Marvin Williams. But esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham has since written that the Shaq-for-Marvin sign-and-trade “appears to be a non-starter,” and this morning Chris Tomasson of FanHouse reports the Hawks “are ruling out the possibility of signing [Shaq].”
At issue here isn’t whether Shaq would have fit the Hawks — my belief was that he wouldn’t have — but the reasons Tomasson identifies for the team’s non-interest. From his report: “A source close to the situation said Thursday that Atlanta’s ownership doesn’t want to exceed the luxury-tax threshold of $70.307 million.”
And this is where it gets maddening to follow the Hawks. The Atlanta Spirit insists it will spend whatever it takes to assemble a first-class team, and then we discover there’s a ceiling on “whatever it takes.” The Hawks said money wouldn’t be a deterrent to signing the best coach available to replace Mike Woodson, but lo and behold they wound up with Larry Drew, who figures to be the lowest-paid coach in the NBA in 2010-11.
The Hawks just worked a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, considered a prime bargaining chip, and they reaped this windfall: A second-round draft pick next summer and a monetary credit to be used on some future trade. (You’ve heard of the player to be named later? This is money to be spent later.)
It’s hard to criticize the Hawks for not spending in a month where they’ve made Joe Johnson the NBA’s highest-paid player, but with Johnson they had no choice. Credibility, both in the local marketplace and across all of professional basketball, was the overriding concern. But the Hawks entered the summer saying they wouldn’t stop with keeping Joe — they would aggressively pursue other big-name free agents.
Mr. Cunningham heard the same sentiments, but now he writes: “After [post-Johnson] indications that the Hawks were willing to push their payroll above the luxury-tax threshold of $70.3 million, it’s becoming increasingly clear ASG wants to avoid paying the tax.”
This, alas, is the way of the Spirit. These owners talk a decent game, and sometimes you start to believe them. But there’s no follow-through, and again you stop believing.
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308 comments Add your comment
Borner
July 16th, 2010
11:32 am
@ BILL$ I agree with you 100 percent! I say you are all wasting your breath with this topic! The NBA has the Lakers and then everyone else. We will see a team go spend a bunch of money (like Miami this year) compete and lose because they don’t have Phil Jackson to help balance the egos! Sometimes we will have a team with a guy like Orlando has in Howard push hard to make the finals but the one man show burns out at crunch time! Look at the history, THE HAWKS WILL NEVER BE WHAT ATLANTA FANS ARE WISHING FOR WHILE THIS SPIRIT GROUPS OWNS THEM! All we can hope for is that Blank gets interested in hoops as he is not afraid to open up the wallet! On another note, Go Braves!
Sutton's Fro
July 16th, 2010
11:36 am
die heart – no tax holiday this year…the state can’t afford it!
atl die heart
July 16th, 2010
11:37 am
for all the fans who s always talking about we should have let jj go and sign another #1 free agent we couldn’t have unless james or wade was going to come here and take like 8 or 9 mil a year and they would just be plan stupid to do that the only reason we were able to sign jj for that much is b cause the hawks have his bird rights so just stop thinking the hawks could have went out and sign a top free agent
The Real JC
July 16th, 2010
11:37 am
@Sutton’s – I’m not convinced we really needed to spend that much money to become a first-class team. It’s always been about the 5 and clogging the lane with a big body. A serviceable center and a little roster tinkering is all we need.
It’s like ASG won’t pay one penny over Blue Book value for a needed roster addition. That’s why guys like Gortat and Heywood get paid $$$, not because they’re stat-stuffers, but because they are big meaty walls that obstruct drives to the hoop.
Jay
July 16th, 2010
11:37 am
This is all because they gave JJ that ridiculous contract. You know, the same contract that Bradley and many other people supported. I hope you all are happy now.
atl die heart
July 16th, 2010
11:39 am
fro it was a joke
atl die heart
July 16th, 2010
11:43 am
atlanta needs to get kurt thomas if they can i think he would be the best fit because dwight have trouble with players who flop and he dont compain he still can hit a jumper around the foul line and he plays hard and he is cheap enough for the asg
Seven Bulldogs Arrested This Calendar Year
July 16th, 2010
11:45 am
The ATL SPIRIT GROUP are the WORST owners in ALL of professional sports world wide. And it’s not even close.
They are a joke.
I will NEVER spend a dime of my $ to see either the Hawks or Thrashers as long as they own the teams.
FALCONS 1
July 16th, 2010
11:45 am
Maybe that deadbeat J.J can finally pay for his Black and White 69 chevy . ASG SUCKS.
Sutton's Fro
July 16th, 2010
11:48 am
@The Real JC — For whatever stupid reason, it seems no one in the Hawks organization agrees with you about a big 5. It’s like they’ve never seen Bogut, Perkins, Dampier, Miller, or Haywood play. They made one feable effort to get Big Z after he was cut this year and that was it. I don’t get it either. I love Horford’s game, but just like linemen in the NFL – there’s no substitute for size. Whe nwe traded down for the 31st pick in the draft, there were so many big guys available. I thought for sure the Hawks would pick one up, but yet again I was wrong.
Jawbreaker
July 16th, 2010
11:49 am
This management has shown that they are committed to losing. Seems Shaq is the only big man available, so bite the bullet, and give him a chance. No, he’s not as dominate as he was in years past, but enough to take the load off Horford. (If he doesn’t get hurt) If you are going to compete with Dwight Howard in the middle, you have to have a big man to guard him. Shaq may not stop him, but is experienced enough to at least contain him. As for this management, what can I say? I’m throwing the towel. I give up. I’m beginning to wish we had Pete Babcock back, AND THAT SAYS A LOT!!!!
Decatur Native
July 16th, 2010
11:49 am
Hawks fans are about to become free agents, I got offers from other teams right now that would love to aquire my services, last years stats: 18 home games attended, two home playoff, one road playoff, and a max contract worth of Budwiser and nachos, I was born a Hawks fan but these ASG fellas only do something to keep us showing up but are NOT committed to winning.
Decatur Native
July 16th, 2010
11:52 am
ASG SUCKS PLEASE SELL THE TEAM!!!
KGB
July 16th, 2010
11:52 am
Maybe the more accurate reporting would be that the ASG doesn’t want to get into the luxury tax for an over-the-hill slug like Shaq. And apparently from all reports the Suns were the only team to offer what Chills wanted so it was sort of a get something or get nothing choice. At least they got something.
Some Sense
July 16th, 2010
11:57 am
The Hawks already have Kwame Brown; they call him RandMo.
jeff
July 16th, 2010
12:04 pm
At least we have football around the corner. We only have to write or read about the hawks another wee or two.
Self Actualization
July 16th, 2010
12:05 pm
I think Joe Johnson would have took less if he knew Lebron and Bosh would come to Atlanta. However, that was never going to happen. Thus, you say let’s make our own Trio (JJ, Smoove and Al).
Let’s get real what free agents (that would really have come to Altanta) could have made the difference up for JJ. This deal was good for Atlanta the next three or four years. You deal with the results of the last year or two four years from now. Maybe some team will be willing to do a trade for an expiring contract for Joe to clear cap space the following year or something.
Everyone keeps talking about the Miami Trio, but what did that do to their overall budget. If the TRIO was so open to winning why did they not take several million less so they could have added additional pieces. The idea in Miami was for immediate impact. Who knows what the TRIO will look like three or four years from now when they are older and their contracts only provide for minimum level players to sign with the Heat. The Mike Millers, Big Z’s, U. Haslem’s will be over the hill and that team could be in major trouble. How about if one of the guys gets hurt?
There are many variables to all sort of equations, but I can tell you this, if you really believe the teams in the East got that much better, having Joe Johnson playing with the new Chicago team, a piece of the new Miami team, the New York Knicks or Nets (with Amare and new team or Harris and Lopez) and the Hawks with K. Heinrich, Ronnie Brewer or Matt Barnes and Kwame Brown would have been better then I have some swamp land to sell. Joe Johnson would have still signed a 5 year $100 million contract with any of those teams with the exception of Miami as he would have taken a pay cut of $8 million or so total over five years to play with Wade and Bosh because they would have had to have other players to fill their roster out. Plus, the Hawks can still get Barnes or Brewer and likely K. Brown now. Joe Johnson is a legitimate All NBA stud and likely the 3rd best shooting guard in the league currently only behind Kobe and Wade. Neither of those guys were coming, nor was B. Roy, nor was Lebron, nor was Bosh, nor was Durant, nor is C. Anthony, nor was Amare, so get real.
Reid Adair
July 16th, 2010
12:06 pm
What a surprise. ASG led everyone to believe, especially through “sources” speaking to Michael Cunningham, that they weren’t through spending.
Instead of getting two or three other players, they threw a max contract at Joe Johnson. I’ll be shocked if the Hawks get to 50 wins and the playoffs next year.
SWAT Native
July 16th, 2010
12:08 pm
Shaq can still come – if he’s willing to come as a free agent and play of the mid-level exception. The Hawks shouldn’t have to trade Marvin for him to come here. As time comes goes on, the Hawks may be his best option.
The Real JC
July 16th, 2010
12:09 pm
@Decatur – the problem with Hawks fans renouncing their loyalties is that they’re too good to be moribund, but not good enough to deliver much more than they already have. You’re a Lions, a Clippers or an Orioles fan, that’s fair – they’ve been basement teams for years without any effort to make them better.
But there are fans of 22 NBA teams who wish their guys made the second round of the playoffs last year. And the worst thing ever would be for the Hawks to have an unexpected good run and do well after you have renounced your fandom, which under the official rules of team loyalty renouncement can never be reinstated.
So we sit, wait and suffer. Not good enough to matter, not bad enough to ignore.
HawkKingBibby
July 16th, 2010
12:13 pm
SO WHY DID WE TRADE PICK 31 THEN? SUND said it was to add a veteran, rumors said it was to offset luxury tax. So now they will fill out the roster with the likes of Randmo and Collins or stiffs like them instead of drafting a young center at 31 and trying to develope him. IDIOTS
Mike
July 16th, 2010
12:19 pm
The Hawks were the only team in the playoffs last year not paying the luxury tax. The Spirit have decided they can make the playoffs, make money on the Hawks, and not pay a tax in return.
In today’s sports, you cannot win a championship without spending some money. No way this team as is will ever beat the Celtics, Lakers, Magic, the new look Heat, or most of the other top Western Conference teams in the playoffs. They just dont have the horses to get it done, and the Spirit wont spend the money to change it.
The Hawks are now being treated like an ATM machine for the Spirit.
frank james
July 16th, 2010
12:20 pm
Whether Shaq comes to Atlanta or not, I am glad that when he made the statement he would like to play 2 more years with a contender, Atlanta was one of these franchises. It is kind of like the Braves in the late 70’s and late 80’s, the true fan knows those were tough years. Well all these complaining about the Hawks, I remember when I just hoped they would win 20 games. We better enjoy these years!
Despite no takers, Shaq still has value – ESPN | Basketball Video Zone
July 16th, 2010
12:25 pm
[...] history is in Leonard Nimoy territory: In search of somewhere to ball. So far this summer, …No Shaq and no more Hawks' big spending? No shock thereAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Shaq not moving to AtlantaYahoo! SportsShaq to face Bieber, [...]
Hawk n the Ham
July 16th, 2010
12:34 pm
I can’t help but think that if ASG sold the Thrashers, the spending on the Hawks franchise would be a different story. If they got the money for selling the Thrashers, and in turn made money off leasing Phillips Arena to the new owners of the ATL hockey team, ASG’s finances would be different. And in turn, be able to open the pocket book if they solely had to spend on the Hawks.
The Thrashers need a hockey loving Russian billionaire to come in and save that franchise, which would help the Hawks in the long run as well, because ASG is in over their heads.
ICECOLD
July 16th, 2010
12:37 pm
last !!!
3Klub
July 16th, 2010
12:44 pm
ASG sucks. Too many owner with too much say, and 95% of the decisions made are on the cheep. Sund is not a top flight GM, LD lowest paid coach, and no FA moves made. Everybody else gets better and addresses needs except us. wa wa wa…
Tokyo Tom
July 16th, 2010
12:48 pm
Once David McDavid gets his settlement from Time Warner can he invest/buyout ASG? Is he still interested?
Timmy
July 16th, 2010
12:48 pm
You are right, Dr. Warren. Joe is about the money…which is why he came to Atlanta in the first place. He was playing in a wide open offense and winning games with the Suns and chose to come to the worst team in the league. He didn’t do it to be some sort of savior. He did it to add a couple of cars to his garage and maybe an extra digit to his account balance.
Timmy
July 16th, 2010
12:50 pm
Money, so they say, is the root of all evil today…but if you ask for a rise it’s no surprise that they’re giving none away.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 16th, 2010
12:53 pm
Co-sign Hawk n the Ham @12:34. I have felt this for a while too. If the DASG sold the Thrashers, it would benefit both franchises.
Just SHOOT Me
July 16th, 2010
12:54 pm
It’s definitely a sad and pathetic group of owners. While extremely pissed off about the ridiculous signing of Joe J, I started to believe the Hawks were capable of adding a few veterans through trade or free agency. They’ve done absolutely nothing. Anyone who thinks they are a top 4 team in the East is plain stupid. A lot of teams in the East have added great players. I’d say the Hawks will come in 5th or 6th next year and lose in the first round. I’d rather them lose in the first round than get swept in the 2nd round. I still can’t believe we sold one of our draft picks when two decent centers were still available and then the latest crap with Josh Childress. I understand the Hawks didn’t want to sign him and he didn’t want to play here. However, we basically gave him up for nothing. The Atlanta Spirit Group is starting to show their real colors. NOW it’s time for us Hawks Fans to show ours – Simply don’t go to any of their games. That’s how pissed I am. I’m a long time supporter and fan, but this madness has got to stop. STOP THE MADNESS!
Shawq the World
July 16th, 2010
1:04 pm
Why do i feel like the hawks management always seem to make terrible decisions? they will never “do what it takes” to become a championship caliber team. it will be very frustrating watching a good team get worse and worse every season due to time and how the ASG is wasting all of our (time). I say we will only become a championship caliber team when we ditch a group ownership, especially this weak basketball-minded group of owners.
My proposal? bring in a new owner.
deemark
July 16th, 2010
1:05 pm
Here’s a novel idea. How about Joe give back a little bit of that money to the team to allow them to sign some better players so we can stay in that top half of the East. That would show team leadership and a commitment to winning on his part. Of course, I don’t think any of us believe he’s that type of player.
cheshire
July 16th, 2010
1:11 pm
I wish i could just sit down in a room with the ASG management and ask them to explain to me, a Hawks fan, why i should be interested in this team. I want to support them, i’ve been a Hawks fan all my life, and i’m just running out of reasons to keep spending my $ on them (other than blind fan loyalty).
In terms of sports franchises, they really don’t get much worse than this – 40+ years in this city and we’ve never even been a possible contender for a title. That’s inexcusable. I can appreciate sticking by your team through thick and thin, but so far it’s just been thin with this team.
The last few years have provided a little bit of hope, but that hope has just vanished this offseason. We are going to trot out a team that finished 3rd in the east (although was likely the 4th best team) and got beaten in the 2nd round on a level that was historic.
Now the management of my team is telling me they are serious about winning an NBA title, but they have done nothing to make this team better, while at least 2 clubs that were worse than us have made significant improvements in the offseason.
What am I missing here? Do they just think the fanbase is clueless? If you’re going to do nothing, at least be honest with the fanbase about your intentions and stop telling me that you’re trying to win a title. I think the 40+ years of misery this team has put us through warrants at least a little honesty.
TruthSeeker
July 16th, 2010
1:14 pm
Self Actualization, I appreciate the thoughts, but with all due respect, I don’t think you really get it. No one’s upset we didn’t make a run at a major superstar along the lines of LeBron or Wade. Most of us knew that was never a realistic option. But there were other, smaller moves that any Hawks fan can see this team needed to make, namely, getting a big man who can clog the lane and improving the perimeter defense. The ASG/Sund have done NOTHING to fill these holes. Sure, it may mean you have to overpay a little bit, but sometimes that’s necessary.
That’s why the fans are furious right now. The ASG has made it quite clear that the bottom line is more important than a competitive Hawks team.
GDub
July 16th, 2010
1:19 pm
Why can’t Joe restructure to backload the contract so they can spend more now…or better yet give 2M a year back. He wins back the fans and we get a Big or a PG with the money. Hell he can make the money up in endorsements.
The Real JC
July 16th, 2010
1:21 pm
@deemark – you obviously voted for Obama. Joe has done nothing wrong – he was given an offer and accepted it. Whether the offer was smart or not is not his concern.
The current Heat situation is comparable to socialism, and like socialism, it will ultimately fail because it does not account for player’s greed.
So everyone is excited about winning a championship now, but when they actually start playing games and minimum-salary guys Mike Miller and Joel Anthony realize the guys they’re guarding make twice as much as them, along with one of the big three emerging as the superstar and feeling like he should be compensated as such, there’s no way that team dynamic can survive.
The Heat structure may look like a good idea on paper, but so does socialism.
Just Another Example......
July 16th, 2010
1:27 pm
So! All you sucker hawks fans still think/believe Steve Belkin is the devil (or whatever other hiddious name you could think of…….)? LMAO!
Sutton's Fro
July 16th, 2010
1:30 pm
Co-sign TruthSeeker @ 1:14pm
The anger and frustration is not just about spending on free agents. It’s being satisfied with RandMo and Collins at the end of the bench. It’s about wasting 2nd-round draft picks (that don’t count against the cap) when there are quality big men (Zoubek, Alabi, etc.) available. It’s about sitting on Chills’ rights for 2 years and getting peanuts in return.
Most importantly, it’s about saying something and then doing something else. Don’t say you’re willing to spend on a coach, then sign LD to a pittance (and only for 2 years). Don’t say you traded draft picks to make cap room for a veteran, then ignore all the veterans on the market. Don’t say you’re committing to building a champion, then shy away from the luxury tax.
Just Another Example......
July 16th, 2010
1:31 pm
He was right about JJ in the beginning and I bet if someone at the AJC got the balls to call the man, to get his take on this whole matter, he’d be right again. I believe he’s “STILL” a member of this great brain trust call the ASG.
Just Another Example......
July 16th, 2010
1:35 pm
JC………….it’s obivious you are a card caryying member of the ASG!
Nookah
July 16th, 2010
1:36 pm
“Money, so they say, is the root of all evil today”…
It’s not money but rather the “love of money”………. there is a distinct difference there!!!
TruthSeeker, your 1:14pm post is bang on!!! That is my frustration too and I am past the point of wondering whay our owners are the way they are. Perhaps there are unrevealed constraints that are fueling these decisions or rather the lack thereof.
As fans we have to face reality………we are not an elite franchise (understatement of the year) and we are just here for the regular season and as far into the post-season as we can get.
Go Hawks anyway!!!!
Just Another Example......
July 16th, 2010
1:37 pm
Or are you Dan Gilbert……………………
TM
July 16th, 2010
1:37 pm
This ASG has turned out to be the worst thing to happen to this city (atl sports community) in a long time.
To call them morons or label them as “cheap” or fill in your own adjective, IS doing a disservice to that individual adjective because they are sooooo much more!
ASG, please sell your property’s and do the sports fans in this town a solid.
Just Another Example......
July 16th, 2010
1:43 pm
Hey Nookah! How about we fans just stop supporting this carp-a&&ed organization, and maybe just maybe they will move, leave town (hopefully have a moving party so we can all go help them pack). We could get more pleasure and satisfaction out of rooting for a pro team in a another state.
The Real JC
July 16th, 2010
1:52 pm
@Example – ha! If I were, the Hawks/Cavs would look a lot different, and I’d probably fill out the roster with former slam dunk contest winners for my own personal amusement.
Sutton's Fro
July 16th, 2010
1:53 pm
Like I said @ 11:22, I think re-signing JJ and filling in the gaps was the best available course of action for ASG this year, but they were only halfway done when it started coming out that they’re afraid of the tax. Which is really stupid, b/c if they didn’t want to pay the tax they should’ve used draft picks on real players — not Euro-league projects and cap space!!
Frank Wren has made me eat my words a couple times on the deals he’s done for the Braves that looked bad at 1st, but turned out OK. I see little evidence that ASG will be serving up crow for Hawks fans anytime soon…
MaxxHawk
July 16th, 2010
2:01 pm
Unfortunately, you are right Mark. It is hard for us die-hard Hawks fans to swallow the fact that we will be mired in mediocrity as long as ASG are our owners. It’s not about winning for them, it’s all fiscal. Now we will get dominated by Dwight Howard and every other bonafide Center just like we did last year. Looks like we made 0 improvements from last year while everyone in the East got much better. Looks like a 6 seed for us this year, way to go ASG, nobody is excited about the Hawks this year now. All we did was make a pretty good scorer who is not a leader and doesn’t play Defense the highest paid player in basketball. It really is heartbreaking as a fan who love his hometown team and wants to see us do well. Just when we are in a position to go over the hump, ASG keeps us on the hump because they would rather us stay under the luxury tax than try to win a championship. Maddening, heartbreaking, depressing
KevinM
July 16th, 2010
2:07 pm
Joe should have been kicked to the curb, and opened up the cap limitations on this team.
There is no victory for being a 2nd round perennial playoff contender.
Now Crawford and other value has to be sent away to try and improve this team, because if you don’t improve this product, be ready for plenty of empty seats during home games and listen to the cheers for the opponent again and again and again.
We have just solidified 6th place in the Eastern Conference.