A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow
Couldn't the Hawks at least trade him for a bunch of shoes? (AJC photo by Andy Sharp)
Esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham reports that the Hawks are close to a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, who last played for the Hawks in Game 7 against Boston in May 2008. That the Hawks aren’t terribly interested in having the Grecian earner rejoin them should come as no shock.
Back to 2008: Billy Knight, who drafted Childress with the No. 6 pick in June 2004, resigned as general manager after the Boston series. He was replaced by Rick Sund, who knew Childress as a Hawk only from what he’d seen on TV/film, and what Sund saw wasn’t necessarily what we Atlantans had seen.
A lot of us around here believed Childress was a substitute of the first rank — the kind of high-octane reserve every good team needs. (Childress had been stellar against the Celtics, you’ll recall.) Sund saw a guy who couldn’t shoot. He wanted to keep Childress, but not at any price. Thus did a rising NBA team’s sixth man wind up with Olympiakos.
Put simply, Childress saw himself as more important to the Hawks than the new GM did. (So did I, though I give Sund credit for finding Flip Murray and Mo Evans that summer to help offset the loss.) Given that Sund’s still here, the chances of Childress returning to the Hawks have never been good. They’ve regarded him as a bargaining piece if they’ve regarded him at all, and the preliminary details of the sign-and-trade would seem to bear that out.
The Hawks wouldn’t be getting a player in return. They’d be getting, Cunningham reports, a second-round draft choice and a trade exception, which is a salary-cap credit for a future transaction. Which would mean that they got nothing when Childress left for Greece and they wouldn’t be receiving a flesh-and-blood player upon his return. To which I say:
What a waste.
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157 comments Add your comment
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
July 12th, 2010
8:39 am
TOP 5 maybe ?
renegade#1
July 12th, 2010
8:40 am
first
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
July 12th, 2010
8:40 am
alright finally a FIRST when i thought I was out of it !!!!!!!
Jay
July 12th, 2010
8:40 am
First
Steve
July 12th, 2010
8:40 am
Well if the extra cap space we get as a result of the trade goes toward bringing in some new faces (particularly Shaq), then it’s not a waste at all. I would have loved to see Chills back as well but this trade may turn out to look better for Sund than it does at the moment.
Jay
July 12th, 2010
8:41 am
Dagnabit
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
8:42 am
Top 1, SOUTH GA. Kudos.
Barnacle Bill Bavasi
July 12th, 2010
8:43 am
Heck, even a cruddy draftee center got them $3 million in cash. Couldn’t they have thrown in a toupee for Sund?
WCJ
July 12th, 2010
8:43 am
Mark, what else could the hawks do? If the hawks sign Shaq and aquire Mo Williams, would get even things out?
renegade#1
July 12th, 2010
8:43 am
I thought josh was a pretty decent player you mean they couldn’t even get a pair of shoe laces for him ?
Jay
July 12th, 2010
8:44 am
I will miss the Big Fro, I thought that he was what was missing in the last two seasons expecially for those “junk” points that he would get without any plays for him.
Stockdog
July 12th, 2010
8:44 am
I agree with Steve; the additional cap space would be helpful. We need a big body down low. I didn’t think that the Hawks should have drafted him. I felt that Luol Deng was a better pick. Anyway, so long to the under average shooter known as J-Chill.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
8:46 am
You’re right about that, Jay.
dap01
July 12th, 2010
8:47 am
I hope that we use the extra money to actually get someone. Childress over values himself. He was a #6 pick yet he is nothing more than a good role player with the ugliest shot in NBA history.
Come on Sund.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
July 12th, 2010
8:49 am
Who knows at this point. I was reading the posts on the blog and it has so many initials in the comments its almost impossible to figure out what the Hawks move will be. If we can get Shaq AND Mo Williams then the Hawks have had a damn good FA period.
DP
July 12th, 2010
8:52 am
Good for Childress. He’ll fit in with Phoenix where they have a point guard and play team basketball.
Reggie
July 12th, 2010
8:52 am
Anybody who thinks the Hawks are about to make a big follow-up move after this deal is either A.on drugs or B. has not been paying attention to how this team operates on the cheap. The bottom line is we overpaid for Joe Johnson and now we are stuck with them making all these wal-mart “rollback” moves.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
8:53 am
Where exactly does Mo Williams play? Point guard? If so, what does that mean for Jeff Teague?
Benjamin
July 12th, 2010
8:53 am
I have a sinking feeling that we’re going to see this franchise slowly drift back to irrelevancy in the next two to three years.
Al Horford’s a restricted free agent this upcoming offseason, and with us spending so much money on Joe Johnson until he’s approximately 53 years old — in basketball years, anyway (how many “superstars” play to the levels of earning over 20 million dollars at 35?) — and an assistant coach who represents a lot of the past regime at the helm, I’m going back into “CAUTION: Wait and see…” mode.
I hope they know what they’re doing, but I’m starting to wonder again if they do.
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
July 12th, 2010
8:53 am
how did childress do in greece has he been dominating maybe improved his shooting ?
fro power
July 12th, 2010
8:54 am
i cant believe the hawks let chills walk for nothing…best wing we had in my opinion…
Stockdog,
Chills is 8 times the player Deng is,Deng is just a shooter
Buddy Grizzard
July 12th, 2010
8:55 am
Saying Josh Childress can’t shoot is an excuse for the Hawks losing out on the only significant offseason acquisition we could have made. Forget what he can’t do, look at what he does: defend and rebound. Something the Hawks did very little of in the Orlando series.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
8:55 am
Childress’ first year with Olympiakos wasn’t great, SOUTH GA. (It’s different over there.) The second was better.
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) – Entertainment Syntax Media
July 12th, 2010
8:56 am
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Stockdog
July 12th, 2010
8:57 am
He scoring around 15 points and 5 rebounds and 2 assists a game. Nothing spectacular and not dominate.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
July 12th, 2010
8:59 am
Mark,
As I hit submit I wondered that aswell. Mo Williams is an above average PG in the league who has a great 3pt stroke, which the Hawks can benefit from. He has been in big games before and if healthy can provide a legitimate option at PG for a team looking to advance deep into the playoffs.
Now Teague is completely untested at the PG position and will the ownership and staff trust a Rookie essentially to lead this team? We have seen recent evidence w/ Rondo that if you have veterans on a squad you can allow a talented Rookie to learn while on the job.
Its a huge gamble either way. In keeping with Teague you still have Bibby, JJ and Crawford to help at PG, but it is very tempting to bring in a talent like Mo Williams and let him run the show.
D Gram
July 12th, 2010
9:00 am
Yall have to remember, Chills coulda just walked since hawks were not likely to match any offer made. His “rights” were not at all what you may think they were. At least we got something. Even though it is basically garbage.
evan
July 12th, 2010
9:00 am
Mark, I find it so ha.rd to believe that we could not use Josh Childress.
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) » Childress, Hawks, Sund, Cunningham, Boston, Evans » Auto Move is.com
July 12th, 2010
9:01 am
[...] full post on josh childress – Google News Share and [...]
Benjamin
July 12th, 2010
9:01 am
You know what the irony of all this is? Josh Childress can shoot…
http://www.basketballreference.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=CHILDJO01
Lifetime percentages: .522 from the floor, .799 from the charity stripe, and .360 from beyond the arc…
Andrew Bogut’s got a funky shot in Milwaukee, too. I wonder if the Bucks would consider shipping him to us for a second round pick and a trade exception…
Riggodeaux
July 12th, 2010
9:05 am
Reggie & Benjamin have it right – the repercussions from overpaying Johnson [both in terms of annual salary and length of contract] lead, inevitably, to a regression to, at best, first round playoff losses in the future. Dumb, dumb, dumb. If I have this right, JJ [robin to a batman, at best] will be paid as much, or more, than any of the 3 in Miami, over a longer period of time [except maybe D-Wade], and he’s older and has as much or more wear and tear as any of them? Paid by a franchise relatively short on cash? I’m not that impressed by Josh, a nice role player, but the signal here is that the Johnson deal establishes the Hawks’ ceiling over the next few years, and it isn’t competing the Eastern Division title.
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) » Childress, Hawks, Sund, Cunningham, Boston, Evans » Season Style
July 12th, 2010
9:06 am
[...] full post upon josh childress – Google News Share and [...]
Craig
July 12th, 2010
9:06 am
The Hawks did not really have a bargaining chip to work with here. They did not have the money to compete with 5/35 mil and since Josh had the option to go back to Greece he held all the chips. The Suns did not have to give much if anything to get him anyway. The Hawks were lucky to get anything in this deal.
CONFEDERATE DAWG
July 12th, 2010
9:09 am
COME ON GUYS WE ARE THE SAME TEAM THAT TRADED NIQUE FOR DANNY MANNINGS SORRY ASS.
ET
July 12th, 2010
9:09 am
It just seems to me that Childress should at least bring a first round pick in return. Heck, Cleveland got two first round picks for James AFTER he chose the Heat. The Heat didn’t have to give those up. They could have said “look you already lost him, take the second round picks and like it”. Why is it that Atlanta always seems to be the Huckleberry.
I also agree that Childress’ hussle was badly needed the last two years on the Hawks team. Maybe Johnson would not have mailed it in during the playoffs. Nobody is lighting a fire under these guy’s butts. Childress did. Sund is making a mistake here. FWIW.
Stotts Era
July 12th, 2010
9:10 am
i love love to get mo williams at the 1 and could care less about teague/bibby
Deemark
July 12th, 2010
9:11 am
I’m not sure i understand this. Does this give us more money and if so, just how much? and what are our plans for using this money, besides getting Shaq?
Jesse
July 12th, 2010
9:11 am
It looks like the Raptors are now using their trade exception (among other things) to get Hedo Turkoglu, so a trade exception can be valuable. If we can use the exception and Marvin Williams to get Mo Williams and Shaq, for instance, then I say it will be worth it. Childress is restricted and most teams no we wouldn’t match, so at least we’re getting something.
Tweets that mention A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
July 12th, 2010
9:12 am
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D Gram
July 12th, 2010
9:13 am
This may make yall feel slightly better:
“The Suns are using part of their trade expemption from the Amare Stoudemire sign-and-trade with the Knicks to acquire Childress, so they’re getting value back from the loss of their star big man.”
We are getting a very substantial comparison for Chills as to what the Knicks got for Amare. And we can all agree that Amare is much better than Chills. I understand the Knicks mgmt is also sorry, but still….
BravesFan79
July 12th, 2010
9:14 am
Good for Phoenix, which is my favorite team in the West with the real MVP of last season Steve Nash leading the way. (We all know what Nash accomplished in the playoffs compared to Lebron!)
I think Lawal will be a solid player for them also. But loosing Stodimare really worries me because he was so good in the pick and roll with Nash. But perhaps if they get average/ solid play from their bigmen on offense, and their defense improves with the loss of Stodamire, and using Turkalu as another 3 shooter helps also.. then perhaps the Suns can be right back in the finals of the Western confrence next year. If not, and the team looses alot of ground in the standings, i hope Nash is traded back to the Mavericks.
Cant believe Childress was a #6 pick and we lost him for nothing, what a waste. Billy Knight has to be the worst GM in Atlanta history, well except for the man who traded Dominique for a rent-a-player of course.. Pete Babcock, who is still despised in Atlanta for the trade when the Hawks were a 1st place team.
Phoenix Suns owner Robert Sarver says future is bright » Daily Hosted News - Daily News Just for You
July 12th, 2010
9:16 am
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A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Hot Topics
July 12th, 2010
9:18 am
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Public Broadcast News » Report: Suns Working On Deals for Turkoglu, Childress
July 12th, 2010
9:21 am
[...] Couldn’t the Hawks at least trade him for a bunch of shoes? (AJC photo by Andy Sharp) Esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham reports that the Hawks are close to a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress , who last … Read more… [...]
Public Broadcast News » Turkoglu, Childress heading to Suns?
July 12th, 2010
9:21 am
[...] Couldn’t the Hawks at least trade him for a bunch of shoes? (AJC photo by Andy Sharp) Esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham reports that the Hawks are close to a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress , who last … Read more… [...]
Public Broadcast News » Reports: Phoenix Suns trading for Hedo Turkoglu, Josh Childress
July 12th, 2010
9:21 am
[...] A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Couldn’t the Hawks at least trade him for a bunch of shoes? (AJC photo by Andy Sharp) Esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham reports that the Hawks are close to a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress , who last … Read more… [...]
PMC
July 12th, 2010
9:29 am
Another huge Billy Knight bust for the Hawks. He’s a decent enough player, he’s made a lot of money for himself and I think he’ll be an excellent player for the Suns but for whatever reason Chills hated his time here and that’s obvious.
You can’t hope to be a great team while striking out with draft picks. Chills ends up being absolutely worthless for the Hawks, combine him with the Slumlord and Marvelous Marvin Williams who (again didn’t start even in college) and it seems the self described “basketball expert” didn’t do a whole lot of analysis other than wingspan.
Thanks Billy. At least the shot in the dark you took with Josh Smith worked out.
D Hawks
July 12th, 2010
9:34 am
Josh was not worth a #6 pick to begin with; he is a career 10 – 12 pts 5 – 6 rebounds per game player and no one was going to give the Hawks equivalent “perceived” value in return. He looked good in a Hawks uniform because there were a lot of sorry people filling out the remainder of the roster. Chalk this one up to another wasted lottery pick, and we still don’t have a significant offseason personnel move that will upgrade the Hawks roster. This team is in trouble in the East. Right now, I don’t see them being a top 4 seed. It’s clear that money is a huge factor despite the Joe Johnson signing.
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Colodec
July 12th, 2010
9:35 am
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July 12th, 2010
9:35 am
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PMC
July 12th, 2010
9:45 am
Rick probably took a look at the Jumper and laughed anyway. That was one of the ugliest shots in basketball history.
This is more or less just finishing off what was done before he left for Olympiacos. It’s a bookkeeping move. Clearing Childress off the books. It’s unfortunate to get virtually nothing for a 6th pick overall but it was a necessary move.
no justice
July 12th, 2010
9:47 am
Childress coming back would’ve been good, yeah, but you are forgetting why he left in the first place. He thought he should’ve started for the hawks. If he returns he still not starting. So while you are speaking about how nice it would be if he return,s HE GOTTA WANNA COME BACK!!! if not then get what you can for him before he walks – even if it’s just a used motorcycle cover. One more thing, let the professionals make the deals!!
morris junior
July 12th, 2010
9:52 am
mark, simply put have you considered josh refuse to play for the hawks under any circumstances, plus knowing after this year he could sign with whoever without the hawks getting anything. at least it gives the hawks something to deal with, and we need players who want to play here.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
9:53 am
I have considered as much, morris.
TimP
July 12th, 2010
9:53 am
If this rumor of getting Mo Williams and Shaq has any truth, I think the Hawks can afford to send away Williams and Teague.
HawkKingBibby
July 12th, 2010
9:54 am
Mark you are 100% on target here. After all that drama of the last couple of summers, the Hawks drawing a line in the sand, Chills drawing a line in the sand bolting for Europe. After all that ALL WE GET IS A FRIGGIN 2ND ROUND PICK that will be drafted and play in Europe like the last few 2nd rounders. WASTE is a good word.
Mr. Phil
July 12th, 2010
9:58 am
@MB
You are waaaay off base with this one. The trade exception coupled with the Hawks little cap space and say a Bibby or Marvin Williams could be enough to land a borderline all star. Add it up Bibby +Cap Space+Trade Exception+Second Round Draft Pick = about $9 Million.
Also, a second round draft pick has a lower cap figure versus a veteran player (compare $4 mill to 600K) allowing cap flexibility down the road.
If you think that trade would be a waste, you are looking at it from a short term fan oriented perspective. Gotta expand your view buddy. Besides, this is better than Having Childress sign for a deal we were never going to match and then getting nothing in return.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
10:00 am
What cap space, Mr. Phil? As Michael Cunningham has written, the Hawks are over the cap.
Timmy
July 12th, 2010
10:01 am
Mark and anyone else can sit at their computers and type away about how much you want Childress back, but not one of you could look me in the face and say you honestly don’t find him to be an ugly human being with the ugliest shot known to man.
BigCaliDawg
July 12th, 2010
10:05 am
If all the talk of L.D.’s new offensive “system” is true, then Chills wouldn’t fit in here anyway. I missed seeing him go and believe he is more entertaining to watch than Evans, but his game worked better around the “Iso Joe” offense than a structured one.
If he is not able to get that fugly shot off, how can we create plays for him. His time with us has passed.
Think maybe we could throw in a toothbrush on the deal? Podnah might need to use one periodically……
Khao$
July 12th, 2010
10:08 am
Honestly, the biggest issue I have is I think the Hawks let the wrong SF go (Chills). One of my biggest beefs with the Hawks and Woodson was there was not any open competition between Childress and Marvin Williams. Aside from being picked number two, Marvin hasn’t done anything to warrent being given anything. And yet, that’s all that has happened. Childress never did anything flashy, but he was a hard worker on the court. I think the Hawks would have benefitted by allowing those two guys compete. I think Childress will flourish in the Suns system and Marvin will continue to dribble balls off his feet.
Mr. Phil
July 12th, 2010
10:09 am
@Mark
I think Michael needs to recheck. I am pretty sure the hawks are about $1.5-2 Mill under the cap (exclude MLE and such).
Even if not, a trade exception can basically be used in lieu of cap space for a future deal. Basically, the value of this deal will be determined by the next deal/trade.
Spud Webb
July 12th, 2010
10:10 am
With all due respect to Josh Childress-it’s not a big loss. He wouldn’t get a bunch of minutes on this team at this point. Should they get more for him, sure, I guess?? I mean I dont recall Josh being a superstar or a star. Servicable, yes, but not sure what folks expected to get in return for him???????
PS, that photo of him with his all his shoes screams g&Y!! No offense to anyone, just saying!!!!!!!!!!
cp
July 12th, 2010
10:15 am
I have to agree with Khao$ post… We pretty much got nothing for a guy we took 6th in the draft. If the Hawks don’t use the trade exception then the trade is even worse. I hope Sund has something up his sleeves if not then smh
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Elaike News Center
July 12th, 2010
10:17 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
hmmmm......
July 12th, 2010
10:26 am
we shoulda tried to get the suns to throw in sideshow bob in the deal. Why does everyone want Mo Williams he choked in the playoffs 2 years in arow.
hmmmm......
July 12th, 2010
10:26 am
Robin Lopez*
tree rollins
July 12th, 2010
10:27 am
You summed it up well Mark. The Hawks got nothing when he went to Greece, then everybody said they’ll still own him when he wants to come back. Well he wants to come back – and they still got nothing. Meanwhile, they overpaid in a big way for Joe Johnson, they’ve offered way too much for Shaq, and they returned the assistant to the head coach they ousted. Sund is beginning to look a lot dumber than I thought he was these past 2 years!
tree rollins
July 12th, 2010
10:31 am
Maybe we can still pick up Jon Koncak off the free agency market if we play our cards right and team him with Shaq to scare off anybody that wants to penetrate the lane against us!
Leroy Jankins
July 12th, 2010
10:33 am
Boring topics all around today, Kudos!
Jerry West
July 12th, 2010
10:33 am
Mo Williams? Don’t the Hawks already have enough high-priced, low-playoff-performing guards?
Scott in Willacoochee
July 12th, 2010
10:40 am
First!!!!!!!!
Freshmaker
July 12th, 2010
10:48 am
Nobody is going to take Bibby off our hands until next season, when he becomes an expiring contract. Right now he’d be a 2 year guy for anyone acquiring him. Only way he is moved is if we take a worse contract in return. I don’t think anyone would want Marvin but, who knows. Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this – I haven’t read all the posts – but the cap exception cannot be combined with the MLE. So, we can sign a MLE guy and trade for a 3.5M or w/e salary guy, but we cannot sign a FA for ~9M.
T.C
July 12th, 2010
10:53 am
I mean, they couldn’t even part with Jared Dudely? They’ve got live 5 SF’s on their roster now!
Report: Suns dealing for Turkoglu, Childress – FOXSports.com | Blog-about.com Free Blogs
July 12th, 2010
10:59 am
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steve brown
July 12th, 2010
11:01 am
Mr. Phil seems like the only correct opinion-the second round pick plus the player you get with the trade exemption=the value for Josh Childress.
another brilliant move
July 12th, 2010
11:05 am
Draft no point guards at #2 pick…resign loser Joe Johnson at 120 frigging million and now this….I will never pay a nickle to see them play…maybe pay to see Kobe when he comes to town…thats it
Paddy
July 12th, 2010
11:13 am
Mark….a sign and trade with cap room felxability seems like even less than you stated. If FA’s do not consider Atlanta a good destination what good is cap room if good players won’t come? Am I missing something that is obvious? Help me!
sam
July 12th, 2010
11:14 am
childress sucked…he had a stupid looking jumpshot….he didn’t want to be here…so let people see what he is about now if he is supposed to be so good.
rm
July 12th, 2010
11:19 am
We could not afford Childress at 6 Mill a year. He could have walked for nothing. We receive a future pick and cap space to use in an upcoming trade. Put down the Playstation…this is a business transaction.
hatfieldgeoff
July 12th, 2010
11:19 am
Mark, I couldn’t agree more. Childress showed in the Boston series that he could be a difference maker in the playoffs using his quickness and a developing scoring ability at key times. He could have been another piece to help make the Hawks better, instead they are giving him away for practically nothing. A 2nd round draft pick in the NBA is next to worthless. The real fact of the matter is, however, I don’t think he wanted anything to do with this Hawks Ownership group. He went to Stanford and is a smart kid. He just made the great decision to ply his wares in Greece for the last two years (what an opportunity, both socially and athletically). Now he will come back and go to a franchise that possibly has a future and not one that, probably short-term, has a collection of pretty good players. Oh, by the way if Sund is smart he will leave the Flip Saunders signing off his resume in the future.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
It’s going to take some time to know exactly what this deal is worth, because there’s 2 main points that we still don’t have the complete facts on yet.
1) The value of the trade exception. According to MC’s report, Chills is signing a contract for at least $30M over 6 years. Because this would make him a base-year compensation player, the trade exemption would only be half the value of the first year of his contract. He’s going to get raises each year, so he’ll get less the first year than the per year average of his contract. If all of MC’s facts are correct and the contract is for $30M exactly, the exception would be worth about $2M-$2.5M. That gives us a little room to take on more money that we’re shedding, but would likely mean we’re likely getting the same number of players in return that we give up, but the players we get back will just be making more than the players we give up. Of course, if the contract is worth more, the trade exception will be worth more. Unfortunately, it sounds like we’re getting a lot less value for him because of the base year compensation rules.
2) Who are we going to use this exception to get, and who else are we giving up for them? I’m hoping Sund has a good plan for using this exception, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Jordan Crawford
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
Josh who?! Did he dunk on Lebron at his summer camp?
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
For those that say we got nothing for Childress obviously aren’t paying attention. MB, Childress doesn’t want to play for us anymore and him being a RFA a team just needed to make a qualifying offer and Atl wouldn’t had matched and then we would get “Nothing” for him. At least with the trade we can possibly use the trade exemption to acquire somebody else if we choose to do so. For those that still knock the JJ signing, who else were we going to sign? You don’t sign JJ then you only have 10 million tops to work with. The “Super 3″ in Miami are still making about 12-15 million each just without the 6th year. We don’t resign JJ we don’t make it back to the playoffs.
Even if he signed for less we still couldn’t get anybody else because before we signed him we were at 47 million so whoever wants to make that point it’s really a mute one.
mark
July 12th, 2010
11:24 am
who said they are going after mo williams if they do he will be backing up teague. ld already said he is turning the pg spot over to jt.
Furman Bisher
July 12th, 2010
11:24 am
It’s “moot” point, not “mute point, you tard! Work on your command of the language!
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:27 am
One other thing is that MC was assuming that the Hawks weren’t willing to pay enough luxury tax to pay the full value for Josh’s qualifying offer plus the MLE and the bi-annual exception. So, there’s a chance that paying Josh would’ve prevented us from using the full value of the salary cap exceptions we have. Since it looks like the trade exception is going to be less than Chills’ qualifying offer, ASG might be willing to use more of the MLE and bi-annual exception.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:30 am
Terrell, LeBron and Bosh actually got their 6th years. Cleveland and Toronto got a bunch of Miami’s future draft picks in sign and trades so they could actually get something in return for their departing stars.
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:32 am
MB read MC’s blog in regards to the JC tade and what it does. Here is the important excerpt from what we posted:
If Childress signs a deal for those terms, Atlanta’s trade exception would be worth half the amount of his first-year salary since he would become a base-year compensation player. The exception works as a sort of credit that would allow the Hawks to make a trade while over the salary cap without meeting the usual salary-matching requirement.
MB, the fact that ATL is over the salary cap threshold means that if wanted to trade for a player of a certain salary we would have to give up matching salaries. Lets say a team doesn’t want one of our players well this is where that trade exemtpion comes into play.
Example: Player A= $7M salary and Player B=$9M. we want player B for player A but because we are over the cap we can’t make a straight up trade. The trade exemption is worth 2-2.5M, and with the Trade exemption we can get player B for player A without violating the rules of being above the salary cap threshold.
True Hawks Fan
July 12th, 2010
11:32 am
Mark Bradley is the man. Good article.
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:35 am
GT Alum ,
I stand corrected, but the issue here we weren’t going to get anything for JJ if we did a sign and trade. No team was going to do a sign and trade with us if JJ oculd be had for less money. If we didn’t offer that contact he would’ve signed with a team for less money and we would’ve gotten nothing for him and only so much cap space to do anything else.
Stan Diego
July 12th, 2010
11:36 am
Ode on a Grecian earner, indeed. Nice one there, Mark.
T
July 12th, 2010
11:41 am
This guy was a horrible draft choice at #6. Has anyone gone back and looked at that draft? We could have had Jameer Nelson, Andre Igoudala, Trevor Ariza, Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, Tony Allen. Not exactly a murderers row, but I would take any of these guys over boasting about a 6th man with the 6th pick in the draft. Thank God we got Smoove in that draft to counter the flushing of the other three picks Billy blew. God, this organization is terrible. How much do you think Seattle would pay for the Hawks? I say we sell.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:43 am
Terrell,
Yeah, I understand the viewpoint. There were some who didn’t understand the salary cap who thought we could use the money for JJ to get other players, but I think a lot of people who don’t like the signing were actually advocating trying to free cap space to spend a year or two down the road on a player who would truly be worth that kind of money (like enticing Dwight Howard to come back home). The Hawks took the safer route of re-signing JJ and not risking taking a step back or messing too much with their “core”.
Also, a lot of this just stems from the fact that, despite his good play, because of iso-Joe, the fact that he’s not a “showtime” type of player, his comments about fans during the Orlando series, and the fact that he’s pretty much disappeared in the playoffs, there’s a lot of people who don’t exactly have a lot of love for JJ.
James
July 12th, 2010
11:45 am
The Hawks have no clue what they are doing the franchise is lost.
Paddy
July 12th, 2010
11:54 am
Ditto James. You could also same the same for Knight as GM.
JSS_62
July 12th, 2010
11:55 am
What most people are missing is that the Hawks are going have to find a partner on a deal between now and a year from now to use this trade exception. Otherwise it is worthless. I think this a hedge to get one of the 3rd tier centers like DJ Mengba of the Lakers. But the Hawks are going to do something quickly or wait till the near the Trade deadline. In the worst scenario, we are backs against the wall next summer, any deal on the table looks good…
jeff
July 12th, 2010
12:00 pm
A waste? He isn’t worth the price of a cup of Dunkin Doughnuts coffee. And certainly not worth the 34 million he just got.
frank james
July 12th, 2010
12:05 pm
Send his butt back over seaseas!
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
12:08 pm
Thanks, True Hawks Fan. But I’m not much of a man, I’m afraid.
wxwax
July 12th, 2010
12:19 pm
I’ll miss his energy. Not sure he would have made much difference to the Hawks’ moribund locker room. When your leading players (JJ, Smoove) have weak attitudes it’s not likely that a mediocre seventh man will change the team’s effort and attitude.
This is a giveaway by the Hawks.
I don’t see how more room under the cap will help a team that’s reluctant to spend money.
Time Out
July 12th, 2010
12:20 pm
Maybe the Atlanta Spirit can overpay him. We pay Joe Johnson KING JAMES type money. Oh man what a bunch of idiots running the Hawks and Thrashers. Oh yeah, D-Wad screwed up again…time for a promotion.
martin
July 12th, 2010
12:25 pm
comparing Chills to Bogut is crazy. Bogut is an allstar center who can dominate games when healthy. Chills is nothing more than a role player who was drafter too high. We did not trade him for nothing. We traded him for is value on the market. He is only worth a 2nd round pick. The Suns will suck next season and most likely miss the playoffs. This means that pick will be a high second round pick and we also gained about $3.4M to spend this off season. That will allow the hawks to offer Shaqfu or Scola a deal. We need size much more than we need another wing player who cannot shot. Jordan Crawford is going to add a scoring threat off the bench, we need size to matchup with Dwight.
HawkKingBibby
July 12th, 2010
12:26 pm
Im pretty ticked. Mostly because the Dutch got hosed yesterday having to play with 10 men decided the World Cup with a minute left in extra time. However Sund and the Hawks getting hosed in this deal after 2 years of waiting just irks me more.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
12:27 pm
Time Out, haven’t you ever heard of the Dilbert principle? Promote the incompetent to the place where they can do the least damage.
Jay
July 12th, 2010
12:28 pm
The reason we are trading him for nothing is because we can’t afford to pay him 5 years, 30 million. Why? It’s not because that contract is unreasonable…it is because we signed JJ to worst contract given out this offseason. It is the same terrible JJ contract that most of you (Bradley the homer included) thought was a good move, so I hope you are happy because the crippling of our roster has officially begun.
Reid Adair
July 12th, 2010
12:34 pm
Of course it’s not much in return, Mark. This is ASG we’re talking about. The same ownership that agreed to give Joe Johnson a max contract.
mrH
July 12th, 2010
12:36 pm
You can’t champion the re-signing of Joe and then call this move “a waste.”
Childress was the first victim of Joe’s bloated contract.
Paddy
July 12th, 2010
12:39 pm
mrH….great ponit on the bloated contract of JJ.
Whopper Dawg
July 12th, 2010
12:41 pm
Wonderful. Now sell the pick.
tremaine
July 12th, 2010
12:49 pm
I would rather have J Chill then Joe Johnson anyday. At least his effort was never questioned.
Adam
July 12th, 2010
12:55 pm
Why not trade Mike Bibby for a pack of gum and some of these trade exceptions that we have and will never use.
JEWELL
July 12th, 2010
12:58 pm
MARK, IN LIEU OF THE HEAT ONLY GETTING A 2ND ROUND PICK FOR BEASLEY (NO. 2 PICK IN THE DRAFT) I GUESS WE GOT SOMETHING? MAYBE WE GET A 2ND ROUND PICK THAT CAN PLAY! LAKERS JUST GOT EBANKS AND CHAREKER….
POAD
July 12th, 2010
12:59 pm
It is the NBA! Most of the players are not worth the money paid to them. There is a 17-20yr. old that will take less money and be just as good at playing 1-on-1 with 4 other guys doing the same on the same court. I would rather watch Jordan play Bird in a 1-on-1 game for 500K on pay-per-view(@29.95) than any first round NBA playoff game.
Mr. Phil
July 12th, 2010
1:03 pm
Correction to my 10:09 am post. I (like Mike Woodson before me) keep forgetting about Mo. Evans. The jist remains true. This trade will look brilliant if it helps to land a key piece.
Willy
July 12th, 2010
1:06 pm
Had JJ taken less $ maybe we could’ve kept JC.
Tweets that mention A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
July 12th, 2010
1:09 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Patrick June. Patrick June said: A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow: Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog)He was replaced by… http://bit.ly/de8Zp1 [...]
Notso Fast
July 12th, 2010
1:11 pm
This has happened all too many times with the Hawks, Every team makes mistakes but not near as many as the Hawks. The high draft picks we had have has not given us as many top players as it should have. Have we ever had a foreign player that actually played in Atlanta? Not many
RomeDawg
July 12th, 2010
1:15 pm
Still trying to decide if I care OR if I think Childress is as good as he thinks he is. I don’t want players here who don’t want to be here, so…..good luck in Phoenix. I think Atlanta has a better chance to be relevant than Phoenix, so him not wanting to play here seems….odd.
Gary
July 12th, 2010
1:28 pm
I don’t think any of you are understanding why this move had to be made. Childress was not part of our plans and he wasn’t part of our salary right now either. However, the Hawks had no cap room for him and had to take any deal possible. They couldn’t trade for another player because – again – they are over the cap if they do. What this does is give the Hawks a trade exception which they can then package with another player and make a trade for something of value and not be over the cap. This along with the mid-level exception will allow the hawks to make moves to help the team. Also enough of the misconception that this clears cap space. It doesn’t because Childress was not part of the team and his salary not currently listed on an already capped roster. They cleared no space and will use the exception to trade with a player in order to take on salary that will not put them over the cap.
The Real JC
July 12th, 2010
1:43 pm
@tremaine – it’s a lot easier to show hustle off the bench than playing the most NBA minutes of any player, like Joe did in 2006-07 when Chil was here.
Football Fan
July 12th, 2010
1:46 pm
This deal is absurd.
Football Fan
July 12th, 2010
1:46 pm
Enter your comments here
bill
July 12th, 2010
1:51 pm
Yep, your ASG in action!
The Real JC
July 12th, 2010
1:51 pm
Also, Childress has made it pretty clear that he didn’t want to play in ATL anymore. He wasn’t happy with the role and the $ being offered to him, so he jumped ship for the lucrative Olympiakos contract in the first place.
Najeh Davenpoop
July 12th, 2010
1:59 pm
“Sund saw a guy who couldn’t shoot. He wanted to keep Childress, but not at any price. Thus did a rising NBA team’s sixth man wind up with Olympiakos.”
As far as I know, Sund’s refusal to extend an offer to Childress had little to do with his game and a lot to do with his restricted free agent status. Just like he did with Josh Smith and will probably do next year with Al Horford, Sund allowed the market to dictate the value of Childress, knowing that as a RFA the Hawks had the right to match. What he didn’t anticipate is that Childress would sign with a non-NBA team, where the right to match doesn’t apply. I think if an NBA team had signed him to an offer sheet in the summer of ‘08 the Hawks would have matched.
RI Mike
July 12th, 2010
2:02 pm
Gary,
I don’t think people are stupid to the facts of the case, I think the question remains, what will the front office do with the exemption now that they have it.
Chills was a fun guy to see play and a guy who will make an impact in PHX, but it sounds like he wasn’t coming back here anyway.
The Real JC
July 12th, 2010
2:02 pm
@Notso fast – hey, at least we’re not the Blazers. Primarily what you’re talking about happened under the guidance of Billy Knight, who has been roundly criticized for his player personnel decisions and is no longer with the team.
Of course Marvin Williams at #2 and Shelden Williams at #5 were the worst, but if you look at the 04 draft, while Josh Childress at #6 was before Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala and Al Jefferson, we still managed to get Josh Smith at #17, while teams were drafting guys like Kirk Snyder, Kris Humphries and Robert Swift.
Look at the Blazers from that year – Sebastian Telfair at #13, Viktor Khryapa at #22 and Sergei Monia at #23.
2004Draft
July 12th, 2010
2:19 pm
Chills didn’t live up to what we all expect of a No. 6 pick, but the 2004 draft was so poor that it’s hard to blame the Hawks for selecting him. Even with the gift of hindsight, there are only a few obvious misses as to whom the Hawks passed up:
No. 7 Luol Deng
No. 9 Andre Iguodala
No. 20 Jameer Nelson
No. 26 Kevin Martin
No. 30 Anderson Varejao
The rest of the field was pretty deplorable (save for the Hawks picking Josh Smith at No. 17).
ICEMANcometh10
July 12th, 2010
2:19 pm
This dude (Chills) left for more money to go across the water to average 15 points per. He has not played a game for the Hawks for a while now and if I remember right his last shot DID NOT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. When I broke up with my ex I wish I could have done a sign and trade and got something for her cause SHE WAS GOOD TOO. Point is QUIT WHINING AND CRYING over moves that MUST be done no matter how smart they seem to the average dummy who really don’t know much about sports.
notcool
July 12th, 2010
2:20 pm
I Blame JJ.
Big Ray
July 12th, 2010
2:32 pm
We have acquired a second round pick that we’ll sell off (again) and a trade exception that we likely won’t use.
What a wonderful return on a former lottery pick. Sigh
Buddy Grizzard
July 12th, 2010
3:25 pm
Gary:
“Also enough of the misconception that this clears cap space. It doesn’t because Childress was not part of the team and his salary not currently listed on an already capped roster.”
Wrong, the Hawks qualifying offer to Childress counts against the cap.
Mark Bradley's Fan Club
July 12th, 2010
3:45 pm
Wow, that’s pretty disappointing. A second round pick (anyone remember the last time a second round pick became any kind of impact player?) and some kind of obscure cap relief for a trade? That’s basically nothing.
Back in 2007-08, Childress was one of 3 players on the team who showed consistent, hard and good play (the other 2 being JJ and Bibby, once he got here). I remember thinking how great it was that at least one of our young guys showed he’s figured it out.
And now he’s gone. Sad.
The Truth
July 12th, 2010
3:48 pm
Good heavens people. Josh Childress is NOT John Havlicek. The Hawks won 53 games last year without the Fro. I think we can get along without him just fine. Plus, it seems to me that Chills doesnt want to be here anyway. Good luck in Phoenix. Mr. Sund it seems got something for nothing rather than the other way around.
Buddy Grizzard
July 12th, 2010
3:56 pm
http://www.clipsnation.com/2010/7/12/1565811/josh-childress-for-less-than-the
John Brown
July 12th, 2010
4:01 pm
The point is Childress does not shoot jump shots well. Josh Smith was over 50% from the field too. Does that mean he’s a good shooter? Most of Chills shots made were put-back layups. Some of you fans don’t realize how key that trade exception will be at the trade deadline. I like this way better than the Mo Williams rumor. That guy is garbage. And yea, he’s a shoot first point guard, and we already have 2 point guards.
Bama
July 12th, 2010
5:55 pm
Atlanta gave up one of the best defender of the pg,sg sf, in the league. He’s quick smart and a leader who thinks without the ball and help defend better than anyone in the league. Great all around player. We should have gotten a first round pick. Marvin Williams was the man to let go.
TheWyzyrd
July 12th, 2010
6:02 pm
Mark, You truly are THE Man! You always have been. Even the Walrus thought you were the Man!
ICECOLD
July 12th, 2010
7:40 pm
first !!!
ICECOLD
July 12th, 2010
7:55 pm
lol… guess im too late.. but any way.. the only moves i see that sund did wrong that didnt help the team is………………
oh wait..
1 he got flip murray and mo evens for basically free…
2 he got rid of some players that was real suspect and made our bench actually able to compete.
3 he traded speedy claxton and acie law for jamal crawford, who turned into the 6 man of the year, another nothing for something!!!!
4 he got us joe smith and the sloppy big for basically pocket change
5 he got rid of mike woodson ( thank you lord )
6 he signed a coach that wants to actually move the ball and have a motion offense
7 he brought back the only free agent that was worth getting or that we could possibly get… ( joe johnson ) because if we would have lost him people would have been saying, sunds cant do anything write.. ( just like now )
8 we still have a core group of guys that is actually a great core
10 now he has traded dead weight again for a trade exception and a second round pick who we might can trade for cash again next year to help sign al horford..
seems to me like he is doin a heck of a job so far!!!! guess yall are venting instead of trully counting the blessings …
and while all these teams are shedding their whole rosters and rebuilding, and getting nothing in return, we complain that sunds is making small moves and steps to keep the team together who did in-fact win 53 games.. and our only real problem was orlando magics.. dwight howard who is every team in the entire world problem also..
nobody can guard him.. lebron destroyed us, i dont see nobody screaming we need one player that can stop him..
BECAUSE THEIR ISNT ONE .. just like their isnt one to stop dwight howard… our problem was we tried to double team him, and while we was doing that.. they destroyed us by three point shooting all day, which then opened up for dwight howard.. AND THAT WAS A COACHING MISTAKE
that is why mike woodson is gone…
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK SUNDS, because of u.. we actually can compete for a ring maybe this year coming up!!!
Simpdawg
July 12th, 2010
8:00 pm
Bama,
I agree with you 100%. I said all last summer if the Hawks resign Marvin and let Josh Childress go, that it would be a mistake. Josh Childress was the Hawks best perimeter defender and he could dominate a game without the ball. I’m really starting to hate this franchise. If the Hawks sign Shaq when Kwame Brown, Brad Miller, Anthony Tolliver and Kurt Thomas are available I’m through with this team. Tyson Chandler will be traded to Toronto.
Jake
July 12th, 2010
8:10 pm
We get trade exception to you know!
St. Bernard
July 12th, 2010
9:23 pm
Is Tyson Chandler a legitimate option?
Mike Woodson
July 13th, 2010
12:06 am
Everyone keeps saying the Hawks had to get Joe Johnson back or we wouldn’t make it back to the playoffs. Joe Johnson avg. 7pts a game through the playoffs this past yr. Even if the Hawks do make it to the playoffs we don’t have any answer for Dwight Howard,Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis nor can we compete with Boston or Miami. Who’s gonna guard D.Wade, L. James, Chris Bosh…Paul Pierce, Ray Allen..The Hawks don’t have a playoff built team. Ok even if the Hawks do make to the NBA they are not going to beat the Lakers…Who’s gonna guard Gasol, Bynum, Kobe, L.Odom. The hawks are not going to win a NBA championship with players like Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, and Mike Bibby.
flexgrip
July 13th, 2010
12:32 am
hawks management is shotout for sure they are not gonna do anything but look like idiots , im sick of it
Justin
July 13th, 2010
1:06 am
This just looks like a terrible trade to me. We kept his rights for 2 years for this…what an absolute waste. If we hadn’t overpaid for JJ….never mind.
John
July 13th, 2010
9:21 am
@ICECOLD….can you do the blogs for AJC from now on? Much better than what MB posted. Most people don’t realize, or are ignorant to the fact, that Sund has done a very good job since arriving. Yet Atlanta fans being the way they are, just like to moan, whine and complain. Pathetic.
Hoops
July 13th, 2010
10:57 am
Mark,
It is too early to judge the Childress deal. Let’s wait and see what player that Sund is able to get as a result of the Childress trade. I believe it will turn out good for the Hawks!
Hawk_Freak
July 13th, 2010
1:00 pm
Scary to think that our GM makes decisions based on what he sees on video or film. Maybe he should have consulted a scout, or even taken a trip to greece. I had hopes that we’d keep Childress.
DAWG H8R
July 13th, 2010
1:06 pm
I don’t care who else the Hawks bring in.
If they can get rid of some of the dead weight
like childress,m williams,m evans, then they
are well on their way to turning the corner.
Trimming the fat, old fat, is as beneficial as
starting anew. Getting what they can for a lame player
like Childress is basically what they’ll do. It’s all they can
do. He was a bad selection. He had shot like a woman.
The window of opportunity is still open. Don’t make
any more stupid moves and we’ll be there for at least 5 years.
The heat won’t last. Trust me.
Insider (trust me)
July 13th, 2010
4:31 pm
For those of you not aware, sources are telling me, (really good ones), that the hawks are attempting to sell the team. Therefore, every move they are making is financial and not basketball related. IE the JJ signing. The owners know they over paid, they just cant afford for the value of the franchise to decrease by letting him go. How do you feel about that Mark?
freshnigue
July 13th, 2010
4:37 pm
DawgH8R, the heat wont last?realy? they are all definately there for 3 years most likely 6. And after this year they will begin to get mid-level exceptions back so they can spend more then the vet min on reserves. With a starting lineup of chalmers,wade, lebron, bosh, haslem and mike miller coming of the bench with big z or juwan howard they are winning the title. I will never trust anything u say. I wouldn’t even trust u if you said the hawks will make the 5 seed, (which they most likely will), because i would think you would have just jynxed us by doing so.
The internet reacts to the Phoenix Suns’ deals for Josh Childress and Hedo Turkoglu | phoenix.rssible.com
July 13th, 2010
5:06 pm
[...] What a waste…[AJC.com] [...]
mike
July 13th, 2010
9:58 pm
That’s ok for Chills. Where ever he goes he will be playing and making some relatively big bucks. Which is more than you haters will be making. I have often wonder how so many no talented people give out so much expert advice on a professional player. I have never understood that.
jerrywest
July 15th, 2010
12:05 am
The truth is:
these ownership group will never spend the money to make this a championship team.
Why would vet-min players come here when they can go to Miami?
JD
July 16th, 2010
1:52 am
Since Childress is a base year compensation player, the trade exception is worth only about $3.6 million. Trade exceptions cannot be used in combination with an actual player to match salaries in a trade. In other words, the Hawks can only use the trade exception to get a player making around $3.6M.
As far as the Suns, in a local interview it was explained that they were already scouting Childress while he was playing overseas. So they were targeting him before this year’s free agency even began.