A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow
Couldn't the Hawks at least trade him for a bunch of shoes? (AJC photo by Andy Sharp)
Esteemed colleague Michael Cunningham reports that the Hawks are close to a sign-and-trade with Phoenix for Josh Childress, who last played for the Hawks in Game 7 against Boston in May 2008. That the Hawks aren’t terribly interested in having the Grecian earner rejoin them should come as no shock.
Back to 2008: Billy Knight, who drafted Childress with the No. 6 pick in June 2004, resigned as general manager after the Boston series. He was replaced by Rick Sund, who knew Childress as a Hawk only from what he’d seen on TV/film, and what Sund saw wasn’t necessarily what we Atlantans had seen.
A lot of us around here believed Childress was a substitute of the first rank — the kind of high-octane reserve every good team needs. (Childress had been stellar against the Celtics, you’ll recall.) Sund saw a guy who couldn’t shoot. He wanted to keep Childress, but not at any price. Thus did a rising NBA team’s sixth man wind up with Olympiakos.
Put simply, Childress saw himself as more important to the Hawks than the new GM did. (So did I, though I give Sund credit for finding Flip Murray and Mo Evans that summer to help offset the loss.) Given that Sund’s still here, the chances of Childress returning to the Hawks have never been good. They’ve regarded him as a bargaining piece if they’ve regarded him at all, and the preliminary details of the sign-and-trade would seem to bear that out.
The Hawks wouldn’t be getting a player in return. They’d be getting, Cunningham reports, a second-round draft choice and a trade exception, which is a salary-cap credit for a future transaction. Which would mean that they got nothing when Childress left for Greece and they wouldn’t be receiving a flesh-and-blood player upon his return. To which I say:
What a waste.
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157 comments Add your comment
PMC
July 12th, 2010
9:45 am
Rick probably took a look at the Jumper and laughed anyway. That was one of the ugliest shots in basketball history.
This is more or less just finishing off what was done before he left for Olympiacos. It’s a bookkeeping move. Clearing Childress off the books. It’s unfortunate to get virtually nothing for a 6th pick overall but it was a necessary move.
no justice
July 12th, 2010
9:47 am
Childress coming back would’ve been good, yeah, but you are forgetting why he left in the first place. He thought he should’ve started for the hawks. If he returns he still not starting. So while you are speaking about how nice it would be if he return,s HE GOTTA WANNA COME BACK!!! if not then get what you can for him before he walks – even if it’s just a used motorcycle cover. One more thing, let the professionals make the deals!!
morris junior
July 12th, 2010
9:52 am
mark, simply put have you considered josh refuse to play for the hawks under any circumstances, plus knowing after this year he could sign with whoever without the hawks getting anything. at least it gives the hawks something to deal with, and we need players who want to play here.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
9:53 am
I have considered as much, morris.
TimP
July 12th, 2010
9:53 am
If this rumor of getting Mo Williams and Shaq has any truth, I think the Hawks can afford to send away Williams and Teague.
HawkKingBibby
July 12th, 2010
9:54 am
Mark you are 100% on target here. After all that drama of the last couple of summers, the Hawks drawing a line in the sand, Chills drawing a line in the sand bolting for Europe. After all that ALL WE GET IS A FRIGGIN 2ND ROUND PICK that will be drafted and play in Europe like the last few 2nd rounders. WASTE is a good word.
Mr. Phil
July 12th, 2010
9:58 am
@MB
You are waaaay off base with this one. The trade exception coupled with the Hawks little cap space and say a Bibby or Marvin Williams could be enough to land a borderline all star. Add it up Bibby +Cap Space+Trade Exception+Second Round Draft Pick = about $9 Million.
Also, a second round draft pick has a lower cap figure versus a veteran player (compare $4 mill to 600K) allowing cap flexibility down the road.
If you think that trade would be a waste, you are looking at it from a short term fan oriented perspective. Gotta expand your view buddy. Besides, this is better than Having Childress sign for a deal we were never going to match and then getting nothing in return.
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
10:00 am
What cap space, Mr. Phil? As Michael Cunningham has written, the Hawks are over the cap.
Timmy
July 12th, 2010
10:01 am
Mark and anyone else can sit at their computers and type away about how much you want Childress back, but not one of you could look me in the face and say you honestly don’t find him to be an ugly human being with the ugliest shot known to man.
BigCaliDawg
July 12th, 2010
10:05 am
If all the talk of L.D.’s new offensive “system” is true, then Chills wouldn’t fit in here anyway. I missed seeing him go and believe he is more entertaining to watch than Evans, but his game worked better around the “Iso Joe” offense than a structured one.
If he is not able to get that fugly shot off, how can we create plays for him. His time with us has passed.
Think maybe we could throw in a toothbrush on the deal? Podnah might need to use one periodically……
Khao$
July 12th, 2010
10:08 am
Honestly, the biggest issue I have is I think the Hawks let the wrong SF go (Chills). One of my biggest beefs with the Hawks and Woodson was there was not any open competition between Childress and Marvin Williams. Aside from being picked number two, Marvin hasn’t done anything to warrent being given anything. And yet, that’s all that has happened. Childress never did anything flashy, but he was a hard worker on the court. I think the Hawks would have benefitted by allowing those two guys compete. I think Childress will flourish in the Suns system and Marvin will continue to dribble balls off his feet.
Mr. Phil
July 12th, 2010
10:09 am
@Mark
I think Michael needs to recheck. I am pretty sure the hawks are about $1.5-2 Mill under the cap (exclude MLE and such).
Even if not, a trade exception can basically be used in lieu of cap space for a future deal. Basically, the value of this deal will be determined by the next deal/trade.
Spud Webb
July 12th, 2010
10:10 am
With all due respect to Josh Childress-it’s not a big loss. He wouldn’t get a bunch of minutes on this team at this point. Should they get more for him, sure, I guess?? I mean I dont recall Josh being a superstar or a star. Servicable, yes, but not sure what folks expected to get in return for him???????
PS, that photo of him with his all his shoes screams g&Y!! No offense to anyone, just saying!!!!!!!!!!
cp
July 12th, 2010
10:15 am
I have to agree with Khao$ post… We pretty much got nothing for a guy we took 6th in the draft. If the Hawks don’t use the trade exception then the trade is even worse. I hope Sund has something up his sleeves if not then smh
A Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? Wow – Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) | Elaike News Center
July 12th, 2010
10:17 am
[...] Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) [...]
hmmmm......
July 12th, 2010
10:26 am
we shoulda tried to get the suns to throw in sideshow bob in the deal. Why does everyone want Mo Williams he choked in the playoffs 2 years in arow.
hmmmm......
July 12th, 2010
10:26 am
Robin Lopez*
tree rollins
July 12th, 2010
10:27 am
You summed it up well Mark. The Hawks got nothing when he went to Greece, then everybody said they’ll still own him when he wants to come back. Well he wants to come back – and they still got nothing. Meanwhile, they overpaid in a big way for Joe Johnson, they’ve offered way too much for Shaq, and they returned the assistant to the head coach they ousted. Sund is beginning to look a lot dumber than I thought he was these past 2 years!
tree rollins
July 12th, 2010
10:31 am
Maybe we can still pick up Jon Koncak off the free agency market if we play our cards right and team him with Shaq to scare off anybody that wants to penetrate the lane against us!
Leroy Jankins
July 12th, 2010
10:33 am
Boring topics all around today, Kudos!
Jerry West
July 12th, 2010
10:33 am
Mo Williams? Don’t the Hawks already have enough high-priced, low-playoff-performing guards?
Scott in Willacoochee
July 12th, 2010
10:40 am
First!!!!!!!!
Freshmaker
July 12th, 2010
10:48 am
Nobody is going to take Bibby off our hands until next season, when he becomes an expiring contract. Right now he’d be a 2 year guy for anyone acquiring him. Only way he is moved is if we take a worse contract in return. I don’t think anyone would want Marvin but, who knows. Also, not sure if anyone has mentioned this – I haven’t read all the posts – but the cap exception cannot be combined with the MLE. So, we can sign a MLE guy and trade for a 3.5M or w/e salary guy, but we cannot sign a FA for ~9M.
T.C
July 12th, 2010
10:53 am
I mean, they couldn’t even part with Jared Dudely? They’ve got live 5 SF’s on their roster now!
Report: Suns dealing for Turkoglu, Childress – FOXSports.com | Blog-about.com Free Blogs
July 12th, 2010
10:59 am
[...] Republic. The Suns would send Leandro Barbosa …Reports: Turkoglu, Childress to SunsESPNA Josh Childress sign-and-trade for not much in return? WowAtlanta Journal Constitution (blog)Turkoglu, Childress heading to Suns?San Francisco [...]
steve brown
July 12th, 2010
11:01 am
Mr. Phil seems like the only correct opinion-the second round pick plus the player you get with the trade exemption=the value for Josh Childress.
another brilliant move
July 12th, 2010
11:05 am
Draft no point guards at #2 pick…resign loser Joe Johnson at 120 frigging million and now this….I will never pay a nickle to see them play…maybe pay to see Kobe when he comes to town…thats it
Paddy
July 12th, 2010
11:13 am
Mark….a sign and trade with cap room felxability seems like even less than you stated. If FA’s do not consider Atlanta a good destination what good is cap room if good players won’t come? Am I missing something that is obvious? Help me!
sam
July 12th, 2010
11:14 am
childress sucked…he had a stupid looking jumpshot….he didn’t want to be here…so let people see what he is about now if he is supposed to be so good.
rm
July 12th, 2010
11:19 am
We could not afford Childress at 6 Mill a year. He could have walked for nothing. We receive a future pick and cap space to use in an upcoming trade. Put down the Playstation…this is a business transaction.
hatfieldgeoff
July 12th, 2010
11:19 am
Mark, I couldn’t agree more. Childress showed in the Boston series that he could be a difference maker in the playoffs using his quickness and a developing scoring ability at key times. He could have been another piece to help make the Hawks better, instead they are giving him away for practically nothing. A 2nd round draft pick in the NBA is next to worthless. The real fact of the matter is, however, I don’t think he wanted anything to do with this Hawks Ownership group. He went to Stanford and is a smart kid. He just made the great decision to ply his wares in Greece for the last two years (what an opportunity, both socially and athletically). Now he will come back and go to a franchise that possibly has a future and not one that, probably short-term, has a collection of pretty good players. Oh, by the way if Sund is smart he will leave the Flip Saunders signing off his resume in the future.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
It’s going to take some time to know exactly what this deal is worth, because there’s 2 main points that we still don’t have the complete facts on yet.
1) The value of the trade exception. According to MC’s report, Chills is signing a contract for at least $30M over 6 years. Because this would make him a base-year compensation player, the trade exemption would only be half the value of the first year of his contract. He’s going to get raises each year, so he’ll get less the first year than the per year average of his contract. If all of MC’s facts are correct and the contract is for $30M exactly, the exception would be worth about $2M-$2.5M. That gives us a little room to take on more money that we’re shedding, but would likely mean we’re likely getting the same number of players in return that we give up, but the players we get back will just be making more than the players we give up. Of course, if the contract is worth more, the trade exception will be worth more. Unfortunately, it sounds like we’re getting a lot less value for him because of the base year compensation rules.
2) Who are we going to use this exception to get, and who else are we giving up for them? I’m hoping Sund has a good plan for using this exception, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Jordan Crawford
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
Josh who?! Did he dunk on Lebron at his summer camp?
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:20 am
For those that say we got nothing for Childress obviously aren’t paying attention. MB, Childress doesn’t want to play for us anymore and him being a RFA a team just needed to make a qualifying offer and Atl wouldn’t had matched and then we would get “Nothing” for him. At least with the trade we can possibly use the trade exemption to acquire somebody else if we choose to do so. For those that still knock the JJ signing, who else were we going to sign? You don’t sign JJ then you only have 10 million tops to work with. The “Super 3″ in Miami are still making about 12-15 million each just without the 6th year. We don’t resign JJ we don’t make it back to the playoffs.
Even if he signed for less we still couldn’t get anybody else because before we signed him we were at 47 million so whoever wants to make that point it’s really a mute one.
mark
July 12th, 2010
11:24 am
who said they are going after mo williams if they do he will be backing up teague. ld already said he is turning the pg spot over to jt.
Furman Bisher
July 12th, 2010
11:24 am
It’s “moot” point, not “mute point, you tard! Work on your command of the language!
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:27 am
One other thing is that MC was assuming that the Hawks weren’t willing to pay enough luxury tax to pay the full value for Josh’s qualifying offer plus the MLE and the bi-annual exception. So, there’s a chance that paying Josh would’ve prevented us from using the full value of the salary cap exceptions we have. Since it looks like the trade exception is going to be less than Chills’ qualifying offer, ASG might be willing to use more of the MLE and bi-annual exception.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:30 am
Terrell, LeBron and Bosh actually got their 6th years. Cleveland and Toronto got a bunch of Miami’s future draft picks in sign and trades so they could actually get something in return for their departing stars.
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:32 am
MB read MC’s blog in regards to the JC tade and what it does. Here is the important excerpt from what we posted:
If Childress signs a deal for those terms, Atlanta’s trade exception would be worth half the amount of his first-year salary since he would become a base-year compensation player. The exception works as a sort of credit that would allow the Hawks to make a trade while over the salary cap without meeting the usual salary-matching requirement.
MB, the fact that ATL is over the salary cap threshold means that if wanted to trade for a player of a certain salary we would have to give up matching salaries. Lets say a team doesn’t want one of our players well this is where that trade exemtpion comes into play.
Example: Player A= $7M salary and Player B=$9M. we want player B for player A but because we are over the cap we can’t make a straight up trade. The trade exemption is worth 2-2.5M, and with the Trade exemption we can get player B for player A without violating the rules of being above the salary cap threshold.
True Hawks Fan
July 12th, 2010
11:32 am
Mark Bradley is the man. Good article.
Terrell
July 12th, 2010
11:35 am
GT Alum ,
I stand corrected, but the issue here we weren’t going to get anything for JJ if we did a sign and trade. No team was going to do a sign and trade with us if JJ oculd be had for less money. If we didn’t offer that contact he would’ve signed with a team for less money and we would’ve gotten nothing for him and only so much cap space to do anything else.
Stan Diego
July 12th, 2010
11:36 am
Ode on a Grecian earner, indeed. Nice one there, Mark.
T
July 12th, 2010
11:41 am
This guy was a horrible draft choice at #6. Has anyone gone back and looked at that draft? We could have had Jameer Nelson, Andre Igoudala, Trevor Ariza, Anderson Varejao, Delonte West, Tony Allen. Not exactly a murderers row, but I would take any of these guys over boasting about a 6th man with the 6th pick in the draft. Thank God we got Smoove in that draft to counter the flushing of the other three picks Billy blew. God, this organization is terrible. How much do you think Seattle would pay for the Hawks? I say we sell.
GT Alum
July 12th, 2010
11:43 am
Terrell,
Yeah, I understand the viewpoint. There were some who didn’t understand the salary cap who thought we could use the money for JJ to get other players, but I think a lot of people who don’t like the signing were actually advocating trying to free cap space to spend a year or two down the road on a player who would truly be worth that kind of money (like enticing Dwight Howard to come back home). The Hawks took the safer route of re-signing JJ and not risking taking a step back or messing too much with their “core”.
Also, a lot of this just stems from the fact that, despite his good play, because of iso-Joe, the fact that he’s not a “showtime” type of player, his comments about fans during the Orlando series, and the fact that he’s pretty much disappeared in the playoffs, there’s a lot of people who don’t exactly have a lot of love for JJ.
James
July 12th, 2010
11:45 am
The Hawks have no clue what they are doing the franchise is lost.
Paddy
July 12th, 2010
11:54 am
Ditto James. You could also same the same for Knight as GM.
JSS_62
July 12th, 2010
11:55 am
What most people are missing is that the Hawks are going have to find a partner on a deal between now and a year from now to use this trade exception. Otherwise it is worthless. I think this a hedge to get one of the 3rd tier centers like DJ Mengba of the Lakers. But the Hawks are going to do something quickly or wait till the near the Trade deadline. In the worst scenario, we are backs against the wall next summer, any deal on the table looks good…
jeff
July 12th, 2010
12:00 pm
A waste? He isn’t worth the price of a cup of Dunkin Doughnuts coffee. And certainly not worth the 34 million he just got.
frank james
July 12th, 2010
12:05 pm
Send his butt back over seaseas!
Mark Bradley
July 12th, 2010
12:08 pm
Thanks, True Hawks Fan. But I’m not much of a man, I’m afraid.