The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it

Jazzy Tee

July 7th, 2010
1:05 pm

First! Speedy we hardly knew ye!

JJ

July 7th, 2010
1:06 pm

1st?

O'Brien

July 7th, 2010
1:06 pm

Good points Mark.

And we have also seen max guys get traded (Ray Allen, KG, TMac), so even if we can’t afford him in year 4, as long as he is still productive (which I think he will, because he doesnt rely on athleticism), a contender willl trade for him to get them to the next leavel.

JJ

July 7th, 2010
1:07 pm

should of commented before reading the article…

Gilley

July 7th, 2010
1:09 pm

I concur!!!!!!

Scotty

July 7th, 2010
1:14 pm

Mark, disagree with the arguments. By resigning Joe to the max, you are not telling your fans you want to compete, you’re telling your fans that you are happy with having a team with a 2nd Round ceiling. i think most Hawks fans would rather see us be worse in the short term, but with financial flexibility to spend money down the road to significantly improve the team through trade or free agency. now, we’ll be mediocre in the short term and bad in the long run, when the contract DOES become an albatross and we’re stuck.

Joey

July 7th, 2010
1:18 pm

Uh-oh. Bosh and Wade with the Heat now. Hawks have gotta make a move now, right Mark?

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July 7th, 2010
1:19 pm

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Michael Scharff

July 7th, 2010
1:21 pm

OMG, Mark, I haven’t thought of Koncak in years!
However, your picture of him reminds me – short shorts notwithstanding, I really like that old uniform with it’s logo and color scheme. I can’t stand the current unis – I think they’re ugly as homegrown sin!
Also, thanks for shouldering the blog load while Schultzie is on vacation – keep up the great work!

show me state

July 7th, 2010
1:21 pm

Without Joe Johnson over the past 5 years…..the hawks wouldn’t had made the playoffs at all…..point blank…..so all of the nay sayers need to give credit….where credit is due…..hawks fan for life……

Freshmaker

July 7th, 2010
1:22 pm

Scotty I wouldn’t call 50+ wins and making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs mediocre. You have to be willing to prove you want to win in order to get FAs to come here. Jamal Crawford can come off the books after this season, don’t forget that. So there’s $10M or w/e right there to sign someone.

Reeal Hawk Fan

July 7th, 2010
1:22 pm

Speedy Claxston I almost was luckienuff to forget that one

F-105 Thunderchief

July 7th, 2010
1:22 pm

And still, their biggest opportunity to improve is the one dollar store move they made … head coach. I’ll believe they’re not stupid when they prove it.

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PMC

July 7th, 2010
1:23 pm

Ok, but just realise that Joe Johnson is not remotely marketable, he’s not galvanizing (IE a reason to fight traffic and go see him play) and he’s not doing anything to get you postseason victories… so is he a nice asset? Yes absolutely… if you have an elite point guard and other pieces to sell to the public.

You’re really going to pay this guy 119 million and have essentially a boring media hermit who comes up small when it really matters and craps on the fans as the face of your franchise for 6 years guaranteed?

Ok. Just don’t expect a return until you sell the team.

Jt

July 7th, 2010
1:25 pm

Well said Mark! And I completely agree. You may remember when Koncak signed his deal the Hawks’ justification for it at the time was, in essence, when you lack ONE piece of a puzzle, then regardless of the piece itself, it becomes worth overspending for. We now know that Koncak wasn’t the only missing piece but they thought he might be. Same with JJ. They had to overpay to get him five years ago and have to overpay to keep him now. But to let him go is to go backwards in the immediate future and the Hawks cannot afford to do so. It would create even greater indifference from borderline fans. They need some more complimentary pieces and they have some bargaining chips. I think another year of experience for Josh Al and others, a new offensive philosophy with an adjusted defensive philosophy, Rook getting a chance to start and you have the potential for improvement or at least for ownership to convince fans of that for at least another year.

Remarkable

July 7th, 2010
1:25 pm

I agree withn you Mark. Even if we cleared cap money, it is no gurantee that we can sign anyone else in a year of two. Look at all the teams with max room and no one to give it to who deserves it. Perhaps LD can show JJ the way to improve. If he catches that vision, and the Hawks get a legitimate center, and Jeff T. improves, . . .

PMC

July 7th, 2010
1:26 pm

With him they have a chance, without him they had no real shot for the next couple of years likely… but this contract has AL BATROSS all over it.

It’s not an expiring contract they can trade for 5 years… and it’s not like he’s going to just find guts in the playoffs laying in his locker.

HawkKingBibby

July 7th, 2010
1:26 pm

Yet all these media folks would have loved it if JJ went to thy’re city. NY and Chicago wanted him as did Dallas. These idiots would have ripped the Hawks if they kept him or if they lost him.

CJ

July 7th, 2010
1:26 pm

Joe + Josh + Horford is better than Wade + Bosh. I don’t think the Heat have leapfrogged us yet.

wawel78

July 7th, 2010
1:26 pm

none of the contracts you mentioned will cripple the team like the JJ contract will. This one is worse. I’m not even sure they will be able to get home court for one round in the playoffs next season.

Vomax

July 7th, 2010
1:27 pm

Completely agree with Scotty. We’ve seen the ceiling with the Hawks current configuration. The thinking that a new head coach – who’s never before been a head coach – will make a difference strains reason. I’d be perfectly fine with moving one, two, or three steps back this year if it meant jettisoning a good player who has demonstrated time and again that he’s (1) not great; and (2) not good enough when it matters most.

PMC

July 7th, 2010
1:28 pm

With this contract the Hawks are a playoff team…. and also with this contract they are admitting that they have absolutely no chance to win a title once they get there…. so Joe Johnson = more nights Phillips Arena is open every year and that I guess is worth 119 million over the next 6.

Dukester

July 7th, 2010
1:29 pm

This article 100% right. i have been here all my life and one of the knocks on this city is we dont pay our superstars. Now Joe being a superstar in our eyes is another story. But the bottom line he is considered one in the NBA. I still hope for a sign and trade but if not im cool with the decision they had to do it. Point blank.

Ant

July 7th, 2010
1:30 pm

So what people feel like they overpaid for joe the last time i check one person does not win a ring the hawks over the years have made bad decisions by drafting the Sheldon Williams and even Marvin Williams sorry Marvin but u gotta go bibby too…Bring in a big man and a pure shooter and we can talk about Eastern Finals or maybe the Finals.

Whopper Dawg

July 7th, 2010
1:30 pm

Scotty is right. Exactly right. Don’t forget the if the Bucks were healthy, we are probably out in round 1. Despite the regular season win increase, do you feel better about this team after the playoffs, barely beating a weakened Bucks team and decimated by Orlando or the one that took Boston to the limit in 2009?

The argument that we know we overpaid, but we have done worse things does not hold water, I don’t accept that type of argument from my 13 year old, I don’t think it is an appropriate defense for supposedly professional management.

atl die heart

July 7th, 2010
1:31 pm

the hawks need to sit lebron down and make a big push to show him that we are only a few peices away from a championship with wade and bosh playing for the heat. We could get him through a sign and trade send josh and chills or bibby to cavs and we would still be able to sign shaq that would put 4 all stars in our starting line up. pg teague sg jj sf lebron pf al c shaq with a good bench pg jamal crawford sg jo crawford sf mo pf marvin c za za

atl die heart

July 7th, 2010
1:33 pm

Enter your comments here

Craig

July 7th, 2010
1:34 pm

And we want to lose the sixth man of the year, why? Hawks def overpaid but MB is right they had no other choice or risk alienating the fan base that is just now starting to come around. Used to I couldnt get any of my friends to come to a Hawks game with me. They were all at the playoffs last year. All we need is the rook to develop and for Teague to grow into a man on the court. Hopefully that isnt asking too much…

NC Braves Fan

July 7th, 2010
1:34 pm

The FA market this year has an abundance of bidders and not many REALLY good players to match up — a lot of free agents are going to get a bounty this year. Joe did. Amar’e did. Others will.

We judge the contract now in terms of past playoff performance and of course – dollars and cents. Ultimately, Joe’s deal will be judged on how far the Hawks get into the playoffs in the next 2-3 years.

If Sund makes the right roster moves via trades and signings and the Hawks are able to play for a championship, that contract will be viewed somewhat differently than it is now.

DTC

July 7th, 2010
1:36 pm

Jon Koncack is probably saying “finally, someone else for them to place as the worst Hawks contract ever”. In no more than 3 years, the Hawks will be regretting the fact they have to pay him that kind of money for 3 more years.
They should have let some other team bid for him and let him come crawling back to get a better contract. He is not a number 1 player! AND DON’T EVEN TALK ABOUT SIGNING THAT WRECKED DIESEL, we call Shaq. His good years, were many years ago.

ParkerPuddwhacker69

July 7th, 2010
1:37 pm

The deal is done. Move onto something new or what JJ is talking about recruiting talent? What is his personality going to bring?

Hawk n the Ham

July 7th, 2010
1:40 pm

43!!

Sutton's Fro

July 7th, 2010
1:41 pm

Just like I tell fans who deride the Braves for “only” winning one WS during the Streak….how would fans in “name a city (like Pittsburgh)” feel if their team had done the same thing?

Would Grizzlies fans trade places with Hawks fans over the last 6 seasons? How about the Wizards, Warriors, Pacers, or Knicks? Hell, look at the Raptors: since getting Vince Carter (and then Bosh), they flirted with winning seasons and occasionally made the playoffs, with a first-round exit. When Bosh was scheduled to become a free agent, the Raptors were NOWHERE on his list of teams to play for.

I think this team is good enough to get to the conference finals, with some improved coaching/teamwork; and another star away from contending for an NBA title. Maybe Jeff Teague or Jordan Crawford will develop into that star. Maybe Josh Smith will final get his head straight, and play max-out within his own talents. Maybe a 55-win season this year attracts a FA signing next year.

Mark is right; this team should not have been “blown up” to rebuild. And letting JJ leave would have been step one of “blowing up.”

Time

July 7th, 2010
1:43 pm

What’s done is done. They signed JJ. Now we can only hope he steps his game up and tries to live up to the max money he’s receiving. If he goes back to the slashing catch and shoot Joe from his Pheonix days then he can atleast come close to living up to his salary. He also needs to step up in the leadership department. I get the sense sometimes that he has held down our younger players, not that I think he wants do hold them down, but the younger players look up to him and defer to him. He needs to be a leader, a max player should always be the floor leader. You wanted it Joe, now you got it. If you think the fans were harsh before, you’re not going to like what they say if you go ISO all the time and we lose and you’re making just as much as LeBron and Wade and Kobe.

I’m also amused at this notion that it was somehow automatic the Hawks would be worse without Joe next year. Sure, on paper, that would be the case. But the game is not played on paper. What couldn’t be seen, and won’t now, is how the young core (Al, Josh, Marvin) would react to a Joe-less Hawks. I believe that all three would have stepped up. Especially Marvin whose game takes the biggest hit with Joe out there dribbling away the clock half the time.

We Need Tree

July 7th, 2010
1:43 pm

I have asked before but I will ask again…does anyone know what Drew’s scheme/strategy will be? Is there any reason to believe he will speed the Hawks up? Is there any reason to believe the Hawks will play harder for him?

Mr. Phil

July 7th, 2010
1:44 pm

Granted Speedy Claxton was worse and Koncak debatable. However, I reject the idea that losing Johnson would have been the death blow everyone expected. More specifically, I reject the notion that losing J-J-J-Joe would have been a point of derision. I know of several including myself that are so fed up with Joe Johnson that we were willing to let him go no matter the consequence. I would point to my former twitter account as evidence but I will be deleting it shortly.

That said. I am a true Hawks fan. I forgave them for Dominique, Konwack, and many more horrible moves. I will get past this and continue to support whosoever wheres the uniform. No matter how much I hate his guts.

Mr. Phil

July 7th, 2010
1:45 pm

wheres=wears

odogg

July 7th, 2010
1:47 pm

The only good reason to attend a Hawks game is to past time. We know from day one they have no chance of winning a championship. They should have let Joe go and brought back Josh Childress to replace him. We would win a minimum of 45 games with Josh C. Jeff Teague would make up half of Joe’s 20 points scoring average. Josh C. would add 14 and rookie Jordan Crawford can add 8-10 points. Taking one step back would have been good for one year. The Hawks are done for the next 4 years.

Herschel Talker

July 7th, 2010
1:47 pm

MB:

You were quite prophetic. This is Troy Glaus in April. This contract is terrible, and in the short-run it will keep them winning, but in the long run, it will harm them severely.

HT

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
1:48 pm

Mark, you completely missed the point on why fans abandoned the Hawks. It wasn’t because they attempted to rebuild. It was because their multiple attempts to rebuild failed miserably each time. The first time, they didn’t expect to lose Grant Long, for Hendu and Crawford to never contribute meaningfully again, and I think they saw Rider as a write off at worst, not expecting him to become the poison he was to this team.

After that failed, they assembled a lot of talented players who, for whatever reason, couldn’t play fundamental basketball together. If those teams had worked out the way a lot of pundits had expected, the Hawks wouldn’t have lost as much.

The reason the Hawks lost their audience and became a laughing stock was not because they decided to re-tune. It was because they willingly turned themselves into the east coast version of the LA Clippers. A team’s rebuilding process isn’t supposed to take a decade. How many coaches or GMs do you hear out there preaching a 10 year plan? And do you think anyone would listen to one that does?

A far more salient lesson from that experience is the dangers of blowing a good team up to try to build a better team. I honestly don’t think Babs and the rest of the Hawks organization had it that well planned out; it seemed like a knee-jerk reaction to losing to a much younger, more athletic Knicks team (which is probably another reason not to not re-sign JJ based on last year’s playoffs). However, no matter how good your plans sound on paper, there’s a good chance they won’t work out that well. Tinkering with a good team is a lot safer than making major changes to try to make it great.

brad

July 7th, 2010
1:48 pm

Enter your comments here

Stat Man

July 7th, 2010
1:49 pm

What’s the big deal? Basketball is just catching up to baseball, where the majority of players are also grossly overpaid. Why should this sport be different?

Also, the Stoudimire (sp?) contract in NY is worse, because they already had a player (Lee) that is as good or better (good article at ESPN-New York about this).

I agree – it’s a gross overpayment, but even without JJ the team is still too good to just blow up and start over. So stay very good (yet not elite) for a while VS. crawling in as the 8 seed, never getting into the lottery and get humiliated in Round 1 instead of Round 2 every year being the choices – I think the Hawks made the right choice.

Now we just need to hope all the “FIRE WOODY” people were right and Drew can tweak the team – which is possibly all they need, I mean 53 win seasons are pretty damn good!

brad

July 7th, 2010
1:51 pm

Remember, the Hawks did make it to the 2nd round. Only 8 teams in the entire league did that. If the Hawks would have drawn the Celtics instead of the Magic, they very well could have been in the Eastern Conference Finals.

atl die heart

July 7th, 2010
1:51 pm

MB is this possible

the hawks need to sit lebron down and make a big push to show him that we are only a few peices away from a championship with wade and bosh playing for the heat. We could get him through a sign and trade send josh and chills or bibby to cavs and we would still be able to sign shaq that would put 4 all stars in our starting line up. pg teague sg jj sf lebron pf al c shaq with a good bench pg jamal crawford sg jo crawford sf mo pf marvin c za za

Nick

July 7th, 2010
1:52 pm

atl die heart…are you in fantasy land? LeBron is NEVER coming to Atlanta…

Dukester

July 7th, 2010
1:53 pm

Fast forward to the future will Joe be playing at the level that Ray Allen is playing now if so then its worth it. And i understand the logic about taking a couple steps back but this is Atlanta and this is the hawks. Come on give me a break guys this team dont have that luxury man. Its hard to get to the top tier in this league and its even harder to keep top tier players. The hawks just did. Believe me the knicks and bulls have been down so long they would pay the lease on phillips arena to get Joe. I know its bitter fellas but its reality. So lets move on. Lets push for Brandon Haywood, and another free agent that can shoot the 3ptr and try again next year man. At least we will be in the hunt.

Luke Cage

July 7th, 2010
1:54 pm

KYLE KORVER KYLE KORVER KYLE KORVER KYLE KORVER KYLE KORVER

James

July 7th, 2010
1:55 pm

I’m not spending my money going to any hawks games they overpaid for a player that doesn’t show leadership or emotion on the court. They could have gotten two or three solid players for the price they are paying for Joe. I would have rather them signed and traded him to Dallas for Caron Butler and Brendon Haywood but they didn’t do that they want to keep the same team together which is not a championship team only a playoff team that’s gonna get bounced in the second round or maybe even the first round.

northcyde

July 7th, 2010
1:59 pm

Scotty

July 7th, 2010
1:14 pm

Mark, disagree with the arguments. By resigning Joe to the max, you are not telling your fans you want to compete, you’re telling your fans that you are happy with having a team with a 2nd Round ceiling. i think most Hawks fans would rather see us be worse in the short term, but with financial flexibility to spend money down the road to significantly improve the team through trade or free agency. now, we’ll be mediocre in the short term and bad in the long run, when the contract DOES become an albatross and we’re stuck.

**********************************

Come on now Scotty. This is the same fan base that FREAKS OUT after every bad loss to a sub-par team. The Knicks beat us 3 times last year, and you’d think that the world was ending each time they beat us.

This is the same Hawk franchise that couldn’t even make the dang playoffs, nor less make it to the 2nd round for about 10 years prior to the 2008 – 09 season. Matter of fact, we’ve NEVER made it out of the 2nd round since the franchise has been in Atlanta.

The average fan has called the ASG “cheap” ever since they’ve taken control of the Hawks. Now when they spend big money to retain their best player, the fans all of a sudden cry “fiscal responsibility”?

LOL . . come on now.

I disagree with Bradley’s takes 80% of the time, but he’s dead on with this one.

As you can see ( or can’t see ) this summer, we are in a NUCLEAR ARMS RACE. We have 2 potential superpowers in our own division ALONE. How in the heck are we supposed to compete against that, if we lose a key piece to the puzzle in JJ?

Orlando isn’t getting any weaker. Miami just got A LOT stronger. And if Lebron joins them, what the heck are we supposed to do for the next 4 – 5 years?

- Hope that Smoove develops into that offensive superstar by him finally making 40% of his jumpers and developing a post game?

- Hope that Horford turns into the next Karl Malone, while having to play center alongside Smoove?

- Hope that Teague turns into the next Kevin Johnson?

- Hope that some big time free agent WANTS to play in Atlanta, even though historically, that has almost NEVER HAPPENED?

The fact is that none of those players may never reach that superstar level. They may only be 3rd tier stars, because they lack things in their offensive games that will prevent them from reaching that next level offensively.

And there is no guarantee that “cap room” will bring in a major free agent. Chicago has a GREAT looking young team, but as of right now, their cap room hasn’t helped them ONE BIT. And we’re talking Chicago here . . not Atlanta or New Orleans . . . CHICAGO.

All of these free agents are coming EAST, or are being re-shuffled to form good teams in the East. If we’d blinked with JJ, we’re looking at a situation right now in which Chicago would be ALL OVER this guy right now, making them a much stronger team. And what would be left with? A “coveted” sign and trade involving Kirk Hinrich or Luou Deng?

Man please.

Not re-signing JJ would’ve had ramifications that not only would’ve seen us slip this season, but also kept us out of any contention for a EC Finals appearance for next 2 – 4 years.

MIAMI: Chalmers – Wade – Beasley ( who may be traded to make way for Lebron, or another decent free agent ) – Bosh – Jermain O’Neal ( possibly )

CHICAGO: Rose – JJ ( if the Hawks hadn’t gone aggressively after him, they’d get JJ ) – Deng – Gibson – Noah

MILWAUKEE: Jennings – Salmons – Redd – Ilyasova – Bogut

You’re lookiing at these 3 teams possibly jumping us, had we lost JJ . . along with Orlando and Boston still being very good teams. Then we also have to worry about these teams:

NEW YORK: Felton ( possibly . . they’ll go after him aggressively now ) – Douglas – Gallanari – Amare – Lee

CHARLOTTE: Augustin – Jackson – G. Wallace – Mohammad – Chandler . . ( Charlotte was the best defensive team in the league last year under Larry Brown, so they’ll still be in the mix for a lower tier playoff spot )

**************

So what in the world were we supposed to do if we’d let JJ make ANOTHER TEAM better than us?

JJ’s contract will become a trade asset in years 5 and 6, if JJ is still a relatively productive basketball player. If he can still shoot the 3-ball and knock down open mid-range jumpers, some championship caliber team looking for a shooter to compliment their star player, will trade scrubs for JJ. It happens all the time in this league.

LOL @ 2nd round ceiling. Our ceiling would’ve been #6 seed, without JJ in the mix here. By retaining him, we at least have a puncher’s chance in the next 2 to 3 years, rather than almost NO CHANCE.

papadawg

July 7th, 2010
2:00 pm

Hawks management are complete idiots to pay so MUCH money for someone who didn’t bother to show up for the playoffs and they wonder why no fans show up for their games

atl die heart

July 7th, 2010
2:09 pm

no nick because lebron wants to win and with wade and bosh playing for the heat he will need more fire power and like i said we are only a few peices away

Left to Right

July 7th, 2010
2:09 pm

It will be money wasted if Lebron goes to Miami.

ryan

July 7th, 2010
2:09 pm

John Koncac was a terrible player when before Joe got here the Hawks were lottery team. Then when J.J. was traded here things got better so haters saying we be better off with out Joe just look at what going to hit Cleveland and the Suns.

atl die heart

July 7th, 2010
2:11 pm

Nick were would rather go chi ny cle or atl
look at the rosters before you decide atl have the most all stars

sam'l

July 7th, 2010
2:12 pm

Still think the NBA is dead…..as well as the Hawks…..

But for people who might still enjoy grown tattoed thugs running up and down a floor and making millions…….

Please be real…..The Hawks have a core of four good players, as mentioned above….Jamal, Joe, Josh and Al. Shaq in addition to being allowed to get away with pushing and shoving with no fouls throughout his career, sort of like Dwight Howard’s invisible elbows which somehow cause very visible headaches and bruises…in addition to Shaq’s hype and his overall out of it attitude and latitude at playing by NBA rules…..he is probably in the last year of his career and injury prone. Disaster for any team.

Josh Smith showed some signs of waking up last year…..even asleep he would remain a Hawk star…..and we want to get rid of him? Wouldn’t it have made sense to have hired someone who could help IMPROVE him? (Drew might…but don’t count on it)

Teague….he’s fast, could learn….could improve like Tony Parker, Rondo….but when you look at him on the floor, he just doesn’t carry himself well……possible head case here….(just a one-game opinion…prove me wrong Jeff)

The center….There are now 8 billion or so people on the planet…we are only looking for one HEALTHY, reasonably young, hungry, available center……..and if the Hawks are supposedly “out of debt” as one report says, a strong point for this team and willing to pay the price…..they will find someone The lure should be what Cleveland was to Ilgauskas…..come to us and we’ll go to the finals.. Our new ambassador to the stars, Joe Johnson, isn’t going to be able to make that claim to anyone who saw the Orlando fiasco last year.

Childress…..Don’t understand why he’s ticked at the Hawks and wouldn’t play for us out of spite…..We had to sign Josh Smith and that is why he Childress was relegated to the background the year he left. I saw video of Childress in Europe….looked like a college game…totally unimpressed at the overall level of play…..too bad….Drew….can you convince Josh Childress to play for you? Make me proud.

Bibby….should be made an assistant coach….and agree to reduction in salary…to further his own career. Much as I like Bibby’s fight and savvy, he left a huge stench with his play last year.

Lebron…….will probably end up…….in jail. (just a feeling)….I’m not a fan….and the NBA is partially responsible…..do you think one year they’ll figure out that Lebron is NOT fouled every time the game is down under two minutes and he starts a wild drive to the basket?).

The NBA is for all intents and purposes dead……but as far as the suggestions we’re getting from the fans, apparently there are worse things than death…… .

northcyde

July 7th, 2010
2:14 pm

GT Alum . . what you say isn’t true at all.

When we made the trade for Glen Robinson, he was an All-Star caliber forward. A lot of ESPN “experts” had the Hawks winning 45+ games. We had a good PG in JT . . a bonafide shooter in Big Dog . . and a solid 20 pt – 10 rebs guy in Reef. But the Hawks had no bench whatsoever.

They didn’t decide to “blow it up” until 2003, after JT basically wanted out. So they did what all teams that blow it up does . . . trade their high salary good players, and tried to rebuild the team via high draft pics and by acquiring a free agent or two along the way.

Our rebuilding process was slowed, because we missed out on Chris Paul/Deron Williams, and Brandon Roy. Hindsight says that we shoud’ve at least nabbed one of those guys. But we didn’t. That slowed the rebuilding.

The ATL fan base has proven time and again that losing basketball = empty seats. It doesn’t matter if we’re rebuilding or not. Hell . . mediocre basketball = empty seats, because the fan base is nowhere near as loyal to the Hawks, as they say they are.

The Hawks won 53 games for the first time in about 13 years, yet, our attendance slightly DECREASED this year. A lot of people have gone over the reasons for that in the Hawks blog, when I bring this up. But it’s still a fact. But I won’t go all into that again. Anybody that have seen my rants on the apathetic ATL fans know exactly where I stand on this.

The fact is that if the Hawks had lost JJ, and slipped back to a .500 or slightly below team, the fans aren’t paying their money to see this team. They just aren’t. They’ve proven that too many times to think otherwise.

MightyQuinn

July 7th, 2010
2:17 pm

The question in my mind is this: IF Wade and Bosh sign for less and IF LeBron then signs for max money with Miami, does it matter (financially speaking) whether we signed JJ, because even with JJ we would NEVER get past Orlando, AND Miami, AND Boston (I know, Bostons getting older by the minute, but they’re still good) in a single playoff season. So it wouldn’t matter if we did or did not sign JJ, we still lose. Without JJ’s contract, we would just lose cheap. I don’t know.

MJB

July 7th, 2010
2:19 pm

The shear fact that y’all care so much is proof of what Joe has done for the hawks, no one gave a freaking damn before he came here i went to those games and recall them begging people to buy more tickets. The organization was always showcasing the stars that were coming to town… “Come see Kobe light it up” “Michael Jordan is back in the NBA watch him and the wiz come destroy the Hawks” “Come see rookie phenom Lebron James fly” now we’re one of the top teams in the NBA and if argue that point ur stupid because only 3 teams at a better home record and maybe 5 had a better overall record. U gotta pay to get to the top and u gotta pay to stay there… Wins don’t come cheap in the NBA… at least not for long. Plus i love JJ!!!! And i suffered too much horrible basketball over the years to see it go away in the time it takes for him to fly to NY and instantly fall in love. Anybody who cant appreciate JJ is not a true hawks fan… support ur team no matter what (U don’t see Madison Square Garden not selling out)

JJ

July 7th, 2010
2:24 pm

Overpaying JJ is done with. I’ve moved on. What remains to be seen is what happens henceforth. What moves will ASG make to better the team from here on out? Absent a trade, they don’t have a lot of wiggle room. But suffice it say, maintaining the “status quo” going into next season will most certainly NOT instill a lot of confidence from this fan. Resigning JJ was step one. An obvious decision, for some. Now the real tough decisions start. We’re watching…….and waiting…….

Howie

July 7th, 2010
2:24 pm

Mark, you are right on…the option of overpaying JJ was better for the Hawks and their fans than letting him go…now we have to hope that LaBron stays in Cleveland and does not move to Miami.

Brent

July 7th, 2010
2:25 pm

Lesser of two evils. MB is right , much as it hurts the Hawks did what they had to do to remain relevant. ASG finally did the right thing, even if it is the wrong thing. Wow

mmi

July 7th, 2010
2:26 pm

@DTC shaq wouldnt dare come to atlanta he wants to go to a CONTENDER and win another ring,nuff said!JJ was overpaid we all know that… the hawks barely beat an injured bucks team,and got their butts handed to them by a history making (hawks vs magic 09-10 playoffs) magic team.bosh playing wit wade now makes the hawks 5th maybe 6th best in the east!now all you hawks fans take your 120 mill overpaid none appreciating guy and deal wit it.

TONE

July 7th, 2010
2:31 pm

is it true that the big names that sign with miami may look like they are getting a smaller contract but they will actually make more because of the no income tax.

MCLOVIN

July 7th, 2010
2:35 pm

next season’s regular season standings
1) Cleveland
2) Miami
3) Orlando
4) Boston
5) chicago
6) Atlanta
7) who cares
see above

we get embarrased by orlando again only this time its with 120 million dollar JJ in the first round.
orlando or miami wins it all

DP

July 7th, 2010
2:36 pm

Mark, I think the Joe Johnson issue has been beaten to death and nobody on either side of the question is changing their mind.

On a topic that is more relevant, I agree with you that signing a washed up Shaq for 2 years would be a bad decision. If the ASG is actually willing to spend the mid level exception on a free agent, I think Raymond Felton would be a far better investment than Shaq. Larry Drew’s public comments suggest he wants to play fast and have a lot more ball movement, which plays to Felton’s strengths. Unlike Bibby, Felton would actually handle the ball and run the offense in the frontcourt which would result in less iso-Joe. I think Josh Smith and Al Horford would both be a lot more productive if the Hawks had an actual ball distributor on the roster. Teague was a shoot first point guard at Wake Forest.

Mr. Phil

July 7th, 2010
2:36 pm

In the what to do now category:

MB what will it take to get our hands on Javale Mcgee or Anthony Randolph. Either one of them could put to rest this whole is Horford a center or PF argument and get this team moving in a great direction.

Crippled Hawks

July 7th, 2010
2:38 pm

MB,

Gotta disagree that the team would be worse without JJ… Pulling off a sign and trade would have given this team many more options…

1. Chicago was interested (Derrick Rose wanted JJ as his 2G)… sign and trade for Luol Deng and a protected #1 pick in 2011. This scenario gives us a guy in Deng who can score if he has to. Maybe not the 22ppg we are accustomed to, but Deng is a 17ppg scorer, an able rebounder at the wing position, and can shoot well from 15-18ft out. Plus he gives the flexibility to play the SF position, something that Marvin Williams has failed at for 4+ years. It also gives us the ability to make an offer to Josh Childress and not fall into the luxury tax. So this scenario deepens our bench (by adding Childress, and moving Williams to the bench), replaces a majority of Johnson’s scoring, and doesnt cripple the franchise for the next 6 years.

2. Lebron wanted to bring him to Cleveland, sign and trade #2 sends Johnson to Cleveland in return for probably Anderson Varjeao and Delonte West. This scenario brings us a solid defensive and rebounding center (a la Joakim Noah) and a solid playmaking guard who is one of the top perimeter defenders in the East in Delonte West. Not only that, but West is fully capable of playing the point, and both guys bring much needed energy to the team. It also allows us the possiblity of trading Josh Smith (who lets face it, is peaking right now.. SELL HIGH!) and allowing Horford to play the PF position, where he would DOMINATE the competition. You would also be pairing 2 of the premiere offensive rebounders in the game together with Horford and Varajeao. Plus you get Bibby out of the lineup finally (who no matter what anybody says, he is a terrifying liability all the time on both sides of the ball).

I think either of those situations put the hawks in a position to continue to make the playoffs.

The key thing to remember about JJ is this… in 5 years in atlanta he’s never gotten any BETTER. He’s peaked. 22ppg is respectable, but is it worth $20M per year? No, just ask Knicks about Allan Houston, or Hornets fans about Peja, or Magic fans about Rashard Lewis … hey, all of those guys disappeared in the playoffs throughout their career too.

And I know there’s always questions about whether those trade scenarios are likely, but I think those 2 possibilities would have peaked interest from those teams, and the hawks should have tried.

I’ve had to sit back and watch the Hawks pass over Chris Paul and Deron Williams to draft Marvin Williams… pass over Brandon Roy to draft Shelden Williams… now I have to watch them give this contract to Joe Johnson, and make a desperate pitch to bring in a 38-year old Shaq? When is it enough?

We Need Tree

July 7th, 2010
2:42 pm

How do we know how players will fit into Drew’s system….no one knows what type of system he runs?

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
2:44 pm

So what, northcyde? Unless this team makes the MAJOR kind of improvements that you talk about, they have ZERO chance of making the conference finals. They automatically slot no higher than 4th next year, behind Orlando, Boston, Miami and, if LeBron goes elsewhere, probably that team as well. And given how we played against the Bogut-less Bucks, I’m not sure we’re ahead of them. Even with JJ, the Hawks still might be the 6th best team in the East next year.

And of course people are outraged that we’re spending approximately the same money, maybe more, on JJ as LeBron, Kobe, etc are getting. He’s obviously nowhere near the same player. I think what many people don’t understand is the kooky salary cap rules say that we can spend that much on JJ but we can’t spend anywhere near that much on anyone else.

As far as the arms race metaphor goes, I think a lot of people realize there is a cap and we have limited resources, so they’re worried signing him limits our ability to build any more from where we are. And they’re right.

Manny

July 7th, 2010
2:45 pm

If we get a big guy, we can still be stronger than what most people would believe. Here are the wild-cards: Jeff Teague, a possible big man and Josh Smith.

Did Jeff Teague learn anything? Can he play quarterback? Can he be a leader? The PG position is SOOOO important to the Hawks right now. We lose or win at the PG position.

Big Man? We’ve talked about that ad nauseum.

Josh Smith. Can he keep his mind right? Can he keep his motor on high? Can he leave the referees alone? When Josh Smith plays well, the Hawks are contenders. When Josh Smith plays like he really want to be somewhere else, the Hawks lose by 30. That’s it. I would like to see Josh Smith come back after this summer with a post-up game. It may calm down his volatility.

Ryder

July 7th, 2010
2:45 pm

The problem is if JJ feels he has to live up to the contract and tries to do too much and hurts the development of the younger players.

That said, I think that’s not the problem. Atlanta is one effective big man away from being a threat in the East. Shaq may not be an All-Star anymore but he’s better than any of Horford’s backups.

The key is Drew and his offensive system. If he creates a more wide open offense that will prevent JJ from having to be the first, second, and third options on offense. Secondly, teams will have to respect Atlanta’s ability to run which in turn can prepare them on the defensive end.

glenn

July 7th, 2010
2:49 pm

Yeah we had to overpay to keep Jon Koncak so we could contend . We lost that first year in the first round to the Bucks after we paid him . If the Bucks had Andrew Bogut we would have lost in the first round this year . We will lose in the first round next year . We are not a better team . Being cheap is not the same as being smart with your money . If the Hawks were serious about winning they would have spent money on a better head coach .

extremus

July 7th, 2010
2:53 pm

Mr. Bradley, this move may be necessary to keep the Hawks a playoff team for the time being, but let’s face it, in the NBA that’s meaningless. Sixteen teams, over half of the league, make it in every season while maybe three or four have an actual legitimate chance of winning a championship. And right now the Atlanta Hawks are not one of those teams. What that means is that they didn’t save the organization from going under (a fate I think that will be shared by many sports franchises within the next decade); they just put it off awhile longer.

You want fan interest to go up or even remain at its current dispassionate level? Sorry, it ain’t happening. Fans are intelligent enough to see that there’s blood in the water; the leagues and especially the smaller markets across pro sports simply cannot maintain the utterly ridiculous salaries of free agents, and if they lose money for long enough they’ll do what any sensible business would do; they’ll implode into much smaller, bigger-market leagues if they don’t disband altogether. Why root for whether your team will be the one to lure in the latest prima donna mercenary for a title run that’s really all about THEM; I mean, seriously, LeBron James holding his own hour-long press conference on ESPN to announce his decision basically says “I am bigger than the sport and everyone else in it. Fall down and worship me.” I and many other fans are frankly sick to death of all these bloated egos strutting around in sports today; that’s why we can care less about the NBA especially in general.

Let’s look at where the Hawks were after getting thoroughly humiliated by Orlando a few weeks ago, and where they are now. Pretty much exactly the same group of guys, while the Magic are still there and the Heat now have added Bosh to play alongside Wade. The powers in the East have gotten stronger or maintained their status above Atlanta, while the Hawks have gone all in with Joe Johnson just to try to keep the status quo. They just threw max money (more than a tenth of a BILLION DOLLARS, people) at a player who publicly dissed their fans and basically laid down and died like everyone else in the playoffs. It’d be like one of us getting a huge raise after making a racial slur at work; why the double standard where athletes are concerned, whether they’re stars or not? Will a first-year coach be able to come in and change the inconsistent, at times lackadaisical culture around this team? I think not, because in the end, regardless of his own determination and personality, he’s not the one playing on the court. And now he has to deal with a probably even more inflated ego in Joe Johnson.

Stick a fork in the Hawks and probably most of the NBA; they’re done. There may be a slight pulse, but it’s only a matter of time.

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
2:54 pm

northcyde, no, they blew it up in 99 when they traded Smitty and Blaylock. When you trade your two best players, that’s blowing the team up. The Hawks would have more now if they had let JJ go than they did then after those trades. They might not have meant to blow it up, but they did. If they had just traded Mookie (which many people have said is what they should’ve done), it wouldn’t have been blowing it up. But trading Mookie and Smitty was blowing that team up.

MightyQuinn

July 7th, 2010
2:54 pm

Someone noted on here that the Hawks attendance actually DROPPED this year, in the midst of the best season they had since Nique was here (I think thats accurate, correct me if I’m wrong). And this was BEFORE JJ shot his mouth off about ATL and its fans. If they were apathetic/ambivalent about the Hawks before the playoffs and JJ’s pr gaffe, what are they going to do THIS year? So now you have more money going out than last year, and less coming in. Then add the Wade/Bosh/James Heat in the mix and the apathy/ambivalence just increases, leading to less income. I realize the Hawks were in a damned if you, damned if you don’t predicament. I’m also glad I didn’t have to make the call.

Hoops

July 7th, 2010
2:54 pm

Mark,

Great article! I agree with you. The Hawks had to re-sign JJ if they are going to continue their climb to a championship. I am realizing that it takes many years and many additions and substrations to a team to get to the NBA Championship!

The Hawks need to add a 5 and a PG now. There are many trade opportunities that will get the Hawks closer to that prize! Signing Shaq would be a start in that direction IMO. There is not a better center available to the Hawks than Shaq.

PG? CP3 is not available unless you will take Okafor. I wouldn’t go there because we would have to give up Josh and not be able to get Shaq. Get a PG that will be able to share the duties with Teague while he is developing this year. Watson, Livingston, etc.

Marcus

July 7th, 2010
2:55 pm

We had to do it for all the reasons mentioned in MB’s blog. Now tith Miami apparently boosting its firepower and ORL being ORL, the next ATL Hawks move is decide which attack to parry: old nemesis ORL (D. Howard) or rebolstered threat in MIA w/Wade and Bosh.

Heck, one may argue if we bolster our roster to improve overall perimeter defense (critical vs. ORL shooters) instead of being tunnel-visioned towards a “Dwight-stopper”, that may help all-around.

Najeh Davenpoop

July 7th, 2010
2:57 pm

Good article, and co-sign O’Brien at 1:06.

ChippersLoveChild

July 7th, 2010
2:57 pm

The problem isn’t keeping and paying Joe it’s that other teams are passing the Hawks by, in my opinion, in terms of talent.. I know we aren’t through free agency yet, ESPN won’t let me forget that, but at this point in time I’d put the Celtics, Heat, Magic, and at least the Bucks ahead of the Hawks… possibly Cleveland depending on what happens with LBJ… it’s nice to compete and contend, but there should be no dreams of championships running through the heads of Hawks fans, because that isn’t going to happen.

The Real JC

July 7th, 2010
3:00 pm

@DP – finally, someone talking about Felton – he’d be an amazing addition to the Hawks.

Don’t know if he’s available at the MLE, though – come tomorrow night, there are going to be a lot of spurned LeBron suitors with a ton of cap space who might overspend on Felton as a conciliatory prize.

Paddy

July 7th, 2010
3:04 pm

But Mark, the fans have already stop caring and buying tickets. JJ is not going to win the hearts of the fans back IMHO.

Navigator

July 7th, 2010
3:06 pm

They had to!!! Why did they have to??? Just say no, or more importantly, offer him less, a lot less and if he won’t take it, then play in NY for a lot less than the Hawks lower offer. Nobody wanted him at that price tag, so don’t cover for the morons that run the Hawks. Now for the next 6 years the Hawks have no chance being in the playoff mix for the Eastern Division. Now tell me why they had to again.

DeepDiver

July 7th, 2010
3:07 pm

Mark, sounds like you finally did your homework before posting this entry. The Hawks were between a rock and hard place on this one — there was no way to be a player for any A list free agent because of the cap situation. They faced having to deal with a bad contract in a few years or having to take a significant step backwards with no guarantee of a return to success (it took them a decade to get this far).

I’ll give credit where it’s due — I would have expected another ‘we should’ve made a run at Lebron’ entry from you.

Fear the DEER!

July 7th, 2010
3:08 pm

FEAR THE DEER!

Seneca Media LLC » Blog Archive » The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it

July 7th, 2010
3:08 pm

[...] The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo! Sports and the blog Ball Don’t Lie calls it: “Worst contract, ever.” John Hollinger of ESPN.com’s Insider (link requires registration) … http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2010/07/07/the-hawks-overpaid-for-joe-johnson-but-they-had-to... [...]

D

July 7th, 2010
3:09 pm

Mark, you hit this right on the head. I do agree that JJ is not worth the money the Hawks are going to pay him but he may be “re-coachable” with LD coming in and letting him and the rest of them how the play the game of fundamental basketball and not try to be a bunch of overpaid superstars.

Yes, I remember the “worst” contract ever with Jon Koncak. How can you pay someone $2.5 million dollars averaging more fouls than points and your superstar (Dominique Wilkins) wasn’t making that? I know this was done under the old management, but it appears that history with the Hawks is going to repeat itself. I called that deal with Detroit a “sucker” deal and they should’ve sent JK up there.

Now, don’t get me started on the acquistion of Shaq…WTH??

balismith

July 7th, 2010
3:10 pm

i think it was a joke to pay johnson that much money. I believe standings wise the hawks will regress…i wish coach dreew all the luck in the worldbut joe thinks he is a superstar..and joe will not share the ball..teamwise i believe their will be a lot of jealousy concerning joe s contract . it really is hard being a hawks fan. The hawks organization has always been second rate, since the day they aarrived from st louis.some things never change

ATL STEVE

July 7th, 2010
3:12 pm

Scotty…name 1 FA that would even think of coming here…don’t worry, I’ll wait. You and some of these other folks are absolutely dillusional! We’ve been down this “rebuiliding road” before and it’s not cute! You overpaid to get him here and if you hadn’t, we would still stink! Build from what you have!

Marcus

July 7th, 2010
3:13 pm

Also, here in the Philly area, teh local sports hack radio guys always rail on one franchise or the other trying to one-up one another or steal headlines. Most of it reeks of paranoia or deep-ingrained angst and over-analysis, but I will say this in the ATL case:

Hawks management needs the team to stay relevant (meaning in playoff or Eastern Conf. contention) given that the Braves are surpassing 2010 expectations (including the Heyward rookie hoopla) and the Falcons finally achieving consecutive wining seasons and having increased expectations for 2010. The 2 franchises owned by the ASG are arguably the stepchildren for ATL metro fan base behind college football, the Falcons and Braves. No way they can afford (literally and figuratively) to lose ground on the fan base goodwill now.

Simply Hampton

July 7th, 2010
3:16 pm

Before reading this blog I was a town crier yelling let Joe Go but this blog makes me see it from the other side. Did we over pay you betcha. Did we have a choice I still think we did. This team does not play like a team. If you let joe go and bring some team players say a shooter and a big. I’m not so sure we would not be a better team. Drew’s job is gonna be a nightmare of trying to get four individuals ( because I think Al knows how to play team ball he did it at Florida) to play team ball. If he can’t that three year contract will be cut short. I love all of my Georgia teams so I continue to root for them but sometimes its just frustrating to watch the hawks because they have all of that untapped potential and I hope drew is the coach to unlock it. Again I’m not sure.

Andre

July 7th, 2010
3:16 pm

Mark, why did you have to remind us of Jon Kontract!!!

Anthony

July 7th, 2010
3:20 pm

The Hawks need to hire me as a consultant. I told everyone they should have drafted Chris Paul. I certainly hope they do not plan to sign Shaq. Although I don’t think they would have signed him, but they should have tried to sign Dwayne Wade. That would have put pressure on Joe. No one was going to pay the Max. He was other teams second and third choice to sign. Joe knew that he would get more money in Atlanta and the Hawks should have known that too.
I think Joe is a good choice for Atlanta, and Joe will work hard to prove everyone wrong. But I don’t think Atlanta had to pay that much to resign Joe. I blame the Hawks and not Joe. I would have resigned too for that kind of money..

Jeff

July 7th, 2010
3:24 pm

Wow….a Jon “Contract” reference. Been a while.

Jfreak13713

July 7th, 2010
3:26 pm

This article is a perfect example of a liberal mentality when it comes to spending money and that is “don’t worry tomorrow when you can spend it today!” Lets just kick the can down the road and let some other idiot deal with an aging player with a huge contract. It wouldn’t be so bad if the deal made the Hawks better with a potential to wind championship, but the Hawks may be the 5th or 6th place team in the East this year? If they really play well they will finish 3rd of 4th like last year. In my opinion this deal hurts the Hawks and I’d rather take the pain now and build a TRUE contender for the future.

With that said having J.J. does make the Hawks better than if he wasn’t here. J.J. is a very good player and the biggest part of why the Hawks have been a very good team the past few years. It’s nice to know that we have a team that will make the playoffs and most nights is fun to watch play. I hope the Hawks another move or two that will help improve their playoff chances?

I hear Shaq is on the Radar of the Hawks and I think this deal would really change the makeup of this team. Assuming Shaq is healthy and plays 25 – 30 mins per game then Horford could move the PF spot where I think his numbers would improve. I know Shaq doesn’t have much left but he takes up space and can rebound. We’ll see??

ArtVandelay

July 7th, 2010
3:28 pm

Are you joking! Johnson is not a max player, whatever franchise was going to give him a max deal should’ve been allowed to. Goodbye JJohnson. What can JJ do that Jamal Crawford can’t?

SteveW

July 7th, 2010
3:28 pm

Mark – i agree with you! i can’t believe it – wow, I’m stunned.

I have more talent in my left finger than Joe Johnson

July 7th, 2010
3:30 pm

I guess the Hawks will be exiting in 2nd round maybe even first round for the next six years

REALLY??

July 7th, 2010
3:37 pm

What a joke!!! This is why the Hawks will NEVER win a ring!!!

I have more talent in my left finger than Joe Johnson

July 7th, 2010
3:38 pm

Why does everyone think Amare is going to turn around the Knicks? He couldnt compete playing with the best PG and great role players.

Wade and Bosh will not win anything because they have no role players. I predict heat will be the 6th seed and exit in the first round. Unless they sign James

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
3:38 pm

Oh, and you’re about a week late with this article, Mark. This issue has been discussed to death. I think the lines are pretty clearly drawn at this point, and you’re wrong so often that people take the fact that you disagree with them as support for their point of view, so I don’t think this blog is going to change that.

Anyway, it’s a done deal, so all we can do at this point is hope that the Hawks are serious about adding significant pieces and that they are able to do so and that Drew proves that there were better reasons for him getting this job than he was cheap.

bjohndawg

July 7th, 2010
3:42 pm

Koncak …what a bad deal for the Hawks. If memory serves me right and it may not, Detroit played us to a T on that one. Or was it a K.

Tony Eastward

July 7th, 2010
3:43 pm

Mark, you’re kidding me with this article right? This should’ve been the titled of “Final Failureto the Fans” Owners give yourself the pink slip. Let’s really look at the look see factor
- You let the coach go
- You hire his asst (Which has an offense we have never seen in the NBA before)
- None of the big free agents took the hawks as a considered team to play for this year (AGAIN)
- You didnt pick nor sign a strong competive offense guy w/ the strong guys we have on the team so far
- You resigned “4 Jump shot Johnson & too timid to drive to the hole” to a contract that is just @#($#()$$ stupid

What I see is a bunch of NBA guys looking at the hawks management like they are a bundle of 2nd graders. Their treating us like we dont’ understand a 10 dollar bill may have a bigger number on it, but giving me two 5 dollars bills is the same.

I Heart Atlanta

July 7th, 2010
3:44 pm

AMEN, good article

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
3:44 pm

I have more talent… First of all, unless you’re Jordan or Dr. J or some other HOF quality player, your name is a load of crap.

I agree with you about Amare. Phoenix won’t fall of the map without him, and he alone won’t make the Knicks a contender, especially since the Knicks are likely to lose Lee.

However, before we write the Heat off, even after they sign Bosh and Wade, they only have four roster spots filled. I’m not discounting that Riley can fill that roster out with quality players until I see the final product.

Bull Schmitt

July 7th, 2010
3:45 pm

Breaking News: Arthur Blank has agreed to partner with the Atlanta Spirit Group. Lebron James will be seen tomorrow night wearing a Hawks polo enjoying some lasagne with the Blanks.

Pi$$onaDawg

July 7th, 2010
3:45 pm

well, that made sure nobody will buy the Hawks or want to become an investor either.

TimP

July 7th, 2010
3:46 pm

Dang, two posts by MB in one day I agree with. I must be losing it.

Anyways, I don’t think overypaying JJ was so much the Hawks as it is with the NBA in general. For one, this free agent class was hyped up for 2 years. Second, Wade and LeBron literally added value to Stoudamrie, JJ, & Bosh by forcing their teams to get these players in order to sign them. Thirdly, at least 3 teams ( all in the Eastern Conference) unloaded their rosters to have enough cash to sign at least 2 big free agents.

More than likely, all of these modern day Scottie Pippens were going to get max deals anyways. There is no way the Hawks was going to be competitive next season and possibly the season after that if they lost JJ.

ReddJonn68

July 7th, 2010
3:46 pm

Don’t believe the Hype !!! That’s right Hawks fans we have been believing the hype of the media
every time it comes to making decisions concerning this team. Remember when the experts
had Marvin rated as a top 5 can’t miss pick ? Also Josh Childress out of Stanford, 1st team
All-American, hated playing here so bad he went overseas. Not to mention getting duped in the
Bibby trade, Sacremento knew Bibby was washed up when they traded him the only thing
he did was come in & play hard for another contract.

Well now begins the Joe Era this decision is either gonna keep this team competitive or destroy the future of it for the next 5 to 6 yrs. I just don’t see Joe being that difference maker like the other premier players out there. He’s good, but he does not make others around him better. Here’s the
Hype; every media outlet stated the Hawks only option was to resign Joe Johnson

I would like to know what if any back-up plan we had in place if Joe would have sign anywhere
else. Do you mean to tell me none of the those teams, that did not make the playoffs last yr, did
not offer some type of S&T deal, for Joe. If not that speaks volumes as to what we have gotten
ourselves into. I just can’t see paying 20$ for the baked potatoe at a steak dinner.

Bob Horner

July 7th, 2010
3:46 pm

Blair Rasmussen and Adam Keefe….

Bull Schmitt

July 7th, 2010
3:53 pm

According to gossip at ESPN The Comic Book, Arthur Blank has agreed to partner with the Atlanta Spirit Group. Tomorrow evening, LeBron will be seen wearing a Hawks polo enjoying a lovely lasagne dinner with the Blanks.

ReddJonn68

July 7th, 2010
3:55 pm

@Bob Horner Rumeal Robinson and Demarr Johnson….

Just Another Example......

July 7th, 2010
4:04 pm

To all you kool-aid dranking sucker hawk fans……….when was the last time this sorry assed franchise signed a worthy FA?

Gamer

July 7th, 2010
4:05 pm

I’m surprise at the max deal, considering Joe’s age, but no business person can fault Joe Johnson for taken a sweet deal…

I question Hawks’s brass business acumen.

Brian

July 7th, 2010
4:08 pm

The Hawks are a footnote in the east.

With Bosh signing with Miami it pushes the Hawks further down the ladder. Now, they’ll be lucky to hold off a young Bucks team for the lousy 4th seed. Woody might be gone, but all they’ve replaced him with is a nickel and dime assistant coach who nobody else was considering for a head coaching spot.

This franchise will always be 2nd rate at best. They’re not contenders. They just lost a series by 25 points per game. That never happens with a legit contender. It doesn’t happen.

Just Another Example......

July 7th, 2010
4:09 pm

They give PHO way too much to get JJ, and they just made another big mistake by overpaying for a “good” number 2 player.

GT Alum

July 7th, 2010
4:14 pm

LOL, Bull Schmitt. Do they explain how the Hawks clear the cap space necessary?

Just Another Example......

July 7th, 2010
4:16 pm

Thank you Brian…………………..how do you get beat by an avg of 25 ppg in the play-offs, resign your “best” player to a max contract that if they had waited for ny, chi, mia or nj make him a much much lower offer, they (hawks) could have just as easily countered. JJ is all about the money, because God knows this franchise will never ever win a championship.

all you haters

July 7th, 2010
4:22 pm

man, all you haters out there make me sick. Atlanta teams cant win for losing, what does it matter if the Hawks overpaid for Joe, its not any of our money, plus they obviously have it to spend, so why not give it to a guy that is a serious piece of our team. Sure, he might not be on the level of Lebron, Wade, Kobe…but hell who is?? Yall are just a bunch of CRABS IN THE BARREL…….fyi, I can’t stand Joe Johnson, but I’d rather have him on my team than not have him!!

Brian

July 7th, 2010
4:24 pm

They lost when they drafted horrible Marvin Williams over Paul and Williams. That’s when they lost.

Now, this is the Hawks circa 1997 when they won a lot of regular season games only to not do squat in the playoffs.

In a related story....

July 7th, 2010
4:26 pm

I happened to OVERPAY for my Hawks tickets.

(They were free from my employer, by the way.)

NBA = League of Extraordinary Tattoo Freaks & Illegitimate Fathers

Westurd

July 7th, 2010
4:31 pm

we are putting the same team out on the floor again that we had last season…..whats left to say…….

jarvis

July 7th, 2010
4:33 pm

Could be worse. We could be the Knicks.

They cleared up all of that cap space for nothing. They have Amare abd a ton of money to spend. All of that and a buck-twenty-five will win you a cup of coffee.

JASon

July 7th, 2010
4:33 pm

Mark, I disagree with you in that the hawks could have gone out and gotten a Bosh or Wade and still be seen as an organization that wants to compete. As much as I don’t like Joe, I hope and pray that with a coach willing to, er, run an offense, that his style of play will improve while still consistently knocking down the mid range jumpers and putting points on the board. I really don’t care about his leadership if he could hit the shots with under 10 seconds remaining in the game. Til now, he hasn’t though. And thats one more thing we can hope he learns.

Doug

July 7th, 2010
4:34 pm

You act like making the playoffs is some hard task. Half the teams in the league make the playoffs. It was a stupid move for a average player who chokes when the game is on the line and in the playoffs. I won’t be attending any games this year. Go broke. I don’t care anymore.

rainman

July 7th, 2010
4:36 pm

The Hawks really didn’t have any choice but to sign JJ to the max. From a fans standpoint, at least we should have team projected to make the playoffs; and, from an owners standpoint, at least they didn’t lose 30 or 40 mil. in team value overnight.
If we could get Shaq for 2 yrs. at 5.8 – that’s the best we could do to plug the hole – given the financial constraints (even then, the ASG would be subject to luxury tax).
In reality — Teague may determine the Hawks sucess in the next two or three years.

Pete

July 7th, 2010
4:37 pm

They will not beat out Miami and Orl in their division. Think about that. They are not even the 3rd best team in their division and you spend all that money for what? Yeah real smart bradley. No wonder you work for a paper and don’t run a business. You’d fail miserably as the hawks will.

jarvis

July 7th, 2010
4:39 pm

3rd in the Division = 5th in the Conference.
How well does this team play on the road?

Kapoonka

July 7th, 2010
4:41 pm

It;s going to be a very interesting season. I hope the Heat sucks!!!! Wade and Bosh played Chicago to the hilt…you still can’t buy a championship. One ball and two to three “superstars” does not guarantee a winning team. Injury prone Wade and Bosh won’t last the season. The Hawks are still about 2 to 3 players short of being contenders. Get rid of Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin altogether….what a waste of bench space. Marvin Williams and Sheldon Williams were both incredibly dumb picks. Yeah they need a real center for defense..how about Iggy from Cleveland or maybe they can nab Brad Miller (he can shoot 3’s too)? Definitely not Shaq. As far as JJ…you pretty much have seen it…he won’t get better, won’t talk more…won’t grow emotions…but perhaps a different coach may change things. The Hawks have to find a way to beat Orlando, and that’s not negotiable. Miami is going to be tougher for them too. It’s gonna be interesting….

MannyT

July 7th, 2010
4:45 pm

Good article MB.

The one thing I would add is the necessity for the ownership to be willing to pay Joe to start to rebuild their reputations. Free agency in the NBA is a very subjective thing where perception is critical. Many NBA players are willing to buy a home here, but almost none have come here in the 21st century as free agents.

If your ownership rep is bad, it is almost impossible to get better players to come to the Hawks. Once you get beyond the few teams with big cap space, the regular challenge is to get a decent free agent to take the same mid level exception money that every team has available. Hopefully this is another step in the marketing rehabilitation of the ASG that will give them a better chance to get good free agents.

Brian

July 7th, 2010
4:46 pm

Joe outside of his 10 minutes of fame in game 4 against Boston a few years ago has played downright poorly in the playoffs. He stood there and shot blanks while his team lost a series by an average of 25 points per game. And you hand him 120 million dollars for that? To shoot 27% and average 12PPG against Orlando. A big reward for that?

Winning 53 regular season games don’t mean crap. I mean, go ask Cleveland how they felt about their season after Orlando beat them. You think they cared that they won 61 regular season games? Not likely? And they didn’t suffer the worst beating in NBA playoff history like the Hawks did.

They should have sign and traded him. Even his agent mentioned that was an option… But they decide to keep him. And the thing is that JJ might actually have a no trade clause now. It’s rumored to be in the deal he is going to sign tomorrow. If that’s true, they’re STUCK with him. They’re stuck with a borderline all star taking up 40% of their cap space. 40%.

What a bunch of screw ups.

Damn. Were not even talking about a 25PPG scorer. Joe is barely a 21 PPG scorer despite having the ball in his hands so much. In a well designed offense where he cannot dominate the ball so much he is a 18PPG scorer because he is too big of a wimp to take contact and get to the FT line.

He goes to the foul line THREE times a game.

WOW! Everyone should be impressed by that.

jarvis

July 7th, 2010
4:46 pm

Kelly Dwyer also makes a good point in the article today. The Heat have TWO players under contract.

The get Wade back and add Bosh, but still don’t have enough players to field a team. They are going to have some serious depth problems.

jarvis

July 7th, 2010
4:47 pm

Brian I hope Miami does suck, but we’ve now seen many “bought” championships.

cdog

July 7th, 2010
4:54 pm

SINCE THEY OVERPAID JOE JOHNSON, NOW THEY NEED TO BRING SHAQ AND ANOTHER FREE AGENT SIGNEE ABOARD.THEY NEED ANOTHER POINT GUARD OR SMALL FORWARD.HOPEFULLY LARRY DREW WILL UPGRADE THE TEAM DEFENSE.WITH BOSH SIGNING WITH MIAMI, THE HEAT MAY HAVE ON PAPER, VAULTED AHEAD OF THE HAWKS.RICK SUND CAN’T MESS AROUND WITH CELL PHONES STUCK IN HIS EAR AND DO NOTHING THIS OFF SEASON AS HE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST.HE NEEDS TO START WORKING ON MAKING THE HAWKS BETTER NOW.JUST LIKE MIKE WOODSON, THIS OFF SEASON IS HIS MAKE OR BREAK YEAR OR HE WON’T BE BACK AFTER THIS UPCOMING SEASON

Crippled Hawks

July 7th, 2010
4:55 pm

keep this in mind about the heat… sure they have 2 great players… but without a supporting cast, that doesnt matter. would the lakers have won back to back titles if they didn’t have a great supporting cast to fit their stars… Bynum there to let Pau play the PF position. Odom there to add a great wing and primary ball handler when kobe’s out of the game… the heat, as long as they dont get james, will have $14M to fill out their roster (if they can pull off a sign and trade and get rid of beasley’s contract)… they can make some decent pickups with the MLE and bi-annual exception…but $14M to spread across 7-9 roster spots is tough to fill out effectively… heat aren’t going to win a title immediately with just wade and bosh (wade + bosh isnt as efficient and effective as kobe + pau)

Blue Fox

July 7th, 2010
4:55 pm

I agree, Mark, Jon “Kontract’s” deal was by far the worst Hawk’s blunder in history.

jarvis

July 7th, 2010
4:58 pm

The hiring of Billy Knight was quite a blunder.

Moonlight Mile

July 7th, 2010
4:59 pm

The NBA is a player’s league and noone without an absolute HOF superstar is winning the title. Detroit and maybe Boston (since KG is older) are the only exceptions in probably the last 30 years or more. So the Hawks could either put out a good product (at a premium) and compete or go back to irrelevancy and hope they don’t whiff again on half of it’s lottery picks.

I’ll take the JJ contract and hopefully a better version of the 2010 Hawks.

Taylor Hanson

July 7th, 2010
5:04 pm

Bring back Bob Weiss.

ricky smith

July 7th, 2010
5:19 pm

Koncak, you are the worst, pal!!!

Dejay

July 7th, 2010
5:23 pm

You know, it’s rare that I agree with Northcyde (and anyone who’s a member of Hawksquawk knows that all too well) but he’s dead-on, a bullseye on the mark. Everyone knows that the Hawks overpaid for JJ; there’s no denying that. But the $64,000 question of the week is who else were they going to bring in? Remember, under CBA rules, they would only have the MLE and LLE available to lure free agents and NOT JJ’s caphold, even if he skipped town. In other words, as Rick Pitino would say, Lebron wasn’t walking through that door, folks. Neither was Chris Bosh, Dwayne Wade, or Carlos Boozer.

That’s the whole gist of the story. They overpaid to keep JJ all the while still having a shot of making hay in the East with the right tweak (did anyone see the Jamal Crawford deal coming last year?). I’m not saying that it would’ve been a good shot, but at least they still have one. Without JJ? They would’ve been dead men walking before the Falcons broke training camp and WE ALL KNOW IT.

You may trust that Josh Smith will become the next all-everything player, but until he gets a jump shot and a post game to match that athleticism of his, I’ll wait.

You might bank on Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford being players one day but until they show the world they can be, I’ll wait.

You might wish/dream/pray/hope that Marvin Williams stop with the Derrick McKey-esque disappearing acts and make us forget about Billy Knight passing over CP3 and Deron to get him but until I see otherwise, I’LL WAIT.

I won’t even go there concerning Childress; experts around the league are still laughing at Billy Knight for passing over Andre Iguodala, Al Jefferson, and Luol Deng for nothing more than a glue guy off the bench. No small wonder why he hasn’t been hired to run NBA personnel for a team after he left.

If JJ would’ve left, there is no guarantee whatsoever that this franchise would’ve had the wherewithal, much less the $$$ available to bring in a guy who is just as good, if not better (what, Carmelo’s coming here?). There simply isn’t. And everyone knows that the words ‘rebuild’ and ‘Hawks’ should never, EVER go together in a sentence. This franchise don’t have it in them to get that part right and this city doesn’t have the patience. I know I don’t….

TS

July 7th, 2010
5:56 pm

This is like the Derek Lowe contract. It’s bad, really bad, from day 1, but it’s year 3 and 4 (and for the Hawks, year 5) when the contract turns into an absolute nightmare. I don’t know why people assume that a contract like this can be moved in year 3 if the Hawks aren’t contenders.

Paddy

July 7th, 2010
5:59 pm

Well that about ends the search for minority investment money!

Veteran Fan

July 7th, 2010
6:08 pm

“Crippled Hawks” is right! The sign and trades are still available as is David Lee of the Knicks. Varajao or Lee would solve our Center issue finally and Deng would replace JJ in a heartbeat and all three players work hard and play above the rim which JJ does not. My preference would be to trade Josh and Marvin for Carmelo and to go after Felton to run the team and include Bibby to the Bobcats in another sign and trade. Also resign Childress and you have one heck of a team that could run, shoot and defend with anyone. Please also get rid of the Highlight Factory. That is embarassing all by itself. The fans will show up to see a team that works hard and gets up and down the floor, not walk it up the floor and stand around! Lebron and the other “stars” can only be at one end of the floor at a time!

nique

July 7th, 2010
6:13 pm

Not sure what re-signing Joe at the max says about their motivation to hire LD as coach. I originally thought the move was to save money, but clearly they are willing to spend. Do they really think LD is a better coach than Avery Johnson or the other bigger names that were available? Can’t imagine so.

Justin

July 7th, 2010
6:33 pm

If Drew wanted Joe to be an queal, why do they pay him so much money?? HES A GOOD PLAYER, NOT A MAX PLAYER.

kelvin davis

July 7th, 2010
6:34 pm

I think we are better than the Heat still.. I would take our first 5 over their first 5

Billy

July 7th, 2010
6:36 pm

Just another very costly mistake made by your ATLANTA HAWKS…………………………….

northcyde

July 7th, 2010
6:49 pm

Miami will have very little problem attracting veteran players to go to South Beach to play with Wade and Bosh. If they don’t get Lebron, they’ll keep Beasley ( or trade him for value )

Starting lineup:

PG – Chalmers
G – Wade
F – Beasley
PF – ???
C – Bosh ( for now )

Draft picks:

C – Dexter Pittman ( 6-11 . . 300 lbs . . good scoring big man )

PF – Jarvis Varnado ( 6-9 . . 210 . . NCAA’s all time leading shot blocker )

F – Latavious Williams ( 6-8 . . 210 . . super athletic forward )

SF – De’Sean Butler ( 6-7 . . 225 . . slasher SF . . tore his ACL in the Final 4 . . was a projected 1st round pick before the injury )

So that’s 7 players in the mix right now, with Butler being #8, and maybe being the best out of the draft class, if he can recover fully from his injury. Varnado is the guy I wanted the Hawks to take, when they obtained that #31 pick. If his defensive abilities cross over to the NBA, watch out for him.

There are way too many veteran players out there that could play with Wade and Bosh that could help that team.

They still have enough room to add a PG like Raymond Felton

They can still re-sign one of their old horses in Udonis Haslem

They can still add a journeyman guard like a Flip Murray

Kelly Dwyer is an idiot. A lot of these sportswriters just write. They don’t even try to think things out. All they see is what they see on the surface, and just type away.

Miami may not be championship caliber next year, but they will be a damn good team that we’ll have to deal with.

LOL . . people forget that they beat us 3 times last year, with only Wade on the squad.

Having said all of that . . because we’re coming back at full strength, I wouldn’t jump Miami ahead of us . . not quite yet. Let’s see what Mr. Teague can do at the point, and let’s see if we can add a quality big to the roster.

htwo0rider

July 7th, 2010
7:29 pm

They did not have to pay JJ all that dough. He’s a nice, but not a marquee player, which sums up the hawks…They have no one on the roster who can take over a game. Until that happens, no nba championships in the Atl.

Pi$$onaDawg

July 7th, 2010
7:34 pm

I went to buy a JJ Jersey and they wanted $739.00 for it. I saw a Vick #7 Falcon’s jersey for $1.75 & an Eagles #7 for $3.25. I figured if I was going to wipe my butt with something I would go with the Value for the dollar and I got both of the Vick Jerseys.

oldmikey

July 7th, 2010
7:34 pm

Time will tell. Think Larry Drew will make Joe smarter?

KevinM

July 7th, 2010
7:58 pm

JJ got money for basically not improving an iota the past few years. He has proven we can’t go forward with him as the #1. Now, how do we go about getting a #1 in here?
Not many choices either…
- Quit asking for Carmelo…no reason to come here
- LeBron isn’t even being discussed other than can we hold him below 30 when we play him.

Me, I go for it this year now that the East will be realigned. We still have a chance to improve this team this offseason. Perhaps Monte Ellis makes us better immediately if we could get a big man in here.

E43

July 7th, 2010
8:11 pm

I agree with you Mark. I just think that atlanta needs to let things run their course. it sounds like a bad contract as of 3 years from now but we don’t even know if Joe will be a hawks as of February next year. we don’t know if Marvin will go through a path of enlightenment like josh smith did last summer. maybe our bench needs Bibby to help with ball movement. current hawks will retire as of 6 years.Who knows what will happen? what we do know is that joe johnson is the closest to a top 5 SG we will ever get coz truth is that if you want a superstar, the best thing to do is to draft one. this years free agency was all about wade and lebron when at the end of the day. neither one of them will even change teams.

PaulieOldSchool

July 7th, 2010
8:21 pm

There’s one reason JJ signed or, rather, 119 million reasons. That’s it. Not cause he wants to be here, not ’cause he wants to win a ring here. No matter his point totals. he’s less effective every year and will be a dead-freaking loss in about 3 years. Not a leader, not a superstar, not a winner. If the Hawks sign Shaq, I will curse the day that the franchise set up operations in this burg and will petition that they renovate the Arena to resemble a circus tent.

John

July 7th, 2010
8:46 pm

Can’t be knowing how the money compared, but there are plenty of bad Hawks contracts besides the worthy ones you’ve already mentioned.

As a long-suffering fan I can tell you the Atlanta men’s pro basketball team has dressed out more stiffs than Patterson’s Funeral Home.

How about:
Marvin Williams – and we coulda had Chris Paul – hell, Chris Evert would be an improvement
Adam Keefe – even Utah cut this white boy loose
Rumeal Robinson – uncoachable
John Brown – When your nickname is “Fundamentally Sound” a gate attraction you ain’t
Bill Willloughby – “Willow” shoulda taken the scholarship to Kentucky instead of jumping from high school to the pros
Sheldon Williams – Dukies always suck as pros. At least the ones who wear Hawks jerseys do
Chris Washburn – whatta waste of space – the guy was an imbecile, literally
Isaiah Rider – a bad citizen even by UNLV standards (that’s an oxymoron if ever there was one)
Tim McCormick – freaking Pete Babcock traded Kenny Williams to Houston for a gimp like McCormick.

Dave

July 7th, 2010
9:32 pm

Re. your last paragraph: OK, it’s the fourth worst contract in Hawks history. They’d be better off tanking for a couple of seasons than tying themselves to a good, nowhere near great, now completely overpaid, player for the foreseeable future. Prediction – they end up with fewer wins than they had this year and don’t make it past the first round, if that, in the playoffs.

Pi$$onaDawg

July 7th, 2010
9:52 pm

Mark Bradley is there any truth to the rumor that 1-800-GOT-JUNK wants to buy the naming rights to Phillips Areana?

Hawker P)

July 7th, 2010
9:56 pm

jj contract: one of the 3 worst in sports history! paying $120 million for a stiff who can’t even score on isos? Amazing, but typical of the loserville morons who run atlanta teams.

JQP

July 7th, 2010
10:05 pm

Absolutely no reason to think Joe won’t be just as good as Paul Pierce at age 32-33. Joe was not the reason Dwight Howard shot 85% in the Orlando Series. No Joe would equal no playoffs, no shot for at least the next two years. You get in the playoffs with a top 4 seed, you have a chance.
He doesn’t flap his yap and demand press as much as Lebron, Wade, Pierce etc. but his skill set is awesome. Great contract decision.

MitchC

July 7th, 2010
10:12 pm

Mark, you are right on both counts. The way I see it is this. Five years ago, this team was the joke of basketball, losers of 69 games. Now, they are a very good team in the Eastern Conference. Depending on whether Lebron leaves or stays, number three, or four, behind Orlando, Boston, and maybe, the Cavs, or whoever Lebron ends up with, not necessarially in that order.

The owners didnt want to take a step back, so they paid more to win now, and risked some money for later. My bet is: Johnson remains productive.

Bottom line, barring injury, this move keeps the Hawks at a level where the mid to late 80s and late 90s Hawks were, a 50 plus win team, that will compete deep into the Eastern Conference each year.

harry the hawk

July 7th, 2010
10:37 pm

The problem with JJ’s money is three-fold, in my opinion:

a) giving him max money and knowing you’re not getting good enough to get to the promised land (since, going in, it hamstrings you from signing other much-needed pieces….while your comp gets decidedly better) is, arguably, bad business

b) giving him max money and knowing he isn’t the type of personality or player who can REALLY be depended on as a source to attract other elite players is bad business (the FA process made it clear elite players view JJ as THEIR sidekick…..and not the other way around) and

c) JJ’s a good player— but not the type of superstar personality—read, max contract guy– who can actually put more fanny’s in the seats….unless the team can crank it up two notches, this has to be looked at as a bad business move.

Given all of the above, how do the Hawks propose to make a return on their max investment?

To the last point, even if they have as good a year next year (Mia, Bos, Orl…whew), with the same nucleus, how many more seats will they fill than this year?

Why not take the short-term hit and build for the future with a real plan, rather than looking at the 4th year of JJ’s deal as a potential out if it doesn’t work?

Appears the Hawks approached this with the Knicks mentality……panic first, figure out the important stuff on the fly. This sums up why they’ll never be a winning franchise, in my opinion.

Raybud

July 7th, 2010
10:42 pm

I am currently listening how everyone down Larry Drew. Does anyone know the name of the bulls assistant that got hired in the 80’s after Doug Collins was fired? Let me give you a clue….he has won 11 championship rings since. I know that some may say that this was lucky, but if the Bulls brass didn’t give him a chance, we may not be talking about this today.

cdog

July 7th, 2010
11:20 pm

good points northcyde, but unless we address the problems in the middle, i see miami being ahead of us.we don’t need to hesistate, if shaq can be had, we need to get him.he’s not going to run the floor but he will get the rebound and start the fast break.also, remember last year, the games we use to be assured to lose were the games where we would get into a half court game.we were so small, so usually we ended up relying on jump shots.when we went up against a good defensive team we usually stunk up the joint and lost because we had no inside game on neither end of the court.with shaq, we will be able to control the middle on either end plus it will step up josh smith and hortford games also on either end.

H8ters Suck....

July 7th, 2010
11:30 pm

man, you guys are terrible, I bet all you JJ H8ters and Mini-Gm’s still buy gas from BP don’t you?? Idiots….. no I’m not a season ticket holder but damn, at least the Hawks are trying. Since yall H8ters suck so much, go suck some of that oil out the Gulf!!

H8ters Suck....

July 7th, 2010
11:34 pm

all I’ve been reading is, Hawks should have done a sign and trade or they could have gone out and gotten Wade or Bosh…..do you know how stupid you sound?? Yeah we coudl have done a sing and trade, but who are you going to sign and trade with?? This isn’t NBA Live or Fantasy Basketball where you can just make up Fantasy trades, moreso you’d be foolish to trade Joe for anything less than a player of need. Secondly, the Hawks were never in the running for Wade or Bosh or Lebron for that matter……

KevinM

July 8th, 2010
12:23 am

Raybud, nothing against LD, but truly, should you really throw out the Phil Jackson comparison? Jackson had previously been a head coach before he took over in Chicago…..big difference IMO.
LD never played on a championship team or has never led a team……huge difference.
Time will tell, but that coaching search was about as laughable as it comes. Was LD inserted to make sure JJ came back? Seems that way, but we will see if there is a game plan that doesn’t have iso-Joe in its final plot.
I will let LD prove himself, but it truly is nothing the ASG and Sund talked about when they said they needed a fresh voice. Again, not much done so far this offseason to get your ticket-holders excited about. I’m just glad practice the preseason doesn’t start next week.

Drew

July 8th, 2010
12:29 am

I see Bradley’s point. We can easily say we would take the hit and get less wins in the short term if it meant better long term effects but ultimately sports are about, “what are you doing for me now”. Also many people who like JJ are pissed (me included) because he was disrespectful to the fans in the playoff’s; he needs to try to patch relations with the fan base IMO. Also if ATL had gotten Boston in the 2nd round we would have possibly made it to the finals. We were HORRIBLE against Orlando this year, not great but better against Cleveland, dominated Boston and some other elite teams. Then again we were bad against the subpar Knicks. Orlando was simply not a good match up for ATL.

Halsey

July 8th, 2010
4:49 am

Good article. I just wish the Hawks didn’t have to pay JJ nearly 20 mill per year. Why not 6 years at a few less million per year? Why not 5 years? It just seems like the NBA is built to force inflated contracts on many teams.

BUBBA

July 8th, 2010
6:32 am

overpaid? NO S**T

Ghost of Lloyd Bentsen

July 8th, 2010
6:44 am

I know Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson is my friend. Larry Drew is no Phil Jackson.

Curious George

July 8th, 2010
7:52 am

Is there a morals clause in Joe Johnson’s contract which gives the Hawks an out of this ridiculous salary in case JJ is busted for DUI with Courtney Fuhrmann’s undergarments in his lap and her drunkenly stumbling out his car to his defense?

JoD

July 8th, 2010
7:58 am

If they are willing to pay it to him, then by definition…he’s not overpaid..enough said.

TommyP

July 8th, 2010
8:09 am

Good article, Mark, and good job yesterday on Knoxville radio.

The problem with the naysayers in all of this is they believe we could’ve replaced Joe with another big time talent. The cap rules don’t work like that. I believe it was Michael Cunningham that broke down the cap weeks ago and showed the Hawks wouldn’t have but around $8 or $9 million to spend on a FA. In other words, there wasn’t a talent equal to Joe out there that we could’ve signed.

Force-feed Teague at the point and entertain offers for Josh Smith. Notice I didn’t say trade him but see what the market is for him. I would imagine the loser in all of this FA merry-go-round on ESPN would overpay for Smith in a sign and trade.

TommyP

July 8th, 2010
8:11 am

In a trade, not sign and trade.

juice sourcer

July 8th, 2010
8:32 am

Crazy deal…will never, ever get past the 1st round with Johnson. Let him go. Save the money and do something else with it to create a better fan experience…like lower prices and better and cheaper food. The Hawks may win less but we can still see the best players in the world come in and Altanta will never win it all with Johnson so who cares.

Loser

July 8th, 2010
9:01 am

There’s a good reason that everyone around the country calls atlanta loserville—more dumb decisions by clueless morons owning these sports teams. It never changes.

cdog

July 8th, 2010
9:04 am

everyone is yelling that the hawks is not going to beat miami, orlando, chicago and milwaukee.JARVIS,you are wrong about hiring billy knight being a blunder..knight put the current pieces together that transform the team into a winner.AM I NOT SHOCKED BUT EVERYONE HAS A SOLUTION WHY THE HAWKS CAN’T GET PAST THESE TEAMS MENTIONED.WELL, WHEN MIKE WOODSON WAS HERE, YOU BLAMED HIM FOR THE LOST TO THE MAJIC.BUT THE REAL MAIN PROBLEM WE HAVE IS RICK SUND.NO ONE EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT MENTIONED HIM. WHY AM I NOT SHOCKED?BECAUSE THATS THE WAY OF THE WORLD.SUND HASN’T ATTEMPTED TO BETTER THE FRANCHISE.WITH THE WAY HE DEALS,THINK ABOUT IF ROLES WERE REVERSED AND SUND WOULD HAVE BEEN HIRED IN THE PLACE OF KNIGHT BACK THEN.PICTURE WHERE THE HAWKS WOULD BE NOW WITH HIM AS GM.THE TEAM WOULD HAVE NEVER BECAME A PLAYOFF CONTENDER.HE WOULD HAVE LONG BEEN FIRED BY NOW.THE ONLY MOVE YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN FROM HIM WAS A CELL PHONE STUCK IN HIS EAR AND NO ACTION.NO ONE EXCEPT A FEW ONLY MENTIONED SUND AS THE PROBLEM.BUT EVERYONE WAS AGAINST WOODSON WHEN THE MAIN PROBLEM WAS AND IS NOW, RICK SUND

KB

July 8th, 2010
9:40 am

I am with Crippled Hawks. The Hawks mgt and M. Bradley are foolish. Bill Parcells said long time ago “You are who you are.” JJ is a no. #2 option. The first contract he sign was too much. He has proven to be a good player, but not one to build a team around.

Because the Hawks mgt waited too late to get into free agency, they miss out on some options at a cheap rate (J. Salmos in Milauwkee, R. Hamilton in Detroit, K. Korver in Utah, or R. Jefferson in San Antonio). Let’s face it. JJ is not the guy you give the ball to when the game is on the line. I would give it to Horford. If you got Horford the money, I could see that. But JJ, hell to no….

Another option would be through the draft and pick up D. Butler out of West Virginia. Give him time to get his knee right and let him roll. He could have worked. And while we are on the draft, the Hawks could have made a deal and get the D. Pittman out of Texas to put center. Put him in gym to get his cardio on point and there you go. A half way decent center to put with Horford. He would be the muscle for Horford and keep the dogs off him.

One last point, why do people harp on and saying we need a put point gaurd? Why did get draft Teague out of Wake Forest last year? You don’t play him so he can learn on the job (Which is the one true way to learn how to run your club anyway.) You got rid of the A. Law for no good reason which in turn wasted a draft pick anyway. If R.Rondo can be groomed with the Celtics by playing or T. Parker with the Spurs by playing, why can’t Hawks do the same?

Jim

July 8th, 2010
9:44 am

I say all the fans get together opening night and send a loud chorus of boos down the first game he is announced and then move on. Get it out of your system and move forward. But he must be booed and booed loudly for that comment about the fans last year, after shooting bricks all night.

He will not care, but the organization will take note and that is the real target.

KB

July 8th, 2010
9:55 am

One correction: I would talk to Portland and see if I can get J. Prizbilla or G. Odom for M. Williams and throw in M. Bibby.

Jim

July 8th, 2010
9:58 am

@ Loser, like your comment, you absolutely hit the nail on the head.

Chris D'

July 8th, 2010
10:11 am

“One thing more: This might well be a bad contract, but it’s not the worst in NBA history. It’s not even the worst in Hawks’ history. Alan Henderson’s was worse. Speedy Claxton’s was worse. Jon Koncak’s was worse.”

What is this based on? After Joe Johnson committed to stay with the Hawks for a Max deal the Hawks have not lost or won a single game. They have not made the playoffs or missed the playoffs since this deal was announced. They have committed themselves to having the same team for the foreseeable future with about 1/3 of the payroll tied to one player.

Annoyed Hawks fan

July 8th, 2010
10:42 am

JJ IS NOT WORTH $120 million dollars. I did not forget his weak performance and lack of leadership. Hawks should have said holler!

Hawks should have spent that kind of $ on a Carmelo Anthony or try to get CP3 in a trade.

Disgusted with the Hawks’ owners and management – and i have been a fan since the human highlight was on the team.

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July 9th, 2010
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Scarface

July 9th, 2010
12:50 pm

Bring Shaq !!!!!

GM

July 9th, 2010
8:03 pm

Great article! I couldn’t agree more with the points you made.

Paddy

July 10th, 2010
8:39 am

Drew has an offense that nobody has ever seen????? Really? Call the comedy channel. You might see the Hawks have their own show. Say that again. None of the all-time great coaches have ever thought this offense would work but Drew is now smarter than the room. This won’t be fun, it will be ugly.

Baker

July 10th, 2010
2:30 pm

Here’s what I don’t get, what other NBA team would have paid Joe Johnoson $20 MILL a year? The Knicks? Nets? I think we could have still kept him for less money. You don’t think we could have used that money to bring in a more effective superstar?

Also, I just have to laugh when you mentioned Alan Henderson, that was really bad. You’re right, that was probably the worst.

atlien85

July 13th, 2010
9:29 am

Let me start by saying that regardless of the fact that we TOTALLY overpaid for Joe Johnson, I am still a huge Hawk supporter. That being said, it makes absolutely no sense to me that we would commit that much money to someone who is not even willing to publicly announce that he is the bonified leader of the team. Joe Johnson is a great player, but as far as his leadership skills go, I’m not convinced. If you are making the kind of money Joe will be making in the years to come I expect a few things: 1) YOU SHOULD BE THE VOCAL LEADER. PERIOD! All this silent leader stuff is total BS. Nearly every other team in playoff history had a vocal leader, especially championship contenders (which is what he claims he wants to be). The vocal leader holds his teammates AND himself accountable for lackluster performance. In my estimation, Joe did neither, which tells me he is not an effective leader. 2) TAKE COMMAND OF THE GAME! When things aren’t going well for a team, great players take it upon themselves to take over the game. Does this mean shoot everytime you touch the ball? No. It means taking an active role on both sides of the ball to make sure a great play is made. I’ve seen Joe fold too many times and defer to other players when the pressure is on. Excuse me Joe, but that is not what we’re overpaying you to do. In other words, we need him to be a superstar when the pressure is on too. I’ve only seen him do it once, and that was two years ago in the Boston series. 3)Lastly, I’m not confident in the Atlanta Hawk’s front office. Obviously they are privy to information I am not and have inside knowledge regarding players and coaches. However, it amazes me how we had such a poor performance in the first two rounds of the playoffs this year and we essentially commit to bring back the SAME team we had last year. FAIL! How the hell are we supposed to compete in the east when we have done nothing to improve our team? We weren’t able to compete last year so why would the same team with the same coach (Larry Drew was sitting right next to Woody last year cosigning that bland offense) be able to compete now. Our division just became considerably more competitive boys and girls. Miami and Orlando are better than us right now. Charlotte is making noise as well and won’t make the same mistakes we’re making. I’m not a gloom and doom type of person, but I am a realist. Being a realist means stating the obvious. Obviously, our best shot at going deep in the playoffs is when we have one of the top four spots. Miami, Boston, and Orlando have the top three on lock. Chicago and Charlotte are up and coming teams and we need to make sure that we don’t allow them to gain any ground on us. And let’s not forget that we went seven games with the Bucks people! The Bucks I say!
I’m confident that we will make the playoffs, BUT if we have to see any of those top teams in the first round, it’s pretty much a wrap. First order of business should have been securing a legitimate center, but that’s a rant for another day.
RANT OFFICIALLY OVER… for now anyway.

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The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it

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The Hawks overpaid for Joe Johnson, but they had to do it

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