SI.com: The Knicks want Joe, but not as their main man
The Hawks will offer $20 million per season, plus a nifty hat. (AJC photo by Louis Favorite)
July is nearly here, which means … well, you know what. According to Ian Thomsen of SI.com, it means the New York Knicks will seek to construct an NBA champion by signing half the big name free agents, Joe Johnson among them. But not, we must point out, chief among them.
The Knicks, Thomsen writes, are looking to land Johnson and either Chris Bosh or Amar’e Stoudemire and also LeBron James. And here we pause to ponder: Would Joe, accustomed to taking nearly every big shot, consent to becoming a third option? Would he take significantly less money — Thomsen says New York plans to offer the three big names a base salary of $11.5; Johnson made $14 million as a Hawk last season — to become a ride-along?
I can’t envision it. For all the discussion about free agent “summits” and package deals, I still believe the driving forces for these men are money and ego, not necessarily in that order. And if you’re good enough to be offered a maximum contract — the Hawks can throw $20 million per season at Johnson — would you really take substantially less to shoot less?
Again, I can’t see it. But we should know something soon enough. The Knicks, reports Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News, are poised to meet with Johnson in Los Angeles after free agency commences at midnight tonight — before they officially visit LeBron.
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142 comments Add your comment
balismith
June 30th, 2010
2:06 pm
hope the hawks view the joe situaation the same as the knicks…
Boheezy
June 30th, 2010
2:14 pm
Here’s my take. As much as Joe sucked it most nights in the playoffs, regular season he was as good as anybody else in the league. In the playoffs, you have to make adjustments and Woody didnt make the adjustments. ISO don’t work in the playoffs. Think back to the Bulls before Phil came. Joe’s limits were do to Mike Woodson’s horrible coaching. Now if we get this ball movement that Coach Drew is saying we can have a different result. I hate what Joe said but hell be honest how many nights was the highlight factory sold out? Keep Joe unless we can make a deal involving him to get a CP3 or LeBron or Kobe which I seriously doubt. Smoove is my boy but hell we may need to trade him. The big thing everyone keeps missing is the issue of locker room problems Al eluded to, which most times is from Smoove whining and not doing his job. We cant afford to wait on him to grow up. Trade him fast for a CP3 if available or a decent 7 ft center not someone 6′11. Also Sund needs to bring back Chills. Say what you want but Chills hustled and balled his a$$ off everynight. Put Marvin on the bench and let Chills start at the 3. We have a good squad that with the proper attitudes and a legit 5 can make the Eastern Conference Finals.
Chip Shot
June 30th, 2010
2:21 pm
alright heres some wheeling and dealing for ya.
S&T Joe to NY for David Lee. then 3 team trade Josh Smith Mo Evans+1st Rounder to NO, Chris Paul to Atlanta, Emeka Okafor to Phoenix for Jason Richardson
Chip Shot
June 30th, 2010
2:21 pm
also sign Haywood in FA and Salmons
John
June 30th, 2010
2:33 pm
We need Joe Johnson back. Point Blank. With Drew, we could be even better next season. Without Joe, we are the 7-8th seed no matter what. We will not bring in anyone equivalent to him. There are no better fits.
Jesse
June 30th, 2010
2:39 pm
Do we really want to be paying him MAX money when he’s 34?
glenn
June 30th, 2010
2:40 pm
Knicks have the right idea . Joe’s value is that of a second option . He’s a Pippen not a Jordan. We shouldn’t offer him a max contract . We should do a S&T for either David Lee or Rodrigue Beaubois . Also give us some dough to bring in someone else .
dreamers
June 30th, 2010
2:52 pm
I believe joe is gone by-by. and josh childress is not the answer. Salmons torched us last year with chicago and with the bucks(until the hawks got serious defensive pressure on him)He was about as effective as jj. Like others have said, i will hate to see him go, but, i don’t think he is worth max money for six years. Man, we need a solid big man in the center position. If we max sign joe, we are toast to sign much of anything else. Zaza is just ok, i appreciate his effort,but my gosh, please develop a no dribble move to the hoop, strong! too many turnovers in the paint from dribbling. Anyway, I don’t think joe leaving will be disaster, but we will miss his ability to score
HawksFutureGM
June 30th, 2010
3:07 pm
Ok, I have read so many comments on Joe and what we need to do and I think with all the cap restraints and luxury taxes that we are about to pay, we can fix this team with a lil work. Its obvious that Joe doesnt want to play here, so I think we work a sign and trade with Dallas for Caron Butler adn Brendan Haywood. Also, work a trade with Denver that would include Josh Smith, Mike Bibby, and Marvin Williams for Carmelo Anthony and Nene Hilario. It would give us scoring, depth, and most importantly, financial freedom. We would place a winner on the floor and have the money to make us a championship contender. ASG is all about money. They dont care to bring a title to Atlanta…all they want to do is pay the bills and not go broke. Think about a lineup that would include C- Nene; PF- Horford; SF- Anthony; SG- Butler; PG- Teague. Your bench would still need to be filled out, but you free up an extra $5-$8 mil to do that with. I just want an owner on the Hawks that desires to win as badly, if not more so, as they desire to make money.
KevinM
June 30th, 2010
3:10 pm
Ok, stay with me folks….look at some of Joe’s numbers from last year:
NBA.com has Joe ranked on the left…actual is on the right
• Ranks #10 in the NBA in Points Per Game (21.3) – 11th – actual
• Ranks #17 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (4.9) – 27th actual
• Ranks #34 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage (0.818) – 45th – actual
• Ranks #29 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.08) – 46th – actual
• Ranks #22 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (38) 10th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played (2886) 19th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (635) – 11th- actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (1386) – 9th actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made (129) – 25th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts (350) – 26th – note : Crawford was 6th and had a higher percentage of makes
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (369) – 30th actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points (1619) – 13th actual
• Ranks #12 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (2.54) – 22nd – actual
• Ranks #31 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (0.57) – 38th – actual
• Ranks #10 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (10.56)
• Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes (23.05)
• Ranks #22 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (6.1) – 47th – actual
• Ranks #14 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes (26.9) – 20th – actual
• Ranks #10 in the NBA in Points Per Game (21.3) – 11th – actual
• Ranks #17 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (4.9) – 27th actual
• Ranks #34 in the NBA in Free-Throw Percentage (0.818) – 45th – actual
• Ranks #29 in the NBA in Steals Per Game (1.08) – 46th – actual
• Ranks #22 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (38) 10th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Minutes Played (2886) 19th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goals Made (635) – 11th- actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Field Goal Attempts (1386) – 9th actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goals Made (129) – 25th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts (350) – 26th – note : Crawford was 6th and had a higher percentage of makes
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (369) – 30th actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Points (1619) – 13th actual
• Ranks #12 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (2.54) – 22nd – actual
• Ranks #31 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover (0.57) – 38th – actual
• Ranks #10 in the NBA in Field Goals Per 48 Minutes (10.56)
• Ranks #8 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes (23.05)
• Ranks #22 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (6.1) – 47th – actual
• Ranks #14 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes (26.9) – 20th – actual
• Ranks #1 in the NBA in Total Efficiency Points (1483)
• Ranks #22 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking (19.51)
I wonder if the Knicks have seen these numbers? He wouldn’t be my top salary for my team, especially heading into his 10th season. His better days are behind him IMO. Yes, he’s 29, but he will be lucky to be productive in 5-6 years.
JC
June 30th, 2010
3:14 pm
Nice try Knicks. We all know LeBron’s quest for world domination and billionaire playboy status, but is a salary cut, sub-par support staff, and fan base that will eat you alive if you don’t perform immediately worth it for the promise of future sponsorships to make up for the lost wages and increased popularity?
This is all factored in with Chicago, who has enough cap room to pay him and another superstar the max, a far better support staff, far more basketball history than NY and is still the third biggest media market in the US. Which one would you choose?
Will
June 30th, 2010
3:17 pm
How about a sign and trade JJ for Carmelo?
Pate
June 30th, 2010
3:23 pm
I don’t see Joe Johnson as the top guy for the Hawks either he’s not a superstar.
Simpdawg
June 30th, 2010
3:24 pm
The latest rumors are the Hawks plan to offer Joe Johnson the max. I don’t think that’s a good idea. I like Joe Johnson but he’s not a max player. I would like to see the Hawks bring back Childress and sign a big or a physical high energy guy.
Pate
June 30th, 2010
3:25 pm
Sign and Trade Joe Johnson to Denver for Carmelo Anthony.
hittman jamillion
June 30th, 2010
3:26 pm
i hear alot of talk
personnally the only good trade i’ve heard which is doable for both parties
is a jj and marvin for carmelo deal,
there is a reason why jamal or josh has not been traded
they are two of the best players we have
jamal al and actually josh are the real core of this team they are the ones who produce everynight
jj gets the blame usually because jj loses the game or just doesn’t show up at all
i say wait on jj noones offering him max money accept a desparete team
then it’s all about matching the offer to keep him instead of overpaying for his services
Sund is actually doing this the right way
hittman jamillion
June 30th, 2010
3:28 pm
hey how yall doingh why are’nt my comments published
hittman jamillion
June 30th, 2010
3:28 pm
hey
BUCKWEET(OTAY)
June 30th, 2010
3:30 pm
HEY LETS DO THIS SIGN AND TRADE DEAL WITH DALLAS.
hittman jamillion
June 30th, 2010
3:33 pm
future gm i would’nt take josh and marvin for nene and melo thats robbery
yall be praying
Simpdawg
June 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
Pate,
I wouldn’t trade Joe for Carmelo, because I think Joe has a better all around game than Carmelo and Joe plays better defense than Carmelo, although Carmelo is a better scorer.
Halsey
June 30th, 2010
3:34 pm
JJ is not a #1 guy who can lead a team to a championship. That’s why it would be foolish for any team to give him max money.
chc4
June 30th, 2010
3:35 pm
Joe Johnson is nowhere near a max contract type player. He’s been awful in the clutch the last 2 years. The Hawks ought to let him go unless he signs for $10-12m per year.
Simpdawg
June 30th, 2010
3:39 pm
Hittman Jamillion,
I hope you’re right about Sund, because all the reports I’ve read seems to point to the Hawks offering Joe Johnson the max.
Mr. Phil
June 30th, 2010
3:59 pm
Let me tell you why I want Joe gone but do not want an S&T.
The only way Joe gets the money he wants is with the Hawks or through sign and trade. Otherwise, the Knicks are looking at signing him for a full million and a half LESS than what he made last year (assuming they are going to try and sign a REAL max quality free agent or two).
I say this is how it should be.10 to 11 million per year (while still too much) is closer to J.J’s talent level than 18 to 19 mill. Johnson is not “our best pure shooter” (out his TS% ranks 34th compared to Jamal Crawford at 13) and he was not “as good as anybody during the regular season”(his efficiency rating is barely top ten among shooting guards and not even top 30 overall).
Isolations (technical word for BALL-HAWKING) were the only reason that Joe scored as much as he did. They are far lower than you would want your second option to be. If Joe doesn’t dominate the ball (i.e. plays with an actual elite player that won’t stand for it) he doesn’t produce anywhere near what he did last year -or the year before.
Whoever gets stuck with Joe is going to be disappointed rather quickly. He will put up rather pedestrian/slightly above average numbers for 1 to 2 years. After that, watch the Jalen Rose/ Michael Finley/ Steve Smith effect drag him to the bottom of the heap like so much rotten potatoes.
Bottom line folks, Mr. Johnson, Billy Knight, Mike Woodson, and ASG got one over on us all. I think it would only be fair that he end up with Knicks for less money, with less help than he had in Atlanta, and languish for the next few years before quietly exiting stage right.
JJ
June 30th, 2010
4:12 pm
ASG to JJ: JJ, what were the issues the Hawks had last season? Why did we have such a hard series against the Bucks and why didn’t we show up against Orlando?
JJ to ASG: Well, ASG, here were the problems………..*(Thinks ASG but doesn’t say it)(fill in the blank)
ASG to JJ: Do you think it’s possible to get to the finals here and possibly win a championship?
JJ to ASG: I do, if these problems are addressed.
ASG to JJ: What needs to be done in your opinion?
JJ to ASG: *(ASG needs to sell this team BUT he really says…) (Fill in the blank)
ASG to JJ: As you know, we are a financially strapped ownership. We would be further strapping ourselves down by giving you the max deal. We need to add the necessary pieces to get to the next level. Here is our plan, sign the best center available. We are targeting (Brendan Haywood). He brings an inside presence that we’ve been missing for years. We are also going to (fill in the blank). In order for us to get to this level, we can’t offer you the max but we will offer you this, which is still better than other suitors. By doing this, we can bring these missing pieces in. As you know, this would be the same as what Arenas did a few years ago. If this is not what you want, we want to see about a sign and trade to Dallas for Haywood and another player.
JJ to ASG: I will consider taking this contract if you make the moves necessary to win.
ASG to JJ: Now as you know some fans are still bitter at the remarks from the playoffs. Would you address this at the press conference?
JJ to ASG: They should know I said that out of pure frustration but I will do my best to address it.
ASG to JJ: You will still be the captain of this team. The team shows lack of unity at times and we need for you to set them straight. Show them your leadership on the court.
NO MAX DEAL.
IN TEAGUE WE WILL TRUST
REGARDLESS IF JJ LEAVES, GET YOUR JO. CRAWFORD JERSEY. HE WAS MY PICK AND HE IS THE HAWKS FUTURE.
LET’S GO HAWKS!!!
iCECOLD
June 30th, 2010
4:14 pm
Honestly. I don’t think nobody want Joe Johnson to leave. They Jus preparing their minds to still believe in this team if he do so. Their is hope either way if he stays or leave. A sign and trade or keep him. But needs to realize that if he stays and try to take the most amount of money. That’s less money to sign another piece to get better to contend for a championship. I know one thing. Somebody gotta go.
heartofdarkness
June 30th, 2010
4:16 pm
If player contracts are assets of their respective corporations, where is all the asset deflation I’ve been reading about in the business section?
iCECOLD
June 30th, 2010
4:19 pm
On the other hand it doesn’t make any sense for the hawks too pay somebody that much when they have a player ( jamal Crawford ) that can do the same thing that he do. And with a sign and trade we could get that true big men we always wanted and be straight.
But either way its fine wit me. Either way I’m still gonna be a big hawks fan.
Unless they get nothin and have the same team except without Joe.
Big Ray
June 30th, 2010
4:30 pm
Hawks don’t have to pursue a center to keep Joe here. They need only offer the max contract he wants. Then he’ll stay….if he wants to.
And if Joe leaves, it’s because HE WANTS TO. He had a legit shot at a championship in Phoenix, and left that place for a 13-win team. So anybody suggesting that he leaves to win a championship is full of Bull Doody. He might leave just to be in a different city that he likes more (when’s the last time you heard him say he LOVES Atlanta?) and play for a different team. But the fact remains that he got to be the man here, and he probably likes that more than anything else (besides money).
Guess what? If he stays, he’s STILL the man, because he will get the most shots. But thanks to Larry Drew, we won’t have to watch painful ball-pounding ISO JOE anymore.
Big Ray
June 30th, 2010
4:31 pm
There are only two guys who are concerned with getting another center on the squad. Larry Drew and Al Horford. That’s about it.
And we don’t have to have a starter, either. It can be a guy who comes in and plays 20+ mpg off the bench.
Eric B
June 30th, 2010
4:42 pm
Let Joe Go. Crawford will fill his position just fine as a starter. And then, go out and get a real star.
Bushwacker
June 30th, 2010
4:52 pm
Am I missing something with you guys who seem to really get off on being number 1?
Or is that it, is Bradley paying for a hooker for # 1?
Stat Man
June 30th, 2010
4:53 pm
Signin JJ to the Bird Max will be GREAT – for about 2-3 years. Then when he becomes “Bibby – Part 2″ in years 4, 5 & 6 (making $18 mil or whatever) we’ll be ready to join those standing at the podium during the playoffs seeing what lottery pick we get instead of playing in the post season!
BigCaliDawg
June 30th, 2010
7:43 pm
I feel badly for Josh, Al, and ZaZa. We have no backup bigs to speak of, yet we keep bringin’ sand to the beach in the back court and SF. What’s up?
We will never make it past Orlando with this squad. Not only did Jameer outrun us to the hole repeatedly, but Dwight was dunkin’ on us like nerf hoop.
WE NEED A BIG! Paying J.J. Max better be the first step to a sign n trade, but who’s gonna pay maximum cash for an also ran?
I hope to the man above that Joe is done with us.
feudfinder
June 30th, 2010
9:07 pm
I don’t think that Joe is leaving. He is not stupid.
Afan Forlife
June 30th, 2010
10:50 pm
DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Peahead
June 30th, 2010
10:53 pm
Please Mark don’t let it happen. Not if we ever expect the Hawks to be serious contenders for a title. With the Hawks, his 21 ppg average in the regular season is good, but certainly not “max contract” worthy. Add to the equation that he averages 18 ppg in the playoffs and the answer to the Hawks should be a resounding “NO!”
Vino
July 1st, 2010
1:39 am
The hawks Also said on draft night they will go BIG with the next pick that they traded with the nets it makes you wonder why would they tell (hint)us there plans in the draft with bigs on the board???? The same with offereing Joe the max so late in the process!!! I think the hawks are going to offer him max deal to a sign&tradel not to retain him!!!
Tweets that mention SI.com: The Knicks want Joe, but not as their main man | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
July 1st, 2010
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Daddy Long Long
July 1st, 2010
12:50 pm
If Joe signs that offer, HE should be lobbying for a side-kick! He now has the potential to hold most/all of the $$$’s this franchise has to offer. Now, LowCountry Dawg I would buy front row season tickets if we landed Carmelo via trade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark (Bradley) my words…Pun pntended LOL
Daddy Long Long
July 1st, 2010
1:18 pm
Jamal Crawford to me is the side-kick honestly. Need a Center. Sund go get Diesel. Shaq, holla at us big dog!!