SI.com: The Knicks want Joe, but not as their main man
The Hawks will offer $20 million per season, plus a nifty hat. (AJC photo by Louis Favorite)
July is nearly here, which means … well, you know what. According to Ian Thomsen of SI.com, it means the New York Knicks will seek to construct an NBA champion by signing half the big name free agents, Joe Johnson among them. But not, we must point out, chief among them.
The Knicks, Thomsen writes, are looking to land Johnson and either Chris Bosh or Amar’e Stoudemire and also LeBron James. And here we pause to ponder: Would Joe, accustomed to taking nearly every big shot, consent to becoming a third option? Would he take significantly less money — Thomsen says New York plans to offer the three big names a base salary of $11.5; Johnson made $14 million as a Hawk last season — to become a ride-along?
I can’t envision it. For all the discussion about free agent “summits” and package deals, I still believe the driving forces for these men are money and ego, not necessarily in that order. And if you’re good enough to be offered a maximum contract — the Hawks can throw $20 million per season at Johnson — would you really take substantially less to shoot less?
Again, I can’t see it. But we should know something soon enough. The Knicks, reports Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News, are poised to meet with Johnson in Los Angeles after free agency commences at midnight tonight — before they officially visit LeBron.
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142 comments Add your comment
BobWeiss
June 30th, 2010
11:12 am
I really think the market for Joe Johnson isn’t quite what he was hoping. Teams only talk about Joe Johnson as a pawn to attract one of the other big stars. I believe staying in Atlanta and being the main star is probably starting to look better and better.
reality
June 30th, 2010
11:12 am
Man I hope that Joe Johnson signs somewhere else. The hawks absolutely can’t afford to be saddled with his massive contract and under performance for another 6 years. It would be huge albatross that will be nothing but a onerous burden for years to come.
John
June 30th, 2010
11:12 am
@Ryan….lol lol Do you think Denver would do that? lol Not a chance!!! They are not trading Carmelo…they will sign him to a long term deal.
Veteran Fan
June 30th, 2010
11:16 am
Giving Joe all that money will hamstring this franchise and lead to a nasty divorce two years from now with us paying off most of the contract. Please do a sign and trade along with Bibby with the Knicks to get David Lee so we can solidify our front line! Then trade Josh Smith and Marvin to the Hornets for Chris Paul and resign Josh Childress. Pretty solid team at that point and who knows, maybe make a run at Chris Bosh or Salmons to replace JJ. He wants to be a Knick so let him GO!!!! It is silly to offer a max contract to a player who only shoots outside and plays below the rim when he goes inside!!! Bosh would love to come to a team where he could play with Paul and he doesn’t have to control the boards with Lee, Horford, Zaza, and Childress cleaning the glass. Teague could learn from Paul and both Crawfords supply outside firepower!
Jerry West
June 30th, 2010
11:16 am
To KevinM’s point, is Smith the one Horford was referring to in the quote about players not getting along in the playoffs? If so, then maybe it’s time to move him.
On the Joe front, I like him and all, but no on a max deal. Sign and trade him for some combo of players, picks and a trade exception, and move on.
Air Zaza
June 30th, 2010
11:19 am
Mark, with Josh Smith, Jamal Crawford who are some of the best trade pieces in the league, why hasn’t Atlanta been in the talks for trades?
Peachtree John
June 30th, 2010
11:19 am
Let’s forget Chills. He can’t help the Hawks. His resigning will only bring negative statements in these columns—justifiably so.
True to form will be that Joe signs elsewhere, Hawks don’t (can’t) replace his points, we still don’t get a big man, Hawks revert to mediocrity, and the fans are neglected once again.
Fire ownership and bring in some owners who have BIG BUCKS, are willing to hire great management, and get out of the way.
Steve
June 30th, 2010
11:22 am
NY paper also says Knicks scared about Amare’s knee, and the fact he would command more $$$ thank LeBron, Bosh, or Wade because of the size of his contract currently (17.2m). Man, with Pierce, Allen, Boozer also out there, this time could get pretty crazy.
HawkKingBibby
June 30th, 2010
11:23 am
MB Gearon loves Joe and Gearon for all intents and purposes is our GM so Joe will be offered the max. Its just a matter of will he take it or not. I cant see how he leaves 125 mill on the table.
TexDawg
June 30th, 2010
11:24 am
Guys: The mavericks are going to sign him right after they re-sign Dirk. It is a done deal with Cuban. Don’t know if you care, but that is the way it is looking.
Navigator
June 30th, 2010
11:26 am
If Joe resigns, he needs to understand he’s not a top 5 player in the NBA, and his focus is winning as a team. If he can’t accept that responsibility then send him packing to the highest bidder.
dap01
June 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Texdawg: If Dallas signs JJ, it will be with a sign and trade and the Mavericks have some valuable pieces that ATL could get in return.
jlewis
June 30th, 2010
11:33 am
Bradley:
It seems as though with the blog headlines you have written recently, there is an inflammatory tone to set the fans against JJ. Either way he gets paid and you win also, because next years blog will read “The Hawks should have signed JJ for whatever he wanted”. I’m sure people know, they are saying the same things in blogs about Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Gay, etc., there are only 2 players that sell tickets, Lebron and Kobe, AA Arena in Miami wasnt full every night.
Also, JJ wasnt the only one that had a bad playoffs, i.e. Lebron, Kobe, Pierce, only difference is Pierce and Kobe had help, JJ and Lebron, no help, gone second round.
TROTTINGHOME
June 30th, 2010
11:35 am
I’ve heard the guy from Milwaukee who opted out of his last year is on atlanta’s radar…if they don’t sign joe….please let joe go and find two scorers one for the front ,one for the back court…and we will still lose cause this offense won’t cut it in the NBA…but it will be cheaper and joe won’t have to front the load.
nobody
June 30th, 2010
11:40 am
Best Case Scenarios, All S&T
San Antonio- JJ and pieces for Tony Parker or Manu Ginobli with pieces
Houston- JJ and pieces for Kelvin Martin and Shane Battier
Dallas- JJ and pieces for Beabouis, Dampier, and Butler
Nuggets- JJ and pieces for Carmello- Have no vision of this happening.
Paddy
June 30th, 2010
11:41 am
The ASG want JJ back. The fans could care less since JJ has no regard for them. So the natural thing for the ASG to do is sign JJ back. In the ASG logic that makes perfect sense. We are so ashamed of how they do business. What is next; a ticket price increase. Yea, thats the ticket. Give us your best shot ASG, we know we will be dissapointed. There is a great track record with you guys. The Pink Panthers of ownership!
jon
June 30th, 2010
11:47 am
Mark, do we want to pay joe 20 mill when he’s 35?
Steve
June 30th, 2010
11:51 am
For all this talk of teams signing JJ and LeBron, or LeBron and Bosh etc., only 2 teams have cap space to sign 2 max FA’s: The Knicks and the Nets. The rest is just hopes to convince somebody to sign for less to form a “Dream Team”. Would LeBron and Joe bring NY a Champrionship, If LeBron, Shaq, and Jameson couldn’t? Is LeBron and Wade enough to overcome Kobe, Lamar, Pau, Artest and Bynum? Be fun to watch, but Miami better have some more pieces. Chicago can’t afford 2 max players, would ask one of them to take less.
I think Joe goes to ATL or Knicks. I think LeBron stays in Cleveland possibly – distrusts Chicago ownership. I think guys like Stoudemare, Peirce, Allen, Gay, and Boozer are gonna be filthy rich when this thing is done, because guys who miss out on Wade, Bosh, James etc. are gonna overpay for not max talent. And I don’t think JJ is a max player, but he’ll probably get max money (from us) because we have no other option really. Wad stays in Miami – Boozer probably goes there as well. Bosh – who knows?
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2010
11:54 am
Joe isn’t going to get more money anywhere else. That’s why I think he’ll stay.
F-105 Thunderchief
June 30th, 2010
11:54 am
The biggest hope the Hawks had for improvement was at the head coaching position. They blew that, most likely. I’d like Joe Johnson to be on the roster, but he is not a clutch player. I don’t think the Hawks do get a lot worse without him. He’s a very good player, who is not worth a contract that hamstrings the ability to do anything else with your roster. Geez. I’m not happy or hopeful.
Najeh Davenpoop
June 30th, 2010
11:54 am
I think the precedence was set when Ja…ja…ja…joe left the Suns in an S&T to a bad Atlanta club. Its all about the money. Thats not just for JJ, but everyone in life, in and out of sports. Whoever can pay the most will get Joe. Its that simple. For Atlanta, either a resign – seeing as though they arent afforded using that same amount to anyone else – or a S&T for some value to me are the only WINS ASG will have to claim. It will be interesting if anything other than JJ resigning with Hawks and staying for the max happens, how ASG will spin it. This, to me, is a very critical PR moment for this franchise moving forward.
Reeal Hawk Fan
June 30th, 2010
11:55 am
To me, it looks like the hawks have loaded up on guards and someone has to go. Joe may be on the way out for a up grade at the 3, 5, for peices to build with. There are way the hawks can still stay at a high level, and not have to eat a high contract. What will be left for horford next year if we give joe all the money this year?
Ted M
June 30th, 2010
11:55 am
Mark,
Do you plan on speaking w/Rick Sund soon?
F-105 Thunderchief
June 30th, 2010
11:57 am
I wonder if Larry Drew has gone to Barnes and Noble to buy some books on motion offenses yet. When he talked about “his” scheme, he sounded like someone vaguely aware of the concept, who had not yet investigated the details.
B.J.
June 30th, 2010
11:57 am
Mark iam torn i want joe back but at the same time i honestly dnt think he’s worth max money,if you give joe max money it ties the hawks hands for future moves via FA/Trades I mean the team has alot of talent 1,2 moves away from being a contender ,126million to joe could kill those moves don’t you think?
Big Sigh
June 30th, 2010
11:58 am
Okay.. I hear a lot of packaging JAMAL CRAWFORD…..um NOO! He is argueably our best PURE shooter other than JO JO. Sign and Trade JO JO if anything…….I mean SG to SF you got LeBron, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, D Wade, Melo wants out so I see all of those names going somewhere before Jo Jo even gets mentioned. Right now its all NEW YORK NEW YORK for Jo Jo and why would he want to go there with the decline in the city and the new owner in Jersey making the move to Brooklyn and stealing the fan base. The fans are TERRIBLE in New York so Jo Jo you can’t get mad at fans when you are suppose to be the leading CAST of the CREW i mean guy what do you expect being our GO TO GUY IN AN ISO OFFENSE. I say wait as long as we can to resign Jo Jo, if we can, listen out of Denver on Melo and see if we can ship a 1, Maybe Marvin or/and Jo and some cash. Insert Jamal in the starting 2 spot give teague the starting spot and work him to death this summer and let bibby come off the bench another pure shooter with NO DEFENSE. We can’t even consider LETTIN NUMBER 5 go and Al yeah you could possibly be a 4 depending if we talk to Dallas on Caron and Dampier for a sign and trade for Jo Jo and Marvin. I would like to keep Marvin but then again JOSH A.K.A HAWKS KILLER SALMONS would like to be here so this year with the moves we make we are either a playoff team or we are not but we must be careful on the wake of the big names switching spots more than likely building the EAST SIGH!
Scoots
June 30th, 2010
11:58 am
M.B -
I’d like to see JJ back in a Hawks uniform, but not at the price it’s going to take to get him – especially being locked into him for 6 years! He’s a really good player, not elite – but he’s going to get elite pay if he stays in Atlanta. I think that’s the gist of the conundrum. If Joe was elite – no problem. If he commanded less $$ – no problem.
I think a sign-and-trade is the best option – especially if we can fulfill some of the other needs this team has (Center, Point Guard). The Hawks have been overloaded for years with guys who can play 2 through 4 (SG, SF, PF), but never a solid center or point guard.
Tony
June 30th, 2010
12:06 pm
I don’t care about JOE. He can get the heck on.
O'Brien
June 30th, 2010
12:06 pm
Najeh,
When Joe left Phoneix, he was only 24. But now, at the age of 29, this might be his last chance to sign with a team thats capable of winning a championship.
ryan
June 30th, 2010
12:07 pm
IF we are not going to get Mello hopefully we still push for Chris Paul or Rudy Gay .
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2010
12:08 pm
Let me say again: The Hawks can’t think about trading anyone until Joe makes a choice.
Enter Arthur Blank
June 30th, 2010
12:11 pm
The ASG won’t sign JJ or do anything to improve the club. Ticket sales will plummet( don’t worry, they won’t get hurt because they don’t have far to fall). The ASG will sell the Hawks. A. Blank will buy the Hawks and Phillips Arena. A. Blank will tear down Phillips to make room for a new outdoor stadium. The new Hawks owned by Mr Blank will play in the “old” Ga Dome. This is from credible sources.
TimP
June 30th, 2010
12:13 pm
….Lebron , D-Wade, sell tickets. End of story. These guys get max contracts regardless. They are legit super-stars who bring profits no matter what. And just strictly from a basketball standpoint, you are almost assured a playoff spot with their talent alone. You might be able to throw Dirk in this group because of his international appeal as well.
Bosh, JJ, Amare, Boozer, Pierce and whoever I forgot….are cleary above players. They are no where near superstars, except for maybe Pierce. But even Pierce needed a complete team around him. These guys are only pawns because D-Wade and LeBron have made it vocal they need one of these players to play. If they said they didn’t need none of these players, none of them would be getting max deals (maybe Bosh…just because he is a lot younger).
As this relates to JJ…
As this relates to JJ… Honesetly, JJ owes the Hawks just as much the Hawks owe him. Yeah, JJ help rebuild this franchise. But I remember at the time the Hawks signed him, many thought we overpaid him. JJ could have easily been in the same category as John Salmons. A damn good journeyman without an opportunity to shine. The Hawks were in a dire situation and took a chance on JJ money wise. For the most part it turned out ok. Bradley, you keep bringing up this point of you don’t understand why the Hawks are not being more vocal in their desire to resign JJ. Well…I don’t know what you call a 4 year 60 million dollar deal, because that sure sounds pretty vocal to me.
The Hawks keep getting pegged as being cheap and it does show at times. The recent coaching hire might prove that. But in hindesight, not throwing a whole bunch of money at Childress prove to be a shrewd business move as well. Many thought the Hawks were cheap then, but nobody was throwing money at Childress.
I said all of that to say, no one knows what the market for JJ will be like until Thursday at 12:01 am. He could very well get multiple max offers or it could be a similar situation with Childress. In either case, the Hawks doesn’t need to outbid themselves for JJ. It would be nice to have him, especially if we could get him around the same rate of the extension that was offered to him a while ago. But at $20 million a season for the next 6 seasons is ridiculous. He is just not that time of player. Maybe for next season it will workout, but it the long run, that would just be horrible for the franchise and the fans. We all know what JJ is and he is not a max player.
Barton
June 30th, 2010
12:14 pm
But I don’t want Joe to resign for a max contract. Can’t ownership see that? Are they afraid of losing ticket sales, because I believe sign him or don’t that they will. It’s an unpopular choice to make in the present, but I honestly believe it will be better for the Hawks down the road not to stake the franchise on Joe Johnson. Why won’t ownership and Sund ever reply to the letters, spreadsheets and pie charts I keep sending them? They are very professional looking. Mark, do you believe that the Hawks are making the best move for the long term prospects of the team by resigning Joe to a max contract? The only thing I can relate this to is the Falcons’ release of Keith Brooking. Incredibly unpopular, but the best thing for the long term prospects of the team.
GT Alum
June 30th, 2010
12:15 pm
I’m one of the people who don’t necessarily mind having JJ back, but don’t want to have to pay him the max for 6 years, which seems like what we’re going to have to do. I also don’t believe we will go back to the level we were at when Johnson first joined the team without him, especially depending on what we can get back in a sign and trade.
It just seems like everyone at the AJC is thinking that losing Joe would be catastrophic for the Hawks. I just don’t think it is. Given, it would make our defense even weaker unless we replace him with a strong defensive perimeter player, but this team has a lot of solid pieces.
Honestly, this NBA free agency speculation seems to be even more overblown than the conference realignment speculation was. It seems like we were very close to the Big 12 going away and the Pac 10 becoming a super-conference, which would’ve likely lead to other movement. I really doubt that 3 of the top FAs end up in the same place, and I doubt the Hawks will be decimated if they lose Joe.
B.J.
June 30th, 2010
12:25 pm
i agree with gt alum and barton joe is good but honestly he got maybe 3 good years left at his current level and the hawks wont be horriable if he goes,build around big Al whatever the outcome
Overseas
June 30th, 2010
12:29 pm
Whats the news on Josh Childress….do we still own his rights???
Mark Bradley
June 30th, 2010
12:31 pm
The Hawks do control Josh Childress’ rights, Overseas.
nobody
June 30th, 2010
12:42 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgency-100630
Nobody predicts the Hawks to get anybody. Except the guy that had Joe going to Dallas in a S&T
Overseas
June 30th, 2010
12:47 pm
I like Marvin Williams and would hate to see him go…..the Hawks are not suspect but we jump the gun too quick as Atlanta Fans. Yes Jo Jo is our Anchor but man we can’t just run an ISO offense and Rely on Jump Shots, we had to do something about the coaching situation. My thing is, why hire our Assistant when as assistants should step up and inform our head that the scheme just isn’t panning out. Yea we can ISO vs subpar teams but we needed more ball movement, not so much rotation on defense I mean vs ORLANDO EVERYONE was rotating to the next defender often having 2 on 1 matchups leaving 2 men open once ORLANDO swings the rock. I think we would be fine with our without Jo Jo because one person does not make or break this hawks team, maybe 2 years ago but with the maturing of Horford and the continuing progression of #5 all I want for christmas is A SOLID PG and a low key Big man….STEP UP TO THE PLATE JEFF TEAGUE I’M ROOTING FOR YOU!!!!!
Overseas
June 30th, 2010
12:51 pm
okay DONT CARE about the Espn article everybody can’t sign with Miami NY or Chi, but maybe just maybe the nets, PO Got GWAP!
Manny
June 30th, 2010
12:59 pm
Maybe I’m the only one, but I personally don’t want JJ back. I would like to see a trade for a big man. As I’ve said before, Channing Frye would look good in a Hawks uniform (not a trade straight up, though. Give me Frye and some money and you can get JJ back.)
John
June 30th, 2010
1:12 pm
The Hawks need to try to trade Marvin Williams, Mo Evans & Mike Bibby. The Hawks need to get rid of players that aren’t going to attract free agents to want to come. Nobody is gonna want to come to Atlanta knowing that Marvin “Duck” Williams is on the team.
ryan
June 30th, 2010
1:15 pm
Hey i do not want Joe to go but i rather go after Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay those are my wish list.
The truth
June 30th, 2010
1:19 pm
Everybody keeps saying Joe is not worth the max. It is time to get over that because it is not the point. All you hear is the max, the max, the max..The real question is who would be a replacement for Joe if he left. There is only going to be one team that wins a NBA Championship each year. Over the last 20 years there have only been a very few. Thus, if Joe leaves who replaces him?
What other pieces out there are for the Hawks.I don’t hear :Lebron, Wade or any of the other top free agents mentioning coming to Atlanta if Joe leaves. Reality is Atlanta will not win 53 games without JJ and any replacement will not be a third team All NBA performer. Think about it, why would JJ agree to a sign and trade to go to another team that is bad. Why would he accept a free agent contract to go to another team that is bad. He is not and no other big name free agent will go to Atl.
Watch my words you all keep talking about max, but who really is max. I can name about four to five guys that you can truly say deserves max. Bit, if someone was saying a million or two dollars per year less than max, then everyone would be saying yes,yes, yes, yes to JJ. Point being, that is the contract for Joe Smith, Collins or the other bench warmers on the team. Sometimes you have to hold on to what you have. These other Eatern teams are only getting better, not going backwards.
I think a Teague, Johnson, Melo, Horford, Al Jefferson combo would do well. With crawford, the new guy, Zsa and a another solid post coming off the bench. Let’s look at trading Marvin, Smooth, Evans, Bibby, Childress and maybe even Crawford (new rookie can score) to see what you might be able to get rather than trying to build around Smooth, Marvin, Horford and Crawford to see what you might get.
DTC
June 30th, 2010
1:27 pm
Let the guy go somewhere else. The problem is we get these guys who have no ability to take “it” to the next level in the playoffs. The Braves have had that problem for 19 years now, with the exception of one year. Find someone with Horford’s drive and let Joe go and rebuild. The Hawks have a lot of good guys with a lot of potential.
My problem with the Hawks is they have no center, then they draft one . . . and then trade him, why? They had the chance to take one of the 7 footers, but did not. Why?
Truth-Serum
June 30th, 2010
1:45 pm
I think JJ would do it in a heart beat. It would be a real chance at a championship. Joe was the man here because he was our best player. He was 4th option with phoenix. Joe just wants a ring and the diffirence between 11 1/2 million and 14 mill is 2 1/2. He can make that up in endorsements.
I believe JJ would not even blink. Too bad ASG and Sund-of-a-bytch dont want to pursue a center to keep JJ here.
Seth Hardizzle
June 30th, 2010
1:47 pm
Just saw on espn where the nuggets are prepared to trade Carmello Anthony. HOw we try to build a trade around josh smith to get melo in atlanta and sign david lee to play 4 and leave big al at 5. Any thoughts?
RickyjoGatorfan
June 30th, 2010
1:53 pm
with a new offensive scheme that doesn’t involve ISO Joe, we can let Joe go. However, I believe the best option for the Hawks is to sign Joe but not at max contract. Trade Smoove for a true Center and move Big Al to 4 spot where he belongs. Marvin will be better suited in Drew’s system as a shooter at the 3. Hawks also have a couple of Crawford’s that are lights out as pure shooters. I’ve said it for years and I’ll keep saying it, the Hawks need a true Center to be legit.
Overseas
June 30th, 2010
2:04 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/06/29/knicks.pitch.lebron/index.html
Jo Jo is gone everyone! He will sign with NY.