Does anybody in Atlanta actually want Joe Johnson to stay?
And this gentleman, oddly enough, is a Hawks' fan. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The city of Cleveland, such as it is, is pleading with LeBron James to stay. My question today: Is anybody in Atlanta doing the same with Joe Johnson?
It’s a strange dynamic, J-J-J-Joe and the A-T-L. Fans have ripped him for shooting too much and for not being LeBron or Kobe. He ripped Hawks fans after Game 3 of the Orlando series. And now, with free agency set to commence, I ask: Do you folks really want Johnson to re-up?
I’ve made the argument before, but here it is again: If Johnson leaves, the Hawks will get a lot worse in a hurry. He might not be LeBron or Kobe, but he’s one of the NBA’s 15 best players. Unless you believe the Hawks will then land one of the 14 or so greater talents — and Jordan Crawford, the 27th selection in the 2010 draft, isn’t such a talent — the team can say goodbye to winning 50 games and probably to reaching Round 2 of the playoffs.
The Hawks surely realize as much. I’m not sure their constituency shares that belief. My reading of Hawks fans is that they — meaning the majority, perhaps the vast majority — don’t think Johnson is worth max money and should therefore hit the road. The trouble with this scenario is that I’m not certain the Atlanta Spirit would spend much money or effort to replace him. (Yes, I’m still stuck on the Larry Drew hire.)
But I’m occasionally wrong when it comes to reading the electorate, and that’s why I’m asking: You out there — do you want Joe Johnson to stay? If not, why not? And if not, what’s Plan B?
(Speaking of which: Yahoo! Sports reports that the Dallas Mavericks would like to work a sign-and-trade for Joe Johnson. Would that work? I say … )
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303 comments Add your comment
John
June 28th, 2010
11:10 am
Rudy Gay is a 3 ??? For the Hawks, Joe is a 2,3 and sometimes 4. Stop with the Rudy Gay talk – not knocking him, but please.
Bye Joe
June 28th, 2010
11:11 am
1. Joe doesn’t show up for playoff games. Whether the Hawks win 42 or 52 games is irrelevant to me if the Hawks can’t get past the second round anyway. We need a player to set up.
2. Joe’s style stifles the productivity of the rest of the Hawks. We have a fast, young, athletic team. Joe produces by doing his iso/one-on-one thing. The rest of the Hawks either stand around watching or get involved through the fast break or doing their own iso/one-on-one thing. In short, while Joe gets his points during the regular season (not so much in the playoffs), he doesn’t create offensive opportunities for his teammates like a star should.
Not Don Waddell
June 28th, 2010
11:13 am
@wawel…that is another thing that leads one to believe that this is all just poppycock from Joe’s reps…they are crazy as hell if they think that Joe is going to make endorsement money…they guy disappears in big games and has no personality…who wants that repping them?
And it is not just taxes in NYC…$1 million will get you a 5,000 sq/ft house in Suwanee….$1 million will get you a 500 sq/ft loft in NYC…
Westurd
June 28th, 2010
11:18 am
Joes inability to show up in the playoff hurts…its hurts a lot.
I would sacrific some regular season wins for a better showing in the playoff. See ya Joe, its been fun (Except for your stupif comments)
wawel78
June 28th, 2010
11:18 am
Thanks NDW, wasn’t even thinking about the real estate.
I would be fine with not signing him and taking our chances. But I should also say I was fine with them taking a chance on Isaiah Rider. My feeling is being 3rd or 4th best in your conference is the same as being bad. If you’re not competing for championships, what’s the difference?
DP
June 28th, 2010
11:21 am
Mark, I am serious. Josh Childress understands basketball is a team game. John Salmons is a good player. They don’t have to replace all of Johnson’s output as some of Johnson’s shots will go to Al Horford and Josh Smith (hopefully close to the basket). Joe Johnson stops the ball on offense and that’s not all on Woodson.
Big Dawg A
June 28th, 2010
11:22 am
I don’t want JJ back but him leaving still does not solve our main problem! This ownership group is a joke! It seems like the Gearon family has modeled themselves after their dear friends the “Smith” family. Yes that would be the same hillbilly family that ran the Falcons into the ground!
You would think if you have money you should have some common sense and know how to run a business! But not everyone earned the money! Just very FRUSTRATING!!!!
NEW CARS
June 28th, 2010
11:23 am
The whole deal comes down to whether we want to be married to JJ and his style for 5-6 more years…We might be a little better for the next couple of years, but I just don’t think that JJ will age well…He’s already a liability on defense and he isn’t going to get any quicker…With him gone, maybe it allows Marvin to be the 17-18 ppg game that he has shown at times..We have a team built for full-court play with a star that operates best in the halfcourt…I’d hate for us to commit the money to JJ and have nothing left to make other improvements….Sign Salmos to the mid-level and in a year we will have a great deal of flexibility with Crawford coming off and Bibby having one year left..To get past the teams in front of us we have to transform, not add a big off the bench
Art Vandelay
June 28th, 2010
11:23 am
Yes, Sheldon Williams is the missing piece. Does Greg Norton play basketball? Get him too.
Walker, Texas Ranger
June 28th, 2010
11:24 am
You have got to keep him and move him to #3. We have got no other options. It’s not like the ASG is going to go out and sign somebody. Hey I would love for him to dominate in post season but at least he got us there. The bigger problem is having a guy that can’t shoot a lick playing #3 who only showed up for 1 playoff game. We have people who can play 2. What is really ashamed is that for most of the NBA, ATL is where the guys want to be and live yet we can’t sign anybody. What is wrong with that?
Dr. Warren
June 28th, 2010
11:27 am
Welcome back, MB. Next time think about visiting Shanghai. I can get you some media passes to a few CBA games, if you don’t mind a few “referees” of a different sort following you and your laptop around. As for Johnson, it seems to me the choice between winning 42 games without him or 50 games with him is like choosing between a trip to Detroit in four star hotel or five star hotel. One might choice feel better than the other, but neither is where you really want to be.
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:27 am
That’s a good point, DP. They don’t have to replace all of Joe’s points. But generally a basketball team doesn’t get better by becoming less gifted.
DP
June 28th, 2010
11:28 am
Here’s a comparison of the career numbers for 2 NBA players:
Player A: 30 years old, 722 career games. 29.3 minutes per game, 16.6 points per game, 45.8% field goal percentage, 1.48 points per field goal attempt, 5.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 2.35 turnovers.
Player B: 29 years old, 743 career games. 36.9 minutes per game, 17.6 points per game, 44.3% field goal percentage, 1.15 points per field goal attempt, 4.2 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 2.19 turnovers.
Those look like pretty comparable players to me. Player A’s higher offensive efficiency (points per field goal attempt) and rebounding offsetting a worse assist to turnover ratio. Player A is producing close to the output of Player B playing only about 80% of the minutes per game.
Player A is Corey Magette, about to play for his 4th team (the Bucks). Nobody was talking about giving him a 6 year max deal. Player B is Joe Johnson.
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:28 am
Good analogy, Dr. Warren.
wardo
June 28th, 2010
11:29 am
Remember this: This past season was his contract year and athletes tend to “try a little harder” in hopes of getting the big bucks with the next contract. If last year was the best JJ can offer then I say “see ya”. He only gets older and more crotchety from here. How many more years do you think that you will be able to count on him anyway? 3 max. So that means that the last 3 years of this monster contract will be miserable years as we all complain about how much money he makes vs what contribution we get from him. Put him in the road and find a younger player, perhaps Rudy Gay. The team concept will improve. It will be more fun to wath a team vs watching Joe and Josh play 1 on 1.
Walker, Texas Ranger
June 28th, 2010
11:29 am
I agree that if we can’t get past the second it is not worth it. I say get rid of Smith, Johnson, Bibby and everybody else not named Horford and Crawford and start over otherwise keep everbody and hope they get better with a new coach.
mike
June 28th, 2010
11:29 am
so yahoo sports just reported that the Mavs want Joe in a sign and trade deal… who would we want from their roster.. here is the report..
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-johnsonmavericks062810
Colorado bulldog
June 28th, 2010
11:32 am
For the Hawks its a catch-22. Don’t sign him and, I agree with you Bradley, that we mostly likely regress. However, sign him and we hamstring ourselves for years and never improve. JJ is was he is. He will never dominate in this league. Come playoff time, he will disappear and frustrate the life out of the fans. I highly doubt he will buy into the ball movement Coach Drew wants to introduce. Maybe for a while but he will fall back into old habits. Sure the Hawks will make the playoffs but we will never make it beyond round 2 with JJ in the fold.
frontofficedorks wake up.
June 28th, 2010
11:33 am
I don’t think ownership has a clue. What is joe’s relationship with the rest of the team? Is there friction with josh? These are things that we have no clue about.Do you know Mark? Does he have any friends with the hawks, and furthermore, are there problems with the team chemistry?Joe sure doesn’t give us any emotion to have a clue. My prediction, he is gone. I have a “feeling” he is done with ASG, The Hawks and Atlanta. Just a guess…Mark, any comments on his teamates?
Ted M
June 28th, 2010
11:35 am
So if JJ gets a max contract in a sign and trade and LeBron does too. Does that mean that JJ and LeBron will be making the exact same amount?
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:36 am
I think the other Hawks want Joe Johnson to stay — but to shoot the ball less often.
Colorado bulldog
June 28th, 2010
11:36 am
I say roll the dice and let him depart. Think long-term not short-term. I’m okay if we go backwards to either a border-line PO team or in the lottery for a year if it means we have money to sign another FA and/or resign Al. I’m okay if it means we get a better selection (and actually have enough sense) on draft day. We have a young core in Al & Josh and it remains to be seen what we have in Teague. I know he is an all-star but SG is the one position where there is an abundance of guys in the NBA who are near the talent-level of JJ… or could be.
DP
June 28th, 2010
11:36 am
mike’s link to the Yahoo article tells the story on Joe Johnson. He wants max money to be a second or third option on a team and get a 6th year on his deal, when he will be over the hill. If Joe Johnson was more about championships than contracts he would never have forced the trade from Phoenix to Atlanta.
Patrick
June 28th, 2010
11:37 am
One of the 15 best players in the league? He was the third-best player on his own team.
Hawk n the Ham
June 28th, 2010
11:37 am
Anyone knocking Rudy Gay has no clue what they are talking about. The boy is a baller. He averaged only 1 point under a game what Joe was averaging. Plus, he is about the only scoring threat for Memphis, so defenses had play with a stop Rudy 1st game plan. And, he is 5 years younger than Joe.
Giving Joe a max salary at his age means he will be on the decline, in turn making it a bad contract handcuffing the ASG further than they already are.
On the whole John Salmons ordeal, if you think Joe dissapeared in the playoffs, Salmons did too when we played them in the 1st round. It was all Jennings for the Bucks.
Horford will be getting his raise soon. You have to account for that as well. If Joe is on a max salary in ATL for the next 6 years, then add Horford’s big raise to the payroll, ASG will not be able to afford anything else. They are cheap and will not drop the dough, to make the dough.
Horford is the star and future of this team. Not Joe.
gadawgs
June 28th, 2010
11:37 am
No!
Sleepy
June 28th, 2010
11:43 am
I want JJ back if the the intent in bringing him back is to win a title not just be happy with embarrassing second rd exits .
PlusSizeModel
June 28th, 2010
11:48 am
Let’s face reality: the Hawks are doomed regardless until the spirit sells. I realize you need to talk about them regardless, but it’s all wasted breath at this point.
ryan
June 28th, 2010
11:49 am
Hawks fans becarefull what you wish for.
BrittishAnger
June 28th, 2010
11:53 am
Nope, I don’t want him to stay…and you’re foolish to think this team will take such a drastic step backwards without him…He was good when others couldn’t step up and take the load, but we have players which need to develop and players who have developed who need the opportunity to make a bigger name for themselves…So begins the era of The Boss…Al Horford for Captain 2010/2011!!!!!
Patrick
June 28th, 2010
11:59 am
Actually, people knocking Rudy Gay know exactly what they are talking about. He has raw stats because he takes so many shots, but he doesn’t use them well. To wit:
Gay has scored 5,538 points in his young career but that has been inflated by a high volume of shots and playing time. But only one active player (Juwan Howard) scored more points through his fourth season while having a career offensive efficiency as poor as Gay’s (104 points per 100 possessions.
This is from an ESPN.com article discussing the major free agents. The general theme for Rudy Gay was “Buyer Beware.”
John
June 28th, 2010
12:02 pm
Sign and Trade him to Memphis for Ronnie Brewer and Marc Gasol. The Hawks will have their Center in Marc Gasol and a replacement for Joe Johnson in Ronnie Brewer.
Billy
June 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
I’m a Spurs fan, and we’re dangerously close to starting over due to getting old. So, we have our own problems. As for JJ, I think he’ll stay in ATL, just a prediction.
frank
June 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
Mark, do you watch the games. He’s a bad shot/ no defense/turnover machine! I’d resign him for 10 bucks an hour. Good ridance JOE!
John
June 28th, 2010
12:03 pm
The Hawks are not going to win the championship if Joe stays anyway so they might as well change the team up.
nahila
June 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
The Hawks are hurting for money more than players, they need to attract more fans to the games and here is how.
With Joe Johnson execute a sign and trade deal that would bring at least 1 big now and draft choices for 2011. Knicks could sign Lee as a sign and trade in the deal with the Hawks.
Sign Shaq for 2 years with team option for 3 year as he will bring the fans to the games.
Sign Josh Childress to come off the bench and start Jamal Crawford at shooting guard.
Sign an additional small forward who can shoot the 3 from free agent list.
Send ZAZA to big man’s camp with Jabbar or Walton for game improvement.
J from the A
June 28th, 2010
12:05 pm
If Joe stays, the Hawks probably don’t get better. Between his max deals and all the other contracts the Hawks have on the books, (barring a miracle trade for the second straight year) the Hawks won’t be in position to get much of anything else out of this off season. (Yes, this means no legitimate center to back up Horford … hell, this means no true depth anywhere except at the 2.)
Of course, the problem is: If the Hawks don’t resign Joe, the Hawks don’t have the cap space to get a true replacement for him. Without Joe, or a player of near-equal talent, the Hawks will probably be looking at a fight for the 7th or 8th seed in the East and will probably be ousted in the 1st Round.
Of course, we need to look past *just next year*. Signing Joe to a max deal will take a huge chunk out of the Hawks cap space for years to come. Does anyone really think Joe is worth killing cap space for 5 or 6 years … even if Joe stays healthy?
I like Joe. I like Joe a lot. I hope he is in a Hawks uniform next year. But I also want to see the Hawks become a much deeper team, especially at the 5. It would be nice for the Hawks to be able to pick up a quality true center. I also want the Hawks to have the cap flexibility to go after a good wingman if Marvin doesn’t blossom this year … flexibility to go after another point might be needed too if Teague still isn’t ready to start on a Eastern contending team by the end of the year. And let us not forget that Horford and Smith will be free agents one day (Horford one day soon!). Do the Hawks want a Joe Johnson max contract dictating whether Horford or Smith stays? Sure, the Hawks will be able to find money to resign these guys even with a Joe Johnson max on the books, but at what cost? That cost will be depth …
The cost of resigning Joe means no depth (except at the 2) next year … and being forced to make a choice between depth and resigning potentially franchise guys in the years to come.
But of course this all assumes that the Hawks are forced to sign Joe to a max contract just to get him back. If Joe will settle for a bit less than the max, it may become a no-brainer.
Formul8or
June 28th, 2010
12:06 pm
The team needs someone else to build around. JJ disappears too much and doesn’t seem to have any passion. Seems obvious he isn’t interested in staying so I don’t get why the management is so bent on keeping him.
Keith
June 28th, 2010
12:06 pm
Joe has not been feeling the love from the fans for a while….didn’t help with those comments he said about the people who pay to see him play either. Joe probably wants out…The Spirit definitely won’t pay him top dollar. The team will suffer for the next few years unitl they pay or find a Joe substiute……the guys a top level preformer but doesn’t have the personality to carry a team…in other words bye Joe and back to mediocre for the Hawk fans!
Dr. Warren
June 28th, 2010
12:06 pm
This highly restrictive and complex free agent system, combined with the crap-shoot draft, means most teams only get a chance every five or six years to improve themselves drastically, and even then it takes extreme good luck combined with smart drafting. We all know this story by now, but since Billy Knight blew our chance to get a superstar and near superstar in Chris Paul and Brandon Roy, and therefore, our chance to get to the conference finals, we might have to wait for the cycle to come around again: that is, be a lottery team and hope whoever’s calling the shots gets it right. (And hope by then they aren’t the Seattle Hawks).
allan in texas
June 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
A sign and trade with Dallas sounds interesting. What does the Mavericks have on their roster that would be appealing to the Hawks?
Zero Sum Game
June 28th, 2010
12:07 pm
Seems to me that if the Hawks sign JJ to a max contract, this team is basically what we’ll have for the next 5-6 years, because the money will be gone. And, unfortunately, I think this team may have peaked. So, the question is, is that good enough? I’d hope the answer is no… but I have not seen any other scenario where the Hawks get better, except for Schultz’ sort of hare-brained ideas about landing Lebron here. So, I guess the Spirit should go ahead and blow the money on JJ. Maybe if we get Chills back, the team will be slightly better next year.
JAMES
June 28th, 2010
12:09 pm
Mark,
Seems like regardless of what people think about JJ, nearly everyone agrees that Horford is a great player, a character guy, and a leader–who will probably deserve max money soon enough. Do you think the Hawks organization feels that way–that maybe Horford in a few years is much more important than JJ now?
I think Johnson is a great player, but they fact that he is often not assertive in key situations really makes me think he’s not worth the max contract. I’ll suffer through some weak seasons, as long as it seems like were heading in the right direction with a decent team…
DP
June 28th, 2010
12:12 pm
By the way Mark, when you ask if the Hawks would get to the second round of the playoffs without Joe Johnson you ignore that they would probably have been bounced in the first round last year had the Bucks not been without Andrew Bogut. The Bogut-less Bucks were unquestionably the worst of the 16 playoff teams (35% shooting rookie point guard Brandon Jennings was the go to guy, they had nothing resembling an NBA post player) and it took the Joe Johnson led Hawks 7 games with home court advantage to win that series.
ejh
June 28th, 2010
12:14 pm
Let Joe Go, he is not the type of player that fits with the way this team is growing. People fail to realize that Jamal Crawford is a better two guard than Joe Johnson, he may not play as much Defense but he is a better all around scorer, by getting to the basket and the foul line.
They Hawks should inquire about Chris Paul, maybe trading the rights to Josh Childress, who may sign his one year qualifying offer at 4.8 mil., send Mo Evans, and his expiring contract of 2.5 mil. and Mike Bibby’s 6 mil. and next years 1st round pick for Paul. Then try and sign Brandon Haywood, and do a sign and trade with whomever for Joe Johsnon to pickup a backup shooting guard and another big. New Orleans would probably bite on this trade, because they are trying to shed salary and they think Darren collinson is there future point guard, this gives them two expiring contracts and bibby will have only one year on his after next season. I think this actually make the hawks a better team.
JLM
June 28th, 2010
12:14 pm
We need Joe! For a young team in the growth phase losing a player of his quality would set the team back 2-3 years. Yes, his remarks during the play offs were not appropriate. But at the end of the day, he brings something to the “table”. We are not in a position today to let him go…
SiCkOfThis
June 28th, 2010
12:14 pm
The beautiful thing is…. It doesn’t matter if the fans want him here or not! What’s best for the team is what will be done.
Joe Don't Go Squad
June 28th, 2010
12:16 pm
Yes, some people do! Check it out:
http://joe_dont_go.WebStarts.com/index.html
singndablues
June 28th, 2010
12:17 pm
The Hawks may not be as good initially but they will become better long-term if JJ goes.
The negatives:
Selfish player.
The personality of a garden slug.
Not a prime time player – rarely a factor late in the game even in regular season but esp in post season.
If JJ goes the Hawks will need to bring in another scorer which should be doable. I really think Marvin can cover much of the scoring we got from JJ and I believe Drew will get him much more involved the offense. I think Marvin will surprise people this year.
JJ as the face of this franchise is just too depressing.
jlewis
June 28th, 2010
12:18 pm
JJ not showing up in the playoffs, who else over the last three years was double and triple teamed with no penetrating point guard, no defensive point guard, no bench and no plan? For those in love with Rudy Gay, I used to have floor seats at Memphis games when Pau was there, Gay is the biggest ball hog no hearted player there is. They wanted him out of Memphis until this year, contract year. For those saying he is not top 15, doesnt ALL NBA answer that question?