Does anybody in Atlanta actually want Joe Johnson to stay?
And this gentleman, oddly enough, is a Hawks' fan. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The city of Cleveland, such as it is, is pleading with LeBron James to stay. My question today: Is anybody in Atlanta doing the same with Joe Johnson?
It’s a strange dynamic, J-J-J-Joe and the A-T-L. Fans have ripped him for shooting too much and for not being LeBron or Kobe. He ripped Hawks fans after Game 3 of the Orlando series. And now, with free agency set to commence, I ask: Do you folks really want Johnson to re-up?
I’ve made the argument before, but here it is again: If Johnson leaves, the Hawks will get a lot worse in a hurry. He might not be LeBron or Kobe, but he’s one of the NBA’s 15 best players. Unless you believe the Hawks will then land one of the 14 or so greater talents — and Jordan Crawford, the 27th selection in the 2010 draft, isn’t such a talent — the team can say goodbye to winning 50 games and probably to reaching Round 2 of the playoffs.
The Hawks surely realize as much. I’m not sure their constituency shares that belief. My reading of Hawks fans is that they — meaning the majority, perhaps the vast majority — don’t think Johnson is worth max money and should therefore hit the road. The trouble with this scenario is that I’m not certain the Atlanta Spirit would spend much money or effort to replace him. (Yes, I’m still stuck on the Larry Drew hire.)
But I’m occasionally wrong when it comes to reading the electorate, and that’s why I’m asking: You out there — do you want Joe Johnson to stay? If not, why not? And if not, what’s Plan B?
(Speaking of which: Yahoo! Sports reports that the Dallas Mavericks would like to work a sign-and-trade for Joe Johnson. Would that work? I say … )
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303 comments Add your comment
wawel78
June 28th, 2010
10:20 am
En expert on ESPN still think they’re still a playoff team w/out him. It’s tough for me to want to keep him because what’s the difference between being #3 seed and getting blown out in the 2nd round and being the 8 seed and losing in the first?
While I think he’s a valuable asset, I don’t see the hawks getting any better with him. I feel like it’s time to go another direction.
gtm
June 28th, 2010
10:21 am
Spend so much money that it hurts the team and be a low level playoff team, never getting out of the second round, or don’t spend it and potentially fall out of the playoffs…neither is very attractive. I’m not sure the first scenario is any better just because there are more wins involved.
I’d rather have a team that fans can get behind. It’s hard to support a team that shows little effort at important times and whose best player is boring and doesn’t care about the fans. Joe seems to be made to be a second or third option, and since we don’t have and can’t get another #1, it makes little sense to try to make him fit where he doesn’t belong anyway.
Again, neither option looks good. In a way I don’t think it matters because with or without Joe, a championship or even the ECF is probably out of reach.
Bruce Mac
June 28th, 2010
10:23 am
The NBA: Tip it off and then flop and whine for 80 minutes. The most rediculous bunch of little girls this side of soccer. NBA goes broke within 5 years so who cares where JJ ends up.
Harry
June 28th, 2010
10:25 am
MY biggest problem with signing him is that he wants a 6 or 7 year deal. The last thing the franchise needs is al horford and josh smith further into their primes playing with an aging Joe Johnson
Chief Nock A Homa
June 28th, 2010
10:25 am
Joe Must Go!
Despite the reports out there, you’ve got to know that Joe is NOT going to leave $30 million on the table…
The Hawks will definitely get something out of a sign and trade, Mark…..
It’s just going to depend on who Joe is pushing to go to…
Hawk n the Ham
June 28th, 2010
10:25 am
Let’em go. Sign Rudy Gay!
Terrell
June 28th, 2010
10:26 am
If JJ leaves then you all don’t have to worry about cheering for the Hawks because they won’t be relevant anymore. Everybody here says he took to many shots. Well, there really wasn’t much of an offensive scheme here as he had with the Suns. Look at all the other All-Stars, their teams had some type of offense instead if just isos all day. I don’t see anybody in Free Agency that can give us the same kind of production. You all say Rudy Gay? Come on now. He played on a mediocore team so he should have great stats. Plus, I’m pretty sure if we try to low ball him because we can’t offer him a huge contract Memphis would match it.
When our offense was willing to move the ball around Joe was effective just like any other player in the league. Essentially JJ played 48 mins a game. He always had to guard the best offensive player and had to be the only scoring option in a lot of cases. Look at the finals who did Kobe guard? He didn’t guard sharp shooter Ray Allen but he had an easier assignment in Rondo because if you can stop his penetartion to the basket it’s a toss up on his jump shot. A lot of times the all stars don’t have to play their hardest the whole game so when the end of the game is on the line, they are fresh, and if you look a t Lebron, Dwyane, and Kobe when they were afforded these opportunities they were able to dominate at the end of games but if they had to playe extended hard fought minutes you saw how they struggled. No different of Joe with the exception that he had to almost do this nigh in and night out.
R D 3
June 28th, 2010
10:26 am
Who cares about any of this. UGA Grad and good guy Bubba Watson just one his first golf tournament. I can’t believe you guys left him out.
Not Don Waddell
June 28th, 2010
10:28 am
Let Joe walk, trade Josh Smith for Paul, straight up(Hawks will also have to throw in a little cash), sign Haywood and Salmons to 2-3 year deals, sign Jevale McGee to a longer term deal and you have yourself a squad.
Starting 5 of Paul, Salmons, Marvin, Al and Haywood
Rotation of Teague, the rookie, Zaza, McGee.
Will not win a title, but will be fun to watch. I would love to see Jevale McGee and Chris Paul running the break together.
John
June 28th, 2010
10:28 am
Anybody who says that if they put out a better product – the fans will come is full of it. This city does not support this team, and I can’t see that they ever will. Fact is, for real fans of the sport, the Hawks have been the one of the best products to watch in the NBA. Yet, just like the Braves (check out attendance this year), people always come up with a reason why they don’t go or watch. For those of us who do go and or watch – we know how necessary Joe is. With Joe this team competes with anybody – with out him they are lacking. How can you all compare Joe with Rudy Gay – Do you watch basketball?? Saddest part is without him, Larry Drew who finally got his long overdue shot will probably fail – and he probably won’t ever get another – sad.
Delbert D.
June 28th, 2010
10:30 am
If Joe leaves, is this final vindication for Steve Belkin?
Daddyrich
June 28th, 2010
10:30 am
I wouldnt mind keeping Joe Johnson but his contract demands are too high. He knows one of these other teams will overpay and give him max money. Id say anything more than about $16 mil per year would be seriously overpaying and would cripple any future cap flexibility for the hawks. Also, the hawks are already losing money and Im sure our owners want to keep that extra money in their pocket for now. I predict the hawks sign somebody for the mid-level exception and thats about it. We need a new owner with some cash because the hawks will never be a true contender with the Spirit Group running this thing.
steve brown
June 28th, 2010
10:31 am
Joe Johnson is courting every team with dollars to spend. Let’s assume he is gone. Josh Smith isn’t going anywhere (although my gut tells me he never reaches his maximum ability surrounded by his family and friends). So the question is can we improve without Joe Johnson. I say why not. We get a good player in a sign and trade for JJ, we get Childress back or another good piece in another trade, their are more shots to go around for increased scoring from Horford, Marvin Williams, the point guard and the pieces we bring in. I don’t see a problem putting up points. The question will be team chemistry and defense, no different than before. Since the current group has in my mind peaked there is no reason not to move ahead and I would bet our GM is moving in this direction as we speak.
antidog
June 28th, 2010
10:32 am
RD3 this isn’t a UGA Alumni blog if you haven’t noticed its a Hawks blog, hence Hawks conversation.
John
June 28th, 2010
10:34 am
I think only in Atlanta would the question “Does anybody in Atlanta actually want Joe Johnson to stay?” be asked. There is a reason other teams are out to get him.
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
10:36 am
I may be nuts, but I don’t think it’s safe to think Joe Johnson is gone.
NC Braves Fan
June 28th, 2010
10:37 am
Welcome back, Mark. Hope you enjoyed your time away.
I have mixed feelings about re-upping JJ. On the one hand, the Hawks would have to work very hard (and spend some $$) to make up for the loss of Joe.
On the other hand, I don’t know if six years at max money is a good investment for a wing player in his late 20s. And while it is quite likely the Hawks would get worse without him, how much better would they figure to get WITH him?
TimP
June 28th, 2010
10:38 am
Hey Mark, I know everybody is talking about Rudy Gay, put what do you think about a sign & in trade for David Lee from the Knicks. Seems like that would be more feasible for teams.
feudfinder
June 28th, 2010
10:40 am
Undoubtedly, Joe Johnson is a star player. He has shown that time and time again. However, I still think Atlanta fans did nothing to him; Joe insulted the fans, and I think they demand an apology from him. Joe is loved in Atlanta, but he gets criticized for good reasons. If he feels like he can run away to New York and gets nothing but love there, then he is reading the wrong newspaper. He needs to have a conversation with A-Rod before catching his flight. New York fans do not have half the patience that Atlanta fans have.
antidog
June 28th, 2010
10:41 am
Mark, do you have any signs that those who want him back may get their way?
TimP
June 28th, 2010
10:41 am
…and my only thing with JJ getting a max contract is that he is going to be in his thirties with max money. Unless the Hawks decided to move either Josh or Horford in the future, JJ’s contract will handicap the franchise. I
Bean Counter
June 28th, 2010
10:41 am
We fired Woodson so we could move on to the next level. I don’t believe Drew will get us there. If we let JJ go there is a strong possibility the Hawks would not make playoffs next year. JJ represents too much offense to lose. He is good and the Hawks must resign him. Maybe the reason Joe takes so many shots is because the play that was called by the coach called for Joe to shoot.
steve brown
June 28th, 2010
10:41 am
You are not nuts just lost in love. Did you think Kovy was staying as well?
Jack
June 28th, 2010
10:42 am
well said feudfinder
bobby
June 28th, 2010
10:43 am
in 3 or 4 years a back court of Jordan Crwford and Teague coud be formidable with a front court of smith and horford. I love the idea of signing Salmons in Johnsons place.
Teague,Salmons, Williams, Smith , Horford
Bench Zaza,Jamal,Jchilly willy, Mo Evans, and Jordan Crawford
Sign And trade
if Joe goes to Knicks get a couple draft picks (1 and 2) and 2 of the following 3 wilson chandler, sergio rodriguez, toney douglas
If joe goes to Bulls get a couple draft picks (1 and 2) jannero Pargo and James Johnson.
Craig
June 28th, 2010
10:43 am
It simply comes down to, does Joe want to be here? The fact that he would play for the Knicks (maybe) for less money tells me no. Joe is not a leader and to me, not a player that you build your offense around. The guy in no Wade, LeBron, Kobe, but matched with one these premier players would make their team unstoppable. Joe is a number two player and the problem is we do not have a go to leader who we know every game is going for no less then 25 points a game. To bad our ownership is cheap and we could be mentioned in the same sentence as Wade and LeBron.
Doug
June 28th, 2010
10:46 am
First he is most clearly NOT in the top 15 players in the league…maybe…maybe top 24 or so. Clearly better: Bryant. James, Wade, Durant, Anthony, Novitzki, Granger, Bosh, Howard, Paul, Nash, Williams, Rondo, Rose–Arguably better: Granger, Ellis, Stoudemire, Westbrook, Horford, Bosh, Evans, Gay, Igodoula, Aldridge, Jefferson. Who on that list would you not trade Johnson for?
Second, the question is if the Hawks sign him to max contract what will that look like in 3 much less 6 years? The guy is manifestly not at that level…much better to try and facilitate a sign-trade, acquire a younger assett and build around Al Horford
Jack
June 28th, 2010
10:47 am
This is the one time I am glad ASG is cheap. That means Joe Whino Johnson will whine somewhere else.
ChuckWDawg
June 28th, 2010
10:48 am
Are there other teams that will offer Joe a “Max Contract? So far nothing has indicated that one way or the other. This is a wait and see game with him at this point. But if Joe leaves that is a big hole that it appears won’t be filled by anyone with the same level of talent any time soon. Best case scenario is the Hawks take a step backwards in ‘10-’11 and find a way to reload and shuffle the line-up the next season. The Spirit fired Woodson presuming he was the problem. They need to commit to that decison by doing all they can to keep a perennial All-star. I for one hope they re-sign Joe.
DV
June 28th, 2010
10:49 am
Yes. 50 wins is better than 30.
Taylor
June 28th, 2010
10:50 am
Yes John we watch basketball thats why we can say Rudy Gay plays with heart unlike Joe. He might not possess the skills Joe does but he is more of a gamer. He could flourish with some talent around him. Joe Johnson is a spoiled brat that will never lead us or any other team to a championship. We need someone who wants to play and win not just go through the motions. As someone else put it do you ever see Kobe disappear for an entire game? Hell no. Joe certainly has many times
Not Don Waddell
June 28th, 2010
10:50 am
EVERYONE…WE CANNOT DO A SIGN AND TRADE WITH THE KNICKS…sign and trades are only done so that teams without enough cap room can sign a player they would not ordinarily be able to sign…the Knicks have enough cap room so that they do not have to do a sign-and-trade, they can simply sign Joe.
This would obviously be the worst thing that could happen, as the Hawks would lose Joe and get nothing in return. I believe it is just lies from Joe’s reps, because they are not going to leave $30 mill on the table, and Joe is not going to be getting a lot of endorsement deals anywhere he goes, because he has the personality of a log.
The reason why Joe’s agents have floated the gossip about the Knicks is because they are the one team who could sign Joe to a big deal without doing a sign-and-trade, thus forcing the Hawks’ hand at either putting a max deal together or a sign-and-trade deal.
It’s all rumours, most likely created by Joe’s agents.
Paddy
June 28th, 2010
10:51 am
If he does not like the Atl fans, which is obvious, he should sign with another franchise. Notice I said franchise and not team. There is no team in that game that he brings. Same old, same old, if he comes back!
Not Don Waddell
June 28th, 2010
10:53 am
@Doug@10:46,
You left Tim Duncan and Tony Parker off of your list, who are both much better than Joe. I would have a hard time choosing between Ginobli and Joe, too.
justice
June 28th, 2010
10:55 am
How are the fans suppose to come out and support the Hawks when the Newspaper doesn’t market them in a positive light? How are the fans suppose to be happy about having a basketball team when you guys consistantly bash them (Atlanta Hawks). I live in North Carolina although I was born and raised in Georgia. So states don’t have a team and would give anything to have one. We talk S@#! about our hawks and how we are not going to support them for various reasons instead of being happy to have a team. If I was there in Atlanta I wouldn’t miss a home game.
What I am trying to say is support the team as a whole and not get caught up in this negative BS. If the sports writer for another city said crap like this I would understand, but our own writer. Man this is pitiful. Just like my Grammer (LOL)
Mike P.
June 28th, 2010
10:55 am
Definetely want Joe back although I think he will end up with either the Knicks, Bulls or Heat…….Also lets try to figure out a way
to get Sheldon Williams back on the roster. Go Hawks!!
TONE
June 28th, 2010
10:56 am
JJ is gone the hawks will stand pat with what they have (because they are cheap) , and williams is going to come into his own he will be an all star 25 + PPG.Smoove will lead the league in 3 point % and Drew will be the coach of the year and the hawks will sweep the clippers in the finals !
I believe two of the statements that i typed above !
but which two ?
Michael Bicknell
June 28th, 2010
10:57 am
I would like to keep Joe but I want to develop Teague to run the show. That’s why we drafted him. I also want the new HC to somehow get 16+ ppg out of Marvin Williams. I guess I want a lot.
wawel78
June 28th, 2010
10:57 am
actually Not Don Waddell – a sign&trade would allow Joe a bigger contract @ NY. The Real Don Waddell would’ve known that.
JEWELL
June 28th, 2010
11:00 am
WHEN JOE TURNED DOWN THE $60. MIL EXTENSION THE HAWKS OFFERED I THINK THE WRITING WAS ON THE WALL THEN. THAT BEING SAID, I LIKE THE IDEA OF MOVING HIM TO SF AND GETTING RID OF MARVIN (BUST) WILLIAMS. BILLY KNIGHT WAS ENAMORED WITH WILLIAMS’ (SHELDEN & MARVIN). PASSING ON CHRIS PAUL, DERON WILLIMAS, RUDY GAY, AND BRANDEN ROY…NEED I GO ON?
Not Don Waddell
June 28th, 2010
11:01 am
yes, wawel78, but that is not what the rumors have been…the stuff that came out on ESPN was that Joe would sign straight up with the Knicks and leave $30 million on the table, that is why I think it is just a hoax by his agents to get the Hawks to make a move
Jody
June 28th, 2010
11:02 am
I think the Hawks will offer the max to bring him back. They have no other option. However, they’re going to have to solve their problem up front as I don’t think Al wants to play center anymore.
Ossie
June 28th, 2010
11:05 am
Say that Yao opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent. If we don’t sign joe could we use that extra money to maybe sign Yao to a max contract? He’s the center that we need and would makes us significantly better.
DP
June 28th, 2010
11:05 am
If Joe Johnson isn’t gone it will be because he finds out the demand for his services isn’t what he thought it was. I doubt there a lot of teams ready to hand a 6 year max deal to a 29 year old player who has repeatedly demonstrated that he is not capable of carrying a team in the playoffs.
Mark, you seem to be very short term oriented, constantly saying that Atlanta will probably win less games next year if Johnson isn’t resigned. What good does it do to win 53 games and then get beaten like a rented mule in the second round of the playoffs? Where will the Hawks be if Johnson starts declining in a couple of years and the Hawks are stuck with another 3-4 years on his contract?
I think the Hawks should sign Childress to a 3-4 year deal and either sign and trade Johnson or use the roughly half of his salary they can spend if they lose him as a free agent to sign John Salmons to a 3 year deal. Then dangle some pieces like Jamal Crawford and his expiring contract or Marvin Williams (if anybody will take his contract) to try to get a big like Kevin Love or Al Jefferson or a point guard like Darren Collison.
If the Hawks replaced Johnson with Childress and Salmons and stopped the isolation ball I don’t think there would be much of a dropoff from the 53 games they won last year. And it’s unlikely they’ll be less competitive in the playoffs given that they’ve already taken the worst 4 game playoff beating in NBA history.
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:06 am
Good point, steve brown. I did think Kovalchuk would stay.
Whopper Dawg
June 28th, 2010
11:07 am
To paraphrase the great Branch Rickey, We can lose in the second round of the playoffs without him.
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:08 am
DP, let’s get serious: Josh Childress is a good sub, but he’s not a first-rank NBA player. And John Salmons is a journeyman. Good player, but nothing special.
wawel78
June 28th, 2010
11:08 am
NDW – you said they cannot do a sign&trade. They actually can do a sign&trade and from a purely financial perspective makes the most sense for Joe.
I read that Joe thinks he can make it up in endorsements. Does he really bring in that much endorsement money? Also, aren’t taxes in that area significantly higher than ATL?
Mark Bradley
June 28th, 2010
11:09 am
But can the Hawks reach the second round without Joe Johnson, Whopper Dawg? And is a fan base that isn’t exactly rabid willing to suffer short-term losses to get better (perhaps) over the long term?
wawel78
June 28th, 2010
11:10 am
Mark – I don’t see anything from the JJ camp that indicates he would like to say. Everything I read points otherwise. If SAS’s reports are even half true, that opens up slots for JJ to head north/midwest.