Does Joe Johnson want to share? Does he want to win?
Might this be Joe's response to the concept of sharing? (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
Larry Drew wants Joe Johnson to remain a Hawk and share the ball. At issue now:
1. Was iso-Joe the plan, or did it reflect the absence of a plan? It was tough to tell if isolations became the Hawks’ default mechanism by design or … well, default. Was the offense designed that way from Day 1 of Johnson’s first season (2005-2006) as a Hawk, or was it just Mike Woodson’s convenient way of getting the ball in his best player’s hands with the game on the line? And will Drew, who is known as a more sophisticated offensive coach than his predecessor, be able to implement a system that gives Joe the big shots but not all the dribbles?
2. Will Johnson want to remain a Hawk if he’s no longer THE Hawk? Johnson wasn’t a selfish player at Arkansas or with Phoenix. (Indeed, he was the Suns’ fourth option.) He didn’t seem selfish as a Hawk until this season, when it became apparent he and Jamal Crawford didn’t mesh quite the way he and Mike Bibby had. A lot of teams are going to throw money at Joe come July. Would he choose to remain with the one club that has come out and said, “We want you to share the ball”?
3. If Joe Johnson shares the ball, is he still Joe Johnson? Drew hinted at it Monday: Nobody else in the NBA — not LeBron, not Kobe, not D-Wade — plays quite the way Joe does. Even those who are bigger stars aren’t dribble-dribble-dribble guys. If you’re looking for an antecedent, you might have to go back all the way to Oscar Robertson. And if Johnson isn’t dribbling and backing a man down, what should he be doing? Standing on the perimeter awaiting a kickout pass? Posting himself low and overmatching smaller defenders?
4. If Joe Johnson is no longer taking all the big shots, is he still worth max money? The short answer: Probably, because he’ll get his money elsewhere if he doesn’t here. But it does seem odd that a sales pitch would be worded thusly: “Joe, we want you to stick around, but we want you to change.”
5. How much does Joe Johnson want to win? Here’s the key question. He’s already a rich man, and he’s about to become a richer one. Does he want to retire with a bunch of points and a huge financial portfolio, or does he want to re-invent himself as Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen have? Each of them was what Johnson is — a great player/main man who could never sniff a title. They changed because they cared more about winning. We’re about to learn what motivates Joe Johnson.
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106 comments Add your comment
Larvell "SugarBear" Blanks
June 16th, 2010
12:50 pm
First,
MB my hunch tells me that JJ takes the money and runs!
Mark Bradley
June 16th, 2010
12:52 pm
Actually, I think he’ll stay, SugarBear.
Sherewshevsky
June 16th, 2010
12:57 pm
Re: your 3rd point: JJ is more than capable of playing like Paul Pierce.
Rich
June 16th, 2010
1:00 pm
My take: it’s all about Joe. I’ll help him pack.
Ryder
June 16th, 2010
1:01 pm
I don’t think that Johnson truly believes he can win in Atlanta. I think the beating they’ve taken the past two years has shown that even with JJ the Hawks aren’t big enough to challenge for the title, no matter how much run-and-gun Coach Drew wants to implement into the offense.
Also, there’s one more reason JJ isn’t worth signing for max money: He simply isn’t tough enough to lead a team to victory when the calendar turns to May. When a guy like Kobe Bryant or Lebron isn’t able to hit their shots, the first thing they do is get their teammates involved.
People can say it was Woodson’s offense that prevented a lot of ball movement, but JJ couldn’t try to dicate a better flow when the offense became stagnant?
Besides, even if JJ stays here, Atlanta will still need another player who can help Horford in the paint.
dap01
June 16th, 2010
1:07 pm
Joe left Pheonix because he wanted to be the man. No one knows what motivates Joe. He is a great player. I hope he stays but I think that he leaves.
If he goes somewhere else, he still will not be allowed to dribble, dribble shoot.
I think that Joe suffered because of Woody’s lack of offense.
Doug
June 16th, 2010
1:11 pm
I know my take is in the minority but I think JJ is one of the most overrated players in the league. Why?? Because he is a high volume-low percentage shooter…in other words he has to have the ball in his hands and shoot often to approach decent FG% numbers. He is not a good draw-kick player because he is sooo inconsistent as a standstill shooter. He appears entrenched in his ways and will probably make max money from somebody…remember this is the league that gave Eddie Curry a multi year wealth creating deal. The Hawks would be foolish to give him max money as he will assurendly head farhter south over the next several years. Best scenario: sign and trade
Barry
June 16th, 2010
1:12 pm
Short of the Hawks signing DWade or Lebron, I hope Joe stays. I think he would thrive in an offense that moves the ball all the time. To Sherewshevsky’s point, Paul Pierce is the perfect example of what Joe could become. I can’t stand Pierce, but he’s a killer. I think Joe could be a very similar player to Pierce. I sure hope he stays.
show me state
June 16th, 2010
1:16 pm
We need joe back……..
O'Brien
June 16th, 2010
1:16 pm
Even without all the extra dribble dribble, JJ would still be our #1 option. He can still get his 20 pts, 5 rebounds and 5 assists per game, and he can still defend his position well. So I would love to have him back.
And if he goes to Chicago, Miami or Cleveland, I don’t think he will be allowed to dribble dribble like he did here anyway. So I think he is okay with that. His 2 goals are to win, and to get paid.
But at what cost? That’s the tough part. Can we afford to pay him max money (5 years, $95 mil, or 6 years, $115 mil)? I don’t think so. If he will take 5 years, $80 mil? I’d sign him quick, fast and in a hurry.
Matty Ice
June 16th, 2010
1:18 pm
this is why I hate basketball moreso than football. Players have too much freedom to move – the NFL has it about right. You can control a player as long as you are willing to pay the player market value…Hawks go from “top 8″ team in NBA w/ Joe to probably down to “middle-of-the-pack” without him.
Franchise players are so few and you cannot really build a team w/o a franchise player. In the NFL, if you have a talented GM/Scouts, you can build a good team in 3-5 years and get to the SuperBowl. In the NBA, unless/until you get a “top 5″ player, you have no chance at an NBA title.
Ready for Football season to start. Sign JJ….you have no choice.
SOUTH GA DAWG FAN
June 16th, 2010
1:19 pm
You are predicting that Joe stays Mark ?
should I be looking to buy a collectible Joe Johnson miami heat jersey early before everybody else does ?
just joking I know you are one of the best prognosticators in history.
Meat and Three
June 16th, 2010
1:22 pm
Why not let Joe go, and then sign Bosh and let Jamal crawford start?
Khao$
June 16th, 2010
1:23 pm
I think Joe is long gone. I believe that after the “Summit” Joe will end up playing next to Wade, Lebron, or Bosh. Joe knows he’s going to get paid and no one can pay him more than the Hawks. However, Pierce, Allen, and Garnett proved that if superstars can put their egos to the side for the betterment of the team, you can win championships. Granted. Pierce was already in Boston ad Allen and Garnett were acquired by trade. Nevertheless, they still had to reach an agreement to play together. I believe the “Summit” is looking at Boston as the model. Only this time, they dictate where they will go, not a GM by trade.
Joe is long gone. And although some would love to show him the door out, the broke ASG will only have 8 million under the cap and aren’t willing to spend into the luxury tax. Therefore, it is sign Joe or bust. I hate to say this, but I don’t know of a 20ppg player in the league that will sign for the mid-level exemption.
wxwax
June 16th, 2010
1:25 pm
Sounds like Larry Drew wants to implement a motion offense. That could give everyone lots of touches in good positions.
Players seem to like a motion offense because it makes their stats look nice and shiny. So if Johnson stays I don’t think the offense will bog down around him the way it did under Woodson.
UGASlobberknocker
June 16th, 2010
1:26 pm
The thing I dont like about Johnson is that he absolutely disappears for long stretches, 1 1/2 or two quarters. Then all of a sudden you cant get the ball out of his hands. He is too inconsistent to be the topdog or the stud who carries you to a championship.
That said, he will get his money somewhere, so the need to sign him unless he doesnt buy into the “less Joe is more”philosophy..then we need to drop him like a hot rock.
DP
June 16th, 2010
1:27 pm
“If Joe Johnson is no longer taking all the big shots, is he still worth max money? The short answer: Probably, because he’ll get his money elsewhere if he doesn’t here.”
Mark, that’s not an adequate answer unless you subscribe to the greater fool theory. The fact that somebody else will pay him doesn’t determine what he’s worth to the Hawks. If he insists on dominating the ball with the Hawks but is willing to play second banana to LeBron or D-Wade, he’s worth more elsewhere.
The fact is that Joe Johnson is not an A-level superstar with Kobe, LeBron, D-Wade, Dwight Howard, etc. If he wants to win a championship (and given that he forced his way off a great Phoenix team to a terrible Atlanta team I’m not sure it’s that big a priority for him), he must either play as one guy on a balanced team with no superstars (like the 2004 Pistons) or as the second banana to a real superstar.
Reggie
June 16th, 2010
1:27 pm
Mark
It seems like pople have forgetten about what Joe Johnson was with the Suns. Johnson was very effictive with the Suns with Steve Nash & Amare Stoudemire & was one of the top three point shooters in the league in terms of 3 point field goal perecentage. If he truely wants to win, then it would make alot of sense to stay here with the Hawks.
kent
June 16th, 2010
1:28 pm
how many times are you going to write the same article?
UGASlobberknocker
June 16th, 2010
1:29 pm
If Drew can get any Hawk in motion..heck to get any Hawk to even move at all in a half court set..then he may be coach of the year.
UGA Slobber-Justshutupper-Knocker
June 16th, 2010
1:30 pm
Kent,how many times are you gonna bitch about the articles?
wxwax
June 16th, 2010
1:32 pm
Slobberknocker, the Hawks are a very athletic team.
The motion is perfect for these guys. it would keep Josh Smith near the post, it would allow Johnson and Crawford to get open shots in the flow and it plays to Horford’s strength as a undersize but mobile center. And, of course, it could allow Teague to shine.
UGA Slobberknocker
June 16th, 2010
1:33 pm
All of this Hawks talk brings this question to mind…When do the Falcons report?
UGA Slobberknocker
June 16th, 2010
1:34 pm
I know the Hawks are athletic..it is that inability to demonstrate it that bothers me.
Astro Joe
June 16th, 2010
1:34 pm
If Joe is talking about playing with LeBron, Wade and other elite players, then he obviously isn’t married to the idea of drible, dribble, dribble shoot. At the same time, let’s not ignore that the Hawks had one of the best regular season offenses in the conference by just about every statistic. If we were so iso-Joe based, then how did Jamal become SMOY and Horfrod an All-Star? How did Josh have his most efficient season in his career? Why did they rank in the top 5 in fast break points? The playoffs were awful, no doubt, but this assumption that he Hawks have somehow guaranteed themselves a playoff slot with/without Joe is wrong. Yes, Joe can adapt to a different style, average 5+ assists and be a better teammate. And if he isn’t here next season, performing better in the playoffs will be the least of this team’s concerns.
Captain Lou Albano
June 16th, 2010
1:35 pm
First Joe Johnson is not a clutch player. He’s fairly consistent though. I say we go after Chris Bosh.
Stockdog
June 16th, 2010
1:35 pm
SugarBear if Joe takes the money then he stays, the Hawks can offer him more than any other team. Only way would be with a sign and trade, that scenario is highly unlikely. I think Joe shares and stays. I like what I hear from Larry Drew. As for Joe not being a top 5 nor top 10 player is ok, because the Hawks have more talent 1-8 than all but 5 teams. I say Joe stays and the Hawks continue to improve. I don’t think that this team has reached its ceiling yet.
Astro Joe
June 16th, 2010
1:41 pm
I’d also suggest re-looking at some quotes from Joe made in a previous season when he talked about ‘not getting the ball back”. We don;t know enough about how plays were supposed to run to understand how many times other teammates may have broken plays off and shot an ill-advised shot. Does that give joe the right to go iso? Of course not. But if Drew is bringing a new level of accountability and ball movement to the team, then maybe Joe won’t have as many concerns about how plays are executed. At the end of the day, you still want the player with the best ability to score the ball to take the most shots… even if that means he’s only shooting 2-3 more times than the other guy. In Drew’s new innovative, one-of-a-kind-never-seen-before offense, someone has to take the most shots and I most definitely vote for Joe to have that burden.
Bozo the Clown
June 16th, 2010
1:41 pm
Hey Mark,
Isn’t it about time for a blog about how BP is saving those people affected by the gulf oil spill b/c they’re setting up a disaster fund? Similar to your “Texas saves college football” blog.
Reid Adair
June 16th, 2010
1:57 pm
Very interesting questions, Mark.
1. I’m not sure on this one. Either way, what it would accomplish peaked in 2008-09, and it was clear Joe Johnson didn’t like the changes in 2009-10.
2. I doubt it. Even if he did, I personally don’t want him around. Say what you want, but his playoff comments about the fans were bad. He had problems with Jamal Crawford, as you stated. If Jeff Teague starts taking minutes from Mike Bibby, how is Johnson going to work with Teague?
3. His Phoenix situation was different. Given what has transpired since he arrived in Atlanta, I say no.
4. I don’t believe he’s worth max money even if he is THE Hawk. All of that talk about a free-agent “summit” with Johnson, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Amare Stoudemire. Can you guess which one is not like the others? It’s easy. Johnson.
5. I can’t speak for whether he wants to win or not. That’s a lot like #1.
SWAT Native
June 16th, 2010
1:57 pm
Ryder,
You said that you don’t think that Joe believes that he can win in Atlanta. I would tell him that he would have a better shot if he would play up to his level consistently in the playoffs.
Just-A-Thought
June 16th, 2010
1:57 pm
So IF Joe resigns (which I don’t think is going to happen…..), like someone mentioned earlier, which other player is going to come help this team out?…………..This team the way it is now, including Joe, really needs a 17 to 20 ppg low post player, not a every once in a while or once a week, but a legit 17 to 20 ppg LPP. And no Amare is NOT coming to play for the Hawks……….
GT Alum
June 16th, 2010
1:58 pm
To points number 2 and 3, I don’t think anyone is asking Joe to take a back seat. We just want him to share the front seat. I would imagine him doing some posting up, considering he’s a big guard. I wouldn’t see him standing around on the perimeter waiting for a kick out as much as I see him running off of screens and moving without the ball to get open shots. Taking a defender one-on-one isn’t the only way to use your athleticism to get a shot.
All that said, I also don’t expect iso-Joe to completely go away if he stays. He’s a good player who has the ability to create his own shot. I do expect to see less iso-Joe, for the offense not to get bogged down in it. I also expect Joe to either back out of it and re-try, or to pass out of it and try to set up a shot a different way rather than forcing a shot.
If Joe stays, we still need him to be THE Hawk. He just can’t be THE ONLY Hawk.
Joey
June 16th, 2010
2:00 pm
No. And No.
Just-A-Thought
June 16th, 2010
2:04 pm
From an offensive stand point Josh and Horford are very limited, neither are very polished on offense, so on a nightly bases you never know what you are going to get from either guy offensively. So WHO OH WHO………….
Westurd
June 16th, 2010
2:06 pm
Mark,
You said it all in your last line…..,”We’re about to learn what motivates Joe Johnson.”
JDK
June 16th, 2010
2:06 pm
Mark – WHY do you think he’ll stay?
GT Alum
June 16th, 2010
2:07 pm
Astro Joe, to your point about Joe complaining he never got the ball back, I have to wonder if some of that is because the other guys got their hands on the ball so rarely that when they did, they didn’t want to give it back because they didn’t know when they’d get it next.
Also, a few years ago, the Hawks were a very young team. Joe needed to realize that these guys were not going to execute perfectly. Rather than retreating into iso-Joe, he needed to help coach these guys into staying in the offense and playing a team game.
Which brings me to a question MB didn’t ask – can Joe be a leader? This team needs a veteran voice to support what the coach is saying and to be a leader on the floor. I think Bibby took that role somewhat when he first joined the team, but his struggles seemed to interfere with that last season, and, with his role diminishing, he’s probably not the best guy to take that role. Joe has the experience to take on that role, and, especially if he’s willing to sacrifice iso-Joe for the team, I think the other players will listen to him. Does he have the maturity to take on that role? His reaction to the fans booing raises serious questions in that regard. Is he willing to take on that role?
Hubie Brown
June 16th, 2010
2:15 pm
The Hawks could bring everyone back, including Joe, and they must dedicate to being a more defensive club, starting with a freaking-shot blocking center similar to the “Tree”. If we do that and share the ball offensively, get ready for the finals boys.
layinlow
June 16th, 2010
2:16 pm
I want Joe back but not at max money. This guy is definently a notch below wade and lebron. So does he deserve the same money? no. If he can find a team that is willing to give him the max deal then the Hawks can do a sign and trade so he can get the 6 year deal. Joe is around 29 so I don’t believe he will be able to perform at a high enough level over 6 years to deserve max money.
Mystikal
June 16th, 2010
2:20 pm
I don’t think Joe is a selfish guy. Not so long ago we all wanted the ball in Joe’s hands because he’s the best scorer/playmaker/etc.. This season with teams more than ready for the “Iso-Joe,” along with the way the season ended, it is a big deal now. What was the other option though? Bibby was nice the past 2 yrs but this season he regressed to the point where he was a liability. We all get caught up in Josh Smith’s highlights and what he does on defense, but realistically he is far from ready to be a goto guy offensively. Jamal Crawford can get his own shot and occasionally others, but he can only make that happen in small spurts. Al
Grandad
June 16th, 2010
2:21 pm
Mark; I’m actually sorry that you must put up with
some of the inane comments I’ve heard today.
Such as:
1. let Joe go & *sign Bosh (well prepared reader)*not possible
2. whining about your article
3. JJ, overrated, high-vlume, low % – What???
Mark:
You’re an intelligent B-ball guy.
*(Kentucky)*
Now – Joe is a very, very good & well rounded player.
He is [just] NOT explosive, as is D.Wade, LbJ, Kobe, et al.
As AJ said he may still leave to be a 2nd bananna/sidekick for:
fill in the blank _________ _________ elsewhere.
My take is he just fell into a trap of being in *Woodson’s [lack of]
system. Thus becoming Iso-Joe.
If LD does a nice job of selling him on his “program”,
my feeling is Joe will buy in.
With Joe & the pos. return of Childress – intuitive drafting,
a savvy FA signing & LD is set up for success in his inaugural
coaching season.
I’m hoping there was no personal animosity between he and Jamal.
Billy
June 16th, 2010
2:23 pm
Have the Falcons signed Weatherspoon yet? Sorry, wrong column. As for Joe, something tells me he takes the $$$ and stays. No particular reason for saying that, just my gut feeling.
Mystikal
June 16th, 2010
2:24 pm
Horford I believe has the skills to be featured offensively, if we actually ran an offense. And it would help if he weren’t being overmatched at center so often but that’ another story.
Point being that JJ doesn’t truly believe his team is good enough. He believes he is there best shot. There is some truth in that but we know even that isn’t good enough. With some better direction and everyone being held accountable we could be better, perhaps. We’ll see if Drew is up to the task.
Another GM
June 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
I believe Joe would like to return to the Hawks but he is not sure if mgt and ownership are willing to bring in the players to go any farther and that is my concern too. If I was Joe I would be asking the question of what are you going to do to improve the team in the offseason. If history of the past is any indication he will move on.
Another GM
June 16th, 2010
2:26 pm
Those players that the Hawks need to bring are role players and not Bosch and Wade, etc.
feudfinder
June 16th, 2010
2:26 pm
Why does everybody think Joe was holding on to ball too long and purposely? That was the play that was designed for him. Don’t blame Joe. Blame the ex-coach.
YellerSkeeters are PeterEaters!
June 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
Yes!
Pookadoprelanderschitzel
June 16th, 2010
2:30 pm
Isn’t Jamal Crawford pretty much as good as Joe Johnson? And, didn’t we get him for Speedy, Acie and a pack of gum?
GT Alum
June 16th, 2010
2:31 pm
For all the folks who want to get Bosh for us to have a real big man, he’s 6-10. The same height as Horford, and an inch taller than Smooth and Marvin. He’s another forward. If we could sign him instead of Joe, we’d have 3 starting PFs. As much as I’d love to have him here, he’s not the answer for our size issues. He’s not going to help us defend Orlando and other teams with a lot of big guys.
Mystikal
June 16th, 2010
2:33 pm
I like Chris Bosh, but he is not in the top tier with Kobe, Melo, Bron, and Wade. He got great numbers on a bad team and he is the main post player in this free agent class. That is why his name is being thrown around so. I think he’s similar to Joe Johnson. If you put him or Joe with any of the big names above they could go far. Joe and Chris as stars on a team together would be similar to the hawks now. They’ll get to the playoffs and flame out shortly after.
OSCAR
June 16th, 2010
2:34 pm
Good ridance!!!!
Dan23
June 16th, 2010
2:39 pm
Is there any chance that Chilldress will come back to the Hawks? National publications have said that the Hawks probably would not match an offer. Have the bridges been burned that much? Could LD help to change that?
Astro Joe
June 16th, 2010
2:47 pm
GT Alum, after 5 years, the question of Joe as a vocal leader has been resoundly answered. It’s not his personality. It’s not going to become his personality. Regardless of the paycheck, some guys aren’t interested in hearing their voice constantly like others. Cunningham reported that someone would tell Joe that the “locker-room will get better”. That says to me that he has previously expressed frustration with some of his teammates. Cunningham said that some of the players need to “be more serious”, I doubt that he was referencing Joe… he doesn’t strike me as someone who would be goofing off during practice. Both of those issues could contribute to Joe saying “f it” and I’ll do it myself (esepcially in a contract year). Wrong response, no doubt, but not neccessarily a permanent issue (as this blog suggests it may be). Drew was hired because of his familiarity with the players and their issues… I vote for bringing Joe back and empowering the new coach to work his magic. Again, there will be a single top shooter/scorer on this team… don’t think otherwise. I want a 4-time All Star who is still in his prime to be that guy, not anyone else currently on this roster.
JASon
June 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
I don’t particularly like Joe, but I think its odd that you are putting all of this on him. I don’t care if he’s not “the HAWK.” I don’t care if he doesn’t “share the ball.” The point is, get him a coach who knows how to run a f–king offense
ZEKE
June 16th, 2010
2:56 pm
JJ will sign and then be traded to the clippers for Bobby Brown and a six pack
Ron Mexico
June 16th, 2010
2:57 pm
The NBA sucks now anyway, unless you play with Kobe or Lebron there is not going to be a finals for your team. Unless you get lucky like Boston.
Dark Knight
June 16th, 2010
3:01 pm
For all of you that say “Show Joe the door and replace him with Jamal”, Jamal never saw the playoffs until he came to ATL. The Hawks couldn’t spell playoffs until Joe came here. There are very few superstars in the NBA, but there are stars. Joe is our star. I say you keep him because you don’t have a replacement and you certainly don’t have any upgrades. Over his career Joe has shown the ability to change his game. I think that he is willing to change his game in the interest of winning. Mark your comments about Paul Pierce aren’t fair. Celtics gave Pierce 2 All Stars and a top caliber coach. Give JJ the same thing and watch the results.
GT Alum
June 16th, 2010
3:02 pm
Well, Astro Joe, I hate to tell JJ this, but he’ll never be “The Man” if he’s not willing to take some sort of assertive role. He doesn’t have to love the sound of his own voice, as you seem to suggest, but he does have to be dedicated enough to winning to say something if someone’s not doing what they should. He doesn’t even have to ride herd on people. For most things, he could just say a casual, hey, let’s _______(fill in the blank).
No coach can do it all on his own. If Joe’s not willing to fill that role, we need to bring in someone else who can.
And, yes, every team needs to have a guy that they trust to take the last minute shot, or to get them into position to get that last minute shot. As I said, I expect Joe to be THE Hawk if he stays. He just has to realize when the team needs him to take over and when they need him to be a part of the offense, not the whole offense.
#21=Top50,1stBallot
June 16th, 2010
3:27 pm
People seem to be missing the whole problem with “ISO-Joe”. It’s not that Joe shouldn’t be taking the lion’s share of the shots; he definitely should be. It’s the 12-15 odd seconds in between that’s the problem (or one could argue the amount of time is the problem itself). When he runs a one-on-one, the rest of the squad is stagnant so there are no other options for relief. One would think that a more involved, complex offense would corral the attention of the other four players on the court to then allow Joe to reposition or spot up or etc/what have you. Joe’s our best player. Honestly you don’t want Horford, Smoov, or even Jamal to be the focal points of the offense because their games each have a preventative flaw (Horford- robotic post game, Smoov- chronicled, yet improved shot selection, Jamal- % not his friend). Could there stand to be a slight up tick, in Horford’s case sure, Smoov maybe 2 more shots a game. Otherwise (more) problems ensue.
As for re-signing Joe, I want to say “yes”, but part of me cautions against max money to a player is peaking at the start of the contract. Problem is we have precious few options to replace him salary capwise. I don’t know that it’ll be a bad thing to wait out til the inevitable lockout when player salaries will come under better control and not saddle ourselves with a (very mild) risky contract on a player who is “our” man, not “the” man. Sign him and we’re stuck until Smoov/Duck’s contract’s are up. Let him go and we take a step back, but still have flexibility to make some moves. Decisions, decisions….
RISE UP
P.S.- Anyone else annoyed at the lack of ingenuity on the Falcon’s marketing corps? RISE UP was the Hawks mantra from our 13-win season. I only quote it now as a reminder of what still needs to be done. The Falcons should be in full flight already.
eturn
June 16th, 2010
3:34 pm
Time for Joe to go. He dont seem happy in Atlanta or with the team. And he is not worth Max money. His style of play dont fit the Hawks run oriented game. When they run they win. When Joe start is dribble dribble dribble back you down game. They falter.. See ya Joe, we can use the money on other players.
Some Sense
June 16th, 2010
3:39 pm
Joe is good and all…scorers are, in fact, rare in the league…think about it. But he’s not “Max money” good. Few are – Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kobe, Lebron, Dwyane Wade, and that’s about it.
I, for one, hope we can work a sign-and-trade for Joe.
Dr. Warren
June 16th, 2010
3:41 pm
The key phrase here is “it became apparent he and Jamal Crawford didn’t mesh quite the way…”
Jamal will still be here, but Joe won’t. Expect him to be in Cleveland alongside LeBron.
Ryder
June 16th, 2010
3:41 pm
SWAT Native, I agree with you. He has had three seasons in which to show that he could take his game to another level when it matters. That could be why he couldn’t wait to leave Atlanta.
The saddest part of all this is that some team (New York) will pay him a max contract when he hasn’t earned it. Even if that’s the case, Atlanta will be fine.
How? By bringing back Josh Childress, who will be an ideal replacement. He fits in perfectly with Drew’s up tempo offense and doesn’t need the ball in order to be effective.
Frontman
June 16th, 2010
3:53 pm
The guy either can’t or doesn’t want to get to the rim. I think it’s the latter – he’s soft as he!!. If you want your #1 guy to be soft, line up and tell the Hawks to pays their money.
#1 GT fan
June 16th, 2010
3:53 pm
I am stuck………. I like Joe. But he will have to do what LeBron james will have to do. Joe will have to take a little bit of a pay cut if he wants to win.
I think the Hawks should try to get D-WADE or heck LeBron james. Think about it……. the Hawks can not afford to pay them both big time bucks, but what if you told Joe if you take a pay cut, we will bring LeBron James in with you. Then you tell LeBron the same thing. LeBron already said he would take a pay cut……..
If Joe wants to win, he will either get paid the same, or maybe a little bit more. Lets just hope he stays, and we get somebody to help him.
GO JACKETS!!!!!!!!
(and Hawks and Braves)
#1 GT fan
June 16th, 2010
3:55 pm
HAHA agree with you Dr. Warren. Except i hope it will be Atlanta
Mark Bradley
June 16th, 2010
3:58 pm
I think Joe will stay because the Hawks can pay him more than any other team.
bob
June 16th, 2010
3:59 pm
It depends on what LeBron tells Joe to do at the big Summit. Didn’t they tear that place down?
eturn
June 16th, 2010
4:01 pm
LOL and why didnt Joe and Jamal mesh…probably because Jamal was shooting just as good as Joe at times. And could also drive to the basket..something Joe refused to do or couldnt do.. I hear ya Dr
leland
June 16th, 2010
4:02 pm
Funny you should ax. He told me he wasn’t no eleemosynary institution and that’s that. Is what he said.
Tim
June 16th, 2010
4:17 pm
The status of the Hawks franchise summed up perfecto here: http://TwitPWR.com/KID/
John
June 16th, 2010
4:21 pm
Joe is not coming back to the hawks he knows being with the hawks he will not compete for a title he will be in New York with Chris Bosh or in Miami with Dwayne Wade.
Ken Strickland
June 16th, 2010
4:23 pm
If you’ve read or heard of JJ’s exploits during high school and college, you’d know he has a tremendous amount of pride. That pride, coupled with his desire to win, and Woodson’s removal, just might persuade him to resign. How many times during the last 2 seasons did we hear the normally quiet and reserve JJ make public comments after gms, along with AHorford, that showed their frustration with teammates and the teams overall lack of performance?
I think there will be a price range, or approximate dollar figure, that he’ll accept to resign with the Hawks. Regardless of what kind of OFF LDrew installs, JJ will still be the focal point of that OFF, at least as far as DEF’s are concerned. My take on what LDrew was saying to JJ, was he expects the same level of production, but in his new OFF system, he expects him to accomplish it more efficiently, with less effort, and within the confines of the OFF.
I DON’T SEE HOW THAT CAN POSE AN ISSUE FOR HIM. The fact is, JJ is far more dangerous without the ball than he is with it, because of his shooting range, ball handling, post up and passing ability. Teams aren’t allowed to double team any player unless he has the ball, but under no circumstances will they be able to slack off on him just because he doesn’t have the ball. We all saw how teams double and triple teamed him in the past when he had the ball.
As far as JChildress is concerned, it’s obvious he wants back into the NBA, otherwise why make annual inquires with NBA teams. Anyone that says he’s not worth a certain amount of money, after what we’ve paid Bibby, and paid Marvin this past season, and the collective results we got in return, needs to take a reality pill.
With Woodson gone, getting Chills back just might require little more than an olive branch from RSund. A starting lineup of C-AHorford, PF-JSmith, SF-JChildress, SG-JJohnson and PG-JTeague would be solid as a rock on both ends of the court. A bench of MWilliams, ZPachulia, MBibby, MEvans, JCrawford, another Big and our draft pick, or our draft pick(if a Big) and another PG, or PG/SG combo, would be deep, talented and versatile.
Doug
June 16th, 2010
4:25 pm
Grandad: You saying a comment is inane doesn’t make it so> Yes he is overrated…yes he requires a high volume of touches-shots to be effective. And yes he is on the downside of a good career. Those along with his total disappearance during the playoffs and his absolute absence of any leadership qualities make it a really bad business decision to give him max money. You don’t want to lose him for nothing…ipso facto, the best solution is get value in return by a sign-trade. Or you can commit a superstar portion of the payroll for a non-superstar that is trending down
WiltonParmeter
June 16th, 2010
4:26 pm
I know that Joe Johnsons attitude SUCKED the minute we brought in Jamal Crawford. As Jamal kept getting a whole ton of success and kept making clutch shots, I think Joe became jealous of Jamal and felt that Jamal was stealing the spotlight from him and that Joe was no longer the best player on the team. Joe didnt like to defer to Jamal and so Joe decided he would sulk and pout until the Hawks management signed him to a max deal. Joe shouldnt make MAX MONEY because he is a second tier superstar behind LaBron, Kobe, Chris Bosh, D-Wade, Carmello Anthony, etc. Joe is in the company with Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza, L.O. (Lamor Odom); that group of all-stars. Joe used to be in with the first group of superstars but his skills has eroded and fallen back to hang with the second group. Joe should be paid approximately $15-$16Mil per season, which is what the Hawks have offered. Joe is not worth a penny more than that. If Joe doesnt sign the contract get him out of here and sign a top flight free agent to fill the void caused by Joe leaving.
cdog
June 16th, 2010
4:28 pm
JOE JOHNSON NEED TO RESIGN WITH THE HAWKS.HE CAN BE PART OF THE PAY OFF THAT KNIGHT AND WOODSON STARTED.NOW IF RICK SUND WILL MAKE THE RIGHT ADDITION TO ATTRACT HIM TO STAY, THEN IT WILL GUARANTEE THE HAWKS WILL RISE TO THE NEXT LEVEL.MIAMI OR NEW YORK IS NO PLACE TO REBUILD FROM.BOTH HAVE TOO MANY ISSUES WHICH IF HE WAS TO SIGN WITH EITHER TEAM IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE ANYTHING.THE HAWKS ARE JUST A COUPLE OF BIG MEN AWAY AND HOPEFULLY COACH DREW SHORES UP THE TEAM DEFENSE.THAT WAS THE ONLY WEAKNESS I SAW LAST SEASON.ALSO, COACH DREW NEED TO DEVELOPE THE TEAM’S IDENTITY.THE HAWKS HAVE THE TYPE OF TALENT THAT REQUIRES THEM TO BE UP TEMPOOFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY MORER SO HOPEFULLY THESE ITEMS WILL BE ADDED BY DREW AND SUND.
eturn
June 16th, 2010
4:33 pm
Yep Wilton you see what I was talking about….Oh and Tim interesting article
atownhawk23
June 16th, 2010
4:41 pm
THIS IS SO HILARIOUS.
JJ SHOULD STAY.
#TEAMJOE
atownhawk23
June 16th, 2010
4:45 pm
BTW DON’T LIKE HAWKS FANS. You people are so negative, and that’s why the Hawks organization isn’t fan friendly.
Heck, I would’ve took a shot at the Hawks fans(BANDWAGONS) too.
Another thing why do you people care about what he said about the fans, and I bet like 75% of y’all weren’t at the games and I was there most of the season.
Dukester9
June 16th, 2010
5:17 pm
Sign and trade JOE and Marvin/Bibby/Chills contract/Mo evans which ever they want in that order. Trade them to Philly for Andre Iguodala and Sam Dalembert. Get it done Sund!!!
WilliamThunderchief
June 16th, 2010
5:19 pm
Joe Johnson took a page out of Mike Vicks book on how to treat the fans. Remember the incident where Vick was walking off the field and sauluted his adoring fans by giving them the fingers with both hands. Thats if to say f- you, I dont care about you, as long as I get paid, who cares about you. Well Joe Johnson did the same thing the other day when the Hawks got shalacked by the Orlando Magic. The Hawks were embarrased and were throroughly beaten so badly (setting a record for most points beaten in a 4-game sweep) that when Joe Johnson walked off the court and was interviewed, Joe said, so what, I dont care if the fans come or not. This is the exact same attitute that Mike Vick had the day Vick played poorly and walked off the field spitting venom. Now Joe Johnson had done the exact same thing and has left a bad taste in the mouths of the fans. And guess what, you knew Joe wasnt going to come back the next day and do the right thing by saying, “I apologize to the fans for making that statement, I was upset that the Magic had beat us to a pulp and I was too emotional to interview.” The fans would have forgiven him for saying that, but instead Joe says nothing because he is too prideful, but yet he wants to be paid the highest salary in the history of sports. Joe Johnson needs to get a life and retire from professional basketball. Weve seen this same song and dance with Mike Vick before and it ended up putting Vick in jail. Lets hope the same thing doesnt happen to Joe Johnson.
i_am_soulstar
June 16th, 2010
5:22 pm
If we didn’t already have Joe, my guess is most fans would be begging to get him in a Hawks jersey. Hey, you never know what you got til it’s gone. Hopefully we won’t have to find out the hard way (although I’m totally against giving him a max contract).
Hawks Fan
June 16th, 2010
5:48 pm
I don’t believe Joe Johnson wants to come back to the Hawks nor do I believe he should come back, we need to move on. The owners and Billy Knight were suckers for Phoenix when they knew Joe Johnson didn’t want to be there and the Hawks gave everything but the kitchen sink for his services and what does Joe Johnson do during the awful second round of the playoffs, he throws the fans under the bus, not his play or the team’s play but the fans. The hawks ownership has shown over the last few days and weeks that they are cheap as hell, what makes you think they are going to pay Joe Johnson max money or any money because the have none!!!
JeJe
June 16th, 2010
6:18 pm
Making a JJ comparison to KG/PP/R.A is useless because they all COMPLEMENT each other. They are all STARS. We have Joe and a bunch of disorganized tweeners
FIRE WOODY
Mystikal
June 16th, 2010
6:19 pm
MB, what do you think about this article?
Typically teams don’t like to trade within their conference (let alone their division), but the Hawks and Bobcats seem like natural business partners. The Hawks need a legit 7-footer who can start at center and allow Horford to move to power forward, and the Bobcats have Tyson Chandler (reportedly considering opting out of his $12 million deal). The Bobcats could use a veteran point guard and clutch shooter, and the Hawks have Bibby, who’s also a Jordan Brand guy. And if the Hawks feel Teague isn’t ready and want a better option at PG, the Bobcats have Ray Felton ready for a sign-and-trade. Don’t be surprised if Atlanta and Charlotte spend a lot of time on the phone this summer.
Mark Bradley
June 16th, 2010
6:21 pm
The Bobcats would make that trade — Chandler for Horford — in a second. The Hawks would not, Mystikal.
John
June 16th, 2010
6:56 pm
The Hawks need to find a trade partner so they can get rid of Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams & Mo Evans.
ryan
June 16th, 2010
7:16 pm
Why not try this have a sign and trade Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams to the Suns for Amare Stoudamire and then sign Ray Allen it wont happen but why not.
Mark Bradley
June 16th, 2010
7:17 pm
You get older that way, ryan. NBA people are also leery of Stoudemire’s knees.
Joes gone!
June 16th, 2010
7:46 pm
I think Joe realizes hes just pissing in the wind with this organization thats not committed to winning so why waste his time. It clear that the Hawks need a center and rather than get one management including sundofabytch is trying to convince people that Horford is the answer better yet its like the ajc trying to convince us that all the illegal aliens that have move to gwinnett is making it an international city…ha, it a welfare dependent slave labor provide. drug smuggling extension of mexico. What diversity, those are illegal aliens 95% are from mexico
Grandad
June 16th, 2010
8:05 pm
Doug:
*ipso – facto*
I give up. You win.
clutch
June 16th, 2010
8:51 pm
anybody who wants joe to leave is crazy. so he leaves and you replace him with who? whats also crazy is that people hear were complaing before that he passes to much now they are saying he doesnt. look he was and is the best player on the team, period. the plays were called for him to be in iso. thats on the coach bottom line. and who was he going to pass it to, hortford? if you say that your insain. howard had hortford playing like a baby.
Mystikal
June 16th, 2010
9:33 pm
The hawks will get over the hump when ownership is prepared to really invest in the team. In business you have to spend money to make money, while in this arena sometimes you have to take calculated risks. In the draft we always wait to see who falls to us instead of making moves to get who we want. In free agency, we wait til last minute and let market decide what someone is worth and then often end up gettin left overs. And although I think Drew is a good choice, we just took the cheapest coaching option. If there was a way penny pinching could get you championships I’m sure someone would have written a book by now.
Tdot
June 16th, 2010
10:46 pm
I have a feeling that 99.9% of you were not Hawks fans until they started this playoff run the last few years…Point being, ATL sucked for like a decade and I think they will go back to piss-poor play if Joe leaves because he was the one player other teams had to gameplan for…He IS their best player, so if he was to leave, there won’t be a replacement, and HIS money can’t be used to sign another player…I don’t know why ppl keep saying sign this player or that player, ATL ain’t got the money for a Bosh or any other free agent…ATL needs Joe, Joe doesn’t need ATL, so they need to do all they can to make sure he stays in a Hawk jersey…Joe is the best thing ATL has and I can’t believe ppl want him to go…Imagine the Hawks without Joe, lol….A 30 win team…Peace…
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11:55 pm
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Big Ray
June 17th, 2010
7:06 am
Iso-Joe has never really been the issue. Iso-Hawks has….
I think Joe has learned his lesson since he left Phoenix.
If Joe is frustrated with his teammates, I don’t blame him. A “loose and fun practice atmosphere” did nothing to help the seriousness in the locker room. Sorry, but what young cats learn when they first come in the business is what they always go back to.
G-Money
June 17th, 2010
8:19 am
It is inappropriate to compare him to Garnett, Pierce, and Allen because Atlanta seems to be missing the other two components. Until the Hawks bring in a Garnett and Allen, comparisons are inaccurate. Joe Johnson to the best of my recollection never verbally stated that he must have the most touches or shots, I think one needs to look at the lack of producers he was teamed with, also the fact that he is probably going to end up on a team with another high profile player should tell you that he does not mind sharing the ball.
WilliamThunderchief
June 17th, 2010
9:53 am
As I have said many times before, the Hawks in no way should trade Al Horford. In about two years, and I know that this will happen based on Al’s improvement from last year, Al Horford is on tract to become every bit as good as Wilt Chamberlain was in his prime. I believe Al Horford will be the best player in the NBA in approximately two years if he continues the same development plan that he has been on. He is already unstoppable if the Hawks were smart enough to go to him on a regular basis.
David Stern
June 17th, 2010
9:57 am
I’m rich regardless!
rusty
June 17th, 2010
11:06 am
joe is a choker & a ball hog. his main concern is to score a lot of points. he definitely is not in ppierce class. he is soft
huh!
June 17th, 2010
7:25 pm
^Not true
NO MORE JOE
June 18th, 2010
9:45 pm
NO MORE JOE
hawks fan
June 19th, 2010
6:54 am
i want joe to stay but it seems unlikely that wil happen so we should draft jordan crawford
pdiddy
June 20th, 2010
1:50 am
Mark,
why won’t the hawks make the trade of horford for chandler? they obviously need a proven presence in the middle to create problems for other teams offensively and defensively. i love al but he is not a center. we can always get him back at a later date. joe needs help to score. it is totally unfair to expect him to carry a team when he is constantly being doubled and triple teamed during the playoffs.. the great teams will play defense first and offense second. this past season we seemed to play neither one consistently. also, for all the fair weather fans who jump on and off the bandwagon for hawks, falcons and braves……..go back to wherever you came from……we already had enough fickle fans before you got here. joe made his comments because he thought there were knowledgeable basketball fans in the stands who could see and understand what was going on during games. obviously, he was wrong. joe is only human but he allowed his frustration to show publicly. he seems to be a sensitive guy in addition to a great athlete. many people have forgotten how well he played with a true point guard, a legit big man and other shooters around him in Phoenix. he was also picked for the Olympics along with the others. a true sign of an athlete’s value and worth is how other athletes view him or her. looks like the other guys value him as an athlete. maybe we should do more appreciating and less complaining.
Gamer
June 20th, 2010
4:09 pm
With Ray Allen aging but he’s not slowing down too much and he’s definitely haven’t loss much touch on his jump shot..I think Joe Johnson would be an excellent addition to Celtics back-court..
Atheletes live in a tough business world and they must look-out for their own best interest.