Why Jason Heyward (baseball) isn’t Jeff Francoeur (football)
Jason Heyward rounds third after his Opening Day homer. (AJC photo by Phil Skinner)
Both were first-round draft picks from the Atlanta suburbs, both right fielders. Both hit home runs in their first big-league games, each against the Cubs. Both were given the Sports Illustrated treatment in the early days of their rookie seasons. But if you ask in the Braves’ clubhouse about further similarities between Jeff Francoeur and Jason Heyward, you won’t find many.
What you’ll hear instead is an admission of a key difference: That one was a football player, while the other is a baseball player.
The intent isn’t to belittle Francoeur, who had three good-to-excellent seasons as a Brave. He hit .300 as a rookie in 2005 and drove in more than 100 runs in 2006 and 2007. But when his early blush of success faded, it spawned a full-blown backlash fueled by a fundamental flaw: Francoeur swung at everything, and when in doubt he swung harder.
That was the football player in him. (Again, we must stipulate: Francoeur was a great high school football player.) A football player believes nothing can’t be fixed by sheer effort. It’s one of the reasons that oft-cited criticism of the Braves in postseason — that they weren’t “emotional enough” — was such a canard. Untrammeled emotion in baseball doesn’t make you Joe DiMaggio; it makes you an easy out.
Baseball is a game of skill and precision, not strength and mass. It’s noteworthy that Heyward, who grew up in a football state, never played the sport. (According to Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports, Heyward’s dad wouldn’t let him.) And here we come to the fundamental difference between the two: Francoeur, who’s a bright guy, always seemed to fall back on raw talent no matter how many coaches he consulted, while Heyward has fused a happier amalgam of ability and analysis.
Jeff Francoeur belts his debut homer. (AP photo)
I saw Francoeur in a playoff doubleheader at Parkview High. He swung at the first pitch five times. He went 1-for-7, the hit being a home run. We contrast this with Heyward, who while playing for Henry County High often left scouts disappointed because he walked too much. In his SI story, Tom Verducci quotes an unnamed Cleveland official — the Indians owned the 13th pick in the 2007 draft, one ahead of the Braves — as saying, “We didn’t see him swing the bat enough to feel comfortable taking him that high.”
It took Francoeur 128 big-league plate appearances to draw a walk; it took Heyward 16. In 70 games as a rookie, Francoeur walked 11 times; in 40 games, Heyward has walked 25 times. One was all exuberance (sometimes irrational); the other is patience personified.
As John Perrotto noted in Baseball Prospectus, when Heyward hit .103 over from Games 11 through 20 the Braves advised him “to be more aggressive early in the count and consider swinging at more first pitches.“ This from the same voices — Bobby Cox and Terry Pendleton — who could never convince Francoeur not to swing so early and so often.
Which only goes to show: A manager or a coach can talk until the cows come home, but it’s difficult for a player to change who he is. Yogi Berra swung at lousy pitches but was good enough to hit them. Ted Williams never had a 200-hit season — Ichiro Suzuki has never not had a 200-hit season — because he refused to swing at anything that wasn’t a strike. (Rule No. 1 in Williams’ “The Science of Hitting”: “Get a good pitch to hit.”)
What worked for Francoeur worked well enough for Sports Illustrated to dub him “The Natural,” but then it stopped working. He’s hitting .219 for the Mets, and his on-base percentage is a lamentable .278. As the ballpark bromide goes: Talent can get you to the majors, but talent alone won’t keep you there. You have to keep adjusting, keep thinking.
As well as Heyward plays the game, he thinks it even better. Last month he walked by Pendleton en route to the batting cage, and the hitting coach asked if, seeing as how Colorado lefthander was that day’s starter, Heyward would like a lefthander to throw to him. “No,” he said. “The last time I hit against a lefty [in BP], I went 0-for-3.”
Five hours later, Jason Heyward came to bat with two out in the ninth inning. He took the first four pitches. Then he won the game with an opposite-field single. Jeff Francoeur might well have won the same game — he had some big hits, let’s remember — but he wouldn’t have won it the same way.
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217 comments Add your comment
Me
May 26th, 2010
10:57 am
First
Rimfire
May 26th, 2010
11:01 am
Touche’
As much as I/we wanted Jeff to succeed. I’m positively giddy watching J Hey at the plate!
Hope he continues to progress. Vote him into the All Star game folks.
John
May 26th, 2010
11:01 am
Yeah and you’re no Jim Murray. Blah, blah blah blah blah
Me
May 26th, 2010
11:02 am
It’s quite the contrast between the two players. I wonder if Francoeur will hang it up and go play for Clemson. If Chris Weinke can do it at 28, why can’t Frenchy?
Reid Adair
May 26th, 2010
11:03 am
Jason Heyward is an incredibly talented player. He has obviously been willing to listen and learn from people who have been there to help him … and he’s still doing that today.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
11:03 am
Kudos to you, Me.
Melky way
May 26th, 2010
11:09 am
SECOND ! I still wished the the Braves had held on to Francour.And at Least not traded him to the Mutts,and we got nothing for him!
Andy
May 26th, 2010
11:12 am
Looks like Frenchy is coming back down to earth after his late season success with the Mets last year. He’s only hitting .219 but does have 25 RBI which is respectable. It looks like he is heading towards his typical 12-15 homers and 70-80 RBI season. It’s not bad…it’s just not very good. I think he will become a 4th outfielder in the not too distant future moving from team to team each year. By the end of his career he will have amassed decent numbers but just not enough to justify his early hype.
Ron Mexico
May 26th, 2010
11:20 am
Thats cause he wasn’t worth anything at that point, Melky. You are probably worth more in a trade than he is. Heyward is the man!
F-105 Thunderchief
May 26th, 2010
11:21 am
Brilliant analysis. The outfielder with the linebacker build has the true feel for and knowledge of the game.
clay
May 26th, 2010
11:25 am
every vote counts vote Heyward and Prado for the allstart game.
Roja
May 26th, 2010
11:25 am
Didn’t take long to turn on Frenchy. If Heyward’s average drops below .235, you will turn on him too.
myra
May 26th, 2010
11:25 am
Thank you Mark for this perspective. It does open my mind as to why the Braves traded him. We fell in love with Frenchy as fans because we thought he was the future, just as we have fallen in love with Jason.
Rookies can do this to you.
I still hope for an outfield of Francoeur,Schaffer,Heyward. It is a dream of mine.
Thank goodness for J-Hey.
Still pullin for Frenchy.
clay
May 26th, 2010
11:25 am
*allstar
George Foreman 3:16
May 26th, 2010
11:25 am
Bradley gushing over Heyward is not a good sign it portends a great fall….
The Dogfighter Returns
May 26th, 2010
11:26 am
Way to kick a man when he is down Mark. This praise of Heyward needs to cease. Everyone at the AJC is on his jock. He is not the only brave on the team. Please cover something else.
It is so easy to write a blog about him.
Jeff is trying his best. Not every player becomes good. He is doing what he can, the only way he knows how. He is trying his best.
I hope you feel great about demeaning Jeff’s ability in order to cash your paycheck today.
DP
May 26th, 2010
11:27 am
The book by Ted Williams (and John Underwood) is “The Science of Hitting”, not “The Art of Hitting”, which is by Tony Gwynn (Williams wrote the foreword in that one).
Apparently the Cleveland scout who didn’t see Heyward swing enough did not believe in the Ted Williams approach to hitting.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
11:28 am
Thanks, DP. Sorry for the mistake.
DollarDawg43
May 26th, 2010
11:29 am
To his credit Francoeur has (to my knowledge) never griped about the trade to NY and has maintained the right attitude about things so I wish him nothing but the best but I believe the Braves have the better baseball player in Heyward.
MB hit the nail on the head on this one: an agressive nature is not always the best thing for a baseball player. Heyward is “patiently agressive” and “intelligently agressive”. It seems like such a small thing but it makes a huge difference.
Howard
May 26th, 2010
11:31 am
Regardless of what folks think of Francoeur and his present MLB travails, nothing can take away from him the fact that he was one of the best high school football players I ever saw. He would have been unreal in the college ranks and NFL. He wouldn’t have stayed at Clemson very long…he would have been like a man playing with kids there. But alas, NFL folks’ loss.
Joey
May 26th, 2010
11:33 am
Our #3 hitter can only dream about having 25 RBI right now . . .
dap01
May 26th, 2010
11:33 am
The difference is we care about Jason and could not care less about Jeff. Let’s move on…..
Marvin Mangrum
May 26th, 2010
11:33 am
Mark, that article was so exciting I read it twice. Thank you!
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
11:34 am
He’s the best high school football player I’ve seen since I’ve lived in Georgia, Howard. And I moved here in 1984.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
11:36 am
Wow, Marvin Mangrum. I didn’t even read it twice. And I kind of wrote the thing.
extremus
May 26th, 2010
11:36 am
I hated to see the decline of Francoeur as a Brave, as from what I’ve heard he was a great guy and positive clubhouse presence, and he did initially give Atlanta fans quite a few really good memories. When Heyward hit that home run in his first MLB at-bat against the Cubs, my celebration was tempered by a concern that he too would succomb to trying to do so every time up at the plate.
Since then I’ve seen enough to know that Heyward won’t get the miraculous, game-winning hit or home run every single time, but then no other player ever has; they’re all human. But I’ve also seen enough to be convinced that Jason Heyward has a much more cerebral, patient approach to hitting than any player his age (and a whole lot who are much older) I’ve ever seen. I think he will be a very special player if he remains healthy, and I sincerely hope that we’ll get to see him do so in a Braves uniform throughout his entire career.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
11:37 am
Francoeur was and is a fine fellow, extremus.
OSCAR
May 26th, 2010
11:37 am
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
PMC
May 26th, 2010
11:39 am
Francouer is a better fit for the Mets than he was here. He’s still got one of the best arms in baseball and they have a cavernous outfield field. He also doesn’t have to be counted on as one of the most important pieces in thier offense so if he’s spray and pray it’s less of a concern. For the life of me I don’t understand why people still test his arm.
This Braves team is just such a poor run scoring team that his problems were magnified especially since he was the golden boy and had all sorts of ancillary sponsorships.
Heyward is a far better overall baseball player and more diciplined hitter. He fits better with the Braves for what they do.
The Braves are still a team in transition with a lot of holes to fill offensively.
GPB
May 26th, 2010
11:39 am
Let’s wait two years on Heyward. Frenchy was solid for a couple years and then tanked. While I doubt Jason will do the same, let’s just be patient.
Tweets that mention Why Jason Heyward (baseball) isn't Jeff Francoeur (football) | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
May 26th, 2010
11:40 am
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, Football Hour. Football Hour said: [UK] Why Jason Heyward (baseball) isn't Jeff Francoeur (football): Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog… http://bit.ly/d2pmQu #football #UK [...]
.
May 26th, 2010
11:42 am
Preach on Brother! Preach on!…J-Hey’s the real deal.
PoliticalMan
May 26th, 2010
11:43 am
This is a surprising column after Heyward’s 40 games. I hope you keep it pinned to your cork board just in case you might want to revise anything down the road.
Ben
May 26th, 2010
11:45 am
Excellent article. Heyward understands that the first priority as a hitter is to not make an out. Francouer never understood (or could never apply) this basic concept.
Heyward has far better control of the strike zone at 20 than most veteran hitters ever develop. He’s truly a special player not only because he can swing the bat but because he knows when to do so.
Paddy
May 26th, 2010
11:45 am
Me…don’t see Frenchy going to Clemson or any other university. You can’t make 2-3 Million on a college campus playing football. He will run out the string on baseball, and be set for life. Then collect his max pension of about $75,000 per year later on. The tv on Sat is as close as he gets to football.
Chris
May 26th, 2010
11:46 am
It’s a good analysis Mark. He does think like a football player first and the prevailing mentality is that ‘everything can be overcome by sheer effort’ especially on the defensive side of the ball. I believe he was a safety/rover/bandit defensive player at Parkview.
If he does struggle for another year or two, I like the previous blogger’s comparison to Chris Weinke who started at FSU when he was 42 years old.
Mr. Obvious
May 26th, 2010
11:47 am
Jason Heyward was raised with humility, intelligence, appreciation for education, a good work ethic, strong social values, patience, respect for the game, respect for one’s elders to go not let one’s ego get inflated by the fleeting adoration of the public and media.
Jeff Francoeur? Not so much.
In layman’s terms:
Jason Heyward (2010) = The “Mark Bradley” of the Braves.
Jeff Francoeur (2009) = The “Jeff Schultz” of the Braves.
boots
May 26th, 2010
11:48 am
I know the article is not intended to criticize Francouer, but I, for one, am tired of all the Frenchy bashing. He is a solid guy and one of the best athletes that has come out of Georgia in some time. I have had a chance to meet him and talk to him with my son, and there is not a better illustration of what a pro athlete should be. I hope he gets it going, and I hope he is appreciated for what he has given to the city. We are all too quick to forget what is really important.
Steve
May 26th, 2010
11:49 am
You can’t even compare these two guys! Frenchy is just a gifted raw athlete and his raw talent got him to the big leagues. I think even if he would have went the football route he would have had a shot at the NFL. J-Hey on the other hand is just a baseball prodigy. He is a gifted and talented baseball player. One that comes around every so many years. I am just glad that we have him on our team for hopefully many years to come!
Clint
May 26th, 2010
11:52 am
Really a great read.
If Atlanta fans are as true as I hope they are, they’ll vote like crazy to get Heyward in the All-Star game. He deserves it and then some.
Steve
May 26th, 2010
11:52 am
I only wish the best for Jeff and I agree with Boots he doesn’t derserve to be bashed by his hometown. I was there the night he hit his first homerun and I can tell you it was emotional and special. It was something that I will always remember and it was a night that felt like the WS win in 1995. Jeff is a great guy and gifted athlete and I only wish him the best.
chin music
May 26th, 2010
11:54 am
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/heyward-and-greatness/
Clint
May 26th, 2010
11:54 am
Boots, what did Francoeur ‘give’ Atlanta?
Dawgdad (the original)
May 26th, 2010
12:00 pm
Never saw Frenchy play football, but I will take the word of some of the bloggers about how great he was in HS, however, there is a big jump to college, and an even bigger jump to the pros. Never seen the speed in Jeff to make me think he could be a safety in the NFL, maybe a linebacker, but he would need to add some bulk. He is a great guy and I hope him success, but I believe he made the right decision to choose baseball. I did see him play HS baseball and he was awesome.
Heyward looks outstanding, but time will settle where he ranks, no need to get so giddy at this point. Lots and lots of players have sophmore problems and never fully recover. I think he will adjust and continue to progress due to his good attitude and ability, but no one knows for sure.
DP
May 26th, 2010
12:06 pm
I don’t think the difference between Heyward and Francouer is all or even primarily a baseball versus football mentality. I think Heyward is just much more talented as a baseball player. He has the ability to pick up a pitch more quickly out of the pitcher’s hand than Francouer, which is why he rarely swings at neck high fastballs and sliders in the dirt like Francouer does. Heyward also has a much more powerful swing. And he has a much better idea of what the pitcher is trying to do and consequently makes better adjustments during and between at-bats. Wait until Heyward has been around the league a couple of times and seen all the pitchers. I think he’ll start hammering more of those first pitch strikes that he has been taking.
An Adult
May 26th, 2010
12:07 pm
ME… congrats, you’re first in something for the first time in your life…. by the way, get a life
Travelling Dawg
May 26th, 2010
12:09 pm
I grew up with Jeff, though I was a year ahead of him at Parkview. I played on his first T-ball team. He was WAY more talented than everybody else, even as a 4 year old. He hit absolute BOMBS. I hated to see him leave Atlanta. That said…when it came time to trade him, I COMPLETELY understood. MLB is a BUSINESS first. The aim of any team is winning games. And you can’t refute this fact: from the time Jeff was called up, to the time he was traded, he made more OUTS than any other player in the majors. He just couldn’t seem to quit guessing and hacking. I hope for the best for him, but if Heyward’s start is any indication, the Braves made the right move. Maybe Jeff can get it together…and by then maybe we’ll need a LF. But the Braves’ RF spot is tied up for the next 10+ years.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:10 pm
Mark,
You seriously think Jeff was the “best high school football player you’ve ever seen since 1984″
just out of my own sick curiosity, who else ranks up there in the high graces of Mean Mark Bradley?
#7
May 26th, 2010
12:14 pm
Bring Jeff back to Atlanta !! He can play Center !
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
12:15 pm
Let me point out, Mr. Kilmer, that I didn’t see every Georgia high school player over the last 25 years. But I did see Eric Zeier, Reggie Brown, Takeo Spikes, Cosey Coleman, Jamal Lewis, Deon Grant, Derrick Steagall and Quincy Carter.
RHR
May 26th, 2010
12:16 pm
Francoeur, who’s a bright guy,
He is?
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:19 pm
Howard,
You’re so sure that Jeff would have made the NFL just because he could dominate in the gridiron in high school?
Talent at Brookwood, South Gwinnett and Berkmar isn’t exactly the same as talent in the ACC, and especially not talent like the NFL.
gtg437w
May 26th, 2010
12:19 pm
Jeff gave a lot to the franchise, mainly hope. He came in with McCann and brought a lot of young fans to the games- his jerseys sold everywhere even when he was in a slump… I was there at his first game when he hit the homer and got a standing ovation, talk about an inspirational time to be a braves fan and it’s amazing how quickly Atlanta “fans” forget, we really are the worst city for pro-sports. As for the J-Hey Kid, I wish him the best of luck, I’d love to see his success as a brave but want to wait to see his sophomore season before he’s proclaimed the savior of the braves franchise
thebest?
May 26th, 2010
12:20 pm
MB how many high school football players have you seen? I’m not trying to say that he was a bad football player but like you said since 1984 im pretty sure there have been a few better football players who were better than Jeff.
gobraves
May 26th, 2010
12:21 pm
Dawgdad,
Frenchy was a QB in HS, why would he be trying to play safety or LB? You dumb@$$
Tweets that mention Why Jason Heyward (baseball) isn't Jeff Francoeur (football) | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
May 26th, 2010
12:22 pm
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, ajc sports editor. ajc sports editor said: Mark Bradley has a good column on why Braves RF Jason Heyward is no ex-Braves RF Jeff Francoeur re: baseball approach http://bit.ly/cXwRgC [...]
someone
May 26th, 2010
12:23 pm
MB you think Jeff is better football player than Rennie Curran?
someone
May 26th, 2010
12:24 pm
MB you think Jeff is better than lets say a Rennie Curran?
KJ
May 26th, 2010
12:25 pm
I had the opportunity to meet Jason Heyward when he was a junior in high school. He was a very respectful and humble despite all the attention being lavished on him at the dinner. He used sir and maam when addressing his elders. I think the other point of the article is that these are two fine people who are a credit to our society no matter what happens with their baseball careers.
Smoltzfan
May 26th, 2010
12:25 pm
Is it too late for an NFL audition? A la Brian Jordan, Deion Sanders?
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
12:26 pm
Didn’t see Rennie Curran play in high school. But let me note that Francoeur not only played but worked essentially every down — as a junior, he had almost the same number of touchdown receptions as interceptions and averaged nearly one a game of each.
Thinker
May 26th, 2010
12:29 pm
You know, Frenchy’s still only 26. He can turn it around. Phil Niekro wasn’t even in the show at that age, and he’s in the HOF.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:32 pm
Rod Perrymond, the Bailey brothers, Dwight Dasher, Brett Millican, Darius Walker.
the best ever might be a stretch.
Don’t let yourself get caught up in the local legend hype of French. You’re better than that.
He was a great high school player, in both sports, but I would be hard pressed to call him the greatest in either sport.
Just like Travelling Dawg stated, he was always more talented than other people, and talent got him that local lengend status. But when the big league stuff gets nasty and you see a filty slider night after night, that talent gets put to bed real quick. Which is why he’s hitting a hefty .219 rigth now. The talent of everyone else finally caught up to him.
It’s not like Lassiter High School where he gets a fastball down main street or a hanging high school breaking ball. (the stuff legends are made out of)
DP
May 26th, 2010
12:32 pm
gtg437w, Atlanta fans are the worst because they weighted 2-3 years of complete futility by Francouer more heavily than the thrill he provided with the home run in his first game? Should that home run have earned him a lifetime pass? How long do you think it would have taken the fans in Boston or New York to start booing him? I suspect we’ll find out soon about New York fans if they’re not booing him already.
Had Francouer not been a local white kid that the Braves wanted to market as the face of the franchise I suspect he’d have lost his everyday right field job a lot sooner. Yunel Escobar had a very good year last year. Do you think he will still be the Braves shortstop 2 years from now if his hitting stats are near the bottom for major league shortstops?
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:33 pm
hey Thinker….Niekro was a pitcher, and a knuckler-baller at that…he had a shelf life of 20 years.
French won’t be roaming any outfield at age 46 unless he’s playing in the North Metro Baptist softball league.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
I saw Brett Millican, FYI. Against Forest Park in a playoff game.
And I did not say he was the greatest football player ever. I said he was the best I’ve seen in Georgia.
Tomahawk
May 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
“Baseball is a game of skill and precision, not strength and mass.” …….true statement…so does that mean we should give more credit to Barry Bonds?
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
GoBraves…..you’re certain he was a QB in high school?
)
Cathy
May 26th, 2010
12:35 pm
I’ve often wondered if Francoeur would have fared better, playing for Clemson, for just the reason you mentioned. He’s always on the attack, which is fine for football. Not so much a plus when you need to generate runs. BTW, Francoeur’s a great guy, but he’s PAID to be a great baseball player. Hayward’s earned his position. He certainly deserves that All-Star bonus!
??????
May 26th, 2010
12:36 pm
“Why Jason Heyward (baseball) isn’t Jeff Francoeur (football)”
Heyward is black. Francoeur is white.
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
12:36 pm
Pretty sure Francoeur was not a quarterback in high school. I believe Clint Sammons was the quarterback. I believe Clint Sammons also plays baseball.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:37 pm
If 14 TD catches along with 15 INTs makes you the best you’ve ever seen in Georgia, then I would say you need to get out more.
Makes you great, but the best you’ve seen in Georgia?
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
12:37 pm
Barry Bonds is kind of a case study: He was a great hitter when he was skinny.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:39 pm
Was Clint Sammons the 2nd best quarterback you’ve ever seen?
I know he wasn’t a QB Mark, just wanted to make GoBraves look like an idiot, but I’m pretty sure he did that well enough on his own.
Smoltzfan
May 26th, 2010
12:40 pm
Hey Bud K, when’d the circus come to town? I didn’t see any trucks…..
PMC
May 26th, 2010
12:41 pm
What makes Francouer the best high school football player you have seen Mark?
There are hundreds of great football players in this state. I’m hard pressed to find a best.
Champ Bailey? Takeo Spikes… Charlie Ward… Eric Zeier…. that’s just a few why is Francouer better than them?
gwtvol85
May 26th, 2010
12:42 pm
Well written article, Mark. I use to watch Friday night football games on CSS — still do — occassionally and I remember watching Francouer play for Parkview. He was a natural at DB with his combination of speed and rangy athletic ability. His senior year opponents RARELY through in his direction. He received scholly offers from many schools and, as I recall, committed to play football for Clemson. However, the lure of MLB money called and he never suited up for the Tigers. I remember thinking as I watched several Parkview football games which were broadcast his senior year that he might be the best high school player I had ever seen. Yes, including everyone’s beloved Bulldog from Johnson Co. Francouer never seemed to be out of position and played with a fluid, under control style. So the insight that he is more of a football player with a bat and glove rather than the SI proclaimed “Natural”, is on point IMHO. He has loads of athletic ability. No one doubts that. But athletic ability is not always enough. Otherwise Tony Romo would win the U.S. Open.
Matt
May 26th, 2010
12:43 pm
did you expect him to turn down the biggest signing bonus since Andruw Jones?????? He’s a quality individual. Maybe he does go back to play football maybe he doesn’t. If his wife still lives in Gwinnet then maybe he’ll stay home and play for UGA!!!
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:43 pm
Hey SmoltzFan…take y our Dummy-O’s and follow your Dummy-O quarterback.
Oh yall got trick plays?
Your Dummy-O’s cant even run a simple draw play and yall’ve got trick plays. You’re the damn dumbest smart kid I’ve ever met.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:45 pm
hey SmotlzFan….you know who the best high school football player I ever saw was?
Lance Harbor
Stat Man
May 26th, 2010
12:46 pm
SMOLTZ, WHAT ABOUT SMOLTZ?????
I don’t think I’ve seen anything about that pompus a$$ in the AJC for at least a week now…….
Mark
May 26th, 2010
12:47 pm
Ummmmmmmm GoBravesfan. Framcouer was not a QB. Maybe on certain plays but he was a S/WR.
Smoltzfan
May 26th, 2010
12:48 pm
Not anymore, he’s dragging his leg around like a gimp!
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
12:53 pm
Yeah I know. That was all Billy Bob’s fault. He’s real sorry.
But you know what, Jon Moxon did come in and do a heck of a job for the injured Lance Harbor.
Supes
May 26th, 2010
12:53 pm
Mark…
why do you need to resurrect the ghost of JEFF FRANCINE I’ll never know…just ENOUGH.
Move on EVERYONE, at the AJC and Braves fans. We are well rid of HIM.
He had a horrific season, then complained about getting sent down…and then by his own admission QUIT on the team, he said he wanted to be anywhere else but in RF for the Braves? What more do we need to know about this man? Nothing. He is a NY MET now…I don’t wish him bad things but I’m sure as hell glad he’s not on the Braves anymore. What was he with bases loaded that season when he got sent down…something like 2 for 30? Unreal.
Besides his poor attitude of entitlement when he got sent down was the last straw with me as a Braves fan.
Jason Heyward so far appears to have a much superior approach to the art of hitting and playing baseball in general.
Terrence Moore
May 26th, 2010
12:56 pm
why did my post get deleted???? i just got excited about them colord’s on the braves finally.
JTH
May 26th, 2010
1:00 pm
Heywards one-third of a season > Francouer’s 3+ years in terms of contributing to building a winning team and improving as a player..
Heywards career >>>>>>>>>>>> Francouers. That’s a prediction you dont have to be Nostradamus to make.
Woooooooooo!
May 26th, 2010
1:01 pm
Francoeur’s issues aren’t because of a football mentality. Pete Rose played with “sheer effort” more than anyone else, and he was certainly a baseball player. Valdimir Guerrero and Victor Martinez built careers on being very aggressive swingers. Heck, our own Brian Jordan’s success was often attributed to his football experience.
No, Francoeur’s problems aren’t because of a football mentality, it’s because he refused to accept coaching.
JASon
May 26th, 2010
1:02 pm
“Francoeur, who’s a bright guy”
I question this. Lets also not get carried away at the intelligence it takes to play this game: I give you Alex Rodriguez.
ScoreKeeper
May 26th, 2010
1:02 pm
Interesting argument, but I think it’s over-thinking, the football thing, I mean. … Maybe Francoeur was just a big strong kid with a quick bat who succeeded because of his aggressive style, but once pitchers figured him out, he had no answer physically or mentally. Judging the strike zone in a split second requires talent, too. If he’d become more patient, maybe he would’ve walked more and hit less. Not sure Francoeur had the talent to be patient and hit at the same time.
The other thing worth noting is that Francoeur was never as good as Heyward in the first place. Heyward is one of the 5-10 most productive hitters in the NL right now. IMO, Francoeur never had a ”excellent” season. If you’re getting on base only 33 percent of the time (French’s career high) and you’re an outfielder, you’d better hit 45 home runs or you’re not much better than average. Outfielders who play in all 162 games and can’t score more than 84 runs are average.
JTH
May 26th, 2010
1:09 pm
Am I banned from posting or something?
ScoreKeeper
May 26th, 2010
1:10 pm
fyi, Sammons was the QB on the 2000 Parkview team that started the 46-game winning streak. Sammons hit Francoeur with a 70-yard TD pass in the state championship game that year.
jeffrey d
May 26th, 2010
1:12 pm
Francoeur was and is a fine fellow.
But he was upset about being demoted, Mark. According to some people, that makes him the biggest jerk in the world.
DP
May 26th, 2010
1:14 pm
Among 184 major league position players with a qualifying number of at bats, Heyward is #7 in OPS at .992, Francouer is #155 at .653. In OBP, Heyward is #8 at .415 and Francouer is #169 at .278.
Brian from SC
May 26th, 2010
1:17 pm
While I think the football thing is a valid point, the main difference between the two is that Heyward is just flat out more talented, and always has been. Even when Francoeur was a hot prospect, I don’t think any objective scout would have put his offensive ceiling above someone like Reggie Sanders. Heyward, on the other hand…well we’re not quite sure he has a ceiling.
I continue to see the comparisons to Frenchy and Heyward, when really they are so different. I think we were all guilty when Jeff came up of conveniently ignoring the serious holes in his game, and the red flags that his minor league numbers threw up. He had star potential (and he was a star for a while), but never, ever did he have superstar potential. Heyward has HOF kind of potential, and I don’t think you could find any baseball person to disagree with that.
jeffrey d
May 26th, 2010
1:18 pm
If 14 TD catches along with 15 INTs makes you the best you’ve ever seen in Georgia, then I would say you need to get out more.
Bud Kilmer – Francoeur got 15 INTs as a receiver/defender? That’s pretty impressive.
jeffrey d
May 26th, 2010
1:19 pm
Terrence Moore – You spelled your name wrong
All I'm Saying Is...
May 26th, 2010
1:20 pm
Mark:
Good column. I agree with you.
In fact, I was typing similar things last year when Frenchy was with us. I stated that the worst thing that could happen did happen which is that Frenchy swung at the very first pitch he faced in 2009 and hit a home run as a result. I typed then that this home run would only confirm to Frenchy’s hard-headed self that his approach was fine.
Furthermore, I knew he would never make adjustments at the plate because he was not a student of the game and that he would never listen to any hitting instructor because he never thought he needed to or that they knew anything that he didn’t know, and last because he had the aggressive football player mentality and answer for everything: when in doubt, expend more effort (not necessarily use your mind and work smarter).
Long may Jason be a Brave!
LET’S GO BRAVES!
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
1:21 pm
Jeffrey D,
Being upset about being demoted doesn’t make you a jerk. How you handle it determines if you’re a jerk or not.
French refused to go to then Richmond (AAA) because he knew that AAA pitching is just about equal to major league pitching. And if he can’t hit major league pitching (which is why he got sent down) then he would possibly struggle at AAA as well. However, going to AA, he knew there would be a larger difference in the pitching from the bigs to AA.
And yes, him coming out in the media and being a cry-baby about the whole thing didn’t win him over with the fans.
He wasn’t hitting. He couldn’t see that because since he was 4 he has only been the most talented and the best player on the field, but when you get to the bigs, everyone used to be the best on the field in hgih school.
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
1:23 pm
Jeffrey D….imnpressive yes….greatest high school football player in georgia since 1984….I don’t know about that one.
Dr. Warren
May 26th, 2010
1:23 pm
Knox Culpepper played several years ahead of me at my high school, Lovett, then went on to UGA, where he made all-american. He was a monster in high school. Couldn’t cut it with the Giants in training camp, and that was it. Didn’t know Francouer was that good at football, MB. The way you describe his personality and talent, he sounds like Tebow type. Is that apt or overstating it? At what position would he have fit in in the NFL?
Bud Kilmer
May 26th, 2010
1:25 pm
fyi, Jon Moxon hit Charlie Tweeter who flipped the ball to big Billy Bob who ran it in for a touchdown to win me my 23rd district title.
Go Pack!
CW
May 26th, 2010
1:26 pm
MOST HOPEFUL THING IN THIS ARTICLE: Heyward choosing not to take advice from Pendleton.
Nacho Daddy
May 26th, 2010
1:27 pm
Good thing the Indians didn’t draft Hayward, he would soon be a Yankee or Red Sox player.
Cracker Jacket
May 26th, 2010
1:27 pm
Dumb trade to give away Frenchy! The current roster is full of low average hitters this season and nothing is made of the fact! I’m afraid that TP could ruin Heyward!
Joe Stanislau
May 26th, 2010
1:28 pm
To compare Francoeur to Heyward is simple: they play rightfield, they are Atlanta Pipeline athletes, they can hit for power, and they have really great arms in the outfield.
Heyward is a great 5-tool player: hits for power, average, fields, throws, and runs with high skill results. J-Hey is a “blue-moon” talent that will and must be held in Atlanta for his career. The scout(s), and Front Office Executives should feel very smart about drafting a non-pitcher in the 1st round from 2007 and use it in 2010 because we already have an abundance of pitching.
To name several guys on hand in the minors: Julio Teheran, Christhian Betancourt, Craig Kimbrel, Mike Minor, Cory Gearrin, Arodys Vizcaino, and Mike Dunn who are going to be long-term players in Atlanta. As a GM I think the Braves should draft another 3B after signing Edward Salcedo during spring training but Zach Cox (Arkansas) or Jedd Gyorko (West Virginia) would be the 1st round pick I would select as Frank Wren.
scottinkennesaw
May 26th, 2010
1:28 pm
I watched francouer mop up my highschool time and again in both sports he most certainly was one of the most dominating players of the decade in both sports. Ive met him before and I agree he is a very nice guy and fairly bright as well, but his time in Atlanta was done. He no doubt felt pressure to be the hero of Atlanta and just couldn’t do it. I for one hope he turns it around in New York and has a heck of a season…just not against the Braves.
GTSteve
May 26th, 2010
1:29 pm
Does anybody know if the club level seats down the right field side are in the sun or the shade on afternoon games (1:30 pm start). Something in the area of 319-325.
lmno
May 26th, 2010
1:30 pm
Heyward is great now. However, anyone can lose the ability to hit the ball at anytime. Just ask Andruw, or for that matter Chipper.
Brian from SC
May 26th, 2010
1:32 pm
Chipper has hit into just 4 double plays this season, the same number as Prado, and fewer than everyone’s favorite backup, Omar Infante. The one last night was his first one in over 3 weeks.
He’s also hitting .321 with RISP this season.
I agree he’s having a down year, but some of the things people are saying about him are just not true. It is not true that he’s been some kind of DP machine, and it is not true that he has performed poorly in RBI situations.
frank james
May 26th, 2010
1:35 pm
I’m not sure how much Francouer can take advice. I am pulling for him big time because I think he is a good guy and good for the game. He just needs to look at film when he is successful and when he isn’t successful. I’m not hitting coach but with his big swing he has got to load and keep his from hip in. When he does that he is very dangerous.
Andy
May 26th, 2010
1:38 pm
Frenchy could make far more money playing baseball than he could playing football. The contracts are far more lucrative and they are all guaranteed unlike in the NFL where you can be cut at any moment unless you specfically have guaranteed money in your contract. Not even mentioning that you can have a far longer career in baseball than in football. If a guy is a great football prospect and only a very good baseball prospect, they will almost always choose baseball.
Sonny Clusters
May 26th, 2010
1:40 pm
We was reading this in disbelief. When we was first drafted they promised us commercials and fame. We got ahold of Delta as our sponsor and we was able to fly places and sit in first class. Soon, though, we was unable to make contact with the baseball and we was dropped by Delta like a hot potato on a transatlantic flight. We was stunned! Why would they just drop us like that? Well. we wanted to get on with Air Tran Airways and they was all set with Mike Vick. It seems like everybody should wait a little while before giving Heyward an airline commercial. We was wondering what would happen if he decided to represent somebody like American Airlines or maybe British Airways? Wouldn’t that take the cake? Flying ballplayers around is high risk because they may do some irresponsible things on an airplane. We would think Heyward might be better behaved than you-know-who though because being on the Braves is far better than being on the Mets.
Roy Hobbs
May 26th, 2010
1:42 pm
Nice story. I wish things had worked out better for Jeff, both here and in NY. I still hope he can turn things around.
Big things in Heywards future.
Kentavo
May 26th, 2010
1:45 pm
What about Hines Ward????
collegeballfan
May 26th, 2010
1:50 pm
Mark Bradley
“He’s the best high school football player I’ve seen since I’ve lived in Georgia, Howard. And I moved here in 1984.”
Francoeur is the best high school football player I have seen since in entered high school – way back in 1956.
ScoreKeeper
May 26th, 2010
1:51 pm
Here’s a story in the Wall Street Journal recently that talks about Frenchy and football:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703691804575254462552248910.html
frank james
May 26th, 2010
1:52 pm
Just goes to show you that Ted Williams was right. It takes a special athlete to hit a 94 or 95 mph fastball and then maybe have to hit an 82 mph breaking ball. Even the great Michael Jordan couldn’t do it. Goes to show just how good Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders were.
frank james
May 26th, 2010
1:53 pm
Herschel Walker is the greatest High School football player the state of Ga. may ever have.
Brave's Lifer
May 26th, 2010
1:54 pm
Yes Frenchy struggled here…but as a big time Braves fan (and a fan of an MLB era that no longer exists), there were a magical couple of years here in ATL where it really seemed like we had a “home-town” team. There were a bunch of literal kids who grew up playing on the same sand lots, rooted and dreamed of playing for the Braves together and came up as Braves through the system. McCann, Frenchy, Davies, James, McBride and several others, plus some local vetrans like Hudson and long time adoptees like Smotlz and Jones — made it seem like a real home team vs. a group of free agent mercenaries who happen to get their pay check from working at the Ted. Probably just an illusion — but it was fun to watch and darn difficult to find.
Ralph
May 26th, 2010
1:59 pm
Mark you wouldn’t have written these things about Francour three years ago and you might be writing the same things about Heward three years from now.
tom
May 26th, 2010
2:00 pm
My son played against Heyward when each was 14 yo. The Kid had TEN tools back then….!
frank james
May 26th, 2010
2:01 pm
Scout Rob English, now with the Red Sox, did a great job of getting the Braves these guys. One of the best scouts in baseball.
Herschel Talker
May 26th, 2010
2:03 pm
Frenchy is a turd
Chuck
May 26th, 2010
2:08 pm
After watching him quite a bit the last few years, I’ve reached this conclusion. He is at best, a very average fastball hitter. For someone who is basically a dead pull hitter, most of his foul balls are hit to the extreme right side of foul territory. He can’t catch up to a mid 90’s fastball or better. When you add the fact that he’s stubborn and not very coachable, it makes him an average at best and mediocre at worst player. He has gone back to his old habits of trying to pull everything and he can’t touch an outside fastball because of it. Last week, he missed by 6″ or less of getting hit in the face by a pitch. I was alarmed by his slow reaction in getting out of the way of the pitch. I don’t think he picks the ball up very well and that contributes to fastballs being thrown by him.
myra
May 26th, 2010
2:17 pm
Id rather have Frenchy than Melky/Diaz/Nate any day.
Steve
May 26th, 2010
2:19 pm
gobraves: Your the idiot! Why don’t you do a little researching before running your pie hole! Franceour was a WR and Safety in Highschool. He play both ways kind of like you!!!!!
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
May 26th, 2010
2:20 pm
Frenchy sux.
Next.
TPic
May 26th, 2010
2:21 pm
Not sure why the subject of former Braves players is supposed to generate so much interest, but what the hell – I’ll play. Here are the distinctions:
Francouer is right-handed; Heyward is a lefty.
Francoeur and Heyward can both hit lefties, but only Heyward can handle righthanders.
Francoeur has a strong arm and no speed; Heyward has no arm and lots of speed.
Francoeur is mechanical and awkward in his movements; Heyward is smooth and agile.
Francoeur expected to play right field; Heyward earned the job in right field.
Francoeur is an 8th place hitter on a bad team; Heyward should be the #3 hitter on a bad team.
Francoeur has proven to be a platoon player; Heyward is on a course for stardom.
There is no such thing as a ‘football mentality’. I’m not even sure what that is supposed to mean. Either you burn to win or you don’t. There is however an item called mental toughness, which is sorely lacking (among other things) from the Francoeur stable of traits. Notably, those would be humility, coachability, and personal accountability.
TPic
May 26th, 2010
2:23 pm
…..and baseball talent.
Mathman
May 26th, 2010
2:23 pm
Here’s hoping that in this year’s MLB draft, the Braves get some other black baseball players. Braves get #35, #53, #70, and #101. It is a crying shame that we don’t get the Orioles first rounder for Gonzalez and gave up our own first rounder for an old and retiring Wagner. It is also a shame that Wrenn didn’t offer arbitration to Soriano and thus get extra picks for him.
In any event, we need the best available collegiate hitter who plays 3B or OF with the #35 sandwich pick. We have 4 of the top pitching prospects in the game, 1 at AA and the other 3 at A ball, so hitters and athletes are badly needed.
Hopefully, someone like Jedd Gyorko of West Va or maybe Derek Dietrich of GA Tech with the #35 pick. Hopefully, someone like Delino Deshields of Woodward Academy with the #53 pick or Ryan Lamarre of Michigan. With the #70 pick, maybe the Braves can get Garin Cecchini of Lake Charles LA Barbre; and with #101 maybe athlete Chevez Clarke of Marietta GA.
We defintely need a 3B, a SS, and 2 OF’s. If Shaffer makes it back, great. If not, we need to hit the FA market or draft. We don’t need Wrenn trading our minor league talent away for a rental as his boss did with the Rangers. Andrus and the reliever would look good now as Braves.
KK and Lowe and Chipper are killing us with payroll. Chipper will likely retire. That still leaves KK 8 mil and Lowe 15 mil for 2 more years. What a fool Wrenn was and is. Our only hope is that one or both develop arm problems and insurance pays.
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
May 26th, 2010
2:26 pm
When a player openly admits that he quit on his team and teammates, I lose all respect. That’s exactly what Stenchy did.
OedipusTax
May 26th, 2010
2:28 pm
I so much wanted Francoeur to succeed in Atlanta. Parkview High School is right down the street, and I followed him throughout his brilliant high school career on both football and baseball. I’m rooting for him to succeed with the Mets, and I still check the Mets box score prior to the Braves now that he’s there. However, Francoeur’s strike zone has been about the size of an average gymnasium wall. Thank heavens that when the pitcher throws to first base, Francoeur’s swings then don’t count as strikes. Could it have been when he fouled that bunt off of his face, he splattered his eye sight as well as his brains? It’s so sad. Please, Jeff, please, learn the strike zone, and become the player we thought you could be all along. ,
DHD
May 26th, 2010
2:28 pm
Here it is…right on the money. The DAILY Hayward article. This is one is a double whammy. It is ALSO another article about a former Atlanta player.
Nice going…killed 2 birds with 1 stone.
I wonder what the Heyward article for Thursday will be about?
OedipusTax
May 26th, 2010
2:41 pm
Francoeur wore #12 at Parkview as a WR on offense and as a safety on defense, and was superb. That team was loaded with D1 talent, I believe the right tackle on the Super Bowl Champions, Stinchcomb, was also on that team. ‘gobraves’ must have had his Cheerios spiked with something.
John
May 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
this point has been made a million times already…so congrats on being the last journalist to report something obvious.
Dawgfan
May 26th, 2010
2:44 pm
TPic, I’m pretty sure Heyward has a really good arm. he just hasnt gotten chances to throw guys out like Frenchie did
FJR
May 26th, 2010
2:48 pm
French’s problem isn’t necessarily aggressiveness. It’s that he can’t recognize pitches until its too late. You ever notice how many hittable pitches he takes when he’s going though one of his “gotta be patient” phases? It’s easy to look like you’re being overaggressive when you can’t tell if the pitch is a ball or strike until its 20 feet away (less than a quarter second from crossing the plate). Which was about what I would guess with Francouer.
Tucker
May 26th, 2010
2:50 pm
Bradley
Easy to write this article when Frenchy is down. I noticed that we heard nary a word out of you when he was hitting 300+ at the beginning of the season. Before you write any obituaries, how about waiting until the end of the season. It is way to early to anoint J-Hey the better player but hopefully, Cox’s retirement will help not to mess up another promising young career.
Frenchy’s demise here was all about coaching. Give him time and he will continue to be productive offensively and extremely good defensively. Something the Braves are sadly missing with the current outfield. You glossed over the coaching in this story just so that you can get your next story.
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
2:56 pm
As a Georgian, we should all root for fellow Georgians who have the talent to make it to the show. Especially a guy as likeable and with as much charisma as Frenchy. The people who are glad he is failing are actually showing more about the shortcomings of their character than that of Jeff. I hope he adjusts and keeps playing, at successful clip and with good stats.
TPic
May 26th, 2010
2:58 pm
Dawgfan, I agree, the chances to throw have been limited – but that also discounts your claim of him having a strong arm. Let’s call it a draw and say the jury is still out. My observation (admittedly a small sample) is based o the few throws I have seen. His physique is more suited to an Andre Dawson arm (if you are old enough to recall him) and not a Rickey Henderson arm.
meh
May 26th, 2010
3:00 pm
Heyward realizes when pitchers make adjustments and then he adjusts. Hence the .296 average. Francoeur doesn’t understand that when pitchers make adjustments then he also needs to adust. he just keeps hacking like he always does. Hence the .219 average
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
3:01 pm
When did he quit on his team mates? please site references. please.
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
3:07 pm
Heyward is a unique talent. ironically, he reminds me a lot of Strawberry, which may be why Bradley wrote the article. Heyward, as smart, wise and talented as he seems, could be a better player than Chipper for a long, long time. I really did not expect him to successfully make the jump from AA ball, but I was wrong. He does look at how pitchers are attacking him and is willing to take a walk. One thing that Frenchy is missing – patience and adaption.
Mid Town Joe
May 26th, 2010
3:16 pm
Most of Francour’s hitting woes were because of the hitting coach. TP
RaiderNowandForever
May 26th, 2010
3:17 pm
“A football player believes nothing can’t be fixed by sheer effort.” Bad line
“Baseball is a game of skill and precision, not strength and mass.” Also Crappy line
Mark Bradley you are a IDIOT. What was that can you say roids? Frenchy was like that because that is him. Football did not make him that way.
RaiderNowandForever
May 26th, 2010
3:20 pm
TPic well Said:
CH
May 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
Kilmer,
I have seen played more HS football than 99% of the people on this site. I played against most of the people you mentioned and a lot of the ones Mark mentioned. While I am not a Parkview fan, I can assure you Jeff was probably one of the top 3 overall players this state has seen in the last 35 years. Yes he played QB, when they needed him too. He also played receiver, slot back, corner, safety, returned kick, punts and did the punting.
Fur Man Bisher
May 26th, 2010
3:26 pm
Frenchy was a hard worker who played hard everyday. This Heyward kid will slack off like andruw jones once he gets a big fat contract.
How long before he makes the police blotter, something french never did
Pete*
May 26th, 2010
3:27 pm
TPic: “Francoeur has a strong arm and no speed; Heyward has no arm and lots of speed.”
Huh? While Heyward’s arm is not as good as JF, it is definitely well above average. “No arm” is a huge exaggeration in my opinion. I agree with all your comparisons except that one.
Correct that there has not been that many throwing chances for Heyward yet, but I watched him for many opportunities in 2 spring training seasons, and I saw a strong arm.
Bill Robinson
May 26th, 2010
3:38 pm
Good piece, Mark!
ghost of claudell
May 26th, 2010
3:41 pm
Fur Man Bisher. What an ignorant statement. I’ll bet the confederate flag on your front porch that if Heyward was sent to the minors and pouted, whined and cried about it to the press and complained about the entire organization, guys like you would have crucified him as mercurial, lazy and self-serving. Hell, French even floated his own trade rumors to Boston! They only way he could see the field in Boston is if he changed the scoreboard placards on the Green Monster.
Fans like you need to remember that Chipper has publicly mentioned his work ethic, class and team oriented play over the old style that left town when French can’t hit a Lick left town. As for football, gimme a break. Heyward’s a better athlete than French. French looks like he’s running with two left cleats on through knee deep mud.
Dr Richard Handler
May 26th, 2010
3:42 pm
To those who want Jeff to try football. Remember, he is a defensive back or wide receiver prospect. Likely wide receiver because on defense one must welcome and enjoy contact. Jeff does neither.
Paul Hewitt
May 26th, 2010
3:45 pm
There you go again Mark– It’s not Jeff’’s fault.
Jeff can’t hit because of reporters like you writing articles like this.
J
May 26th, 2010
3:46 pm
That’s why Jason is my man crush
the cox man
May 26th, 2010
3:58 pm
Frenchy would be a Superstar in Japan.
Ross
May 26th, 2010
4:06 pm
Francoeur was one of the dumbest baseball players I’ve ever watched – and that includes parts of 5 decades. I can’t believe that he’d be any better on the Falcons’ offense. He’s just not very smart on the field, and when his natural skill is neutralized, he can’t adjust.
In contrast, Heyward reminds me of a veteran already. He has “built-in brains” for the game.
ijudgenot
May 26th, 2010
4:13 pm
The difference between them right now is that Heyward has only played for Cox and Penndleton fo 40 game and will only be exposed to their influence for one year hopefully, while Francouer had 3 years of “swing for it Frenchy” tutoring from Cox. The Heyward single to the left side that won the game was this kid abandoning going for the 3 run homer his manager loves and hitting for the situation presented to him. He (Heyward) was not taught that by Cox or Penndleton he came to the league with that mindset. Unfortunately Francouer was never taught that by either of the two wise men. The feeling was and still is if you play for Cox you should be hitting homeruns instead of singles even if situation called for a hit, any hit to win the game. Luckily Heyward only has 3/4 of year left to listen to that.
FJR
May 26th, 2010
4:13 pm
ghost of Claudell, I’m pretty sure Fur Man Bisher was just trying to flame (race) bait, and you let him succeed. Don’t feed the trolls.
TPic
May 26th, 2010
4:24 pm
Pete, I’ll take your word for it. You and Dawgfan apparently have seen more of him than I have. I stand corrected – thanks for the feedback.
rico43
May 26th, 2010
4:41 pm
The phrase that struck me is that it was Pendleton AND COX who convinced J-Hey to be more aggressive at the plate. Not just Pendleton. This is a smart young player.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 26th, 2010
5:07 pm
Although Mark likes to be humble and tell us that he doesn’t know much sometimes, he actually has a very good understanding of the difference in baseball and football. Baseball is a grind, an endurance test. You can’t play on emotion for 162 games.
Sonny Clusters
May 26th, 2010
5:20 pm
We played football and we played baseball and we was state championship in both. We was what was called multi-talented athletes and we was the smartest two in our class. Sometimes Coach would call us up and let us conjugate for the entire class and that was health class! We was very popular back then and nobody would dare say we had football mentality on a baseball field. We was thinking players and because of that we wore our caps loose and gave our brains room to breathe. When we was almost Clemson Tigers one of us got called to the Braves and we was never the same. We was thinking this morning if we had gone on to Clemson and graduated and opened up a landscape company we would probably have a couple Deeres by now and at least one truck paid for. We was always the smartest in our class.
Hillbilly Deluxe
May 26th, 2010
5:30 pm
Sometimes Coach would call us up and let us conjugate for the entire class and that was health class!
That was legal back then?
Flo-Ri-Duh!
May 26th, 2010
5:32 pm
Francouer went for the money. He made more in his first contract with the Braves than he would have made for an entire career in the NFL and he can still walk without a limp. He did the right thing.
reason
May 26th, 2010
5:43 pm
“What if” the Braves were really serous about winning, “What if” they stop playing a guessing game, and really apply themselves to putting together a real team, that would stay together for more than a couple of years and become a winning team with a real hitting coach, and a manage who thinks “who” is on first when “who” on second, “what” is on first and so on.
“What if” the line up as left intact for more than a couple games and “What if” if the Braves front office knew what they were doing. So you see “What if” isn’t. Where is the wrong of both playing baseball, way too much is put on Heyward, he is an outstanding player for new but has only been in the big leagues for 3 month by the time the Braves staff finishes with him he’ll may be worse than Francoeur.
Everyone should leave Francoeur along and stop comparing peaches to oranges.
Heyward should NOT LISTEN TO PENDLETON OR BOBBY……………………………….
Einsteindawg
May 26th, 2010
6:19 pm
While I’m glad we no lomger have Frenchy, I think he could be an above average (much better than Melkey or McChoke) IF he had a legitimate hitting coach. TP is nothing more than Bobby’s goober eatin’ buddy. Which one weighs the most?
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
6:27 pm
Bud Kilmer – a legend in his own mind, and apparently at reading Francoeur mind. With fans like him, who needs enemies.
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
6:31 pm
The failure thus far is simple: there should be no frenchy v. J Hey – Heyward would be playing left, and Francoeur right. The big problem was trading him to an intra-divisional foe, and then trading him for nothing. The assumption that he never adapts is relatively foolish, plus, if he hits 250 with 25 HR and over 80 RBI for the next 10 years, he probably would have a career better than 80% of players who make it to the majors.
Paddy O
May 26th, 2010
6:39 pm
The butthole redneck braves fan. Never happy, always critical, and personally insulting. The great reason that, not just community wide, not just state wide, not even just nationally, but globally, Atlanta is known as the very best place to play post season sports.
Bye Bye Bobby
May 26th, 2010
7:22 pm
OMG. Have you seen Fred Hickman on Sport South? He has porked up over the years. I remember when he was skinny. I guess it happens to the best of us if you don’t lay off the groceries. LOL.
Trey
May 26th, 2010
7:30 pm
Sonny Clusters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
About time, I haven’t seen your posts in a long time, how you been?
Mark Bradley
May 26th, 2010
7:50 pm
Thanks, Hillbilly. But it’s not humility. Actually I don’t know anything.
Mrs. Catie Francoeur
May 26th, 2010
8:11 pm
I love me some money. Too bad it is all over after this season for Jeffy and me. Course Jeffy has earned more this season than most of you chumps will earn in a lifetime. So what if he is a garbage ballplayer.
DZ
May 26th, 2010
9:07 pm
Francoeur who?
Larry
May 26th, 2010
9:34 pm
The downside for both players is they were plagued by the most boring, average manager in the game–Bobby Cox.
CaptainMudderland
May 26th, 2010
10:00 pm
Probably best to give the Frenchy legacy a rest….he has moved on and Jason has moved in–let the guys represent their respective teams with their special talents evaluated and highlighted by the baseball professionals. As far as I am concerned, no journalist I have read has seen an MLB backdoor slider come their way on a 2-2 count with the bases loaded in the ninth…let the frenchman “219″ in peace.
frank james
May 26th, 2010
10:12 pm
If I was Jeff I would go play travel ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KenDog
May 26th, 2010
10:22 pm
Been thinking about Mark’s comments about Frenchy and I thought of something interesting. I too saw Jeff play high school football at Parkview, and he was great. When I was in high school in suburban Chicago in the early 70’s the best high school football player I ever saw was Quinn Buckner, who was Illinois Mr. Football his graduation year. I’m sure you all remember what happened to Buckner – All American basketball guard (he was also Illinois Mr. Basketball his senior year – how often does that happen in any state?) at Thornridge H.S., then the same at Indiana University (also my alma mater) and All-Pro with the Celtics. Possibly the best defensive guard I have ever seen play the game. Yet both could have easily played college/pro football. It seems like the alternative choice worked out better for Buckner, yet I wish Frenchy the best.
frank james
May 26th, 2010
10:29 pm
Boy Larry did Bobby release you. You are showing your ignorance by your comments about Cox. He is a Hall of Famer. I’m glad you don’t vote. Ask the Cubs how hard it is to win a Division or a World Series. Oh yea that is right when you don’t win it is always the managers fault. I may not agree with Cox all the time, but he has done a great job. There is so much behind the scenes that you have no clue about.
wardo
May 26th, 2010
10:40 pm
You failed to mention anything about the defense of these two players. I am very happy to see that our new right fielder knows who and where the cut off man is. Frenchy was undisciplined at bat and in the field. A high school super star that has never gotten any better. When he cried about his demotion I knew he wouldn’t be long for Atlanta. That was his chance to show that he was a man and that he was dedicated to getting better. He was unwilling to get better. He thought he knew it all. I am happy to see Jason in right field for the Braves.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
May 26th, 2010
11:13 pm
Jeff, you could have just said one has a brain and uses it, while the other has a helmet on his.
J-Hey Kid
May 26th, 2010
11:13 pm
Would Frenchy sue some tiny t-shirt company for using his nickname on a shirt? I don’t think so. Heyward needs to focus on the game and not on a company called SportsCrack.com
http://www.ajc.com/business/marietta-web-retailer-sued-536108.html
fayncdawg
May 27th, 2010
12:09 am
If Strawberry didn’t get in Frenchy’s face and cuss him out (and thus Frenchy’s negative reaction to the pep talk), then Frenchy will probably be cut by the Mets before June. Hitting .219 is one thing. Being perceived as overly sensitive to critics won’t cut in NYC! Hey, couldn’t Georgia State use a TE for their upcoming football season??
ReddJonn68
May 27th, 2010
12:10 am
J-Hey is the future of the Braves. Just remember one thing every time you see this guy’s uniform dirty, we are in the “Game” mark it down !!! What it shows me is no matter how much Cox tries 2 blow this season, J-Hey is gonna do any & everything make it too the post season in his first year, reminds me of Justice & Chipper their rookie seasons only much better !!! Not to long ago when Chipper was coming into the league, he was touted as an outfield or shortstop starter, with good speed, knee injuries ended all that. Keeping it real.
fayncdawg
May 27th, 2010
12:17 am
BTW, when a 20 year is BY FAR the best offensive threat on a veteran batting order, YOU GOT BIG PROBLEMS!! I doubt if the scenerio was for J-Hey to be a greta threat and Glaus and Chipper do no better than Frenchy. All three (Glaus, Chipper, and Frenchy) need to be cut by June!
ReddJonn68
May 27th, 2010
12:24 am
Any player in high school who has had the blessing to play multiple sports, should not be ashamed that they didn’t excelled in one sport over another. I had the opportunity & played in 4 varsity sports. I was good at 2, & average at 2. We played sports til the street lights came on & always gave 115% !!!! I don’t really fault Francoeur 4 being what he truly is, thats why you have SCOUTS.
Mitchell
May 27th, 2010
12:41 am
Said that a long time ago M-Brad. He chose the wrong sport. Simple as that.
I’ll say this for Jeff though… he has really great hair.
You ever get a good look at that hair? It’s good hair I tell ya. I wish I had hair like his.
I guess I’ll just leave it at that.
TommyJack
May 27th, 2010
2:06 am
“The intent isn’t to belittle Francouer”. You coulda fooled me, Bradley.
sad brotha
May 27th, 2010
5:02 am
Francan’t? He is still in the Major Leagues? That guy gets more passes than a barfly at Johnny’s Hideaway! At least now he is New York’s 5 MILLION DOLLAR BUST!
JDub in GA
May 27th, 2010
7:18 am
I remember Maddux saying his strategy was to make balls look like strikes and strikes look like balls. That’s a trap that Francoeur has fallen for from day one. We’ll never know, but I believe that Maddux in his prime would have owned Frenchy (as he did most hitters) but that Heyward would have given him fits. Speaking of match ups, I can’t wait until Heyward and Strasburg square off for the first time.
Terry Harper
May 27th, 2010
8:11 am
I have to say, the media coming up with J-Hey as a name is beat. Too American Idolish. We in our family call him Hey-Hey. Much cooler. Much cooler name for a cool guy. Not prefabricated like the rest of American these days. A little closer to a Fat Albert mantra.
PS – Hey Hey is the coolest right fielder for the Braves since Claudell Washington.
Dr. R
May 27th, 2010
8:13 am
Absolutely spot on, Mark. Football people don’t understand baseball and the baseball mentality. It’s why so many local fans don’t understand why Bobby Cox is a great manager. They think the Bill Parcells model is what makes for a great coach/manager/leader, but that approach doesn’t work in a game you play every day, and one that requires the PLAYER to think. In football, the coaches do most of the thinking and decision-making for them. It’s why fans blast Cox every time something goes wrong, as if he can draw up a play to make a pitcher throw strikes or a hitter lay off bad pitches. Baseball is a player’s game; football is a coach’s game. And when it comes to a guy like Francoeur, he needs someone to do the thinking for him because he doesn’t have what it takes.
hatfieldgeoff
May 27th, 2010
8:21 am
Mark, I agree that Francoeur was a great athlete and a very good high school football player, but to say he is the best you have seen in Georgia since 1984 is a bit over the top. Your entitled to your opinion, but Francoeur was not very speedy. He would have been a solid player in college, but I don’t think he would have been a star at Clemson (particularly at Safety or Wide Receiver where he played in high school) and I certainly don’t think he would have played in the NFL. I believe he made the right choice to play baseball. It is just, in some ways, unfortunate that the game of baseball came so easily to him that he never had to adjust until he got to the majors. Now he just doesn’t really know how to approach making changes. I hope he turns it around but I don’t seem him in the majors in 5 years.
John Tucker
May 27th, 2010
8:37 am
Francouer is a good guy whose talent has been wasted because he is unteachable and has absolutely no plate discipline.
Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders could play both baseball and football very well. Francouer’s declinne had more to do with his inability to adjust his stance or swing to cover the plate and his predictable bad habits of swinging early and hard at almost every pitch he saw.
While he listened to anybody and everybody and sought to try any suggestions, he only confused himself and did not know his own swing well enough to analyze the advice he got and adjust to what the pitchers were doing to strike him out.
Braves babied him too long insteasd of designating him for assignement iin early 2008. Mets will not be so generous.
Terrence Moore
May 27th, 2010
9:26 am
man my posts sure aren’t lasting long up here….guess a brutha can’t even post anymore
Mark Bradley
May 27th, 2010
9:26 am
How many times do I have to clarify? I did not say Jeff Francoeur was the best high school player ever. I didn’t say he was the greatest pro prospect ever. I said, and I meant, that he was the greatest high school player I’d seen in Georgia.
SHO-NUFF
May 27th, 2010
9:52 am
Maybe, if Jeff had listened to TP’s advice on hitting, he could of developed into a great hitter and still be a Brave.
SHO-NUFF
May 27th, 2010
9:54 am
Oh yeah, 199th!
Skeezix
May 27th, 2010
9:58 am
I much prefer Jason’s approach at the plate and believe he will have a greater career than Frenchy as a hitter. Frenchy is a better RF with that rifle arm of his. I think Frenchy will end up having a good season–he will figure it out and make adjustments as all good athletes do. I also wish he wasn’t a mutt.
longtimedawgfan
May 27th, 2010
10:46 am
On prior occasion, when I felt he deserved it, I have knocked Mr. Bradley. I also believe in giving him credit when it is due…if he is saying that no matter how good a player may be, he can always become better by listening to and taking to heart good coaching advice, then he is due credit…
gator32301
May 27th, 2010
10:57 am
great article, mark. while it is still early on in Heyward’s career, his patience at the plate will help him get through the tough stretches every player hits. the shame with francouer is he was never given the chance to make the needed improvements and adjustments in the minors. there is no guarantee it would have happened but it would have been nice to have seen it attempted.
Red Nekkerson
May 27th, 2010
11:08 am
Mark,
This is one of your best articles ever. It says a lot about Heyward & Francouer, but nearly as much about the Braves organization. Heyward succeeds in spite of the organization. Francouer could not.
I look forward to Bobby’s retirement. With a new manager, we might get coaches who can teach the rest of the Braves how to hit… maybe even how to bunt or steal a base!! Francoeur had the speed to steal bases, but nobody with the Braves could teach him how to steal a base. The Braves offense has long had glaring deficiencies. Hoping for a homer is not a sound offensive strategy.
droopydawg
May 27th, 2010
11:49 am
Mr. Bradley, I think this is excellent analysis. The reason the ATL fans got on Frenchy so much (the “Benchy Frenchy” T-shirts were my favorite) is because he was such a physical talent, and it was frustrating seeing him waste it because of a lack of talent between the ears. If 45 games is any indication, this will not be the same problem for Hey.
bfred
May 27th, 2010
1:00 pm
I didn’t read this article as piling on Francouer (sp?). It was pointing out reasons why Heyward is unlikely to follow the same downward trajectory. I do think the football thing is a bit of a red herring.
Jeff’s problem is he has a huge swing and has to load up early to make sure he keeps up with fastballs. This leaves him incredibly exposed to offspeed/breaking pitches, and makes it harder to stop the swing if the ball is out of the zone. Pitchers picked up on this fact, and the rest is history. At this point he’s so far into his own head that he can’t just react – he’s trying to anticipate every pitch. When he’s right, he clearly has the ability to hit for power. But too often he’s wrong.
As for the Cox/TP effect, I find it very difficult to believe neither of them ever told him to take a pitch. Cox is loyal to a fault and would never publicy admit if he had a player that wasn’t taking coaching but that had to contribute to the AAA demotion.
BartBuzz
May 27th, 2010
1:59 pm
I liked Francouer’s exuberance. But I like Heyward’s patience more.
Nice tidbits Mr. Bradley.
don
May 27th, 2010
2:24 pm
Good analysis, Mr. Bradley. Certainly far superior to some of the snippy comments made by some of these posters about Francoeur.
I am still a big fan of Francoeur. It is very telling that so many fans of the Braves feel a need to badmouth all former Braves. Some are so ignorant as to still think that Escobar is better than Andrus and that the Braves have pitchers of the same ability as Wainwright. Nonsense.
Dan Schlossberg
May 28th, 2010
7:30 am
Very creative and well-crafted column, but wouldn’t the Braves be much better off today had they kept Francoeur instead of trading him for the worthless Ryan Church? Francoeur would still be a stud in either center or left, upgrading the Braves defensively as well as providing the righthanded power the team craves. Bringing back Andruw Jones for $500,000 would have accomplished the same objective. In fact, an outfield of Heyward, Jones, and Francoeur would be one of the best in the majors. And certainly better than the journeymen the Braves are running out there now.
JDUB
May 28th, 2010
7:40 am
The Dogfighter Returns:
I seem to remember Frenchy getting “infinite” patience for almost two complete seasons of well-below average production. He was still cheered louder than Chipper at home games and everyone from the newest fan to the owners wanted and hoped he’d turn things around. The guy ADMITTED he “kind of gave up” trying to please people while in ATL when things got rough. He also acted like a complete, and total jerk when he was sent down to AA for 3 days….3 days!!! How many other athletes are asked where they’d like to go, AA or AAA, then after 3 days get re-called after accomplishing absolutely nothing. He said it was, and I quote, “embarassing” to be send back down. Really??? What’s embarassing was his batting average and lack of production for the team. At that point, he was selling jerseys, that’s it. I wanted him to succeed. How awesome would it have been to have a home-grown guy be an all-star for the Braves for the next decade. It would have been sweet. However, him getting shipped to the METS shows exactly how bad the Braves wanted to ride themselves of them. He was affecting the coaches’ attitudes, making them second guess themselves. He was also affecting the locker room by NEVER coming through with big hit, or even a walk with two out and nobody on. Frenchy seems like a great guy who’s head is on straight in his personal life. However, his “baseball life” is on life support, and not only because of his performance, but also because of his self-entitled attitude.
JDUB
May 28th, 2010
7:57 am
Dan Schlossberg :
“In fact, an outfield of Heyward, Jones, and Francoeur would be one of the best in the majors”
ARE YOU SERIOUS??? REALLY??? Do you even watch baseball? I love Andruw, and loved Frenchy at one time, but…reallY? What are you smoking? That would be better than Kemp and Ethier in LA? Swisher, Granderson, Gardner in NYY? Ellsbury, Drew, enter name here in Boston. Have you seen Texas’ Outfield? I am HOPING your comment was made out of passion and not knowledge. You’d take a rookie that’s played 40 games, a 32 yr old OF who’s hitting .240 and stop running fast 7 years ago, and a 26 yr old that’s hitting .219 and hasn’t hit higher than .260 in almost 4 years. THAT’S THE BEST OUTFIELD IN BASEBALL? REALL??!! I’m as huge a Braves fan as you can find, have been for two decades. But some of you people have to realize that the situation the team is in now (no playoffs since 2005) is because they were so loyal to some people, they forgot they were competing in a business market. So while they were dishing out money and being loyal to Smoltz, Chipper, Maddux, Andruw, Javy (my favorite along with Gant), Giles, etc., other teams were realeasing and trading useless and/or aging players and replacing them with younger talent. That’s what ATL did this time. McClouth won’t be as good as we thought, but we gave Pitt a crappy starting pitcher as the key piece of the deal. So that was a no-brainer. We got rid of Frenchy, and didn’t have to hardly give NYM too much money to take him either. Now we have Heyward and McClouth instead of Jones and Frenchy. Also, we got rid of Vasquez who was “the best pitcher in baseball” according to some Braves fans. Now he’s 3-5 with an ERA over 5. There’s a reason we’re typing on these blogs, and not GM’s.
PH.D
May 28th, 2010
9:41 am
Everything in baseball is mind over matter. It’s a game of Zen. Talent means: becoming sharper, more sober, when everything stops and you nail the ball that vanishes.
Michael
May 28th, 2010
8:22 pm
Bud Kilmer, AAA pitching is just about equal to major league pitching? I don’t believe that for a second.
Senor Sniffle
May 28th, 2010
9:55 pm
Mark- I guess you never went to see Eric Berry play at Creekside High. You may want to go watch the Berry Twins next year. Both Berrys (Evan & Eliot) are further along than big brother at this stage of the game. They will surpass the Bailey boys before its all said and done.
Hank Still The King
May 29th, 2010
12:14 am
MB:
Give us your take. Who was a greater skinny hitter, Hammerin’ or Barry?
How old was Barry when he added body mass? The years before Barry added body mass,
what were his stats? Compare those stats to Hammerin’s. Who’s the greatest hitter and all ’round player between the two?
Derek
May 29th, 2010
2:05 am
Mark, do you look up as many words as you can that nobody knows the meaning to to try to make yourself look intelligent?
Hay
May 29th, 2010
7:43 am
As much as I liked Francoeur, & still do, Heyward is a smarter basebal man. He knows how to make the subtle adjustments, Francouer just swung harder. Mark’s right it’s the difference between the mentalities of the two sports.
Baldemar Huerta
July 23rd, 2010
3:26 am
Just think what might have been if Booby hadn’t recalled Surrender Boy after only 3 days.