An NBA man says: The right coach could fix the Hawks
Johnson and Woodson: The partnership seems near its end. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)
I spoke for 30 minutes Monday with a man who has been an NBA head coach and who knows the game and its personnel as well as anyone. We spoke about the Hawks. He made these points:
• Mike Woodson is a good coach who deserves great credit for lifting the Hawks from 13-69 to 53-29 over the course of five seasons. But it became clear in these playoffs that his players had stopped listening, as players invariably will after hearing the same voice for so long.
• It’s one thing to go down swinging in the playoffs, but no good team should ever be beaten the way the Hawks were by Orlando.
• Even though Joe Johnson pulled another playoff disappearance, he remains one of the toughest players to defend in the league. He’s the focal point of every opposing scouting report.
• Josh Smith is a tremendous talent who has become a very good player, but his relationship with Woodson has become poisoned. Whoever the next coach is — this man believes Woodson and the Hawks will indeed part ways — he must be able to correct Smith’s excesses without seeming to browbeat him.
• Al Horford is the one indispensable man on the Hawks’ roster — a terrific player who’s also a leader. That said, the man noticed that even Horford was guilty of matador defense during the Orlando series, a telltale sign that the team had stopped responding to its coach.
• Mike Bibby has little left and could well become a distraction if/when he loses his starting job. The Hawks probably need to move him.
• Marvin Williams has been a huge disappointment.
• Woodson’s basic precepts — Iso-Joe on offense, switching every screen on defense — can work well in the regulation season, where opponents essentially have to show up and play, but they don’t work in the playoffs because teams have a chance to prepare at length. Both Milwaukee’s Scott Skiles and Orlando’s Stan Van Gundy outflanked the Hawks.
• Jamal Crawford was the reason the Hawks went from 47 wins last season to 53 this.
• Assuming it comes open, the Hawks’ coaching job will be seen as a plum. Even if Johnson leaves, this won’t be a team starting over. Horford, Smith and Crawford are major talents, and there’s no telling what Johnson could fetch in a sign-and-trade. The right coaching hire could elevate this team immediately.
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170 comments Add your comment
Mike "The Czar" Fratello
May 11th, 2010
9:24 am
I am the Czar of the Telestrator, in case anyone was wondering.
ZAZA
May 11th, 2010
9:25 am
Edward R Morrow- OBAMA IS A BEAST
Plantman
May 11th, 2010
9:27 am
Good season hawks. As an outsider fan of the Hawks (outside of ATL), it’s clear JJ (1) has seen his last max contract and (2) Woodson is a good coach – he’s just hit the wall w/ this group. Let him go coach somewhere like New Jersey, and I bet the Nets will make the playoffs before the Knicks.
One this everyone is looking over – The Hawks blundered under Billy Knight by choosing Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams. The team needs a real PG who’ll know where to make his teammates sucessful on the floor. MAJOR TRADE – J. Johnson (sign & trade) and Marvin Williams to the Hornets for Darren Collison and Okafor (Chris Paul is out of the equation). Make that trade, move Horford to the PF, and the could replace BOSTON and the third beast in the East.
ladyhawksfan
May 11th, 2010
9:29 am
As much as i hate to admit it i agree with D.W.Josh Smith might be the guy to get moved.He and Al r both pf.The Hawks best option is to move him to the 4.Josh could be used to bring in a pg like Devin Harris or Tony Parker.Now if we can get one of those guys for a package of Bibby,Williams,and Chilldress,that would be even better,but very unlikely.We also must address lack of a true center issue.Sign Brenden Haywood,Tyson Chandler.or Brad Miller.I personally would prefer Miller cause he is a better offensive player and should be much cheaper.U almost have to resign Joe especially of Josh is traded,some how if i had to choose between the two,i would chose to keep Joe.Most importantly if nothing else happens Mike Woodson has got to go.There is 0% chance he will be back next season.I would love to see us keep the core together and add a pg and center.However,i know thats not likely.
Hey Mark
May 11th, 2010
9:31 am
Who was the NBA person you spoke with?
newkid
May 11th, 2010
9:31 am
“Horford, Smith and Crawford are major talents…” That (i.e., MAJOR) is a Hubie Brown adjective if I’ve ever heard one. Too bad he is not inclined to re-join the coaching fraternity.
ZAZA
May 11th, 2010
9:31 am
Tony Parker is 40 also and you guys are talkin about Bibby…..
DP
May 11th, 2010
9:35 am
Those who keep posting that the Hawks need to get a center don’t seem to realize that there are no more than a handful of high quality true centers in the NBA (if that many) and the teams that have them aren’t going to trade them. Al Horford can’t guard Dwight Howard but neither can anybody else in the NBA. If the Hawks had a legitimate point guard and a coach like Jerry Sloan they’d run high pick and rolls and pick and pops with Horford and the point guard and make Howard guard Horford 15 feet from the basket where he might draw fouls or at a minimum is pulled away from the basket to neutralize his rebounding and shot blocking. Coaches who are better than Woodson know how to make a matchup disadvantage on one end of the floor work to their advantage on the other end, like Chuck Daly used to do with Laimbeer. Laimbeer couldn’t guard mobile centers but on offense he sat out on the 3 point line to pull out the opposing centers and let the Piston guards work in the paint. Horford can handle, pass and shoot the ball. He should be playing 15-18 feet from the basket most of the time against Orlando to keep Howard from hanging around the basket.
And for those who think Josh Smith is a 3, did anybody notice all the open 3 point looks Rashard Lewis got in the just concluded wipeout? Josh Smith shouldn’t be playing on the perimeter on either offense or defense. His strengths are rebounding and shot blocking and he needs to be around the basket on both ends to influence the game. He’s like Dennis Rodman with more offensive skills and less tenacity.
GT65
May 11th, 2010
9:36 am
Gordon, no to Paul Hewitt. We (most) the fans want him out of Atlanta period. Fire him and Woody.
Phoot
May 11th, 2010
9:36 am
The Hawks had severe matchup problems with Orlando all year. This series is very disappointing but shouldn’t be a surprise. The matchup problems start with Dwight Howard. We need Tree Rollins back in his glory days. Seriously when was the last time we had a top flight center?
I do like Zaza and when he has great games it make a tremendous difference.
jj
May 11th, 2010
9:38 am
the way the asg does business, woodson will become waddell’s assistant
Najeh Davenpoop
May 11th, 2010
9:41 am
“People talk about Teague like he’s the 2nd coming of Rajon Rondo. Rondo was VERY GOOD coming out of Kentucky as a defensive PG who could run the show. ”
What are you talking about? Rondo was an indecisive, passive player with no scoring ability his first two years in the league, and it didn’t help that three Hall of Famers were barking orders at him. The one big advantage he had was a former point guard coaching him who had full confidence in him and allowed him to play through his mistakes without looking over his shoulder. Look at his averages his first year and tell me Teague couldn’t have matched them in the same number of minutes.
Anyway, I think Tony Parker is a better comparison for Teague than Rondo.
Edward R. Murrow
May 11th, 2010
9:43 am
ZAZA @ 9:25am –
You can’t say that.
That’s racist!
Prison Mike
May 11th, 2010
9:52 am
“• Marvin Williams has been a huge disappointment.”
No chit.
rainman
May 11th, 2010
9:54 am
HAYWOOD — it seems like he is our best hope to get a big defense minded center.
I wish Sund would go ahead & tell Woody he ain’t coming back, so the headcoach search could commence immediately — if they wait too long, the pickin’s could get slim.
I can’t see JJ being here next year. Crawford is a decent option, and we need the money to fill some other holes.
I wish Chills would at least say whether there is any chance he would play in Atlanta. He would be a nice ’swingman’ addition that could challenge MW at 3 and backup Crawford at two.
The point guard position must be upgraded. We need to see what Teague has, but we have to add some talent here. Either a free agent (like Felton), a trade, or our first round pick.
If the Hawks address the C/PG problems prior to the draft, they should select the best perimeter scorer available. The Magic has shown that DH is ‘the man’, but their outside shooting makes them even more deadly.
So, to start with, let Woody & JJ go … focus on Haywood at C, and decide about PG. Then, we can start working trades — we still have the rights to Chills, JJ might prove useful in a sign & trade, I wouldn’t even rule out JS if it would land us a star.
StayThirstyMyFriends
May 11th, 2010
9:55 am
“Hey Mark”, MB could tell you, but then he’d have to kill you. . .
spaceman109
May 11th, 2010
9:57 am
i’d like to see the hawks make a hard run at boston assistant tom thibodeau. i have heard before that he is highly regarded around the league.
Reality
May 11th, 2010
10:04 am
Mark… I have been trying to get you to comment on Woody for weeks! All of the sports networks and radio shows are out there talking about Woody and him not being back!! Noone has supported him and they all say he needs to go! I am just glad that this “NBA Coach” got you to comment on this vital subject!
It is clear, and has been, that Woody needs to leave! can you now agree?
Paddy
May 11th, 2010
10:07 am
spaceman109….Woody was a young assit that was admired around the league. The ASG would go after a guy like Thibodeau so they don’t have to pay a top guy big $. But as I have mentioned previous, top guys will stay far away from the ASG. It has been mentioned that the team lacks chemistry. Combine that with an ownership group that is non-functional and broke and you have about the worst combination in all of sports. I believe you will be reading more about this subject in the weeks that follow.
Joey
May 11th, 2010
10:15 am
John Hollinger of espn.com has a good read on the roll the Orlando Magic are on. Some of his points:
“Want to guess the Magic’s record in their 30 games since March 1?
Would you believe 27-3?
Yes, 27-3. That’s not a typo. That’s their mark in a slate in which 18 of the 30 opponents were playoff teams. And before you dismiss the most recent opposition so easily, remember that the Hawks team they handled so easily won more games than Boston, San Antonio and Portland and as many as Denver and Utah. In fact the Hawks beat all of those teams at least once, as well as the Lakers and Suns, and swept Boston 4-0.”
Dr. Warren
May 11th, 2010
10:20 am
Mark’s man is right. This is a plum job, even with the ASG as owners. Think about it–they’ve kept Woody for 6 years, which says something strong about job security here.
jlewis
May 11th, 2010
10:21 am
Bradley:
Could you do some reporting and ask if JJ’s thumb injury re-occured after game 3 in the Milwaukee series. And how can you do a sign and trade of an unrestricted free agent, why would he help you out? lol
wxwax
May 11th, 2010
10:24 am
Regulation season?
Is that when we can hunt and shoot regulations?
Perry West
May 11th, 2010
10:25 am
BYRON SCOTT FOR HEAD COACH OF THE ATL HAWKS>
UKUGA
May 11th, 2010
10:25 am
In addition to getting the players’ attention, a big name coach would help to get the refs’ attention, as well.
The coach’s salary does not count against the cap. Yes, it costs money, but you aren’t penalized by it. Pay a big name coach, if he will take the job, and you might just find that this team can compete for a title.
Woodson did his job, and he’ll likely get another chance to do this with another team. No crime in what he has accomplished, but he is not a championship coach. Nor, is Mike Brown, in Cleveland. But, Lebron may be a championship player. The Hawks don’t have Lebron. But, they do have a talented core.
UKUGA
May 11th, 2010
10:26 am
jlewis,
the motivation for a UFA to do a sign&trade is the extra year, and increased $$$ on his contract.
That’s why a UFA would consdier helping out his current team.
WPinAZ
May 11th, 2010
10:30 am
You may remember I stated after last years draft that Woody would not give Teague any meaningful run, that Woody has no inclination to develop a young point guard such as Jeff Teague. Woody has no inclination to develop ANY players, actually. He is a coach who prefers veteran players with established reputations, players who can hit the floor running and need no TEACHING.
Now……contrast this approach in coaching to ALVIN GENTRY here in Phoenix. Alvin took over in MID SEASON last year for Terry Porter. Terry Porter’s approach was very similar to Mike Woodson’s: play only the established veterans, no trust or faith in the bench, very little offensive imagination or variety. Porter took a Steve Nash/Amare Stoudamire/Raja Bell/Shaq O’neill/Boris Diaw, run and gun, up and down the floor team, and turned it into a SHAQ first, slow it down, half court sets team. The players rebelled, publicly. Bell and Diaw spoke out about it and were traded to Charlotte. The team continued to lose, the fans were irate. Enter Alvin Gentry. The season was pretty much lost when he was given the job. He was asked to #1-improve the team DEFENSIVELY, and #2-explore or develop the bench to see who could or could not play. Who was on that bench that Terry Porter WOULD NOT PLAY? Goran Dragic, Jared Dudley, Lou Amundson, and Robin Lopez. None of thes players were “established” players in the NBA. Lopez and Dragic were rookies, Dudley came in the trade with Charlotte (along with Jason Richardson), and nobody ever hear heard of Lou Amundson. Gentry took over after All Star weekend. From that point to NOW, just look at how those same players who got NO RUN under Porter, have developed under GENTRY. Especailly Dragic (2nd rd draft pick from Slovenia–I dare you to say you had ever heard of him??) and Lopez (largely considered to be the far lesser talent than his brother in New Jersey?). Gentry gave these guys consistant and MEANINGFUL game minutes, not just mop up minutes, but crunch time minutes down the stretch with games on the line. He did it the 2nd half of last season, and continued that approach for the entire season this year. A year and a half. Look at that Phoenix bench now. See the minutes they get now – IN THE PLAYOFFS! SEE HOW PRODUCTIVE THEY HAVE BECOME! When you can sit Amare Stoudamire, Nash, J Rich for an entire 4th qtr, and still beat San Antonio on the road with your 2nd unit DOMINATING, to me, that’s a direct reflection of the COACH instilling confidence and trust in his BENCH players.
Don’t get it twisted. I live in Phoenix now, but I’m a die hard HAWKS and FALCONS fan. I’m not a Suns fan, but I am a BASKETBALL fan, and I do watch the local team. I have to give ALVIN GENTRY credit for how he established a very productive bench with a bunch of players no one really had ever heard of, or were just rookies. I look at that development (in just a YEAR and A HALF!!), and I look at my Hawks, and Mike Woodson, and It’s been 6 years, and we still have no bench, still have not developed a young, DRAFTED point guard. This is just my humble opinion, but I think the contrast here is ambundantly – and PAINFULLY – clear. This comes down to COACHING. Plain and simple.
wcj
May 11th, 2010
10:33 am
1.)D-Wade will want a 5/6 year deal for about 120/130 million dollars. Chris Bosh may ask for 5years at 90 millions, Joe Johnson may demand 5 years 80-85 millions. I dont know what the hawks salary cap is, but will they(management) be willing to pay thes salaries when management is always in court sueing each other?
2.) Who will the next coach be? : DOC Rivers, Avery Johnson, Byron Scott, or some young coach who can connect with todays players.
3.) Bradon Roy,TJ Ford, Tony Parker, Josh Childress, Bradan Haywood, Gerald Wallace could be new hawks if the GM can wheel and deal. Have some guts, management, you are losing fans, and this team is becoming a laugthing stock around the country.
Scott
May 11th, 2010
10:35 am
Spot on
jay
May 11th, 2010
10:35 am
I think the hawks got to get rid of woody and trade bibby, trade williams, get a big man that can protect the paint and let joe go he didnt perform again
WPinAZ
May 11th, 2010
10:38 am
C. MOORE …C. paul Aand D. Williams are great pgs…the only thing with them being in a Hawks uni if they were drafted to us would be if the old school coach Woody would have played them.
I agree with you 200%!! Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and any other young drafted point guard you want to mention would NEVER develop in Atlanta under Mike Woodson. This has been proven and is still being proven now with Jeff Teague. Sad but true. Paul and Williams would not be the players we know them as today, had they been drafted by the Hawks. Lucky for them!
OSCAR
May 11th, 2010
10:38 am
130rd ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
David Granger
May 11th, 2010
10:42 am
Pretty good points, Mark. It’s a sad truism in sports that sometimes the best coach at building a team is NOT the one who can turn around and get the most results out of it. Bobby Cox has proven that with the Braves.
hawkville
May 11th, 2010
10:49 am
Who is this real center everyone keeps talking about, because the names I see are funny, I mean real funny. They could have easily put Al at the 4 spot and played Za Za at the 5 spot and would have been good to go. But they had to play Marvin, number 2 pick. A little coaching and individual improvement and they will be alright.
Keep JJ
Crawford miss a bunch of shots and Marvin was just doing what he did for 82 games.
Is football season here yet.
The ATLien
May 11th, 2010
10:50 am
Mark,
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on Horford and Smith both starting at forward next year if we decide to pursue a more conventional center, which personally I’m not against. I read an AJC article recently (might have been yours – can’t recall, sorry) where the author said he wasn’t a believer in Horford being a 4. What do you think and why?
I thought Horford showed surprising quickness attacking the basket when he got the ball outside the paint a few times in the late regular season and round 1 of the playoffs. His jump shot may look funky, but it’s definitely much improved, and his shot selection is pretty good. He seems like the type of player with the motivation to learn and improve on his own, which makes me think he could handle the transition. He’s also become a more dominant rebounder despite being a bit shorter than many opposing centers, and I’d like to think he could carry that asset to the 4 position.
Hope to hear back from you!
— The ATLien
JASon
May 11th, 2010
10:51 am
Each of these points have already been discussed at length. We really didn’t need your “NBA man” now did we
Eric
May 11th, 2010
11:00 am
Fire woodson and adios joe. trade smith for someone who actually knows the game and doesn’t quit.
Mark Bradley
May 11th, 2010
11:11 am
Thanks for asking who I’d hire as coach: I’m about to tell you. Give me a few minutes.
(Oooh. Suspense.)
Blue Fox
May 11th, 2010
11:12 am
Paul Hewitt is nearby and available, Hawks, PLEASE take him!
John Koncak
May 11th, 2010
11:20 am
ok….ok….ok….i got it….here we go….
1st: IMO get a new management team…ASG just sucks big time.
2nd: Get rid of Sund. Horrible GM so far… The Jamaal signing was a GIFT from an old friend.
3rd: Get rid of Woody. Nuff said.
4th: Joe has got to go. Obviously.
5th: Marvin’s time has run out.
6th: Bibby’s days are numbered. Release him.
7th: Josh is the only player with any trade value. Sorry Josh. See ya.
8th: Everyone on the bench is worthless except for Jamaal and Teague. Get rid of the rest.
9th: KEEP AL!!!!
So…..lets see….that leaves Jamaal and Teague and Al and infinite possiblities.
GO HAWKS!!!!
MannyT
May 11th, 2010
11:20 am
I don’t dislike Woodson as a person. As long as he could produce wins, I’d agree to disagree with his lack of player development and stubborn refusal to add more running to the offense.
That said, if the players are’nt listening to you anymore, what value do you bring to the organization?
Time for a new coach.
WoodsonHatterHawksFAN
May 11th, 2010
11:24 am
I got to say this, RID the HAWKS of both WOODSON and JOE. Joe played awful and the lack of defense was down right pitiful. I watched four games in which the Orlando Magic inside outside game absolutely confused the Hawks defense what little there was. As I watch the game I felt like Cleo as I for told each play. Quite simple pass down to Dwight, Hawks double team, pass out from Dwight to one of the many Orlando 3 point shoots. Dwight is just one player, let him score, it was not Dwight so much Dwight that killed on the defensive end but those 3 point shooters.
Reality
May 11th, 2010
11:30 am
Hurry Mark!!!!! Please tell us!
Preacher Man
May 11th, 2010
11:35 am
This should be the team for next year!!!
Coach Woodson, replace him with Byron Scott or Bill Lambair (bruising D)
Joe Johnson, re-sign him, or try to get Dwayne Wade
Mike Bibby, let him be the sixth man, (or eighth).
Start Jamaal Crawford, and more playing time for Teague.
Josh Smith, the coach has to make him mature and he can truly be an
All-Star.
Marvin Williams, trade and get back Josh Childress.
Then draft a 7′2″ Center that can be feed and bulked up to guard the likes of Dwight Howard, Shaqueal O’Neal, Kevin Garnett.
Move Al Horford to power forward.
We just need a coach that can teach them to be physical and intimadate your opponents by hard fouls, and good defense. Continue to pass at least 4-5 times each possesion. That’s how they got such a big lead against Milwaulkee in Game 6, 3rd quarter, moving and passing. Then they stop in the 4th quarter. Same thing happened in the 4th quarter of game 5 when they had a big lead. They became conservative, and did that Joe-Iso thing too much.
They will get better from this experience.
nard 34
May 11th, 2010
11:38 am
the Hawks wont make the playoffs without Joe. You would be waiting another 3-4 years just to get to this point!!!! Trust me I’m a REAL HAWKS FAN NOT A BLOG GM…..
Greg
May 11th, 2010
11:38 am
If we were to get a true Center, I think Josh Smith would be part of the bait. I say that because he’s a natural 4 just like Horford and they aren’t going to split time at that position going forward. We can’t have a guy with no semblance of a consistent jump shot playing the majority of minutes at the 3 position so Josh is the odd man out in the front court.
Bottom line is the Hawks front court and back court are poorly constructed with no true PG and no pure C….the Magic dominated the Hawks at those positions and that made the rest of their players look better as well. To get a quality player via trade at either one of those positions, they are going to have to give some quality up. Bibby and Marvin might be “throw in’s”, but they obviously aren’t going to get us anything.
THREE
May 11th, 2010
11:43 am
Feel better now, wake up therapy is over. That will be $1500.00 please from all of you. Then I can afford to coach.
GT Fan
May 11th, 2010
11:57 am
Blue Hawk, as much as I hate Paul Hewitt I wouldn’t wish him on the Hawks. Please just let him move out of town asp.
If GT had a AD worth a crap…Hewitt would be gone!
jomo
May 11th, 2010
12:00 pm
Two wasted draft picks-Williams and Williams-might have cost Woody his job and prevented the Hawks from getting a big body to handle the Howards, Perkins, Shaqs, Bynums, etc. Did the front office think that Al was going to grow another 4 inches and gain another 30-40 lbs? It’s hard to really evaluate Woody because you’d be comparing apples and oranges. He took them as far as he could with what he had but they can’t match up with the big guys.
glenn
May 11th, 2010
12:06 pm
Joe Johnson will want to come back if we get another coach . He couldn’t handle Boston . NY or NJ would be even worse . I suspect he will be back & I suspect Bibby will be moved as well . I love the Bill Laimbeer idea . I think Avery Johnson & Sam Mitchell would be the most likely candidates to get the HC job . I wonder where Woody will coach next . He’ll get another shot .