Sorry, Hawks fans: D-Wade’s not walking through that door

You are correct, and neither is Bosh, this is a rebuilding team now, but with some nice pieces, I hope the correct decision is made on the new coach. I would make Skiles say no.

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So what are the Hawks supposed to do? Just stand pat? I suppose the ASG will sign a new coach but also get JJ for less than what they originally thought he’d cost this summer. A legit point guard would be a nice addition. Tony Parker might be available. Why not sign Bosh and then trade Marvin and Josh Smith to the Spurs for Parker?

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Mark, you said it all with your comment about the Atlanta Spirit Group. It is a pathetic ownership that has proven it will not spend the money to ever make the Hawks or Thrashers real contenders. This so called owneship is worthless, and until these teams have an owner in place that is truly committed to spending some money to bring or put a contending team in place it just won’t happen. This ownership is a disaster, and a joke. It has to be one of the worst ownerships in all of the major sports. I just wonder why people continue to spend money on their sorry products. Just ask Hossa if they wanted to field a winning team that could compete for a Stanley Cup. The real villians here are the ASG, and it won’t get better until someone else has ownership and operation of these sports teams.

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Dr Warren,

Not a bad idea, actually its a pretty good idea! But what about a SF?

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Mark: Everything makes sense, EXCEPT you did not mention what additional (reasonable) steps that the Hawks can take in order to improve their future. Signing Joe is an important, but status quo, move. What else do YOU think we should/can do (given some of the limitations that you are predicting will be in play this summer)? Is there a trade that would make sense? Can we re-sign Childress, then package him, one of the extra power forwards (you could argue that Marvin is a power forward as well!), and our draft pick in order to get a Center or Point Guard? Arguably, a Center is more critical, given we have Jamal Crawford (who as a starter would instantly be one of the top 5 point guards in the league) and Jeff Teague.

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Stretch–Childress could play small forward. But if not, then some other trade, perhaps for Childress’s rights, could bring a decent one here.

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MB,
as continuation from the previous blog on JJ and Woodson;
How much easier was it for players to tune out Woody if they know he has been a goner since last summer?

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Mark Bradley…..The bottom line for me is I still don’t want Joe Johnson even if the Hawks CAN’T get D-WADE. ( BTW, don’t underestimate his desire to get away from a crazy ex-wife. She may be our trump card. LOL!)

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I am a Joe Johnson fan but I am also a realist. There is no way we keep Joe johnson if we have to pay him max money. He has been a bust in the playoffs the last 2 years. A max money player should increase their production in the playoffs to help carry their team in hard stretches of tough games in the playoffs, but I have not seen that from Joe. He got a pass from me last year because he was tired and beat up from extended minutes played during the regular season, but he no longer has that excuse. Keep Joe only if the price is reasonable, if not, see ya Joe.

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Birds of a feather should flock together: Look at the people Dimitroff is adding to the Falcons roster – talented but with intelligence, character and work ethic. Mike Smith would never let one of his star players walk around the field the way Josh Smith wanders into defensive transitions.

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No, they probably won’t find one person better. But can they show some intelligence and sign (perhaps via sign and trade of Joe or straight-up trades of other personnel) multiple people for $18-20 mil/year that will improve the team more than re-signing Joe will? Of course they can!
Besides, your argument is so short-sighted. Shooting guards generally decline QUICKLY after age 30 and let’s look at Joe’s birth certificate- he’s not ‘young’ anymore in basketball terms. By re-signing Joe they will be pressed to re-sign Al Horford, continue at this plateau for one more season or two if they’re very lucky, and then be saddled with Joe’s ball-and-chain contract for the next 4 years.
That’s not to mention that Joe has never won over the hearts of the fan base with his demeanor, charisma, or leadership abilities. He did himself no favors on Saturday. If the major accomplishment this off-season is re-signing Joe, watch the fanbase decline along with the win column next year. Not because Joe is bad- nobody is saying that. He’s just proven that he’s not a big-game player or team leader. Great number 3 guy on the roster, but you shouldn’t pay max money for that.

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firing woodson will have the same effect as getting rid of johnson. what quality coach would come here if a gm would fire a 50+ game winner that has brought the cellar dwellers to the playoffs.

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You left out the part about who is president and spending us into oblivion and the higher taxes that are coming to everyone beginning next year. Of course those making over 200k get hosed the most. This trend will continue as the dems will coninue to spend until we turn into greece.

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You people still don’t get it. WE DON’T have 18-20 MILLION!!!! The only way we can spend that kind of dough on Johnson is because of Bird’s rights. He is our free agent, we can go above the cap. If we lose Johnson, we can replace him by signing a mid level player….not a max type player. That eliminates Wade and Bosh salaried players!!!!

We either re-sign Joe or do a sign and trade. However, we won’t get much back in a sign and trade because we have no leverage. Our options are to pay Joe and hope a new coach can change the dynamics of this offense or lose Joe and hope a John Salmons type of player can come in and pick up some of those points.

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I think this basically comes down to one decision. Joe Johnson or Coach Woodson? One of them have to go.

-Joe Johnson Pros
*Good Player.
*Demands Double Team.
*A top 15 player in this league.
*Terrific defensive player.
*Respected around the league.

-Joe Jonson Cons
*Dribble the ball entirely to much.
*Can become selfish on offense.
*Tends to dissapear in big moments.
*Iso Joe.

-Mike Woodson Pros
*Increased the team wins 5 years straight.
*Have never thrown one of his players under the bus, EVER!
*Defensive minded coach.
*Respected around the league.

-Mike Woodson Cons
*Can’t seen to/ nor believe in motivating players.
*Lack of a offensive scheme.
*Refuse to develop rookies.
*Iso Joe.
*Suspect defensive scheme.

So who will it be, Mike Woodson or Joe Johnson?

I feel that this is one of the most pressing issues regarding the Hawks success, you can’t keep both. Together they are a detriment to this team.

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Well Mark Bradley what do you do if Joe Johnson whants to walk. Have a sign and trade what about trade for Carmello Anthony or Dirk who is post player or how about Rudy Gay

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And I still say: Bring in Bosh!

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Curiously, in a supposed anti-incumbent year, most of the departing are not retiring but seeking higher office. We may recycle more than we replace. The bad news is that a frustrating 114 seats still have but one contestant. Two of them aren’t even incumbents, meaning they will affect state policy without being vetted by voters. And I have to think that we’d be better off if many had run instead for the Legislature — and cut down on the number running unopposed. Georgia’s problems are numerous. They aren’t going away. There’s too much stale thinking at the Capitol, on both sides of the aisle. New voices would be welcome.

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Mark you paint it as if there is only sign Joe or the unrealistic Wade-Bosh tradeoffs…that is silly. Bird rights also give you tremendous sign-trade options which should be heavily explored. Now if your reply is that no one would want to sign-trade for how expensive JJ would be…then you are proving the point that many have made…i.e. He is not worth RIGHT NOW max money and in 5 or 6 years that contract would be an albatross of gargantuan proportions

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Mark what Johnson is not it the 3rd best playoff scoring guard. He is not a player that makes others better and he is not a good enough ball handler to take many playoff opponents off the dribble and get the hoop and score (while that seems to be Woodson’s most favored play). They offered him $60 million, he didn’t want it so let him go and move on. Use that money to get what the Hawks need most a point guard. Someone who can penetrate and then dish off to Smith, Horford down low and out to Crawford for the three. This would more than offset the points Johnson scores. The past draft record of the Hawks (thanks to Billy Knight) has not been good. Imagine this team with Chris Paul instead of Marvin Williams and another good player like Brandon Roy which we could have had instead of Sheldon Williams. 50-plus wins means nothing if the team cannot compete against the elite teams in the NBA and this team obviously can’t. So let Joe go to NY or where-ever. Hang onto Horford, Crawford, Smith and Pachulia and get an experience coach who can make them a TEAM and use Joe’s salary to attract the point guard they need. If we drop bact to 40 wins for a couple of more years at least we know it is for a purpose.

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Agree that D-Wade is not coming, but I don’t think it’s because there’s no supporting cast. I think you swap him and Joe Johnson, and the Hawks would be good enough to win it.

Wade has everything that Johnson lacks.

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Look I am a lifelong Atlanta Hawks fan. I was in the stands during the 13-69 season and every since then there have been one consistant thing I have been saying FIRE MIKE WOODSON! The guy is incompetent, he gets outcoached hell Jason Kidd even put a veteran move on him, and we know his other flaws. (Dont develop rookies, lack of offense, switching,etc…) I agree with Mark Bradley and Joe has struggled. If you let him walk who is going to replace him? Please dont say Jamal Crawford because then who is coming off the bench to score? If a all-star calibar player is not coming then re-sign him for a reasonable deal. The ASG has got to spend some money and make some moves right now because or bench and depth is terrible. I say package Marvin, Bibby, first round pick to New jersey for Devin Harris and Courtney Lee especially if they get John Wall.

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go saints

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@ Dick….I’m guessing it’s not a stretch to say you lived up to your name. I’m sure you get that a lot though.

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Don’t lose perspective; it’s ONLY basketball.

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People can talk till they’re blue in the face about D-Wade and whether to re-sign Joe Johnson. The bottom line is that a front line of 3 6′8/9 guys isn’t going to win anything. Unless I’m wrong, just about every team to win an NBA championship has had an All-star quality 7-footer.

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But Mark and others who have posted here are right that Atlanta is not going to sign Wade or Bosh. I still think they shouldn’t resign Johnson even if they don’t have an immediate replacement for him. He’s proven two years in a row in the playoff that he is not an elite player when the chips are down and the team shouldn’t handcuff itself long-term by giving a max contract to a guy who is not a leader and is at best a second or third option on a championship team.

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Bosh is still someone I would like, despite the points you made, Mark.

With CB, you’ve got probably the game’s best 4/5 combo of him and Al. Josh isn’t a jumpshooter, as you pointed out, but I would have him slashing to the lane and let the Bibbys, Crawfords, and (cough) Josh Childresses of the world handle that.

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This is great news.
I didn’t think we had a shot, but now seeing that Bradley says it’s impossible…I’d list it as downright plausible.

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MC reported that the Hawks have “VOWED TO FIGHT FOR GAME FOUR.” Josh Smith and Company must think they’re being paid ‘by the word’ now.

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Screw D-Wade…Miami can have his whiney ass. I’d rather not have someone like that representing Atlanta!

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Woodson is a lousy coach, totally in over his head. Johnson is a streak shooter who can score against soft defenses. The “cancer” on this team is Josh Smith. The Hawks have little chance to win when a key player goes into sulk mode, walks up and down the floor for long stretches of games, putting his team into 5 on 4 situations. He then has the audacity to complain after the last game that the “ball was stuck on one side on offense”. Translation: “They didn’t get the ball to me so I could throw up jump shots”. If the Hawks had a real coach, Smith’s butt would be sitting on the end of the bench the first time he chose to go into his sulk and start walking up and down instead of playing. I think the Hawks take a serious step back next year if they keep this cast of characters.

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I never have been a fan of Woodson; however it’s simply not his fault.

Needs: 1. Point guard with heart, that can defend and not aging. Bibby a reserve at best. 2. A scorer who can drop 40-50 at teh drop of a hat, regardless of who he’s playing against. Jo Johnson a #2 option on a good team. 3. A center. Hortford is a power forward

Josh Smith is lazy and oftern shows little effort unless he’s dunking o blocking a shot. Whats up with a guy who can’t shoot a lick and your worst shooter, jacking three’s. Trade the home town boy.

Woodson and coached the team with improvement each year; again, I’m not a Woodson fan but I do not believe you have to motivate seasonedball players.

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Another embarrassing lost from yet another underachiever ,Atlanta pro ball team.
Atlanta deserve a winner , Woody have to go !

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Mark, while I agree that Dywane Wade isn’t coming to Atlanta and Chris Bosh isn’t needed, I still do not want to see Joe Johnson in a Hawks’ uniform next year. After his horrible performance in the playoffs (overall, not just Game 3), he has the nerve to say he doesn’t care about the fans?

Funny, because comments from some of the other players (Al Horford is one) indicate that, unlike Johnson, they get it. Unlike Johnson, they understand that the fans are disgusted with the level of play, especially in the Orlando series.

Maybe the Atlanta Spirit can’t get a “big-name” coach, and maybe they won’t spend to get a superstar free agent, but either way, I think Mike Woodson and Johnson have got to go. Sure, the Hawks aren’t the only second-round team going down in four games, but at least San Antonio was competitive in that series.

In the meantime, for the next 15 hours or so, someone needs to tell Woodson and Johnson that the next time they have a thought, just let it go – especially if there is a microphone or a tape recorder in their face.

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JJ has his faults but his faults would disappear if Woody was replaced by someone decent.

Get rid of Woody, get a center (Haywood), a veteran sf, and start Teague.

We will compete. As things stand now we have quit as a team and if things stay the same, next year will be a disaster.

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Hey, NEW CARS, what about basically trading away the rights to Pau Gasol for Shareef Abdur-Rahim. I believe that was Billy Knight’s original screwing of the Hawks.

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“If you’re D-Wade, why take a flier on the Hawks, who haven’t reached the conference finals since 1970″
What happened to the Bird-Dominique epic battles? I know some time has pased since then, but not 40 years.

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Here’s my proposed plan:
1. Don’t rehire Woodson because the players have tuned him out and because he won’t give rookie point guards a chance to play.
2. Don’t offer Joe Johnson a new contract unless you can work out a sign and trade and get back a point guard or another useful player or two.
3. Dump Mike Bibby if you can find anybody to take his contract. The same goes for Pachulia, who is a joke.
4. Bring Josh Childress back from Europe.
5. Draft point guards with every draft pick until you get one who can play. Top point guards aren’t always high draft picks. Tony Parker was picked by San Antonio late in the first round after the Hawks passed on him. Rajan Rondo was picked 21st in the first round, 16 picks after the Hawks took Shelden Williams. Nash’s backup for the Suns who dropped 23 points on the Spurs in the fourth quarter the other night was a 2nd round draft pick (by the Spurs, who traded him to the Suns). Manu Ginobli plays some point for the Spurs and he was a second round draft pick. Jameer Nelson was picked 20th in the first round of the draft by the Nuggets and traded to Orlando. Chauncey Billips was picked 3rd in the draft but subsequently traded multiple times and could have been had for a reasonable price.

The Hawks might already have a point guard in Jeff Teague but will never know as long as Woodson is there. Give him a chance to play and keep drafting and/or trading for young point guards. If you end up with two like the Cavs did way back with Mark Price and Kevin Johnson you can always move one to fill another need.

Anybody who watched the great games between the Suns-Spurs and/or the Lakers-Jazz this weekend could not help but notice how all those teams move the ball just like Magic do. When teams move the ball like that, guys like Jared Dudley, Channing Frye and Kyle Korver become big contributors. That is the direction the Hawks have to go.

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1. Sign and trade deal with toronto where we give j smith and the sign and trade bosh.
2. Bring Chill back
3. Sign and trade JJ for either a big man if available or a wing player.

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If you are earning your income in Georgia, you will pay state income tax on it.

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More importantly than any of the reasons given in this article, the Hawks have no cap space. In order to acquire anyone of Wade’s or Bosh’s caliber, they will have to sign-and-trade Joe at a near-max or max deal. As far as Wade goes, there’s no way in hell Miami trades him for Joe within the division.

As for Bosh, he is a fine scorer, but he has accomplished even less than Joe so far in his career as far as winning and advancing in the playoffs, and he won’t be able to guard Howard or Shaq any better than Horford can (in fact he would probably be significantly worse). Acquiring him means getting rid of Smoove or Horford, which basically means trading defense for offense without upgrading your ability to guard Howard. Trading for Bosh makes sense if you want the Hawks to be stuck exactly where they are.

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Here’s my pipedream plan:

1. Get a new coach who teaches ball movement on offense
2. Trade Josh Smith for Chris Bosh in a sign-and-trade
3. Trade Marvin and Teague for Devin Harris if the Nets land Wall
4. Resign Childress
5. Draft a backup Power Forward

PG: Devin Harris / Mike Bibby
SG: Jamal Crawford / Mo Evans
SF: Joe Johnson / Josh Childress
PF: Chris Bosh / [Draft a backup PF]
CR: Al Horford / Zaza Pachulia

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Why is everyone big on bring Josh Childress back? He avg. some where around 11 points per game and 4 rebounds. He is not even close to being an answer. Get rid of Josh Smith and Woodson. Get a true point guard. Sign and trade Joe Johnson. I like Horford and I like WIlliams (when given the same amount of attempts just as effective as anyone). But, for everyone saying bring J CHILL back please. He is another 6″7″-8″ guy playing the same position as the others.

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Bradley, if you want more of what we’ve been witnessing recently, then by all means bring back JJ. In fact let’s go ahead and pay him “max money” just because he wants it and gee, there doesn’t seem to be better options out there!!

Every season in the NBA unknown players step up and become stars, but the reason they do is 1. they are given floor time and 2. they are coached up.

Woodson should NOT be retained (we don’t need to regurgitate the many reasons why). He is incapable or unwilling to acknowledge the above 2 items. Case in point (no pun intended), why was Teague nailed to the bench??? Woody follows his mentors’ methods (Knight, L Brown) in NEVER trusting a young point guard, and now year 1 of our future PG has been wasted while we watched Bibby fail (horrible passer, mediocre ball handler, no leadership, streaky shooter at best, AND can’t guard mud).

But back to JJ. The simple fact is that he doesn’t fit this team. I look at Horford, Smith, Crawford, even Marvin, and I see gazelles. They absolutely play their best when running and pushing the tempo. That is NOT JJ’s game, and he’s poor at it. His game is post-up, back ‘em in, dribble the shot clock down and then take the shot. On days he’s on, he’s great, but on days he’s off OR when play-off level defensive intensity is there he’s embarrassing. The rest of the team stands around with NO movement which leads to nobody getting offensive rebounds….bad formula.

He is NOT a max player. He is at best a second choice, but if you overpay him here, the ASG can NOT afford to bring in a max player. So, JJ is likely gone, UNLESS:

You’re OK with continuing mediocrity. They can’t build on this playoff “run”, they can only become more fractured and decline. Count on it.

OR you spend enough money to get a very strong coach in here, and he can somehow get everyone on the same page. I sincerely doubt it.

Back to my original point. Unknown players make the big leap all the time. Time for Sund to earn his money and bring that guy in.

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Hey, New Cars, what about the Hawks basically trading away the rights to Pau Gasol in order to acquire Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Yikes. That was Billy Knight’s first screw job of the Hawks.

third time I’ve tried to post this…

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Why the hell aren’t my posts showing…

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I don’t know why Marvin gets ragged on so much. It’s pretty hard for a perimeter player to score a lot when he never has a single play ran for him.

The bottom line is either Josh or Al has to go. Both are tremendous players, but the fallacy that Al is a center is being debunked this post-season. He couldn’t muscle past Kurt Thomas, and Dwight is having his way with him. Either player should be able to bring back a blue-chipper on the perimeter, or possibly a legit starting center (Biedrins and change, perhaps?)

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I would go after Manu G if we lose Joe, he plays hard and mabey others will feed off that

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*Bradley. Really, both of you know so little about the NBA and write so sporadically about it relative to baseball and college sports that there’s no practical difference between you except in the amount of hair you have.

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Way to go nire — represent the Squawk!! [jhay610]

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I agree Patrick about Marvin. When he is given the chance he does well. Now I would still had rather had Deron or Paul but, he will be fine. I am not sure why everyone is still on J Chill’s jock. He has never really done anything over here or in Europe. I think that the best thing they could do is get rid of Josh Smith!!!! He is what brings this team down and will continue as long as he is here. Find a good point guard and sign and trade a package with him and Joe and let’s go from there.

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the hawks need to do get Will bynum to become their point guard, then ship joe johnson to golden state for Anthony Morrow.

Then they just need an inside presence. Why can’t these dumb big men (Yeah Marvin I am talking about you, Al Horford you to) watch tapes of kevin mchale and improve their game. Who on earth is coaching these clowns?

All Kevin Mac ever did was fake his opponents all the way to the hall of fame. Can’t these clowns head fake, dream shake, and move the opposite direction?

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The Hawks need a personality transplant. Maybe I’m unrealistic, but we need to let Teague run the offense and develop like other young point guards have in the NBA. We may lose some games. We may lose a lot of games. But by the second half of 2010-2011 we’ll be a more diverse, more athletic, more ball movement-oriented team. Obviously Woodson has to go in order for this to happen. But, if Teague can distribute, Johnson can do well again what he should – go to the hoop or pop open 3’s (not back in a dribble down 20 seconds off the shot clock). OR, even better, we get something for nothing and let Marvin – no, demand Marvin – become the athletic presence we’ve seen him be from time to time. Let Teague and Marvin take over this offense and bring in some beef to beat up Howard and Lebron. We may not win 53 games next year, but maybe we can beat some good teams on the road late in the year or in the playoffs. And, after Woodson is gone, hopefully this team will be done quitting.

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Can we please stop all the Hawk bashing and discuss how great the Magic are playing!!

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We can use Joe Johnson salary on Brendon Haywood and John Salmons.

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Dr. Warren hit the nail on the head, I’d look at the following:

- trading Josh for Tony Parker. Hopefully Pop would consider taking him.
- Move Al to the 4
- give Haywood the MLE and hope he doesn’t revert to being ‘Brenda’
- figure out what to do with Joe. If you can resign him reasonably do it; if not, move Jamal in at the 2 and bring back Childress (or trade him for some bench scoring)

You hope the draft pick contributes in some way, whether it’s a big like Alabi or a scorer, but the pick may have to go with Josh in my trade.

(oh yeah, I’m assuming a more creative offensive coach will be brought in, big assumption when dealing with the ASG, I know)

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Mark I don’t disagree but your same reason as to why we won’t get D-Wade is the same reason we won’t be able to keep Joe Johnson. A team like the Knicks or the Bulls when they strike out on both James and Wade will throw their money at Joe Johnson and out spend the Hawks to get him.

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Speaking of Al Horford if only Kevin Durant would have droped one more spot to 3rd we would be in the finals.

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Generally, what makes superstars work is you draft them. Honestly, I don’t think any “super-star” is really gonna work for the Hawks.

If the Hawks sign and trade JJ to NY for David Lee, we’ll get a solid 20-10 guy in the low post who shoots nearly 55% from the field. This will also give us insurance/flexibility when it comes to resigning Horford. Trade Josh Smith and get some veteran scoring off the bench like Stackehouse or a young point guard like Bynum if the Hawks are not going to develop Teague.

Bradley what makes not size

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My problem with Joe is that for the caliber of player he is, he lacks the leadership of the Wades, the Kobes, the Lebrons, even the Rondos of the world. Josh is the biggest vocal leader on the team but he’s too emotional.

It’s not a surprise that we lay down and quit when we get down big, look at the personality of our starters. Joe, Bibby, Al are all quiet. Josh is Josh, and Marvin is well…

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Sorry ryan but you would not be in the finals with one additional player.

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oh yeah, Brandon Roy is the 3rd best SG.

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Very sad to see what happened to OUR HAWKS!!!!!!!!! I think if we sign JJ to a max deal we will be in the same boat that JOHN KONCAK put us in years ago, Well JJ is alot better but as a LONG TIME hawks fan I know what a long term deal for an older player can do to a team. Plus we need to resign BIG AL! Don’t let him get away. Kills me seeing Teague in the game so early. HE HAS NO JUMPER!!!!!! The playoffs isn’t a place for him. Why does Smoove pull that I play when I want to stuff???? JUST DON’T GET WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR HAWKS??????????????????? Sad fan in chitown!

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Bradley, I feel like I would be comfortable letting Crawford fill in for Johnson and spending those dollars elsewhere. Just like has been mentioned, talent is not the issue for this team but chemistry is. A Center is a necessity and we may not find a bonafide star but i feel like its a bigger need. Joe Johnson may average 21 points but he gets them on 15+ shots. Take into consideration several come at the end of games when people start fouling and he goes to the line or if we are trailing big and defenses slack. He pads his stats. I have loved JJ’s tenure in ATL but I think we need to look elsewhere.

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sorry about that Zach. I didn’t know I was reading your mind.

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WHY isn’t Rick Sund on the hook?

Fire Woody? Screw JJ! To Hell w/ Smoove! Blah, blah, blah…but why is Rick Sund teflon?

Wasn’t he duped, into re-signing a washed up Mike Bibby, to an absurd contract?

Didn’t he trade for regular season 6th man, but playoff no-show, Jamal Crawford?

Didn’t he sign Mo “WTF” Evans?

And stop the BS, why did he draft Jeff Teague? Is that the best he could do?

I won’t mention Mario West, but dude, please…

We are moon walking under his leadership – where’s the improvement? Tonight we get heckled nationally by Kenny and Chuck and everyone will get panned except Sund. WHY?

What has he done right? Oh, he doesn’t talk to the press. Hip, hip, hurray….Other than that he’s a collassal turd. He played hardball and lost with Childress, he gave 7′0 Euroleague MVP David Anderson away for absolutely nothing.

WHAT HAS THE GUY DONE????

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Hey Mark!!!! Everyone is the 3rd best shooting guard in the league behind D wade and Kobe. There are a lot of players who can fill the role of scorer when Joe leaves. Draft one, sign one, but don’t keep Joe, thats just plain insanity. Plus, I’d rather have a SG who knows when to pass, than someone you know will chuck up some crap shot with the clock running down. I want ball movement!!!!!!!!

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Mike Woodson will not develope young player…………i.e Teague, Diaw, Law. If Rondo was drafted on this team, he would be riding the BENCH……….Woody would not play him. When Diaw was included in the JJ trade, he blossom ubder the caoch @ Phoenix. Marvin is being held back with Woody as the coach. You don’t need a veteran coach(i.e Coach Brooks @ Okla)to demand the player’s respect and know how to use his players to their best abilities. Until that coach is hired here….Keeping Woody is not the answer. I like Bill Lambeer, Kareem Jabbar, Mark Jackson, Pat Ewening, Armond Hill(former hawk). These are the candidates that should be consider for Woody’s replacement.

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I looked at the cap space and you will have to sign and trade in order to get D-Wade. It can be done, but you have to be creative. If JJ walks, he hits our cap space hard. That’s why you must be creative.

But if they did it, the Heat will be officially declaring themselves as a rebuilding team.

As far as Woodson, he’s the odd man out. They will let him go. There’s no other person that they can let go and they are going to blame somebody. Woodson will be the guy. It’s sad because he’s a good coach.

But the Hawks needs to clear up cap space in order to get D-Wade here.

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Dawgcrew- explain who we trade to get Chris Paul???? Does that involve a kidnapping?

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i forgot we had him. yeah do that!

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Here are some options to solve the point guard problem:

Sign and trade Joe Johnson for Tony Parker. George Hill is developing for San Antonio and Manu can also play the point. San Antonio needs to make some moves.

Trade with New Orleans for Darren Collison.

Trade with Minnesota for the rights to Ricky Rubio.

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2009 Draft Review

Hawks take Jeff Teague who has done absolutely nothing but looked lost.

Coulda shoulda

Darren Collison making Chris Paul expendable.
Rodrique Beaubouis future star in Dallas.
BJ Mullens true center.
Sam Young solid 1st yr. contributor in Memphis.
Marcus Thornton another very productive 1st yr. in NO.
Dejuan Blair all he does is rebound and defend.

Again, why is Sund not on the HOOK?

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Tyger ,

Did Sund say “I plan on bringing Teague along slowly” ?

Did Sund decree that Teague only play 10 mpg and almost exclusively with the other reserves that rarely get playing time?

Did Sund come out and get quoted as saying “I thought Teague played pretty good for a guy who doesn’t get to play much. It’s tough on rookies when they don’t get to play.”

Nope. Sund wasn’t the guy who did all that. The guy who did goes by a different name….

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jdewayneatl

Super atheletic… super fast… super exciting!!!!!!

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And absolutely no perimeter defense whatsoever. But this is what people always wanted. For us to be Golden St East. The run and gun, fast paced style that runs . . runs . . runs, but doesn’t play a lick of defense.

Monta had a fit this year because Nellie made him guard SGs. And while Monta is a big time scorer, he’s also a volume shooter. And not a very good deep ball shooter at all.

Teague would not be a starter with that group, because that backcourt is just too small to defend on the NBA level. Teague’s defense is in no way, shape, or form even close to Rondo’s. Rondo was a defensive terror even in college. Teague was a scoring PG.

So Ellis and Crawford would have to start in the backcourt. A lot of offensive firepower, but still no leadership in the backcourt.

Childress has NEVER been known for his defense, and needs to be wide open to get his jumper off. And we all know what Smoove and Horford bring to the table.

What the Hawks need, is to make a coaching change before they break up the core. But they also need to find guys who can balance out this roster. And that means finding a LEGIT PG and a LEGIT C.

We need a PG who can defend, get others involved, and get his own offense every now and then. And we need a C that can effectively defend the big centers in this league.

Dwight Howard is shooting 82% FG in this series . . . WOW !!

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mark,with the hawks making the playoffs they will not get a high draft pick.so that do you think about the hawks trading all there draft picks and get a center and point guard from other nba teams.
i would not keep jj and trade bibby to. if the hawks have any rights to childress if you can not get him,trade them before you can not get any thing.

i

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Mr. Mark Bradley, I think you are missing the point as are alot of others out there. Its become obvious that Joe Johnson no longer wants to play in Atlanta, nor may he even like it here. With that being said, I dont want him here. It’s not about what he is avergaing. I gurantee you if we keep him next season he will not average what he is averaging this season. It would be like a Hedo Turkoglu moment, but without getting traded. He might only stay for the money. Not even bother to play upto his potential.

@Brownie

Well said. I was really disappointed to see Teague on the bench so many times thru out the regular season. I can honestly say that I do see him being a starting PG very soon. I beleive if he was given more minutes with-in the season to develop his game, by mid season he could have had the starting job. The guy is so explosive and can score. Given that he does need to work on his handling, but thats where the whole point of giving him minutes to develop that comes in. Woody did not give him that opportunity.

@jdewayneatl

That is an awesome suggestion. Seeing as tho Golden State will be going more with Curry then Ellis, it could open up the door for a team like the Hawks to make a run at him. Nice heads up there.

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I think the top 2 things on Rick Sunds “To Do List” should be

1. Get a new coach
2. Replace JJ or do a Sign and Trade

Like many others, I also beleive that we should bring Childress back. I think playing in Europe ahs gotten him more better. He could replace Marvin, even tho I see ALOT of potential in Marvin. Just needs someone to take it out of him.

We need to get Teague more minutes and get him developed. Bibby has been out of his prime for some years now and is to slow to keep uo with alot of PGs today. Teague is insanely quick and we need to take advantage of that.

We DO NOT need Bosh. He maybe a better scorer then Josh or Horford, but he is not as aggresive on defense as they are. Horford and Josh make up atleast like what %70 of our entire teams defense? (Completely guessing btw) I just dont see a need for Bosh on our team.

One more thing, how dare any of you say that we need to get rid of Zaza? Who else will stand up to Garnett when he tries to get out of line!?

And last but not least….bring Mario West back!!

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Joe seems to me to play without competitive fire and probably really just cares about his contract. I get why he should care about his contract, but I can’t think of too many championship teams led by guys without that fire. Maybe Joe just needs a new coach to light that fire….

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Can the Hawks keep it under 30 tonight?

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I’m not a “capologist”, but I do understand numbers a little. So for all you “capologists” out there, if I’m saying anything wrong, please correct me.

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Projected salary cap for next year . . . . a little over 56 million dollars

Hawks committed salary next year . . . 47.6 million for 8 players ( and this is not counting the salaries of our 2010 1st and 2nd round picks . . and not counting Josh Childress’ cap hold . . . and not including re-signing Joe Johnson )

If Mo Evans exercises his player option for 2010 and opts out . . you’re talking about the committed salary dropping to 45 million.

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So for all of you who want to bring in these star free agents, this is what you need to look at.

If the salary cap is going to be around 56 million, we’re going to be around 9 million under the cap. Maybe close to 11 million if Evans opts out.

And remember. You can’t go over the salary cap to sign OTHER PLAYERS . . but you can go over the salary cap to re-sign YOUR OWN PLAYERS.

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But here’s where “cap holds” KILL you. Because as long as you own a player’s rights, the NBA will put a “cap hold” to prevent teams from just going out and signing unrestricted free agents, plus holding onto the rights of their own players that they haven’t re-signed yet. This forces that team to renounce, or give up that player’s rights, before they make major moves, making them an unrestricted free agent.

Cap holds of the Hawks going into the summer of 2010:

Joe Johnson: 16.2 million
Josh Childress: 10.9 million
Mo Evans: 3.25 million ( if he opts out )
Mario West: 1 million
Jason Collins: .85 million
Joe Smith: .85 million
Randolph Morris: .85 million

All of these guys are officially Unrestricted Free Agents ( if Mo Evans opts out of his contract ), with the exception of Josh Childress. And even though Joe Johnson is an UFA, he still has a cap hold on the Hawks, until we completely renounce his rights. So for us to free up that cap space money, we have to completely release JJ.

But it still doesn’t matter, because of JOSH CHILDRESS’ cap hold, which is a shade under 11 million. This virtually eats up all of the space we have under the cap, unless . . . we do the same thing to Chill, that we do to JJ. Completely release him. And that goes for the other guys as well.

So we can be 9 – 11 million under the cap, but we’d have to renounce the rights of all of those players, making them unrestrictred free agents. And unfortunately folks, being 9 to 11 million under the cap is NOT ENOUGH to bring in a D-Wade . . or a Bosh . . or any one of those other top level guys.

The only thing we can do, is sign and trade for people. And in JJ’s case, because he’s a UFA, he can simply go out and get his own deal, without consulting the Hawks. But the Hawks can’t make a move on the UFA market, unless they ( at minimum ) completely renounce the rights of JJ AND Josh Childress.

So the only weapon they have, is to try to come up with viable sign and trades. Not pipe dream sign and trades. Realistic ones.

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Talk some sense into these people northcyde.

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LOL DeepDiver. I just don’t want them to be confused about this situation. As much as people are down on JJ right now . . we are in a SERIOUS situation. Sund made a great move to bring Crawford in to compliment JJ as an additional scorer who could be the #2 and sometimes #1 option.

But when he did that, he effectively killed any chance of us being a MAJOR PLAYER in the 2010 free agent market. Remember . . . Speedy Claxton was an expiring contract going into this year and if we didn’t exercise the 2010 option on Acie Law, he would be a unrestricted free agent this year.

We’re talking about an additional 7.4 million dollars that could’ve come off the books, had we’d held onto those two guys this season.

Without Jamal Crawford’s 10.1 million that he’ll make next year, we could’ve been at least a fringe player in this free agent sweepstakes. For this year, that probably means that instead of winning 53 games, we win 48 games. I’ll give JC an impact of +5 wins for this season.

It was a damn good move to make, because we basically got JC for scraps. But it took us out of the 2010 free agent derby. And I believe now more than ever, that Jamal Crawford was fully meant to be the replacement for Joe Johnson, in the absolute worse case scenario ( which is playing out right now ).

We’ll finally get to see how good of a GM that Sund is this season.

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Mark,
You are right when you say who can you get and not over pay them in place of Joe Johnson. I would say you don’t have to overpay anyone. Look at my earlier post and you will see that through the draft we can definitely maintain the make-up of this team while getting younger, bigger, faster, and stronger. Sign and trade with Minnesota for Rubio, a lottery pick (hopefully Evan Turner), and a late first round draft pick. We will send them Joe and Mike and our draft pick or Joe and Josh Smith and our draft pick. What ever it takes. Thanks

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@northcyde. You make some very good points. I wasn’t familiar with all the rules about cap holds. We really don’t have many options this summer aside from maing a major trade. Still, overpaying for Joe because we’re in a pinch would be a big mistake. Those 5-6 max contracts for players his age can ruin things for years.
As for Childress, I remember him being a much better defender than that. I think he was a better perimeter defender than anyone we have on the roster right now, and that’s an obvious weakness for us.
It sounds like one of the easiest options is to spend upward. Re-sign Joe (he may be cheaper now) and Childress, then we have more chips to play with. That and the mid-level exception. The question then would be who is expendable to get another big. Obviously our roster as-is won’t get out of the 2nd round even if Childress comes back.

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@ryan, you’re right Brendon Haywood is not going to get you to the promised land, but he is a stop-gap who defends DH12 well (both in Wash and Dallas) and puts Horford and Smith back in their correct positions and he gives you the chance to after a real PG. Don’t know if you noticed these playoffs but the PG is the difference in have and have-nots. Nelson, Rondo, Nash each are the engine to their teams — then there’s OK, Chi and Port each over-performed due on “big part” to PG play. Then there’s a long list of loosers whos’ PGs (and teams) under-performed. The Hawks have a two guard who has just been prtending to be a pg (crawford).
About Wade, he knows his not going to get a solid PG in Miami this year. How good the Bulls be with with a Rose at 1 and Wade at 2 (not mention stong/young center)? In Miami best case gets Boozer or Bosh and has to face Orlando and a strong SE div 4 times a year. And, he’s made it known not thrilled about trading coaches either. A bulls team with Wade might have the hightest BB IQ.
Hey Dirk and Cuban are joined at the hip and if Amare gets the suns this far you won’t see enough money from the spirit to grab him away from the Suns. With a healty Lopez the Suns can make people forget LA. The best the Hawks can hope for good coaching a collection of bigs to throw at Dwight like bobcats did there aren’t that many good fives around you’re gonna overpay. I’d like to be Bosh’s agent right now!

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I agree that the Hawks will likely not get Wade and that Bosh is not what’s needed. However, I do not believe they should resign Joe Johnson. Joe Johnson is never going to be the type of player who can carry this team on his back at big moments in the playoffs. I would rather the Hawks try and get a legitimate center and a good spot up shooter to come off the bench. In terms of who the default shooter should be at the end of the clock, even as currently constituted, I would much rather have the ball in Jamal’s hands at the end of the clock than Joe’s as I trust Jamal more to make a better decision. I know what Joe will do in those moments–shoot at the end of the clock and hope that it goes in.

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I’ve been saying since last summer that too many people around were on oxycotin when discussing UFA’s and the Hawks. Joe Johnson has Paul Pierce’d himself! He better pray that his agent can either save him, or work a deal that gets out of the mess he made of his bargaining power by not producing…

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northcyde, trading for Crawford didnt make us a NON player in the 2010 free agent market, resigning Bibby and giving Marvin a long term deal did that. Those 2 guys eat up at least 12 million in cap space!!!

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I agree with many of the comments stated above and have actually had some of the exact same thoughts on many topics. First of all let me say, That Mike Woodson and Joe Johnson has to be terminated. Leaders can’t be good they have to be great and greatness come with passion that is not always centered around money. For example, Kobe Bryant is a great leader, great player and eventually evolved is a great team player all inspired by PASSION. PASSION can’t be taught. For players like Kobe it is about competition and wining and his fan base. That’s why I can respect his game. 80% of the time when he comes out he plays to win, broken fingers,etc. Thats definitely fueled by passion which Joe Johnson nor Mike Woodson do not have. They have no leadership skills at all. I think that Avery Johnson as coach will turn this team around because he has all of the necessary qualities. Sometimes with the right leadership you can make the best out of a bad situation, but you would not cut down the entire tree because of a few bad apples. The comments that Joe Johnson made are unacceptable because the fans help aide in his salary. Mike Woodson should have made him apologize for his unsportsman like behavior and he should have been fined by the league. If this had happened with more of the elite teams there would have been a fine and probably one game suspension. You can’t criticize the refs but you can torture the fans. The Atlanta Hawks marriage with JJ and Woodson should be ended due to non-reconcilable differences. Jamal Crawford definitely should be a starter. He played his role to the fullest. The difference! No matter where any of us go or do we should want to make a difference (good). Joe Johnson became jealous because fans saw JC leadership, humbleness, and willingness to step up. When Jamal got the 6-man award, he only mentioned 2 players that attend. Not Josh nor Joe. Can u say haters with a capital H. JJ comes from the woods of Arkansas where I am sure he let his family dictate to him and fill his head and eago up and it all shows on the court with what someone correctly stated above (ballhogging). Sacrificing games trying to put numbers on the board when Jamal was outscoring him off the bench. Don’t nobody owe you nothing Joe. You will never be of the type of caliber as Kobe or Lebron. You have the wrong attitude and thought process if you think that you can go to any team and they will pay a $60 plus contract without a fan base. There is no need for a game if you don’t have a fan base. You might as well stay home and play in your back your in front of your family and see how much they will pay you (no attention). Didn’t you go to school? Are you just a fool? With all of that being said, in order to have a clean your house, you first have to start by taking out the trash. As the wise old saying goes, you can’t keep doing the same thing expecting different results. Fans are passionate about the games to. When JJ leave Atlanta, he will probably end up with the same type of fate as Allen Iverson.

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As a devout hawks fan, I am entirely disgusted at the moment. Our hawks just got victimized by the Orlando Magic. The Atlanta Hawks. By the Orlando Magic. I am fully aware of the vast disparity in coaching ability, floor mechanics, and fundamental strategy. Talent-wise, we are on par, barring nit picking discrepancies. This playoff blunder is appropriate in such a sad and yet befitting way. Atlanta as a city, was never truly planned. Our streets zig-zag in utter illogical fashion, and we name them all the same. “If you’re looking for a good time check out the corner of M.Williams and S.Williams”. We don’t make progressive decisions to invest in the mobility of this city, instead we build aquariums. “Mike Bibby will solve all our problems”. But when all else fails to provide us any legitimacy as a city, the one thing that will separate us from the rest will be the Coke Museum. “Cue Joe Johnson”. And yes, I just compared Joe Johnson to the Coke Museum.

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I would do a sign and trade with Joe Johnson and get a good 3 point shooter, which he is not and an inside defender. Josh Smith is the star and Crawford is good enough to start. They need to spread the floor with a good penetrating guard which I believe Teague could be and have better 3 point shooting. The one-on-one ofense will only take you so far.

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All Wade cares about is money! If the hawks come up with a top financial packages, with tons of cash, huge bonus and incentives, Wade will take the offer. He’ll want at least $20-$25 mil per year plus benefits, etc., but he’ll be worth all that cash.

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Mark, you don’t keep a player because you can’t “find” anyone to replace him. Get rid of Johnson. His one-on-one needs don’t fit within a team offense concept. How about this? Go out and get a guy like John Salmons (who I think is a free agent). Trade J-Smooth and a first round pick to Golden State and see if you can get Stephen Curry (Smith and Horford play the same spot…no need for both). Then search for a true center in the off season. Someone who can give you 14 and 14 a night with a strong defensive prescence. BTW, Marvin is great off the bench but a bust starting. And bring back J-Chill….at least he brought energy and defensive prowness coming off the bench.

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