Sorry, Hawks fans: D-Wade’s not walking through that door
Joe guards Dwyane. They're not interchangeable, y''know. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
Believe it or not, I do read your comments. Regarding the Hawks, your prevailing sentiment — after the one that goes, “Fire Woody” — is that the team should let Joe Johnson leave and sign Dwyane Wade (or Chris Bosh, or somebody) to replace him. Sounds easy, I admit. But it wouldn’t be. Here’s why.
Wade works for the Miami Heat, which is owned by Micky Arison, who could buy and sell all the Atlanta Spirit partners put together. (Arison owns Carnival Cruise Lines.) The team is run by Pat Riley, who has won five NBA titles and who’s thinking about coaching again. Together, Arison and Riley and Wade won the 2006 NBA title, so they know it can be done there.
If you’re D-Wade, why take a flier on the Hawks, who haven’t reached the conference finals since 1970 and who had the lowest payroll of any of the 16 playoff teams this season? Why come where there’s no assurance the owners will ever spend big enough to assemble a deep enough supporting cast?
And there’s this: Wade is undergoing a messy divorce that will surely turn expensive. There’s no state income tax in Florida. (There is here, as we know.) That mightn’t sound like a big deal to a man who’ll be making nearly $20 million per season for playing basketball, but hey … every little bit helps, especially at alimony time.
There’s also this: If Wade leaves, Arison’s team collapses. The Heat cannot afford to lose him, and when you’ve got a man as loaded as Arison paying the bills and a man as driven as Riley running the operation … well, such men tend to get what they want. It’s hard to imagine that crew being outflanked by the Spirit, an outfit that couldn’t even keep Josh Childress.
OK, you’re saying, but what about Bosh? He’s obviously interested in leaving Canada — last week he changed his Twitter location from “Toronto” to “everywhere” — but is he what the Hawks need? He’s a power forward, same as Josh Smith, same as some people (I’m not one) claim Al Horford is. Would you want a front line of three 4’s and no 5’s or 3’s? Who would play on the perimeter? Smith? Given that folks groan whenever he rises to take a jump shot, is that advisable?
And if you let Johnson leave, who’s the default shooter with five seconds left on the shot clock? Smith? Horford? Jamal Crawford? Say what you will about Joe — and most of you have — but he welcomes those moments and has proved himself capable, though not this spring, of making such shots.
Johnson averaged 21.1 points this season, 11th-best in the league. If he leaves, those points would have to be made up somewhere. Who’s going to do it? Neither Horford nor Smith is a pure scorer — good players, yes, but not pure scorers. Is Marvin Williams apt to double his average? (We pause now to laugh really hard.) Is Mike Bibby capable of averaging even 10 points a game?
I say again: You might not like the way Johnson plays — I myself soured on Iso-Joe last season — but you can’t deny he puts up big numbers. He’s not Kobe or D-Wade, but he’s the third-best shooting guard in the league. Unless the Hawks can find someone better, they’re better off sticking with Joe. And they won’t find anyone better.
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191 comments Add your comment
papadawg
May 10th, 2010
8:29 am
Hawks Done, Braves Suck so when is the First Falcons Game
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
8:31 am
People can talk till they’re blue in the face about D-Wade and whether to re-sign Joe Johnson. The bottom line is that a front line of 3 6′8/9 guys isn’t going to win anything. Unless I’m wrong, just about every team to win an NBA championship has had an All-star quality 7-footer.
ryan
May 10th, 2010
8:32 am
Yea i agree there is hope the Hawks can get a Superstar player the Hawks can be an atracking team making the playoffs for 3 seasons and past the 2nd round which D. Wade has not done since Shaq was there. Steve Belken is no longer there ! So it can happen this Summer with free agency so deep.
DP
May 10th, 2010
8:33 am
But Mark and others who have posted here are right that Atlanta is not going to sign Wade or Bosh. I still think they shouldn’t resign Johnson even if they don’t have an immediate replacement for him. He’s proven two years in a row in the playoff that he is not an elite player when the chips are down and the team shouldn’t handcuff itself long-term by giving a max contract to a guy who is not a leader and is at best a second or third option on a championship team.
NikkiFree
May 10th, 2010
8:36 am
@ DP….Well said!!!
Benjamin
May 10th, 2010
8:36 am
Bosh is still someone I would like, despite the points you made, Mark.
With CB, you’ve got probably the game’s best 4/5 combo of him and Al. Josh isn’t a jumpshooter, as you pointed out, but I would have him slashing to the lane and let the Bibbys, Crawfords, and (cough) Josh Childresses of the world handle that.
Benjamin
May 10th, 2010
8:37 am
Re: those knocking Joe Johnson, I do want to point out the obvious:
Five years ago, we would’ve been THRILLED for a second round sweep at the hands of Orlando. Joe’s done a lot more for this franchise than a lot of people want to admit. He’s the primary reason we’re no longer a lotto team year in and year out.
jarvis
May 10th, 2010
8:38 am
This is great news.
I didn’t think we had a shot, but now seeing that Bradley says it’s impossible…I’d list it as downright plausible.
Benjamin
May 10th, 2010
8:39 am
lol
Jarvis does have a point…
Willy
May 10th, 2010
8:43 am
MC reported that the Hawks have “VOWED TO FIGHT FOR GAME FOUR.” Josh Smith and Company must think they’re being paid ‘by the word’ now.
MiltonHoops
May 10th, 2010
8:45 am
Hey JEWELL: turn off the CAPS. please.
F*WADE
May 10th, 2010
8:46 am
Screw D-Wade…Miami can have his whiney ass. I’d rather not have someone like that representing Atlanta!
MiltonHoops
May 10th, 2010
8:46 am
But, JEWELL, good comment. thanks.
Just me
May 10th, 2010
8:46 am
Woodson is a lousy coach, totally in over his head. Johnson is a streak shooter who can score against soft defenses. The “cancer” on this team is Josh Smith. The Hawks have little chance to win when a key player goes into sulk mode, walks up and down the floor for long stretches of games, putting his team into 5 on 4 situations. He then has the audacity to complain after the last game that the “ball was stuck on one side on offense”. Translation: “They didn’t get the ball to me so I could throw up jump shots”. If the Hawks had a real coach, Smith’s butt would be sitting on the end of the bench the first time he chose to go into his sulk and start walking up and down instead of playing. I think the Hawks take a serious step back next year if they keep this cast of characters.
Panther08
May 10th, 2010
8:46 am
Good Point…but we can’t win a championship with Joe “NOT CLUTCH” Johnson…he is a Number 2 guy trying to be Number 1 on a team….We need to bring in a Number 1 guy if we want to win BIG!!!
Todd
May 10th, 2010
8:54 am
I never have been a fan of Woodson; however it’s simply not his fault.
Needs: 1. Point guard with heart, that can defend and not aging. Bibby a reserve at best. 2. A scorer who can drop 40-50 at teh drop of a hat, regardless of who he’s playing against. Jo Johnson a #2 option on a good team. 3. A center. Hortford is a power forward
Josh Smith is lazy and oftern shows little effort unless he’s dunking o blocking a shot. Whats up with a guy who can’t shoot a lick and your worst shooter, jacking three’s. Trade the home town boy.
Woodson and coached the team with improvement each year; again, I’m not a Woodson fan but I do not believe you have to motivate seasonedball players.
KCG
May 10th, 2010
8:54 am
Okay, if we sign JJ back I have 2 trade scenarios that I think are realistic and could work. Trade JJ and Josh Smith for either Rudy Gay and Mark Gasol of the Grizzlies or Devin Hester and Lopez (I can’t remember his first name) of New Jersey. I think either one of these moves will make the Hawks better and Al Horford can be the new leader of this team. Also, bring back Chillz and have Marvin coming off the bench. Oh yeah, we need a new coach to.
Scott
May 10th, 2010
9:00 am
Another embarrassing lost from yet another underachiever ,Atlanta pro ball team.
Atlanta deserve a winner , Woody have to go !
Derrick
May 10th, 2010
9:00 am
Please don’t over think this people. Only one (maybe two) changes need to be made. And that is get rid of Woody. It’s sad to think that Woody has had increasing wins every season, but I attribute that to more talented players coming in each season. (you could drop Bibby too,but I know how you all love Mike – don’t know why). I attended several regular season games and playoff games and it is obvious that the team just has no plays or sets to run. Clear signs of inefficient coaching.
Reid Adair
May 10th, 2010
9:01 am
Mark, while I agree that Dywane Wade isn’t coming to Atlanta and Chris Bosh isn’t needed, I still do not want to see Joe Johnson in a Hawks’ uniform next year. After his horrible performance in the playoffs (overall, not just Game 3), he has the nerve to say he doesn’t care about the fans?
Funny, because comments from some of the other players (Al Horford is one) indicate that, unlike Johnson, they get it. Unlike Johnson, they understand that the fans are disgusted with the level of play, especially in the Orlando series.
Maybe the Atlanta Spirit can’t get a “big-name” coach, and maybe they won’t spend to get a superstar free agent, but either way, I think Mike Woodson and Johnson have got to go. Sure, the Hawks aren’t the only second-round team going down in four games, but at least San Antonio was competitive in that series.
In the meantime, for the next 15 hours or so, someone needs to tell Woodson and Johnson that the next time they have a thought, just let it go – especially if there is a microphone or a tape recorder in their face.
NEW CARS
May 10th, 2010
9:03 am
Everyone talks about getting Marvin Williams instead of Deron Williams or Chris Paul….But what if we had taken Rajon Rondo instead of Shelden Williams….Rondo, the Joshes, Marvin and JJ with Zaza could have been special….Joe would be better in the long run with a true point guard that allowed the ball to move more…It is a sad indictment of the state of the league that JJ is the third-best shooting guard, although I would take Brandon Roy over him in a minute and might take Ginobili as well, or Tyreke Evans…..
Dap01
May 10th, 2010
9:05 am
JJ has his faults but his faults would disappear if Woody was replaced by someone decent.
Get rid of Woody, get a center (Haywood), a veteran sf, and start Teague.
We will compete. As things stand now we have quit as a team and if things stay the same, next year will be a disaster.
EW
May 10th, 2010
9:07 am
Fair enough, but does Joe wanna stick around?
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
9:17 am
Hey, NEW CARS, what about basically trading away the rights to Pau Gasol for Shareef Abdur-Rahim. I believe that was Billy Knight’s original screwing of the Hawks.
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
9:19 am
Hey, New Cars, what about the Hawks basically trading away the rights to Pau Gasol in order to acquire Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Yikes. That was Billy Knight’s first screw job of the Hawks.
Appdude
May 10th, 2010
9:26 am
“If you’re D-Wade, why take a flier on the Hawks, who haven’t reached the conference finals since 1970″
What happened to the Bird-Dominique epic battles? I know some time has pased since then, but not 40 years.
blazerdawg
May 10th, 2010
9:30 am
ASG may not be the wealthiest ownership group in the NBA, but they are certainly the most concerned and involved. Some of the members of that group are very committed to Atlanta, and the Hawks may have been gone already if it were not for them. (I know, I know, let’em go; but everyone would want another NBA franchise in ten years – look at Seattle)
I did not agree with the Thrashers recent organizational changes, but I think that promoting Woody to Asst. GM, or VP of Player Development would maintain a valuable individual, and then the Hawks could obtain a new head coach that may possess a more discliplined approach and a focus on game tactics.
DP
May 10th, 2010
9:31 am
Here’s my proposed plan:
1. Don’t rehire Woodson because the players have tuned him out and because he won’t give rookie point guards a chance to play.
2. Don’t offer Joe Johnson a new contract unless you can work out a sign and trade and get back a point guard or another useful player or two.
3. Dump Mike Bibby if you can find anybody to take his contract. The same goes for Pachulia, who is a joke.
4. Bring Josh Childress back from Europe.
5. Draft point guards with every draft pick until you get one who can play. Top point guards aren’t always high draft picks. Tony Parker was picked by San Antonio late in the first round after the Hawks passed on him. Rajan Rondo was picked 21st in the first round, 16 picks after the Hawks took Shelden Williams. Nash’s backup for the Suns who dropped 23 points on the Spurs in the fourth quarter the other night was a 2nd round draft pick (by the Spurs, who traded him to the Suns). Manu Ginobli plays some point for the Spurs and he was a second round draft pick. Jameer Nelson was picked 20th in the first round of the draft by the Nuggets and traded to Orlando. Chauncey Billips was picked 3rd in the draft but subsequently traded multiple times and could have been had for a reasonable price.
The Hawks might already have a point guard in Jeff Teague but will never know as long as Woodson is there. Give him a chance to play and keep drafting and/or trading for young point guards. If you end up with two like the Cavs did way back with Mark Price and Kevin Johnson you can always move one to fill another need.
Anybody who watched the great games between the Suns-Spurs and/or the Lakers-Jazz this weekend could not help but notice how all those teams move the ball just like Magic do. When teams move the ball like that, guys like Jared Dudley, Channing Frye and Kyle Korver become big contributors. That is the direction the Hawks have to go.
Manny
May 10th, 2010
9:32 am
The knee-jerk reaction is to “Fire Woody.” But if Joe Johnson was a leader, he wouldn’t have made the comments about the fans. And he wouldn’t melt down during the last game. And he wouldn’t allow other members of the team to melt down without doing something about it.
Right now, this team is led by Al Horford. Josh Smith is an emotional cannonball, but he takes plays off. But Al and Josh are the leaders. That’s not a lot to work with.
Locker chemistry dictates that we need someone like D-Wade.
Now let’s make the argument FOR D-Wade. First of all, working in Atlanta will not change his status as a Floridian. He can still get paid as a Floridian. Plus, if you get rid of JJ, the Spirit should have the money to max out the contract.
Second- the championship pieces is already here in Atlanta. You have the young, athletic players. You have players with positive playoff experience. You’re nice at every position (except center.) The Hawks aren’t that far away.
Pound-for-pound, the Hawks stack up much better than the Heat. Or the Celtics. Or the Cavs, for that matter. And if we had some good leadership on the floor, we can beat the Magic. The Hawks is talented through and through.
Here’s the absolute bottom line. If the Heat re-signs D-Wade, they will still be about 2 or 3 players away from competing for a championship. IF the Hawks sign D-Wade, the Hawks will be in the Top 2 in the East. That’s championship right now. Getting a couple pieces and trying to gel them is at least 2 seasons away.
If D-Wade wants to hoist a trophy up in 2011, the fastest way to do that is to join the Hawks. Not the Cavs (who can’t afford him), not the Heat (who’ll STILL need some more pieces), but the Hawks.
Bangladesh
May 10th, 2010
9:35 am
1. Sign and trade deal with toronto where we give j smith and the sign and trade bosh.
2. Bring Chill back
3. Sign and trade JJ for either a big man if available or a wing player.
New Lineup
May 10th, 2010
9:38 am
Let Joe sign with NY or do a sign and trade w/ NY for a good perimeter defender or cash. Hopefully, have enough $ to make a strong push at Bosh and sign him. Trade Josh Smith for Collison. New starting five: Collison, Crawford, Horford, Williams, and Bosh. Bibby can come off the bench–no one wants him. Somewhere out there, find that hard-nosed, veteran big man that can come off the bench and guide some of these young players. Look at the San Antonio and Detriot blueprint that they have used in the past.
Sonny
May 10th, 2010
9:41 am
If you are earning your income in Georgia, you will pay state income tax on it.
Switch to AT&T, D-Wade!
May 10th, 2010
9:43 am
D-Wade isn’t coming to Atlanta, because his T-Mobile phone won’t work in most places here to due that provider’s pathetic coverage area.
Najeh Davenpoop
May 10th, 2010
9:43 am
More importantly than any of the reasons given in this article, the Hawks have no cap space. In order to acquire anyone of Wade’s or Bosh’s caliber, they will have to sign-and-trade Joe at a near-max or max deal. As far as Wade goes, there’s no way in hell Miami trades him for Joe within the division.
As for Bosh, he is a fine scorer, but he has accomplished even less than Joe so far in his career as far as winning and advancing in the playoffs, and he won’t be able to guard Howard or Shaq any better than Horford can (in fact he would probably be significantly worse). Acquiring him means getting rid of Smoove or Horford, which basically means trading defense for offense without upgrading your ability to guard Howard. Trading for Bosh makes sense if you want the Hawks to be stuck exactly where they are.
JSS
May 10th, 2010
9:44 am
Once again, it’s alive!!!
Ladies and Gentlemen… The BUGKILLER ill-logical comment of the day…
Today brought to you by “Potty John”
Clearing my throat… We EXTENDED Josh Smith last year when we matched Philadelphia’s offer to him!
Horford is not a problem unless he decides that he wants to walk… We are his MAX OPTION!!! When he is UFA eligible, is the year after the really great free agents are available. The well will be dry! So genius, the only teams with cap room will be Toronto, the Clippers, Washington, the Nets, Detroit and maybe San Antonio (under a specific set of circumstances)…
Jesse
May 10th, 2010
9:46 am
Here’s my pipedream plan:
1. Get a new coach who teaches ball movement on offense
2. Trade Josh Smith for Chris Bosh in a sign-and-trade
3. Trade Marvin and Teague for Devin Harris if the Nets land Wall
4. Resign Childress
5. Draft a backup Power Forward
PG: Devin Harris / Mike Bibby
SG: Jamal Crawford / Mo Evans
SF: Joe Johnson / Josh Childress
PF: Chris Bosh / [Draft a backup PF]
CR: Al Horford / Zaza Pachulia
NCHawksFan
May 10th, 2010
9:51 am
I know it is frustrating to be a Hawks fan right now. But don’t forget where we were 3-4 years ago. I know we wanted to get further or at least show up bigger in the 2nd round. But don’t forget our talent is not as good as Orlando and we don’t have a way to match up against them at all. Don’t forget that the last time we had 50 wins we blew up the team to rebuild. We didn’t re-sign our players who averaged 18-22points a game and we thought we could just build by going young again. How did that work out for us? Unfortuntately, the NBA structures it cap and teams to only allow for a few top level teams. Unless you happen to be so bad that you get lucky on the one year Lebron or some other big time player comes out then you will be stuck in mediocrity. The only other option is to keep the core team. I think we don’t have a choice but to sign Joe Johnson. We re-sign him and add a piece or 2. This will allow us to stay at 50+wins and not fall back to 30-35 wins and not get a good pick or good free agents.
Then, if necessary make trades. NBA is built on 2 things. Making the right trades or drafting the franchise player. Unfortunately the Hawks have not done either. We can’t go back and do what if’s but we can look forward.
NOT Signing Joe Johnson will only make us a 32-42 win team. Maybe good enough to make playoffs but nothing more. We CAN’T afford to not sign Joe. If we can’t get another max player we have to – even if it is to trade him in a year or 2.
jch2523
May 10th, 2010
9:52 am
Why is everyone big on bring Josh Childress back? He avg. some where around 11 points per game and 4 rebounds. He is not even close to being an answer. Get rid of Josh Smith and Woodson. Get a true point guard. Sign and trade Joe Johnson. I like Horford and I like WIlliams (when given the same amount of attempts just as effective as anyone). But, for everyone saying bring J CHILL back please. He is another 6″7″-8″ guy playing the same position as the others.
Bangladesh
May 10th, 2010
9:53 am
i really like the collison or harris idea. Collison is a beast, he just needs playing time, something hes not gonna get in NO behind CP3.
Brownie
May 10th, 2010
9:54 am
Bradley, if you want more of what we’ve been witnessing recently, then by all means bring back JJ. In fact let’s go ahead and pay him “max money” just because he wants it and gee, there doesn’t seem to be better options out there!!
Every season in the NBA unknown players step up and become stars, but the reason they do is 1. they are given floor time and 2. they are coached up.
Woodson should NOT be retained (we don’t need to regurgitate the many reasons why). He is incapable or unwilling to acknowledge the above 2 items. Case in point (no pun intended), why was Teague nailed to the bench??? Woody follows his mentors’ methods (Knight, L Brown) in NEVER trusting a young point guard, and now year 1 of our future PG has been wasted while we watched Bibby fail (horrible passer, mediocre ball handler, no leadership, streaky shooter at best, AND can’t guard mud).
But back to JJ. The simple fact is that he doesn’t fit this team. I look at Horford, Smith, Crawford, even Marvin, and I see gazelles. They absolutely play their best when running and pushing the tempo. That is NOT JJ’s game, and he’s poor at it. His game is post-up, back ‘em in, dribble the shot clock down and then take the shot. On days he’s on, he’s great, but on days he’s off OR when play-off level defensive intensity is there he’s embarrassing. The rest of the team stands around with NO movement which leads to nobody getting offensive rebounds….bad formula.
He is NOT a max player. He is at best a second choice, but if you overpay him here, the ASG can NOT afford to bring in a max player. So, JJ is likely gone, UNLESS:
You’re OK with continuing mediocrity. They can’t build on this playoff “run”, they can only become more fractured and decline. Count on it.
OR you spend enough money to get a very strong coach in here, and he can somehow get everyone on the same page. I sincerely doubt it.
Back to my original point. Unknown players make the big leap all the time. Time for Sund to earn his money and bring that guy in.
jdewayneatl
May 10th, 2010
9:54 am
I like JJ. I really do. I would love to see this team stick it out (bringing back J-Chillz) and going far. This team has been built on consistency of organization (no matter how discombobulated it may have been at times via ownership, coach-player relationships, draft picks, etc) and persistence. But the fact is JJ is gonna be old soon. Now Teague could very well be our Rondo, in the sense that by the time Joe is on the downturn, Teague will be able to run this team well enough to counter Joe’s fails.
But I will offer my round of a replacement through my trade and free agent speculation.
I would like to propose a 3-team sign-and-trade involving Atlanta, Chicago, and Golden State.
Chicago gets Joe Johnson, Golden State gets Kurt Hinrich and Luol Ding, and Atlanta gets Monta Ellis and maybe Anthony Randolph.
I all for Monta Ellis coming to the A… The guy is a much better scorer than Joe, averaging 25.5 ppg and if you check the numbers they are very similar to Joe’s in every category. He may not be as good as an on-ball defender as Joe but he does avg more steals.
Monta Ellis would be a great pick up! He is cheaper to come by than Joe’s contract and he is younger. This team would be a playoff team for the next ten years at least. Al Horford will be our undeniable leader for the forseable future and Ellis would make this team that much more dangerous and explosive.
Also, bring Chillz back and start him at SF. Marvin looks like his career will be that of a role player and Chillz has been balling in Europe. Marvin can either back up Josh at PF or Chillz at SF. We would be a better team and a team that will compete.
Teague – Bibby
Ellis – Crawford
Childress – Williams
Smith – Randolph
Horford – Zaza
Super atheletic… super fast… super exciting!!!!!!
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
9:57 am
Hey, New Cars, what about the Hawks basically trading away the rights to Pau Gasol in order to acquire Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Yikes. That was Billy Knight’s first screw job of the Hawks.
third time I’ve tried to post this…
JSS
May 10th, 2010
9:58 am
@Mark Bradley…
Am I in your comment filter?
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
9:58 am
Why the hell aren’t my posts showing…
Halsey
May 10th, 2010
10:00 am
Finally. Anyway, someone brought up bad moves the Hawks have made in the past. Here’s one that people forget: Basically trading the rights to Pau Gasol to get Shareef. Ouch.
Patrick
May 10th, 2010
10:04 am
I don’t know why Marvin gets ragged on so much. It’s pretty hard for a perimeter player to score a lot when he never has a single play ran for him.
The bottom line is either Josh or Al has to go. Both are tremendous players, but the fallacy that Al is a center is being debunked this post-season. He couldn’t muscle past Kurt Thomas, and Dwight is having his way with him. Either player should be able to bring back a blue-chipper on the perimeter, or possibly a legit starting center (Biedrins and change, perhaps?)
Chris
May 10th, 2010
10:06 am
I think Joe is a good fit. We just don’t have a coach who runs offensive plays! If we had someone like Avery Johnson?…maybe we wouldn’t have so many iso plays.
Decatur Native
May 10th, 2010
10:08 am
I would go after Manu G if we lose Joe, he plays hard and mabey others will feed off that
niremetal
May 10th, 2010
10:10 am
HA! This is amazing. It gives all the reasons the Hawks couldn’t get Wade except the real one:
THE HAWKS HAVE NO CAP SPACE.
Congratulations on continuing to prove that you have no knowledge of the NBA, Schultz. Go back to covering baseball and college sports like you usually do, and leave the NBA matters to Cunningham.
niremetal
May 10th, 2010
10:11 am
*Bradley. Really, both of you know so little about the NBA and write so sporadically about it relative to baseball and college sports that there’s no practical difference between you except in the amount of hair you have.