Like it or not, the Hawks can’t afford to dump Joe Johnson
One of these three probably won't be back next season. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
It’s danger time for the Hawks, and not as regards the 2010 playoffs. That’s a done deal. The danger lies beyond. The danger lies in overreaction.
With the exception of four well spaced games against Milwaukee in Round 1, the Hawks have been terrible this postseason. To watch them is to forget they won 53 games and are the East’s No. 3 seed. But that’s the point: We can’t forget, or we shouldn’t.
At the moment, the temptation is great to say the Hawks need to start over. Of all people in all cities, we should know better. Because we in Atlanta suffered through a wretched half-decade of what starting over means. (Mike Woodson gave a one word-description Sunday: “Hell.”) It means going 13-69. It means depending on the ping-pong balls to bounce your way and depending on your GM not to pick a guy named Williams.
The Hawks are going to lose in Round 2 for the second consecutive season. Last year they were hurt and had no chance; this time they’ve given themselves no chance. They have issues regarding mesh and direction, and it’s possible some of that could be corrected by importing a new coach.
But let’s say you bring in Doug Collins or Avery Johnson or Bryon Scott (or, more likely, Dwane Casey). The best coach cannot win without players. Let’s note that Pat Riley, who has five NBA titles, went 15-67 with the Miami Heat in 2007-2008 when Dwyane Wade got hurt and Shaquille O’Neal got traded.
Which brings us to Joe Johnson. He has averaged 12.3 points against Orlando, missing 71.4 percent of his shots. Off this performance, you wouldn’t re-sign him at 18 cents per season, let alone $18 million. But Johnson just was named third team all-NBA, which by definition makes him one of the league’s 15 best players. If he leaves, which of the other 14 takes his place? And if none does (and none would), haven’t you weakened your team to the extent it might not be in the playoffs next spring?
The Hawks have ceased meshing. Both Johnson and Al Horford admitted as much after practice Sunday. Said Horford: “The chemistry is OK at times … At times it’s not so good. At times we mesh, but sometimes when things don’t go our way we crawl in our own little hole.”
About chemistry: The Bucks had it, and they rode it to a 3-2 series lead over these Hawks. Then Milwaukee lost Games 6 and 7 by an aggregate 35 points for the simple reason its mesh couldn’t override a lack of talent. This is the NBA. It’s a players’ league. You can have the happiest locker room in the world, but if there aren’t enough big-timers in it you won’t win anything.
Loading ...This doesn’t excuse the performances the Hawks have offered this postseason. Said Horford: “The last thing we should worry about is effort. That should be a given.”
Said Woodson: “I’m not here to coach effort.”
And there’s your disconnect. Too many guys in this locker room have tuned out this coach, who for many of them is the only pro coach they’ve known. It’s not clear if Red Auerbach reincarnate could guide these Hawks past Orlando, but when you’ve lost three games by an average of 29 points it is clear someone’s message isn’t taking hold.
Woodson again: “At the end of the day, this team is still headed in the right direction. I sure hope they don’t go back the other way and bust it up.”
To break apart this roster now would be tantamount to surrender, and we know too well what that’s like. But to expect these players to respond more positively to this coach in his seventh season on the job is likewise folly. We Atlantans saw the same thing happen more than two decades ago when a good young team grew up around Mike Fratello but eventually stopped listening.
Now as then, it comes down to one question: Is it easier to change the team or change the coach? And the answer, now as then, is that the Hawks can conceivably find an upgrade on Mike Woodson. They might not find another Joe Johnson. This summer isn’t the time to subtract talent. It’s the time to do as the elite teams do and add, add, add.
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229 comments Add your comment
Chuckles™
May 9th, 2010
4:43 pm
I am not a Hawks fan. I grew up as a Celtics fan. I have seen a winning franchise die & get rebuilt.
Joe Johnson is an OK regular season piece. But he’s no max contract player. He’s mentioned that he is looking for another team to jump to. Let him.
This franchise is doomed until the leadership legal issues get settled. Then, they need to build like the Magic did. They recovered nicely from years of ineptitude and have one of the top 5 teams in the NBA.
We have a good GM. A different coach is necessary (one that has more of an offensive plan then halfcourt setup iso – one pass drive and hope for rebounds). Pro assistant from non-elite team would be ok (one who is used to having an offense by committee not superstar). Get the payroll manageable. Then look for ONE freeagent signee (preferable point guard).
NCBravesFan
May 9th, 2010
4:45 pm
Two things: 1) with the epic meltdown this team has had in this series, replacing the coach may not be enough to placate the fan base. There will be a lot of questions raised about the Hawks if they are substantially the same team next year. 2) You make the point that this team could be a lot worse off without Joe and that may very well be true. But given his age and salary demands, can the Hawks realistically expect to be a contender with him in the fold going forward?
Mr. Turnip-Green Jeans
May 9th, 2010
4:51 pm
I believe JJ is the bad chemistry on this team. Joe is the one who “crawls into a little hole,” and I wouldn’t doubt that’s who/what Harford was referring to.
Woody AND JJ must go!
J-MAN
May 9th, 2010
4:52 pm
Actually we can’t FIRE WOODY unless we resign him……… I thought I should point that out so…….. DON’T GIVE WOODY AN EXTENSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just sayin'
May 9th, 2010
4:52 pm
Al Hartford is as important to this team as Mark Texas was to the Braves.
wordy
May 9th, 2010
4:54 pm
I think Joe is frustrated with the fan base calling him out in the past couple weeks due to his performance in the playoffs. I don’t think he had any intention in staying in Atl from week one this year.
As for Bosh I don’t think we can pay him and I doubt he wants to come here.
Best we can do is keep everyone except Joe and Woodson and possibly pick up a decent piece to help out. I don’t see us losing Joe and going back to only winning 15 games a year.
I would like to see J Smoove, Holford, Crawford stay Hawks for awhile. Hopefully Teague can become a proper starter as Bibby winds his career down. That could be a very good 4 core we could keep for at least the next 4-5. Add a 5th starter in free agency and build the bench through the draft.
ryan
May 9th, 2010
4:54 pm
Why not go after Jeff Van Gundy and then have some kind of package trade with Joe Johnson,ZaZa and Bibby for Dirk and bring back Jason Terry.
R.U.KIDDEN-ME???
May 9th, 2010
4:56 pm
EXCUSE ME??!! MARK DID YOU BUMP YOUR HEAD OR SOMETHNIG??!! DID YOU NOT HEAR HI S RESPONSE LAST EVENING AFTER THAT LAYDOWN LAST NIGHT??!! THAT IS AS UNPROFESSIONAL AS IT GET’S CHIEF!! THIS CLOWN WANT’S TOP DOLLAR BUT PLAYED & SPOKE LIKE A TRUE BLUE 1ST RATE C-H-U-M-P!!! IF YOU’RE GOING TO GIVE TOP DOLLAR TO A PLAYER(SOME WILL BE AVAILABLE THIS SUMMER)GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO WANT’S TO BE HERE & IS HUNGRY!!! OH,& LESS BEFORE I FORGET……..FINALLY,FIRE WOODROW NOW!!!
R.U.KIDDEN-ME???
May 9th, 2010
4:59 pm
REALLY??!!
Matt
May 9th, 2010
4:59 pm
Mark-JJ is overrated and soon to be overpaid. Get rid of him NOW. Also, he clearly has burned his bridge with the fans of Atlanta.
FIRE WOODY!!
Marko
May 9th, 2010
5:01 pm
They don’t need to re-sign JJ. Bringing him back would be like paying $25.00 for a gallon of hose water because that was the best option available today. If they need to do without a legitimate replacement for a year, then so be it. No sense overpaying for several years just for the sake of a few more wins.
Doc Rivers will be the head coach for the Hawks next year.
dub366
May 9th, 2010
5:13 pm
Keep the teams together except M. Williams he don’t show nor come to play . fire Woody monday night right after the game,bring someone in here with an offense instead of this ISO. you can keep Bibby ,but don’t start him Teauge need to be playing need some more scorer. go get Ray Allen for marvin
governor404
May 9th, 2010
5:14 pm
Hopefully the ASG is competent enough not to listen too much to emotional rhetoric from fan(atics) who would have the whole team shipped out if they could, the majority of these couldn’t run their local YMCA team much less a multi-million dollar corp. The last time an owner gave in to public opinion polls these same out of the closet Magic fans voted whole-heartedly to run Shaq out of town, it has taken the Magic organization 20yrs and some lucky ping-pong balls to land Dwight Howard and to date they still haven’t won a championship, Joe is not Shaq but he’s the closest we’ve got to a Shaq and if he walks he will get himself a ring. Don’t panic ASG and please don’t listen to that “we play the players salary nonsense” everybody know that it is the TV deals and global marketing that pays the salaries. Meet Joe in the middle of the max deal and your initial offer get him a coach and we’ll be off and running again.
banshee
May 9th, 2010
5:15 pm
It is Byron Scott, not Bryon….
Jimmy
May 9th, 2010
5:20 pm
We need a new coach, definitely.
And if JJ thinks he is worth a max contract, then he needs to go too.
It’d be great to get a Dwayne Wade to go with JJ.
JJ is not going to be the best player on the team unless the team is not very good.
Pete Rose
May 9th, 2010
5:21 pm
I bet we can get rid of Johnson. We can lose with anybody.
governor404
May 9th, 2010
5:23 pm
Please ASG im watching Josh Childress (wife’s visiting mom for Mother’s Day) play in the championship game vs Ricky Rubio’s team and he can’t finish over there or lead his team to a championship, and I am reminded of how fragile (both his feet were hurt, his ankle) he is, hell, he had a hernia problem over there. Again, let’s not give in to fan sentiment and recruit this guy again, he’s a nice player but would he have made a difference vs Dwight Howard? hardly not, can u say Darren Collison and Haywood for Bibby, Josh and Mo Evans
Football Fan
May 9th, 2010
5:30 pm
I was at the game on the 11th row from the court last night. I was sitting two rows AHEAD of Roy Williams and say Shannon Sharpe walk by. In other words, I went all out last night for the Hawks game. The sad thing is I had NO FUN AT ALL because the team was PATHETIC!!! The game was over after 4 minutes and there was nothing left to do than turn around and ask Roy Williams if he could coach any better. I overheard commenting that we need to be playing Teague more. Try SOMETHING different!
northcyde
May 9th, 2010
5:30 pm
No one is talking about signing JJ to a max contract. But would people bring him back at 5yrs – 75 or 80 million? Or how about 6yrs – 90 or 95 million? That’s not a max contract, but it’s definitely a big money contract.
See . . . the issue is now . . do the fans even want JJ back . . at any price?
Some of them are so pizzed off now, that they’d rather for him to not even come back, even if that meant someone of lesser talent assumed his spot. In the end, that still is a negative in the long run, because we’ll be a worse team.
Mark H
May 9th, 2010
5:32 pm
Hawks need center, point guard, no-nonsense coach, heart and direction. Woodson out. Trade Josh (I have yet to run in an NBA game) for a young center (either of the Lopez brothers or Hibbert) or point guard (Chalmers, Beaubois, Berea, Ridenour) filling one of the voids. Move Horford to power forward. Bring in Avery Johnson, Byron Scott or Mike Fratello to coach. Really do think that some of the players carefree attitude will go away quickly with a coach willing to get in their faces. Luke Ridenour, Dorell Wright, DeJuan Blair just a few names that would help and could be attained. Woodson & Smith are the two that “have to go” while Smith has any trade value left. Would like Johnson to stay. He won’t! Wade or Bosh coming to ATL is a joke. Why would they even think about it?
James
May 9th, 2010
5:40 pm
Joe Johnson is a good player but not a great one.I honestly dont think he is in the top 15 in NBA I dont care if he was voted third team all NBA.The bottom line with me is that the Hawks should have moved him when he turned down the extention and certainly before the deadline this year.I would take Jamal Crawford any day of the week over Joe because I just dont see that much of a drop off.Joe may have lost millions during the play offs with the way he has performed and I hoped the Hawks dont get into bidding war for him.In fact the should just let him walk.
tom
May 9th, 2010
5:49 pm
your wrong again!
fred
May 9th, 2010
5:50 pm
Joe must go! The man lacks leadership and a heart! Time to blow it up and build the right way
Steve
May 9th, 2010
5:57 pm
No Point Guard to take on Jameer
Nobody to stop Dwight
And ASG for not ponying up money for better big men off the bench than Jason Collins, Joe Smith, and Randoph Morris – end of story
Steve
May 9th, 2010
5:58 pm
And what is up with JJ – horrible both series really – is he ready for a change?
bill
May 9th, 2010
6:10 pm
We’ve seen this movie before…and no FA is signing with Hawks as long as the Spirit owns the team. ATL fans are trapped in a Groundhog Day!
Brownie
May 9th, 2010
6:19 pm
This is laughable…a 53 win season, and everyone is so high on the Hawks. And now they show absolutely no heart in the second round, and everyone is bringing out the dynamite.
This team is loaded with problems: an undersized center is by far your best player – gotta find a way to move him to PF. The team wasted a #2 pick on a SF who wouldn’t start on ANY roster in the NBA. Your PF is an absolutely uncoachable headcase who should be playing SF but possesses almost none of the skills required to succeed there. Your PG couldn’t guard cement, and is perhaps the worst passing PG I’ve ever seen. Your “max player” SG is a morose, slow, choking malcontent who has openly stated he would rather play elsewhere. And finally, your head coach has absolutely no offensive creativity whatsoever, and the players have tuned him out.
Uh, sorry, there is one other “finally” comment to make….your ownership is a nearly bankrupt dysfunctional group who might just keep everything intact just to save money.
There actually have been some very good suggestions on this blog. 1. Woody is gone. 2. JJ is gone – he’s not worth the money he’ll demand (after his performance and attitude in the playoffs I’m not sure how many max $ offers he’ll get elsewhere). 3. New coach has to figure out fast if Teague is an NBA caliber PG – a strong leader-type with penetrating and passing skills is just what the team needs. 4. Trade Josh Smith (unless the new coach thinks he can get into his head).
Wink
May 9th, 2010
6:19 pm
This is not matter for the Spirit to consider dumping Joe Johnson. They should be the first to the table to offer him the exact same offer or less. Then he has to determine if he wants to be a Hawk. If Joe turns them down again he does not want to be here.
Also, the comments stated by Joe indicates to me he does not want to be here, when he does not care if fans show up or not. He has exactly one game left on his contract; is’nt ironic how he can get motivated to turn on the fans, but can’t show any emotion to get his teammates to play to potential. Check out his body language Monday night, it will let us know. (Vick flipping a fan off or Joe berating all fans, especially season ticket holders, it’ the same thing to me…management should take a stand!)
Should Joe elect to sign, we should execute a Sign & Trade deal. Yes he was selected 3rd Team All NBA, putting among the best 15 players this year, but is number 11, or 15th, either way it subjective. Now as for Sign & Trade, would Portland trade us Brandon Roy, make the inquiry and I would take Roy, a fellow 3rd teamer. Monte Ellis was not on any NBA team, I would trade him for Steph Curry, Salmons, Kevin Martin, Michael Redd when healthy, Ben Gordon because of mentality; if we can get value or bench help, specifically a pure shooter ie a JJ Reddick type.
Then so that it is not personal our would compare his in season stats vs playoff stats over last 3 years, then throw in stats vs marque team and below average teams, plus stats versus the shooting guards from the All NBA teams. Then I think we would have a good idea how far we can go with Joe Johnson. If management offers him a Max Contract, and bring back Woody; I fear we will not get much more than what we have gotten for this team. Bibby, Horford, Josh, Marvin, Zaza, Crawford are all due in traing camp next season, sign sealed delivered. bring back Joe and we have no cap space to improve roster!!!!
Mike Hunt
May 9th, 2010
6:19 pm
Time for JJ to move on. He helped bring the team up from the bottom as did Woodson. But, they’ve gone as far as they can with the current mix. Unfortunately, JJ doesn’t excel when it’s money-time. In the big games against the best teams, he doesn’t show up.
Spudd Webb
May 9th, 2010
6:27 pm
Let Joe go. Good player, but not good enough to pay what he’ll want in his next contract. Let Woodsen go too. I don’t think he knows how to effectively use the talent he had this year.
I think J-Smoove-Horford-Crawford-Teague is a good core to build a team from. We’re not getting D.Wade or LBJ, but maybe Bosh is a realistic acquisition. I think trading for some younger, up-and-coming talent that won’t warrant major $$ is a good way to go.
Yeah, we take a step back, maybe for a season, by getting rid of JJ and Woody, but get some up-and-comers to supplement that main core and this could be a really good team within another year.
Floze
May 9th, 2010
6:33 pm
This is a timely article because at the end of the day – joe johnson is our best chance of getting better. Joe needs a point to get him the ball off of picks or when he has posted up a smaller 2. Bibby can do that but he only plays 12 minutes a game because he can’t defend the other guys one. Jamal is an off guard with no insticts to pass / just like Joe. Playing Joe and Jamal in the backcourt just isn’t a good idea for long stretches.
We need a legit 1 – perhaps Baron Davis. I think we can get him for Josh and Bibby. Show Joe that we mean business by bringing in Baron Davis. Marvin always plays better when Josh is out anyway.
That way we can then find a big like Perkins that let’s Al play the four. Perkins for Childress in a sing and trade should do it.
Davis / Joe / Marvin / Al / Perkins. Let’s try that
Morrus
May 9th, 2010
6:36 pm
Curiously, in a supposed anti-incumbent year, most of the departing are not retiring but seeking higher office. We may recycle more than we replace. The bad news is that a frustrating 114 seats still have but one contestant. Two of them aren’t even incumbents, meaning they will affect state policy without being vetted by voters. And I have to think that we’d be better off if many had run instead for the Legislature — and cut down on the number running unopposed. Georgia’s problems are numerous. They aren’t going away. There’s too much stale thinking at the Capitol, on both sides of the aisle. New voices would be welcome.
governor404
May 9th, 2010
6:38 pm
It’s more than just let JJ walk, part of the reason the ASG is in financial trouble and watching their pennies is because what it took to get JJ, bodies in the form of high draft picks and a huge salary and just let him walk with nuthin but salary cap space to show for it you fair-weather fans can’t be serious. You already have stated that no free-agent would want to come here, so why lose your best player and only attraction to other free-agents just to have salary cap money in your pockets, it would only lead to being left at the altar for the top tier free agents and possibly over-paying for some aging (Paul Pierce) or suspect free agent (Carlos Boozer) who would take the money and lay down. We must keep JJ and add from there or we are doomed to the lottery. Maybe Portland will be too frustrated with Oden (they re-signed Camby and have Pryzbilla) and attempted to trade him for Marvin and Bibby and whatever else.
Rich
May 9th, 2010
6:44 pm
Joe Johnson should be Thankful we(Hawks fans) didn’t begin booing him during Pre-Game Warmups yesterday for the 5th All-NBA Team performance he has been giving us this post-season at best… J.J. maybe telling the truth about he doesn’t care what the hawks fans think, so I say the Hawks Organization starts to look for another B-Level or C-Level Superstar…
If Joe doesn’t want to be here, the Hawks shouldn’t have to beg…
RISE UP ATLANTA, let’s send Joe Johnson off with more boo’s than he can handle if we get a repeat of his game 3 performance…
Below Job
May 9th, 2010
6:44 pm
Let Joe go. He has no class and no game when the big boys come to town. He’s not one of the league’s 15 best players when it’s on the line.
thomas22
May 9th, 2010
6:51 pm
@Brownie
Your post is the best one yet!
Woodson has done a great job, but the team is maxed out with him (not all his fault either)
JJ is not happy here and should move on (there are plenty alternatives who can lead the team)
Al Horford is definitely the hardest worker and team MVP (but should be a PF)
Once Jamal tightens his defense more he’ll have an all around game.
Bibby’s better days are behind him and should consider mentoring Teague.
Josh needs a coach who will sit his a** down and hold him accountable for his actions that hurt the team (especially for complaining after every call and not getting back on D- (he’s only 24 right?)
Marvin has become a liability and should either be traded or have a role to come off the bench (after he hits the weight room).
Last but not least- We need a Center like yesterday……….
Rosalyn
May 9th, 2010
6:51 pm
I disagree Mark Bradley………Joe Johnson needs to be out of here like yesterday.He has no respect for the fans or The City of Atlanta,so he needs to get back to Arkansas or wherever,just get his ass out of The City of Atlanta……..
Atlanta deserves better,we deserve to support people that want and appreciate out support.Atlanta deserves to support people that TRY to win.I just feel that Joe Johnson needs to go wherever he wants to go and I also feel we need a new coach because Woodson runs the same plays and he has hit a plateau……
The Truth
May 9th, 2010
6:52 pm
Mark
Do you really believe “Choke” Johnson would play for a new “take no prisoners” type of coach after being pampered here in Atlanta for so long? He has already suggested that he wants Woody as his coach. So this whole notion of keeping him and the core together with a new coach will not work. If Woody leaves, “Choke” Johnson walks. It is that simple. I say savage him (if you can) and move on. But please don’t hold us hostage with fool’s gold for another 4-5 years. Hawk fans would appreciate more if ownership is exactly trying to fix the teams problems instead of playing politics with our money. If it means a playoff setback for while (to get better), then so be it. It is better to fight like warriors and lose with honor and respect, then to lie down (like cowards) in defeat as the Hawks have done. There is no glory in that.
Matt the Brave
May 9th, 2010
6:55 pm
What I find most disturbing is that Mike Woodson continues to snipe with Josh Smith. While Smith is also immature for doing it, he’s still a KID. I think that it’s time to hire someone new.
governor404
May 9th, 2010
6:57 pm
Wade’s supporting cast in Miami is better than the Hawks’ Chalmers over Bibby, Qrichardson over Marvin, Beasley is a better all-around player than Josh, so if he can’t even get them out of the first round for 3 yrs how is he going to make less talent better? A true championship team needs a minimum of 2 All-NBA talents on its roster to compete for a championship, the Hawks have a bad spade hand, 1 and a possible. end of story
Dahlia
May 9th, 2010
7:02 pm
No, Mark, even the legendary Red Auerbach couldn’t coach this bunch of overpaid lazy goons to a championship.
Run every one of them out of town. Way out of town, say Yugoslavia.
Purist
May 9th, 2010
7:06 pm
Joe and Josh are punks. Marvin is useless. Bibby is too old and slow.
No one listens to Woodson anymore. Please, please blow this thing up.
Kiljoy
May 9th, 2010
7:08 pm
Dumping Joe Johnson isn’t the same thing as starting over. I vote to dump Woodson, trade Joe and build through the draft. This is still a young team and we can (no way to avoid it) wait another two years for a championship.
Jimmy
May 9th, 2010
7:27 pm
We need to be careful about how much we pay JJ.
He just has not lived up to expectations for consistency.
Still, with a new coach, maybe this team will perform better.
Pie in the sky, I know, but maybe a new coach will get more consisten play out of this team.
Maybe then, we can get a cheaper players to round out the team.
Next step
May 9th, 2010
7:28 pm
If we don’t resign Joe Johnson, how much money do we have available to go after other free agents? Does anyone know?
Wreckmaniac
May 9th, 2010
7:34 pm
Someone else mentioned this earlier. Phillips needs to be the home of
wrestling and tractor pulls both of which are more popular than NBA and
the NHL in Atlanta. Despite being taken over by northern state refugees college sports will always rule this town. The Braves and Falcons have always shown that when they go mediocre their market dies. The assumption that prof sports should be attached to major population centers is wrong. LA is doing fine without an NFL team.
Wreckmaniac
May 9th, 2010
7:35 pm
Please hire Paul Hewitt to coach the Hawks
EJ
May 9th, 2010
7:38 pm
Need to say Bye to Joe and bring in Chris Bosh…then pick up John Salmons to take over the 2 spot and keep Crawford coming off the bench. Bosh and Salmons> Joe, it would help the Hawks take that next step. Hopefully Teague is ready to take over for Bibby too.
Wreckmaniac
May 9th, 2010
7:40 pm
Any advertiser who put money into the Hawks-Orlando series should get at least half of it back. Game four could be played in a high school gym and should really be cancelled. What if someone on the Orlando team is injured ? It would be a travesty. The two worst winning teams in the NBA are Atlanta and Dallas.
Navigator
May 9th, 2010
7:51 pm
We don’t need another Chipper Jones contract, besides this owner group can’t afford it anyway. Joe Johnson is one of those players that performs well most of the time, but when the chips are down in the playoffs and you need your top players to play smart, he doesn’t. Many times he has a chance to pass out of a double/triple team, but throws up an awkward shot anyway. You may have to drop back a bit to solidify this team with other pieces they need no matter.