So how come the current Braves can’t hit but ex-Braves can?
I’ve never been one who believed Terry Pendleton was the problem. As the saying goes, he can’t step in and hit for his guys. (It might be better if he could.) But then you look at these batting averages, and even a Pendleton admirer must cringe.
- Chipper Jones, .271.
- Brian McCann, .271.
- Jason Heyward, .246.
- Yunel Escobar, .188.
- Troy Glaus, .186.
- Matt Diaz, .175.
- Melky Cabrera, 153.
- Nate McLouth, .146.
Take away Martin Prado — who is, it must be stipulated, second in the National League in hitting at .406 — and the totality of the Braves’ regular lineup isn’t hitting Prince Fielder’s weight. Which is incredible.
The Braves rank last in the league in hitting at .228. (And remember, that’s with Prado doing a Ted Williams.) They were no-hit by Ubaldo Jimenez. They were shut out by Roy Halladay. They were one out from being blanked on a night Kyle Kendrick started for the Phillies. They were shut out over five innings by Mike Pelfrey on Sunday.
They didn’t score an earned run in three games against a Philadelphia starting pitcher. They scored three runs in 23 innings against the Mets. They’re in last place in the NL East, behind even the Washington Nationals. Yow.
And now we check another set of numbers, these belonging to players who were Braves in 2009 but who aren’t today:
- Jeff Francoeur, Mets: .286 average, three homers, 10 RBIs.
- Kelly Johnson, Diamonbacks:.322, seven homers, 12 RBIs.
- Casey Kotchman, Mariners: .279 average, three homers, 14 RBIs.
- Adam LaRoche, Diamonbacks: .278, one homer, seven RBIs.
Again, I’m not one who usually blames the hitting coach when big-leaguers don’t hit. But it does seem the guys who aren’t Braves are hitting in a way the Braves aren’t. You tell me: What does that say?
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688 comments Add your comment
Paddy O
April 26th, 2010
12:14 pm
Braves fans: Remember, you are still real close to 500. If the team hitting improves, you can do well. PLus, be glad that Cox will be gone next year. Also, I would ask Liberty why they can’t use the Braves like Turner did – mucho dinero off of broadcasting their games nation wide. Unless LIberty is too poor to own a MLB team.
Chief Pitchanono
April 26th, 2010
12:14 pm
I don’t really believe it will make that big of a diference, without having been there it is hard to say how important a hitting coach is at the major league level as far as the whole team is concerned. I’m sure it can make a big diference in a few individual players, but I would not expect a complete team turn around just because TP was replaced. That being said I also do believe in fairness and if our pitching staff had an ERA of 8 you know Roger would be fired on the spot. So I do believe the braves need to at least consider making a change, not just because of whats happening right now, but also because of the past couple of years. Its very hard to watch several players significantly improve their offense shortly after they leave atlanta after the really struggled here. Gotta let TP go at this point and get somebody new in there. Maybe swap him out with a minor league coach for a while and see what happens. Really cant get any worse.
Tami
April 26th, 2010
12:14 pm
I’ve noticed this for a long time. While some may not want to blame TP…I don’t know. It’s a glaring coincidence. My guess is when Bobby finishes this, his last season, management will clean house. Some or all coaches will be gone. I’d like something to be done with regards hitting while we’re still in the first month of the season…but that’s just me.
Alphare
April 26th, 2010
12:17 pm
Let me make another case TP is not to blame:
1. If TP is to blame, why is Prado hitting like crazy then? same hitting coach and not using his dad.
2. If TP is to blame, why Chipper and McCann is not hitting then? since they use their dads as the hitting coach
3. If TP is to blame, why Melky and Glaus are not hitting then? since they are the least influenced by TP.
Well, as I said earlier, since you team don’t have old-Chipper/Andruw/McGriff, you team will be bad because you don’t have good players. When you were good, you had the old-Chipper/Andruw/McGriff. TP is in the wrong-time just like Leo was in the right-time.
myra
April 26th, 2010
12:17 pm
bravesfan we love the kid too. Gotta raw deal. Hope hell be back someday soon.
P.S. to all Braves fans: AAA Gwinnett Braves on MLB network TV right now.
They score runs too.
steveh
April 26th, 2010
12:17 pm
I am one who places a lot (not all) of our hitting woes on Terry Pendleton. However, I also think he would make an excellent choice to replace Bobby Cox. I do not understand the logic that says that a guy who is not cut out to be a hitting coach cannot possibly be a good manager. That is comparing apples and oranges. Completely different skill sets are required. It is like saying that a person who cannot do open heart surgery is not qualified to be hospital administrator. They are completely different roles.
TP knows the game well. He has been well thought of in the league for his baseball mind. When Larussa was considering retiring last year (or year before) it was widely assumed that TP was going to be offered the job. He was a finalist to be manager in Philly and Baltimore. You don’t get every job you apply for. His day is coming and I don’t think it would be a bad thing for it to happen in Atlanta.
Atticus
April 26th, 2010
12:18 pm
I don’t blame Pendleton for Glaus, he hasn’t played in two years and swings for the fences. Yunel has a ton of talent but is a head case at times and is just off to a slow start. McCann will get hot and McClouth won’t bat .200 and neither will Diaz. Melky isn’t a starter.
We still have the same issues as before the season and to me that falls on WREN! OF and 1B he tried to do on the cheap, even though we traded away salary in Vasquez and that is on him. They should’ve let Chipper go or traded him and gone after Matt Holliday. Too late. This team can’t compete for big free agents anymore. We have a great nucleus with JJ, Hanson, Mac, Prado, Yunel, Heyward and Venters but still too many holes to compete seriously for a title.
Joey
April 26th, 2010
12:18 pm
Re: The Hawks
Mark, while we are on coaching …. Do you think it falls on Woody that the Hawks play so poorly on the road? I mean, if we are talented enough to beat virtually every team currently in the playoffs at our place this season, shouldn’t we be good enough to win on the road?
Casey
April 26th, 2010
12:20 pm
@Jack
WEARED!?! What language is that? Do you even know what the word intimation means? If you don’t know what a word means, pick another one. Stop trying to pretend you are educated.
Yurtle_the_turtle
April 26th, 2010
12:21 pm
Perhaps Frank Wren isn’t as smart as he tells us. Given an $80 M payroll you think you’d be able to find a 1st baseman who could hit for average and HRs and a SS who isn’t a liability on the basepaths.
Mrs. Chanandler Bong
April 26th, 2010
12:21 pm
I don’t blame TP. I blame Troy Glaus. I blame him for everything. Why? Because Greg Norton is gone.
cdog
April 26th, 2010
12:22 pm
mark, you’re batting 1000. you went from mike woodson to terry pendelton.hitting is not the total.the braves can’t field or think.these are the contributing factors to them losing.they have mediocre players trying to win with
The Truth
April 26th, 2010
12:23 pm
TP has had some decent production in the past. The real problem is the three or four years of extremely limited production out of the outfield. The fact that the Braves have had one or less outfielders that can contribute is unacceptable. Melky & McClouth… busts… not TOs fault because neither were that great before getting here; both only had potential and no proven history. And our corner infielders are just as bad now (sorry Chipper). Last year I said that we are at least two to three good hitters away from being good. Now we’re at least one to two hitter away (excluding Chippper). Over that last few years we have only received consistent production from catcher and one middle infield position… isn’t that the truth?
Sam
April 26th, 2010
12:23 pm
I think I speak for quite a few people and Bobby Cox might be included there. T.P., loved you as a player. Your a class guy, but when it comes to being a hitting coach… I just don’t think you’re cut out for it kid. Facts are players hit in the Braves minor league system, don’t hit for the Atlanta Braves. Those players tear the cover off the ball when they leave. Yes I did just say they are tearing the cover off the ball and some of you smart a… yeah might want to argue their stats are average. Theirs may be average, ours are below average. With what I’m used to seeing in Atlanta right now, I’d like to see some middle relievers take batting practice. Bet they could put the bat on the ball, T.P. doesn’t really mess with the pitchers. It’s not just our homegrown talent. When we do sign free agents or make trades to bring in proven hitters, all of the sudden those same hitters forget the strike zone or how to swing the bat at all. I think Two things need to change on this team…1. T.P. needs to accept another position with the team. He can help Hubby with the infielders. 2. I really hate to finally rip a guy that I have always supported, but Escobar…oh Escobar. I am finally resigned to the fact that he can be a great player, but I feel he is more of a cancer to the team. The at bat before his brain freeze on third…Escobar on first. Prado hitting. Escobar runs with the pitch. Prado hits the ball hard to the fence. I see Prado digging for second. I see Escobar jogging to third. As Prado is taking hitting batting gloves off, he is barking over at Escobar, looking all kinds of hateful at him. It took a while for Prado to grow on me, and I have always thought Escobar could be our SS for a long time…I don’t see Escobar sticking around long with his style of play, which has gotten lazy. The sooner he goes, the sooner we start focusing on winning and not on our lazy SS. On a positive note, it’s good to see Chipper “manning up” so to say. He’s a great player, but he’s got to realize the older you get, the more pains you’re gonna have. I got stuff popping that shouldn’t pop to, but I still go to work the next day, so good job Chipper. Plus I’d rather see your half swings than the next T.P. prodigy.
Chipper
April 26th, 2010
12:24 pm
It’s hard being a major leaguer, you guys don’t understand….
ijudgenot
April 26th, 2010
12:25 pm
The problem with the Braves is that they have utility guys starting in two of the three outfield positions and two washed up players playing the corner infield spots. Other than that they are just fine. They have no team speed from top to bottom of lineup. It was frustrating to see Mets score on an excuse me single by Reyes who promptly steals second and comes home from 2nd when Jones tries to throw out a runner after it took him 5 seconds to get up and throw wildly to first. It was painfull to see that. Most aging players are the last to realize that their talent has slipped. In Chippers mind he was moving as fast as he always has, but to us watching it looked like he was moving in slow motion.The Braves outhit the Mets but were station to station with every hit. No one took extra base. I hope Escobar does not force the Braves to trade him to get away from Cox. The nucleus of McCann, Escobar, Heyward, Prado, Freeman and Young Pitching staff ccould make Braves exciting next year with new YOUNG MANAGER, not deciples of Bobby Cox. Just need to find that young speedy 2nd baseman to replace Prado when he moves to 3rd base repacing the washed up Chipper Jones.
Ralph
April 26th, 2010
12:25 pm
Mark you say the hitting coach is not to blame, isn’t that his job, if the hitting coach can’t make any difference then why have a hitting coach?
Casey
April 26th, 2010
12:25 pm
@TommyJack
“road doggies”?!?!? What in the hell?
NO MORE BOBBY
April 26th, 2010
12:30 pm
WHAT HAPPENED TO GLAUS AFTER SPRING TRAINING?
Troy Glaus had put together a doubles flurry to boost some gaudy spring stats for the Braves’ new first baseman. – March 31
Troy Glaus’ batting average this spring is outstanding, although no one expected the former American League home-run leader to have a higher on-base percentage than slugging percentage. – March 30th
Fire TP
April 26th, 2010
12:31 pm
Fire Terry Pendleton
Alphare
April 26th, 2010
12:32 pm
Ralph,
if hitting coach is so important, why do you the players in the millions, but the coach in the thousands then?
skip
April 26th, 2010
12:32 pm
You left out Andruw Jones
Andruw Jones, White Sox: .292 average, six homers, 9 RBIs
NO MORE BOBBY
April 26th, 2010
12:32 pm
Oh and if you google FIRE TERRY PENDLETON this article comes up many times from last season as well. Only in Atlanta would they continue to put up with this just because TP is down with Bobby. Now we have two guys costing the team from moving forward. Thanks Wren!
Johnny Kakes
April 26th, 2010
12:33 pm
Speaking about the heart of the problem – payroll – it’s hard for me to get my hands around the fact that we are now in the category of teams that win ONLY when their farm system talent arrives. I can’t believe we can no longer afford to get a quality free agent every now and then to help this team truly compete. I am tired of getting has-beens on the cheap – - in hopes that they’ll somehow find the magic again and produce. A once proud franchise, the Braves are now in the category of Florida and other small market teams. What a shame!
kt
April 26th, 2010
12:33 pm
TP needs to go. He dang sure doesn’t need to be the next Manager.
Terry the career killer Pendelton
April 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
Well its not my fault I just wanted to be apart of the coaching staff Booby gave me this assignment.
Joey
April 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
MB: Atticus, I’ve asked Cox about Pendleton. Cox loves the guy and says he’s the hardest-working coach he has ever had.
Mark, that sounds like what Loran Smith said about Willie Martinez after the ‘08 season when Dawg fans were riled about the 30 and 40 points per game allowed by his defense. Neither of Cox’s praises help the Braves hitting woes!
Who cares if Cox loves TP? And TP could work 24/7, but if he’s not good at his job, what’s the point?
carlchamblee
April 26th, 2010
12:34 pm
“Bobby believes coaching is shuffling the lineup daily, chirping encouragement from the dugout and waiting for the “breaks” to score. ” – Paul in Richmond
Might be the best summary of Bobby Cox I’ve ever seen. There is NO team that wins consistently with a different lineup every game. He gave Heyward one lousy game in the 5 spot and Infante one shot at leadoff. Yet Glaus stays at 5 no matter what because he fouled off a pitch hard in 1997. His lineups make no sense on a regular basis. Like you said he just waits for the 3 run HR that is coming less and less because the team lacks power.
Angus
April 26th, 2010
12:35 pm
Right on, ijudgenot.
Atticus, come on, that’s not fair – you can’t just single out the worst. Averaging the ranks, the Braves have been better than 4th in the NL since ‘03 under TP in BA and runs scored. TP may be a bad hitting coach, but the numbers just don’t support it.
Herschel Talker
April 26th, 2010
12:36 pm
About frigging time. But you continue not to blame Bobby. The buck stops with that moron.
Cox is a clown.
Wren is a clown.
TP is a clown.
This franchise is run by a bunch of fools. It’s time to clean house.
Skeezix
April 26th, 2010
12:36 pm
In general, for several years, it seems as though they leave the Braves and hit better, yet come to the Braves and hit worse. Mostly- I think this entire team is in dire need of one of those sports shrink. I like TP but with this team so deep in a slump, a change might be a good first step. Another issue however is our shortstop (not an insignificant position) who appears to have a serious attitude problem and/or is easily distracted.
Murph
April 26th, 2010
12:36 pm
Braves are last in hitting. Terry Pendleton, while maybe not the cause of their horrible hitting, certainly isn’t showing himself to be the solution.
Cut him loose and bring in some fresh ideas. At this point, what can it hurt?
Braves Fan
April 26th, 2010
12:37 pm
Ok. Before you go blaming TP, how bout we check these same stats at the all star break. KJ has always been a streaky hitter he is more off than on. Frenchy will come back down to earth, but he was a decent hitter before he met TP just couldn’t handle the pressure.
Jeff Ryan
April 26th, 2010
12:37 pm
At some point perception becomes reality.
Terry Pendleton
April 26th, 2010
12:39 pm
Why fire me? It’s all Bobby’s fault.
Brave Hokie
April 26th, 2010
12:40 pm
@Johnny Kakes
IMHO we are the same as a small market team: b/c we have a thimble-minded GM who burns longterm money on bust free-agents {Chipper / Lowe} ~ subtract $28 mill from our cap and we are a middle to small market payroll…
Those same teams don’t have the cash for the GM to screw up {in the 1st place} & the 130 / 140 million teams have cash to make up for the mistakes…
DirtyDawg
April 26th, 2010
12:43 pm
The only thing we needed for Kelly Johnson to ‘get shed of’ was playing second base. His hitting, and sweet swing, was always gonna be there, but the kid can’t play the position worth a lick. Just wait, when he cools off at the plate Diamondback pitchers will start complaining about his lack of range and inability to handle anything hit hard to him. We obviously needed him in the OF – hell, with his speed and a big glove he could’a been our starting CFer.
Troy Glaus ain’t Garrett Anderson. Anderson could hit. He does run like Anderson – only slower, if that’s possible. No, Troy Glaus is this year’s Raul Mondesi – a bargain-priced reclamation project…seems to me Raul was cut loose sometime in May of that year.
Seems to me that the Braves hitters are thinking too much and have lost whatever instincts for ’seeing the ball/hitting the ball’. They seem to be caught up in ‘being patient’ and watching very hittable pitches go by only to find themselves in a hole, or at best 3-2, and feeling anxious and unable to recognize a pitch for what it is. I’m not saying start swinging like Francouer did – at any thrown ball – but these guys have grown up playing this damn game, surely they can call on something that allows them to get the fat part of the bat on the ball. I mean even when they go up there with the idea of, ‘OK, now I’m gonna cross the pitcher up and swing at the first good fastball…only they either don’t recognize the pitch or don’t get a good swing on it.
So Escobar’s gonna be Bobby’s whipping boy…what about Chipper? He’s got a lower fielding percentage than Yunel and has made, at least, as many mistakes that have cost us games. Plus, his current insistence on playing with that hip problem -probably in response to Bryan Jordan’s comments, is costing the team. Infante should be in there, even if they have Prado playing third, and leading off. One game for God’s sake. Bobby keeps shoving that lame first-baseman out there game after game and he’s killing us…enough of this ‘loyalty to a fault’, how about the rest of the team and the fans – how about being loyal to them/us?
myra
April 26th, 2010
12:43 pm
The wheels came off the bus when Scherholz stepped down and gave the club to Frankie. Now how do WE fix that?
39YearBravesFan
April 26th, 2010
12:44 pm
I just never thought of TP as a batting coach. Still don’t.
GO BRAVES!!
Chip
April 26th, 2010
12:44 pm
Kyle Lohse with an ERA of 7.31 is pitching for the Cards tonight against the Braves. Look for Kyle’s ERA to drop considerably after tonights game.
Roy Halladay pitching against the Braves is like a cheat code.
Someone
April 26th, 2010
12:44 pm
TP needs to go. Heck everyone knows that Chipper and BMac go to their dads for hitting advice! (Mac’s dad was once a coach at Georgia) and Heyward and the rest of the team should too!
I don’t think Bobby really wants to fire TP in his last year managing
I hope when Bobby retires, TP does NOT become manager! If so, hello braves of the 80s.
Joe Fan
April 26th, 2010
12:44 pm
The Braves are the good old boy network magnified. No matter how bad they perform no one is going to get their feelings hurt or loose their job. Whose fault is that? Start with the, President, then the GM, then the manager and right on down the line. No one rocks the boat and ultimately the craft takes on water from the constant storms and sinks.
the real Old Gold
April 26th, 2010
12:46 pm
How are the guys that we traded doing? Andruw, Frenchy, Salty, LaRoche, Derosa… That Tex trade still haunts us.. Almost all of those guys are starting in Texas.. and we’re left with nothing..
Boston Braves
April 26th, 2010
12:50 pm
Time to make the trade for Adrian G from the Friars. Jo-Jo, Gregor a AAer and a AAAer! For now it should be Hinske over Lip Gloss. Remember the Raul M. experiment? Let Glaus go!
Go get em Frank W!
Good Grief
April 26th, 2010
12:50 pm
Leave it to Mark Bradley to call for another man’s job AGAIN. afterall this clown of a writer has made his living off of it.
Phil
April 26th, 2010
12:50 pm
Herschel Talker,
Good one!
Einsteindawg
April 26th, 2010
12:52 pm
Both Cox and Pendleton are the problems. Cox continues to teach long-ball, with everyone going for that elusive “3 run homer” rather than manufacturing runs that win games. Terry was a great hitter, but that doesn’t qualify him as a great (or even adequate) hitting coach, anymore than being a great salesperson qualifies you as a great sales manager. Just my opinion.
Born2Buzz
April 26th, 2010
12:53 pm
Enjoy Bobby’s last season. And probably every assistant coach. Any other team in the league would be looking to fire the manager about now. The trend is now 4 years old.
Actually, MB, you wrote and article back in the winter about the Braves putting together a team on the cheap. Well, you were right. Someone earlier wrote that the Braves have two utility guys playing 2 outfield spots and two aged has-beens playing the corner infield spots. That is the truth.
And to think that in the last year Wren has traded Francouer for nothing and Vasquez for Melky Cabrera. Ugh.
Frustrated Braves Fan
April 26th, 2010
12:53 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you MB!!! I’ve been thinking this for a while now, and was wondering why no one in the media was talking about it. If this was New York or Philly, the fans and media would have been calling for TP’s head a long time ago. I like TP, and loved him as a player, but the Braves bats have been bad for too long. For every down and out pitcher the Braves organization has resurrected in the past 10 years, they have killed at least that many good hitters.
Phil
April 26th, 2010
12:54 pm
“Wait till next year” is what I’ve been dreaming about for the last 10 years. We finally get rid of that stupid Moron Cox and his clowns. TP will not be retained by the new manager. With a resume like he has, no friggin way.