So how come the current Braves can’t hit but ex-Braves can?
I’ve never been one who believed Terry Pendleton was the problem. As the saying goes, he can’t step in and hit for his guys. (It might be better if he could.) But then you look at these batting averages, and even a Pendleton admirer must cringe.
- Chipper Jones, .271.
- Brian McCann, .271.
- Jason Heyward, .246.
- Yunel Escobar, .188.
- Troy Glaus, .186.
- Matt Diaz, .175.
- Melky Cabrera, 153.
- Nate McLouth, .146.
Take away Martin Prado — who is, it must be stipulated, second in the National League in hitting at .406 — and the totality of the Braves’ regular lineup isn’t hitting Prince Fielder’s weight. Which is incredible.
The Braves rank last in the league in hitting at .228. (And remember, that’s with Prado doing a Ted Williams.) They were no-hit by Ubaldo Jimenez. They were shut out by Roy Halladay. They were one out from being blanked on a night Kyle Kendrick started for the Phillies. They were shut out over five innings by Mike Pelfrey on Sunday.
They didn’t score an earned run in three games against a Philadelphia starting pitcher. They scored three runs in 23 innings against the Mets. They’re in last place in the NL East, behind even the Washington Nationals. Yow.
And now we check another set of numbers, these belonging to players who were Braves in 2009 but who aren’t today:
- Jeff Francoeur, Mets: .286 average, three homers, 10 RBIs.
- Kelly Johnson, Diamonbacks:.322, seven homers, 12 RBIs.
- Casey Kotchman, Mariners: .279 average, three homers, 14 RBIs.
- Adam LaRoche, Diamonbacks: .278, one homer, seven RBIs.
Again, I’m not one who usually blames the hitting coach when big-leaguers don’t hit. But it does seem the guys who aren’t Braves are hitting in a way the Braves aren’t. You tell me: What does that say?
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688 comments Add your comment
Jon
April 26th, 2010
10:32 am
Hey heres a good reason the Braves aren’t hitting! They have GLAUS! NOBODY WANTED GLAUS! NOBODY STILL WANTS GLAUS! NOBODY WANTS GLAUS IN THE 5 HOLE! Bobby should quit now! Heres another reason: NOBODY WANTED TO TRADE VAZQUEZ for CABRERA! The team can’t rally because all the rallies are killed. We are lucky to get 3 hits in a row…
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:32 am
“Do hitting coaches matter at all? It seems a lot of people don’t think they do.”
Not sure if hitting or pitching coaches really matter. I think the manager is the one who counts the most. He’s the one that the players will either try hard for, or not…So far this season, the Braves players except for pitching, seem like they don’t care.
When Leo Mazzone left the Braves and went to Baltimore, I think that was really a glaring answer as to how unimportant hitting & pitching coaches really are.
MB, just kidding about the Smoltz thing LOL.
Old Guy
April 26th, 2010
10:32 am
I think there is the mentality that it’s Bobby’s last year and he ain’t gonna go making changes. Send Melky and Glaus to the minors for a week or two and well if you have to fire someone. Wake up call time. Ewww closed door lectures. BS. Get these guys attention or we will have a 100 loses.
leroy
April 26th, 2010
10:32 am
The problem isn’t Wren, Cox, or Pendleton folks. It is YOU, the people of Atlanta and North and Central Georgia who don’t support the team by coming to the games and supporting the team financially which then turns into player salaries.
Every home game played on a week night is played to less than half capacity and closer to one third. Home games in Philly, St Louis, Chicago, NYY, Boston, LAA, etc are played to near full or to full capacity every game, not just on weekends or holidays.
When you have corporate ownership and not an individual owner who treats the team as a play toy and spends in the red this is what you get… a patch work lineup and yearly turnover of players based not on performance but on finances. The patchwork approach of penny pinching has led to some terrible decisions with prospects too where guys were traded for short term gain when the club wouldn’t spend the money long term.
Ted Turner was willing to throw the money out even when the fans didn’t have his back because he had TV revenue nationally and he was a hometown guy. LM will not do that because they don’t and the fans aren’t holding up their end, so YOU, the apathetic fans of Atlanta, get what you pay for, which is mediocrity.
Brian from SC
April 26th, 2010
10:33 am
1. You’re working with a sample size of 3 weeks.
2. LaRoche is actually hitting worse this year than he did last year with Atlanta, so…
3. Kelly Johnson is being helped tremendously right now by his home park, the best hitter’s park in the league. He’s hitting .188 with no homers and 1 RBI on the road.
4. Have you watched Francoeur in the last week or so? Do you really think he’s fundamentally any different?
5. Players have so precious little control over what happens when a ball hits a bat. How much less control do you think a hitting coach has?
julio franco
April 26th, 2010
10:33 am
Bradley..Why aren’t you as direct in your criticism of Wren? He is the one who brings in the scratch and dents to our line up. Thats right this is a one paper town. There’s no need to.
eric the elder
April 26th, 2010
10:33 am
There is a big push in this country to fire teachers whose kids don’t do well on standardized tests. Never mind that some of those kids show up at school maybe once a week. Accountability! Fire the teachers!
But CEOs of failing businesses continue to get obscene bonuses and hitting coaches of teams that can’t hit continue to take up space in the dugouts. No accountability.
How many times have we seen really bad teams suddenly become really good teams when the manager is replaced? I don’t know whether it’s fair to blame TP, but something is needed to get these guys out of their comas.
wintervilledawg
April 26th, 2010
10:34 am
I’ll answer my own question. Becuase Cox lays off the players and allows them to be overly aggesive. “go ahead and swing at the first pitch”. Well the result is a majority of the time you are behind in the count and then the pitcher has the upper hand. Look at how Torre managed hitting, the playres were told to work counts, foul off balls and wait for your pitch. How many titles did they win with this philosophy? Instead we have Troy Glaus going up with a pitcher who has thrown over a hundred pitches and just walked the previous batter for runners on 2nd and 3rd. What does he do… weakly swings at first pitch and hits into a inning ending double play. I am completely over the prospect of Glaus doing anything for us if he is that dumb!!!
Najeh Davenpoop
April 26th, 2010
10:35 am
In fairness, LaRoche and Kotchman didn’t do any worse as Braves than the stats you have quoted, and Francoeur has cooled off considerably aince his hot start. Kelly Johnson and Andruw Jones, on the other hand, are on fire.
Unlike football and basketball, where schemes and substitutions are critical to winning, I’m not sure how much you can really credit or blame a coach in baseball. In my lifetime most of the Braves teams I’ve seen weren’t necessarily great hitting teams — even the 1995 team only hit .250. My recollection is that the 2003 team was by far the best offensive Braves team I’ve seen, and if I’m not mistaken Pendleton was the coach then.
Sure, the Braves should be hitting better, but even still, you have a career .250 hitter coming off surgery at first base, a 20-year-old rookie in right field who will have his ups and downs, and two career .260 hitters penciled in the outfield. So even if Chipper, Escobar, McCann, and Prado hit well, that still leaves at least four lineup spots that are pretty unreliable. I think you gotta point the finger at the front office before you look at the coaching staff.
Ted M
April 26th, 2010
10:35 am
Braves really need to win tonight. The next 3 pitchers St Louis has lined up are great.
Dale
April 26th, 2010
10:37 am
My wife and I were just saying the same thing this weekend. Looks to me like the common problem lies with TP..
01HAWK
April 26th, 2010
10:37 am
As I have stated before………………………………Fire the entire staff NOW before the season is out of hand.
I know this is BOOBY COX’s swan song, but, enough is enough.
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:37 am
How much $$$ does Pendleton make? Just curious.
Richie
April 26th, 2010
10:37 am
The problem with the Braves offense lies no so much with Terry Pendleton but with the approach this organization as a whole takes toward hitting. All organizations have hitting philosophies. The Red Sox, Yankees, Twins, Phillies and a host of other good teams teach their players from single A ball all the way up to the majors to work the count, be patient, swing at your pitch not the pitcher’s pitch, etc. The Braves have NEVER had a smart organizational approach to hitting, even in the 1990’s with their run of 14 straight division titles but only 1 World Series. I have a great deal of respect for Bobby Cox, however, he has never been a manager that appears atleast to care about manufacturing runs. He would rather sit back and wait on the long ball and hope that his pitching is good enough to hod on for a win. Problem with that is, there are not too many Tom Glavine type performances night in and night out like he pitched in Game 7 of the 1995 World Series. Why do you suppose the Braves have lost so many one run games over the last 2 to 3 years? They are incapable of manufacturing runs because they have a manager who is to stubborn to alter his philosophy and an organization that from top to bottom has its collective head in the sand when it comes to a fundamental approach at the plate.
Mark Bradley
April 26th, 2010
10:38 am
Pendleton was the hitting coach in 2003, Najeh.
Mark Bradley
April 26th, 2010
10:39 am
I’m going to the Hawks’ shootaround across the street. Anything you’d like to know?
wintervilledawg
April 26th, 2010
10:40 am
Leroy, so we are supposed to spend a couple of hundred dollars to take our families to the park to watch a bunch of over payed indificuals not work as a team. Maybe you have that kind of money to spend but most of us at this time do not. If teams like Boston and New York would stop throwing obscene amounts of money at their players then maybe salaries could be controlled among the rest of the teams that can’t pay that much. Atlanta was very excited and sold out every game in the early 90’s before the strike. After that, the southerners were about the only group of people that stood together in their disgust at an outrageous system that pays poor performance and behavior.
Mr. Obvious
April 26th, 2010
10:40 am
For all of his inconsistency at the plate, frustration with himself and the constant abuse from the fans, at least Troy Glaus can still be thankful he isn’t Jeff Schultz.
jokurone
April 26th, 2010
10:40 am
The Braves are a old Jalopy with a new set of wheels(Hanson,Heyward,JJ,Venters)engine worn out(Lowe,Cox,Chipper,Glaus)!
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:40 am
Mark, do you think Leo Mazzone was the luckiest pitching coach on earth for a string of several years?
Brian from SC
April 26th, 2010
10:41 am
Also, you’re lumping those top three guys in there as if to say that TP is negatively affecting them. Brian McCann right now has his highest OPS in four years. Chipper’s well above average, even at 38 years old, and much better than last year. And Heyward is a rookie with an .862 OPS.
Those three players should be going in the column to support the hitting coach, not attack him.
One problem is you’re using batting average as your main offensive stat. That’s like going to work in a horse and carriage.
GPB
April 26th, 2010
10:41 am
Thanks for being late to the game Mark. But it’s more than just that. We don’t have any consistent power. We don’t have guys stealing bases. There’s not really any clutch hitting. Besides, it doesn’t matter how good of a hitter Pendleton was – it’s how well you can work with hitters to be successful. Make Prado the hitting coach.
The fundamental problem is we’re still trying to play for the 3 run homer instead of playing small ball or even a mix. And that’s why I don’t have any Braves on my fantasy roster.
Also, a big F&*(^*&^) you to Kelly Johnson for causing me to lose in fantasy baseball last week.
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:42 am
“I’m going to the Hawks’ shootaround across the street. Anything you’d like to know?”
I’m not a big Hawks fan, does Super Lou Hudson still play for them?
Alphare
April 26th, 2010
10:42 am
If you ask me, I blame the general manager and bobby cox, Glaus, Melky and Nate are in the lineup people. They cannot do squash. I don’t know why Glaus and Melky are with the team(blame the GM), and they are playing (blame Bobby).
A big part are not contributing, which leads to other players pushing themselves. And the next thing you know nobody is hitting properly.
That’s my 2cents.
Rob
April 26th, 2010
10:43 am
Kelly Johnson is FINALLY with a manager who won’t platoon him against lefties and sit him the day after he goes 3-4 with a HR. He’s got the full confidence of the AZ staff, and so even when he does inevitably slump for a week, they’ll continue running him out there so that he’s not having to look behind his shoulder at who Bobby Cox will replace him with in tomorrow’s game.
With that said, Martin Prado has been a revelation. However, how good would Kelly look in LF right about now?
I’m not cutting Glaus yet– he’s hit into some terrible luck. The Braves collective line drive % is actually quite high while our BABIP is quite low– that tells me we’ve hit into some bad luck. With that said, I’m anxiously awaiting the promotion of Freeman next year. Lets not kid ourselves- he won’t be ready this year. Lets give the kid a chance to actually force his way into the lineup.
The Braves, for whatever reason, have historically been terrible at leaving gaping holes at 1B and LF– two positions that are traditionally VERY easy to fill given the abundance of players who can actually hit who play those positions. For example, many fans (including myself) were urging the FO to take a flyer on Nelson Cruz 2 years ago when he was Designated for assignment- how nice would he look in our OF? Carlos Pena of the Rays was signed on a minor league contract before going nuts on the league and signing his extension. We could have had him for pennies on the dollar as well. Kelly Johnson isn’t making much more than Melky freaking Cabrera– yet they were willing to pay Cabrera’s 3M+ salary but not a power-hitting 2B/OF who was home grown? Screw the FO.
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:44 am
Mark if you’re leaving, you can count on me to take over this blog.
Ok losers, next question?
Najeh Davenpoop
April 26th, 2010
10:44 am
Since 1991, the Braves have scored over 800 runs in 7 seasons, and Pendleton was the coach during four of those seasons.
That’s not necessarily an endorsement of Pendleton; it’s just me wondering whether Pendleton was a great hitting coach then but forgot how to coach now, or whether the Braves just had better hitters during the years they scored more runs.
NoWayPendleton
April 26th, 2010
10:45 am
If the Braves put Pendleton as Manager after this year, we will stink for years. God help us.
j-man
April 26th, 2010
10:45 am
Ask why the Hawks layed an egg (pun intended) against the Bucks without Michael Redd and Andrew Bynum? Ask why they can’t beat anyone on the road?
Dominique Foxworth
April 26th, 2010
10:45 am
I have been on the TP MUST GO AS HITTING COACH Bandwagon for years! Every hitter he gets regresses in time. KJ got dropped for no good reason other than he had bad coaching! Andruw never fully developed as a hitter under his tutalage. Chipper Jones has had a power outage over the last few years to rival the Great New Jersey Blackout! Enough is enough! BRING IN A LEGIT HITTING COACH!
W/E
April 26th, 2010
10:45 am
move Chipper to first, Prado to third and infante to 2nd. rearrange the batting order to prado leading off with escobar 2nd(where he succeeded last year), chip 3rd, Mac 4th, Jey-Hey 5th, Diaz 6th, Infante 7th, and McClouth/Melky 8th. If Chipper would just switch corners he’d have a better shot at staying healthy. I’m ready to end the Glaus experiment. It’s not just the sucky hitting, but he’s a liability as a fielder.
Trevor
April 26th, 2010
10:46 am
Its time Bobby. Its time to forget about the feelings and egos of your veterans and play the hot hands. Infante (starting in OF and taking 3rd base at least twice a week to keep Chipper from hurting himself) should be leading off, followed by Prado, Heyward, McCann, Hinske (who should be given the first baseman job outright), Chipper (if healthy), Escobar, Diaz, Pitcher. Who cares if the vets get to sit the bench, THEY AREN”T HITTING. I hate to say it, but Glaus needs to be a backup…nothing more. Do this Bobby, and success will come to you on your last year. Its time to stop being a “player’s manager” and be a winning one.
BuckheadBrave
April 26th, 2010
10:47 am
I just don’t understand some of the signings. Sometimes it seems Wren will do anything to seperate himself from schuerholz and the legacy then at the same time he will hang on to players from that era like they are family (Chipper Jones). One move I really don’t get is you need an outfilder, you have 2 options, both seem past their prime but one is approaching 40 and never played anywhere near the east coast, the other is only 33 and is one of the most popular Braves of all time who you know can regain at least some of his past performance. Why on earth did Wren sign Garrett Anderson over Andruw Jones last year? They would have been at worst equally productive but Andruw would have brought fans back at least for awhile. Seems to me Frank isn’t a good businessman. Also why on earth would we not have at least attempted to put Kelly johnson back in LF before letting him walk???
Brian from SC
April 26th, 2010
10:47 am
The Braves have not finished lower than 6th in the NL in runs scored in the last seven years. They led the league once, finished 2nd once, 3rd once, 4th once, 5th once and 6th twice in the last seven years.
jj
April 26th, 2010
10:49 am
I wish people would look around the league and you will find that a lot of players are hitting or pitching below par.It is only April.We got a lot of baseball to play.My only problem is the one we’ve had for years,Bobby Cox.The Rockies were playing like the Braves have been playing for the last many years last year and they made a change and took off.The Braves are stuck in neutral and will not shift gears.You can’t be kind in this bizness when you ask people to spend their mony on an old movie.
Zack
April 26th, 2010
10:49 am
It also doesnt help that chipper has a postgame interview every other game saying he felt a “pop” jesus christ… its getting old
Delbert D.
April 26th, 2010
10:49 am
Has there ever been a hitting coach who demonstrably improved a team’s hitting?
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:50 am
To show you exactly how exciting this 2010 Braves team is, if Brian McCann had one more stolen base he’d be tied for the team lead.
ugadawg
April 26th, 2010
10:51 am
Our 2 best hitters Chipper and Mac go to their dads for hitting and everyone else gets better after they leave or get worse once they get here so yes TP must be looked at and ran out of town
idea
April 26th, 2010
10:51 am
McLouth should take BP right handed and Gluas should take BP left handed so when they step to the plate on their natural side come game time it’ll feel more comfortable. have Mely hit lefty against a lefty in BP and righty against a righty. take em out of their element and when they get back to how they normally do it it’ll feel that much more confortable to them. this may not work but it’s not gonna make them any worse
idea
April 26th, 2010
10:52 am
Melky not Mely
Alphare
April 26th, 2010
10:52 am
When the braves are good, they have Chipper/Andruw/McGriff, which could hit a combined 120 homers. Now they are replaced with Old-chipper/Melky/Glaus, do you really expect them to be any good?
Wake up people! I did not give them a chance before the season started. They will have another year of 2nd or 3rd in the East.
Ted M
April 26th, 2010
10:54 am
Okay Chris,
I want to know if Escobar apologized to his teammate in the dugout after not tagging up. Seems like every teammate everywhere would say something like “sorry guys my bad”
But I don’t think he did.
Chip Shot
April 26th, 2010
10:54 am
Rome Braves to be swept in a 4 game series.
ArkyTech
April 26th, 2010
10:54 am
Mark, thank you. Everyone’s quick to dump on Wren, but never seems to hold the coaches accountable for performance. Stats aside, I’ve had a big problem with the Braves situational hitting over the past 3 seasons – not moving guys over, leaving runners at 3rd with 1 or no outs, etc. In my mind that is why we have lost so many close games in recent years.
Chip
April 26th, 2010
10:54 am
When Tommy Hanson got the 1st hit last night by a Braves pitcher this season, that put him real close in batting average to more than half of the starting lineup.
bry22
April 26th, 2010
10:55 am
TP must go and some other batting coach should take his place. Every player that leaves the Braves hit better with the new club. Only common thread is Pendelton. Numbers don’t lie. And there are enough examples to see this is not a fluke. He has got to go!
NORRIS
April 26th, 2010
10:55 am
You have to ask the question of what the Purpose of the hitting coach is? They are there to help when players struggle. TP is not effective in helping when players struggle.
Of course these players are professional and they got there on their ability. So, yeah there will be times that he isnt an issue. Because the players will hit at times because they are professional. But the bottom line is that he HAS NOT been able to help these players in crisis and that is what he is paid to do.
Its sad when these players have to return to high school coaches to help. Just watching these guys in the dug out lets you know they are pressing. Pendleton is no where to be found and you never see him helping. He is always sitting in the corner watching.
doug
April 26th, 2010
10:55 am
pendleton was a good player not great , but as a coach what has he done, he has mess up a lot players francouer, johnson,. this team bring back don baylor asap
BuckheadBrave
April 26th, 2010
10:55 am
What do we stand to lose by signing Jermaine Dye to a minimum contract right now, i bet he wouldnt hit below .200 in LF