Johnson to the Knicks? Hawks’ Joe won’t say it ain’t so
It’s old hat to LeBron James, but it’s new to Joe Johnson. When you’re a big-name player and you’re about to become a free agent, a game at Madison Square Garden means getting asked, “Would you sign with the Knicks?” Joe got the full treatment Monday, and he didn’t, you should know, say no.
The three major New York newspapers — the Times, the Post and the Daily News – all ran the obligatory “Joe-to-the-Knicks?” story. In the midst of a season in which New York’s NBA entry has won three times against the Hawks and only 19 times against the league’s other 28 teams, star-based speculation counts as big news in the Big Apple.
Times headline: “Hawks’ Johnson, free agent to be, lurks as a prize without the hype.”
Post headline: “Joe: Knicks an option, if …”
Daily News headline: “Atlanta Hawks’ Joe Johnson may be best shot for the Knicks.”
If you have time to click on only one of the Joe links, the Daily News’ version, written by Frank Isola, is the ticket. From Isola’s report:
Johnson stands alone in the 2010 free-agent class in that the All-Star shooting guard may be the most realistic option for the talent-starved Knicks. Johnson already has rejected a “max” deal with the Atlanta Hawks and has a good history with [Knicks coach] Mike D’Antoni. Plus Johnson’s agent, Arn Tellem, is responsible for orchestrating the trading deadline deal for Tracy McGrady that freed up additional salary-cap space for the Knicks.
Team president Donnie Walsh traded two first-round picks to Houston to finalize the deal and the feeling around the NBA is that Walsh never would have given up so many assets if he didn’t have a good indication that one of the top free agents is strongly considering New York.
“I don’t think it’s a reach to say that Arn could influence Joe’s decisions,” said a Hawks official. “There’s nothing wrong with that. But we could still offer the most money.”
“Wink-wink” deals are against NBA rules, but they are next to impossible to prove and happen all the time. That doesn’t mean the Knicks have such an agreement in place with Johnson. In fact, Johnson was clear last night that his preference is to sign with a ready-made team, which would seem to include Atlanta but not necessarily the Knicks.
From the Post’s story, written by Mark Hale:
Question is, would the All-Star guard be comfortable in a major town like New York?
He insists he would be.
“Yeah, definitely,” Johnson said last night before posting 22 points, five assists and four rebounds in the Knicks’ dramatic 99-98 win over his Hawks.
“It’s nothing but basketball. I’ve been playing this game pretty much my whole life. I could care less where I’m at.”
Johnson raved about Madison Square Garden in postgame.
“It is the Mecca of basketball,” he said. “Everybody I think really gets geared up to come and put on a good performance.”
If I’m the Hawks and I’ve just lost to the woebegone Knicks by a point, I don’t know that I want to hear about MSG-as-Mecca. Nor would I want to see this in Jonathan Abrams’ story in the Times:
“I think everybody is going to be in contention,” Johnson said. “I can’t really say just one team that I’m looking forward to playing for. I don’t know. I think it’s going to be an exciting summer, and we’ll see what happens.”
An exciting summer? Doesn’t, like, spring come first? Isn’t it possible the Hawks will play games of consequence come April and May? Might those not be “exciting”?
Ah, well. That’s the way of NBA free agency. You’re nobody unless the Knicks want you. And the Knicks apparently want Joe Johnson. But he’ll wind up staying here. Because, as the unnamed Hawks official told the Daily News, they can offer the most money.
Besides, New York is the worst possible fit for Johnson. He’s famous among teammates for his ability to sleep anytime anywhere. A guy who loves to snooze working in the city that never sleeps? It’d never work.
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118 comments Add your comment
Matt
March 9th, 2010
11:39 am
It’s not like this team is elite even with ISO-JOE. Elite teams don’t lose to the Knicks or the Warriors, etc. This team has underachieved and Joe and Woody need to go IMHO. I don’t see Joe being an “elite” free agent and don’t think that it would impact the decision of the other free agent whether to sign with the Hawks or not. (Of course, the ASG is the “Poison Ivy” of all professional sports ownership groups. They have lifted even Donald Sterling over them)
MannyT
March 9th, 2010
11:42 am
OOPS–I jacked up my math on prior post.
MAX Hawks 6 yr/122,901,345
MAX other 5 yr/94,102,680
If the Hawks are willing to go max, the 2.5% extra raise and the last year worth almost $25 mil would keep almost any player here.
Show of hands for all y’all giving up $25 mil when you are 35 years old at the end of your last best contract!
cdog
March 9th, 2010
11:43 am
WHO CARES? LET JOE JOHNSON GO. HE’S NOT DOING ANYTHING HERE TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.HE HAS SHUT DOWN FOR THE MOST PART THIS YEAR.WHEN YOU CAN’T BEAT THE NEW YORK KNICKS, YOU SHOULD BE GONE. THE HAWKS NEED PLAYERS WHO BELIEVE AND ARE COMMITED TO WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS.JOHNSON DOES NOT FIT THAT MOLD
Westurd
March 9th, 2010
11:47 am
Joe’s soft demeanor would get eaten up in NYC. Spike Lee would talk smack and softy Joe would leave the Garden in tears……
I like Joe, but he can piss off when he makes comments like, “I’m looking forward to Summer,” or, “I don’t care where I play” Loser!
JJ
March 9th, 2010
11:53 am
So we know Joe would be taking less money to leave. But we’re still unclear as to how much money we’d have to replace him if he decides to go. Some say the 5-year max and other say the mid level exception. Anyone care to break the tie?
P.S. It sure would be nice to have someone in the local media do an actual story with facts about what would happen if Joe leaves. I.e. how much they could spend and what players might be possible. Instead of all this rampant speculation on a blog…..
gmoney
March 9th, 2010
11:54 am
Unbelievable comments by Johnson. That’s it…I am done with the Hawks and I aint paying to see them. And you know what and mark this down…THEY WILL NEVER…I REPEAT NEVER WIN ANYTHING WITH HIM AS THE LEADER…LET HIM GO.
CTrim
March 9th, 2010
12:01 pm
I think Joe would sign with ATL if we matched highest offer, but I’m afraid one of these cap clearing teams is definitely going to over pay for Joe to save face with their fans. With Al’s contract coming up the year after and Crawford in the fold, I’m not convinced we would match. This is simply a business to Joe. His lack of emotion and willingness to leave the Suns back in the day proves that (which I can’t necessarily knock him for). It would just suck to lose him now after how far we have come as a team and what we gave up to get him. Go Hawks!
SWAT Native
March 9th, 2010
12:13 pm
I read the Daily News article yesterday (which was interesting to see how other teams fans criticize their teams)talking about Joe Johnson. One poster said that sooner or later, everyone plays for the Knicks. Another poster called Joe Johnson a glorified Jamal Crawford, which he didn’t mean in a good way.
It was also amazing to see how little Knicks fans think of David Lee; almost all of the posters said he’s overrated and not deserving of a max-out contract.
SashaStevens
March 9th, 2010
12:14 pm
For all Hawk fans who are hoping for a title this year, forget it! If you are unable to beat the bad teams; New Jersey, Golden State, Knicks, then how on earth will you beat superior talent like Boston, Cavs, Magic, Lakers, Nuggets, Mavericks, Spurs and Suns. You wont. The Hawks need a coach who can take their superior talent and make them play inspired, championship calibre basketball. There is only one guy out there who I know can get the job done. He is also a former Hawks coach back from the ’70s and ’80s. H U B I E B R O W N.
O'Brien
March 9th, 2010
12:15 pm
Lil Jay, JJ
I’m not a cap expert, but I think the Hawks can offer JJ a bigger percentage increase each year compared to what the other teams can offer.
And although we can offer JJ a max contract, if he leaves, we would not have enough salary cap space to offer another player a max contract.
O'Brien
March 9th, 2010
12:17 pm
Mark,
There was also an article on espn dailydime about JJ.
If a certain someone, like maybe this certain guy in Cleveland, accepted a max offer from the Knicks and wanted Johnson as a sidekick, Johnson would be willing to sign for less than the maximum.
“I’ll sacrifice,” Johnson said.
OK, Joe. Then what would be the best-case scenario? “My number one choice? I don’t really know,” Johnson said. “I do not know what LeBron’s going to do.”
O'Brien
March 9th, 2010
12:19 pm
I should have known Manny T would have taken care of the “nimbers”
Benjamin
March 9th, 2010
12:27 pm
My question:
How does a team go 4-0 vs. the Celtics and lose three of four vs. the Knicks?
Just another sign that perhaps the ancient Mayans were right about 2010. What? 2012? Well, there goes that theory…
Still a strange oddity in the land of NBA basketball, though.
Idiot Watch
March 9th, 2010
1:08 pm
What kind of fool thinks Josh is a 3? Josh is and will always be a power forward! He is one of the best powerforwards in the leagues. Horford should either become a backup to Josh and What ever new center we get or he should be traded to make salary and roster room to get a center who can defend the post. DUH!
lmno
March 9th, 2010
1:12 pm
Its fine if Joe goes. Crawford can start. Greece is bankrupt so Childress might as well come to play the 6th man.
If we got someone like Chris Bosch, who would we lose? I suppose Marvin? Hate to see him go. You aren’t cutting Horford or Josh, so it would have to be Marvin who is just getting better and better.
hawks have no clue
March 9th, 2010
1:13 pm
after losing to the knicks the same way three times,i am convinced that although they are in the running for the playoffs, it will end the same. Sorry Joe, big time players control the game in the clutch. letting josh smith throw the ball away game after game, as well as taking 30 ft jump shots in the final minutes, is not going to cut it. maybe it is woodson, maybe just no leadership in the hawks. we have stepped it up with jamal, but now, we seem to be floundering like we haven’t a clue. watching bibby and josh throw away balls last night was very tough to watch. i understand this happens in a long NBA season,but, now is the time the hawks should be really coming together. marvin shows up one night and not the next. I think joe is a good player, but i am doubting that he is the big market player like kobe and lebron. sorry, we lose in second round as usual. i agree with previous post, i don’t think joe is the leader that makes others better around him. I guess that explains his ability to sleep anywhere…
Ben
March 9th, 2010
1:16 pm
You just re-upped Marvin last off season so he stays. Good luck Joe! I’ll take my hand at the DWade sweepstakes. Believe it or not we are in a much better position to win a title right now then either Miami, NY or Chicago (Wade hometown).
j
March 9th, 2010
1:20 pm
Business is business … if Joe really did say those things, let him go and take the coach with you … and who says a superstar wouldn’t come here? That makes no sense to me … Joe is following the money & not the chance to win (if that wasn’t the case, we never would have gotten him from Phoenix). Bibby & Jamal took discounts this season to keep this team together … if Joe doesn’t do the same, screw him … please bring in a new coach though, this team deserves better
just me
March 9th, 2010
1:36 pm
Crawford is the future of the Hawks’ offense. He has more charisma to be that 4th quarter leader. Joe knows it. Joe is incredibly talented. You’re not going to find many 6′8″ shooting guards like him. But he does not have that killer instinct that makes champions so hard to beat. Tim Duncan has more fire.
Benjamin
March 9th, 2010
1:38 pm
Tim Duncan has rings.
Billy O
March 9th, 2010
1:39 pm
Joe is selfish and shelfish players are not team players. He doesn’t care about winning a championship; he justs cares about himself and how much money he can make.
Toole
March 9th, 2010
2:02 pm
Joe would be eaten alive by the media in NYC. Joe has been pampered his whole basketball career. he is not a team leader and can’t perform like LeBron, Kobe, or D-Wade. He is not in their class!
Daniel
March 9th, 2010
2:07 pm
All right, here’s my jump into this conversation…
If Joe does not resign this would put the Hawks at around $47 million in salary. This would give the Hawks around 10 million to sign free agents if the cap number stays the same from this year. However, the cap number is tied to the league’s revenue, which is down the last couple of years. Some of the estimates I’ve seen has the salary cap falling next year to around $53 million. That would leave the Hawks with only $6 million to sign free agents along with the mid-level exception.
Daniel
March 9th, 2010
2:13 pm
Personally I don’t like the idea of signing a shooting guard for max money until he turns 28, especially with all the minutes on Joe’s legs. If Joe won’t agree to a deal like the one we offered (4 years, 60 million), I think the best bet would be to explore sign and trade options. This would give Joe the option for the 6th years, and give the Hawks an asset in return.
Think about this possible scenario. The Nets get the number 1 pick, which is essentially the rights to draft Wall. So the Hawks pull a sign and trade with Joe and Devin Harris as the principals. Harris is making less money and is younger, and can be paired with Jamal Crawford for at least the 2010-2011 season.
Robert Nephew
March 9th, 2010
2:16 pm
Thought experiment: What would our record be this year if we had lost JJ to free agency last summer. Our starting five would be Horford, Smith, Williams, Crawford, and Bibby. Primary reserves would be Zaza, Teague, Mo. Essentially, we would have traded JJ’s minutes for more minutes from Mo and Teague, and to a lesser extent Crawford.
My own guess is we’d be no more than about four games behind where we are right now.
My conclusion is that JJ is more expendable than one might think at first glance.
BamaFan
March 9th, 2010
2:18 pm
I agree completely with Deano. Joe is one of the most boring players beside Tim Duncan that I have ever watched. We don’t want anyone that doesn’t want to be here. He is not worth the hype they are making and in my eyes, not a game changer. New York can have him and see how he and T-Mac works out.
KEEPING IT REAL
March 9th, 2010
2:20 pm
Let JOE walk, we are a better team without him. What is a leader if he doesn’t lead? Time after time, HORFORD is asking for the ball but it starts with the guards (Bibby and Joe). I say get rid of them both, they are only trying to cushion there future and not look after the “TEAM”.
JOE is a caliber player but at times he doesn’t play defense, his free throws at the end of the game are horrible and his leaderships skills suck. “Silent Superstar” what a joke, this isn’t his team. Our Hawks consist of 7 players that don’t play as a team and WOODY has his hands full trying to make them a team night after night.
MannyT
March 9th, 2010
2:25 pm
@O’Brien – Nimbers R Us
@Benjamin – that’s why they play the games. Cleveland struggles with Charlotte. Charlotte lost twice to NJ. Styles make fights. Matchups make basketball games.
@Imno-check out #39 on the list. There’s a difference between the country of Greece and being a rich Greek citizen. Similar to the struggles of the state of Georgia to balance its budget these days having little impact on the personal wealth of Arthur Blank & Bernie Marcus. I think they can get by this year…somehow.
…and for all y’all that are waving bye to Joe Johnson, keep these facts in mind.
He’s your best on ball defender.
He’s probably your best small forward.
He’s the biggest, most disruptive guy on the team when playing his normal position (SG)
He gives you more options of playing with other players than anyone on the team.
If the Hawks somehow stole a top tier player, you would want a Joe Johnson to play with him (a la Pippen in Chicago) to make the team a title contender.
It’s time to stop looking at Marvin as if he drafted himself #2 & Joe as if he came here and said, I’ve come here to lead you to the promised land.
BWAF
Spud Webb
March 9th, 2010
2:31 pm
Joe Johson that was a rookie move to say you would play for the Knicks. Please go kick rocks! We don’t need your or your lack of leadership.
ELVISINTHEHOUSE.
March 9th, 2010
2:34 pm
I don’t think joe is a superstar player he’s just a good player.If wade was to come to atlanta who would be the go to player joe or wade? i think 95% would say wade.If bosh was to come to atlanta who would it be then? I think a big percentage would also agree that bosh would be,catch my drift.I would have traded him before the trade deadline along with bibby and got bosh and searched for a point guard that could actually break down a defence.Bibby is a sometime player,you never know what you will get out of him night after night.People was saying don’t trade him because of team chemistry,a player of bosh’s caliber would have brought chemistry.
northcyde
March 9th, 2010
2:55 pm
LOL . . . like clockwork. It never fails from this staff.
As for the fans . . yeah . . go ahead and run him out of town prematurely. We did the same thing with Jason Terry when he couldn’t live up to expectations around here.
If JJ bolts, Smoove will become the leader of the team. And when he can’t get it done, the Atlanta media and fans will turn on him too.
northcyde
March 9th, 2010
2:57 pm
MannyT . . don’t tell these folks nothing man. They know full and well what JJ brings to the table. I guess they’re merely tired of the dude, and want change for the sake of change.
LOL @ Crawford as the go-to perimeter guy, with no one here to take shots away from here. They’ll quickly turn on Crawford too, just like the fans everywhere else did. By the summer of 2011, we’ll be seeing “don’t re-sign Crawford” and “trade Smoove” posts.
Atlanta Fan
March 9th, 2010
2:58 pm
Joe Johnson is the tightest basketball player ever man… id be so pissed if he left, JOE ATL LUVS U MAN!!
NC Braves Fan
March 9th, 2010
3:02 pm
Anybody think it’s a little offputting that the Hawks’ team captain would answer questions like this at length, with the Hawks fighting for playoff position — and not playing particularly well as of late?
Why not say, “I’m not thinking about next year, I’m focused on helping Atlanta down the stretch and in the playoffs.” — ?
Ole Hawk's Fan
March 9th, 2010
3:17 pm
NEGRO DID U JUST SAY U DONT CARE WHETHER U IN THE ATOWN OR NOT?????? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK U BUSTA AZZ N66A WE A BETTER CITY W.O UR SOFT AZZZZZZZZZZZ I GUARENTEE IF WE HAD D-WADE THIS YEAR WIT OUR CURRENT ROSTER WE WOULD BE SECOND IN THE EAST EASILLY
sam
March 9th, 2010
3:34 pm
Yeah leave Joe….go!!!!
Overall you suck anyway.
You are soft…..you get tired easily….you always look like someone who has given up.
Although the Hawks gave you the big money….you are not a bigtime NBA star.
Jeff
March 9th, 2010
3:39 pm
This dude is hardly a superstar by any means. He’s a B level player. Let him go to NY and flounder just like everyone else has there. That team has not been worth a squat in 10 years and an aging Tracy McGrady and a B level player like JJ is not going to get them there. If you think LBJ23 is going to NY, think again. He’s a hometown Ohio kid on the brink of winning a title. Baby Mama is from Ohio, Mama lives down the road, huge house there…he’s not an idiot. His decision does not only affect him. So head on to NY Joe, you’ll be there pretty much by yourself. Knicks won’t win squat for the next 10 years.
Idiot Watch
March 9th, 2010
3:40 pm
Horford sucks and only gets set up shots and pre-arrainged spots. He cants create and Is turnover prone and is among the WORST, defensive centers in the game. He ranks #24 among NBA centers for block shots. Please Joe, do leave us with Horford.
Hoops
March 9th, 2010
3:41 pm
Joe will stay, period! The question is, who can we afford to add to the roster by trade or FA that puts the Hawks into contention?
Idiot Watch
March 9th, 2010
3:41 pm
we love ya joe, this is your team, I hope you and woody stay.
Gamer
March 9th, 2010
3:44 pm
A word of wisdom to Smoking Gun Joe Johnson. Don’t entertain questions on contract until season ends.
Stay focus. Identify yourself to be a team-first player, at all times..
The media circus will always be available to lambaste players and coaches.
You have proven talents to play the game at both ends of the court So why not let your game continue to do the talking…?
Help the Hawks go deep into the playoffs and crazy large sum of money will be there.
Smokewagon
March 9th, 2010
3:59 pm
I would have left his butt in N.Y.
David Smith
March 9th, 2010
4:02 pm
I think Rick Sund made a brilliant move bringing Jamal Crawford here as a contingency plan after Joe turned down a 4 year 60 million dollar deal. Joe is a good player but, lacks the attitude and the ability to take over games when it matters most.
Big Ray
March 9th, 2010
5:40 pm
Well, we could of course all listen to northcyde and just commit mass suicide because we are unworthy fans who don’t deserve to live.
Or we could admit that we will miss Joe Johnson when he leaves, of his own volition, to go to a place where he might like the coaching better (what, it’s a possibility? Noooo!), the marketing better (the “raises” the Hawks can give him don’t compare to the endorsements he can make money off of in one of the absolute biggest basketball cities ever), and the possibility of playing alongside another star.
While one blogger will blame us fans for a decision a grown man makes, we could consider that maybe Joe has, to this day, small twinges of regret about the day he decided he wanted to leave perennial title contender Phoenix, for a team that was being rebuilt. But nah, that’s not possible. No way. Joe is leaving, and he’s only leaving because the fans don’t want him here.
Playing in Madison Square Garden, one of the most famous places to play (where the fans are always there) has no influence. Joe was just kidding about “everybody gears up to play here.” His agent has no influence. Incredible marketing and endorsements have no influence. An old coach/friend who is good enough to get his team within reach of the Larry O’brien trophy is no influence. Playing with another star and having a good shot at said trophy is no influence.
No. It’s just us fans, beating and flailing a helpless, innocent superstar martyr out of town. That’s why Joe will leave.
Yeah. That’s it.
Will we miss Joe? Absolutely. Does life go on? Has to. The team will have to be built differently, run differently, coached differently. But hey, just blame the fans for that, too. After all, the fans make all the decisions, right? Fans pick who we get in the draft. Fans control free agency and trade moves. Fans. We just didn’t know we had the power.
Give me a freakin’ break…..
I’ve seen less self-inflating, flatulant nonsense coming from the New York Post….
Chills
March 9th, 2010
6:52 pm
bwahahahahaha!!!. life is good in the Eurozone.
jason
March 9th, 2010
8:07 pm
Let Joe go and get DWade!
Deano
March 9th, 2010
10:05 pm
All you Joe Johnson lovers do me a favor. Watch Joe during timeouts. Most of the time he sits on the scorer’s table and acts COMPLETELY uninterested in anything that Coach Woodson or his teammates have to say. He is not a leader. He barely opens his mouth on the court to talk to his teammates about what’s going on in the game. Watch Lebron. Watch Dwight. Watch KG. All these guys get in their teammates faces when they screw up. And they actually look like the enjoy playing the game when things are going well. These guys are leaders. Joe is not a leader. He looks miserable on the court. I watch every game on TV and I have been a Hawks fan all my life, but I don’t want this guy here. We need a leader. Just because you throw in a 20 point game from time to time that doesn’t make you a leader. You have to make the players around you bette to qualify as a leader, and he is not that kind of player.
Najeh Davenpoop
March 9th, 2010
10:28 pm
Just like LeBron, D-Wade, Bosh, and every other star or superstar that has played in NYC this year, Joe is now having this article written about him. These last two seasons have entirely been wishful thinking for the NYC sports media. None of those other players ruled out playing in NYC either, and not surprisingly, Joe threw them a bone as well. Not too surprising. It’s called increasing your market value. If the Hawks know that he might leave, they’ll do whatever they can to make sure he stays. I don’t see him leaving unless he feels disrespected by the Hawks’ initial contract offer.
And yes, the Hawks do need him to stay. The only way he leaves and the Hawks get better is if they sign Wade to be his replacement, which is next to impossible. No way Miami loses Wade to a division rival.
meee
March 9th, 2010
11:21 pm
we dont need joe johnson. we have JAMAL CRAWFORD. johnson is super slow and too inconsistant. we need jamal to start and post up the bigger numbers because he is way more athletic than joe and alot quicker. open your eyes people. common sense thats y we got jamal. the hawks are not going to keep joe and already told crawford he will start next year thats y he is gettin alot of mins now.
JeJe
March 9th, 2010
11:28 pm
Amen, Deano.
Joe is always looking sullen on the court.
He is NOT a leader, DOES NOT get easy baskets (like LBJ or Wade), barely averages 21 ppg on a team that does not have trouble scoring, and is a HORRENDOUS RE BOUNDER FOR SOMEONE HIS SIZE.
HE IS HEAD AND SHOULDERS THE BIGGEST SG INT HE GAME, YET DOES NOT GO FOR REBOUNDS AND IS AN ATROCIOUS REBOUNDER