After an egregious loss, we ask: Have the Hawks hit a wall?
Twelve days ago Mike Woodson said of his Hawks: “We’re right where we want to be. We’ve closed the gap on the top three teams, and now we’ve got to make a serious push and be committed. After the All-Star break, we have to really concentrate on trying to win our division … Somehow we’ve got to try to get the second spot [in the East].”
File that under “message not received.”
The night of Woodson’s call for commitment, his team lost by 18 points at home to the sub-.500 Miami Heat. The Hawks have since lost two of three on their Western swing, which can happen. But it shouldn’t happen when the second of those comes against a lousy Golden State team missing Corey Maggette on a night when the Hawks hold an 18-point lead. And now we have to ask: Has this club hit the wall?
After Jamal Crawford beat Phoenix at the buzzer on Jan. 15, the Hawks were 26-13. They’re 8-7 since. They’ve dropped from first place in the NBA Southeast to fourth in the Eastern Conference, which is where they don’t want to be.
Woodson’s point about needing to win the division is self-evident: If you finish ahead of Orlando, you’ll probably be second in the East, which would keep you clear of Cleveland until the Eastern Conference finals and give you the homecourt edge for two rounds, not just one. Instead the Hawks have fallen 2 1/2 games behind the Magic.
Yes, it’s a long season and every team hits lulls — Cleveland is 0-3 since the break — but the Hawks are the youngest of the East’s Big Four, and if any team figured to be fresh after the All-Star Game it was this. But the Hawks were chased down by the Warriors, who are 16-39 and who had eight healthy players. (Then again, Woodson played only nine men himself. No minutes for Mo Evans or Joe Smith.)
Joe Johnson got blindsided by Monta Ellis for a steal and tying hoop with a minute left. Golden State took a lasting lead on a free throw resulting from Jamal Crawford’s technical foul. (T’ed up with 34 seconds left in a tie game? Are you kidding me?) The Hawks mustered 14 fourth-quarter points against the team that ranks last in the NBA in defense.
It was exactly the sort of loss a team positioning itself for the playoffs cannot have. Even if the Hawks win tonight in Salt Lake City, Sunday’s game in Oakland cannot be retrieved. The schedule is about to get softer, but the questions now aren’t about the opponent. They’re about the Hawks. Are they as good as they seemed in January? Or have they gone as far as they can go?
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210 comments Add your comment
Khao$
February 22nd, 2010
2:37 pm
Horford isn’t the biggest issue. The issue is our guards put our bigs in bad positions. Quicker guards rip our guards and our bigs are put in a bad position. Honestly, I have a bigger problem with point guard play (both defending and orchastrating the offense) and coaching than anything Al Horford is/isn’t doing.
O'Brien
February 22nd, 2010
2:38 pm
Mark,
Date, Opponent, Hawks points SCORED in the 4th quarter:
11/6, Bobcats, 14 pts, Loss
11/26, Magic, 11 points, Loss
12/5, Mavericks, 16 points, Won
12/29, Cavs, 10 points, Loss
12/30, Cavs, 16 points, Loss
01/04, Miami, 17 points, Loss
01/27, Spurs, 16 points, Loss
02/10, Miami, 12 points, Loss
02/19, Suns, 14 points, Loss
02/21, Warriors, 14 points, Loss
It looks to me that the Hawks have a problem scoring in the 4th quarter. Our record for those 10 games listed above? 1-9.
Hawk n the Ham
February 22nd, 2010
2:39 pm
Mark, you are getting a lot of dumb questions and statements from people on here. These are obviously just random people that don’t watch the Hawks.
SWAT Native
February 22nd, 2010
2:40 pm
GMack,
I think that’s what Mike Bibby is supposed to be. That’s why they keep playing him even though his game is declining.
Geemack
February 22nd, 2010
2:41 pm
Mark
The Celtics may be 0-4 against the Hawks, but they can beat both Cle. & Orl in a 7 game series when healthy.
Conyers Hawk
February 22nd, 2010
2:43 pm
Mark: Worse than hitting a wall….the Hawks are about to be a train wreck. For the last month or so, they have been the worst 4th quarter team in the NBA.
Paul Blewitt (or Hewitt whichever)) will be available after GT exits the NIT early and before the NBA season is over.
Geemack
February 22nd, 2010
2:45 pm
SWAT Native
Has Bibby ever been that person in his career? I don’t recall him being that type of player. In Sac Divac & Webber were the leaders, and I’m not sure who was the leader in Vancouver, and they weren’t leaders anyway so I don’t think mattered.
Ted M
February 22nd, 2010
2:46 pm
a floor leader like Jarrett Jack
Geemack
February 22nd, 2010
2:47 pm
It’s one thing to be beat by Bos, Orl, & Clev teams that have more talent and just as deep, but GS that’s unacceptable.
Tim from EP
February 22nd, 2010
2:47 pm
Mark, Boston can’t beat Atlanta, because Atlanta is too young and athletic, along with the fact that Rasheed Wallace refuses to be a post up player. However, you act as if he Hortford is the sole reason they one. I’m just saying Hortford doesn’t match with the the best centers in the league and it just so happens, we will play at least one of them in the playoffs.
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
2:48 pm
Mark I agree with you about Joe Johnson downbeat demeanor. He is definitely not a team leader. Also last night Woody ran the starters way to long in the second half. Golden State used Josh lack of offense to their advantage by letting him take tough shots with the clock running down or turn the ball over six straight posession when they made their run. And why was he on the court at the end game when needed 3 shooters. GS left him open on purpose and look at the results. Woody has no idea on how to manage a game and situations.
Westurd
February 22nd, 2010
2:50 pm
“When the ship goes down, you betta be ready” – Cypress Hill
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
2:52 pm
Khao$
Well said….That is the problem and Woody refuses to play Teague and Moe to help with situation. Team with quicker point guards always exploit this and we lose.
Sonny Clusters
February 22nd, 2010
2:52 pm
Though Clusters can’t jump, Clusters are very good at playing ball and we would never lose to a team we had down by 18. That’s when you are supposed to open a can of whupaZZ and pour it all over ‘em. We was always beating teams we was supposed to beat and a lot of times they was no teams that was supposed to beat us. We was state championship but not in basketball but that was mostly because we can’t jump and we never had a basketball goal in our driveway because all that gravel would not let us get a true bounce. That is much like the AJC which lands in the puddles when it hits the driveway and bounces. It used to just hit the driveway and die but lately it has gotten so light that it bounces like a biscuit. Did they ever find the best biscuit in Atlanta?
Ben
February 22nd, 2010
2:54 pm
The problem with the Hawks (and the NBA in general) is that there are about 4, maybe 5, teams that have a legit shot at winning it all and the Hawks just ain’t one of ‘em. Upsets are so rare in the NBA past the 2nd round. It’s all fine and dandy to “believe” we can do it but history says we won’t. So what, we’re essentially just pulling for a good showing in the playoffs? That’s just depressing.
E43
February 22nd, 2010
2:54 pm
they need to figure out that backcourt. expecially knowing that joe and jamal are susceptible to going cold together. with bibby not playing well most of the times(shooting wise). i think he should have most of his minutes in the first half and less in the second.
fact 1) is hes hopeless out there with iso joe and iso crawford.
2) bibby plays better with the bigs.(starting and bench bigs)
3) the hawks have gone cold numerous times in the fourth quarter. you cant force shots to go in but marvin has a better chance of getting missed shots.
4)im not sayin bibby is losing games for us, im just saying that hes not needed that much in the fourth quarter.
i guess what frustrates me the most bout our this last loss is how bibby is supposted to be an assists guy but they put him on the court with iso guys when they need rebounding and deffense the most.
*our bigs are just about the most efficient group. Marvin may not be playing well but hes not the reason the hawks go cold in the fourth quarter*
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
2:55 pm
Mark I agree with you about Joe Johnson’s demeanor. He is some what negative with his after game comments. But never shows any fire on the court.
Tim from EP
February 22nd, 2010
2:57 pm
Khao$ — very good point. Smaller, quick guards as killed the Hawks (in particular Bibby) the entire season, which is why I don’t understand why Teague barely gets 10 minutes a game. I would have thought by this point Teague wouldn’t be getting more minutes going into the playoffs— especially after watching Curry kill the Hawks last night. I’m not saying Teauge is as good as Curry, but I don’t see how he can become better sitting on the bench. Didn’t Woodson do the same thing with Acie Law.
Also Mark– how come you didn’t bring up the records for Clevleand and Orlando, our most likely opponents if we make it to the 2nd round.
jmarable
February 22nd, 2010
2:58 pm
im starting to lose faith in Woody.Defense 1st yes,but u can stop a team all nite,u cant win unless u score points.Bibby cant drive to the basket and other teams KNOW it,no one penetrateS the defense but jamal.The offense needs some structure,some cuts down the lane.they all just stand around.this is gonna kill us come playoffs.i say get an offensive minded coach in here.woody scares me not using his bigs on the bench, and not caring about the offense.get him outta here.why not try the princton offense anything to get us moving in the half court set.u can just tell when teams tighten up the defense in the 4th quater we look lost.With no idea how to break a team down.Better let teague play more.
David Smith
February 22nd, 2010
3:00 pm
This second half swoon is no surprise to me and other Hawks fans who have followed this team for years. Mike Woodson is showing signs of panic due to his contract situation and is once again relying heavily on a seven man rotation again instead of trusting in his bench to give him some quality minutes.
I knew the real Woody would reveal himself eventually and his inability to adjust to whatever opposing defenses throw at us only validates the fact that he is a liability as head coach of this team.
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
3:00 pm
GS left Josh open on purpose last night so the offense would flow through him with the shot clock going down. Most teams try this when they are down against the hawks. Last night it worked big time. In six straight possession in the 4 qtr, he either took a difficult shot or turned it over. Woody left him on the court for the final possesion and they left him open again.
JaBe
February 22nd, 2010
3:03 pm
The Hawks need a coach who can put in place better offensive schemes, while emphasizing defense. They need one who recognizes the talents and limits of his players utilizing them effectively during games. A coach who does not ignore talented first round draft players and exiling them to the bench until they are useless to the team. And finally, a coach who uses his bench over the longhaul with the understanding of the need for fresh legs during the playoffs. Mike Woodson isn’t that coach.
Reggie
February 22nd, 2010
3:04 pm
Is this the same Mark Bradley that said the Colts would beat the Saints? And, the same Mark Bradley that couldn’t play dead in MacBeth? Hawks, if Bradley is against you, it means you have a hell of a chance.
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
3:07 pm
Golden State left Josh Smith open in the 4 qtr on purpose. It worked big time. Most teams use this strategy when they are playing the Hawks. For six straight possession Josh either took a difficult shot or turned the ball over. Then Woody left him on the court for the final possession. They left him open on purpose.
Ed
February 22nd, 2010
3:08 pm
The hawks are what they are. A slightly above average team with no takeover guy or true team leader like the teams better than them have. Good teams don’t lose with a 18 point lead in the 2nd half. This team will win it’s first round series and then get smoked in the 2nd round. Maybe win 1 game.
Tim from EP
February 22nd, 2010
3:13 pm
The Hawks ownership need to step and do the obvious..Get rid of Woodson and get AVERY JOHNSON. Can you imagine what Avery Johnson would do for Teague.
G-Money
February 22nd, 2010
3:22 pm
Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby have regressed. Woody is shortening his rotation and bench minutes. The players are not operating with a sense of urgency and focus. Your shot can be off on any given night, however that should not determine how you play defense and hustle. This team needs to grow up and understand that they are not overflowing with a plethora of talent. They have to come with maximum effort for forty-eight minutes every game, and when adversity comes fight back, do not collapse like a uterus.
Gamer
February 22nd, 2010
3:24 pm
Anytime a team have a double digit lead going into the third or final quarter, the coach should ensure that the ball get down low for three consecutive trips down the floor. Convincing the officials to blow the whistle with physical play at the rim.. NO LONG BALLS!!!! LIVE AT THE FOUL LINE..
OVERALL WOODY IS A GOOD COACH!!!
tarheelsfan
February 22nd, 2010
3:29 pm
1. Lack of respect. The Hawks get hammered by teams and nothing is called but on the other end if the Hawks look at someone the wrong way the get called for a whistle.
2.Woody. WTF. Where was Moe,Joe S. and did Teague or Zaza play at all in the second half. Although you have been here through 13 wins seasons, its time to get some new blood to get these players involved and moving the ball on offense. Geez. Im so tired of seeing Joe and Jamal pound the rock for 17 seconds of the shot clock.
3.Jamal you’ve been a beast all season but you blew it last night. The game was still yours before the technical.
4. Josh how many times are you going to the hole and just throwing the ball up hoping to get a call. Memo. you cry too much so they are not going to give you any calls.
Bruce Chen
February 22nd, 2010
3:29 pm
Blame the clown with no eyebrows!
ball king
February 22nd, 2010
3:30 pm
they are done!, everybody can give advice and offer solutions, but, evidentally the entire organization is not committed to winning. You Can Tell by the way they conduct business. For Example, They Know That They Really Need A “GOOD” BIG MAN, SO What Do They Do About It? “NOTHING” Is The Answer. They Have 2 BIG SORRY@SS Guys Taking Up Money And Space,Drop Them And Sign A Good Big Man From The D League. OOP’S I FORGOT, They’re Not That SMART And Sure Isn’t Committed To Winning, So There You Go. NEED NEW MANAGEMENT, EVEN DOMINIQUE IS ACTING LIKE THEM NOW, AND WE USED TO HANG & PARTY During the Omni Years. BELIEVE ME……… THEY ARE DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!……………………………………..
Khao$
February 22nd, 2010
3:32 pm
I just wonder what this team would look like with a real coach.
TM
February 22nd, 2010
3:34 pm
Up 18 in the 3rd Qtr and losing to the GS Warriors? You got to be kidding me.
A couple observations:
When you are down by 3 with only seconds left and your starting small forward is on the bench, what does that say about your starting forward?
When your starting forward scores 8-10 points a night and of those points 80-90% come from either a dunk, lay up or withing 2 feet… means your starting forward CAN NOT shoot! = MAJOR PROBLEM.
The Hawks need a consistent outside shooter to help out JJ and Crawford when he’s out on the floor. If Josh Smith shoots from beyond 15 feet, I would bench him right away. JS has made big strides this year with his shot selection, but not completely done.
Marvin Williams is a MAJOR problem for this team. And the Front office signed him to a new contract this off season. Whoever made that choice should be fired on the spot. He is the reason this team struggles. He is the reason the Hawks will be eliminated in the playoffs. I would trade Marvin for a bag of basketballs and find someone who can shoot a mid-range jump shot… and help this team!
Rob
February 22nd, 2010
3:39 pm
how in the hell do we let Stephon Curry and Monta Ellis all in the lane last night. they were not afraid at all, we have no intimidation factor at all, and whats with all the points in the paint!? Curry had a field day with our team, thats pathetic. Even Espn said it will be hard for hawks to recover after this one and we are trying to catch Celtics, and Magic. I just looked at the standings, we are four loses from being the freakin 5th seed. Toronto is breathing down our necks. better hope to hold that 4 seed or the the ceiling is comin down
BarryWhistler
February 22nd, 2010
3:40 pm
You call yourselves contenders for the eastern division crown, yet you are unable to beat a team with the third worst record in the entire league. Shame on you. Its nothing but lack of effort. Devner played Boston the other day. Even though Boston battled with Denver for the entire 48 mintues, Denver played like they wanted to win that game and led by 20 points after the first quarter. That shows you want to win the ballgame. The Hawks had the same chance against Golden State but couldnt pull away. When they advanced to an 18-point lead they shoud have kept their foot on the throttle to sprint out to a 30-point lead, but that lead is still not safe in the nba. The only lead i think is safe in an nba game is perhaps a 60-point lead. Then you are assured of winning the game.
James
February 22nd, 2010
3:42 pm
Joe Johnson needs to go I hope they don’t re-sign him cause he is going to be asking for a huge contract. The Hawks can sign two or three good players with the money that they would spend on Joe.
Yetta
February 22nd, 2010
3:45 pm
When Josh is on the bench the team loses the lead which Josh has given them; Josh is the backbone of this team, why would we bench him. Al is not a center and gets kplenty of help from Josh!
Rob
February 22nd, 2010
3:46 pm
how do you let ellis and curry score all those points! field day against our defense, we got to get a new instinct, illgauskas couldnt help us now, we have more mental issues to deal with. And wheres Evans and Joe smith @? What is woodson thinking?
T
February 22nd, 2010
3:57 pm
Two words, one name: Mike Bibby. He stinks, yet somehow continues to start. Start Crawford and bring the rook off the bench.
Sautee
February 22nd, 2010
3:59 pm
Joe Johnson pleasestay,
You said this about Horford:
“He couldnt handle The Lopez kid in Phoenix and almost got outplayed by there center last night.”
WTF?
Lopez – 12 pts, 9 reb
Horford – 10 pts, 9 reb
Yep, couldn’t handle him at all.
Biedrens – 4 pts, 13 reb
Horford – 26 pts, 11 reb
almost outplayed???????
Methinks someone is stretching things.
W A G
February 22nd, 2010
3:59 pm
Yetta…
I agree he is the backbone. But Woody has got to put him a position so he is not an offensive liablity. Movement is the key not ISO. ISO brings a double team and ensures Josh will get the on the perimter.
Dennis G. Berdanis
February 22nd, 2010
4:07 pm
Woody saying he will start using the bench is like an alcoholic saying they are going to stop drinking….tomorrow.
Steve Brown
February 22nd, 2010
4:08 pm
Woodson has iced Bibby, Marvin and Joe Smith. In their place we have a crunch time strategy that involves Johnson or Crawford going one on one or Josh Smith looking like a rookie on the offensive end.
JJ and Woodson are human and at this point their contract status has to be playing with their minds. Unless all six can turn it around we have no chance of impressing.
SWAT Native
February 22nd, 2010
4:11 pm
GeeMack,
Here’s a couple of examples of what I mean by Bibby as floor leader. I can recall a moment in a playoff game last year where Smoove was pouting and complaining about a call (once again) at a critical point in the game, and Bibby pushed him away and said something like “stop crying and play ball” and Smoove went back to work. Most of us remember the situation in last year’s playoffs when Woody jumped all over him after Smoove took another one of those long jumpers at the end of the 24 second clock, and Bibby basically told him that “the guy was wide open, if you don’t want him to shoot the ball you shouldn’t have him spot up out there” and Woody accepted it and walked away with a smile on his face. Woody wouldn’t have taken that from anyone else on the team (maybe not even Joe). He may not have been the leader with the Kings, but he was the young player on that team. He’s the older veteran now. Even Woody has referred to him as the coach on the floor. And, he’s been effective: did you notice a difference in the Hawks between when he came and after? Why else do you think they keep playing him?
Sautee
February 22nd, 2010
4:12 pm
Timt from EP,
I’ll call you Tim and not Timt, when you start calling Horford HIS name without the T.
A question for you:
Why do you think the Head coaches named Horford as the second-best Center in the East? Not Lopez, not Shaq, not Perkins?
If all of the aforementioned players are such a matchup problem, and dominate Horford in the paint, then why weren’t one of THEM on the All-Star team?
Freshmaker
February 22nd, 2010
4:16 pm
You guys crack me up. About half of you are complaining about Horford playing out of position and how the Hawks need a “legit big man.” Even if you are correct about Horfy being out of position (and you are not), who would could the Hawks get that would be better at C than our current All-Star C? If there was a decent option out there, the Hawks would go for it. Big men don’t grow on trees.
bowman
February 22nd, 2010
4:16 pm
Two words: Mike Woodson. Two more words: Must go.
Old habits are hard to break. Woodson’s old habit of playing too few players too many minutes is killing the Hawks as they near the stretch run. What happened to the deep bench? What happened to spreading the minutes around so everyone would be rested, and the young players would develop? Woodson is running this team in the ground as he tries to build a glossy win-loss record. Why? To get a new contract. This heavy-legged team won’t make it out of the playoff’s first round.
Joe Johnson sits only eight minutes (on average) per night. Even when he’s shooting 25% from the field, which happens far too often, he stays on the floor. It’s the some-old, same-old with Woodson at the helm. Here’s a shocker: Johnson’s season-long FG percentage is 0.02% better than Marvin Williams’.
It also doesn’t help this team hat 34-year-old point guard Mike Bibby is playing like, well, a 34-year-old. (Too bad Woodson hasn’t been bringing Jeff Teague along like he promised earlier this season.) On a 48 minute basis, Othello Hunter and Zaza Pachulia average more points per game than Bibby, and Teague averages more assists.
If a change isn’t made, and it has to be at the coaching level because the coach himself has shown that he can’t change, then the Hawks are one round and done in the playoffs.
bowman
– -
“Art will always be Art.” – Goethe
lexluther
February 22nd, 2010
4:19 pm
Mike Woodson is garbage as an Head Coach. How do you continue to allow this crap to take place. Man I could have done a better job last night. I’m just sick and tired of him looking clueless. Dang…how much more are we going to have to take from this guy….DANG!!!
lexluther
February 22nd, 2010
4:20 pm
Package deal…WOODSON,BIBBY,ZAZA,and Marvin for Monta Ellis and some cheerleaders.
Harry the Hat
February 22nd, 2010
4:21 pm
Yes, the Hawks have hit the wall. They always do.
It’s pretty sickening to see mediocre players being paid millions of dollars for such consistently poor performance. Where else could someone be so crappy and still get rich.