Audience participation time! Rate Braves' offseason moves!

mmgtfan

February 18th, 2010
1:01 am

first!

mmgtfan

February 18th, 2010
1:01 am

im on a roll!!

Andre

February 18th, 2010
1:06 am

LOL @ EPIC FAIL!!

Reid Adair

February 18th, 2010
1:07 am

I gave Frank Wren a “so-so” for signing Troy Glaus. All of the other moves were ranked the lowest option possible.

mmgtfan

February 18th, 2010
1:08 am

Im kinda surprised on the split on Greg Norton

Kelly Johnson Fan Club

February 18th, 2010
1:09 am

Signing closer Billy Wagner was: A great move.
Signing set-up man Takashi Saito was: A lousy move.
Trading closer Rafael Soriano was: A so-so move.
Trading pitcher Javier Vazquez was: A so-so move.
Signing Troy Glaus to play first base was: A so-so move.
Signing utility man Eric Hinske was: A so-so move.
Not re-signing Mike Gonzalez was: Wise.
Not re-signing Adam LaRoche was: Wise.
Not re-signing Greg Norton was: Greatest move ever.

Tom

February 18th, 2010
1:11 am

I dont think any of the moves were lousy. a few so-so moves that could prove to be worthwhile. I think Wagner will have the best closer year of any Brave that I can remember….yea, not saying much I know!

Tom

February 18th, 2010
1:13 am

I’m with Kelly Johnson Fan Club for the most part..I just think Glaus and Hinske have the chance to be good moves. but could be real bad if Glaus is gimpy. Remember, injury prone guys(see JD Drew) tend to have their healthy year(s) in ATL!

Bobby Hill

February 18th, 2010
1:31 am

The real tragedy in the off season was failing to trade Lowe. Which led to Vazquez being traded. Trading Vazquez didn’t free up as much cash, as trading Lowe would have, and taking on Melky’s salary didn’t help. The end result being that Wren didn’t have enough money left in his pockets to acquire the big outfield bat the team has needed since Andruw’s career jumped the tracks.

Of course this whole mess could have been avoided if Wren hadn’t over bought on pitching a year ago. He’ll be paying the price for that decision for three more years.

uga-brave

February 18th, 2010
1:40 am

this season hinges on nate, billy wagner, and troy glauss.

if that trio dials it up they have a chance.

hudson has to take it to another level. he needs to be what he was in oakland.

uga-brave

February 18th, 2010
1:43 am

gotta agree with bobby hill,

there is a chance the lowe contract will be heavy. face the facts, his whip in the second half of the season was scary.

A.J.

February 18th, 2010
1:48 am

I know Greg Norton was terrible last year, we should cut the guy a break. When he first came here from Seattle in 08 he was really good. He does not deserve the flack that he has gotten. Anyone remember Chris Woodward???

Mike A

February 18th, 2010
1:49 am

Bet Kelly Johnson puts up better numbers than Melky Cabrera next year.

Bob in SF

February 18th, 2010
1:56 am

Mostly so-so. The Vazquez trade has potential (the dirtiest word in sports) to be Alexander-Smoltz-ian in scope if Arodys Vizcaino blossoms into what some scouts think he can be. The Braves would have potentially a very young and cheap power trio at the top of the rotation with him Hanson and Jurriens. Wags and Saito know how to pitch but can they physically hold up at this stage in their career? They will get lots of work due to a probably anemic Braves offense and a manager notorious for picking 3-4 guys in his bullpen to wear out like rented mules. Glaus could be an out-DP machine as a hitter when he actually can dress out and who knows how much he will butcher 1B defensively, a much harder position to play than most people think. The Braves will need a come back year from McClouth and a ROY campaign from young Mr.Heyward to have any shot at making hay in the division much less competing in the playoffs.

Another Mark

February 18th, 2010
1:57 am

They royally screwed up by trading Vazquez and letting LaRoche roll. Glaus will get hurt- take it to the bank. Saito and Wagner are also very, very risky for injuries. Cabrera is garbage, and the Yankees are laughing all the way on that one. Yeah, we got a few prospects from them that may turn out nicely, but I thought we were trying to win this year? Vazquez/LaRoche/Soriano >>> Saito/Wagner/Cabrera/Glaus

Another Mark

February 18th, 2010
1:59 am

They got their feelings hurt that nobody wanted the Lowe or Kawakami bait. Well tough luck. You throw Kawakami into the pen despite his salary and keep Vazquez AND Hudson both.

Innocent Bystander

February 18th, 2010
2:16 am

How ’bout “Not Resigning Kelly Johnson was…” ???

uga-brave

February 18th, 2010
2:26 am

not resigning kelly johnson, the guy crapped the blue bean in every pressure situation. getting rid of him and the glory boy was the best thing wren did.

speaking of francoeur, he still has not met a microphone or a p.r. situation he does not like. the dude is setting him up for a impending diaster. jeff, step away from media.

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:11 am

Glaus was a reasonably priced gamble. Overall he is a poor hitter but the one thing he does bring to the table is power, which is a commodity the Braves were lacking. He is a good fit for the Braves in the sense that he is not a player you try to make finesse moves with. You hand him a bat and tell him to swing hard until he hits one far or misses three times. Great player for Bobby Cox. About the only way to mismanage him would be to bat him in the upper third of the lineup or to ask him to steal bases

Melky Cabrera – was not the focal point of the move that brought him here. He is a bit part, an adequate ballplayer but not a game-changer in any way

Adam LaRoche – At his peak, Glaus was better, but right now LaRoche is the better player. Then again, Glaus is cheaper

Javy Vasquez – had a career year. Sell high was the right move, and getting a true blue chip prospect for him wasnt a bad move. Opinions will differ of course as to how good or truly blue chip any prospect is. Vizcaino? Very raw. Big potential sure. Personally I wouldve liked to see them target a more finished product but philosophically you cant really condemn this move

Eric Hinske – Career adjusted OPS of 100. Slugs a little, used to could run a little, can play the corners or even of in a pinch. If there’s such a thing as a generic ballplayer, this is him.

Greg Norton – addition by subtraction

The bullpen moves – To my way of thinking, it just doesnt matter much who exactly the relievers are – whoever they are they are going to be abused and misused by Bobby Cox

Bottom line – Net result was took an asset we had in abundance (a starter) and converted it into a supporting actor and a prospect while also changing the names of some of the rest of the supporting cast.

Will Hudson be anywhere near his peak form? Is Chipper finally in his twilight or does he have time left as a big time run producer? Is Heyward ready to not only make the transition to the bigs but to be a significant contributor? Can McCann continue to be an everyday catcher and a big offensive cog as well for another year? These are the questions that will decide our fate this year

Of the moves they made, the only one that will really affect the team was not firing Cox – and that effect will be negative, just as it has been for the last twenty years

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:20 am

“Trading Vazquez didn’t free up as much cash, as trading Lowe would have,”

A trade requires two willing participants. Trust me, if they couldve found someone to take Lowe, they would have.

I can see this phone conversation

Frank Wren – Hey, you guys have any interest in Lowe?
29 other GM’s (one by one) – SURE! You pay 80 percent of his salary and we can talk. We’ll offer a second level prospect or a utility guy

Frank Wren – We’ll throw in Cox
29 other GM’s – No thank you
Frank Wren – Look, we’ll pay ALL of Lowe’s salary.
29 other GM’s – Nah
Wren – We’ll pay Cox’s salary too
29 other GM’s – What? Cant hear you. I think we have a bad connection
Wren – We’ll throw in a bag of balls, some used condoms, and an ajc sportswriter. Guy’s name is OBrien
29 other GM’s – click

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:39 am

Oh here’s some thoughts

1) Anyone still think we pulled one over on the Mets with that Frenchy trade?

Ryan Church for the Braves – .260 with 2HR and 18rbi in 126 at-bats with the Braves

Frenchy – 10HR 41 rbi and .311 in 289 at-bats for the Mets

Which would be bad enough. But let’s make it worse by doing some analysis on Franceour

Since 2006, Frenchy’s adjusted OPS’s in Atlanta were 87, 102, 72, and 68. His batting average for 2006-09 with the Braves – .266

What happened? Sure seems like a guy who had the ability all along, but was misused. Jerry Manuel got performance out of him – performance he had once had (2005) but had lost after exposure to Cox

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:46 am

Here’s some interesting stuff – ZiPS projections for the Braves for 2010

Chipper – 115 games, 400 at bats 15 hr, 58 rbi .295
McCann – 144/511/23/95/.288
McClouth 130/452/19/71/.268
Diaz 113/322/10/43/.307
Glaus 91/313/14/60/.252
Hinske 105/257/10/36/.237
Heyward 119/448/12/53/.275

Pitchers

Hanson 172.1 IP 14-7, 3.19 ERA
Jurrjens 208 16-9 3.46
Hudson 112 8-5 3.94

all figures from http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/2010_zips_projections_atlanta_braves/

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:48 am

Also from the above referenced link

“As of now, the Braves are my personal darkhorse pick in the NL. The infield should be solid, if unspectacular and while the outfield has been much criticized, there are enough bodies out there to patch an outfield good enough to keep from balancing out the strengths of the team. Jason Heyward forcing his way onto the team as soon as possible would allow a Hinske/Diaz platoon and let Cabrera fill in the remainder of outfield at-bats, a task he’s qualified for.
Now, the team’s a darkhorse for a reason as the Braves seriously contending does require a little luck with injuries because the positions where the team is most susceptible to boo-boos. Glaus missed almost the entire season with shoulder injuries and Jones is always an injury risk, but the team has very poor upper-minors depth at both positions. The rotation, if the projected 1-5 plays, is very strong and Hanson/Jar-Jar could be the new Smoltz/Glavine, but the team’s 6-10 options on the mound aren’t the best and Tim Hudson is still coming off major surgery. “

Kelly Johnson Fan Club

February 18th, 2010
3:51 am

Innocent Bystander (February 18th, 2010 2:16 am EST): How ’bout “Not Resigning Kelly Johnson was…” ???

Lousy.

Robert

February 18th, 2010
3:57 am

“The 2009 Atlanta Braves will always be remembered as a team that was built on a strong foundation of starting pitching and destroyed with a bulldozer driven by manager Bobby Cox.”

Not my assessment, but I couldnt have have said it better

Conyers Braves Fan

February 18th, 2010
4:52 am

Mark: I voted most all of the moves as lousy. This does not mean I think the Braves management made lousy decisions in all cases. I thinks the bad moves were mostly made because of lack of $$$ available to work with. I would say Wren did as much as he could do in most cases given the $$$ constraints. I think the Braves will be lucky to finish as good as they did in 2009…10 games
over .500.

MitchC

February 18th, 2010
5:02 am

Mark, the three worst things the team did this offseason were to trade Vazquez, not trade Lowe, and the closer situation. We should have kept at least one of the former closers, and not signed Wagner or Saito.

In fairness, maybe Vazquez did have a career year, and Lowe, based on his career numbers, may rebound, but, Lowe is going to be 37, and Vazquez is much younger. You also can’t tell me this team is better off with 38 year old closer Wagner, and (40?) year old setup man Saito, than we were with Soriano and Gonzalez. I dont buy it. Wagner was one of the top closers in baseball earlier in his career, and, while he looked healthy late last year with the Metropolitans, we always have to worry about breakdown, or pitching him too much.

Frank made some longshot riverboat gambler moves, and, nearly all of them have to work out, for us to compete for the wild card.

"Chef" Tim Dix

February 18th, 2010
5:36 am

“Being Greg Norton” coming to a public access channel near you soon!

Mike wren

February 18th, 2010
6:11 am

wanna bet cox will keep kelly johnson in line-up till he .208 avg at june…..did put mike prado in he bat 328 avg rest of season…..and again Cox great lousy moves will again make us look again while nats are inprovein n mets n phillies are n we in last place at all-star nothin like sendin cox out as a 70-92 loser in 2010…and folks get u 2011 season tickets Now

french fries good with chillie

February 18th, 2010
6:14 am

Oh and folks remember jeff Francouer (if spelled it right) well he be Mets startin right fielder n be ready for his finest 2010 ever ,338 n 30 hr n 107rbi at all star break…..while cox will ruin more arms then a bad case of rogaine!

USMC DAWG

February 18th, 2010
6:28 am

Maybe if this was 2001 or 2002, I could get excited about signing Wagner or Glaus. What is it with Wren’s fascination with signing players coming off Tommy John surgery? And you know Glaus will miss 20+ games. Still never got a player capable of hitting 35 or more HR. Yeah, yeah, I know Glaus… Next year, my only hope is that Wren goes after a player less than 28 years old.

runtt

February 18th, 2010
6:45 am

Melky money would have come in handy when we tried to get Johnny Damon.

Braves Fan Forever

February 18th, 2010
7:06 am

Considering all the moves were lateral moves and may even be a step down in some cases… The only way this club is considered better than last year is if…

1. Chipper rebounds – he must have at least an average year for this club to have any chance at all.
2. Troy Glaus/Hinske must equal an average LaRoche year
3. There are no significant injuries
4. Jason Heyward must make a decent contribution. Not asking for a miracle here but if he can give us 20 homers from right field, this club has a chance. (We know he will probably eventually hit 40 and drive in 120)
5. Someone steps in and makes a great contribution for an injured player (you know this club has a high chance of injuries in several key areas: 3B, 1B, closer).

Anything else: big year from Nate McLouth, Schafer makes a splash, Mitch Jones hits a few homers, the overall bullpen becomes better than we think, etc. is all icing on the cake.

Senator Blutarski

February 18th, 2010
7:06 am

Some of the moves that seem so-so now might seem better if some of the older vets who have had injury problems recently play anywhere close to their peak years. The Vazquez move doesn’t seem so great. Not re-signing Norton seems like a good move! It will be interesting to see how it all plays out–of course there are some “ifs” but with the pitching, the Braves should at least be competitive. Of course, “if” Chipper returns to form, “if” Heyward is ready, “if” Glaus can have a good year, “if” McLouth comes back to all-star status, “if” the two old relievers pitch anywhere close to past years, “if” Lowe rebounds to a the solid kind of form he’s displayed before, and so on–

puff

February 18th, 2010
7:29 am

How ’bout a “rate Mark Bradley” opportunity? The most consistently wrong guy writing/talking sports in ATL.

Michael

February 18th, 2010
7:35 am

Geeze, all this talk about Greg Norton reminds me of how much Bobby really did do to destroy the 09 season. He’d pinch hit him every time with the game on the line. EPIC FAIL BOBBY. EPIC FAIL NORTON.

Jordan's Almonds

February 18th, 2010
7:36 am

Don’t forget Mr. Jordan Schaefer. Something tells me he will bounce back from his injuries and be the surprise star of the 2010 season.

DogTheMan

February 18th, 2010
7:57 am

The Braves are at best a .500 team. I mean we have no power and as always the one of the pitchers will get hurt. We traded pitching and got nothing in return. Liberty has done nothing to help this team. And management has done nothing but shoot in the dark with no results. ITS GOING TO BE A LONG SUMMER!!!!

Walker, Texas Ranger

February 18th, 2010
8:01 am

To bounce back, don’t you fall from previous good years. Saying Schaefer is going to “bounce back” is like saying Terence Moore is a has-been. Terence was never famous, so how could he be a has-been.

Walker, Texas Ranger

February 18th, 2010
8:02 am

who is Mitch Jones?

hatfieldgeoff

February 18th, 2010
8:02 am

Trading Vasquez was a mistake, but if you do it the deal has got to provide some solutions to Braves needs. The trade did not do that. Melki Cabrera wasn’t an answer to the bat we needed, so why the trade? The minor league pitcher better pan our or you just gave away a good starter for nothing. Wren couldn’t deal Lowe and felt like he had to do something, so he weakens our pitching staff without meeting a need. Not very smart. He needs to pony up for Damon we need an experienced hitter in the lineup.

Nativebird

February 18th, 2010
8:04 am

Very so-so except for one very critical good move…as long as Adam LaRoche was the Atlanta Braves first baseman, this team would have never…repeat never accomplish anything of material importance. Not his fault, just that way it was.

tp

February 18th, 2010
8:13 am

Greatest move ever: Not losing sleep over the fact that I’ll never be ‘first’ to comment in a blog.

Smith fan

February 18th, 2010
8:19 am

How the hell did Cox and Wren get their Braves jobs with all these available experts who hide behind fake vent names?

Walker, Texas Ranger

February 18th, 2010
8:21 am

Vasquez trade is not that bad. If you are looking just a Melkey, then yes it was horrible but we got the Yankees best young pitching prospect (Vizcaino) along with a lefty prospect that has a chance to play this year. Vizcaino could be a 1-2 type guy in the next 3 years, so the trade wasn’t a bad one. Now the Soriano deal, that was bad. We traded a legitimate 8th or 9th inning guy for a dirty uniform and a dozen baseballs.

tp

February 18th, 2010
8:21 am

The lousiest move this offseason: Thinking we can rely on two injury-prone players to play the entire season at the corner infield sports (with no viable backups).

I don’t disagree with getting rid of Johnson and giving Prado a much-deserved starting position. But, that rids us entirely of the player who would have surely played 20 to 30 games at third (days off + conservative estimate of injury time for Chipper).

hop

February 18th, 2010
8:23 am

bottomline… the braves will limp into another 3rd place or worse finish,as wrenn comes up with more reasons why the braves had another embarassing year.my only question is
when does college football season begin?

F-105 Thunderchief

February 18th, 2010
8:26 am

As I wrote yesterday, IF Chipper hits and doesn’t sit. IF Glaus hits and can play first base well. IF Wagner returns to form and IF Heyward puts up Bob-Horner-rookie-numbers without also breaking his wrist, the Braves should contend. But that’s a lot of ifs. The 2008 Braves’ pitching staff was held together with bailing string. 2010 has that kind of feel, except the hope-they-come-throughs are spread around the diamond.

Benjamin

February 18th, 2010
8:27 am

As presently constructed, I’m deeply disappointed with the offseason. Frank Wren went into it talking about how we were going to build on 2009 and make contender moves, and then proceeded to swap our ace from 09 for a fourth outfielder, a mop up man, and a pitching prospect who won’t see the majors until 2013. (It doesn’t help that the ace went to the Yankees. After the run of 14, it’s embarrassing to feel like we’re helping other teams contend.)

To me, general managers shouldn’t talk about what contenders they’re going to be when their trump cards are Melky Cabrera, Troy Glaus, and two 38+ year old relief pitchers. We had a strong, strong foundation in place going into the offseason — just needed to find a viable first baseman and resolve the back end of the bullpen — and, while I like Saito, I feel like we gambled on all three. Having Troy Glaus and Chipper Jones on the corners is playing the ultimate risk, considering their health history of the past few years. If either one of those two miss substantial amounts of time, which is much more likely than not, we’re going to be right back where we started, playing “fill-a-spot” with utility guys who are best suited as such.

We’re strong in areas, but as per the usual of late, we’re going into the year with some pretty big question marks.

SCDAWG

February 18th, 2010
8:28 am

I ususlly don’t give Frank Wren much credit,but I do give him credit for building the overall depth and quality of the pitching staff.Time will tell how the other moves work out but pitching is 90% of the game and I do believe we have the best overall pitching staff in the NL.Wagner is the first true closer we have had since Smoltz and the rest of the bullpen should be much stronger,especially middle and long relief.LET THE GAMES BEGIN.

Dr. R.

February 18th, 2010
8:29 am

I think Wren’s hands are tied somewhat by ownership and the payroll. Many of the moves made — dumping Vazquez for cheap alternatives, signing Glaus, trading Soriano — were based on economics. Wagner was the only investment they made and it’s a short-term one. I just don’t think the Braves are going to spend money for a winner as they once did, and they’re going to have to muddle by as a mid-market team with a middle-of-the-pack payroll, kind of like Milwaukee, Cleveland and Baltimore. They aren’t going to be up there with the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs unless they get a moneybags owner like Turner again, and that’s not going to happen. So we just have to deal with it and understand that Wren isn’t to blame.

meh

February 18th, 2010
8:30 am

I like the free agent signings but the trades not so much. It seems like they could’ve gotten more for what they traded. It seemed like trades were more about getting rid of people than improving the team.

F-105 Thunderchief

February 18th, 2010
8:31 am

You may have noticed, Mark, that a large majority disliked the Vazquez trade. Posts from the many “experts,” who read the AJC blogs, however, seem to have run the other way. Weird.

Starring Kam Fong as Chin Ho

February 18th, 2010
8:33 am

Retaining Terry Pendleton as hitting coach is the worst move this off season. Can anyone out there name ONE player that became a better hitter under his watch? Can’t claim Chipper or McCann, their dads are their coaches. He is the worst hitting coach in baseball

Let's Go Bravos!

February 18th, 2010
8:35 am

I swear that if Greg Norton was on the team this year, I would have not watched a single game. He was the worst player the Braves have had on their bench since the 80s. And yes that includes Corky Miller, Rafy Belliard, and some others!

Dr. R.

February 18th, 2010
8:36 am

And I just remembered why I need to stay away from Braves blogs when I read the comments on how Cox destroyed the team last season. Only a non-baseball person would say that. Other than relying too heavily on Greg Norton, which did NOT have that much impact, I don’t think Bobby did anything but keep his club in contention despite a limited roster. Come next year, the same football fans who blast Bobby now will be blasting whoever takes his place. Baseball is not a game of perfection but continued excellence over a period of time, and that’s what Bobby has given Atlanta. But those of you raised on children’s football are convinced that a game should never be lost and if so, it’s the fault of management. The one guy who says “when does college football start” says it all. Most of you aren’t real baseball people, you don’t understand the game, and your comments are those of casual fans who are just marking time until your beloved Bulldogs/Jackets/Vols/Tide get going again. So I’ll let you guys have the blog and I’ll find a place to congregate with real fans of the greatest American game.

F-105 Thunderchief

February 18th, 2010
8:37 am

When Liberty Media realizes their tax benefit from the purchase and then looks to sell, who would be the potential buyers? Was Mark Cuban blackballed by MLB? Does Blank have the money anymore?

Robert

February 18th, 2010
8:43 am

“Other than relying too heavily on Greg Norton, which did NOT have that much impact”

You saw no impact because Norton never produced. In reality that’s negative impact. Sending an .050 hitter up as your first choice pinch hitter in those last gasp chances probably alone cost us 6 games last year

Mark Biles

February 18th, 2010
8:46 am

I don’t any of the moves were “great” (with the exception of dumping Greg Norton). In fact, most of them were “so-so” moves, but this is the team we’ve got and we’ve got to get behind them. What people seem to forget is that at least some of the players we dumped will have poor seasons for other clubs. I can’t see Soriano having a good year two years in a row (has he ever?) Vasquez had a career year in 2009. Will he duplicate that in 2010? I doubt it. Gonzalez and LaRoche are the ones I regret getting away, but who knows? One or both of them could have bad years in 2010, also.

Thing is, we need to get behind this team and see what they can do.
Go Braves!

Hef

February 18th, 2010
8:46 am

As per offseason moves one thing is clear,Geritol sales just quadrupled in metro Atlanta.Was there an over 50 age requirement in all of Wrenn’s signings/trades?

nola braves fan

February 18th, 2010
8:47 am

any true fan of Mark’s work needs to vote the greg norton “non re-signing” the greatest epic fail of all time. i mean, what will MB write about now? I had more laughs at the Bradley laments after our boy Greg swung and a miss thrice over…

the real OLD GOLD

February 18th, 2010
8:55 am

Not re-signing Greg Norton, even two years later anyone with any baseball knowledge whatsoever would have done…. more than makes up for every foolish decision made by this regime to date.. Norton was the WORST batter in the majors. I truly believe that I, myself, could have batted a point or two above Norton without taking batting practice or warming up not having played baseball since 8th grade.

Hef

February 18th, 2010
8:58 am

Mark in two years you’ll be eligble to be put into the starting rotation along with Knucksie,Glavine,Smoltz,& Bedrock out of the pen. Maybe Bobby will be talked into stayin for another 20 years to manage these young /oid timers. Seriously though,could Wrenn not found anyone under 40 to sign?

Mad Mike

February 18th, 2010
9:00 am

frank wren is running this team in a sort of modified florida marlins way of running a team – grow the farm, trade the proven talent at its perceived most valuable point for as much of a return as we can get, and the modification: keep a handful of the homegrown fan fave superstars. give wren time – this isn’t college football. it’s gonna take longer than three seasons to enjoy the fruits of his labors. it may not happen this season, but we will be a force in the postseason again soon. then again, maybe it will happen this season. i like the majority of wren’s moves – painful as they may be at times. i mean, we’re not the yankees (nor do i want to be), and we won’t be spending a half billion dollars on our players’ salaries in any given season. so give the man time. it’s gonna happen. and stop falling in love with every free agent acquisition who exceeds expectations. those are the guys we don’t get to keep any more, and it’s better if you just enjoy the time we spend together and not get too attached. go braves.

Navigator

February 18th, 2010
9:08 am

I’m sorry, letting a very good pitcher get away to keep a has been and bringing in low and middle players are not to be applauded. Mark my words, that Vasquez situation will come back to bite them, especially since the guy they paid to stay can’t even stay of the injured list. Also that move had Bobby Cox written all over it.

Bill

February 18th, 2010
9:11 am

IF team…If a frog had wings he wouldn’t bump his A@@ everytime he hops. You can bet the “ifs” turn into real problems before the seasons over.

Another if…If TP takes Bobby’s place as mgr… He!! yes fans will be on him. No to TP!

Don

February 18th, 2010
9:12 am

Why no ranking on the decision to keep Bobby Cox???

PMC

February 18th, 2010
9:15 am

How can I rate something that hasn’t happened yet? Am I thrilled? No. They aren’t the team to beat in the NL East. Are they set up well for the future? Yeah I think they are for the most part. Love the starters, so so on the relievers… very very skeptical about the lineup and thier ability to produce runs in bunches. Pretty much the same as the last several years.

Don

February 18th, 2010
9:15 am

The ranking of Norton is obviously correct. But COMPARED TO BOBBY COX, Greg Norton is GREAT, OUTSTANDING, A MODEL OF PERFORMANCE.

Poorbrave

February 18th, 2010
9:16 am

Don, you hadn’t heard, Bobby is the best mgr someone ( don’t call names) has ever seen.

Kenny J

February 18th, 2010
9:18 am

Not sure what a lot of you guys expect from Wren under the payroll restrictions he’s got. Any blogger who has ever been top executive of a large company trying to compete against the jumbos, speak up. You know that when the boss (Board) approves so much budget and no more, then you find a way to put your very best product out there for that price. The 2010 MLB payrolls aren’t out, but here’s 2009 and this year will parallel them: NY Mets – 135 million; Phillies – 113.0 Milliion; Braves – 96.7 million. If you don’t think Wren would put those extra bats on the roster for the additional 38 million the Mets dished out, or the 16 million more that the Phillies paid, think again. BTW, the Astros, Dodgers and Cubs all went higher than Wren was allowed to. Cubbies: 135MM. Houston spent 103.9 million. Frank coulda done something powerful with that extra 6.2, but he doesn’t have it.

He’s kept the highly rated prospects through all this (Shurholz gave the other 5 to Texas for a rent-a-Texiera fantasy). 5 of ESPNs top 100 prospects are Bravos, with no team in baseball having more. He’s got a very solid club with deep pitching, a top notch bench (baseball fans know this is no small matter). What’s missing is a bopper or two. That relies on luck, which I for one wish them well, not rail against like so many seem to think is helpful. The luck starts with Chipper, who’s a payroll consumer and 38, brittle and waning. The luck would be in a last great season, which every one of us is rooting for. The other is Glaus, And then comes luck in general. Pitching injuries, or a key player like McCann, Escobar, McLouth.Let’s keep our fingers crossed there. Unspoken is the upside of Shaefer, who we’ve forgotten could be so-o-o legit. If that happens, Wren’s got a lot of trade material to grab a right handed power hitter in mid-season if it looks like they’re on a pace to win 89 games and the move would inch that up to 93 and make for a strong post-season contender.
Nobody’s every move is perfect. But in a market that didn’t want Lowe, nor was willing to pay a slugger for Vazquez, what he’s done inch by inch gets a high grade, especially keeping his prospects so the team can grow the way the Red Sox and Phillies did. I’m a fan. And no, they’re not as strong as the teams with an additional 10 or 20 or 30 million to spend. But they’ll play really good baseball, and maybe the luck and a mid season trade will give us something extra to cheer about.

Lane Myers

February 18th, 2010
9:18 am

Bring back Chief Noc-A-Homa!

Poorbrave

February 18th, 2010
9:19 am

Bobby always has a Norton on the team. Who will it be this year?

PMC

February 18th, 2010
9:19 am

I feel MUCH better about the pinch hitting situation this year. MUCH MUCH better.

ITP Brave

February 18th, 2010
9:21 am

Any chance we can go ahead and comment on the Braves not calling up Heyward until June? I say Epic Fail, much like Hanson last season.

Poorbrave

February 18th, 2010
9:22 am

The Chief’s to old to dance and spit fire…maybe his son. Chief Noc-A- Single!

Asheville Dawg

February 18th, 2010
9:28 am

Now this is an ifing team if I ever saw one. Ifing the starting pitchers don’t get hurt we will be great. Ifing the old folks in the bullpen stay upright ,we’ll be okay.Ifing Chipper stays heathy, we’ll be okay Ifing the first base combo works, we’ll be okay. Ifing a rookie who never played above Class AA works out in the outfield we’ll be okay. Whole lot ifings, we are not dealing from strength are we. Maybe everything will come to out okay but I doubt it.

Matt

February 18th, 2010
9:29 am

On a scale of 1 (worst) to 10 (best) Frank Wren gets a -1,000,000,000. This team is NOT better than they were last year, especially on the offensive side. Pitching will have to carry this team because Larry Jones is gonna get injured again, the outfield stinks and asking Glaus to provide punch is just deluded.

Matt

February 18th, 2010
9:31 am

Kenny J- I believe that the small market Twins will have an equal or larger payroll than the Bravos this year. If they can up the payroll, new stadium or not, the Bravos should be able to do so as well. Attendance depends on winning and if you don’t spend to win, the fans are not going to come.

Bigstack O' Pancakes. It is an Irish name.

February 18th, 2010
9:32 am

Can we give Frank Wren a grade lower than an F-. I give this off season a Q.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
9:32 am

I am in the column of guys who believe this team has great potenetial, and that Wren made the best moves available to him with the conditions that exhisted. He has a firm budget, and any trades have to be worked with other teams who are trying to improve thier own teams, not the Braves.
The doom and gloom guys, including MB can only see a world where every thing that can go wrong will, and that everyone traded away will be an allstar. Bobby and Wren haters are coming out of the woodwork, based on the perception by some that every move and decision is wrong, and that because the Braves had Ted Turner money in the past, that they still do, or should, and Wren could have made moves with the Budget be damned.
Who will be right? Time will tell. EVERY move has the potential to work or fail. A lot will depend on injuries and players performances – AS IT IS WITH EVERY TEAM. Some teams can afford a greater margin of error, but some can’t. The Mets couldn’t overcome thier problems with a big budget. I DO believe we are in a position to succeed if things go well. Some teams (Pirates, K City, San Diego, etc., etc.) don’t have that hope.
Let’s play ball and see what happens. GO BRAVES!

collegeballfan

February 18th, 2010
9:33 am

One cannot isolate the moves by Wren as just baseball moves. Included in the equation is the mandate from the owner re salary levels. Cash flow determines a lot of business decisions. If you do not believe that, try running a business for a few years. So Wren has to work with that burden.

Having said that, I would give Wren a solid B. And if Vizcaino is as good as advertised, and I believe he is, then the Vazquez trade was a solid A move.

But overall a solid B.

Tim

February 18th, 2010
9:44 am

All of the moves are overshadowed by trading Vazquez for nothing + the latest over-rated Yankees prospect. If Jurrjens goes down with a shoulder or arm injury the Braves season is over before it even begins.

pittman

February 18th, 2010
9:44 am

compared to where the braves were last spring training you cant help but feel better about this team
Heyward>Francouer Mcclouth>schafer hudson and hanson> jo jo reyes and vazquez and glaus > kotchman with all of these upgrades this team should win 90-93 games which gets us the wild card

Anthony

February 18th, 2010
9:53 am

All the moves add up to a third place finish in the NL East. So, they are all great if that’s what the management is shooting for. Time for Bobby and Chippee to go bye-bye, clean house, take down the 1 for 15 banners and start with a new goal, build a team to win the World Series. Till then, it’s another summer (and fall) with the Braves and UGA playing for third place in the East division.

bvillebaron

February 18th, 2010
9:55 am

Navigator:

I assume that “has been” you were referring to is Tim Hudson. Do yourself a favor, do a little research and check out his career stats vs. Javy “Career Year” Vazquez and get back to me. Did you know that Hudson is a whopping ONE YEAR older than Vazquez?

As for Bradley, I have an idea, why don’t we like at least wait until the season starts or, better yet, the Allstar break, before we run these kind of polls. Nah, that would mean that what actually happens (i.e. facts) might get in the way of your preconceived opinions.

Don

February 18th, 2010
9:56 am

The Ranking on “KEEPING BOOBY COX”:
A Great Move
A So So Move
A Lousy Move
X The Worst Possible Move The Braves Could Have Made.

Don

February 18th, 2010
9:59 am

Robert, let’s see your ranking of “Keeping Bobby Cox”.
Let’s see some other posters rankings of “Keeping Bobby Cox”.

Rich Mckay

February 18th, 2010
10:01 am

Stop worrying about injuries to the rotation, plenty of depth there. Worry about injuries to position players. This lineup is contingent on everyone staying healthy and performing up to high expectations.

What happens when a bat goes down? What happens if Chipper hits like the second half last year or only plays 100 games? Same thing for Glaus? Or if Yunel, McCann, or Prado go down? Or Heyward isn’t quite ready?

This team could be really good, but its one or two injuries away from having no chance

Kenny J

February 18th, 2010
10:03 am

Matt, I agree with you on the Twins. Marlins, Rockies and Rays too. Great job by those franchises with limited budgets. It’s just that I’m not down on the Braves and what they’ve done as so many seem to be.

Dude

February 18th, 2010
10:04 am

Trading Vazquez was bad. Just because the pitching staff was relatively healthy last season, what made them think it would be healthy this season? Case in point.. JJ Hudson coming off of injury? They should have kept all the starters, and put KK in bullpen if there were no injuries, but guess what pitchers haven’t even reported and we already have an injury.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
10:08 am

What was the alternative to the Vazquez trade? We got a versitile solid outfielder, 2 good (one maybe great) prospectes, and freed up $$$. I prefer Hudson for 3 years at a reasonable rate to Vazquez, who either:
1- reverts back to his lifetime average performance after a career year in 2009 (it’s better to sell high)
2- Has a great year and then cost too much to resign. Then we get nothing in return for the future after 2010.

What were the alternatives? We couldn’t trade Lowe (or KK). We couldn’t get a great run producer you guys wanted because no one was going to trade that for a one year rental for a guy who had the greatest season of his life, and will likely not equal it this year. We couldn’t afford to carry 6 starters (really 7, as Medlin could easily be a #4/5 guy), and if we could, it would be at the expense of a shorter/weaker bench. I know you guys know better than Wren what tallent was available/offered for JV, but what would you have done? Don’t say “made a better trade”, because I don’t believe a better trade was available. If you say “don’t made the trade at all”, what would you do about puting a team together with the payroll restrictions. I would like to hear real, rational, REALISTIC arguments against the moves that were made, not what you wish could happen in a perfect Braves world.

AndyC

February 18th, 2010
10:09 am

Mark

Your question about Soriano is not worded properly. The trade of Soriano had to be made after they had already signed Wagner and that’s how I answered it. The better question would have been asking about the decision not to offer arbitration to Soriano.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
10:14 am

Dude – How do you pay for keeping all the pitchers, and puting KK in bullpen? He would be the highest paid middle reliever in th history of baseball on a team that has to count every penny. Let’s at least try to be realistic. As I’ve said before, Ted Turner has left the building, but some of you haven’t noticed yet.

Don

February 18th, 2010
10:15 am

Some questions about things THAT WE KNOW ARE GOING TO HAPPEN this year, AS ALWAYS:
(1) What position player (who isn’t producting) will Bobby Cox play on and on and on when he has a far better option on the bench?
(2) What relief pitcher who can’t get anyone out will Bobby Cox keep on using game after game after game?
(3) Which relief pitcher or pitchers will Bobby Cox overuse and overuse to the point that they are not effective by the last 1/3 of the season?
(4) How many times (time after time after time after time) will Bobby Cox fail to adjust his batting order based on who is hot and who is cold?
(5) How many times (time after time after time after time) will Bobby Cox fail to adjust his batting order based on certain hitters being great or terrible agaisnt certain opposing pitchers that we face?
(6) How many times will Bobby Cox fail to move a star player out of his favorite spot in the batting order when he is in a prolonged terrible slump?
(7) Will Bobby Cox again fail to emphasize/teach/demand the most important thing in generating offense – that his hitters be selective, work the count, make the opposing pitcher thow some pitches – in a single game out of the 162 game sechedule?
(8) Will Bobby Cox again just basically make out the lineup and sit ot the bench and be a cheerleader – and do little or nothing relating to managing and run production?

jeffrey d

February 18th, 2010
10:17 am

I see I’m in the big minority of the Vazquez trade. I bet that’ll change by October

McCann Fan

February 18th, 2010
10:19 am

We won’t know about the Javy Vasquez move until we see how he performs this year and how the guys we got for him perform down the line. Really, it may turn out to be a great move.

I really wanted us to re-sign LaRoche, but if we get 2008 Troy Glaus for $2million we made the deal of the year (.270, 27, 99).

I think the bullpen moves will wind up being good ones, simply for the $$$ we would have had to give to two guys who are very good, but unpredictable.

Greg Norton should have been cut halfway through 2009, so not signing him back was a given. That guy was horrid last year and Bobby kept putting him in there!

extremus

February 18th, 2010
10:19 am

I’m very glad to hear Jurrjens’ shoulder situation wasn’t serious; otherwise we’d never hear the end of how bad the Vazquez trade was for the Braves (especially in the short-term). Most prognosticators appear to have the Braves finishing above .500 but basically competing for a wild card, not a divisional title. The Braves have basically made moves designed to either hold their current competitiveness or, I’m sure Frank Wren is hoping, to exceed everyone’s wildest expectations as they did in 1991. I think it was Heyman at SI.com who wrote the statement (and I’m paraphrasing) “wouldn’t it be justice if in Bobby Cox’s final year, the Braves won the WOrld Series when they were clearly NOT the best team on the field?

Hey, I could live with that.

jeffrey d

February 18th, 2010
10:20 am

That’s what happened when we traded for Vazquez.

“WHAT? We gave up a top catching prospect for a pitcher like Vazquez??!?”

Wren definitely bought low and sold high on this one

DirtyDawg

February 18th, 2010
10:20 am

The disappointing thing to me is that the Braves don’t have the confidence of Liberty Media to use their money wisely – which includes having to ‘eat’ some of Lowes’ money (so they could trade him, or even just pay him and keep him) in order to increase your odds of making it to the post season and, perhaps, winning it all. Vasquez was the ‘man’, and who knows who’ll hold up.

As for Kelly Johnson, he very well may ‘outhit’ Cabrera, but he won’t be playing second base while he’s doing it. Somehow we never would admit that the kid, if he was going to contribute day-in-and-day-out, had to be moved back to the outfield. That’s where he’ll be playing most of his games for the rest of whatever his career is to be.

Biff Pocaroba

February 18th, 2010
10:21 am

Bobby told me that “Norton was the glue that held the sandwich together”. We’ll never know all the times he intentionally struck out just to make the other players feel better about themselves.

DirtyDawg

February 18th, 2010
10:22 am

Oh I forgot….if you can play third base, you can play first. It’s hands and reactions. The toughest thing for a right-hander is the footwork in making the throw to second on DPs, and all that takes is practice which overcomes ‘muscle-memory’.

Poorbrave

February 18th, 2010
10:35 am

Mark you’re right no great moves…except Norton.

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
10:50 am

Where’s the love for the Greg Norton? This was clearly an Epic Fail. Without Norton, upon who or what will AJC columnists and flummoxed fans pour our their wrath for Bobby Cox’s stubborn refusal to give up on players who just can’t get the job done? Maybe we need a new poll: Who will be this year’s Greg Norton? Any candidates?

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
10:51 am

My grammar escapes me, should read, “upon whom.”

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
10:56 am

Frank Wren overspent last offseason for starting pitching and we are paying for it now. We got a pitcher in return who MAY be able to help us in 2013 and we got the reincarnation of Ryan Church in the deal. Boy, that Frank Wren drives a hard bargain.

Chumlee

February 18th, 2010
10:58 am

How many times are we going to hear that the Vaz trade could be the equivalent of the Doyle Alexander-Smoltz trade? Sounds like UGA fans saying Joe Cox could be the next Tee Martin.

Coach (2011 or Bust)

February 18th, 2010
11:06 am

I have to disagree with the majority of the vote, Troy Glaus if healthy will turn out to be one hell of a great move on the part of Frank Wren.

ProScout

February 18th, 2010
11:14 am

Wake up people, nobody wanted to pick up Lowe’s contract, especially at his age. It was highly unlikely the Braves could afford to resign Vasquez after this year anyway. Trading him made the most sense.

Those of you talking about his young pitching staff need to remember that Jurjjens is a Boras client and his contract is up in 2 years. Chipper is WAY past being productive. The Braves don’t need Chipper to hit .285/15/50, those guys are a dime a dozen. If he’s not hitting .320/25/85 (those power numbers are a minimum he needs to hit) he’s not helping the Braves win.

There is also absolutley no team speed on this team. Take a look at the SB numbers for the playoff teams this past year and then take a look at the Braves numbers.

You have to have pitching/hitting (power)/speed. The Braves have 1 of these and after the starter goes out there are HUGE question marks.\

This is all good for my employer. Keep it up.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
11:20 am

In response to my 10:08 and 10:14 posts, no one has stated what we SHOULD have done as an alternative to trading JV (except for imposible trades or a bigger payroll, which was not an option). Come on, you FW haters, give me a RATIONAL response (not a Don-like diatrab against BC or FW in general). I want to hear specifics. If you have none, then SHUT UP. If you DO have realistic alternatives and solutions, I want to hear them (seriously).

Bobby Hill

February 18th, 2010
11:25 am

I think Wren actually got a pretty good return for Vazquez. We’ve got to remember that Vazquez has only one year left on his contract. My problem with the trade is that it made the team weaker for this coming season, and supposedly the Braves are in a win now mode. (Wren’s moves this off season do not support the assert that the team is trying to win now.)

Maybe Wren had to cut payroll. Maybe he got the best he could possibly get for Vazquez. Maybe Wren made the most of a bad situation. My point is that the situation was entirely his own doing. There was no need to acquire three starting pitchers on multi-year deals a year ago. With Hanson ready, a Hudson re-signing never really in doubt, it was obvious from the time camp broke that somebody was going to have to go before 2010. Wren put himself in a spot where he had to make a trade, and every other GM in the league knew it.

Wren would have been better off signing Randy Wolfe or Jon Garland to a one year deal, than signing Lowe. For that matter he could have signed both Garland and Wolfe for 2009 for what he paid Lowe in the same time period.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
11:31 am

Some of the same guys who say Wren signed too many pitchers in 2009 are now saying we shouldn’t get rid of any of them this year. HUH?

sportsmandh

February 18th, 2010
11:35 am

I think the team is very solid. I think they have a real chance to catch lightning in a bottle and have a very good season. I don’t think Wren has made any really bad moves. I think the Braves are going to suprise a lot of their gloom and doom fans this year. They are better put together than at the start of last season, have a very good combination of vets and young talent, and they have great depth.

Don

February 18th, 2010
11:37 am

RALEIGHBRAVEFAN, if you want specifics about Bobby Cox, please refer to my post at 10:15 (above) — and these things are just the tip of the iceburg and do not even get into his game by game management tactics and lack thereof.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
11:41 am

Bobby Hill et al – No one could predict that JV would have a career best year in 2009. No one knew for sure when Hanson would be ready or how good he would be. No one knew how Hudson would recover from surgery.
All of the above happened for the good, and we did end up with an extra pitcher for 2010. (BTY, KK finished strong, and I believe he will be solid in 2010).

Did he pay too much for Lowe? The jury is still out. He had a down year in 2009 (still won 15). I expect him to bounce back. However, he was best available at the time, and Wren had to shore up the pitching staff. The same guys who are complaining now were clammering for Wren to do something before the 2009 season. If you look at what pitchers are making, Lowe is not grossly overpaid, especially if he returns to career normal performance. Look at the Mets and Oliver Perez. Now THAT’S an example of overpaying.

bvillebaron

February 18th, 2010
11:41 am

Bobby Hill:

I don’t agree that the moves Wren made this offseason won’t help the team win now. Although I would love to see the Braves win the NL East, I think they can only realistically hope to get the wild card this year due to the strenth of the Phillies. The Braves’ chance to get the wild card is based upon the strong starting rotation and bullpen.

I for one think that Hudson will have a strong comeback season and prove why he has been a better pitcher throughout his career than Vazquez. I also think the bullpen is better with Wagner and Saito. Wagner is the first top shelf closer this team has had since John Smoltz and Saito is not that far removed from being a very good closer for the Dodgers. I realize that Wagner is 38 and Saito 40, but both have been better career wise than Gonzo and Soriano.

While you always have to be concerned about how Wagner will bounce back from TJ, the fact is he pitched great last September and many pitchers are stronger after TJ surgery than before. Besides, Gonzo has also already had TJ surgery and Soriano has missed substantial time with the Braves due to his own arm problems and thus can both be considered injury “risks” as much as Wagner and Saito.

I think that adding an expensive player like Bay on a long-term deal would not appreciably help the team’s chances to win the wild card this year (particularly if Heyward is the real deal) and would only hamstring the team financially (like it or not Wren has budget constraints the Yankees, Red Sox and even the Phillies don’t) when it would be appropriate to add key players to the Braves’ young core of Hanson, Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Vizcaino, Teheran, McCann, Escobar, McLouth, Heyward, Freeman, etc.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
11:46 am

Don – I was actually looking for specifics about moves WREN has made. We all know how you feel about Cox. Many disagree, and I have given specific examples in the past stating the opposing view. He will be gone after this year, either way.

Skeezix

February 18th, 2010
11:52 am

The worst thing that happened this offseason? —the Braves not replacing an incompetent GM.

Town Character Art Leo

February 18th, 2010
11:56 am

We need to track down the 137 people who characterized not resigning Norton as “epic fail” and beat them with a sock full of manure.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
11:59 am

Skeezix – Given the payroll restraints (not to mention the knowledge of specific players, what trades were available, what the actual costs were, etc. which Wren and the Braves organization had access to, and you don’t), what specific moves make Wren incompetent, and what different moves would you have made?

WinSomething

February 18th, 2010
12:01 pm

“I think Wagner will have the best closer year of any Brave that I can remember….yea, not saying much I know!” – Tom

2002-2004? Smoltz? 144 saves, 2.47 ERA, 1.003 WHIP over those 3 seasons.

2004 – 64 IP, 8 ER. 0.870 WHIP

Im not sure we can ask Wags to top any of those seasons at his age.

Otto

February 18th, 2010
12:11 pm

Bobby Hill appears more right that wrong folks. The only way he isn’t re: Lowe if is Lowe bounces back to almost career year form. Which is doubtful.

Short of that no one can explain away why Wren dropped $60mm over 4yrs on a guy who was in his mid 30s apart from overreacting to losing out on AJ Burnett. This was a crime of passion LOL not cool headed decisiveness.

Wren’s biggest FA signing as an ATL GM was not even close to being a prudent move – at the time or after the 2009 season. For a team with significant payroll constraints you cannot afford even on stinker like this one.

So far it is a bust signing and the whole team is paying for it.

That coupled with Wren giving 13-14mm/yr to Chipper b/c of a 1 batting title yr (which Tex assisted with by providing Chipper with protection for 1/2+ the year) was another questionable move.

Like Lowe unless Chipper has a near career year bounce back that extension will be pretty painful on this team and greatly constrain it.

That is 19mm/year tied up in two guys who are the wrong side of 35 with three years left on each of their deals.

Wren has done some good things (JJ & Gorkys, Ross) but when he swings and misses its pretty terrible and the effects are long lasting.

Again no one is perfect and clearly 2010 is a budget cut year so Wren is making lemonade out of lemons but his chess game skills (looking 10 moves ahead) need some work especially when his playing with house money and very little of it to boot.

2010 IMHO will make or break his tenure as the GM. This team face plants with oft injured guys continuing on their DL ways and Lowe fails to recover 2010 will be ugly and Wren will be on the hot seat.

All eyes are on Bobby riding off into the sunset but Wren should not be too comfortable. So far under his watch the team is doing no better than the JS collapse years that proceeded it.

If this team gets sold by Liberty in 2011 (when the can put it on the market) Wren and his crew will need a better resume to keep their jobs versus what has been done thus far.

But I digress. For today we can be optimistic about this team and hope injuries stay at a min b/c ST is the time of hope for all fans.

jmarable

February 18th, 2010
12:14 pm

I’ve been a braves fan 4 many moons,and i have never seen the organization pick up so many has beens.its a question of r we making moves to win or save money.We know the answer.we picked up nothing that can gives us a chance to battle the phillies.a lot of what if’s and keeping your fingers crossed.Its a long yr, the old guys r not gonna hold up 4 a 162 games.WAG GLAUSE CHIPPER THE OVER THE HILL CREW WILL FALL RATHER THAN STAND.Seasons to long,we r in trouble.rate the moves 1 to 10?= 1 U KNOW IT MARK, Come on man.outfield sucks.

Yurtle_the_turtle

February 18th, 2010
12:16 pm

The problem with the Braves’ moves this winter were that we got cheaper and more vulnerable. The moves are not High Risk/High Reward, they are High Risk/Medium Reward. Most everyone they have signed is coming off an injury or several injuries. Can Wagner last a full season? not sure. Can Glaus give you more than 120 games? Not sure. Even when healthy, Glaus did not give you a great presence on defense. His BA wan’t that high either. The Vasquez trade was underwelhming considering the number of teams looking for front-line pitchers. So there. That is Frank Wren’s winter in a nutshell.

Yurtle_the_turtle

February 18th, 2010
12:20 pm

Mark B…have you ever done a piece on Liberty Management? who the hell are these people and why do they own the Braves? I though once we got rid of corporate ownership, we were going to be free to spend again. (At least to the levels that large cities can afford and not a small market team)

Yurtle_the_turtle

February 18th, 2010
12:31 pm

I think ralieghbraves fan must be a relative of Wren. He thinks Wren is always right, can’t nobody can make a subjective remark of several poor moves. JV trade (front line pitcher for Melky Cabrera (bench player) isn’t a good move unless you’re dumping payroll. I guess then Wren is still a great GM because he does want the managment tells him what to do. And I won’t go into the poor handling of Smotz/Glavine from last year either.

Shane

February 18th, 2010
12:35 pm

Hey Greg Norton had a decent OBP.!!!

He could take a walk now and then.

Dr. R

February 18th, 2010
12:52 pm

Couple of observations. First, those still obsessed with Norton need to understand that as terrible as he was, a guy getting 4-5 at-bats a week is NOT going to be the difference between winning and losing, especially since the Braves weren’t all that close to making the playoffs. Had they lost out by a game or two, maybe. Secondly, Vazquez clearly wasn’t traded for baseball reasons, though he did have a career year, and he did choke in a couple of big games at the end (fitting his career path to date). That deal was an economic one; they couldn’t afford him, and Lowe and the other guys under contract. They tried to deal Lowe but had no takers, and likely couldn’t unload KK for the same reason. Thirdly, they didn’t come away empty-handed from that trade; Cabrera is no big deal but they did get two good young arms. And finally, anyone in Atlanta who still is a Kelly Johnson fan obviously is a girl who likes him because of reasons other than his baseball ability, which was negligible. Martin Prado’s big toe is a better second baseman.

Chumlee

February 18th, 2010
12:53 pm

Seriously???Tim Tucker does a blog on Mark Richt turning 50?

Cracker Jacket

February 18th, 2010
12:54 pm

Stupid moves!

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
12:55 pm

I would rather have traded for Vizcaino and Dunn instead of having to eat Melky’s contract.

braves70

February 18th, 2010
12:59 pm

If Frank Wren’s hands have been tied (by the owners or whoever), great! Someone tie up his feet and tape his mouth and throw his sorry hide over the ship’s side so that we can sail toward success. His reign will go down as one of the great failures in Baseball history.

Ramblin Wrecker

February 18th, 2010
1:02 pm

How can anyone say that letting Greg Norton hit the bricks was an “Epic Fail”? Very rarely are their 100% certainties in life, heck even Babe Ruth didn’t get 100% in HOF voting. But not resigning a .145 hitter who had 0 HR’s and 7 RBI’s last season has to be a 100% certainty, right?

Ramblin Wrecker

February 18th, 2010
1:03 pm

In fact, that’s why I rated the Eric Hinske signing as a great move. Because it meant the end of Norton and replaced him with a guy who has hit 20 HR’s in a season as recently as 2008 and has played in the World Series three straight years.

Craig

February 18th, 2010
1:09 pm

My Projection for Braves 2010 season..
1.Diaz AVG. 290 RBI’s 60 HR 20 SB 20
2.Prado AVG.300 RBI’s 64 HR 15 SB 8
3.Jones AVG.270 RBI’s 75 HR 20 SB 3 Final season
4.McCann AVG.300 RBI’s 100 HR 27 SB 1 2nd place to Pujols for NL MVP
5.Glaus AVG.270 RBI’s 87 HR 26 SB 4 Takes Chipper’s Place at third in 2011
6.Mclouth AVG 276 RBI’s 78 HR 23 SB 24
7.Escobar AVG.290 RBI’s 90 HR 15 SB 12
8.Heyward AVG.315 RBI’s75 HR 14 SB 16 NL ROY and Golden Glove
9.Pitcher

Pitching
1.Hudson 17-8 ERA.3.67
2.Lowe 16-8 ERA 4.00
3.Jurrgens 19-5 ERA 2.76 NL CY
4. Hanson 18-7 ERA 2.89 3rd for NL CY
5.Smoltz 13-8 ERA 3.98 Final Season

Braves 95-67 Win Wild Card and NL Champs
Play Yankees for World Series and Win 4-3
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!

gabugman

February 18th, 2010
1:18 pm

Enter your comments here

gabugman

February 18th, 2010
1:19 pm

Dang enter key!

Robert,

He was subjected to TP and Booby.

Craig

February 18th, 2010
1:23 pm

My Projection for Braves 2010 season..
1.Diaz AVG. 290 RBI’s 60 HR 20 SB 20
2.Prado AVG.300 RBI’s 64 HR 15 SB 8
3.Jones AVG.270 RBI’s 75 HR 20 SB 3 Final season
4.McCann AVG.300 RBI’s 100 HR 27 SB 1 2nd place to Pujols for NL MVP
5.Glaus AVG.270 RBI’s 87 HR 26 SB 4 Takes Chipper’s Place at third in 2011
6.Mclouth AVG 276 RBI’s 78 HR 23 SB 24
7.Escobar AVG.290 RBI’s 90 HR 15 SB 12
8.Heyward AVG.315 RBI’s75 HR 14 SB 16 NL ROY and Golden Glove
9.Pitcher

Pitching
1.Hudson 17-8 ERA.3.67
2.Lowe 16-8 ERA 4.00
3.Jurrgens 19-5 ERA 2.76 NL CY
4. Hanson 18-7 ERA 2.89 3rd for NL CY
5.Smoltz 13-8 ERA 3.98 Final Season

Braves 95-67 Win Wild Card and NL Champs
Play Yankees for World Series and Win 4-3
GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!

Mark Biles

February 18th, 2010
1:25 pm

A worse hitter than Greg Norton? Corky Miller!!!! I think every time he came to bad I just recorded an out on my scorecard and I hardly ever had to change it.

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
1:29 pm

Craig is quite the optimistic one.

Ramblin Wrecker

February 18th, 2010
1:31 pm

My favorite move is the one that’s yet to be made…Jason Heyward promoted to play RF. Here is an interesting stat comparison:

Player A
AVG OBP SLG OPS G AB R H
0.323 0.403 0.555 0.958 99 362 69 117

2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS
25 4 17 63 51 51 10 1

Player B
AVG OBP SLG OPS G AB R H
0.314 0.378 0.543 0.921 133 490 74 154

2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS
41 7 19 96 46 47 4 5

Who is who?

A=Jason Heyward
B=Albert Pujols

Hmmmm

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
1:35 pm

Thank you, Mr. Biles. Corky Miller was bad – but you can’t compare a back-up catcher to Greg Norton’s function in 2009 – basically, an everyday pinch-hitter. Corky’s season for games in ATL was only 31 in 2008, but Mr. Norton appeared in 95 games last year — that almost 60% of the season.

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
1:40 pm

Norton had 16 more at bats than Corky did the year before. Saying he appeared in 95 games as opposed to Corky’s 31 is skewed.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
1:52 pm

Yurtle – I never said everything Wren has done has worked. It never will when your decisions are dependent upon the health and performance of another human being.
My point that you and others who criticize/hate Wren have missed is that you have only talked about how bad he has done, but have offered NO specific realistic alternatives to the choices he has made. I would love to hear that discussion, but so far I have only heard silence (for weeks/months) about what plausable moves available to the Braves GM that would have been better. BTW, you also have the 20/20 view of hindsight.
I will also point out ONCE AGAIN that the trade was not JV for Melky. It was JV for 3 players and a requisite salary dump, and Wren said many times that he didn’t want to trade JV. In fact, he had little other choice.

Rich Clary

February 18th, 2010
1:53 pm

Spring is a time for positive thinking,which you will not find here. So, I must be the only one who is looking forward to the 2010 season in Atlanta. After last season, everybody and his brother were screaming for more offense. We now have more offense and just one less pitcher. Vasquez,a strike-throwing machine,was good for a proven outfielder who can hit and play any field. Heyward is soon to be a star. We still have the best potential rotation in the game. Diaz will hit .300 and hustle. Glaus may do well. It’s Bobby’s last year and Chipper may be in the twilight, but what a player. Come on people, let’s load the wagon.

JabboRockefeller

February 18th, 2010
1:55 pm

The folks who said Norton shoulda been retained need to find their Lithium immediately! You’ve missed today’s dose.

Other than that, Wren should be publicly humiliated, before being unceremoniously fired, before being dressed in a feather suit and deposited at county’s edge…

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
2:01 pm

Stone, Skewed a little perhaps. But as a back-up catcher, Corky was going to get 2-3 or more ABs per game; thus the reason for the higher total. And you cannot overlook Greg Norton astounding 20 BBs for 2009, which gives us total plate appearances of 96. Don’t get me wrong – Corky was bad in 2008. But 2008 was a year in which we weren’t competing in the division. I can’t remember a “bad hitter” that had more squandered opportunities, especially in important situations, than Mr. Norton.

Bigstack O' Pancakes. It is an Irish name.

February 18th, 2010
2:02 pm

Craig

February 18th, 2010
1:23 pm

My Projection for Braves 2010 season..
1.Diaz AVG. 290 RBI’s 60 HR 20 SB 20
2.Prado AVG.300 RBI’s 64 HR 15 SB 8
3.Jones AVG.270 RBI’s 75 HR 20 SB 3 Final season
4.McCann AVG.300 RBI’s 100 HR 27 SB 1 2nd place to Pujols for NL MVP
5.Glaus AVG.270 RBI’s 87 HR 26 SB 4 Takes Chipper’s Place at third in 2011
6.Mclouth AVG 276 RBI’s 78 HR 23 SB 24
7.Escobar AVG.290 RBI’s 90 HR 15 SB 12
8.Heyward AVG.315 RBI’s75 HR 14 SB 16 NL ROY and Golden Glove
9.Pitcher

Pitching
1.Hudson 17-8 ERA.3.67
2.Lowe 16-8 ERA 4.00
3.Jurrgens 19-5 ERA 2.76 NL CY
4. Hanson 18-7 ERA 2.89 3rd for NL CY
5.Smoltz 13-8 ERA 3.98 Final Season

Braves 95-67 Win Wild Card and NL Champs
Play Yankees for World Series and Win 4-3

Someone has been playing video game baseball!

Passed on the Kool-Aid

February 18th, 2010
2:08 pm

The Braves should have never allowed Cox to come back for another year. He makes terrible tactical decisions that eradicated at least 5-10 wins last season. On top of that, they expect the fans to believe this lineup, pieced together with tape and bubble gum, is going to last 162 games. One of the guys you need major production from is injury prone in Chipper and the other is trying to overcome a bad shoulder (Glaus). I’ve seen this movie already! The Mets and Phillies will be better and the Marlins are always tough. Hey Mark, let’s say around mid-May, when the Braves are 14-24, you do an article regarding why Wren should have coerced Cox to resign? Ha ha!

fred dre

February 18th, 2010
2:14 pm

the worse move made,was keeping cox another year. it will be the same as last year 75 or 80 wins,and another offseason.same old braves.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
2:16 pm

You guys are the most negative bunch I have ever seen, and not one pitch has been made yet. Why don’t you take a breath and see what happens before you declare a disaster.I guess it is because you are followers of Mark Bradley, the glooom and doom anti-Brave. I can only hope that he does it just to stir things up – and it works!

BTW – UNC fans hung Dean Smith in effigy, and Duke fans wanted couch K fired during thier first few years. Time will tell who’s right.

Mark Biles

February 18th, 2010
2:23 pm

I certainly can’t argue with anyone who says Norton was worse in ‘09 than Corky in ‘08. It just seems that Corky came to bat at some crucial times in games late and never produced. At least Norton could take a BB sometimes when Corky rolled into an inning-ending DP. I don’t want either one of them on my team. I’d rather have anyone up from the Gwinett or Mississippi at bat in the late innings instead.

db

February 18th, 2010
2:34 pm

Please don’t put votes and blogs in the same article. This thing is running as slow as Brian McCann! hehe. But don’t get me wrong, McCann can HIT! Go Braves!!!

JewellNelson

February 18th, 2010
2:38 pm

Getting rid of Vasquez was a HUGE mistake. Vasquez finished fourth in the Cy Young voting last year. The reason why Vasquez got votes for that race was because he resembled a Cy Young pitcher for the majority of the season. Vasquez reminds me a lot of Nolan Ryan. When Ryan was in his heyday, VIRTUALLY ALMOST EVERY TIME HE PITCHED HE FLIRTED WITH A NO-HITTER. That is what Vasquez does quite frequently. His stuff is so good and so difficult to hit, that he is amost guaranteed to pitch many no-hitters throughout his career. WHY ON EARTH THEN WOULD YOU LET GO SUCH A GREAT TALENT. If a team is not serious about winning a title, then you part with such a talent. If you want to win the world series,then you keep talented people who can help you accomplish that. I remember when it was announced that Vasquez was being traded I cancelled my season tickets and vowed to never support the Braves again. Shortly after that, the Braves departed with Adam LaRoche, someone who sparked the team last season and almost helped the Braves make the wildcard. The Braves dont have a front office that is serious about winning. They have a front office who is serious about making money. That is the difference. The Braves will always make money because of the HUGE CABLE CONTRACT. But they won’t win a title with the same people running the team in the front office that has over the past 10 seasons.

pete

February 18th, 2010
2:39 pm

Lowe will have a much much better year than Vazquez will. That was Vazquez best year by fair, not something you duplicate this late in your career

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
2:47 pm

Jewel – Vazquez is Nolan Ryan (7 no-hitters and 19 1-hitters, perenial allstar, HALL OF FAMER) Wow! What color is the sky in your world?

Please see coment by pete 2:39.

When the Braves make the playoffs this year, be sure and stay home and pout some more.

ForrestTucker

February 18th, 2010
2:49 pm

Jewell: I totally agree with you. Getting rid of Adam LaRoche made no sense at all. LaRoche HAS one of the best swings I have ever seen. Once he got in a zone he was raking the ball better than just about anybody else in the league. ADAM LAROCHE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A BETTER HITTER THAN TED WILLIAMS!

Hillbilly Deluxe

February 18th, 2010
2:49 pm

Probably because I hate watching teams practice in any sport.

I always enjoyed watching Ozzie Smith take infield.

tree rollins

February 18th, 2010
2:56 pm

The Braves in recent years are the masters of the marginal (boring) moves. So we cut loose last year’s best batter(LaRoche) and last year’s best pitcher (Vazquez). And we brought back the team’s oldest player (Jones) and added a similar aged one (Wagner). We brought in another rehab player (Glaus this year – we seem to do one of these every year to save money). We gave up on 2 bullpen projects (Soriano and Gonzalez) that cost us a lot at the time. And we gained 2 new utility players (Melke and Hinske). So do I love these moves – HAHAHA – comeonnn! Get serious. Go to the Braves games because you like the outdoors and enjoy the quiet!

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
3:00 pm

Forrest Tucker- That’s only because Ted Williams is deceased. And I agree on the Greg Norton-Corky Miller debate. Is one really better than the other?
I’ve mentioned this before on other blogs: Don’t forget about the moves Wren tried to make that would have devastated this team. Trading Yunel + prospects for Peavy and giving Furcal 10M per year. Wren has been lucky.

tree rollins

February 18th, 2010
3:03 pm

Let me note what I DO like about the Braves. I like remembering how good Chipper used to be. I like thinking about how good McCann should have been. I liked seeing how former castoffs like Vazquez made big-money guys like Lowe look marginal by comparison. And I enjoy watching the regal Bobby Cox and remember how much fun it was to watch the powerful Braves of the ’90’s when Ted Turner would bring in real talent!

WinSomething

February 18th, 2010
3:12 pm

Jewel, Did you just compare Vasquez to Nolan Ryan?

Vasquez had a great year for us, but what in his career has made everyone think that he was going to repeat that again? Hes a good pitcher, but he is not a great pitcher like he was last year for us. He didnt just turn some magical corner and turn into an elite ace. His numbers were very likely to come back towards his career averages. It was bound to happen. All of you claiming that it was a huge mistake to trade him, you are basing his value strictly off of last season. Id think that the Braves front office had lower expectations for him this season than a lot of you do. If you look at Vasquez with more realistic expectations, the trade doesnt seem as terrible. A good trade? We will find out how the non melkys pan out. Bad trade? Its up to the non melkys. If we kept Vasquez and missed the playoffs this year, then he walks, what good would that be? The trade could have been worse, or the trade not happening could have been worse.

Maybe the negativity around here is warranted, but why not let some innings pass before jumping off the cliff?

polskidawg

February 18th, 2010
3:29 pm

Most of the moves made were with the near future in mind. This team was put together with the outside chance of making the playoffs, based entirely on starting pitching. The team that takes the field in April will be far different on June 15th – some by choice, some by injury.

Likely team in April:

LF – Melky
CF – Nate
RF – Diaz
1B – Glaus
2B – Prado
SS – Cabrera
3B – Chipper
C – McCann

Rotation (the Cox way):

Hudson
Lowe
Jar-Jar
Hanson
KK

June 15th lineup:

LF – Nate
CF – Schafer
RF – Heyward
1B – Glaus/Hinske
2B – Prado/Infante
SS – Cabrera
3B – Chip/Hinske/Prado
C – McCann

Rotation (performance way):

Jar-Jar
Hanson
Lowe
Hudson
KK/Medlen

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
3:30 pm

Jewell – I will ask you the same thing I have asked everyone else with no answer – What was the viable alternative (with the budget restraint) to trading Vazquez?

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
3:32 pm

polskidawg – I’m SURE you ment Yunnel at SS. Otherwise, looks about right.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
3:33 pm

meant, not ment

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
3:49 pm

raleigh- Trading Vaz wasn’t the problem. Getting a 4th outfielder and POSSIBLE major league pitcher in return was the problem. I would’ve rather dumped him for prospects only, than to waste salary on Melky Church.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
4:04 pm

Jesse Sone – Point well taken, except we would still need at least 1 outfielder with little $$ to buy one. Also, let’s don’t write off Melky compleatly untill we see what he does. I agree it is important for a mid-payroll team to get as many good prospects as possible. Of course, we don’t know what else was offered for JV, who had 1 year left before FA and likely won’t repeat a career year.

Bobby's Cox

February 18th, 2010
4:17 pm

The offseason moves get an A in my book. I like all of them, and unlike most Atlanta fans, I like Melky. Wish we could’ve kept Javy and dealt Lowe, but that wasn’t feasible. Still, Wren gets an A.

papadawg

February 18th, 2010
4:17 pm

All I can think of about the Braves off season moves is YAWN

Bobby's Cox

February 18th, 2010
4:18 pm

And, we don’t need another OF. Diaz is solid. Let him platoon with Melky. McClouth is decent, and let the kid play in RF.

Bobby's Cox

February 18th, 2010
4:20 pm

Save the cash for a midseason move if we need one, or if a SP gets hurt (kinda like the Jurrjens scare). This team will compete as structured.

Tailback U

February 18th, 2010
4:29 pm

I don’t want to be overly negative but my biggest thought is
this really the kind of team we want to send Bobby Cox out
on ? I know he the ultimate optimist but I wonder what
he really thinks about the this team’s likelyhood of success.
And don’t give me a quote from Bobby because we all know he
is the master of putting a happy face on a less than good
situation.

raleighbravefan

February 18th, 2010
4:39 pm

Bobby’s Cox – I pretty much agree.

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
4:46 pm

Bobby’s- I’d like for our outfielders to be better than “solid” or “decent”. Then you add in a 20 year old rookie. Melky is certainly not what we needed. Look at his numbers with the Yankees. The only number that went up was his HR total, because the Yanks now play home games in Williamsport. Melk won’t have that murderer’s row driving him in this year. The Yankees could afford Melky because they really didn’t need his offense. We basically paid 3M to re-acquire Ryan Church. Add the 3M we paid Melky to the $$ we offered Damon. The results would’ve been much better.

P Rose

February 18th, 2010
4:46 pm

Jair Jurrjens won’t need surgeons!

He will lead the Braves’ resurgence

Wait and see as Tommy Hanson

Murders hitters just like Manson

Javy Vazquez for Cabrera?

Wren is dumb as Yogi Berra

But since Huddy won’t be cruddy

And since Kenshin has a buddy

Takashi Saito speaks his language

Now Kenshin won’t have to languish

And with Billy Wagner closing

With his heater still imposing

And Troy Glaus is not a mouse

So Bobby gets to leave the house

‘Stead of hittin’ his wife and naggin’ her

One more year as Billy Wagner

Tries to get 400 saves

It’s time for baseball – LET’S GO BRAVES!

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
4:49 pm

With our offense-limited outfield, if Chipper or Glaus miss any significant time, we’re doomed. We lost a lot of 3-1 or 3-2 games last year. I don’t see how this team has improved to change that. The pitching will be fine, but how many times are we going to hear Chip Caray say, “Boy, these Braves pitchers could sue for lack of support”.?

Jesse Stone

February 18th, 2010
4:53 pm

We as fans were looking forward to an offseason where obtaining an outfield bat was almost a certainty. We came away disappointed. It’s like going downstairs on Christmas morning, hoping Santa brought you the nintendo system, only to find out dad bought a refurbished Atari.

ed simmons

February 18th, 2010
5:26 pm

Wii the owners sale localy?

Greg Norton

February 18th, 2010
5:36 pm

If the Braves consider re-signing me, say, mid-season, I promise not to swing at any pitches and I’ll just try to draw a walk. Besides, I bet Bobby Cox misses me.

Mark Lemke's Extremely Deep Voice Here

February 18th, 2010
5:49 pm

Thanks a lot Bradley!!! You just baited me into punching holes in my computer with this voting shenanigan of yours.

tree rollins

February 18th, 2010
5:54 pm

P Rose – great material – keep it up!

Robert

February 18th, 2010
6:16 pm

“Robert, let’s see your ranking of “Keeping Bobby Cox”.”

Don, keeping Cox was easily the worst move the Braves made this off-season

Of course, that’s been true since 1993

Robert

February 18th, 2010
6:52 pm

“(8) Will Bobby Cox again just basically make out the lineup and sit ot the bench and be a cheerleader – and do little or nothing relating to managing and run production?”

Oh Don, now that last one is being harsh. Bobby will fret and stew and turn all kindsa shades of red and purple while sporting facial grimaces never before seen outside of a mental institution over ball and strike called by the umps all season

Ducktown, GA

February 18th, 2010
6:54 pm

Mark, Answering your “polls” made my stomach uneasy.
Glaus: I don’t care if he produces or not. Why? If he doesn’t produce for the first 2 months you get rid of him or find someone else. With Laroche, you’d have to put up with his sorry offensive play until after the All-Star Break.
We’ve got some big names on the roster compared to their counterparts at the same positions:
(You want their autographs): Hudson, Hanson, Jurjens, McCann, Moylan
(If they are signing autographs, yeah, I’ll hop in line if it’s short- I know the number on their jersey): Chipper? Yunel, Prado?-
After that it becomes question marks and a severe drop off:
(Dude, please don’t autograph anything with value):
Diaz- I love but he ain’t a defensive outfielder and for some reason, the more days in a row he plays, the dumber he plays.
Wagner???
Glaus???
McClouth- probably not who we think he is
Outfield in General?
Bullpen. . .who?
The offense is really no different than last year to start the season. The Heyward kid is key, like Frenchy last year. If Frenchy produced last year, the Braves make a run, but he simply didn’t.
We forget that if Glaus doesn’t do anything, then it won’t be a bad move to put Prado or Infante at 1st Base, and that Infante can play.

Robert

February 18th, 2010
7:02 pm

“a guy getting 4-5 at-bats a week is NOT going to be the difference between winning and losing”

So then why waste a roster spot for a pinch hitter? Why not just let pitchers pinch hit in those crucial late game situations?

What a guy getting 4-5 at bats a week does makes a huge difference when almsot every one of those at bats comes in a make-or-break nos econd chances type of situation.

Every time that guy fails it’s ballgame – vs every time he succeeds you now have half a chance.

5 at bats a week = 130 at bats a year.

A .150 hitter (Norton somehow got his average up that high by the end of last year) gets 19.5 hits. A .250 hitter gets 32.5 hits. Difference is 13

Lets assume that every time this guy gets a hit, her gives his team a 50/50 chance to go ahead and win the ballgame. That translates to 6.5 games in the standings

Need I remind you the Braves finished 6 games out of the wild card last year.

So, I submit that a guy who gets only 4-5 at bats a week can still make a huge impact on a team.

And I’ll go further and say that a manager who uses a .150 hitter as his primary pinch hitter is easily costing his team 6 games over the course of a season

Ducktown, GA

February 18th, 2010
7:17 pm

As for Norton. Bradley, you can pick on him all you want- but at least he’s had productive years. I’ve got the Braves’ worst player in Cox’s tenure, and I’m talking about a guy we relied on every 4th or 5th day during the 2001 season. . . Paul Bako. He caught Maddux, and then had to play most of Sept b/c Javy or Eddie go hurt: : I was at a game in 2001 and realized that Bako’s avg. (.180?) was lower than Maddux’s (.194) (this was late August), and then you realized that when Maddux came out, Bako came out, meaning they had about the same # of at-bats. Bako hit .212 in 2001 in 61 games and 137 AB’s.
FYI: Bako is a career .231 hitter and since he left the Braves in 2001, he hasn’t hit above .235 since, except for .250 with the Dodgers. . . 40 at-bats
-And you can’t tell me that his “defense” overshadowed his offense and that Maddux needed him to catch in order to be successful. It is at this moment that I realized why Javy never caught Maddux. B/c Cox rests his catchers, and he realized that Maddux was so good that he didn’t need Javy’s bat in the lineup on days when Maddux pitched. Why not go out and get a horrible catcher, pay him the minimum, let him catch Maddux every 4th or 5th day and then he rides the pine. You don’t waste salary, you don’t waste a player, and you give a guy a dream job- and can still win b/c the greatest pitcher in baseball is holding the opposition to less than 3 runs a game, consistently.
Bako: I’ve always considered him the luckiest man ever: Got to catch Maddux and play in the big leagues and simply couldn’t hit, and he’s had a long career- he’s eligible for the HOF!

Justin Janssen

February 18th, 2010
7:36 pm

Signing close Billy Wagner was a lousy move
Signing set-up man Takaski Saito was a so-so move.
Trading closer Rafael Soriano was a lousy move.
Trading pitcher Javier Vazquez was a lousy move
Signing Troy Glaus was a so-so move
Signing Eric Hinske was lousy move
Not resigning Mike Gonzalez was unwise
Not resigning Adam LaRoche was unwise
Not resigning Greg Norton was greatest move ever

Overall the offseason was atrocious. Some of the biggest bright spots on the team (LaRoche, Soriano, Vazquez) are not on the team anymore. LaRoche was willing to negotiate and give the Braves a discount, but the Braves never offered him anything. Javy Vazquez was one of the best pitchers in the National League last season and ATL definately traded the wrong player… if they were concerned about salary Derek Lowe … he makes 15 million a season for average baseball. Although Soriano struggled after the all star break this season was no fluke, in 5 of 7 seasons Soriano’s ERA in 3.00 or under. Glaus once had potential but is very injury prone and same can be said with Billy Wagner. Eric Hinske is an average player… at best. Career .254/.336/.438…

Overall the offseason grade is a D+

Big South

February 18th, 2010
8:00 pm

Totally agree with Bobby Hill. All of Wren’s lousy and so-so moves can be tied to over spending on starters last off season. By painting himself into a financial box of pain, he’s been forced into various other questionable moves. In all fairness, it would help if Liberty Media would scratch out a little extra dough to build more of a contender.

athdog

February 18th, 2010
8:29 pm

Well, I didn’t like trading our best pitcher years ago for some young prospect named Smoltz, but it worked out alright. Vasquez came in as a guy who ate innings, and left as a guy who ate innings and piled up strikeouts while giving up very few runs. We’ll not know if it was a worthwhile trade for a few years yet. Frenchy had to go, no doubt, but did we really trade him for nothing? Finally, I like Bobby as a mgr, I think he’s overrated, but baseball people think highly of him. I still don’t understand, though, why he uses the same few relievers throughout the season for the vast majority of appearances, then come September they are just worn out. With starters like ours, maybe they should pitch an extra inning or so ever start.

athdog

February 18th, 2010
8:32 pm

Any chance, any chance at all, of the idiot in the commissioners chair allowing Liberty to sell the team yet? If I recall, after the media co. took over, Selig said they had to keep it longer than originally planned so as not to have too much turnover in ownership. In other words, it doesn’t matter if someone actually WANTS to own the team and make it better, we need to minimize ownership turnover, even if the owner stated their only purpose in buying the team was for the tax benefits. Anyone?

Robert

February 18th, 2010
8:51 pm

“And I enjoy watching the regal Bobby Cox and remember how much fun it was to watch the powerful Braves of the ’90’s ”

As me for a one word adjective to describe Bobby Cox, and regal is probably third to last on the list.

I mean, even for you folks who not only like him personally but really and truly believe that he is a great manager – regal?

Stained uniform shirt hanging out of his trowsers and one hoof jammed up into the far reaches of his left nostril. That’s not what I call regal

The only less fitting adjectives I can think of to describe Bobby are competetent and intelligent

Robert

February 18th, 2010
8:51 pm

I forgot one – classy.

Regal moves up to fourth from the bottom

Robert

February 18th, 2010
8:55 pm

“It is at this moment that I realized why Javy never caught Maddux. B/c Cox rests his catchers, and he realized that Maddux was so good that he didn’t need Javy’s bat in the lineup on days when Maddux pitched”

That’s totally incorrect.

Maddux always wanted the catcher to put the glove up early with a nice stable target. Javy did neither. That’s why, by Maddux’s request, Javy did not catch Maddux

nosepicker eeyore Cox

February 18th, 2010
9:23 pm

Advancing senility does not explain my remarkable mediocrity as an in-game tactician. Any normal organization would have fired my dumb-azz after blowing the 1996 World Series.

Looks like 2011 cannot come soon enough for Braves fans.

IlliniBrave

February 18th, 2010
9:47 pm

One HUGE thing to look forward to in 2011 – Cox’s retirement means we will no longer be subject to the annoying and endless rants from Robert (obsessed with donkeys) and Don (loves agreeing with Robert) and other Cox-haters.

The 4 Alou Brothers, Matty, Felipe, Jesus & Boog

February 18th, 2010
10:19 pm

We predict no stolen bases for the Braves this season.

Robert

February 18th, 2010
10:41 pm

“Any normal organization would have fired my dumb-azz after blowing the 1996 World Series”

that’s being generous. Cox shouldve been fired after the loaded Braves, on tghe heels of losing 2 consecutive WS due to poor fundamentals and horrible in-game strategizing by their manager,were outplayed and outmanaged by a good but clearly inferior Phillies team in the 1993 NLCS

hank savage

February 18th, 2010
11:00 pm

Enter your comments here

hank savage

February 18th, 2010
11:04 pm

to things wrong with braves not all but many have no idea about running the bases. the second thing is bobby cox has no idea how to handle a pitching staff. sincerely hank savage

dawg 4 u

February 18th, 2010
11:08 pm

The only two former Braves with more negative vibes than Greg Norton that I can remember are Dan Kolb and Dave “Chopper” Campbell (a reliever in the late ’70’s). Honorable mention to Kenny Lofton and Brad Komminsk.

dawg 4 u

February 18th, 2010
11:11 pm

Enter your comments here

Navigator

February 19th, 2010
12:23 am

BVILLEBARON: You’ve called me out, and I will be here and admit that I was wrong about the has been Hudson, who takes the next pot of money. If I’m right and he goes back on the DL, I fully expect you to man up and admit you’re wrong. Of course that’s the end of the season, none of that 1/2 season miracle stuff.

Jeff

February 19th, 2010
2:15 am

For those of you who support the subtraction of Gonzalez and Soriano and support the addition of Wagner and Saito, can I please remind you of this? They are OLD!!! This is not the Billy Wagner with the Astros of 10 or 15 years ago… hell, this is not the Wagner of 2006 when he saved 40 games for the Mets. This is a guy who only appeared in 45 games two years ago and 34 games last year… his saves have gone 40, 34, 27, 0 over the last four years… basically, his best days are behind him. I think Soriano and Gonzo were proven entities and MUCH better fits for this club.

As for Saito, this dude is now 40 YEARS OLD and he’s only had four years in the majors… his saves have gone from 39 to 18 to 2. I’m sorry, I don’t trust an aging Japanese league pitcher to be worth crap… see Hideki Irabu (came over from the Chiba Lotte Marines, and had a whopping 34-35 record and a 5.1 ERA in 6 MLB seasons. Yawn.)

Glaus has seen his best days, as has Wagner… probably Saito, and I am sorry, players like Hinske don’t push ballclubs over the edge to a contender. I think we should have re-signed our PROVEN performers like Vasquez, LaRoche and Gonzo and Soriano.

Bottom line: I don’t see THIS Braves team being an ounce better than last year, unless everybody in the lineup has career years.

And can I ask a question: Why, aside from Hanson and Heyward, is all our minor league talent? I look at other clubs and they develop or sign young talent like Jason Bay, Joe Mauer, Josh Beckett, Mark Buehrle, Zack Greinke, Jonathan Papelbon, Dustin Pedrioa, Justin Morneau, Carl Crawford, Hanley Ramirez, Tim Lincecum, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, Justin Upton, etc….. and the only superstar talent Atlanta has developed and kept over the last 15 years is Chipper, McCann, Hanson and now Heyward. We mortgaged our entire minor leagues for Teixeira, and now we can’t seem to replace them.

We need to SERIOUSLY look at our minor league development and find out why we don’t have 2 or 3 rookies every year that are ready to step up and contribute… the Atlanta Braves should have MORE than just 1 or 2 All-Star caliber players every year.

Go Braves!!!

Notso Fast

February 19th, 2010
4:39 am

That means that the Braves will have a “so so” year.

RayDawg

February 19th, 2010
4:40 am

Same ole cheap Braves doing a lot of talk in the offseason and letting us down.

Brave New World

February 19th, 2010
6:13 am

The Vasquez move cannot be assessed fully in 2010. Short term Yanks probably win, but if that young pitcher we got becomes something, long term the Braves win BIG TIME.

Glaus move is not a high risk, but it could be a steal – Glaus when healthy is a thumper.

With Billy Wagner it’s all about health – he is one of the most dominating closers of al time, so it’s worth the risk, and he looked pretty good at the end of last year.

The biggest “if” is with Chipper – if he can hit .300 with 20-25 dingers and 90-100 rbi’s we’ll be ok for 2010.

I look to this team to win about 90 games in 2010 and take the wild card.

Senator Blutarski

February 19th, 2010
6:54 am

I do feel down on the Vasquez trade right now, but who knows?–maybe it will be kinda like the Doyle Alexander-John Smoltz deal?–or sort of like the deal where we gave up prospects for Tex? Or Renteria for Jurrjens?

Bill

February 19th, 2010
8:25 am

Another cheap and patched up team. If all the pieces stay healthy and produce we probably have a chance at the wild card. We have basically had the same type of problems (except for the improved pitching)for about 5 years now. The players favorite manager and cheerleader will cost us about 10 games as usual. Nothing is going to change about this team until we get a new manager. The business like attitude (its just one series) and lack of fundementals is also killing the team. Hopefully Heyward will be on the team so we at least have something to look forward to.

Hewitt Poll

February 19th, 2010
8:33 am

Mark,

How about a Paul Blewitt poll? Keep him? Fire him? Keep him, but hire new assistants?

Do one poll now.
One after the ACC tournament.
One after the NCAA tournament.

Move the Team to Gwinnett

February 19th, 2010
8:50 am

At best this is a Triple A farm team with a minor league owner and management team. I long for the days at Fulton County Stadium where our expectations were low when we were the joke of the Western Division. At least we enjoyed watching the team play and occasionally treated to brilliance from Hammerin’ Hank. Give us a team that we can cheer for and owners that care. Until that happens, this Braves organization will be nothing more than an expensive farm team.

ProScout

February 19th, 2010
9:03 am

Jeff- you can’t name 15 players from appx 7 different organizations and argue that the Braves should be developing the same amount of prospects. The talent is their they just need to hold on to it. Look around the league and look at how many players came from the Braves farm system.

The store bought Yankees are usually the only team with multiple All-Star representation. Most teams have 1-3.

bvillebaron

February 19th, 2010
9:53 am

Jeff:

Just for the record Wagner only appeared in 17 games last season. He also didn’t have any saves because he was returning from TJ surgery. By the way, the “great” Rafael Soriano only pitched in 14 games in 2008 because of his own arm injuries. As for Wagner only having 27 saves in his last season as a closer that’s the same as Soriano’s career HIGH last year. Even at 40, Saito’s numbers last year were very comparable to those of Gonzalez. Saito also only had a couple of saves also last year because he was not used in the closer’s role because the Red Sox have this guy you may have hear of named Papelbon. To say or even imply that Gonzalez and Soriano are “proven” performers and Wagner and Saito are not is absurd.

As far as Atlanta developing “superstar” talent, I notice that, with the exception of Mauer and Morneau, there were not two players from the same team on your list. I think McCann is every bit the “star” player as a catcher as Morneau is as a first baseman. Unfortunately, some of the players that the Braves drafted and got rid of are or may very well be stars such as Adam Wainwright, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz. Funny how people who make a living following the minor leagues have consistently rated the Braves farm system as one of the best during the past 15 years. But then again, they couldn’t be nearly as informed as you, huh?

dangerousdan87

February 19th, 2010
10:02 am

What about Omar Infante? He is still on the team, right? This dude was hitting like .350 before he got hurt last year and may be the best utility player we have since he can play the infield or outfield. Bobby will play him somewhere if he’s hitting well again.

Steven Lemon

February 19th, 2010
10:32 am

I have been warm on the Braves and ice cold on Bobby Cox since the blown World Series of 1996. I have still managed to bring myself to root for them every year since then, even though they drove me to the Yankees as my HOME team in ‘96. After watching the lousy moves of the last two years, I’m done. Maybe I’ll come back next year when BC will join Greg Norton in retirement (from Atlanta). Meanwhile I can always hope the Braves and Yanks meet in interleague play so I can watch Cox’s face as the runs mount up against that super duper pitching staff.

Old Timer Brave Fan

February 19th, 2010
11:01 am

Cox retiring ? Bring on Joe Torre who is in his last year of his contract with L. A..
Don’t be surpised if Terry Pendleton isn’t given a shot as the top dog.Good guy but not head coach material.Hated the Vazequez move.He was the iron man on the Braves staff.
Can Hudson make it thru an entire season after going thru surgery ?
Should have kept Johnson . He can play any where.Glaus is a 3rd baseman
Use him at third when Chipper stubs his toe.
Hayward will start at Gwinnett but will be on the main roster before the All Star break.
Should have kept LaRoche. He had a good enough season in 2009 to be given another shot at first . Braves Baseball was fun to watch when Ted Turner owned the team. He had the bucks plus it was worth the price of a ticket to see his wife Jane sleep thru the game in her front row seat when she made her appearance with Ted at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.
Of course back then we all took naps when the Braves wasn’t playing well

Clip file 2.19.10 — NYFSBlogs

February 19th, 2010
9:45 pm

[...] The AJC’s Mark Bradley reviews Atlanta’s offseason moves. You can vote. It doesn’t say Mets fans are [...]

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Audience participation time! Rate Braves’ offseason moves!

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