Audience participation time! Rate Braves’ offseason moves!
This was where we left it. Two of these guys play elsewhere now. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
Pitchers and catchers report tomorrow. Those words make some folks get all misty-eyed, but I have to confess they leave me unmoved. Probably because I hate watching teams practice in any sport. Give me real games!
But I digress.
The offseason is almost officially over. The Braves made some moves, as you know. (Say this for Frank Wren: He’s a movin’ man.) Here’s what I think of this club as currently configured, but I’d like a little audience participation, too. Tell me which transactions you liked, and which you didn’t. Unless you happened loved them all, which I guess would make you Frank Wren.
You’ll note that Johnny Damon’s name is not included below. Speculation is rampant that he’ll sign with either the Tigers or the White Sox, though speculation has been known to be wrong. He still might land here, I guess, but I’d be surprised. Though I’m often surprised.
And I didn’t include the Braves’ cutting of Ryan Church or Kelly Johnson because frankly I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing with those moves. But I am including everyone’s favorite pinch-hitter in our mix.
So here it is, our veritable Murderer’s Row of polling. You can vote once in each, and I encourage you to do so. And I thank you in advance.
Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ... Loading ...Tell us what you think about the site
Customer Care »
Vacation stops, manage subscriptions and more
AJC Services
Sections
Other Editions
Visitor Agreement | Privacy Statement
© 2013 The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
221 comments Add your comment
Bigstack O' Pancakes. It is an Irish name.
February 18th, 2010
2:02 pm
Craig
February 18th, 2010
1:23 pm
My Projection for Braves 2010 season..
1.Diaz AVG. 290 RBI’s 60 HR 20 SB 20
2.Prado AVG.300 RBI’s 64 HR 15 SB 8
3.Jones AVG.270 RBI’s 75 HR 20 SB 3 Final season
4.McCann AVG.300 RBI’s 100 HR 27 SB 1 2nd place to Pujols for NL MVP
5.Glaus AVG.270 RBI’s 87 HR 26 SB 4 Takes Chipper’s Place at third in 2011
6.Mclouth AVG 276 RBI’s 78 HR 23 SB 24
7.Escobar AVG.290 RBI’s 90 HR 15 SB 12
8.Heyward AVG.315 RBI’s75 HR 14 SB 16 NL ROY and Golden Glove
9.Pitcher
Pitching
1.Hudson 17-8 ERA.3.67
2.Lowe 16-8 ERA 4.00
3.Jurrgens 19-5 ERA 2.76 NL CY
4. Hanson 18-7 ERA 2.89 3rd for NL CY
5.Smoltz 13-8 ERA 3.98 Final Season
Braves 95-67 Win Wild Card and NL Champs
Play Yankees for World Series and Win 4-3
Someone has been playing video game baseball!
Passed on the Kool-Aid
February 18th, 2010
2:08 pm
The Braves should have never allowed Cox to come back for another year. He makes terrible tactical decisions that eradicated at least 5-10 wins last season. On top of that, they expect the fans to believe this lineup, pieced together with tape and bubble gum, is going to last 162 games. One of the guys you need major production from is injury prone in Chipper and the other is trying to overcome a bad shoulder (Glaus). I’ve seen this movie already! The Mets and Phillies will be better and the Marlins are always tough. Hey Mark, let’s say around mid-May, when the Braves are 14-24, you do an article regarding why Wren should have coerced Cox to resign? Ha ha!
fred dre
February 18th, 2010
2:14 pm
the worse move made,was keeping cox another year. it will be the same as last year 75 or 80 wins,and another offseason.same old braves.
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
2:16 pm
You guys are the most negative bunch I have ever seen, and not one pitch has been made yet. Why don’t you take a breath and see what happens before you declare a disaster.I guess it is because you are followers of Mark Bradley, the glooom and doom anti-Brave. I can only hope that he does it just to stir things up – and it works!
BTW – UNC fans hung Dean Smith in effigy, and Duke fans wanted couch K fired during thier first few years. Time will tell who’s right.
Mark Biles
February 18th, 2010
2:23 pm
I certainly can’t argue with anyone who says Norton was worse in ‘09 than Corky in ‘08. It just seems that Corky came to bat at some crucial times in games late and never produced. At least Norton could take a BB sometimes when Corky rolled into an inning-ending DP. I don’t want either one of them on my team. I’d rather have anyone up from the Gwinett or Mississippi at bat in the late innings instead.
db
February 18th, 2010
2:34 pm
Please don’t put votes and blogs in the same article. This thing is running as slow as Brian McCann! hehe. But don’t get me wrong, McCann can HIT! Go Braves!!!
JewellNelson
February 18th, 2010
2:38 pm
Getting rid of Vasquez was a HUGE mistake. Vasquez finished fourth in the Cy Young voting last year. The reason why Vasquez got votes for that race was because he resembled a Cy Young pitcher for the majority of the season. Vasquez reminds me a lot of Nolan Ryan. When Ryan was in his heyday, VIRTUALLY ALMOST EVERY TIME HE PITCHED HE FLIRTED WITH A NO-HITTER. That is what Vasquez does quite frequently. His stuff is so good and so difficult to hit, that he is amost guaranteed to pitch many no-hitters throughout his career. WHY ON EARTH THEN WOULD YOU LET GO SUCH A GREAT TALENT. If a team is not serious about winning a title, then you part with such a talent. If you want to win the world series,then you keep talented people who can help you accomplish that. I remember when it was announced that Vasquez was being traded I cancelled my season tickets and vowed to never support the Braves again. Shortly after that, the Braves departed with Adam LaRoche, someone who sparked the team last season and almost helped the Braves make the wildcard. The Braves dont have a front office that is serious about winning. They have a front office who is serious about making money. That is the difference. The Braves will always make money because of the HUGE CABLE CONTRACT. But they won’t win a title with the same people running the team in the front office that has over the past 10 seasons.
pete
February 18th, 2010
2:39 pm
Lowe will have a much much better year than Vazquez will. That was Vazquez best year by fair, not something you duplicate this late in your career
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
2:47 pm
Jewel – Vazquez is Nolan Ryan (7 no-hitters and 19 1-hitters, perenial allstar, HALL OF FAMER) Wow! What color is the sky in your world?
Please see coment by pete 2:39.
When the Braves make the playoffs this year, be sure and stay home and pout some more.
ForrestTucker
February 18th, 2010
2:49 pm
Jewell: I totally agree with you. Getting rid of Adam LaRoche made no sense at all. LaRoche HAS one of the best swings I have ever seen. Once he got in a zone he was raking the ball better than just about anybody else in the league. ADAM LAROCHE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE A BETTER HITTER THAN TED WILLIAMS!
Hillbilly Deluxe
February 18th, 2010
2:49 pm
Probably because I hate watching teams practice in any sport.
I always enjoyed watching Ozzie Smith take infield.
tree rollins
February 18th, 2010
2:56 pm
The Braves in recent years are the masters of the marginal (boring) moves. So we cut loose last year’s best batter(LaRoche) and last year’s best pitcher (Vazquez). And we brought back the team’s oldest player (Jones) and added a similar aged one (Wagner). We brought in another rehab player (Glaus this year – we seem to do one of these every year to save money). We gave up on 2 bullpen projects (Soriano and Gonzalez) that cost us a lot at the time. And we gained 2 new utility players (Melke and Hinske). So do I love these moves – HAHAHA – comeonnn! Get serious. Go to the Braves games because you like the outdoors and enjoy the quiet!
Jesse Stone
February 18th, 2010
3:00 pm
Forrest Tucker- That’s only because Ted Williams is deceased. And I agree on the Greg Norton-Corky Miller debate. Is one really better than the other?
I’ve mentioned this before on other blogs: Don’t forget about the moves Wren tried to make that would have devastated this team. Trading Yunel + prospects for Peavy and giving Furcal 10M per year. Wren has been lucky.
tree rollins
February 18th, 2010
3:03 pm
Let me note what I DO like about the Braves. I like remembering how good Chipper used to be. I like thinking about how good McCann should have been. I liked seeing how former castoffs like Vazquez made big-money guys like Lowe look marginal by comparison. And I enjoy watching the regal Bobby Cox and remember how much fun it was to watch the powerful Braves of the ’90’s when Ted Turner would bring in real talent!
WinSomething
February 18th, 2010
3:12 pm
Jewel, Did you just compare Vasquez to Nolan Ryan?
Vasquez had a great year for us, but what in his career has made everyone think that he was going to repeat that again? Hes a good pitcher, but he is not a great pitcher like he was last year for us. He didnt just turn some magical corner and turn into an elite ace. His numbers were very likely to come back towards his career averages. It was bound to happen. All of you claiming that it was a huge mistake to trade him, you are basing his value strictly off of last season. Id think that the Braves front office had lower expectations for him this season than a lot of you do. If you look at Vasquez with more realistic expectations, the trade doesnt seem as terrible. A good trade? We will find out how the non melkys pan out. Bad trade? Its up to the non melkys. If we kept Vasquez and missed the playoffs this year, then he walks, what good would that be? The trade could have been worse, or the trade not happening could have been worse.
Maybe the negativity around here is warranted, but why not let some innings pass before jumping off the cliff?
polskidawg
February 18th, 2010
3:29 pm
Most of the moves made were with the near future in mind. This team was put together with the outside chance of making the playoffs, based entirely on starting pitching. The team that takes the field in April will be far different on June 15th – some by choice, some by injury.
Likely team in April:
LF – Melky
CF – Nate
RF – Diaz
1B – Glaus
2B – Prado
SS – Cabrera
3B – Chipper
C – McCann
Rotation (the Cox way):
Hudson
Lowe
Jar-Jar
Hanson
KK
June 15th lineup:
LF – Nate
CF – Schafer
RF – Heyward
1B – Glaus/Hinske
2B – Prado/Infante
SS – Cabrera
3B – Chip/Hinske/Prado
C – McCann
Rotation (performance way):
Jar-Jar
Hanson
Lowe
Hudson
KK/Medlen
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
3:30 pm
Jewell – I will ask you the same thing I have asked everyone else with no answer – What was the viable alternative (with the budget restraint) to trading Vazquez?
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
3:32 pm
polskidawg – I’m SURE you ment Yunnel at SS. Otherwise, looks about right.
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
3:33 pm
meant, not ment
Jesse Stone
February 18th, 2010
3:49 pm
raleigh- Trading Vaz wasn’t the problem. Getting a 4th outfielder and POSSIBLE major league pitcher in return was the problem. I would’ve rather dumped him for prospects only, than to waste salary on Melky Church.
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
4:04 pm
Jesse Sone – Point well taken, except we would still need at least 1 outfielder with little $$ to buy one. Also, let’s don’t write off Melky compleatly untill we see what he does. I agree it is important for a mid-payroll team to get as many good prospects as possible. Of course, we don’t know what else was offered for JV, who had 1 year left before FA and likely won’t repeat a career year.
Bobby's Cox
February 18th, 2010
4:17 pm
The offseason moves get an A in my book. I like all of them, and unlike most Atlanta fans, I like Melky. Wish we could’ve kept Javy and dealt Lowe, but that wasn’t feasible. Still, Wren gets an A.
papadawg
February 18th, 2010
4:17 pm
All I can think of about the Braves off season moves is YAWN
Bobby's Cox
February 18th, 2010
4:18 pm
And, we don’t need another OF. Diaz is solid. Let him platoon with Melky. McClouth is decent, and let the kid play in RF.
Bobby's Cox
February 18th, 2010
4:20 pm
Save the cash for a midseason move if we need one, or if a SP gets hurt (kinda like the Jurrjens scare). This team will compete as structured.
Tailback U
February 18th, 2010
4:29 pm
I don’t want to be overly negative but my biggest thought is
this really the kind of team we want to send Bobby Cox out
on ? I know he the ultimate optimist but I wonder what
he really thinks about the this team’s likelyhood of success.
And don’t give me a quote from Bobby because we all know he
is the master of putting a happy face on a less than good
situation.
raleighbravefan
February 18th, 2010
4:39 pm
Bobby’s Cox – I pretty much agree.
Jesse Stone
February 18th, 2010
4:46 pm
Bobby’s- I’d like for our outfielders to be better than “solid” or “decent”. Then you add in a 20 year old rookie. Melky is certainly not what we needed. Look at his numbers with the Yankees. The only number that went up was his HR total, because the Yanks now play home games in Williamsport. Melk won’t have that murderer’s row driving him in this year. The Yankees could afford Melky because they really didn’t need his offense. We basically paid 3M to re-acquire Ryan Church. Add the 3M we paid Melky to the $$ we offered Damon. The results would’ve been much better.
P Rose
February 18th, 2010
4:46 pm
Jair Jurrjens won’t need surgeons!
He will lead the Braves’ resurgence
Wait and see as Tommy Hanson
Murders hitters just like Manson
Javy Vazquez for Cabrera?
Wren is dumb as Yogi Berra
But since Huddy won’t be cruddy
And since Kenshin has a buddy
Takashi Saito speaks his language
Now Kenshin won’t have to languish
And with Billy Wagner closing
With his heater still imposing
And Troy Glaus is not a mouse
So Bobby gets to leave the house
‘Stead of hittin’ his wife and naggin’ her
One more year as Billy Wagner
Tries to get 400 saves
It’s time for baseball – LET’S GO BRAVES!
Jesse Stone
February 18th, 2010
4:49 pm
With our offense-limited outfield, if Chipper or Glaus miss any significant time, we’re doomed. We lost a lot of 3-1 or 3-2 games last year. I don’t see how this team has improved to change that. The pitching will be fine, but how many times are we going to hear Chip Caray say, “Boy, these Braves pitchers could sue for lack of support”.?
Jesse Stone
February 18th, 2010
4:53 pm
We as fans were looking forward to an offseason where obtaining an outfield bat was almost a certainty. We came away disappointed. It’s like going downstairs on Christmas morning, hoping Santa brought you the nintendo system, only to find out dad bought a refurbished Atari.
ed simmons
February 18th, 2010
5:26 pm
Wii the owners sale localy?
Greg Norton
February 18th, 2010
5:36 pm
If the Braves consider re-signing me, say, mid-season, I promise not to swing at any pitches and I’ll just try to draw a walk. Besides, I bet Bobby Cox misses me.
Mark Lemke's Extremely Deep Voice Here
February 18th, 2010
5:49 pm
Thanks a lot Bradley!!! You just baited me into punching holes in my computer with this voting shenanigan of yours.
tree rollins
February 18th, 2010
5:54 pm
P Rose – great material – keep it up!
Robert
February 18th, 2010
6:16 pm
“Robert, let’s see your ranking of “Keeping Bobby Cox”.”
Don, keeping Cox was easily the worst move the Braves made this off-season
Of course, that’s been true since 1993
Robert
February 18th, 2010
6:52 pm
“(8) Will Bobby Cox again just basically make out the lineup and sit ot the bench and be a cheerleader – and do little or nothing relating to managing and run production?”
Oh Don, now that last one is being harsh. Bobby will fret and stew and turn all kindsa shades of red and purple while sporting facial grimaces never before seen outside of a mental institution over ball and strike called by the umps all season
Ducktown, GA
February 18th, 2010
6:54 pm
Mark, Answering your “polls” made my stomach uneasy.
Glaus: I don’t care if he produces or not. Why? If he doesn’t produce for the first 2 months you get rid of him or find someone else. With Laroche, you’d have to put up with his sorry offensive play until after the All-Star Break.
We’ve got some big names on the roster compared to their counterparts at the same positions:
(You want their autographs): Hudson, Hanson, Jurjens, McCann, Moylan
(If they are signing autographs, yeah, I’ll hop in line if it’s short- I know the number on their jersey): Chipper? Yunel, Prado?-
After that it becomes question marks and a severe drop off:
(Dude, please don’t autograph anything with value):
Diaz- I love but he ain’t a defensive outfielder and for some reason, the more days in a row he plays, the dumber he plays.
Wagner???
Glaus???
McClouth- probably not who we think he is
Outfield in General?
Bullpen. . .who?
The offense is really no different than last year to start the season. The Heyward kid is key, like Frenchy last year. If Frenchy produced last year, the Braves make a run, but he simply didn’t.
We forget that if Glaus doesn’t do anything, then it won’t be a bad move to put Prado or Infante at 1st Base, and that Infante can play.
Robert
February 18th, 2010
7:02 pm
“a guy getting 4-5 at-bats a week is NOT going to be the difference between winning and losing”
So then why waste a roster spot for a pinch hitter? Why not just let pitchers pinch hit in those crucial late game situations?
What a guy getting 4-5 at bats a week does makes a huge difference when almsot every one of those at bats comes in a make-or-break nos econd chances type of situation.
Every time that guy fails it’s ballgame – vs every time he succeeds you now have half a chance.
5 at bats a week = 130 at bats a year.
A .150 hitter (Norton somehow got his average up that high by the end of last year) gets 19.5 hits. A .250 hitter gets 32.5 hits. Difference is 13
Lets assume that every time this guy gets a hit, her gives his team a 50/50 chance to go ahead and win the ballgame. That translates to 6.5 games in the standings
Need I remind you the Braves finished 6 games out of the wild card last year.
So, I submit that a guy who gets only 4-5 at bats a week can still make a huge impact on a team.
And I’ll go further and say that a manager who uses a .150 hitter as his primary pinch hitter is easily costing his team 6 games over the course of a season
Ducktown, GA
February 18th, 2010
7:17 pm
As for Norton. Bradley, you can pick on him all you want- but at least he’s had productive years. I’ve got the Braves’ worst player in Cox’s tenure, and I’m talking about a guy we relied on every 4th or 5th day during the 2001 season. . . Paul Bako. He caught Maddux, and then had to play most of Sept b/c Javy or Eddie go hurt: : I was at a game in 2001 and realized that Bako’s avg. (.180?) was lower than Maddux’s (.194) (this was late August), and then you realized that when Maddux came out, Bako came out, meaning they had about the same # of at-bats. Bako hit .212 in 2001 in 61 games and 137 AB’s.
FYI: Bako is a career .231 hitter and since he left the Braves in 2001, he hasn’t hit above .235 since, except for .250 with the Dodgers. . . 40 at-bats
-And you can’t tell me that his “defense” overshadowed his offense and that Maddux needed him to catch in order to be successful. It is at this moment that I realized why Javy never caught Maddux. B/c Cox rests his catchers, and he realized that Maddux was so good that he didn’t need Javy’s bat in the lineup on days when Maddux pitched. Why not go out and get a horrible catcher, pay him the minimum, let him catch Maddux every 4th or 5th day and then he rides the pine. You don’t waste salary, you don’t waste a player, and you give a guy a dream job- and can still win b/c the greatest pitcher in baseball is holding the opposition to less than 3 runs a game, consistently.
Bako: I’ve always considered him the luckiest man ever: Got to catch Maddux and play in the big leagues and simply couldn’t hit, and he’s had a long career- he’s eligible for the HOF!
Justin Janssen
February 18th, 2010
7:36 pm
Signing close Billy Wagner was a lousy move
Signing set-up man Takaski Saito was a so-so move.
Trading closer Rafael Soriano was a lousy move.
Trading pitcher Javier Vazquez was a lousy move
Signing Troy Glaus was a so-so move
Signing Eric Hinske was lousy move
Not resigning Mike Gonzalez was unwise
Not resigning Adam LaRoche was unwise
Not resigning Greg Norton was greatest move ever
Overall the offseason was atrocious. Some of the biggest bright spots on the team (LaRoche, Soriano, Vazquez) are not on the team anymore. LaRoche was willing to negotiate and give the Braves a discount, but the Braves never offered him anything. Javy Vazquez was one of the best pitchers in the National League last season and ATL definately traded the wrong player… if they were concerned about salary Derek Lowe … he makes 15 million a season for average baseball. Although Soriano struggled after the all star break this season was no fluke, in 5 of 7 seasons Soriano’s ERA in 3.00 or under. Glaus once had potential but is very injury prone and same can be said with Billy Wagner. Eric Hinske is an average player… at best. Career .254/.336/.438…
Overall the offseason grade is a D+
Big South
February 18th, 2010
8:00 pm
Totally agree with Bobby Hill. All of Wren’s lousy and so-so moves can be tied to over spending on starters last off season. By painting himself into a financial box of pain, he’s been forced into various other questionable moves. In all fairness, it would help if Liberty Media would scratch out a little extra dough to build more of a contender.
athdog
February 18th, 2010
8:29 pm
Well, I didn’t like trading our best pitcher years ago for some young prospect named Smoltz, but it worked out alright. Vasquez came in as a guy who ate innings, and left as a guy who ate innings and piled up strikeouts while giving up very few runs. We’ll not know if it was a worthwhile trade for a few years yet. Frenchy had to go, no doubt, but did we really trade him for nothing? Finally, I like Bobby as a mgr, I think he’s overrated, but baseball people think highly of him. I still don’t understand, though, why he uses the same few relievers throughout the season for the vast majority of appearances, then come September they are just worn out. With starters like ours, maybe they should pitch an extra inning or so ever start.
athdog
February 18th, 2010
8:32 pm
Any chance, any chance at all, of the idiot in the commissioners chair allowing Liberty to sell the team yet? If I recall, after the media co. took over, Selig said they had to keep it longer than originally planned so as not to have too much turnover in ownership. In other words, it doesn’t matter if someone actually WANTS to own the team and make it better, we need to minimize ownership turnover, even if the owner stated their only purpose in buying the team was for the tax benefits. Anyone?
Robert
February 18th, 2010
8:51 pm
“And I enjoy watching the regal Bobby Cox and remember how much fun it was to watch the powerful Braves of the ’90’s ”
As me for a one word adjective to describe Bobby Cox, and regal is probably third to last on the list.
I mean, even for you folks who not only like him personally but really and truly believe that he is a great manager – regal?
Stained uniform shirt hanging out of his trowsers and one hoof jammed up into the far reaches of his left nostril. That’s not what I call regal
The only less fitting adjectives I can think of to describe Bobby are competetent and intelligent
Robert
February 18th, 2010
8:51 pm
I forgot one – classy.
Regal moves up to fourth from the bottom
Robert
February 18th, 2010
8:55 pm
“It is at this moment that I realized why Javy never caught Maddux. B/c Cox rests his catchers, and he realized that Maddux was so good that he didn’t need Javy’s bat in the lineup on days when Maddux pitched”
That’s totally incorrect.
Maddux always wanted the catcher to put the glove up early with a nice stable target. Javy did neither. That’s why, by Maddux’s request, Javy did not catch Maddux
nosepicker eeyore Cox
February 18th, 2010
9:23 pm
Advancing senility does not explain my remarkable mediocrity as an in-game tactician. Any normal organization would have fired my dumb-azz after blowing the 1996 World Series.
Looks like 2011 cannot come soon enough for Braves fans.
IlliniBrave
February 18th, 2010
9:47 pm
One HUGE thing to look forward to in 2011 – Cox’s retirement means we will no longer be subject to the annoying and endless rants from Robert (obsessed with donkeys) and Don (loves agreeing with Robert) and other Cox-haters.
The 4 Alou Brothers, Matty, Felipe, Jesus & Boog
February 18th, 2010
10:19 pm
We predict no stolen bases for the Braves this season.