Which team is having the better season – UGA or Tech?
Thompkins battles Lawal. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
This will sound a little weird, but it’s a Bradley post so whaddaya expect? I’m asking a question, the nub of which is: Can a team with an 11-12 record really be having a better season than one that’s 17-8?
Wait, wait. Hear me out. The 11-12 team is Georgia; the 17-8 team is Tech. And to offer a real answer, don’t we have to consider more than just won-lost records? Don’t we have to consider …
Expectations: Georgia was picked to finish last in the six-team SEC East and is indeed in last place at 3-7; Tech was picked to finish fourth in the 12-team ACC and, at 5-6, stands eighth.
Polls: Georgia has been unranked all season; Tech was ranked 22nd in the Associated Press preseason poll and 20th in the coaches’ poll but dropped out of both Monday.
Personnel: Georgia starts a former walk-on (Ricky McPhee); Tech starts three McDonald’s All-Americans (Gani Lawal, Iman Shumpert, Derrick Favors).
Player development: Georgia guard Travis Leslie averaged 6.3 points a freshman but is averaging 14.5 in his first year under Fox and is projected by NBAdraft.net as the 23rd player on its 2011 mock; Tech forward Favors was rated the nation’s No. 1 recruit by Scout.com last season but is averaging 9.7 points in ACC play and has slipped from being the second player listed on NBAdraft.net’s 2010 mock to the seventh.
Personnel utilization: Georgia’s two best players, Leslie and forward Trey Thompkins, average 10.7 and 13. 2 shots per game, respectively; Tech’s two best players, Favors and Lawal, average 7.5 and 9.2 shots, respectively.
Depth: Georgia’s seventh man, center Chris Barnes, averages 2.8 points; Tech’s eighth man, guard Glen Rice Jr., averages 4.5 points.
Stability: Mark Fox is in his first season at Georgia; Paul Hewitt is in his 10th at Tech.
Head-to-head: Georgia beat Tech 73-66 in Athens on Jan. 5.
Signature wins: Georgia has beaten three teams (Tech, Tennessee and Vanderbilt) that were ranked when the game was played; Tech has beaten three (Duke, North Carolina and Clemson).
Bad losses: Georgia lost to Wofford at home, lost by 28 points at Missouri and was routed at Florida and Auburn; only Tech’s loss at Duke has come by more than 10 points.
Loading ...Road records: Georgia is 0-8; Tech is 3-6.
RPI: Georgia is 90th; Tech is 29th.
Strength of schedule: Georgia’s is rated the 11th-toughest nationally; Tech’s is 12th.
Probable final regular-season record: Assuming Georgia beats Florida in Athens and LSU in Baton Rouge, it should finish 14-15; assuming Tech wins its three remaining home games, it should finish 20-10.
Probable destination: Georgia will do well to make the NIT; Tech would have to mess up not to reach the NCAA.
Conclusion: Tech has better players and still figures to go further but hasn’t really done much yet; Georgia entered just hoping not to be embarrassed but has beaten four teams (Illinois is the fourth) that stand to make the NCAA field. And Georgia did beat Tech. All things considered, the Bulldogs have had, at least to date, the better season.
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217 comments Add your comment
Hoops Dawg
February 16th, 2010
11:58 am
Last year at this time, the big story was “which bad team would Mr. Favors favor–Tech or the Dawgs?” He made the sensible choice, not knowing who the coach was going to be in Athens. Now a thought question: where do you think UGA would be with Favors together with Leslie and Thompkins in Mark Fox’s triangle offense? My estimate: they would be in second place in the SEC East pointing toward an NCAA bid. It is not that I think Favors is superman (his play so far has shown that to be true) It is just that he would be a very nice piece for the system that is setting up in Athens.
But enough about silly thought questions (which would make at least as interesting a blog topic as the subject of this one). I am not fond of so-called “one and done” players–even if having two guys like Favors and John Wall, along with this coach and the existing roster, would transform Uga into a top five team. I’d be happy with recruiting another power forward and sweet shooting guard or swingman for next year (remember that we have a pretty good transfer guard riding the pines this season) and let’s see what transpires. The nice thing about basketball is that if you can get the right personnel, it takes only a year or two to become highly competitive.
Atlanta Jacket
February 16th, 2010
11:58 am
Uga has hope and clearly Fox has them headed in the right direction. With CPH this year is a temporary blip above mediocrity. Sad to say his teams haven’t improved much since the anomaly that was 2004.
Tom
February 16th, 2010
12:00 pm
No question in my mind…..Georgia hands down. They aere overachieving and have every reason to be excited about their future. Tech is has all the enough talent to field two teams but can’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag! I am Tech alumnus and I am sick and tired of Hewitt’s late season disasters. Another year of NIT level production…
BuzztheKiller
February 16th, 2010
12:12 pm
Tech basketball is under-achieving with superior talent, kind of like UGA football. UGA basketball is over-achieving with inferior talent, kind of like Tech football. Difference is coaching- Mark Fox=Paul Johnson. Paul Hewitt= Mark Richt. Has anyone noticed the symmetry? Paul=Mark.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:14 pm
Ever noticed that Georgia has two coaches named Mark, while Tech has two named Paul?
PMC
February 16th, 2010
12:19 pm
Put those two toegther mark and you get Zach Morris.
GoJackets
February 16th, 2010
12:20 pm
Tech has been the more disappointing team, but has still had a better season. If you go by expectations alone then Miss St had a better football season then Florida. I give UGA credit for being more competitive then expected but they have still been pretty awful this year. Mark Fox must be loving life. He can have a losing record and be in last place and everyone is praising his amazing coaching ability.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:22 pm
I’d agree that it’s almost a no-lose situation for Mark Fox. Coaches love it when there are no expectations. But it won’t always be thus.
BuzztheKiller
February 16th, 2010
12:28 pm
Wow- scary MB- we had the exact same thought within two minutes! I have never noticed that for some reason until I was writing Mark=Paul.
Jackets Keep Rollin'
February 16th, 2010
12:37 pm
Wow, a losing season for UGA qualifies as a great season. That’s all you have to know about where the programs are in relation to eachother. We have had the better season. And Mark Fox should be judged after 2 or 3 seasons. Until be shows he can win a few more conference games, he is basically an unknown. Folks, he’s coaching a last place team.
long time MB blog reader
February 16th, 2010
12:38 pm
Bradley- Good article, but the only stat that really matters is who won head to head. If UGA didnt win that this wouldn’t even be comparable. Also what are your thoughts for the future of both these programs? These blogs would be a lot better if MB would give some more feedback to the bloggers
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:40 pm
I don’t give feedback? And you’re a “long time MB blog reader”? Wow. I could have sworn half the comments on here are mine.
wiley
February 16th, 2010
12:44 pm
In terms of overall health of the program…id still give the nod to tech. Even though we cant dominate a down ACC. We will always attract top flight talent, and have a proven track record of sending talent to the NBA. With this being said…UGA has shown a great deal of promise. But they are 3-7 in one of the worst basketball conferences…along with being 0-8 on the road. Tech’s regular season has been disappointing…but as long as tech makes it to the dance…they are having a better year than UGA.
Johnny Weissmuller
February 16th, 2010
12:44 pm
UGA Basketball = Duke Football
Larry
February 16th, 2010
12:46 pm
“long time MB blog reader,”
“More feedback”? Hard to believe your user name! MB is the most interactive writer at the AJC even though he’s clearly wrong in thinking Bobby Cox is a great manager.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:47 pm
There’s something else I probably should have mentioned. Neither team is filling its gym on a consistent basis.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:48 pm
See? I give so much feedback people here know who I’m going to defend before I even do it.
long time MB blog reader
February 16th, 2010
12:49 pm
there are over 100 comments and two of your three responses pertain to the guy who said first and the irony of the UGA/GT coach names. I wouldn’t call this useful feedback, and I definitely think saying half these comments are yours is quite a stretch
long time MB blog reader
February 16th, 2010
12:50 pm
and anyone can tell who you are going to defend based on the article. Not trying to be a hater, I do love your blogs
DawginLex
February 16th, 2010
12:53 pm
I like our coach. Tech’s coach has underachieved in 2010 but the year is not over.
Calipari has done wonders in Lexington but I have to give props to Bruce Pearl for how he handled a player created mess with his team leader shooting the toes off of the entire program.
I like where Fox has UGA’s program but he has to recruit. As Calipari has proven, 3 freshmen can turn a NIT team into a FF caliber team.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
12:54 pm
This one’s an exception, I’ll concede. I slept in today.
Lesh Philling
February 16th, 2010
1:02 pm
Just in case anyone’s still reading this far down the line:
I don’t know why anyone would seriously follow basketball at either the college or pro level at this point. Any potentially good college player inevitably jumps to the NBA before they’re ready, thus resulting in an inferor product at both levels. The NBA wants us to pay big bucks to watch players that should still be in college. Colleges want us to make big donations to watch neophyte players that should be spending more time learning the game and developing team chemistry. Watch out, college football fans because this scenario is heading our way, too.
Dawg Centralo
February 16th, 2010
1:08 pm
The Dawgs should be a lot better next year—they are a young team and Fox is bringing in some top recruits!
Ralph
February 16th, 2010
1:16 pm
Ga doing more with less talent,but GT still better for now!
The difference with Basketball
February 16th, 2010
1:19 pm
…………and football is that the barrier to entry as being an elite team in basketball is far different than it is in football. Basketball requires a good coach and capital committments in the tens of millions. Football requires good coaching and financial committements in the hundreds of millions. Just like everything is in college athletics…..the folks that can stroke the biggest checks (or are willing to) usually succeed the most. It’s a sad state of affairs, but it’s the truth. Tech and Georgia should both be FAR better basketball programs than have have historically. There is really good basketball talent in this state…….maybe not to the level of the football talent……..but enough that Tech & UGA should be able to fair far better than they have. When Tech AND UGA fans demand excellence…….they’ll get excellence.
Georgia can keep Fox………..if they pay him and make a committment to winning.
Tech get rid of Hewitt and get a Super Star coach……if they pay him and make a committment to winning.
hammerhead
February 16th, 2010
1:25 pm
Thank God – a blog without a post from BuLLdawg…. Interesting topic, Mark, but regardless of where you start it’s how you finish and it’s all about Wins and Losses. Therefore, Tech has had the better season. However, I am THRILLED with Mark Fox and fully expect great things from him and the Georgia basketball team in the future. Oh, and the article by Carroll Rogers on Fox is a good read… hh
Harry
February 16th, 2010
1:33 pm
tech fans, paul hewitt isnt THAT bad. He can bring in the talent by the boat load, and it wasnt TOO long ago we were at THE game. even when gani and d fav leave this year, we still got iman, udofia, rice, miller, and that other dude. Plus Sheehan is leaving so we definately going back to the dance
JD
February 16th, 2010
1:35 pm
DaWWWgs .. any you know it.
P. Bull Terrier
February 16th, 2010
1:43 pm
Basketball is just the opposite of football this season. In basketball Tech has the better team, but Georgia is having the better season, given what they have to work with. Georgia’s season looks like it could be the turning point for the program. Georgia isn’t a very good team, but the players work hard and it looks like Fox is getting everything possible from the players he has. A few more strong recruits and Georgia could become a factor in the seasons to come. Tech’s season can only be considered a disappointment at this point. Unless they come alive in the ACC & NCAA Tournament, this season could be a turning point in the wrong direction. As a result, the advantage goes to UGA.
Being honest, I have to give the advantage in football this season to Tech, even though UGA won the head-to-head match-up. Like the Tech basketball team, the UGA football team had higher expectations that it didn’t meet. On the other hand, Tech’s football team accomplished most of it’s goals for the season. Their goals may not have been as challenging as UGA’s goals, but for the most part, they got it done. The UGA basketball team’s goals may not have been as exciting as Tech’s, but even if the Dawgs don’t win another game, they have exceeded expectations.
On the plus side, UGA can take it’s disappointing football team and beat Tech’s highly successful football team, and UGA can take it’s collection of misfits and walk-ons that they call a basketball team and beat Tech’s highly favored basketball team full of of All-Americans and top recruits.
.
February 16th, 2010
1:44 pm
UGA > Ga Tech (In everything) hahahahahah
jarvis
February 16th, 2010
1:47 pm
Tough call on which team is having a better year, but which coach is having a better season is pretty obvious.
Michael
February 16th, 2010
1:58 pm
Nonsense. I’m a Dawg fan, but Tech is clearly having the better season. UGA is doing a better job of meeting/exceeding expectations than Tech, but Tech’s bar was set much higher than UGA’s. Simply doing better than expected is not the same as truly having a better year. Tech is clearly ahead in that department. Tech will likely make the NCAA tournament, and would certainly be in the NIT if they don’t. UGA isn’t going to sniff either one unless they repeat the SEC tourney miracle of a couple of years ago. Therefore, Tech is having a better year. Period, end of story.
It was nice to beat them though.
Vick=Dog killing thug
February 16th, 2010
1:59 pm
Just like in football, UGA hoops having an off or rebuilding year can still beat the bugs. Slice and dice it anyway you want but it’s the truth.
We run this state
Bradley is a jackass
February 16th, 2010
2:23 pm
This article exemplifies the pathetic fanbase of UGA. Dead last in the division and they’re satisfied. And glowing about the “amazing job” Fox is doing. If he was so amazing UGA wouldn’t be dead last in the east. Get a grip folks!
wiley
February 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
Vick=Dog killing thug your right. When was the last time you got an at large bid to the tourney?….crickets chirping.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
2:28 pm
Last Georgia at-large bid to the NCAA was in 2002. FYI.
wiley
February 16th, 2010
2:30 pm
Is there an asterisk next to it? due to Harrick?
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
2:31 pm
I don’t know that Georgia had to forfeit games from that season, Wiley.
wiley
February 16th, 2010
2:33 pm
Mark, I know this is assuming Paul Hewitt gets canned…but what coach do you think tech should go after? Assuming money will be short…I think they should give a young coach just like UGA did for fox. I think anyone can win with the amount of talent tech has.
wiley
February 16th, 2010
2:34 pm
wow I messed that question up.
*I think they should give a young coach a chance just like UGA did for fox.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
2:39 pm
Wiley, there’s no way Hewitt gets fired if the Jackets make the NCAA tournament, which I’m still confident they will. But, for the sake of conjecture …
I’d start with Brad Stevens of Butler. Or Brian Gregory of Dayton.
wiley
February 16th, 2010
2:48 pm
Thanks for the insight mark.
Evansdawg
February 16th, 2010
2:51 pm
Coach Fox has rekindled interest in Georgia Basketball. That in itself is remarkable. I was lucky enough to have attended the game vs. Tennessee, which was also the first sellout of Stegeman for a basketball game since 2007. The place was on fire. The fans were as vocal is in 1990 when we won the SEC vs. Shaq and LSU. Its good to see this new interest, and Coach Fox is getting the attention of some great recruits out there. Dawg fans have no reason to be angry about what is happening in Georgia hoops. We are THE team in the SEC that nobody wants to play right now. Thats cool! Go Dawgs.
Ted M
February 16th, 2010
3:38 pm
Tech is going to lose at home tonight against NC…unfortunately.
db
February 16th, 2010
3:39 pm
As much as I would like to agree with much of the bulldog nation, UGA will never be a basketball powerhouse as long as they are playing in the confines of Stegeman…that place is horrid….high schools have better facilities. Places like Duke can get away with minimal facilities due to tradition, but UGA has no tradition to speak of.
Ted M
February 16th, 2010
3:41 pm
Tech is going to lose at home tonight to NC…unfortunately.
MorningJacket
February 16th, 2010
3:44 pm
Some suggestions for CPH (I’ve got a lot more!):
1. Make Favors come off the bench. If he pouts, tough. He’s not doing anything near what was expected anyway. It might motivate him to start scoring more than 4 pts.a game (see Wake) and not look so aloof/bored on the court (see every game).
2. Reduce playing time for anyone who shoots less than 70% of their free throws. Anyone who shoots an air ball on a free throw gets benched immediately.
3. Require minimum three passes before shooting in half-court offense. (Watch how top 5 teams move the ball.)
4. Instead of lashing out and destroying the confidence of Shumpert/Udofia, work with them. They both look like scared rabbits on the court.
5. You work hard on defense. If you’re incapable of creating an offense, at least get some motion going. You have 10 players; you can sub out if someone gets tired.
6. Ditch that God-awful press. It’s given up way more easy baskets than created turnovers.
7. Locate some rec league coaches and ask them to give you some inbounds plays.
Work on these, Coach, for starters. A lot more to come before tournament time. No pressure.
Ted M
February 16th, 2010
3:55 pm
hmmm
UGA is state champs!!!!
February 16th, 2010
4:02 pm
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
73-66!!!!
GA Tech is supposed to be the most talented team in the nation and contend for the national title!
However, Tech could not even win the state championship as UGA whipped them even using walk-ons!!!
As usual GA Tech is overrated and chokes easily! It is a cycle that never ends!
73-66!!!!
C’mon Techies let’s hear your long list of creative excuses and those never ending moans and whines that you have year after year!
GT Flagboy
February 16th, 2010
4:04 pm
At least our guys look so hot in those shiny gold shorts and those long sexy legs! Oh Yum!
I’d like to thank all of the Jacketnation for helping Atlanta to be named the number one gay city in America. It could not have happened without us!
Go Jackets!