5 warning signs as these Hawks seek to move upward
Here's Jeff Teague. Haven't seen much of him lately. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
A stipulation: The Hawks are having a sunny season and have a chance to play deeper into the playoffs than they have in 40 years. “We’ve closed the gap on the top three [teams in the East],” Mike Woodson said last week, and they’ve gained so much ground they’ve become the fourth in a Big Four. That said …
When you step up in class, even the tiniest flaw can become major. And here, as they go forward, are five warning signs for these Hawks:
1. The bench is basically two guys plus Mo. Remember when we thought the Hawks actually had a second unit? That lasted about 10 days. Jason Collins has worked 17 minutes this season. Joe Smith averages 9.2 minutes per game, Jeff Teague 9.7. (Not-so-fun fact: The rookie Teague, whom Mike Woodson claims to like, averages nearly six fewer minutes than did Acie Law, whom Woodson didn’t much like, in his rookie season.) Mo Evans worked 23 minutes a game last season; he’s down to 15.3 this.
The bench is essentially Jamal Crawford, who has been great, and Zaza Pachulia. We saw the peril in that when both were out against Miami last week. The other subs managed a total of eight points.
2. Turns out continuity has its limits. It seemed a major victory when Rick Sund managed to retain Pachulia, Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby over the offseason. Alas, not one of them has taken his new contract and run with it. Pachulia averaged 6.2 points and 5.7 rebounds last season; he’s averaging 4.4 and 3.4 now. Bibby’s scoring average has dropped six whole points and his shooting percentage has plunged from 43.5 to 40.6. Williams is having his worst season since he was a rookie, which was back in 2005-2006.
3. Those re-upped contracts and the impending Joe Johnson negotiations tied Sund’s hands. The Hawks have all but conceded they’re not interested in making a deal — the deadline is Thursday — but the colder truth is that they can’t. Williams and Bibby fit the definition of expendable, but nobody wants them because their performance has dipped and they’re saddled with long-term contracts to boot. And the Hawks couldn’t take on a big salary were they so inclined; it will take $17 million a year to keep Johnson. (He declined their offer of $15 million last fall.)
4. Speaking of Joe … he’s shooting it more, passing it less. He’s averaging 18.4 shots per game, up from 18 last season, against 4.6 assists, down from 5.8. Given that the Hawks have other capable scorers — Al Horford made the All-Star team, and Crawford and Josh Smith coulda/shoulda — this isn’t a promising development. Johnson and Crawford don’t work as well together as Johnson and Bibby did, and Bibby is on the floor less than Crawford.
Still, Woodson seems determined to stick with Iso-Joe as an endgame strategy. Against the Thunder on MLK Day, Johnson took eight of the Hawks’ 23 fourth-quarter shots; he missed five and the Hawks lost. Against the Celtics on Jan. 29, he took nine of the Hawks’ 19 fourth-quarter shots; he made seven and the Hawks won. It’s fine when it works, but shouldn’t a team with more options have … more options?
5. The Hawks have owned one of the other Big Four, but only one. Good news: The Hawks are 4-0 against Boston. Bad news: They’re 0-5 against Cleveland and Orlando, with the average margin of defeat being 15.4 points. Worse news: They’re more apt to play the Cavs or the Magic in Round 2 than they are the Celtics.
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147 comments Add your comment
Gilley
February 15th, 2010
10:21 am
The truth! 1ST
S. Webb
February 15th, 2010
10:22 am
First
Gilley
February 15th, 2010
10:22 am
I agree. Do you think his contract not being renewed has something to do with his rotation? He doesn’t want to risk mistakes with the bench and lose so he tries to burn the starters, even when they tired and playing not so well?
Mark Bradley
February 15th, 2010
10:30 am
Kudos to Gilley.
As for Woodson’s contract: I don’t think that makes a difference. Coaches always trying to squeeze out every win. It’s easy to play your subs when you’re 20 points ahead; it’s hard when you’re down five.
Bangkapi Ajarn
February 15th, 2010
10:38 am
Mark, my impression of the points you raise is that coaching is a net negative, was that the intent?
1)-Coaching decision, Woodson has been reluctant to play rookies or go deep into the bench from the get-go, seems like. Kinna like the old Cremins strategy at Uni level, without the talent advantage over opponents.
2) Motivation/coaching issues?
3) Not sure how this would/should affect performance on the court.
4) Another coaching decision – disinclined to make adjustments, falling into a rut?
5) Coaching/matchups/adjustments issue?
Mark, what is your suggestion for a fix/improvement?
clarkekent
February 15th, 2010
10:44 am
WOW! and the truth shall set you free.
subborn coach (does not adjust to game time situations)
bad bench usage(teague and joe smith need to play more – collins should play more vs ORL)
a non-aggressive all-star that can’t get to the foul line (shoots floaters and fadeaway jumpers)
a starting PG that can’t guard anybody and shot has dissappeared
a starting SF that has not developed (can someone call josh childress back)
-can we get D. Wade in here this offseason if joe decides to leave
-and fire the coach
-and trade bibby or marvin – with such a young team, do we really need a late 1st round pick.
* marvin and bench development are the key for the rest of the season if no changes are made.
Jamaaliver
February 15th, 2010
10:52 am
Alas, It may be long time for a coaching chg. I think Woodson has reached his ceiling. I’ve been thinking, we modeled ourselves after Detroit right? Detroit didn’t win a title until they dumped Rick Carlisle (after reaching back to back Eastern Conference Finals in 50 win seasons) and replaced him with HOF coach Larry Brown.
I do think that’ll be what it takes to get to the next level.
Jamaaliver
February 15th, 2010
10:55 am
And a coaching change could alleviate MOST of the problems listed above.
dap01
February 15th, 2010
11:01 am
Has anyone heard how Childress is progressing? Is his jump shot improved? Has his game improved? Any word?
Boneyard Randy
February 15th, 2010
11:09 am
We’re winning and are among the top teams in offensive efficiency, so those individual numbers don’t mean much to me. Let’s keep it rollin’. Rest our main guys in blowouts. Let’s not try to fix what ain’t broke. We’ve got 3 more warmups against Cavs-Magic to figure out what works against them. Let’s use those to learn and focus on getting a 2 seed for the playoffs. Second half will be fun. Looking forward to it. Nothing like going to The Factory for a playoff game.
matt r
February 15th, 2010
11:10 am
Brad Childress is still learning clock management… no word on his jump shot.
Opinion
February 15th, 2010
11:13 am
Marvin, Bibby, and Johnson for Nash and Amare
GraveDigger
February 15th, 2010
11:25 am
I agree with firing Woody. Woody has topped out in terms of where he is capable of leading the Hawks. To bring in a coach to take us to the next level (winning the SE division, playing in the conference finals or playing in the nba finals) we will need to acquire a coach such as Avery Johnson, Byron Scott or Don Nelson. Heck I even think Dominique Wilkins would make an excellent player-coach at this time. Nique would do much better than Woody ever could.
Asheville Dawg
February 15th, 2010
11:34 am
This seems to be the “peak” year for the Hawks. Their return on new contracts seems to be lowered levels of play. BOOOO
d.carter
February 15th, 2010
11:41 am
Until Woody gets off of the iso train and learns that we need to be a constant pick and roll team we arent going anywere… I would however Trade Bibby, marvin, and MO for Devin Harris and YI
Without-a-clue
February 15th, 2010
11:42 am
Change of subject: This is the way people with class treat their opponents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=72OhOWFMf84
> >
The Real Hawk
February 15th, 2010
11:43 am
Be saying move Williams for at least two years even if we have to eat part of the salary. Mav’s got it done, why not us?
Daniel
February 15th, 2010
11:44 am
Mark- you “could” say that the bench is basically two guys, but that doesn’t make it true. Your own stats repudiate that fact. Oh, clearly on a night without Jamal, Joe sick and Za hurt the team did not look as deep. HMMMM… Mighty insight there. You would be right if all three of those guys or basically any three except Teague (a 20 y/o rookie pg without a jumpshot) or Collins (french fries) or RandMo (whatever) of our guys are hurt or playing subpar then we will be in trouble. Is this not a true fact for any NBA team? yeah, yeah the Lakers won without Kobe and Bynum… but everybody is looking up at them.
JabboRockefeller
February 15th, 2010
11:45 am
The Hawks show flashes of brilliance, but their inconsistency is maddening. We may get through the first round of the playoffs, but that’s about it. There’s just not a day-in-day-out 100% effort by every player. You never know when they’re gonna dominate on a given night, or sleepwalk. Certainly not championship caliber play (at this point) by any stretch…
Daniel
February 15th, 2010
11:46 am
The Real Hawk because The Mavericks had salaries they could move to help the Wizards (ie. expiring contracts) plus they were willing to take on Deshaun Stevenson contract which may come back to bite them. We don’t have any thing of value to trade (except Mo Evans).
That guy
February 15th, 2010
11:46 am
Avery Johnson is just a younger version of Woodson. He might be able to get more out of the players, but he is still a defense first coach without a lot of offensive imagination.
Byron Scott, I can’t really comment about. Did as good with the Hornets as I think possible, but is he really that much of an improvement over Woodson?
Don Nelson might bring a more up tempo styled offense to the Hawks, but nobody would play any defense. The cold shooting spells this team is inclined to go through doesn’t seem to fit Nelson’s style.
And Nique? Seriously dude?
The Hawks have shown they can compete with anyone except for the Cavs and Magic. Get a defensive center on the squad and this team is more likely in the championship conversation. Otherwise, they have pretty much reached their pinnacle.
I like JJ, but he won’t bring a championship on his own. I say let JJ walk and go after Bosh or Staudamire. Either one with Al and Smoove would be a scary frontcourt for at least 4 or 5 years.
Hawk n the Ham
February 15th, 2010
11:49 am
As said on MC’s blog…..
The Hawks need to fight for the #2 spot in the east to have a chance at making the conference finals.
Personel wise, the Hawks are going to run with this team and make no changes. The next step forward is game planning against the Magic. We can play with the Cavs, just need to ‘finish’ those games. Woody needs to get creative on how to get Dwight Howard in foul trouble early in games, then we have a shot at the Magic.
Come on Woody, think, think……
Opinion
February 15th, 2010
11:49 am
I hear Paul Hewitt’s available
David Smith
February 15th, 2010
11:50 am
I thought Woody would have given Teague more playing time than he has but, he predictably has tripped over his own feet yet again. We continue to not have a cohesive bench unit because Woody is still playing favorites instead of developing roles for his bench players and it’s going to hurt us again going into the playoffs.
d.carter
February 15th, 2010
11:51 am
Are you kidding Avery Johnson is a 10x better offensive coach than woody… That isnt saying much considering that Woody is the worst offensive coach in NBA hitory
d.carter
February 15th, 2010
11:52 am
Hell Paul Hewitts offense is better than woodys
Hawk n the Ham
February 15th, 2010
11:54 am
@ That Guy
Don Nelson …. more uptempo? The Hawks only offense is playing good D and pushing up court. We have no half court game. Don’t know how to get more uptempo.
And you can’t put Amar’e and defensive center in the same sentance. Man has no defense. Last I checked Horford (Mr. out of position) made All Star as a center. That should tell you about what else is available around the league.
Daniel
February 15th, 2010
12:05 pm
Enter your comments here
O'Brien
February 15th, 2010
12:20 pm
Mark,
Another thing to consider. Although we have owned the Celtics, they’re probable looking to make a move before the deadline, so the same Celtics team we beat up on might not be the same one we would face in the playoffs anyway.
The Cavs are looking to upgrade, and although they might have Chemistry issues if they do, they have enough time to gel for the playoffs. And we struggle mightily against the Magic (with no adjustments from Woody).
And to think coming into this year, we were supposed to have been a deep team. The problem is Woody has not done a good job of coaching these players up, and then when they’ve gotten time, they have not produced.
Stan VG said the Hawks have not faced any adversity this year, and he’s right. We’ve been healthy except for the last Miami game. I would to see how we would respond if somebody got hurt.
Hopefully we can turn it aound this second half.
Rob
February 15th, 2010
12:21 pm
looked at the last two years playoffs game 6 and 7’s. 2008 are bench was just Zaza and Childress. 2009 was Zaza and Flip Murry. 2010 is Zaza and Crawford. Losing Josh Childress was a bigger blow that we would have ever known. Does Woodson not know how to use his bench? Would Ty Lawson have been a better pickup than Teague? or would woodson have let him rot on the bench too?
Dante Fitzgerald
February 15th, 2010
12:23 pm
Fire Mike Woodson!!!
Ken Strickland
February 15th, 2010
12:25 pm
WOW, for a long time CLYDE and I appeared to be the lone voices in the wilderness when it came to Woodson. But I can see there are others who have seen the light. Woodson has definitely reached his PETER PRINCIPLE and has taken this team as far as he’s capable of taking them. If fact, he’s preventing them for going as far as they’re capable of going.
To beat Orlando, we have to use strategy and adjustments or changes, which completely goes against Woodsons coaching approach. We need to create matchup problems for Orlando, like playing Smoove to SF, RMorris at PF and Teague at PG. Those adjustments would give us more speed and DEF at PG, more size and inside scoring ability at PF and SF. It would also force DHoward to provide more help DEF to both forwards.
Against Cleveland, Woodson has to get it through his thick, stubborn head that they’re too big and good defensively to continue trying to compete with them down the stretch using ISO Joe and Crawford. Woodson must realize the need to continue running the same OFF down the stretch that kept us in the gm the 1st 3 qtrs. You WOODY LOVERS can defend him all you want, but some of the things he continues to do, and allows the team and certain players to continue doing is DOWNRIGHT STUPID, and continues to fail.
tjhook
February 15th, 2010
12:26 pm
Rick Sund needs to put in a request to interview Eric Mussleman. He was a rising coach until he got a DUI a few years ago. He is a fiery coach with strong offensive strategies. He also was an assistant coach for the Hawks earlier in the decade. The Hawks need someone who knows how to employ two and three-man offensive attacks which will allow our athletic players to get one-on-one matchups with opposing defenders.
Harpie
February 15th, 2010
12:32 pm
The Hawks are going nowhere fast, with Woodson as coach. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
JeJe
February 15th, 2010
12:34 pm
It’s really annoying to see other teams load up on bigs and we are stuck with the bare chicken bones. Does Dallas really now have Dampier/Haywood? I would kill for a player who will commit a hard foul and put a player on the ground. Even if Dampier semi-sucks/is average/overpaid, the guy will protect his teammates and the basket.
We are a soft basketball team. That’s the difference between ORL/ATL and Bos/CLE. Boston and Cleveland have rugged players who commit hard fouls, pick up technical fouls to psychologically mess with you (Delonte), and who look out for each other. We have no players on our team who scare opposing teams besides Jamal. Joe is good, but he doesn’t make other teams shake in fear.
We need someone like Ron Artest at the 3 who will scare other teams and bring the fear factor.
WE ARE A SOFT BASKETBALL TEAM. THAT WILL BE THIS TEAM’S DEMISE IN THE PLAYOFFS. WE ARE NOT UNDERTALENTED, BUT WE HAVE NO ONE TO COMMIT THE HARD FOUL. I’VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR OVER A YEAR NOW. WE NEED TO OVERPAY IF WE MUST TO GET SOMEONE LIKE HAYWOOD–SOMEONE WHO WILL PUT A PLAYER ON THE GROUND. For example, when Delonte dunked on Smoove a few months ago, where was the return favor from one of our players? Are we just going to let the elite teams clown us?
I still think Boston would beat us in a 7 game series, because it’s all about adjustments, and I FEAR Paul Pierce and Rondo. We have no one on our team that other teams fear that much. Perkins scares me, watching him clog the lane. Horford is soft, Smoove is soft, Bibby sucks, Marvin is trash.
We need to get rid of Marvin somehow immediately
SaintSparky
February 15th, 2010
12:36 pm
Get Marcus Camby ! This would really strengthen the Hawks down in the post to give them a chance against Cleveland and Orlando. And maybe the Clippers are dumn enough to take Williams out of our hands. Boy, what a mistake to give him an extension, espcially in that magnitude ! They just don’t want to admit that drafting him was a big blunder as we could have had Paul !
Camby and Thornton for Marvin Williams, Maurice Evans and R. Morris (works under the cap)
Astro Joe
February 15th, 2010
12:37 pm
Jason Collins is so heavy that he can only be effective against the league’s single biggest player. Joe Smith can’t hit a jumper. Zaza has regressed. Mo is a 10th man on most quality teams. Teague looks like a college junior who was the 7th PG drafted in his class. Maybe most of us (including me) were wrong. This bench is not good.
That guy
February 15th, 2010
12:47 pm
I like the idea of Mussleman. Also, I didn’t want to defend Woody in my earlier post. I just don’t see any of those guys doing anything better with this team.
Bottom line the Hawks need more of a post presence. Move Horford to the 4 where he belongs and he is a lot more valuable to this team. I’d rather have Smith off the bench than at the 3 where he would be more inclined to take outside shots. However, that would leave Marvin in the mix, and I’m definitley not supporting that.
The only other thing Hawks fans can hope for is for this ownership group to actually spend money to continue to improve this team, and I won’t believe in that until it actually happens.
JeJe
February 15th, 2010
12:52 pm
Mo’s only offense for this team is contested 3’s from the corner
jlewis
February 15th, 2010
12:53 pm
Bradley:
This article just proves you are minoring in all things but majoring in nothing, you know nothing about basketball.
JeJe
February 15th, 2010
12:55 pm
I wish we had Mark Cuban as an owner. Even though Dallas hasn’t been as successful in the playoffs over the past half-decade as they should’ve been, this guy spends whatever it takes to get better personnel in. He had the guts to get Jason Kidd, Caron Butler, Jason Terry.
Atlanta has not had a high-profile free agent signing or a star come in a trade for years.
L. Young
February 15th, 2010
12:59 pm
They have failed to address the 5 spot on the floor – the Hawks will not go anywhere until they get some size in the front court, they need Marvin Williams coming off the bench, insert a true 5 and Horford needs to go back to his natural 4 position on the floor – we get dominated by bigger teams, especially Orlando and Cleveland. A guy like Kaman, B Miller, even a Camby type would help.
They should let Joe Johnson go in the offseason and give that money to Bosh if he would come here.
RA
February 15th, 2010
1:01 pm
I hate agreeing with Bradley. Seriously, it’s number six on my top ten list of things to do, right below cleaning the gutters. But just as my wife impresses me into that service, the truth compels me agree with Bradley. We’ve got some issues. Joe Smith hasn’t been the same since he came back from that hand injury. Teague would be a lot better if Woody had played him more at the begining of the year. He should have put the ball in his hands. It would have let him get experienced at running an offense and it would have let Crawford play off the ball more. The downside is that you don’t win as many games. The upside is that Teague would have been a lot more playoff ready. It’s disappointing that Collins hasn’t worked himself into better shape, but hopefully, we’ll be able to put that girth to use in the playoffs, if nothing else to burn fouls. Maurice Evans is capable, but he needs to actually see the ball more, and he needs to be more agressive. He can score, but he’s going to have to a lot dirty work around the basic, dunks off of misses, that kinda stuff, in order to get his points. Za Za is proven player. I’m not worried about him. He’ll be there in the clutch and he’ll be a physical presence when we need one. Mario West needs to play more. He provides an element of agressiveness when the rest of the Hawks leave their’s at home. And Randolph Morris, well, they need to see if they can get anything out of him within the system. Bradley’s right, there isn’t any help coming, no blockbuster Bibby-like trade to come to the rescue. This time, what they have will have to be enough, and right now it’s about even money whether it will or won’t.
Dude from Dacula
February 15th, 2010
1:02 pm
Why is it on most NBA teams after a time out, the team comes back on the floor with an actual play designed to get a relatively easy bucket? However, with the Hawks, it’s just “ISO-Joe” every stinking time. This was on full display last night at the All Star Game. Van Gundy and Karl actually designed plays during time outs for easy buckets.
I understand that Woodson is a defensive-minded coach and all, but good grief. If the Spirit insist on giving Woodson a new contract, maybe they should look at hiring a basketball “offensive coordinator” to help design a more innovative offense. Kind of like Lawrence Frank did for Byron Scott during their New Jersey Nets tenure.
The Hawks will struggle in the first round of the playoffs regardless the opponent, and will most certainly be eliminated during the second round.
Joe
February 15th, 2010
1:05 pm
Trade Joe Johnson & Jeff Teague to Phoenix for Amare Stoudemire & Leandro Barbosa.
JeJe
February 15th, 2010
1:05 pm
Randolph Morris produced very well in his minutes this year. Why not GIVE HIM A CHANCE?
WHY DO WE GO WITH THE SAME ROTATION EVERY GAME, REGARDLESS OF IF IT’S WORKING OR NOT? WHEN’S THE LAST TIME WE PUT RANDOLPH OR COLLINS IN THE 2ND QTR WHEN DOWN BIG TO SEE IF THEY COULD PROVIDE A SPARK?
WOODSON IS A STIFF COACH, DOESN’T LISTEN TO HIS ASSISTANTS, AND WILL BE GONE IN MAY AFTER CLEVELAND SWEEPS US
Art Vandelay
February 15th, 2010
1:06 pm
Watching a few minutes of the festivities last night, I came to the realization that the Anti-Spirit Group should sell the Hawks to Usher. He’s got plenty of money to put into the team, and he’d probably be very involved and interested in fielding a winner every year. Also seems like a very bright guy and clearly a big basketball fan. Make it happen, Bradley!
For Real
February 15th, 2010
1:08 pm
Here is the trade the Hawks need to make. 3 team deal:
Hawks get: Chris Paul and James Posey
Hornets get: Tracy McGrady, ZaZa and Morris
Rockets get: Marvin Williams, Mike Bibby and Emeka Okafor
Hornets: The Hornets want to get under the cap by taking McGrady’s contract, reducing salary ZaZa 4.7 mil instead of Okafor 10.7 mil and they want to trade Chris Paul and get something in return because CP3 will not resign with them.
Rockets: The get to move McGrady’s 22.8 mil contract, get a young swing man (Marvin Williams), a vetern point guard (shooter Mike Bibby) and a young rebounder (Emeka Okafor) to go along with Yao when he returns.
Hawks: Finally gets a point guard (CP3 and he should be by April), a tough defender and 3pt shooter (James Posey) at the 3 spot and insurance whether Joe Johnson stays or goes.
Halberstram
February 15th, 2010
1:12 pm
Apologize if some of these have already been mentioned:
- Regarding point 1, I believe Bibby and Crawford are more capable pg’s than what the team when Acie Law was a rookie. Woodson was forced to play Law and isn’t with Teague.
- Regarding point 2 (with respect to Bibby), with the addition of Crawford, Bibby doesn’t have to shoot too much when he is in the game. His job is to set the offense and distribute the ball. I believe that’s why his points numbers have been going down.
BamaFan
February 15th, 2010
1:13 pm
Hey Dap01, go to link http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?Cntry=GRE&PlayerID=31080. Josh Childress is averaging 14.72 ppg, 2 apg and 4 rpg. Yea, Olympiakos got their money’s worth!
Eric
February 15th, 2010
1:19 pm
A lot of the bad bench play goes back to Mike Woodson playing his starters too many minutes. If Teague were on another team he would be in the hunt for rookie of the year. Joe Smith will be very valuable come playoffs, that’s what they got him for. Bibby shouldn’t have been signed back over Flip Murray, but all the fans wanted him back you got your wish. All things said, the Hawks are still one of the top teams in the NBA. Go Hawks!!!
Whopper Dawg
February 15th, 2010
1:20 pm
I think they still need a quality point guard, disappointed the Teague is not being allowed an opportunity to grow. Still need a quality center, Horford is fantastic, but is a four in reality. Forward spot and off guard is in great shape. Fix those two things and there ya go. Hard to fix in practice however.
t_smash
February 15th, 2010
1:21 pm
Anytime you’re “owned” by another team & make no visible changes in the coaching approach at re-match, it’s time a little “shake-up” in the coaches corner. Woodson should go …
For Real
February 15th, 2010
1:26 pm
3 team trade Hawks, Hornets and Rockets
Hawks get: CP3 and Posey (from Hornets)
Hornets get: McGray (from Rockets), ZaZa and Morris (from Hawks)
Rockets get: Marvin William and Mike Bibby (from Hawks) and Okafor (from Hornets)
Hawks starting five:
CP3
JJ
Posey
JSmith
Horford
t_smash
February 15th, 2010
1:29 pm
Has it occurred to anyone that despite the hype of the city (ATL), this is not a desired team to play for. Big bucks would get anyone here but I can’t imagine any player spitting out that politically correct response … “Well, Atlanta is a great place to play, and there is a great opportunity for my skills to assist in getting the team to that next level”.
BULLS***!
Mark Bradley
February 15th, 2010
1:31 pm
Joe Johnson’s minutes are down by about two a game, Eric. That’s the Jamal Crawford Effect.
Mark Bradley
February 15th, 2010
1:33 pm
Bibby is averaging 4.3 assists, Halberstram. That’s a career low.
Jones
February 15th, 2010
1:45 pm
It’s ironice that someone with the handle “For Real” would suggest that New Orleans would give up Chris Paul for ZaZa Pachulia, Randolph Morris, and Tracy McGrady’s contract. With respect, let’s be realistic.
Everybody needs some perspective here. Don’t you remember all those losing years? The Hawks are on pace to win over 50 games. I don’t think they can beat Orlando or Cleveland right now, but 90% of the teams in the NBA can’t. The Hawks are still headed in the right direction.
Jones
February 15th, 2010
1:46 pm
Sorry, I mistyped: I meant “ironic”, obviously.
That guy
February 15th, 2010
1:49 pm
Jones: I completely agree that this team is heading in the right direction. However, under the current construction, this team has reached its pinnacle.
ajw
February 15th, 2010
1:51 pm
I’ve seen good things from Teague on defense, but the offense can’t score when he is in there. Hence the lack of playing time.
RW
February 15th, 2010
1:58 pm
82nd!!!
#1 GT fan
February 15th, 2010
2:09 pm
Keep JJ.
Get read of Marvin and Bibby. Get young players to take there place.
GO HAWKS!!!!
BPJ
February 15th, 2010
2:17 pm
Any chance Atlanta native Dwight Howard wants to play here?
Mark Bradley
February 15th, 2010
2:19 pm
Marvin Williams is 23, #1 GT fan. Age isn’t the issue with him, I fear.
RodneyRichards
February 15th, 2010
2:23 pm
I know the two perfect trades to give the Hawks the “Larry O’Brien” trophy. (NBA Championship). #1-Trade Zsa Zsa Pachulia straight up for Chris Paul and #2-Trade Marvin Williams for Tracy McGrady. With McGrady and Paul added with our infusion of talent, an NBA title is almost guaranteed!!!
GrantP Dawg
February 15th, 2010
2:24 pm
These Hawks are a lot like the competitive Hawks of the Steve Smith/Mookie Blaylock days. They are good, but not great. They have no superstar like Lebron or Kobie to lift them. And their not the unbelievable TEAM the like of Detroit earlier in the decade. They are stuck in the middle. I personally don’t think they should max JJ. But I am afraid that is going to be the only option.
Mark Bradley
February 15th, 2010
2:26 pm
I don’t think the Hawks have an option with Joe, GrantP. He’s not Kobe Bryant, but he’s as close as the Hawks are apt to get. (Dwyane Wade’s not coming here, I’m fairly certain.)
GrantP Dawg
February 15th, 2010
2:31 pm
Mark- Which is funny, because all these athletes love to live in Atlanta, but don’t seem to want to play here. Is it the ownership issue or a coaching issue, or the lame fans issue? Combination of all probably. Does the rule still exist that allows a team to max out their own players. The Larry Bird rule I think. I bring it up because the only superstar I see coming here is Dwight Howard and only because he is from here.
dhawk
February 15th, 2010
2:53 pm
Hey Mark, did you ever consider that Joe’s assist are down, because Bibby can no longer hit a wide-open jumper? Someone has to make the shot from your pass to get credit for an assist. Which was part of your #2 concern. Earlier in the season, Joe was averaging over 5 assist/game and Bibby was on fire hitting those wide open looks he gets while playing with Joe.
tbhawksfan
February 15th, 2010
2:53 pm
Woodson shoulda already been gone. Hawks have talent, but barring a JJ trade, this will probably be the team for the next couple of seasons.
Justin
February 15th, 2010
2:54 pm
Mark,
I thnk you nailed it. These Hawks are fun to watch and could beat a lot of teams in a best of 7. Unfortunately, the Hawks are likely to play the Cavs in the 2nd round, and the Cavs look a lot better than they did in December and the Hawks look a little worse. The best shot the Hawks have is if they can pass the Magic in the division and draw the Celtics in the 2nd round. That’s the only scenario that sees them getting to the ECF, which seems the farthest that they can go in a best case scenario. Again, since the Magic have more depth I think they’ll win the division which means Cavs in round two. It has been a really good season but there’s no apparent solution in sight to get them to be legit contenders to win the East, let alone the Championship.
O'Brien
February 15th, 2010
3:05 pm
Mark,
Looking into my crystal ball, I think JJ will resign with the Hawks for $17 mil per year, 5 years guaranteed, 6th year option. And thats not a bad price.
My only concern is whether or not the Spirit will have the money to resign JJ, give Horford his extension, and offer Crawford enough money to keep him as our sixth man.
And you can’t really blame Bibby for his assists being down. Blame it on the coach and his ISOs, because JJ and Crawford dominate the ball.
AJ,
Before the season started, I thought we would be deep this year. Mo Evans and Teague looked good in the preseason, and I figured Joe Smith would be great off the bench. Evans hasn’t done much, neither has Teague, and Joe Smith’s jumper is MIA. And if they havent figured it out by now, it will be hard to get it going later in the season.
I’m still holding out hope that somehow someway, they will find a way to step it up, especially in the playoffs. Nobody thought they would take the Celtics to 7 games in the playoffs a couple seasons ago, and they did (despite being swept in the regular season).
Chris
February 15th, 2010
3:09 pm
Marvin’s numbers being down could be attributed to him being off the court more now that Jamal is in town and Josh’s steadily improving game. I also believe that ZaZa’s numbers at least scoring wise are also down due to Jamal’s influence. I agree we have no bench outside of two, which shows a major flaw in the team which could hurt us in the 2nd round of the playoffs. With a franchise who clearly has a problem with the direction of ownership, it is going to be difficult to increase the quality of depth due to lack of funds. 0-5 against the Cavs and Magic, guarantees that we will be swept again in round 2 and will again be considered outside the conference’s elite.
All I'm Saying Is...
February 15th, 2010
3:43 pm
So what you are saying is that Rick Sund tied his own hands and that’s why the Hawks can’t make a trade deadline deal? Seems like you praised Sund for re-upping those players during the off-season and now are excusing him for having done so in a way that prevents him from making the team better which you appear to be suggesting that the Hawks need to do. Your perspective is a bit twisted in this view.
Woodson is in the last year of his deal. What sense does it make for a coach in the last year of his deal to try and develop his bench? Woody is trying to win games so he has a better negotiating position for a job with the Hawks or elsewhere no matter what happens in the playoffs. That’s the price you pay when you let someone play out their contract be that person a coach or a player.
Joe is in the last year of his deal. What sense does it make for a player in the last year of his deal to take fewer shots and raise his assist total? JJ is trying to win games so he has a better negotiating position for a job with the Hawks or elsewhere no matter what happens in the playoffs. That’s the price you pay when you let someone play out their contract be that person a coach or a player.
I’ve said all along that the Hawks are the fourth best team in the East but do not possess (or do not play) the front line personnel to compete with the elite teams during the bump-and-grind, half-court game matters of the playoffs.
We either need to play Jason Collins and Al Horford together along with Josh, JJ, and Bibby (moving Marvin to the bench) and go big or go uptempo and run the floor with a three guard lineup (JJ, Bibby, and West) along with Al and Josh and Crawford first off the bench (and Marvin next—if he commits to running the floor).
LET’S GO HAWKS!
abtoal
February 15th, 2010
3:44 pm
A true center is all they need. That will put them over the top personally. They can’t stay with howard, shaq, ilgauskas, garnett. They have to get a center
KyleRichards
February 15th, 2010
3:56 pm
The Hawks should trade Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby for Amare Stoudemire. Then come back and trade Za Za Pachulia for Chris Paul. With the addition of Paul and Stoudemire the Hawks likely WONT be stopped at any time during the playoffs!
Conyers Hawk
February 15th, 2010
3:57 pm
Mark: You are right. There are a lot of areas where the Hawks need improvement by some players and changes in their game plans. I see them going no further than the 2nd round of the playoffs unless they manage to somehow win the division and get Boston instead of Cleveland in the second round. Don`t see that happening unless they learn how to beat the Magic.
All I'm Saying Is...
February 15th, 2010
4:16 pm
abtotal: I and many of us agree with you but don’t try telling Bradley that as he is convinced (because Rick Sund told him) that Al Horford is a true center. Hawks must play Collins and Al together to compensate because they can’t compete with LA (Bynum & Gasol), Denver (Nene and Kenyon Martin), Dallas (Dampier, Haywood), or any of the teams in the East that you mentioned.
KyleRichards: Are you talking about WONT be stopped at any time during the playoffs…next season because Chris Paul is injured.
KevinA
February 15th, 2010
4:56 pm
Ken Strickland has it right about Woody having no imagination and is not willing to experiment. Al matches up with many centers but with some he does not. Why not start ZaZa and bring in Rando/Collins against the big centers and save Al for the last three qt’s.
Against good teams either Al or Josh should be on the floor at all times.
Why not start Teague and burn him till hurts the team then give Bibby a shot. If either play well, gives reason for some burn for 3rd qt. If Bibby or Teague are playing well enough you could even sub JJ with Jamal to keep him from so much burn.
I don’t think our bench is as bad as they seem. They just need more opportunity to play with starters.
The idea is to have JJ/Al/Marvin/Josh and Jamal fresh for the last ten minutes. Something Woody is not good at.
Najeh Davenpoop
February 15th, 2010
5:15 pm
Good observations in this article.
Tony
February 15th, 2010
5:15 pm
I have made the same comment for some time now…the Hawks have a super talented team. A team that after the starting five are no worse than any of the playoff contenders, seriously. The suggestion that they do not have a bench and Woodson is not coaching well enough is for, hmm, “First Take”. The problem as I have stated before is the number 5 spot. We get tossed around like a cat with a canary (Hawk) in its mouth when playing Orlando and Cleveland. We’re not even really in those ball games. Make use of this trade deadline and grab a center. I have suggested a look at Diop in Charlotte to fill that 5 spot. With a trade for someone like Diop, the Hawks would not have to spend any money (if Marvin is in the equation, for example). Plus, they will have a real experienced presence in the middle. Let’s go Mr. Sund, work some magic. Let’s Go Hawks!
BirdDawg
February 15th, 2010
8:28 pm
3 of the 5 flaws can all be attributed to their head coach. Rick Sund, if you care about this team and it’s fans, fire Mike Woodson, Hire Byron Scott and watch the magic of a championship run. The Hawks have the talent, now let’s get a coach that knows how to use it.
Tony
February 15th, 2010
9:11 pm
Let’s not knock Coach Woodson right yet. He has improved this team’s record in each season that he has been here. The problem is that while trying to build a team of support players, management wasted an opportunity to find a good, effective center. Woodson’s job has been none short of admirable. It is easy to blame the coach, but Atlanta has one of the best records in the NBA. Hmmm. Coaching is not the issue.
Jeff
February 15th, 2010
9:23 pm
Mark — good piece… not the most pleasant thing to read as a Hawks fan, but I think you’re right on target with some of this team’s weaknesses.
BirdDawg, you make an EXCELLENT point. Scott or Avery Johnson could do WONDERS with this roster… I think they could instill a little more fire and defensive commitment in them, and I think they could take us deep into the playoffs.
That being said… my fear as an Atlanta fan is that this team may have hit its ceiling. Unless we can compete with the Orlandos, Clevelands, Lakers and Spurs of the NBA, we may be stuck like our mid-1980s Hawks teams were: capable of going 50-32 every year, getting a 2 or 3 or 4 seed in the Eastern Conference, but losing in the conference semis or finals every year becuase we run into a team we just CAN’T beat.
I hope that Sund, Woodson and Co. can find an answer… but with our contract situations, we may not have any options other than telling our players to “Play harder, bust your butts on defense and play over your heads when we get to the postseason.”
All that being said, it’s MUCH more fun to watch Hawks basketball in Feb. and March when it actually MEANS something… in past years, going 23-59 every year, we were out of it by Christmas. Go Hawks!!!
Tony
February 15th, 2010
9:36 pm
Sometimes it is not good to listen to ESPN…Byron Scott and Avery Johnson are not coaching right now…Woodson is. Again, it is easy to blame the coach, but management bears some responsibility. There are a couple of things that you sports fans fail to realize: 1 and 2) you cannot win a championship without a true point, and a true center…period. And we have a piece missing. That is all…Horford, as talented as he is, is not a center! Grab a good physical center, and the Hawks are at least in the East finals. Go Hawks!
Tony
February 15th, 2010
9:46 pm
Mark, if you can whisper to one of the front office guys…we need a center!
Hawker
February 15th, 2010
9:50 pm
The hawks will get upset in the first round of the playoffs–bank on it. They have no heart or intelligence in the big games.
hawkfan
February 15th, 2010
9:54 pm
OK I think I’ve heard this twice now on this blog … “trade Za Za straight-up for Chris Paul”???? hahahaha
Who in the world would trade a mediocre back-up center for a young, All-NBA PG? Camon people, you cannot be serious. Let’s keep these trade scenarios remotely realistic at least.
As for Mark B,
You’ve seemed to flip-flop on Wody. Few months ago, you were raving about Woodson and his ability to hold the team together and how he deserved to coach the Hawks long-term etc etc. Few weeks ago, you even said that he was “well regarded” around the league.
Today, you raise five critical issues, all of which are very VALID, but fail to mention that they largely stem from Woodson’s ineptitude. Lets recap:
1. Mismanagement of bench minutes
2. Lack of player development, in this case, Marvin Williams, but also Jeff Teague.
4. Poor shot selection and decision making by your star player
5. Lack of in-game adjustments and overall strategy adjustments
So maybe you are not a Woodson fan after all … “kudos” to you Mark.
hawkfan
February 15th, 2010
10:02 pm
Oh .. and here is the easiest way for the Hawks to win an NBA Title:
Bring Dwight Howard to the Hawks AT ALL COSTS. He will dominate the paint and the league in general for many years to come, much like Shaq did in his prime. IMHO, all the Hawks players are expendable compared to Dwight. The fact that he is an Atlanta native should give the city some hope of acquiring him, however remote that may be.
Snowman
February 16th, 2010
12:23 am
Jones thank you, thank you, thank you!!! “For Real” I like your attempt at that trade however I don’t think so (smile)…
Now JUST stop it people…just stop it!!! Good observations Mark! You folks who ALWAYS want to kick or fire Woodson please stop it!!! Come on (Avery Johnson and Byron Scott laughable!!!), we get as much out of this team as we possibly can, period (how are the guys who Woodson did not play doing after they left, Stoudamire, AC Law, Sheldon Williams, Solomon Jones, even Childress, they could not play when they were here and they can’t play elsewhere…they are bums!!!!…Woodson would play them if they could play!!!!!!!…HELLO!!!!). We just don’t have enough talent seriously!!! Coach Woodson is one of the few coaches in this league that could have gotten the success out of this bunch as he has.
Mark just mentioned all three players signed this summer and all are playing a bit worst this year vs. last, is that the coaches fault? Every other team ahead of us (except Orlando) in the East is talking about adding a piece or two for the stretch run, are we? Is that coaches fault? I live in DC and you are going to tell me our Hawks could not have used Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood, as Ocho Cinco would say “Child PLEASE!!!” (smile).
Dallas did not give up much to get those two either. I would like to see our chances against the East with Caron and Brendan. We need to make a move and not a huge one at that. We need a BIG desperately and a solid three off the bench like a Posey from a couple of years ago or T. Prince. I would even take a Jamenson for Marvin and Mo. We need just a little bit more on this team or 3rd/4th is about the BEST we can ask for.
Like Jones (an earlier blogger) said “I don’t think they can beat Orlando or Cleveland right now, but 90% of the teams in the NBA can’t. The Hawks are still headed in the right direction”.
Finally, if their is finger pointing, and I don’t know why he gets a pass all the time from the bloggers and Woody gets killed, is The GM!!! Get Woody some more help, P-L-E-A-S-E!!! Here a couple of names that were mentioned earlier in this exchange that would be good fits for our Hawks (Camby, Ben Wallace, Haywood, Jamenson even a T. Prince) just some quick thoughts and good article Mark although the 5 issues I think are a talent issue and thus a GM problem vs. a coaches one.
Booooo!!!! To Birddawg, T Smash, Ken Strickland (what else is new), Grave Digger, Jamaliver and others!!! Yeahhh to Tony (bravo!!!), SaintSparky, JeJe, and Jones and others!!! Love the Hawks and coach Woodson has done a great job over the 6 years he has been here (remember we use to be the Clippers..smile)!!!!
Terrell
February 16th, 2010
12:41 am
Jamaaliver,
Hate to burst your bubble but Rick Carlisle was the coach after Larry Brown
MitchC
February 16th, 2010
6:22 am
This Hawks run will turn out to be just like the ones in the mid to late 80s and mid 90s, Mark. Remember how the Hawks of the 80s, with all their talent, Nique, Doc, Willis, etc, would win 50 plus games every regular season, and fold against the likes of the Pistons and Celtics in the playoffs? Those teams won titles. The Hawks never did during that period. Alas, the 80s Hawks were just a good team, who couldnt win the big games.
It appears the same is true during this Hawk run. 0-5 against the Cavs and Orlando is a major eye opener. One of those teams, (My guess the Cavs, because Lebron will be motivated before leaving Cleveland) are the teams to beat if the Hawks had designs on playing the Lakers for a title.
The Hawks will probably finish with a win total in the mid to high 50s, win round one, and lose round two. Then, the question becomes, where does this team go next, when they fail to take the “next step” this year?
All I'm Saying Is...
February 16th, 2010
9:04 am
hawkfan: I hear you and of course we’d love to have Dwight but he would have to
a) Sour on Orlando (despite getting to the NBA Finals),
b) Not sign an extension (and he’d get a max deal from Orlando if he did),
c) Play out his current deal, and
d) Choose to sign a one year contract with us so he could then get a max deal from the Hawks.
Now I’m not saying this is impossible (Shaq left Orlando for LA after taking them to the NBA Finals), especially when the annoying panic-attack prone Stan Van Gundy as your coach, but highly unlikely primarily because Orlando has one of the best General Managers in the business who would move heaven and earth and easily fire Van Gundy to keep Dwight happy.
The Hawks of the 80s had a window of opportunity to win a title in the 1986-1989 period as Boston aged and before Detroit and Chicago matured but our superstar was Dominique and he played hard but never elevated his team like Jordan and Isaiah did. Things are tougher now for the Hawks especially if Dwight and LeBron stay with their current teams. However flukes can happen and teams like the Houston Rockets made it to the NBA Finals back in the Lakers glory years with Magic, et. al.
LET’S GO HAWKS!
All I'm Saying Is...
February 16th, 2010
9:06 am
Terrell: Rick Carlisle was the coach BEFORE Larry Brown. The current Wizards coach and former T-Wolves coach Flip Saunders was the coach after Larry Brown.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
9:51 am
Thanks Snowman…but it appears that Mark is just being a journalist and inspiring the masses with his commentary…kudos to Mark again! Good topic as you can see. But much of the conversation would end if those who have really watched the Hawks would see that they have a very good team. What most fail to realize again is that the Hawks do not have a good big man, plain and simple. That is the difference maker in games played against the Cavs and Magic, and other lesser teams to be frank. Whoever said that the Hawks dont have a bench…how do you think that they have the 3rd best record in the East…(repeat that)…With the addition of a starting big man, the Hawks get inside presence that stops those who have repeated driven to the basket predominately unchallenged. This also frees up Joe, Josh, Horford, Crawf, etc. We are a true big man away from the title, trust me! Go Hawks!
ICECOLD
February 16th, 2010
10:34 am
lets look at the facts
1. for years people been saying that the hawks need a big man, its not that easy. the hawks been trying to get a big man since they drafted sheldon williams. big men and point guards, but the fact is that all the elite big men out there are already set on where they are and we do not have anybody that another team might want to get a big man thats good enough to guard shaq or howard. thats what jason collins was for and he is still out of shape.. he sucks… hawks should drop him and add sillers ( the big man that was at the begining of traing camp ) at least they can try to develope him as a big man
2. coach mike woodson is a decent coach. his team is one of the best in the league and had two players as all-stars. the cavs only had one. magic only had one. and josh smith should have been one too.
3. joe johnson only isolates when he knows he has too. he knows what he is doing. he has been a all-star four times and his team has been winning so he knows what it takes to win. he was sick that last game. he had the flu and there was no crawford.
4. bibby minutes are down so he doesnt get into the rythm of the game like he use too. so yeah he is missing more shots then usual. but he is still mike bibby. the point guard who led the hawks to the playoffs the last two years. hawks went through (acie law, speedie claxton, anthony johnson. tyrone lue, and jason terry) jus to find the point guard that was good enough to do that. so he deserve a contract and he deserves to stay a starter. ( he should play five or six more minutes though).
4. marvin williams doesnt have to be as big as a scoring threat as people keep saying. you have 4 scorers that could have been a all-star this year thats doing all the scoring. he goes in and play good deffense on teams best players most of the time. and if he get 10 or 12 points, thats also good. but he doesnt have too.
5. hawks have plenty of money to sign joe johnson next year. thats not a problem.. he wants a ring just like every other player in the league.. he is just making sure the hawks really want rings too.
those are the facts… ( also, the hawks should trade mo evens, zaza, and marvin for amare.. move josh smith to small forward, move horford to power foward. that front court can guard dwight and we wont slack for scoring becuase jamal can come in and do his thing and we still will have two good big men in at all times. and sign sillers)
jc_dawgs
February 16th, 2010
11:16 am
Too much pessimism. This is a very good team. Woodson’s team has gotten better each and every year and they are closing the gap with NBA’s elite teams. They need to keep this team together.
If you can’t keep Joe…for God sakes make sure you replace him with an elite player or at least 2 great offensive weapons. If you want to have any chance of winning a championship…it will go right down the drain if we lose Johnson and fail to get an equivalent offensive replacement.
Sautee
February 16th, 2010
12:12 pm
“What most fail to realize again is that the Hawks do not have a good big man, plain and simple.”
Which “most” do you mean Tony? Certainly not the Head Coaches of the NBA.
THEY voted Horford as the second best center in the East. Who are these “most” that you mention that somehow know better than these Head Coaches?
Or do those ill-informed head Coaches just have NO IDEA what they did?
rusty
February 16th, 2010
12:58 pm
the hawks dont have all they need to go all the way,but i would like to see what this team
could do with a good coach. our offense is a joke,dribble & shoot jump shots. joe shuts down all tempo & is very selfish,folds under pressure & takes too many bad shots. the team
has no ball movement & every body takes poor shots,it seemsthat they feel that they will not get the ball back. woody has no real control,does not have any idea of substitution. i wood even like to see dominque coach rather than woody.
PaddyWagon
February 16th, 2010
1:06 pm
The Hawks should attempt to acquire Amare Stoudemire (the missing piece). Amare will help the Hawks get past Cleveland and Orlando in the playoffs, teams who use their physical size to rough up the Hawks. Amare can bang with Howard and LaBron. The acquisition of Amare Stoudemire is what is standing in the way of the Hawks hoisting the “Larry O’Brien trophy”.
tito jackson
February 16th, 2010
1:30 pm
It’s the ownership, they don’t want to spend money, and why all hate on the coach so much he’s not the problem, and YALL acting like the hawks got the worst record like they are the nets or something, and this the best there been since I can’t remember, and the reason there good is because a player like Joe Johnson came In, and YALL talking about wade, everytime joe play against wade he shuts him down, look what he did to him in the playoffs. If u can remember I’m sure its on YouTube, or nba.com
AceDawg
February 16th, 2010
1:50 pm
Hawks have concerns in facing the Magic or Cavs, but otherwise this talk of production going down with other players is understandable when you add a new major scorer in Jamal Crawford. Many points here are weak – Teague would get less minutes then AC Law because of the Hawks strong starting 5 and Crawford. Zaza will lose production when playing less and giving a few minutes to Joe Smith. Bibby loses production because of Crawford more than anyone else.
We just have to hope ATL can improve against the Magic and Cavs in a seven game series where they can get used to the teams. It does seem like Atlanta usually plays the Magic after a difficult game right before. If they are rested, they may do better.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
Ice, nice comment, but here we see that Camby was just traded. There are some big men available. Charlotte has Diop whom I have recommended for the size and exp and price. We just need the presence that will provide 10pts, 10-12 reb’s. Like you said we have some shooters…they just cant get loose because teams defending Atlanta can just play zone or basically the perimeter. It sometimes backfires but not in the case of the teams we need to beat. Another option is just to force Zsa Zsa, Morris, or Collins into the center position and make them play like the pros they are. If they arent going to contribute every night at such a needed position, then what is their role (Sund). Think about it, we have 3 7fters! I do not propose getting rid of Mo Evans, West, or Crawford, or Teague. Teague is more valuable than people realize at the moment. He is just stuck behind Crawf and Bibby. Mo is still effective with the 3, and West is a good defender off the bench. (beating a familiar drum) We need a Big man! Let’s Go Hawks!
CinderellaStevenson
February 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
I think the Hawks do have what it takes to go all the way. The ONLY thing missing from the hawks is BELIEF IN THEMSELVES. The Hawks STILL have a low self-image in terms of how good they think they are. The Hawks are athletic have speed and quickness, are good at rebounding and commit few turnovers, get steals and assists; surely the ingredients for success. But the Hawks dont think they are among the NBAs elite because every time they play an elite team: Denver, Lakers, Magic, Cavs, etc. all except Boston, the Hawks let the other team get miles ahead of them, then try to play catch up the rest of the way. When the Hawks are rested and are playing well–it doesnt matter who is on the Hawks schedule–THEY WILL WIN. A case in point, last season the Lakers came into Phillips late in the year, but the Hawks were ready for them. The Hawks trashed the Lakers (the eventual world champions) and made it look incredibly easy, winning by double digits. They did that with the current group that they have. They trounced the lakers without an amare stoudemire. The Hawks are good enough to be champions but until they believe it themselves; they will continue to play like doormats and lose games that they should win handily.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
Here’s my problem with getting a “true” big man — Diop, say: If you play him at 5, then Horford moves at 4, and Horford — contrary to popular belief — would NOT have been an All-Star at that position. And then Josh Smith moves to 3. Do you really want him on the perimeter?
Tony
February 16th, 2010
2:53 pm
Sautee,
The most are those who contend that the Hawks need another shooter. Horford is playing out of position but was recognized for doing a good job there. That does not negate the fact that they need a legitimate no. 5. Other coaches around the league are not concerned with what’s good for Atlanta anyway. Do you mean he is more deserving than Shaq, Bogut, or even Brook Lopez? This has nothing to do with the other coaches in the league. It has everything to do with Hawks management and what they are going to do to get to the next level.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
Thanks Mark. Yes, Josh on the perimeter doesnt mean that he cant fulfill that position. He wants to be more of an outside player anyway. This will allow him the opportunity to develop that part of his game but not limit the team at the same time. Horford is an exceptionally talented player and who knows, he may as well have deserved a spot on the All-Star team. Who knows? But the All-Star selection is not as important as being in position to win a championship. I think the Hawks are much more versatile with a defensive center in position…nothing against Horford at all.
LukeMerriman
February 16th, 2010
3:11 pm
The folks who say that Woody doesnt have the offense running smoothly, should go back and look at the tape of last Fridays, Hawks/Chicago Bulls game. That is the best game I have ever seen the Hawks for running their offense. They ran it brilliantly and were never challenged by the bulls. This is the same bulls team that beat the Hawks in ot earlier in the season when the Hawks blew a 24 point lead, due to a stagnant running offense after the Hawks had built a comfortable lead. The Hawks are learning to play offense and have done an incredible job of getting better with a ton of plays set up for Josh Smith, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford and others. The offense used to be “GIVE THE BALL TO JOE JOHNSON AND CLEAR OUT AND WATCH HIM WORK”. Now almost everyone is getting involved thus making the Hawks stronger and accounting for the Hawks steller record so far.
NickDiamond
February 16th, 2010
3:37 pm
rusty: you hit the nail on the head. Dominique should come back and play until he’s 60. Nique has ALWAYS kept himself in tremendous shape and is stil probably better than 90% of the players out there now. If Nique comes back and coaches as a player-coach, he’ll lead this team to a championship, the same way that Bill Russell did that for the Celtics decades ago. Dominique if you are out there, chime in on these blogs of those who would welcome your return. It would be great to see you teach Josh Smith a few tricks.
FeudFinder
February 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
The Hawks needs a very good and notable center who can compete against other centers in the league without getting in foul trouble early. Al is good but not enough to go against D. Howard. Collins is good but he can only come from the bench.
Nique #21
February 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
I gave you all I got when I was younger. Y ‘all shipped me away. I have too much Heineken in my belly now.
BirdDawg
February 16th, 2010
5:05 pm
To all these people that are clamoring for a true center to “magically” lift the Hawks to an NBA championship, consider this: several teams throughout history have proven(i.e. Jordan’s Bulls, Isaiah Pistons, Rip’s Pistons, heck even Kobe’s Lakers) that you can win without a true center as long as you have a talented team and a coach that knows how to get the best out of that team. The Hawks have a talented team. They don’t have a coach that knows how to use it. A big, talented center may help, but does not guarantee a championship. Last I checked, Dwight Howard, the most talented center in the league still hasn’t won a championship. In fact, his Magic were beaten by the Lakers in the Finals who didn’t have a center anywhere near his caliber. Shaquille O’neal, maybe the most dominant center ever, only won championships when he was on teams with Hall of Fame level coaches and superstar shooting guards. Bottom line, this team has improved through maturation and familiarity with each other. Woodson hasn’t changed his coaching philosophy or approach one bit since he’s been here. The Hawks have hit their ceiling with Woodson. It’s time to get a coach that can take them further. I push for Byron Scott because his basketball pedigree and coaching knowledge shows itself during games. He won coach of the year with a team far less talented than the Hawks have right now. This team will not go any further than they already have with Woodson unless he makes drastic changes to the way he coaches and he has shown repeatedly that he is unwilling or unable to do that.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:32 pm
Mark ,
I always love blogs like these.
They are usually so full of brilliant ideas and suggestions.
Some of the best include the idea that Woody is a great coach and the fact that the Hawks can’t do better is really the GM’s fault. You know, the guy who can’t make a move without 9 bean counters (or is it 7 these days?) second guessing his every move and inquiring not only will this cost $4 dollars more than the current payroll, but why should it cost $4 dollars more?
Here’s another one: the same person who will consistently bash Josh Smith, one of the unequivocally best players on a good Hawks team this year, will also suggest that we give Randolph Morris more minutes. That person also likes the idea of relegating Smith to the bench, and at the small forward spot, at that. Brilliant. So let’s take our second best rebounder, third best assist guy, best shot-blocker and game-changer defender, and third highest scorer…and put him on the bench. Not only that, but when he does come into the game, put him totally out of position to do what he does best on both offense and defense. I guess if my blog handle was comprised of two letters repeating themselves, I’d come up with the same stuff….
Ah yes, and we need a real center. The one we have to made the all-star team while playing out of position and while undersized isn’t nearly good enough. Clearly every NBA coach has had a lobotomy and highly overrated Al Horford. Let’s get the record straight: The Hawks need a tough guy to play BACKUP center, and can play minutes at the 5 spot while Horford moves to the 4, if the Hawks want or need to go big. Zaza fills that role from time to time against some teams, but he’s not the ticket. A more mobile, tougher goon would fill the bill nicely. Unfortunately, we’ve gotten ourselves into a position where we can’t trade anything of value for it without losing something we need. But, that’s what happens when your backup pg doesn’t get minutes, your starting pg is a shell of what he was LAST year, one of your backup shooting guards can’t shoot, and the other one can’t play all that great with Joe because he does what Joe does….only 3 gears faster.
Personally, I think the Hawks are a pretty dang good team. And all of this confusion of what Sund has done is nothing but a grand conspiracy to fire Woody. No really, it is. You can even ask Snowman, who will admit to it when he’s not on his meds. Seriously.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:33 pm
Just kidding, Snowman . About the meds, that is.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:50 pm
But he’s shocked, Mark. Flabbergasted, even. Never had your flabber gasted? Well, I guess not, being a slim fellow who’s in good shape. Now thick’uns like myself…
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
11:53 pm
Sorry, Big Ray, that comment was meant for a different post. (Obviously.)
Me, I’m shocked and flabbergasted on an hourly basis.
Snowman
February 17th, 2010
12:12 am
Thanks Big Ray, so someone is reading my non-sense huh (smile)!!! I am not on Meds however I do like the Hawks and coach Woodson and I also know it’s deal making time so Mr. GM, getsta making a deal (hurry, we have already lost Haywood, Butler and Camby)…smile!!!
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:06 am
josh is a natural small forward. he can step out there ( not the three point line ) and take the mid range shot if he has too.. but basically you would have a 3 players in the game at all time that can back anybody down. and if josh smith was playing the 3, the perimeter pick and roll would be perfect. then you can just throw the alley when josh smith roll after horford ( the slashing power forward ) sets that back pick. it would be perfect. then if you need some fire power, you bring Crawford off the bench and move Joe Johnson to small forward. then three pointers raining from Bibby, Joe, and Jamal. it would all work out. and no lack on defense, because the hawks do the rotation defense thing. getting a legit big man would improve the starting five a whole lot. !!!! especially with amare stademire, a run and gun team like the hawks would be perfect for him. then bibby would really average about 8 assist and people would get off his back about scoring. every gap would be feeled in. the bench would go to being three deep though ( jamal, teague, and joe smith in the play offs) west can play defense when needed, ( this is if moe, marvin, and zaza got traded) so we would need to use collins a little bit..
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:12 am
i think Atlanta as a whole city gets too attached to players and to sports team. somebody will be disappointed if the hawks did make some moves before the trade deadline. its still some hawks fans mad that josh childress and flip Murray not on the team. and sunds trying to keep his fans, so he dont wanna part from none of the main players. but to get the best people , u have to trade one of the starters, and Joe josh and horford is never going any where if it is up to the hawks!!!
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:20 am
horford would be a all-star either way.. he is just plain out good.. he could do even more at power forward. playing center limits him to what he really can do.. i mean that spot up shot he has seems to never miss
and thank you tony.. but who would you trade for those big men you see… what would other teams possibly want that we are trully willing to give up.. NOBODY!!
but the HAWKS are a real good team.. we talkin about them like they are under five hundred or in a fight for the play offs or something.. they are going to be alright.. they made it this far despite the odds.. i believe they can win it this year.. i really think no team can beat them in a seven game series. except the magics.. avoid them and the sky is the limit
E43
February 17th, 2010
3:20 am
most of d hawks problems listed can vanish if joe+jamal don’t take the court together. they’ve run away from the idea that jamal was to be instant offense when JOE WAS OUT OF THE GAME. it messes up everyone because your forcing the rotation into playing their secondary positions. then teague and bibby are stuck out the gameplan because they play only 1 position.bibby teague marvin and zaza may not be playing fantastic but the game-plan+depth chart just doesnt do them any favors. its the price we pay for handing everything to our 2guards. Were winning now but eventually teams will figure us out like the Thunder.
Big Ray
February 17th, 2010
5:09 am
Mark ,
Yeah, I messed that one up. I don’t know how I managed to make that comment on the wrong blog.
Snowman ,
Your nonsense is as good as anybody else’s!
Sautee
February 17th, 2010
8:57 am
Tony,
You said this in regard to Horford:
“Other coaches around the league are not concerned with what’s good for Atlanta anyway. Do you mean he is more deserving than Shaq, Bogut, or even Brook Lopez?”
Tony, when the coaches voted for the All-Star team they were told: Pick one player for each position and two players at large. You may not vote for one of your own players.
Al was the only center picked (David Lee was added later, when Iverson dropped out). The coaches weren’t asked “How can the Hawks improve”, they were asked which players are playing best at their positions. The said Al at center over Shaq, Lopez, Bogut AND Lee. Yes, they thought Al was more deserving.
That said, I’ve been calling for a “Camby type” off the bench for two years now.
CrowlerWilkinson
February 17th, 2010
2:11 pm
The Hawks now have four #1 scorers on their team. Smoove, JJ, Horford and Crawford; a really good problem to have. Actually if you count Marvin Williams they have 5, but Marvin is pretty much automatic on making layups, but thats all you can count on him for. The Hawks SHOULD develop plays for those 4 guys and expand the scope of their offense, similarly to how the Orlando Magic run plays for Dwight Howard and their scorers. The Hawks are close to being a championship calibre ballclub and it depends on how well they develop in the second half.
Turth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
5:02 pm
I have to agree with most of the rational guys on this site, the hawks need a big man who is a defense force or an unstoppable offensive weapon. Id trade Whoreford for Stoudamire any day of the week and Id take Lopez or Camby over Whoreford all day long.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
7:11 pm
Snowman you posts are always on point and you are very knowledgeable. Perhaps Ray was jealous of your obvious talent. There is that side of him. – LOL
Big Ray
February 17th, 2010
10:42 pm
Truth-Serum ,
Tell ya what. Tell me what your talent is, then I’ll tell you whether or not I’m jealous. Hard to be jealous of something when I am not aware of its existence. Wait, is it the ability to post under multiple names on different computers? You’re right, I can’t match you on that one….
Big Ray
February 18th, 2010
12:11 am
Hmmmm. It seems that our itty bitty little all-star center is scoring at will tonight against the Clippers and their 7′1″ all-star center. 5 minutes left in the third quarter and Horford has 24 points already. 9 for 11 from the field. 6 of 7 from the line. Yeah, we definitely need a much better guy than this one…
Mark Bradley
February 18th, 2010
12:48 am
Laughing out loud, Big Ray.
Snowman
February 18th, 2010
2:59 am
BirdDawg, BirdDawg, BirdDawg (I knew I should not have stopped by the computer on my way to bed to check the blog)!!!! Ok, here we go 1) Jordan is one of top 3 greatest players of all-time and played with Scottie Pippen, one of the top 50 of all-time and Dennis Rodman (Just a bad analogy!!!). Now they may not of had a dominate center however they did have several quality 7fter’s on all of the team (Wennington/Cartwright to name a couple) and Horace Grant (All-Star) on half of the championships.
2) What in the Heck do you think Pau Gasol is for the Lakers (H-E-L-L-O!!!)? he is a 7fter, Bynum is a 7fter too and again Kobe is one of the BEST players all-time as well. How did Kobe do when he did not have Shaq or Gasol? How far would the Hawks go with Gasol?
3) Orlando was in the finals, despite one heckuva season the Cavs had last year because of Dwight Howard (and a helluva roster). The Cavs went and acquired Shaq because of how they were exposed in the playoffs last year in the middle!!! How would the Hawks do this year or last if we had Shaq in the playoffs even at this point in his career?
Now you can go out and get Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Pop, even John Wooden or Bob Knight and they would not get he Hawks ahead of Cleveland and Orlando they way the Hawks are configured (period!)!!!! Now that would be harder to do than get a piece or two to help coach Woodson get Atlanta to the next step. You see what Cleveland just did with Antwann and they have the BEST record in basketball.
This is again NOT a Mike Woodson problem because in spite of all of the blunders (previous drafts, Sheldon Williams comes to mind), the original signing of Speedy, no drafting of Paul and Deron Williams, no “real” center, Marvin not quite developing at the pace his #2 pick would suggest, signing of the folks they did last summer, etc., etc. coach Woodson has coached them up and has done a remarketable job. They are one of the very elite teams that most city’s would love to have and model themselves after (look at Oklahoma City, of course they did not screw their picks up and they are modeling us and I am in Washington D.C. and we would love to have Hawks here!!!…smile).
This groups represents itself well with all of the temptations in the ATL and young guys on this team, you NEVER read or hear about these guys over all of the years in any trouble with the nightlife and the law!!! I just don’t think it’s by accident!!!
If you were a teacher and handing out grades, you would have to give coach Woodson an A+!!! Especially since the 7 game series against the Celtics in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Avery Johnson, (P-A-L-E-A-S-E!!!) he was given a championship team in Dallas and was up 2 games to none and 13 points with 5 minutes to play in game 3 and lost 98-96 to Miami and an aging Shaq and then lost the next 3 games straight, and could not get it done and the Mavs have never been heard from again (Avery Johnson!!!). if Avery was so great with all of the coaching changes there has been, the last couple of years, why has someone else not have taken him? Byron Scott, the Jazz fired him right and he had a losing record while he was there 5 years and started the 2008 season off 3-6 (that Byron Scott!!!)?
So don’t hate, (appreciate) what the Hawks and coach Woodson has done (and I know it has been the entire organization and not just one guy plus his terrific assistants). I also now for a fact, they are one of the hardest working coaching staffs in the NBA!!!
Finally, coach Woodson has been hard on Josh Smith (in a fatherly figure kind of way) over the years. Even publicly at times, however I think you can see this season the fruit of coaches labor in the much improved play of Josh Smith. I also know Flip Murray last year had his BEST season as a pro and helped the Hawks out allot (again coaching…oh, I wonder how much money coach made Zsa Zsa? Think how bad he was when we picked him up from the Bucks and the money we signed him to last summer)!!!
Stop picking on Woody and start putting pressure on the front office to get coach a piece or two before Thursday ends!!! (smile)…Love the Hawks!!! Go Hawks…Good night BirdDawg, you kept me up to 3:00 in the morning!!!! (smile)…Stay on them down there Truth-Serum (smile)!!!!
ICECOLD
February 18th, 2010
10:31 am
everything u said SNOWMAN is true. but like i was saying. everybody screens they want a big man thats a defensive presence that can guard shaq or dwight howard. but the fact is. they are limited and hard to get. so we might as well drop jason collins and add sellers. he might not be ready to play this year, but at least that is somebody we can develope from scratch.. jason collins is done. he’s not gon help in the playoffs and he is definitly not helping right now. all he is good for is waisting fouls, but thats all. he’s even too slow for shaq. now if we trade for somebody,w ho are we gon trade.. it would be stupid to trade a good player for somebody thats going to come off the bench. its stupid to trade mo or zaza or marvin for any bench player.. unless they gon be big man that use to be a all star at one point in there life..
ICECOLD
February 18th, 2010
10:35 am
and mo evens should have got way more playin time. he is good, i believe he should start over marvin williams, they play the same except i think marvin will be better off the bench. just like college… its not a down grade, it wont hurt his feelings,he would be better off the bench… less pressure on him!! then mo would play his best cuz he is gettin more time…let mo shine!!!! lol
AtlSouthside
February 18th, 2010
1:35 pm
Joe Johnson is a keeper. If he goes somewhere else, it’ll be a mistake on his part as well as the Hawks…. especially if he’s not playing for LAL, Orl, Cleve, or Dallas… He would have to end up on a team with another scorer, because Joe can’t single-handedly carry a team…. It’d be a mistake for us because their arent too many SG/SF’s who have an all-around game like Joe’s
AtlSouthside
February 18th, 2010
1:40 pm
BIG RAY, nobody is saying that Horford isn’t good enough to be a Center, he’s simply not built to be a Center. He simply cannot dominate against a legit Center… Last night’s showcase was great, but Clipper’s have no chemistry right now…. Horford doesnt put up 30ppg, especially when he has to play defense. Teams know that the key to beating the Hawks is to attack the basket…. Teams dont win rings with a 6′9 Center
RachaelEvans
February 18th, 2010
1:47 pm
JJ should not be traded. In my humble opinion, I think he’s probably the 7th best basketball player in the league right now. I would only put 6 guys ahead of joe: Carmello Anthony, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce; Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and LaBron James. Thats it. In my book Joe is #7 and he has the same exact characteristics of the six ahead of him which is why he falls in the top 10. Those guys like Joe dont need anyone to set up their shots. They can create their shot anywhere, anytime with however much time is on the clock, whether its second 1 or 24 in the 24 second clock. They need noone to assist the ball to them because they can create their own shots off the dribble. Joe is a special player and if we lose him, we might as well sell the team and have it move somewhere else because all the other acquisitions will be wasted. Joe Johnson can CARRY the Hawks on his back to an NBA title. No doubt about it. The only doubters out there are those who are unfamilar with his skill sets.
JonasCanfield
February 19th, 2010
1:48 pm
I ONLY HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR ALL THE HAWK FANS OUT THERE. Should the Hawks go on to win the NBA title in June of this year, will the experts in the media continue to ask, “Do the Hawks need to upgrade their talent pool?”
niremetal
February 19th, 2010
2:42 pm
Mark,
You do realize that JJ’s shooting percentage is up significantly, right? And that JJ’s getting less assists has been directly correlated with him playing on the ball less this year because of Jamal Crawford? And you make it sound like he’s chucking the ball with abandon compared to past years, when in reality he is only averaging 0.3 field goal attempts per game more than last year – that is, he is taking 1 more shot every 3 games?
You also don’t seem to understand that there are aspects to basketball besides someone’s bottom line box score averages. You talk about points and rebounds per game as if they are the only measures of a player’s worth. Because that’s the only way that you can say that Marvin is playing worse this year than he did in his 2nd and 3rd years. You do realize that there is an aspect to the game called “defense,” don’t you?
As for Bibby and Williams being traded, look up the salary cap rules before you make it sound like trades are possible. My guess is that you don’t anything about them, based on that and your past suggestions for trades that would violate about 2645536 provisions of the NBA’s collective bargaining agreement.
You don’t know jack sh!t about basketball. You just read the box scores, watch a few nationally televised games, and then talk out of your ass. When will you learn to stick to baseball and college football, and leave the basketball analysis to people who are actually willing to invest the time to learn about it?
niremetal
February 19th, 2010
2:58 pm
Since Feb 1, Bradley has made the following number of posts for each sport:
College Football – 15
Baseball – 9
College basketball – 6
Pro Football – 4
Pro basketball – 3
NASCAR – 1
Yup, that’s right. He wrote more than 5 times as many columns about college football (which is out of season) and 3 times as many about baseball (also out of season) than basketball. He also wrote twice as much about college hoops than pro hoops, even though the Hawks have one of the 5 best records in the NBA and neither Georgia nor Georgia Tech are in the Top 25.
At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that you don’t follow pro basketball very closely and don’t bother to learn much about the workings of pro basketball before you write your columns. It’s just plain sad that there might be people who read your columns and think they actually are based on more than looking at ppg/rpg/apg averages, ESPN highlight reels, and the occasional nationally televised Hawks game.
JackBenson
February 19th, 2010
4:45 pm
The Hawks should not go after Illgoskas. if Illgoskas was so good, Cleveland would not have gotten rid of him. The Hawks should have signed Antoine Jameson before Clevlend did. Either Jameson or Amare Stoudemare. That the Hawks have stood pat clearly shows they care nothing about winning. Tracy McGrady was also available. T-Mac used to be probably the 4th best player in the game behind D-Wade, Labron and Kobe, yet the Hawks did nothing to pursue T-Mac so now he is someone elses property. The Hawks could have traded Pachulia, Bibby and Marvin Williams and could have landed Stoudemire. Now they have the same stale team that goes up and down to the level of their competition.
BirdDawg
February 20th, 2010
4:25 am
Hey Snowman, hopefully you catch this as I am up at 4 in the morning to respond. Before I get started, let me say I’m in the D.C. area as well (although) originally from Atlanta) so believe me, I know how much the people in the area would love to switch basketball teams with Atlanta right now. And your points about the players that those teams had are well received. It is without a doubt, much easier to win a championship with a player like Jordan or Kobe or Pippen, but even those players didn’t reach ultimate success until they had Phil Jackson guiding their teams. Also, I understand that the Lakers had Gasol when they beat the Magic, but if I remember correctly, Bynum was injured during the Finals. My point is, Gasol plays more in the mode of a Dirk Nowitski, not a true center like most Hawks fans seem to think will lift this team to the Finals. I’ve been a fan of this team since the days of Dominique Wilkins and I’ve seen the work that Mike Woodson has done since the beginning and from my observation, this team has improved due to keeping it’s core players together (rest of the NBA should take note that patience is a virtue) not because of his coaching. Honestly, I’m sort of glad the Hawks didn’t draft Deron Williams or Chris Paul because my opinion is that their talents would have been wasted under Woodson whose aversion to playing young players is well documented. Case in point, clearly at this point, even the casual fan can see that Jeff Teague would be a significant upgrade over Bibby, yet Teague continues to sit the bench. Granted, Bibby has more experience, but with his lack of production and his inability to protect the ball at key moment, one would have to surmise that Jeff Teague would not present that much of a drop-off, if at all. The championship coaches show an ability to make in-game adjustments to their game plan and develop personnel. Woodson has not shown this at all. Championship coaches adjust their coaching philosophy to fit their players strengths in order to get the most out of them. Woodson does not (ex. we still use Iso-Joe way too much). I think this team has reached it’s ceiling with Woodson and I can’t see them reaching the level of Cleveland or L.A. with him. A big man would help, but unless we get Dwight Howard (yeah, right) the Hawks won’t see the Eastern Conference Finals or beyond with Woodson at the helm. You make some excellent points Snowman, and honestly, I think the Hawks are one of the top three teams in the league in terms of talent, but to waste that talent on a coach that can’t use it to it’s fullest potential is utter lunacy my man.
Snowman
February 20th, 2010
10:35 pm
Thanks BirdDawg, we can agreed to disagree without being disagreeable (smile and that is cool)!!! We definitely are at polar opposite on coach Woodson and how well he can coach and has coached this team for the last 6 years!!! How many pro basketall coaches record gets better and better every year for the last 6 years? When you say coach has reached the limit of what he can do for this team, then how do they keep getting better every year record wise, how dow did they sweep the Celtics this year, how did they win there 1st round series last season against Dwayne and Miami?
Who are your top 3 choices of coaches to replace a Woodson (and be reasonable, you are not getting Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, or Red Auerbach…smile?).
Finally, if you have been in the DC area for the last few years, then you know the Wizards had Eddie Jordan as their head coach (by the way, Flip Saunders is NOT an upgrade over Eddie Jordan…seriously, he is NOT but that is a debate for another evening…smile) and he had been doing a good job with Arenas, Jamenson, and Butler however when they too could not get over the hump (beat Cleveland or Miami in the playoffs), instead of tweaking the lineup or getting other pieces to help Eddie, they just would stand pat and “hope” (hope!!!!…what!!!) they would get better the next year. They would also screw up their draft picks and as a result the Wizards fired Eddie and are currently a mess but it was not an Eddie Jordan problem, in my opinion, but a GM problem!!!! That team should have been tweaked or pieces traded to get other pieces to make the team better. Now, as I tie that back to Atlanta, Marvin, ZSA ZSA, and Mo should have been moved to get us a 3 that we so desperately need!!! A real 3 a good 3….we desperately need a 3 (a Caron Butler or Tayshaun Prince type for example) would have been a huge asset and upgrade for us…again just my opinion. Thanks BirdDawg for the exchange but you are completely wrong about Woody and if you MUST take a shot, you should take a shot at the GM and wonder what the heck he is doing to help this club, RIGHT NOW?…Love the Hawks!!!…Go Hawks and I hate to be too critical because I really like what they are doing!!!
BirdDawg
February 20th, 2010
11:21 pm
Snowman,
Nothing wrong with disagreement. There would be no reason for blogs if we all agreed on everything, lol. I respect your opinion, and don’t get me wrong, I do realize that Mike Woodson has done some decent things for this team. I just feel the drawbacks of his coaching outweigh the benefits. I also agree with you that the Hawks could use some pieces (and give Rick Sund time, he just took over and he did get us Jamal Crawford for practically nothing)however, looking at this team, I think the Hawks have the talent right now to be much better than they are. To Woodson’s benefit, they have improved every year since he’s been here, but to the teams’ detriment, they are still losing games the same way they were when he first got here, just not as often. That is coaching, not players. As good as the Hawks are, slight tweaks in his coaching philosophy could have this team up about 5-7 more wins than where they are now. I agree with you about Eddie Jordan, also. I think given more time and a maybe a defensive stopper, he could have done wonders with the Wizards. He got a raw deal and was blamed for their inability to beat Cleveland. That being said, other than Byron Scott, I wouldn’t mind seeing Eddie walking the Hawks sideline either. I think Byron got the same raw deal as Eddie and he did a lot for a team that featured one superstar and a few talented role players. The Hawks have one superstar, 3 potential superstars and several talented role players. Lack of size is not an excuse. Even though they are smaller at center than most teams, they are bigger across the board than most teams also. A starting lineup with a 6′7″ shooting guard, three players at least 6′9″ tall, and a super talented sixth man that is 6′4″ tall will always have matchups that can be exploited. Woodson just doesn’t know how to exploit them. What Horford lacks in size, he makes up for with speed, quickness and a pretty good mid-range shot. Woodson could use him much the way Chuck Daly used Bill Laimbeer with great success during the Pistons championship runs. Probably more so since Horford is much quicker than Laimbeer ever was. I long to see Shaq or Dwight Howard try to guard him or Smoove on the perimeter. That would also take a major defensive presence out of the middle in both cases giving Jamal and Joe clearer paths to the basket. Or maybe try using Joe Johnson in the post since there are few guards in the league big enough to guard him there. Or instead of Iso-Joe or Iso-Jamal in crunch time, use one to set up the other or use one to set up the other as a decoy to take a man away from Josh Smith cutting to the basket. These are just a few examples of the many ways Woodson will under-coach a game and it’s frustrating. I won’t blame Woodson for all the Hawks problems, at the same time, I won’t hold him blameless for this team not being as good as it could be either. But along with you, I will continue to be a Hawks fan regardless of whether Woodson stays or goes. I love the team and glad to see them enjoying major success for the first time in a very long time. I like what they are doing as well, I just feel that with the talent they have, they could be so much better.
Darrin "The Vent King"
February 21st, 2010
3:34 pm
This is the best assessment I’ve read in awhile concerning the Hawks. A lot of these things point to why Woodson needs to replaced- he is NOT good. Doesn’t develop the young talent (he is doing Teague worse than Acie Law), only one play in his pocket (”Iso-Joe” is killing me!) at the end of the game, no offensive imagination whatsoever, and it appears some of the guys have tuned him out. Sund has a lot of work ahead of him. This team wins on youth and athleticism, not Woodson coaching. I got luv for this squad but they are not going to get to that championship level with this Woodson, he is just not the one-sorry. They win despite him.
Darrin "The Vent King"
February 21st, 2010
3:37 pm
And btw- all this “well they’ve improved every year under him” dung needs to stop. When you start out winning only THIRTEEN freaking games one season…you have only have UP to go.
BirdDawg
February 21st, 2010
5:18 pm
Well said, Vent King. I agree with you 100%. The bench loses heart and focus because of his coaching. Teague, Joe Smith, Maurice Evans, Zaza Pachulia and Mario West can all be significant contributors and all their talent is being wasted on Woodson. Teague’s career will be tossed away just like Acie Law if they don’t replace him after this season. Come playoff time, the starters will again be worn down by the end of the first round and probably get swept in the second again if Woodson doesn’t get it together quickly. He deserves little credit for this teams improvement over the years and much blame for this team not being real championship contenders right now. It’s past time for Mike Woodson to go.
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2010
8:00 pm
……………………..it is true that the hawks have been gettin better as far as they record every year. but that is only true because of the athleticism of the hawks.. you finally have a proven point guard in mike bibby, a super star shootin guard, a young and very good defender and can score the ball small forward, a power foward who is young and should have been a all-star who does it all… literally!!! does it all.. then a small center ( yep i made up his position.. lol) that is a all-star and is a double double machine.. plus i like his spot up jump shot… (anyway) , and a six man of the year ( he will be ) that is a pure scorer……. all these peices and i see the same plays over and over again, where josh is at the top of the key and passes the ball to mike bibby, and then joe johnson is posting somebody up.. then it starts iso-joe…. the whole entire game!!!! its so much talent in the one through six man!!! and mo evans can defend and is a good three point shooter, and joe smith play hard , and zaza who plays hard ( i really dont see talent after that, but thats all u need) and all u do is the same iso-joe play, its so predictable and teams know that.. its not like phils triangle offense thats proven to work, its iso-joe, i mean he is good but he does have his off days… but any way.. we should not have a coach that continues to do this, he like woodson and what he (helped do) , because they really would have did it if they went out there and played street ball, because its one of the best starting five in the league.. and six man… if we dont get a better coach, its gon get to a point where that record gon peak at its best, then its gon steady get lower and lower, good job woodson, now u can go coach the bob cats or something, u deserve a job.. but atlanta needs a championship desperately and he is not the coach that is going to do that.. sorry.. thats the truth!!! icecold truth