5 warning signs as these Hawks seek to move upward
Here's Jeff Teague. Haven't seen much of him lately. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
A stipulation: The Hawks are having a sunny season and have a chance to play deeper into the playoffs than they have in 40 years. “We’ve closed the gap on the top three [teams in the East],” Mike Woodson said last week, and they’ve gained so much ground they’ve become the fourth in a Big Four. That said …
When you step up in class, even the tiniest flaw can become major. And here, as they go forward, are five warning signs for these Hawks:
1. The bench is basically two guys plus Mo. Remember when we thought the Hawks actually had a second unit? That lasted about 10 days. Jason Collins has worked 17 minutes this season. Joe Smith averages 9.2 minutes per game, Jeff Teague 9.7. (Not-so-fun fact: The rookie Teague, whom Mike Woodson claims to like, averages nearly six fewer minutes than did Acie Law, whom Woodson didn’t much like, in his rookie season.) Mo Evans worked 23 minutes a game last season; he’s down to 15.3 this.
The bench is essentially Jamal Crawford, who has been great, and Zaza Pachulia. We saw the peril in that when both were out against Miami last week. The other subs managed a total of eight points.
2. Turns out continuity has its limits. It seemed a major victory when Rick Sund managed to retain Pachulia, Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby over the offseason. Alas, not one of them has taken his new contract and run with it. Pachulia averaged 6.2 points and 5.7 rebounds last season; he’s averaging 4.4 and 3.4 now. Bibby’s scoring average has dropped six whole points and his shooting percentage has plunged from 43.5 to 40.6. Williams is having his worst season since he was a rookie, which was back in 2005-2006.
3. Those re-upped contracts and the impending Joe Johnson negotiations tied Sund’s hands. The Hawks have all but conceded they’re not interested in making a deal — the deadline is Thursday — but the colder truth is that they can’t. Williams and Bibby fit the definition of expendable, but nobody wants them because their performance has dipped and they’re saddled with long-term contracts to boot. And the Hawks couldn’t take on a big salary were they so inclined; it will take $17 million a year to keep Johnson. (He declined their offer of $15 million last fall.)
4. Speaking of Joe … he’s shooting it more, passing it less. He’s averaging 18.4 shots per game, up from 18 last season, against 4.6 assists, down from 5.8. Given that the Hawks have other capable scorers — Al Horford made the All-Star team, and Crawford and Josh Smith coulda/shoulda — this isn’t a promising development. Johnson and Crawford don’t work as well together as Johnson and Bibby did, and Bibby is on the floor less than Crawford.
Still, Woodson seems determined to stick with Iso-Joe as an endgame strategy. Against the Thunder on MLK Day, Johnson took eight of the Hawks’ 23 fourth-quarter shots; he missed five and the Hawks lost. Against the Celtics on Jan. 29, he took nine of the Hawks’ 19 fourth-quarter shots; he made seven and the Hawks won. It’s fine when it works, but shouldn’t a team with more options have … more options?
5. The Hawks have owned one of the other Big Four, but only one. Good news: The Hawks are 4-0 against Boston. Bad news: They’re 0-5 against Cleveland and Orlando, with the average margin of defeat being 15.4 points. Worse news: They’re more apt to play the Cavs or the Magic in Round 2 than they are the Celtics.
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147 comments Add your comment
PaddyWagon
February 16th, 2010
1:06 pm
The Hawks should attempt to acquire Amare Stoudemire (the missing piece). Amare will help the Hawks get past Cleveland and Orlando in the playoffs, teams who use their physical size to rough up the Hawks. Amare can bang with Howard and LaBron. The acquisition of Amare Stoudemire is what is standing in the way of the Hawks hoisting the “Larry O’Brien trophy”.
tito jackson
February 16th, 2010
1:30 pm
It’s the ownership, they don’t want to spend money, and why all hate on the coach so much he’s not the problem, and YALL acting like the hawks got the worst record like they are the nets or something, and this the best there been since I can’t remember, and the reason there good is because a player like Joe Johnson came In, and YALL talking about wade, everytime joe play against wade he shuts him down, look what he did to him in the playoffs. If u can remember I’m sure its on YouTube, or nba.com
AceDawg
February 16th, 2010
1:50 pm
Hawks have concerns in facing the Magic or Cavs, but otherwise this talk of production going down with other players is understandable when you add a new major scorer in Jamal Crawford. Many points here are weak – Teague would get less minutes then AC Law because of the Hawks strong starting 5 and Crawford. Zaza will lose production when playing less and giving a few minutes to Joe Smith. Bibby loses production because of Crawford more than anyone else.
We just have to hope ATL can improve against the Magic and Cavs in a seven game series where they can get used to the teams. It does seem like Atlanta usually plays the Magic after a difficult game right before. If they are rested, they may do better.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
Ice, nice comment, but here we see that Camby was just traded. There are some big men available. Charlotte has Diop whom I have recommended for the size and exp and price. We just need the presence that will provide 10pts, 10-12 reb’s. Like you said we have some shooters…they just cant get loose because teams defending Atlanta can just play zone or basically the perimeter. It sometimes backfires but not in the case of the teams we need to beat. Another option is just to force Zsa Zsa, Morris, or Collins into the center position and make them play like the pros they are. If they arent going to contribute every night at such a needed position, then what is their role (Sund). Think about it, we have 3 7fters! I do not propose getting rid of Mo Evans, West, or Crawford, or Teague. Teague is more valuable than people realize at the moment. He is just stuck behind Crawf and Bibby. Mo is still effective with the 3, and West is a good defender off the bench. (beating a familiar drum) We need a Big man! Let’s Go Hawks!
CinderellaStevenson
February 16th, 2010
2:25 pm
I think the Hawks do have what it takes to go all the way. The ONLY thing missing from the hawks is BELIEF IN THEMSELVES. The Hawks STILL have a low self-image in terms of how good they think they are. The Hawks are athletic have speed and quickness, are good at rebounding and commit few turnovers, get steals and assists; surely the ingredients for success. But the Hawks dont think they are among the NBAs elite because every time they play an elite team: Denver, Lakers, Magic, Cavs, etc. all except Boston, the Hawks let the other team get miles ahead of them, then try to play catch up the rest of the way. When the Hawks are rested and are playing well–it doesnt matter who is on the Hawks schedule–THEY WILL WIN. A case in point, last season the Lakers came into Phillips late in the year, but the Hawks were ready for them. The Hawks trashed the Lakers (the eventual world champions) and made it look incredibly easy, winning by double digits. They did that with the current group that they have. They trounced the lakers without an amare stoudemire. The Hawks are good enough to be champions but until they believe it themselves; they will continue to play like doormats and lose games that they should win handily.
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
2:27 pm
Here’s my problem with getting a “true” big man — Diop, say: If you play him at 5, then Horford moves at 4, and Horford — contrary to popular belief — would NOT have been an All-Star at that position. And then Josh Smith moves to 3. Do you really want him on the perimeter?
Tony
February 16th, 2010
2:53 pm
Sautee,
The most are those who contend that the Hawks need another shooter. Horford is playing out of position but was recognized for doing a good job there. That does not negate the fact that they need a legitimate no. 5. Other coaches around the league are not concerned with what’s good for Atlanta anyway. Do you mean he is more deserving than Shaq, Bogut, or even Brook Lopez? This has nothing to do with the other coaches in the league. It has everything to do with Hawks management and what they are going to do to get to the next level.
Tony
February 16th, 2010
3:08 pm
Thanks Mark. Yes, Josh on the perimeter doesnt mean that he cant fulfill that position. He wants to be more of an outside player anyway. This will allow him the opportunity to develop that part of his game but not limit the team at the same time. Horford is an exceptionally talented player and who knows, he may as well have deserved a spot on the All-Star team. Who knows? But the All-Star selection is not as important as being in position to win a championship. I think the Hawks are much more versatile with a defensive center in position…nothing against Horford at all.
LukeMerriman
February 16th, 2010
3:11 pm
The folks who say that Woody doesnt have the offense running smoothly, should go back and look at the tape of last Fridays, Hawks/Chicago Bulls game. That is the best game I have ever seen the Hawks for running their offense. They ran it brilliantly and were never challenged by the bulls. This is the same bulls team that beat the Hawks in ot earlier in the season when the Hawks blew a 24 point lead, due to a stagnant running offense after the Hawks had built a comfortable lead. The Hawks are learning to play offense and have done an incredible job of getting better with a ton of plays set up for Josh Smith, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford and others. The offense used to be “GIVE THE BALL TO JOE JOHNSON AND CLEAR OUT AND WATCH HIM WORK”. Now almost everyone is getting involved thus making the Hawks stronger and accounting for the Hawks steller record so far.
NickDiamond
February 16th, 2010
3:37 pm
rusty: you hit the nail on the head. Dominique should come back and play until he’s 60. Nique has ALWAYS kept himself in tremendous shape and is stil probably better than 90% of the players out there now. If Nique comes back and coaches as a player-coach, he’ll lead this team to a championship, the same way that Bill Russell did that for the Celtics decades ago. Dominique if you are out there, chime in on these blogs of those who would welcome your return. It would be great to see you teach Josh Smith a few tricks.
FeudFinder
February 16th, 2010
4:43 pm
The Hawks needs a very good and notable center who can compete against other centers in the league without getting in foul trouble early. Al is good but not enough to go against D. Howard. Collins is good but he can only come from the bench.
Nique #21
February 16th, 2010
4:49 pm
I gave you all I got when I was younger. Y ‘all shipped me away. I have too much Heineken in my belly now.
BirdDawg
February 16th, 2010
5:05 pm
To all these people that are clamoring for a true center to “magically” lift the Hawks to an NBA championship, consider this: several teams throughout history have proven(i.e. Jordan’s Bulls, Isaiah Pistons, Rip’s Pistons, heck even Kobe’s Lakers) that you can win without a true center as long as you have a talented team and a coach that knows how to get the best out of that team. The Hawks have a talented team. They don’t have a coach that knows how to use it. A big, talented center may help, but does not guarantee a championship. Last I checked, Dwight Howard, the most talented center in the league still hasn’t won a championship. In fact, his Magic were beaten by the Lakers in the Finals who didn’t have a center anywhere near his caliber. Shaquille O’neal, maybe the most dominant center ever, only won championships when he was on teams with Hall of Fame level coaches and superstar shooting guards. Bottom line, this team has improved through maturation and familiarity with each other. Woodson hasn’t changed his coaching philosophy or approach one bit since he’s been here. The Hawks have hit their ceiling with Woodson. It’s time to get a coach that can take them further. I push for Byron Scott because his basketball pedigree and coaching knowledge shows itself during games. He won coach of the year with a team far less talented than the Hawks have right now. This team will not go any further than they already have with Woodson unless he makes drastic changes to the way he coaches and he has shown repeatedly that he is unwilling or unable to do that.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:32 pm
Mark ,
I always love blogs like these.
They are usually so full of brilliant ideas and suggestions.
Some of the best include the idea that Woody is a great coach and the fact that the Hawks can’t do better is really the GM’s fault. You know, the guy who can’t make a move without 9 bean counters (or is it 7 these days?) second guessing his every move and inquiring not only will this cost $4 dollars more than the current payroll, but why should it cost $4 dollars more?
Here’s another one: the same person who will consistently bash Josh Smith, one of the unequivocally best players on a good Hawks team this year, will also suggest that we give Randolph Morris more minutes. That person also likes the idea of relegating Smith to the bench, and at the small forward spot, at that. Brilliant. So let’s take our second best rebounder, third best assist guy, best shot-blocker and game-changer defender, and third highest scorer…and put him on the bench. Not only that, but when he does come into the game, put him totally out of position to do what he does best on both offense and defense. I guess if my blog handle was comprised of two letters repeating themselves, I’d come up with the same stuff….
Ah yes, and we need a real center. The one we have to made the all-star team while playing out of position and while undersized isn’t nearly good enough. Clearly every NBA coach has had a lobotomy and highly overrated Al Horford. Let’s get the record straight: The Hawks need a tough guy to play BACKUP center, and can play minutes at the 5 spot while Horford moves to the 4, if the Hawks want or need to go big. Zaza fills that role from time to time against some teams, but he’s not the ticket. A more mobile, tougher goon would fill the bill nicely. Unfortunately, we’ve gotten ourselves into a position where we can’t trade anything of value for it without losing something we need. But, that’s what happens when your backup pg doesn’t get minutes, your starting pg is a shell of what he was LAST year, one of your backup shooting guards can’t shoot, and the other one can’t play all that great with Joe because he does what Joe does….only 3 gears faster.
Personally, I think the Hawks are a pretty dang good team. And all of this confusion of what Sund has done is nothing but a grand conspiracy to fire Woody. No really, it is. You can even ask Snowman, who will admit to it when he’s not on his meds. Seriously.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:33 pm
Just kidding, Snowman . About the meds, that is.
Big Ray
February 16th, 2010
11:50 pm
But he’s shocked, Mark. Flabbergasted, even. Never had your flabber gasted? Well, I guess not, being a slim fellow who’s in good shape. Now thick’uns like myself…
Mark Bradley
February 16th, 2010
11:53 pm
Sorry, Big Ray, that comment was meant for a different post. (Obviously.)
Me, I’m shocked and flabbergasted on an hourly basis.
Snowman
February 17th, 2010
12:12 am
Thanks Big Ray, so someone is reading my non-sense huh (smile)!!! I am not on Meds however I do like the Hawks and coach Woodson and I also know it’s deal making time so Mr. GM, getsta making a deal (hurry, we have already lost Haywood, Butler and Camby)…smile!!!
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:06 am
josh is a natural small forward. he can step out there ( not the three point line ) and take the mid range shot if he has too.. but basically you would have a 3 players in the game at all time that can back anybody down. and if josh smith was playing the 3, the perimeter pick and roll would be perfect. then you can just throw the alley when josh smith roll after horford ( the slashing power forward ) sets that back pick. it would be perfect. then if you need some fire power, you bring Crawford off the bench and move Joe Johnson to small forward. then three pointers raining from Bibby, Joe, and Jamal. it would all work out. and no lack on defense, because the hawks do the rotation defense thing. getting a legit big man would improve the starting five a whole lot. !!!! especially with amare stademire, a run and gun team like the hawks would be perfect for him. then bibby would really average about 8 assist and people would get off his back about scoring. every gap would be feeled in. the bench would go to being three deep though ( jamal, teague, and joe smith in the play offs) west can play defense when needed, ( this is if moe, marvin, and zaza got traded) so we would need to use collins a little bit..
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:12 am
i think Atlanta as a whole city gets too attached to players and to sports team. somebody will be disappointed if the hawks did make some moves before the trade deadline. its still some hawks fans mad that josh childress and flip Murray not on the team. and sunds trying to keep his fans, so he dont wanna part from none of the main players. but to get the best people , u have to trade one of the starters, and Joe josh and horford is never going any where if it is up to the hawks!!!
ICECOLD
February 17th, 2010
2:20 am
horford would be a all-star either way.. he is just plain out good.. he could do even more at power forward. playing center limits him to what he really can do.. i mean that spot up shot he has seems to never miss
and thank you tony.. but who would you trade for those big men you see… what would other teams possibly want that we are trully willing to give up.. NOBODY!!
but the HAWKS are a real good team.. we talkin about them like they are under five hundred or in a fight for the play offs or something.. they are going to be alright.. they made it this far despite the odds.. i believe they can win it this year.. i really think no team can beat them in a seven game series. except the magics.. avoid them and the sky is the limit
E43
February 17th, 2010
3:20 am
most of d hawks problems listed can vanish if joe+jamal don’t take the court together. they’ve run away from the idea that jamal was to be instant offense when JOE WAS OUT OF THE GAME. it messes up everyone because your forcing the rotation into playing their secondary positions. then teague and bibby are stuck out the gameplan because they play only 1 position.bibby teague marvin and zaza may not be playing fantastic but the game-plan+depth chart just doesnt do them any favors. its the price we pay for handing everything to our 2guards. Were winning now but eventually teams will figure us out like the Thunder.
Big Ray
February 17th, 2010
5:09 am
Mark ,
Yeah, I messed that one up. I don’t know how I managed to make that comment on the wrong blog.
Snowman ,
Your nonsense is as good as anybody else’s!
Sautee
February 17th, 2010
8:57 am
Tony,
You said this in regard to Horford:
“Other coaches around the league are not concerned with what’s good for Atlanta anyway. Do you mean he is more deserving than Shaq, Bogut, or even Brook Lopez?”
Tony, when the coaches voted for the All-Star team they were told: Pick one player for each position and two players at large. You may not vote for one of your own players.
Al was the only center picked (David Lee was added later, when Iverson dropped out). The coaches weren’t asked “How can the Hawks improve”, they were asked which players are playing best at their positions. The said Al at center over Shaq, Lopez, Bogut AND Lee. Yes, they thought Al was more deserving.
That said, I’ve been calling for a “Camby type” off the bench for two years now.
CrowlerWilkinson
February 17th, 2010
2:11 pm
The Hawks now have four #1 scorers on their team. Smoove, JJ, Horford and Crawford; a really good problem to have. Actually if you count Marvin Williams they have 5, but Marvin is pretty much automatic on making layups, but thats all you can count on him for. The Hawks SHOULD develop plays for those 4 guys and expand the scope of their offense, similarly to how the Orlando Magic run plays for Dwight Howard and their scorers. The Hawks are close to being a championship calibre ballclub and it depends on how well they develop in the second half.
Turth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
5:02 pm
I have to agree with most of the rational guys on this site, the hawks need a big man who is a defense force or an unstoppable offensive weapon. Id trade Whoreford for Stoudamire any day of the week and Id take Lopez or Camby over Whoreford all day long.
Truth-Serum
February 17th, 2010
7:11 pm
Snowman you posts are always on point and you are very knowledgeable. Perhaps Ray was jealous of your obvious talent. There is that side of him. – LOL
Big Ray
February 17th, 2010
10:42 pm
Truth-Serum ,
Tell ya what. Tell me what your talent is, then I’ll tell you whether or not I’m jealous. Hard to be jealous of something when I am not aware of its existence. Wait, is it the ability to post under multiple names on different computers? You’re right, I can’t match you on that one….
Big Ray
February 18th, 2010
12:11 am
Hmmmm. It seems that our itty bitty little all-star center is scoring at will tonight against the Clippers and their 7′1″ all-star center. 5 minutes left in the third quarter and Horford has 24 points already. 9 for 11 from the field. 6 of 7 from the line. Yeah, we definitely need a much better guy than this one…
Mark Bradley
February 18th, 2010
12:48 am
Laughing out loud, Big Ray.
Snowman
February 18th, 2010
2:59 am
BirdDawg, BirdDawg, BirdDawg (I knew I should not have stopped by the computer on my way to bed to check the blog)!!!! Ok, here we go 1) Jordan is one of top 3 greatest players of all-time and played with Scottie Pippen, one of the top 50 of all-time and Dennis Rodman (Just a bad analogy!!!). Now they may not of had a dominate center however they did have several quality 7fter’s on all of the team (Wennington/Cartwright to name a couple) and Horace Grant (All-Star) on half of the championships.
2) What in the Heck do you think Pau Gasol is for the Lakers (H-E-L-L-O!!!)? he is a 7fter, Bynum is a 7fter too and again Kobe is one of the BEST players all-time as well. How did Kobe do when he did not have Shaq or Gasol? How far would the Hawks go with Gasol?
3) Orlando was in the finals, despite one heckuva season the Cavs had last year because of Dwight Howard (and a helluva roster). The Cavs went and acquired Shaq because of how they were exposed in the playoffs last year in the middle!!! How would the Hawks do this year or last if we had Shaq in the playoffs even at this point in his career?
Now you can go out and get Red Auerbach, Phil Jackson, Pop, even John Wooden or Bob Knight and they would not get he Hawks ahead of Cleveland and Orlando they way the Hawks are configured (period!)!!!! Now that would be harder to do than get a piece or two to help coach Woodson get Atlanta to the next step. You see what Cleveland just did with Antwann and they have the BEST record in basketball.
This is again NOT a Mike Woodson problem because in spite of all of the blunders (previous drafts, Sheldon Williams comes to mind), the original signing of Speedy, no drafting of Paul and Deron Williams, no “real” center, Marvin not quite developing at the pace his #2 pick would suggest, signing of the folks they did last summer, etc., etc. coach Woodson has coached them up and has done a remarketable job. They are one of the very elite teams that most city’s would love to have and model themselves after (look at Oklahoma City, of course they did not screw their picks up and they are modeling us and I am in Washington D.C. and we would love to have Hawks here!!!…smile).
This groups represents itself well with all of the temptations in the ATL and young guys on this team, you NEVER read or hear about these guys over all of the years in any trouble with the nightlife and the law!!! I just don’t think it’s by accident!!!
If you were a teacher and handing out grades, you would have to give coach Woodson an A+!!! Especially since the 7 game series against the Celtics in the playoffs a couple of years ago. Avery Johnson, (P-A-L-E-A-S-E!!!) he was given a championship team in Dallas and was up 2 games to none and 13 points with 5 minutes to play in game 3 and lost 98-96 to Miami and an aging Shaq and then lost the next 3 games straight, and could not get it done and the Mavs have never been heard from again (Avery Johnson!!!). if Avery was so great with all of the coaching changes there has been, the last couple of years, why has someone else not have taken him? Byron Scott, the Jazz fired him right and he had a losing record while he was there 5 years and started the 2008 season off 3-6 (that Byron Scott!!!)?
So don’t hate, (appreciate) what the Hawks and coach Woodson has done (and I know it has been the entire organization and not just one guy plus his terrific assistants). I also now for a fact, they are one of the hardest working coaching staffs in the NBA!!!
Finally, coach Woodson has been hard on Josh Smith (in a fatherly figure kind of way) over the years. Even publicly at times, however I think you can see this season the fruit of coaches labor in the much improved play of Josh Smith. I also know Flip Murray last year had his BEST season as a pro and helped the Hawks out allot (again coaching…oh, I wonder how much money coach made Zsa Zsa? Think how bad he was when we picked him up from the Bucks and the money we signed him to last summer)!!!
Stop picking on Woody and start putting pressure on the front office to get coach a piece or two before Thursday ends!!! (smile)…Love the Hawks!!! Go Hawks…Good night BirdDawg, you kept me up to 3:00 in the morning!!!! (smile)…Stay on them down there Truth-Serum (smile)!!!!
ICECOLD
February 18th, 2010
10:31 am
everything u said SNOWMAN is true. but like i was saying. everybody screens they want a big man thats a defensive presence that can guard shaq or dwight howard. but the fact is. they are limited and hard to get. so we might as well drop jason collins and add sellers. he might not be ready to play this year, but at least that is somebody we can develope from scratch.. jason collins is done. he’s not gon help in the playoffs and he is definitly not helping right now. all he is good for is waisting fouls, but thats all. he’s even too slow for shaq. now if we trade for somebody,w ho are we gon trade.. it would be stupid to trade a good player for somebody thats going to come off the bench. its stupid to trade mo or zaza or marvin for any bench player.. unless they gon be big man that use to be a all star at one point in there life..
ICECOLD
February 18th, 2010
10:35 am
and mo evens should have got way more playin time. he is good, i believe he should start over marvin williams, they play the same except i think marvin will be better off the bench. just like college… its not a down grade, it wont hurt his feelings,he would be better off the bench… less pressure on him!! then mo would play his best cuz he is gettin more time…let mo shine!!!! lol
AtlSouthside
February 18th, 2010
1:35 pm
Joe Johnson is a keeper. If he goes somewhere else, it’ll be a mistake on his part as well as the Hawks…. especially if he’s not playing for LAL, Orl, Cleve, or Dallas… He would have to end up on a team with another scorer, because Joe can’t single-handedly carry a team…. It’d be a mistake for us because their arent too many SG/SF’s who have an all-around game like Joe’s
AtlSouthside
February 18th, 2010
1:40 pm
BIG RAY, nobody is saying that Horford isn’t good enough to be a Center, he’s simply not built to be a Center. He simply cannot dominate against a legit Center… Last night’s showcase was great, but Clipper’s have no chemistry right now…. Horford doesnt put up 30ppg, especially when he has to play defense. Teams know that the key to beating the Hawks is to attack the basket…. Teams dont win rings with a 6′9 Center
RachaelEvans
February 18th, 2010
1:47 pm
JJ should not be traded. In my humble opinion, I think he’s probably the 7th best basketball player in the league right now. I would only put 6 guys ahead of joe: Carmello Anthony, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce; Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade and LaBron James. Thats it. In my book Joe is #7 and he has the same exact characteristics of the six ahead of him which is why he falls in the top 10. Those guys like Joe dont need anyone to set up their shots. They can create their shot anywhere, anytime with however much time is on the clock, whether its second 1 or 24 in the 24 second clock. They need noone to assist the ball to them because they can create their own shots off the dribble. Joe is a special player and if we lose him, we might as well sell the team and have it move somewhere else because all the other acquisitions will be wasted. Joe Johnson can CARRY the Hawks on his back to an NBA title. No doubt about it. The only doubters out there are those who are unfamilar with his skill sets.
JonasCanfield
February 19th, 2010
1:48 pm
I ONLY HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR ALL THE HAWK FANS OUT THERE. Should the Hawks go on to win the NBA title in June of this year, will the experts in the media continue to ask, “Do the Hawks need to upgrade their talent pool?”
niremetal
February 19th, 2010
2:42 pm
Mark,
You do realize that JJ’s shooting percentage is up significantly, right? And that JJ’s getting less assists has been directly correlated with him playing on the ball less this year because of Jamal Crawford? And you make it sound like he’s chucking the ball with abandon compared to past years, when in reality he is only averaging 0.3 field goal attempts per game more than last year – that is, he is taking 1 more shot every 3 games?
You also don’t seem to understand that there are aspects to basketball besides someone’s bottom line box score averages. You talk about points and rebounds per game as if they are the only measures of a player’s worth. Because that’s the only way that you can say that Marvin is playing worse this year than he did in his 2nd and 3rd years. You do realize that there is an aspect to the game called “defense,” don’t you?
As for Bibby and Williams being traded, look up the salary cap rules before you make it sound like trades are possible. My guess is that you don’t anything about them, based on that and your past suggestions for trades that would violate about 2645536 provisions of the NBA’s collective bargaining agreement.
You don’t know jack sh!t about basketball. You just read the box scores, watch a few nationally televised games, and then talk out of your ass. When will you learn to stick to baseball and college football, and leave the basketball analysis to people who are actually willing to invest the time to learn about it?
niremetal
February 19th, 2010
2:58 pm
Since Feb 1, Bradley has made the following number of posts for each sport:
College Football – 15
Baseball – 9
College basketball – 6
Pro Football – 4
Pro basketball – 3
NASCAR – 1
Yup, that’s right. He wrote more than 5 times as many columns about college football (which is out of season) and 3 times as many about baseball (also out of season) than basketball. He also wrote twice as much about college hoops than pro hoops, even though the Hawks have one of the 5 best records in the NBA and neither Georgia nor Georgia Tech are in the Top 25.
At least have the intellectual honesty to admit that you don’t follow pro basketball very closely and don’t bother to learn much about the workings of pro basketball before you write your columns. It’s just plain sad that there might be people who read your columns and think they actually are based on more than looking at ppg/rpg/apg averages, ESPN highlight reels, and the occasional nationally televised Hawks game.
JackBenson
February 19th, 2010
4:45 pm
The Hawks should not go after Illgoskas. if Illgoskas was so good, Cleveland would not have gotten rid of him. The Hawks should have signed Antoine Jameson before Clevlend did. Either Jameson or Amare Stoudemare. That the Hawks have stood pat clearly shows they care nothing about winning. Tracy McGrady was also available. T-Mac used to be probably the 4th best player in the game behind D-Wade, Labron and Kobe, yet the Hawks did nothing to pursue T-Mac so now he is someone elses property. The Hawks could have traded Pachulia, Bibby and Marvin Williams and could have landed Stoudemire. Now they have the same stale team that goes up and down to the level of their competition.
BirdDawg
February 20th, 2010
4:25 am
Hey Snowman, hopefully you catch this as I am up at 4 in the morning to respond. Before I get started, let me say I’m in the D.C. area as well (although) originally from Atlanta) so believe me, I know how much the people in the area would love to switch basketball teams with Atlanta right now. And your points about the players that those teams had are well received. It is without a doubt, much easier to win a championship with a player like Jordan or Kobe or Pippen, but even those players didn’t reach ultimate success until they had Phil Jackson guiding their teams. Also, I understand that the Lakers had Gasol when they beat the Magic, but if I remember correctly, Bynum was injured during the Finals. My point is, Gasol plays more in the mode of a Dirk Nowitski, not a true center like most Hawks fans seem to think will lift this team to the Finals. I’ve been a fan of this team since the days of Dominique Wilkins and I’ve seen the work that Mike Woodson has done since the beginning and from my observation, this team has improved due to keeping it’s core players together (rest of the NBA should take note that patience is a virtue) not because of his coaching. Honestly, I’m sort of glad the Hawks didn’t draft Deron Williams or Chris Paul because my opinion is that their talents would have been wasted under Woodson whose aversion to playing young players is well documented. Case in point, clearly at this point, even the casual fan can see that Jeff Teague would be a significant upgrade over Bibby, yet Teague continues to sit the bench. Granted, Bibby has more experience, but with his lack of production and his inability to protect the ball at key moment, one would have to surmise that Jeff Teague would not present that much of a drop-off, if at all. The championship coaches show an ability to make in-game adjustments to their game plan and develop personnel. Woodson has not shown this at all. Championship coaches adjust their coaching philosophy to fit their players strengths in order to get the most out of them. Woodson does not (ex. we still use Iso-Joe way too much). I think this team has reached it’s ceiling with Woodson and I can’t see them reaching the level of Cleveland or L.A. with him. A big man would help, but unless we get Dwight Howard (yeah, right) the Hawks won’t see the Eastern Conference Finals or beyond with Woodson at the helm. You make some excellent points Snowman, and honestly, I think the Hawks are one of the top three teams in the league in terms of talent, but to waste that talent on a coach that can’t use it to it’s fullest potential is utter lunacy my man.
Snowman
February 20th, 2010
10:35 pm
Thanks BirdDawg, we can agreed to disagree without being disagreeable (smile and that is cool)!!! We definitely are at polar opposite on coach Woodson and how well he can coach and has coached this team for the last 6 years!!! How many pro basketall coaches record gets better and better every year for the last 6 years? When you say coach has reached the limit of what he can do for this team, then how do they keep getting better every year record wise, how dow did they sweep the Celtics this year, how did they win there 1st round series last season against Dwayne and Miami?
Who are your top 3 choices of coaches to replace a Woodson (and be reasonable, you are not getting Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Pop, or Red Auerbach…smile?).
Finally, if you have been in the DC area for the last few years, then you know the Wizards had Eddie Jordan as their head coach (by the way, Flip Saunders is NOT an upgrade over Eddie Jordan…seriously, he is NOT but that is a debate for another evening…smile) and he had been doing a good job with Arenas, Jamenson, and Butler however when they too could not get over the hump (beat Cleveland or Miami in the playoffs), instead of tweaking the lineup or getting other pieces to help Eddie, they just would stand pat and “hope” (hope!!!!…what!!!) they would get better the next year. They would also screw up their draft picks and as a result the Wizards fired Eddie and are currently a mess but it was not an Eddie Jordan problem, in my opinion, but a GM problem!!!! That team should have been tweaked or pieces traded to get other pieces to make the team better. Now, as I tie that back to Atlanta, Marvin, ZSA ZSA, and Mo should have been moved to get us a 3 that we so desperately need!!! A real 3 a good 3….we desperately need a 3 (a Caron Butler or Tayshaun Prince type for example) would have been a huge asset and upgrade for us…again just my opinion. Thanks BirdDawg for the exchange but you are completely wrong about Woody and if you MUST take a shot, you should take a shot at the GM and wonder what the heck he is doing to help this club, RIGHT NOW?…Love the Hawks!!!…Go Hawks and I hate to be too critical because I really like what they are doing!!!
BirdDawg
February 20th, 2010
11:21 pm
Snowman,
Nothing wrong with disagreement. There would be no reason for blogs if we all agreed on everything, lol. I respect your opinion, and don’t get me wrong, I do realize that Mike Woodson has done some decent things for this team. I just feel the drawbacks of his coaching outweigh the benefits. I also agree with you that the Hawks could use some pieces (and give Rick Sund time, he just took over and he did get us Jamal Crawford for practically nothing)however, looking at this team, I think the Hawks have the talent right now to be much better than they are. To Woodson’s benefit, they have improved every year since he’s been here, but to the teams’ detriment, they are still losing games the same way they were when he first got here, just not as often. That is coaching, not players. As good as the Hawks are, slight tweaks in his coaching philosophy could have this team up about 5-7 more wins than where they are now. I agree with you about Eddie Jordan, also. I think given more time and a maybe a defensive stopper, he could have done wonders with the Wizards. He got a raw deal and was blamed for their inability to beat Cleveland. That being said, other than Byron Scott, I wouldn’t mind seeing Eddie walking the Hawks sideline either. I think Byron got the same raw deal as Eddie and he did a lot for a team that featured one superstar and a few talented role players. The Hawks have one superstar, 3 potential superstars and several talented role players. Lack of size is not an excuse. Even though they are smaller at center than most teams, they are bigger across the board than most teams also. A starting lineup with a 6′7″ shooting guard, three players at least 6′9″ tall, and a super talented sixth man that is 6′4″ tall will always have matchups that can be exploited. Woodson just doesn’t know how to exploit them. What Horford lacks in size, he makes up for with speed, quickness and a pretty good mid-range shot. Woodson could use him much the way Chuck Daly used Bill Laimbeer with great success during the Pistons championship runs. Probably more so since Horford is much quicker than Laimbeer ever was. I long to see Shaq or Dwight Howard try to guard him or Smoove on the perimeter. That would also take a major defensive presence out of the middle in both cases giving Jamal and Joe clearer paths to the basket. Or maybe try using Joe Johnson in the post since there are few guards in the league big enough to guard him there. Or instead of Iso-Joe or Iso-Jamal in crunch time, use one to set up the other or use one to set up the other as a decoy to take a man away from Josh Smith cutting to the basket. These are just a few examples of the many ways Woodson will under-coach a game and it’s frustrating. I won’t blame Woodson for all the Hawks problems, at the same time, I won’t hold him blameless for this team not being as good as it could be either. But along with you, I will continue to be a Hawks fan regardless of whether Woodson stays or goes. I love the team and glad to see them enjoying major success for the first time in a very long time. I like what they are doing as well, I just feel that with the talent they have, they could be so much better.
Darrin "The Vent King"
February 21st, 2010
3:34 pm
This is the best assessment I’ve read in awhile concerning the Hawks. A lot of these things point to why Woodson needs to replaced- he is NOT good. Doesn’t develop the young talent (he is doing Teague worse than Acie Law), only one play in his pocket (”Iso-Joe” is killing me!) at the end of the game, no offensive imagination whatsoever, and it appears some of the guys have tuned him out. Sund has a lot of work ahead of him. This team wins on youth and athleticism, not Woodson coaching. I got luv for this squad but they are not going to get to that championship level with this Woodson, he is just not the one-sorry. They win despite him.
Darrin "The Vent King"
February 21st, 2010
3:37 pm
And btw- all this “well they’ve improved every year under him” dung needs to stop. When you start out winning only THIRTEEN freaking games one season…you have only have UP to go.
BirdDawg
February 21st, 2010
5:18 pm
Well said, Vent King. I agree with you 100%. The bench loses heart and focus because of his coaching. Teague, Joe Smith, Maurice Evans, Zaza Pachulia and Mario West can all be significant contributors and all their talent is being wasted on Woodson. Teague’s career will be tossed away just like Acie Law if they don’t replace him after this season. Come playoff time, the starters will again be worn down by the end of the first round and probably get swept in the second again if Woodson doesn’t get it together quickly. He deserves little credit for this teams improvement over the years and much blame for this team not being real championship contenders right now. It’s past time for Mike Woodson to go.
ICECOLD
February 21st, 2010
8:00 pm
……………………..it is true that the hawks have been gettin better as far as they record every year. but that is only true because of the athleticism of the hawks.. you finally have a proven point guard in mike bibby, a super star shootin guard, a young and very good defender and can score the ball small forward, a power foward who is young and should have been a all-star who does it all… literally!!! does it all.. then a small center ( yep i made up his position.. lol) that is a all-star and is a double double machine.. plus i like his spot up jump shot… (anyway) , and a six man of the year ( he will be ) that is a pure scorer……. all these peices and i see the same plays over and over again, where josh is at the top of the key and passes the ball to mike bibby, and then joe johnson is posting somebody up.. then it starts iso-joe…. the whole entire game!!!! its so much talent in the one through six man!!! and mo evans can defend and is a good three point shooter, and joe smith play hard , and zaza who plays hard ( i really dont see talent after that, but thats all u need) and all u do is the same iso-joe play, its so predictable and teams know that.. its not like phils triangle offense thats proven to work, its iso-joe, i mean he is good but he does have his off days… but any way.. we should not have a coach that continues to do this, he like woodson and what he (helped do) , because they really would have did it if they went out there and played street ball, because its one of the best starting five in the league.. and six man… if we dont get a better coach, its gon get to a point where that record gon peak at its best, then its gon steady get lower and lower, good job woodson, now u can go coach the bob cats or something, u deserve a job.. but atlanta needs a championship desperately and he is not the coach that is going to do that.. sorry.. thats the truth!!! icecold truth