Bradley’s Buzz: ESPN’s Buster doesn’t love Braves’ rotation

I’ve waited so long for that honor. Life is now complete… I agree, too many question marks with the rotation and lineup going into the season.

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Come on, Mark. You’re not really surprised by this, are you? You’ve been saying this – and many of your readers have as well.

Everyone wanted to praise Frank Wren for the 2009 rotation he put together. What they didn’t realize – at least not at first – was that it would not be possible for that rotation to remain intact for 2010. Now, Javier Vazquez is gone. Wren traded away an Opening Day starter and failed to get as much as an everyday position player in return.

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Enter your comments here

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Guess we’ll pull another rabbit out the hat, or should I say another Tommy Hanson out of the minors this year. Ratings are sometimes overrated.

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Who cares! Let’s see them pitch and then decide. You reporters must be bored out of your mind right now to come up with this garbage. Go BRAVES!!!!!!

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I would like to hear from those who were so PO’ed that Vazquez was brought in for Flowers etc last year. If the young arms brought in work out down the road then it was a good trade. If Vazquez crashes and burns this year (he’s done it before) then it was a good trade. Who really knows?

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You are correct. It is a huge gamble. But…. blame it on ownership and Lowe. Derrick Lowe and poor worth relative to his contract are the reason they couldn’t trade him. Same with Kawikami.

A caring ownership would have retained Vasquez contract and found a Left Fielder and First Baseman.

The move was made primarily as a cost saver for the bottom line, you know it. I know it. Frank Wren knows it. They had to move someone and Vasquez was the only one with real value so they got what they could and publically they will pretend much like that they did not weaken the product.

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Sonny Clusters,

You must have bobbycoxia below the belt or in the brain then. Bobbo’s pitchers are certainly not the only ones to suffer arm problems. But I’d venture to guess this comment falls on deaf ears.

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So, Roy Hallady makes up for an absolutely awful Jamie Moyer and a slumping cole hamels? Not to mention that the guy they claim to be so consistent (Blanton) had a worse ERA than Kawakami. Hanson and Jurrjens are a 1-2 that is equal to the Angels, Chi Sox and Boston. Besides, didn’t the Braves #5 starter, Kawakami, go toe-to-toe w/ the great Roy Halladay last year and win? I think so. I wasn’t aware that there were 6 other teams that could slide a sub-4.00 ERA into the #5 spot. Buster is wrong and so is Mark (no shocker there)

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He’s smoking serious crack with the 5A selection though. That’s freaking ridiculous. Cole Hamels should be awesome, but we don’t know where he is mentally. Blanton and Happ are average. Jamie Moyer is 400 years old.

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While Hudson has been a consistently good pitcher throughout his career, he can be injury prone and, while he may still yet have another really good season or two left in his arm, I don’t think he can be depended on as a top-of-the-rotation starter. I definitely hold out hope that he will pitch lights-out this year and be one of the league’s feel-good stories, but truthfully if that happens it’s because the Braves were very fortunate, not because of sound decision-making of the part of Frank Wren. The cost cutting and personnel moves have been annual gambles by him and Liberty Media that things will hold together just enough to remain competitive and profitable; the atmosphere of winning it all being the standard goal has evaporated.

A lie that we and other smaller markets have come to be deceived by is that we can build a perennial contender out of our farm system. “Let this or that established player go in exchange for a promising young prospect”; sound familiar? Fifteen or twenty years ago, that was absolutely true and the Braves were the model example of it by such acquisitions as John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander and bringing up a slew of great talent, many now headed for Cooperstown. But the current nature of the game and the runaway costs of free agency have turned the tables to where now, the smaller markets themselves (in fact, let’s face it, all but about three or four markets in the league) have become the farm systems for richer teams like the Yankees to come in at will during free agency and reap the benefits that the other teams have taken years to develop and mature. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if say, seven or eight years from now we see Vizcaino, the prospect we got in exchange for Vazquez, donning a Yankees uniform, along with other current Braves prospects.

We need to get past the “that’s the way it is” mentality throughout baseball and do whatever it takes to restore competitive balance in free agency (even if it means restricting PLAYER SALARIES; don’t dare call that communist or oppressive when those guys say they feel entitled to seven figures or more per year and a tenth of our country are currently out of work and most of the rest struggle just to make ends meet…don’t, because if this economy hasn’t hit you yet it very likely will soon). If things don’t change, while it won’t happen overnight, eventually it will mean the extinction of many smaller market franchises and possibly even MLB itself. NOTHING, including sports and entertainment, are recession-proof, folks.

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MB:

When it comes to slamming the imbecile that is Frank Wreck, all I can say is that you are the man! He is a boob of the highest order. He tries to sell us on Melky Cabrera. Does he think we’re all idiots? What a jerk.

HT

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Intelligent response Herschel…do you buy tix to games? Or just troll the internet spewing hate?

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Yeah, Herschel, way to add to the conversation.

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MB, the rotation is the least of my concerns. Does it really surprise you that somebody from espn has the Red Sox and Yankees 1-2? There are so many questions about the Braves rotation but I guess those questions don’t apply to Boston and New York. The Sox got Lackey and Daisuke coming off of injury years and the Yanks got A.J. (who is the ultimate enigma), Joba, and Pettite. How does that rotation have less questions then the Braves? Go up and down the list and tell me who you would rather have, 1) Hudson, CC, or Beckett? CC hands down. 2) Lester, Burnett, or JJ? JJ very close over Lester. 3) Hanson, Pettite, or Lackey? Hanson and it’s not even close IMO. 4) Lowe, Javy, or Daisuke? Javy, but his numbers are really not that impressive for his career, he has certainly had worse years than D-Lowe had last year 5) Joba, Buccholz, or KK? Prolly Buccholz for the same reasons I like Hanson. Now, by my logic the Braves are better than the Yanks and maybe just a step below the Sox because I like Wakefield and the minor league depth a little better. But top to bottom, I’ll take the Braves over any other staff. KK is clearly better than the “someone else” the Cards will trot out and the fact that Freddy Garcia, Brad Penny and Jamie Moyer are on the lists of the top five staffs is a joke. What about San Fran and the Rays?

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I wouldn’t trade our rotation for anybody’s in the MLB, saying that I must point out that Frank Wren is still an idiot trading Vasquez for a couple of bottle waters

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does not matter what the rotation looks like,check out that weak outfield,worst in baseball.everyone uses a lot of if’s when talking about the infield,if the 1stbaseman stays health,if chipper stays health,what if prado has a good yr.to many if’s.what if hudson stays healthy,after jj and hanson,u basically got an average pitching staff to go along with no run support=LAST PLACE.Hello basement here we come.believe it.liberty group has got 2 turn this team over to someone who wants to win.not save money and charge 12 bucks a beer.and 6 bucks a hot dog.Come on man.at those prices we should b able to afford one bopper in the outfield.

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Buster doesn’t get out of the NE, and he is no Gammons….don’t know where he moved in and took over as baseball’s pre-eminent source for info.

If I need Sox/Yanks insight, he’ll be the first I look to…otherwise…

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Wow..Yankees and Sox at the top(suprise). It’s not like ESPN gets on its knees to sell to those two markets…oh, wait a minute. Give me a break. Can you really rely someone name Buster? It’s all about getting people to register and those two markets DRIVE baseball. Beat it, Buster…

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we need our Swagger back, give me a break, stop putting the Phillies on a pedestal, I don’t care how good you think they are, to me they will always be the bottom dwelling Phillies from Veteran’s stadium. If you treat them like crap you will have some confidence to win.

I repeat The Phillies are garbage, regardless of going to two straight world series

one more thing….please stop pitching Ryan Howard outside where he can get his hands extended.

I can count on 2 hands how many times Ryan Howard has single handily won the game with an outside pitch.

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I wish we’d been able to trade DLowe instead of Vazquez, but it is what it is. Lowe will be serviceable and we still have JJ, Hanson, and Hudson. Kawakami is more than adequate in the 5 slot. I’ll take it. Let’s just hope nobody gets hurt!

But boy doesn’t out-of-state corporate ownership suck?

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Buster went to Vandy…Whoop T. Stephan Maurberry and Dennis Scott went to Tech and Bush went to Yale. Just so you’ll know…

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I like Olney, but the White Sox at number 3 with Peavy at the top of the rotation? He is a much bigger question mark in my opinion than Hudson. And the Phillies at 5A? Halladay is a true number one- Hamels could be a great number 2 IF he returns to 2008 form. But I would take the any bottom 3 of the Braves rotation easily over the Phillies bottom 3. Kawakami over Moyer- D. Lowe over Blanton- Hanson or Hudson easily ove Happ. So, I guess that is why they will play the games.

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We got NOTHING for Vazquez and depending on Hudson to regain his Oakland form. Ain’t happening ! Kawakami is average; Lowe is average. Hansen & Jurrjens are only reliable studs. Medlin should get a shot at starting instead of being wasted in the bullpen. Third place at best !

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Kawakami had some of the best #s in baseball from July on…Lowe pitched well in 3/4 of his starts…and Vazquez never before and never again will have the season he did last year.

People on here know nothing…read some more box scores….idiots.

Count on Huddy for 14 wins and a sub 4 ERA…not bad for your #4….buncha negative putos and pendejos here.

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“Wren has us positioned very well for the future, with a very good chance to earn a playoff spot this year.”

Again this year major question marks on offense and the bullpen. Anyone you can go into the year knowing for sure what they’ll do? I guess the closest thing would be Mcann, but that’s not a good sign when your best player is the catcher.
1b/3b injury prone players. One playing 1b for the first time.
2b first year as a starter
ss pretty solid
cf hoping for a bounce back year
lf/rf filled by 4th outfielders or a rookie

Bullpen
8th/9th inning guys – 39/40 year olds both had major surgeries in the last couple years.

A lot of question marks for this team, just like last year…

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Of course Buster is right–with Vasquez, the Braves had one of the best rotations in MLB. Also, Wren has weakened the pen by letting Soriano go. The guys he has added for offense are very average hitters–so no additional offense to offset the weaker pitching. At best, the Braves are a second place team. How Wren keeps his job continues to amaze me. Is he related to a key Liberty Media executive? Or is it that he is just what Liberty Media wants in that job—a compliant yes man/lap dog/lackey.

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The relievers being old and off of surgery doesn’t concern me for this year. Most times, guys coming off those surgeries are fresh. Look at Moylan throwing a team record for appearances 11 months removed from TJ…

Wagner is a rude little specimen with great mechanics. I expect 45 saves.

Saito has never been less than nasty. I expect our best 8th inning guy since Remlinger.

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Are you guys saying we should have kept all six of our starting pitchers (since we couldn’t get rid of Lowe) and just not signed anyone else this year?

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I hope “Chuck” is right b/c according to him the Braves should finish about 122-40 with everyone having career years.

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To anyone that worries about Wagner and Saito. Did you EVER feel secure with our bullpen the last two years? Gonzo and Soriano both came off of surgery themselves in the last 2 seasons and they have yet to ever produce a full season as a dominant closer. When Soriano was on, he was nasty but how many game winning HR’s did he give up last year? How many times did Gonzo come in walk the first 2 guys and squeak out of the inning with a K and double play? Too often for me!!

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We signed Melky Cabrera in the offseason. All of our prayers have been answered.

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MB:

I’m glad you don’t have a problem with Wreck. But I do. Troy Glaus is a disgraced ex-roid user and should be nowhere near first base. His idea of acquiring a big bat is Glaus and Hinske. Meanwhile, who is our leadoff hitter? Why isn’t he getting Johnny Damon? He signs Billy Wagner because he thinks Soriano won’t accept arbitration. Then Soriano does. Then he gets on sports talk radio and tells us that it won’t be a problem unloading Soriano because the market for closers had barely gotten going (which was affirmed by his ability to dump Soriano rather quickly). Well, Frank, if the market for closers had barely gotten going, then what was the urgency to sign Wagner before waiting to see if Soriano would accept? So he aged our bullpen by a ton, for similar money as we paid for Gonzo and Soriano. The man is an arrogant jerk and a putz.

HT

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Listing the Phils in that top 6 is absurd. Olney loses credibility with that one.

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If you fans are confused and angry, find solace in the fact that I don’t understand my bone headed trades either.

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Chuck – if the piece was Vizcaino, which is a fair point, then he should not be so arrogant not to tell us that it’s about dumping salary and getting prospects like the Pirates and Royals do. If he’s hamstrung because corporate is dictating such, then keep it real, and I think most of us will accept that he is hamstrung. But he tells us how great a piece Cabrera was in NY, and how much he’ll add to our team. Meanwhile, Cabrera hit 12 HRs in the new Yankee Stadium, in a year I believe the Yankees set a team record for HRs (you can correct that if it’s wrong). Some piece we got there. We all know it’s a salary dump, so he should not be so arrogant to assume we won’t see through his nonsense.

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I agree the PR is posturing nonsense…but we are smart enough to know as fans that cap relief was chief…i don’t need him to tell me.

Not sure how many ABs he got to hit those 12, if it was 400 or more or not…i need to look it up. But i don’t think he’ll be around for long.

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I offer you the following tidbit:

“On August 12, 1987, the Atlanta Braves dealt pitcher Doyle Alexander to the Detroit Tigers for minor league pitcher John Smoltz.”

If I recall correctly, A – Smoltz was a year out of high school and B – Alexander was the Braves ace.

I am not saying the Vazquez for Vizcaino trade will be just as rich for the Braves. But lets see Vizcaino in two or three years.

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Mark,

Im still waiting on a trade scenario?

Or are you just dodging that question with the “dont trade either” comment?

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CJ,

Wren did “go get us a hitter in his 20’s”….it wasnt a trade, it wasnt a free agent, it was doing NOTHING to block Jason Heyward or Freddie Freeman from their path to the pro’s!

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I wish we could all play with “Yankees money”. You had to know someone was going. Sorry, it had to be Vazquez. Hopefully, they use that money wisely.

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Buster Olney has no credibility? The Braves have not seen a post-season since 2005; or World Series in 11 years. The Braves and their fans have ZERO credibility. You can only milk the “14 Consecutive division championships” nonsense for so long. That doesn’t play in NY, Boston or Philly. Nowhere but Atlanta do division crowns count for anything.

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CJ,

Im not so harsh on Wren, the man has a budget from crappy ownership, and deals with a fanbase that wont sell out a playoff game.

There are huge financial benefits to keeping these guys down in AAA until a certain date. Thats why Medlen came up before Hanson last year (his ceiling is lower and so will be his next contract).

That may be the only benefit from keeping Heyward down to start this year, they seem to WANT him to make the team and make an impact! I dont expect FF until 2011, barring an exceptional start at gwinnett and injuries to the big club.

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I agree with CJ, we should have at least got someone under 30 that has actually not platooned with someone else and has been a starter for once. I know we have a budget and blah blah blah but c’mon every GM in the league could have at least got 1 player that could have been more than a backup/platoon guy for one of the best pitchers in the NL. Heck, if he had some run support this year, Javy might have won the Cy Young. I dont care if the prospects might be the greatest on earth (usually with the NY media, every Yankees prospect is) if they are 19 years old, then they arent going to do you much good anytime soon and by the time they are the team will be totally different and have new issues to deal with so its better to get at least a prospect that has played AAA or AA ball so you know they can come up to the big leagues sometime in the next 2 years. Way to go Wren, quit taking advice from Don Waddell…

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Knockahoma,

It does suck to see Wainwright doing so well for the Cards but he was only a prospect and JD Drew had a great season as a Brave and helped us continue our playoff run. That seems to qualify as a good trade for both teams…although, I wish management would have had more foresight (like they seem to now) and started to rebuild instead of trading young talent for another “shot” at the postseason. The Tex trade is another example of that.

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I think ol’ Buster’s logic is kind a skewed. How can he put Boston #1? Wasn’t DiceK hurt most of last year and have arm problems and isn’t Wakefield as old as Niekro?

Yankees have Pettite who is a dinosaur and is Phil Hughes a proven commodity?

Chris Carpenter and Brad Penny are waiting for their arms to fall off.

JA Happ was a rookie last year and may never approach that level again and Jamie Moyer is first cousins to Methusala.

The Braves rotation has a chance to be as good or better than any of these.

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I’m thrilled that the Braves were able to help the Yankees make it into the top 3 rotations. Maybe next we can help the Red Sox beef up their lineup by giving them Chipper or Escobar for a lobster roll and a bag of balls.

Is it too late to trade Wren to the Royals for Dayton Moore?

On another note, I see that Jermaine Dye is still looking for a contract. If the Braves are really that interested in another outfielder (which I presume they are with all of the write-ups on Damon), why don’t the Braves spend a few million on a bat that will actually benefit the lineup with some HRs?

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Mark,

Im still waiting for your expertise??

PLEASE give me another scenario of ANY trade Wren could have done? We can leave Javy and Lowe out of it.

You are quick to bash his moves but never offer any other suggestions.

Im waiting…

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1eyedjack… turn the Bravo-colored glasses around for a second. You’ll see that:

1) Lowe is old and coming off of his worst season ever, possibly a sign that he’s well past his prime. (Another red flag is that no one would sniff at his contract in a trade)

2) Hudson is coming off of tommy john and is “waiting for his arm to fall off” as you like to say.

3) KK is old, unpredictable, and has not shown that he can be a consistent starter in the US.

4) Hanson was a rookie last season, just like JA Happ.

At this rate, JJ is the only solid bet that the Braves have. Based on last season’s performance (which is the closest thing to compare to the upcoming season), Vasquez was even more of a lock to be the best pitcher on this team. People seem to forget that if he had any run support in 2009, Vasquez would have likely won well over 20 games and probably won the Cy Young.

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Fire Frank Wren. This was one of the most half-@ssed attempts at constructing a team I’ve ever seen. We were a good offseason from being a legitimate contender to win the National League, and Wren instead made us worse for no apparent reason (it wasn’t like payroll was considerably slashed).

I just don’t feel good about this team. Too much has to go right. Our big offseason moves (Hudson, Glaus, Wagner) were all on guys coming off major injuries. Maybe if Chipper bounces back with a big year, and if Glaus gives us the power we’re craving, and if JJ Jurrjens and Hanson don’t have a dropoff then we’ll have a shot at the playoffs. But this team looks like a house of cards to me.

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Ok is it just me but does anyone else think that its stupid to act like DLowe isn’t gonna be better than last year without a doubt… i mean yea he had a bad year but in ‘02 he posted a 2.58 ERA, then went on to post a 4.42 ERA the next year, only to bounce back with two years of an ERA in the 3.60’s and I think Cole Hamels, who had a huge dropoff, was as much of a disappointment as DLowe but apparently this list doesnt think so. I’d rather have the veteran who has already proved he can bounce back, rather than Hamels who might not be as good as people thought. Either way, Roy Halladay is better than any of the braves starters (until Hanson reaches his potential) but JJ is better than any of the other Phillies guys. Hanson over JJHapp anyday. Also, KK (braves’ number 5) had better stats that all but one of Joe Blantons (phill’s number 3) seasons and I would take KK over Jamie Moyer, too. As Hudson, I think other than ’06 he has been good in atl. From 07-08 he had good stats, including ERAs under 3.30, he just never met his wins total from Oakland, but this is when the braves offense sucked worse than now. I think I could also make cases against the Braves being better than some of the other rotations, as well, but I don’t have time… Fluid Mechanics test tomm…..

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HT,

His decision to trade a SP was more on the fact that he wanted the security and price of Hudson for the next 3 years instead of the HOPE that J.vaz could repeat 2009 again (his career numbers say otherwise) and if he came close we wouldnt be able to afford him anyway!

So you expect the GM of a team to say “Well, lets see here, all I could get was some 4th OF named Melky something or other, and some prospects” NO, he wont do that! Baseball is a business and Liberty is his Boss, he cannot bad mouth his boss or he would get fired. Your requests for honesty are unreasonable. If Wren was your friend and he told you lies than you should be offended…but assuming he isnt. Quit expecting him to disclose all of his jobs details to us.

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The (thin) reasoning: That Javier Vazquez was unlikely to have such a season again

Its not that thin. He wont.

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NCbravesFan, I’ve gotta disagree with your comparing Damon and Dye to Church and Anderson. Damon and Dye are both coming off above average offensive seasons (100+ OPS+). When we acquired Church he was clearly never the same guy after his severe concussion, and Anderson had been a pretty useless player for a couple of years.

It’s probably a moot point to be discussing since Wren seems to have dug his heels in and is maintaining that the roster reconstruction is pretty much complete, but Damon would bring a lot to our offense. God forbid we add a guy with solid on-base skills and decent power at a bargain-basement price.

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Mark: Why are you so up in arms over this trade? I understand that Javier Vazquez had an excellent year for us last year, but do you realize the man has had only two back-to-back winning seasons in his 12 year career? His overall career record is 142-139 with a 4.19 ERA and his W-L% is .505. These stats are pretty pedestrian. I believe the Braves are in good hands and I am tired of you guys playing Monday morning quarterback. Have trust in the Braves’ management. After all, they won 14 straight Division titles, not you or Buster Olney!

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Gimme a break, Hudson as good as Vasquez, no way even when Hudson can stay off the DL with Chipper he couldn’t carry Vasquezs glove

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I don’t have a problem with the Vazquez trade even though I don’t like the short term results. We got burned a few times too many in the past with short term returns (i.e. J.D. Drew trade). The modern day Braves act much more like a small market team with limited resources even though that is painful to watch sometimes. If we really thought that we had a legitimate shot to resign Vazquez at a discount price then perhaps this was a gamble not worth taking, but I don’t know if that was feasible or not. If Vazquez had another great year with us this year then could we have afforded to sign him to a big, long term contract? We will need those resources in the next few years to sign some of the young players. Signing Hudson was really what drove Vazquez away and then the inability to trade Lowe. But, what are the odds that Lowe will have another stinker year while Vazquez has another stellar year. With this being said, if you don’t have Vizcaino in the trade then it is a real stinker. There are still some major what ifs to this team in terms of health and production, but if we stay healthy I think we’ll be very competitive.

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NC, I’m actually kind of with you on Dye. I don’t think he’d be enough of an upgrade over Melky/Heyward to be worth whatever he’d cost, and I definitely wouldn’t want him taking at-bats away from Diaz, who is clearly the better hitter at this point in their careers.

Damon makes perfect sense to me, though, if the reports that he’s going to have to settle for $3M are true. While his numbers clearly got a boost from the new Yankee Stadium, he did post a very solid .795 OPS in road games last year, and he had a 118 OPS+ in his last season in the old ballpark.

Damon is still a very dependable ballplayer who would bring plate discipline and power, both things that I think we can all agree the Braves could use more of. He’d also allow us to be a bit more patient with Heyward. I really can’t see a downside (other than his mediocre defense), so it’s puzzling to me why we haven’t been more aggressive in going after him.

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Hudson’s the pitcher who shoulda been dealt. Period.

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NC fan Hudson probably won’t have a year like Vasquezs last year either and he is showing signs of making regular trips to the DL. but the Braves do prefer older players

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Truth, I cant argue that the Braves currently have anyone better suited for LF and leadoff than Damon, but I dont think he will go anywhere for 3mil, as wishfully reported by some AJC reporters.

I think that Melky/Diaz will offer just as much to the team as Damon would. I think his days as a speedy leadoff man are behind him. The guy can hit, no doubt about it, but it really helps to be surrounded by future HOF players such as Jeter, Tex, and Arod. If I was a pitcher and had to choose my poison in that group…it wouldnt even be a choice, I know who would be getting the fastballs!

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It’s funny to me to hear the way some of you talk about Kawakami. You’d think he was throwing batting practice based on some of the comments. The guy gave up 3 ER or fewer in 19 of his last 21 starts. KK was rock solid, he just was victimized by horrific run support. I’m actually not worried about him at all. He’s a veteran who knows how to keep runs off the board. As long as he still has pretty decent stuff, he’ll be effective.

I’m more worried about Lowe. I’m not sure why everyone is so convinced he’s going to bounce back. His stuff is eroding fast.

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Huddy went down for a year long injury, came back in 12 months, and pitched well in 7 appearances…this injury prone BS is retarded.

As for the trade, do you not think Wren beat the bushes? First off, JV didn’t want to go west of the MS, and told teams he wouldn’t re-sign, so that fuct us. Second of all, the salary scares away half the franchises (even on a one year rental) or do you guys not pay attn to the economy?

I guess half of you don’t have jobs, and don’t know the value of money. The team that dealt for him needed assurances that he would re-sign. Or be like the Yanks, who are looking to cut salary again next year.

When the Yanks are looking to cut salary, and the Sox are being financially prudent, you have to understand the climate you are operating in.

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just because you’re not alone doesn’t make you any less wrong, Mark.

If Cole Hamels is like he was last year, then the Braves clearly have the best rotation in the NL. Cardinals? They don’t even have a 5th penciled in yet. Does anyone think their 5th starter will be better than Hanson or Kawakami? Laughable. Lowe had a “terrible” year last year and won 15 games. Vazquez has a career ERA over 4 (last year was 2.87) yet everyone thinks he’ll repeat that? He is an innings and K machine. I’ve loved that about him all along and was very supportive of his signing when it happened.

All that time the same people who are complaining about him being traded now were complaining when we traded for him. Fact is, everybody loves to hate on the Braves front office because they’ve had to make tough decisions with our big name players AND they only win the WS once. That is, apparently, the front offices’ fault.

Fact is, I think both Lowe and Vazquez will return to their respective forms this year… Lowe as a ground-ball inducing machine with another 15 or so wins and an ERA around 3.20 and Vazquez as his usual 200+ IP, 200+ K, 10-10, 4.00 ERA self. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is. I’ll take Tim Hudson every day of the week of Javier Vazquez right now.

Do I wish the Braves could have gotten more for Javy coming off a great year? yes. And it is Wren’s fault for signing Lowe to an untradable deal last year. But I do not fault him for trading Vazquez in favor of Hudson.

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Actually Truthseeker & NC, I think Diaz compares favorably to Damon. First off, you have to throw out the 24 HR thing because that’s a statistical outlyer for Damon’s career. He’s more like a 15 HR guy in a normal ballpark. But other than that, over the time that Diaz has been in the big leagues he has a higher batting avg, OBP and SLG than Damon. Plus he hits righthanded which is necessary to keep the lineup balanced. If the Braves didn’t think Heyward was ready, then signing Damon would make a lot of sense. But if you expect Heyward to make the team as the starting RF, I just don’t see adding another OF to the team to take at bats away from Diaz.

Of course, if the Braves did sign Damon now, they could see how Heyward does and if he made the club, the Braves would have the ability to trade McLouth or Melky, let the one they keep play CF, Diaz in RF and Damon in LF. Then bring Heyward along later, or see how Jordan Schafer plays at Gwinnett for a couple months.

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Skeezix, if you were around to remember the Alexander trade then you should remember that he was an All-star pitcher and proceeded to go 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA to propel the Tigers to the division title that season. He was not a has been, he was a 36 year old veteran traded for a 20 year old prospect. Very similar to the Javy deal. Lets hope for similar results!

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It might be too much to assume coming off of surgery, that Hudson will dominate (or even last long enough to think about dominating, for that matter).

But look at the numbers in 2008. Other than the K totals, when Hudson went down, (22 starts I believe – been round and round on this topic on DOB’s blog), Hudson was every bit as dominating as Vazquez was through the same amount of starts. And he (Hudson) was doing it on a bum elbow. In his last start before shutting down for TJ surgery, Hudson pitching 6 shutout innings with 6 K’s. Then realized the pain was too much and missed a year because of it.

Would Hudson’s final 2 months of 2008, been as good as Vazquez’s was, leading to an ERA under 3.00? I don’t know, but on September 2nd, Vazquez’s ERA was 3.16. Tim Hudson’s 2008 season ended on July 23rd with a 3.17 ERA.

So, I’m not so sure why (if healthy) people aren’t sold that Tim Hudson “can’t” live up to what Vazquez did last year?

The only real issue I have with the swap of Huddy for Javy is the defense. Vazquez is a “miss the bat” pitcher, and our defense other than Escobar isn’t anything special. Switching for Javy to a guy that pitches to contact, brings the need to have solid defense behind him.

Not so sure we have that. Which is cause for concern. But not Hudson’s ability to get people out on a regular basis if he’s healthy.

After all park adjustments are calculated, Tim Hudson and Vazquez will have stats that are very similar to each other at season’s end, and Wren will have saved 2.5 million dollars along the way. 2.5 million dollars that might just go towards adding Johnny Damon to the mix.

Would it have been more ideal for Wren to save MORE money and move Lowe, while keeping both Vazquez and Hudson? Sure. You’d have to be a moron to think other wise. But he couldn’t. And due to being desperate enough to HAVE TO sign Lowe before last year, Wren is now sleeping in the bed he made.

If Hudson goes down and Vazquez pitches 200+ innings for the Stankees, then Wren will look like a fool and his gamble will have failed. But if Hudson is healthy enough to pitch around 200 innings, I’m 100 percent confident that his season will be every bit as good as Vazquez’s was last year. Or at least as good as his 2008 was before going down.

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Truthseeker, didn’t mean to imply you knocked Diaz.

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When your Power-hitting-RBI-producing-Long-Ball-Monster-First-basement is Adam LaRoche, “The Sequel”?…it is TIME to trade some abundance in pitching to acquire it. However, Melky Cabrera isn’t exactly what we had in mind Frank. .

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The Tigers coveted Mike Dunn in the Granderson trade, but didn’t get him. I would like to flip Dunn and Melky Church to the Tigers for Wilkin Ramirez.

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Truthseeker,

Glad to see somebody else come to Kawakami’s defense. The guy was solid.

I keep telling people he pitched quite well after April, and had some dominating games especially against top tier starters. He beat Roy Halladay, Johan Santana and Dice K last season. I doubt any other pitcher in the bigs can boast a trifecta that impressive that wasn’t named Roy or Johan.

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Dragonslayer-san…

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Acquiring Melky and a POSSIBLE future major leaguer for Vazquez is like acquiring a spare tire and a case of oil for a carburetor, when your car doesn’t have a steering wheel.

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NC…except we KNOW Laroche can play a good defensive first base.

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Can I take some bets on how well JV is going to perform this year?

Let’s set the ERA over under at 4.20…and the win total at 13…i am going over and over…and then i am predicting he doesn’t even get to start a game in the playoffs.

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If Adam Dunn can play 1b than Troy Glaus (who had the highest fielding % of ALL 3b in 2008) can do a decent job. Especially when you give him a whole offseason to practice. I agree that if we threw Chipper on 1b he might struggle initially but he would come around. I have faith in Troy.

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chuck- Of course he won’t be as good this year. He’s playing at Yankee Stadium at Williamsport and he’s facing an extra hitter in each lineup. Win totals are a farce when judging a pitcher.

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Jesse…why….his year in STL was great prior to the injury? I am flummoxed. Your friend drinks too much of the Budweiser.

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That was 2 years ago. Who knows how truly healthy he is? He had some Pujols guy batting around him.

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I think JJ thinks more on the mound…and has better control of his stuff…and pitches better to contact, so he can scheme thru a lineup a little better.

outright stuff, it’s hard to argue with JV’s year last year…i haven’t seen him throw like that consistently for the 10 years i’ve seen him….

He has a touch of the Bret Saberhagen disease, on some years, and then disappointingly off the next.

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Well, if Chipper returns to form, that is a pretty nice guy in front to get him some looks, and Esco is one of the best hitters in the NL with RISP…so that’s your 3 and your 6, with Mac probably hitting 5th…not a bad bunch of guys who make regular contact. Heyward may bat 7th…Diaz 8th…

If all these guys have reasonably good years, it will be far more support than even Pujols by himself could provide.

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IF Chipper returns to form…IF Glaus is healthy…IF Heyward proves he’s ready… He also had Ludwick hitting around him as well.

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Monty hit the nail on the head re: the sad part of the JV trade…we all had higher hopes.

But looking at what we got, what we have left in the rotation, we really have no reason for sour grapes. We just need to exercise patience, or flip Dunn/Melky or package them into the pieces we need.

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Ludwick is merely OK…i am skeptical of late bloomers…they don’t often sustain.

As for the ifs…every team has ifs…name me one sure thing. Our ifs at least have demonstrated high levels of success in the past.

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Again…i love Chipper…will go to the Coop when it’s his time. But when we sit here complaining about salaries and how they hamstring us from going and paying for bats, think about how much we pay him and how much we have to cross our fingers he stays healthy. And we knew that going in to the deal.

Tribute pay is a thing of the past, and I hope it’s the last time we do it.

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Mark Bradley, I have a couple questions for you. 1. How in the world can the Cardinals be in the top 5 with only 4 starters as of right now? and their 4th is Brad Penny who had a decent second half last year….absurd. 2. Javier Vasquez was great for us last year but it was a “Career Year” from a guy who has a career ERA over 4! and just for the record and ERA is an AVERAGE which from my understanding is a pretty good clue as to what you can expect from a pitcher just like career batting average. 3. How are the Braves not there? I’m sorry the rotation Led the League in ERA last year and we will get a full year of Hanson and Hudson (who is head and shoulders above Vasquez in their careers) plus there is no way D Lowe doesn’t post a better ERA…this List is just disgusting IMO but what do I know right?

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Debbie Downer strikes again.

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Jesse, why would should we care about someone who works in media relations? Does that give him some kind of baseball knowledge that we don’t have? What is media relations, anyways?

As for Dunn, the Nationals 1B. I’d take him today if we made a deal and I’m sure you would, too.

Chuck, Chipper has taken less and less money over and over. He is consistently taking less money than the Braves are even willing to pay him for the good of the team. Should he just give all of it up and play for free? Would you? If the Braves offered him 8 mil a year I bet he’d probably take it.

JCarson, right on. The list is ridiculous ESPN biased propaganda. Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies… blah blah blah.

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Hi Bradley,

Can you post( link) the articles you created last year about the Braves move and your opinion? I am curious to know what you thought about Javy.

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Can’t wait to see all of you guys who will have “known all along” when we get a WC or win the division this year.

I’ll be disappointed with less than 92 wins. I have high expectations. The pitching is there, we have an AS Catcher, a GG CF, potential ROY, HOF 3rd baseman, and a 5 tool SS who is coming into his own…plenty of pieces by the accolades alone. I’ll go down any lineup in the NL and find holes (save for the Phils, who have less)…

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Heyward readiness question…interested in what your guys take is…

A) Does he need 200-300 ABs in AAA? (A nice byproduct of which will be avoiding Super2 for a year)

B) If he has a decent spring but not great, is there anyway we can send him down without looking cheap? Or it being interpreted as such.

C) If he has a great spring, we can’t avoid looking cheap if we send him down under the umbrella of additional “seasoning”…will this hurt us, and be remembered when it’s time for his agent to put the screws to us…the last thing we want is our franchise player thinking we nickel and dimed him.

I think if we send him down it sends a message that we aren’t as serious about winning as we need to be, and that we are more concerned with saving a buck. My confidence barometer really hinges on this decision more than any other.

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so let me get this straight the braves rotation is not elite because Mark Bradley and Buster Olney say so???? you are telling me that javier vasquez is a better pitcher than tim hudson and you guys make a living out of this???? u 2 are a joke we have the best rotation in the NL period….

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Jared- He saw A LOT more of Glaus than you or me. He is also privy to information that you and I are not.

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I’d like to appoligize to everyone. I’m the reason that for the past 5-6 years the Braves have stunk. I became a braves fan the year after the 14-15th straight East Title. (Cant remember which.) Ever since its been dissapointment one after another. I wish the braves would hold there good players. Again I appoligize for the jinx.

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Monty, even if your calculations are dead on Hudson would still have a better career ERA by somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 a run……..still my points are valid. I think I should take this guy’s job. This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Also, I would bet money on 1. Our rotation being top 3 in NL and top 5 in ML. and 2. Wainwright and Carpenter, both not just 1, not repeating last year’s success.

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I am actually just going close this window because moronic sports writers just piss me off. Study the sport you write about. Get a clue. Then maybe you can write a semi-intelligent article.

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You’re obstinately obtuse.

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Pure stupid thinking; Vasquez, although pretty good, his subtraction does not warrant that big of a loss. However, just like NCAA Foorball pre-season ranking, it means nothing for someone to guess how good a team mike be. There are so many factors to consider. Lets just wait and see… I am sure the Braves can be one of the better team-starting rotations; the bats have to come alive…

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I agree Chief, but our outfield has been broken for some time and it hasn’t been fixed. Melky is not even a Band-Aid on a severe laceration. He’s more like Curad adhesive bandages.

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When you trade a good piece, you expect to get something in return. We got a 4th outfielder and a POSSIBLE future major leaguer. These are the trades the Pirates make.

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Chief Knockahoma,

“they don’t have a big gun at the top of the rotation”

What team were you watching last year? They had two guys with sub 3.00 ERA’s and were nasty down the stretch, Jurrjens and Hanson. You telling me neither of those guys are “big guns”?

Stupid ridiculous statement.

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Every GM and baseball insider have the same opinion of Wren, Wrong man for the job, makes moves based on emotions. Will turn Braves into Nationals.

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NC- you make a lot of sense on here. But be nice to Mr. Bradley!! show him some of that NC charm we love to adorn on our fellow southerners

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my problem is we traded 4 good prospects to get a mediocre Vasquez at the time, and now traded a #1 ace Vasquez with us for 1 good prospect………the math doesn’t add up

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You didn’t include Brent Lillibridge in those “4 good prospects” we sent to the ChiSox for Vaz, did you?

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Tyler Flowers-great prospect , Brent Lillibridge- sub par = =2 good prospects (on average)

UGA math…..

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Yeah, Flowers could be our first baseman now and we wouldn’t be looking for a LF for what seems like our 16th straight year. Again, I wish we would’ve talked to the Tigers about Wilkin Ramirez.

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I think I just saw John Shuerholtz up in some trees with some binoculars in Curacao ….must be looking for some new Andruw Jones type players

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jesse stone-Yeah and Leo lasted how long in Baltimore? Thing is that Angelos is crazy as all hell and no one is safe working for him. I wouldn’t read anything into Wren’s lasting a year.

Hell, if nothing else, he should be praised for getting Jurrjens (and by extension McLouth for Hernandez, who he got in the JJ deal) for Renteria (never had another good year, much less AS good in Atlanta) and his also picked up Infante and Ohman for someone nobody even remembers anymore. He brought in the players to improve our 09 record by what? about 14 games and totally revamped our pitching rotation (thereby even giving us a Javy Vazquez to trade for salary relief)?

Yeah, Dude needs to be fired because he couldn’t get a big enough deal for a player with a single year left on his contract, that had a career year when every single GM realized it was just that -a career year- and had never followed up a successful year in a 12 year career with another great season. Time to face facts-Javy (and I wanted to keep him and NOT re-sign Hudson) just wasn’t worth nearly what everyone thought he was. Market conditions and NOT Frank Wren, IMO, unless you;’re delusional enough to truly believe FW turned won a better deal?

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Lew- what team is Leo working for now? He also had Garret Anderson in our outfield. He was also EXTREMELY lucky that Furcal didn’t take the 10M he offered him and Peavy didn’t want to come to Atlanta, which would’ve cost us Yunel. He hasn’t fixed our most glaring need, an outfield bat.

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Opinion-And what old talent would you trade away? Chipper, who can’t BE traded without his approval? or McCann, who just won his third Silver Slugger award in four years? Everyone else we have who is old enough to qualify either just came to the Braves (Saito and Wagner) or was untradeable like Lowe. So who you got in mind?

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well for one thing Lew, 26 yr old McCann is not an old player…..I have nothing to say to you if you believe that.

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Unfortunately, Bradley is right on this one. The Braves can’t be winners when they deal away their best pitcher and then sign position players & pitchers who are in the midst of rehabilitation. If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes. In this case, the Braves will be looking at the behinds of the Phillies & Mets and maybe the Marlins as well.

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OPinion-The point was there ARE no other older players. With the exception of those we just signed, we had a young team with Yunel, McCann, Prado, Diaz and McLouth. There aren’t any old players with large salaries TO trade, except Chipper, who as mentioned cant be traded and Lowe who they couldn’t trade. ou make a moot point. I repeat, who would you trade? Did I forget someone?

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Lew- It was Kevin Towers and Jake Peavy that killed the deal. If it were up to Wren, Yunel would be a Padre and Fookie would’ve been the Braves biggest FA flop. Like I said, he was lucky.
Anderson was a liability defensively and on the bases. Most MLB outfielders given the number of ABs that Loaf had would’ve put up at least those same offensive numbers and undoubtedly would have beenbetter on defense.
Lew, are you saying that you will NEVER criticize anyone here on these blogs, because nobody’s perfect?

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I agree that losing Vasquez is tough, and wished we could have got more for him. But I also recognize tht it was the most logical thing to do consideing the strength of the starting rotation. I don’t agree with those that say Hudson and Lowe are bottom of the rotation pitchers and I think too many forget about some of the memorable gems KK pitched as well. I think with a year to adapt to NL hitters, KK will be more consistent, with a lot more quality starts. This could be a great year for Atlanta’s starters. I’m much more worried about the aging closers and the lack of a big bat than I am about starting pitching. I think short of a rash of injuries, Braves fans will be very pleased with this pitching staff next October when we finally return to the playoffs.

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Mark and Others:

The fact that Buster Olney rates the Phillies rotation higher than Atlanta while projecting J.A. Happ and Jamie Moyer as their No. 4 and 5 starters, not to mention Joe Blanton as No. 3, should tell you all you need to know about his analysis. Are you kidding me or what, Buster?

For all of you Hudson detractors, particularly those who claim he hasn’t been “lights out” since arriving in Atlanta, here are some comparisons between him and Vazquez from 2005 through 2009 (i.e. the time Hudson has been in Atlanta) just for the record.

Hudson

2005 14-9 W/L 192 IP 3.52 ERA
2006 13-12 W/L 218.1 IP 4.86 ERA
2007 16-10 W/L 224.1 IP 3.33 ERA
2008 11-7 W/L 142.0 IP 3.17 ERA
2009 2-1 W/L 42.1 IP 3.61 ERA

Totals 56-39 819 IP 3.76 ERA

Vazquez:

2005 11-15 W/L 215.2 IP 4.42 ERA
2006 11-12 W/L 202.2 IP 4.84 ERA
2007 15-8 W/L 216.2 IP 3.74 ERA
2008 12-16 W/L 208.1 IP 4.67 ERA
2009 15-10 W/L 219.1 IP 2.87 ERA

Totals 64-61 W/L 1062.2 IP 4.09 ERA

If you take out 2006 when Huddy still won 13 games, his totals during that time period look like this:

43-27 W/L 601 IP 3.37 ERA

If you take out Vazquez’s career year last year (and it ain’t even close folks that this was his best year ever), his totals during that time period look like this:

49-51 W/L 843.1 IP 4.41 ERA

While I realize that statistics don’t always tell the whole story, the fact is that there is nothing in Vazquez’s history that even remotely suggests he would have the type of season this year that he did last year (he also ain’t the second coming of John Smoltz or Greg Maddux either folks).

I guess I don’t know squat about baseball, but I think maybe Buster Olney ought to like you know do a little homework before he writes his article.

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Fans never like trades for prospects/young guys because you can’t back it up with stats and thats what the trade was. Now if Dunn is decent and the young pitcher is good then its a steal for only giving up one year of Vasquez.

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I know everyone doesn’t think Wren made the right move but if you look at Tim’s career numbers is ave. about 13 1/2 wins per season. I know it’s not the 15 we had with Javy but that’s pretty close. Also, everyone seems to have forgotten what we got for Javy. The Braves have a starter for the 2011 season which I keep hearing as his projected time table to the majors. Also, we get Tommy Hansen for a complete season and Jar was more then impressive last season. I say look at what we have because it’s not to bad. I would say it is much better then last season.

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Lew, those were trades that Wren offered. If it were up to him, they’d be made. Most baseball fans without their heads in the sand know about the Peavy, kevin Towers thing. Everybody knows Fookie refused our 10M per offer to return to LA. Wren was lucky in those 2 instances. The JJ trade was great, but nothing else is anything to brag about.

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Everyday is worse than the one before in your world, isnt it?

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Jesse, I’m not going to argue with you, so I’ll close by saying I think you’re selling Melky short. Brett Gardner is more like Timo Perez, and he couldn’t beat out Melky last year. And, by the way, unless they relent and re-sign Johnny Damon (which won’t surprise me at all), the defending WS champions will have Randy Winn or “Timo” Gardner in their starting outfield this year.

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People who are looking back over Lowe’s career statistcs and expect him to “bounce back” in 2010 are in for a wakeup call. The guy pitched his best year with the Braves last year. Its not like he’s coming back from an injury last year, or a youngster who still his more command to gain. He is a junkball pitcher who continues to lose another couple mph off his fastball every year.

And yet, the Braves’ problem is not their rotation. This is still their best component top-to-bottom and comparitively against the rest of the division. Where the Braves invested their time and money this winter was to tear down their better-than-average bullpen of 2009, while doing nothing to improve their offense.

This team finishes no higher than third in the division standings, and probably a lot closer to the bottom than the top. I’ve never been more disappointed so close to the beginning of spring training.

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what’s the deal with Buster’s numbering convention? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5… 5a? I see this more and more these days – but how does it make sense? If he’s basically saying the fifth spot is a wash between two franchises, shouldn’t it be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5a, 5b? (and then continuing with 7, 8, 9a, 9b, 11, 12, and so on?)

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I just saw Deforest Kelly yesterday on the old show “M Squad”.

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I agree….they should have kept Vasquez unless they were freeing up money for a bigtime hitter, which they clearly were not.

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Mark:

You concede that Lowe has proven that he is a big-time pitcher and don’t understand why the Braves soured on him, yet you have this trepidation about Hudson who, prior to his surgery, was at least Lowe’s equal both in numbers and durability.

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makes for two idiots

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n – For what are we contending? I know it’s not the NL east.

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jesse stone-And you know these deals were proposed how? You’re really one of FW’s assistants hoping to get him fired so you can move up and take his place?

I repeat-you don’t know a damned thing about those trades that didn’t happen-you THINK you do because of rumors you heard or saw in print. If you were not privy to the phone calls or negotiations, Dude, you don’t know jack.

And maybe you’d better go back and check the history before you make statements. Wren called off the whole thing because Towers kept asking for more. I’ll guarantee you that Towers WISHES he were able to make that deal for Yunel cause he didn’t get anything close to it from the White Sox. He tried to hijack the Braves and Wren wouldn’t let him. Who Towers really wanted (if you believe the rumors) was Tommy Hanson and FW wouldn’t do the deal.

You may not realize it, but you’re so far out in left field on this whole thing that Juan Pierre couldn’t hit the cutoff man from where you’re standing.

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abbreviation for obstinately obtuse… never used those two words together before… thanks for the thought, but sorry I can’t call you that on this one, even if Lew did.

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Mark Bradley continues to be an embarrassment to Sports Journalism.

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Some of you are killing me when it comes to dissing Hudson.

Let’s put this in persepective. Most of you are saying Hudson has been an absolute bust in Atlanta, while everyone agrees that Vazquez just put together by far the best season of his career. I will just compare Hhudson’s 2008 year (injury-plagued, but he started 22 games) versus the ridiculous year Vazquez just had.

Hudson 2008 – 3.17 ERA, 1.162 WHIP, 11 wins, 141 innings in 22 starts for an average of 6.4 innings per start

Vazquez 2009 – 2.87 ERA, 1.026 WHIP, 15 wins, 219 innings in 32 startsfor an average of 8.8 innings per start

So basically, Huddies numbers in an injury plagued season are only slightly worse than Vazquez’s career year. Not only that, Vazquez only lasted roughly one out longer than Hudson in his starts.

If you compare the 3 year stats, Hudson is actually BETTER than Vazquez… even IF you factor in the league ERA and WHIP differentials of the AL for Vazquez. Let’s remember, those three years are the ones all of you are whining and moaning about where Hudson ‘under-achieved’ in Atlanta. most of you have memories equivalent to a goldfish it appears. In 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2008 Vazquez had ERA’s closer to 5.00 than they were to 4.00. That’s right, 4 of the previous 5 years Vazquez had ERA’s in the mid to high 4’s. Everyone is bashing on Hudson, but his number absolutely DOMINATED Vazquez until this one flahs in the pan year.

GET OFF THE BANDWAGON PEOPLE!!

On top of that, Vazquez was only going to be a Brave for one more year. Unless he completely stinks beyond reason this year, he is going to ask for 15 million plus and at least a 4 year deal in free agency (that’s the same as Lowe, and my guess is he will actually go much higher).

The Braves just got a BETTER pitcher for long-term, at probably 60% of what Vazquez is going to get.

Is Hudson’s arm a question mark? You bet it is. That being said, that question mark is no bigger than the question mark surrounding Vazquez and his ability to repeat his stats from 2009 considering. Vazquez is a whopping one year younger than Hudson, and it’s not likely that his breakthrough year represents a major turning point from which his career will just continue to get better.

My bet is by the end of the year, Atlanta fans will be loving the fact they have Hudson (who loves the Braves) instead of Vazquez who would have bolted immediately after the season.

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Braves will be good this year

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Does anyone remember we got Arodys Vizcaino in this trade? This may or may not be the Doyle Alexander for a minor leaguer with a lifetime minor league ERA of over 5.00. (That player was John Smoltz) It may turn out to be that. You people who are so sure this was the worst trade ever probably don’t even know who I’m talking about. This trade allowed us to get Tim Hudson, (yes I know he was already signed, but does anyone believe we were going into the season with 6 starters), Troy Glaus, and will still leave us a little money to sign one more free agent, possibly Damon or Dye. Vasquez will no doubt have an ERA of over 4.00 this year. Last year was the best year of his career, and he will not duplicate it this year. When Arodys Vizcaino reaches the majors, there are many of you who will change your mind.

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Dang. Should have gone to page 3 before I posted. Bville must be my twin in logic.

I apologize to all for my post mirroring his. Bville, I don’t think I have ever agreed with someone on these boards any more than I am agreeing with you on this.

Oh, as for Buster Olney, his ranking the Cardinals in the top 5 speaks out about his baseball ability. Two studs and a host of nothing. Maybe they should go by ‘Carp, Wain, and pray for Rain’.

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i rember all the hyperbole last year when smoltzy left and same thing this year over vasquez ill post agin in august when haviers era’s in the 7’s and hes given up 40 hr in that band box and ask you all how ya like mr wrens trade then of course your all atlantas and so know nothing about baseball or you might actually gone too a few of thos playoff games in the unimpotant 14 straight lol

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Lew, you are going to believe what you believe. Everybody that knows baseball and doesn’t have an axe to grind KNOWS that Wren offered Furcal 10M and Furcal turned it down to stay with the Dodgers. You can refuse to believe it and call it a “rumor” all you want, but most know it’s true.
There are numerous stories about the failed Peavy trade (I guess they’re all false, huh?) from the mlb.com archives and elsewhere. Peavy did not want to come to Atlanta. In ANY scenario, Yunel would be a part of that trade. But again, Lew you can pretend it didn’t happen.
And your last attempted “dig” at me made no sense. “You are so far out in left field, Juan Pierre couldn’t hit the cutoff man from where you’re standing”. Juan Pierre has an incredibly weak arm. You should have used a strong armed outfielder in your lame attempta t whatever it is you were attempting. An average attempt from you Lew, but it’s a swing and a miss.

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Ah but the Braves have Jurrjens, Hanson, Teheran, and Vizcaino…

oh wait, you were talking about 2010…

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Lew- Since it’s just “rumor”, do you also believe Tiger Woods has been a faithful husband?

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I have to respectfully disagree with you, Mark. IMO the Braves have the third best rotation in baseball. The Red Sox have the best rotation hands down. The Yankees #2, Braves #3, Cards #4, Angels #5, Phillies #6. The Braves match up quite well with the CWS, LAA, STL, & PHI. Lets match the Braves staff against the Phils b/c they’re in our division.

#1 JJ vs Halladay: Halladay is the best in game.
#2 Hanson vs Hamels: Slight edge Hanson.
#3 Hudson vs Blanton: Huddy
#4 Lowe vs Happ: Lowe
#5 KK vs Moyer: KK in a walk over.

Braves win 4 of the 5 matchups with the Phils. I admit I am biased, but honestly how is the Phillies staff better than ours? or Chicago’s or Anaheim’s? You can make a solid argument that St. Louis’ staff is better b/c Carpenter and Wainwright are better than any two we can put at the top of the rotation. However, our 3,4, & 5 our better than theirs.

Somebody point out where and how I’m wrong, I’m willing to listen.

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“Buster mentions San Fran and Tampa Bay in the same category as the Braves”

Well a rotation headed by Lincecum, Cain, and Baumgarner with Zito at # 4 is certainly better than the White Sox and probably the Cards, and Tampa Bay’s rotation from 1 – 5 is also pretty impressive if Price lives up to expectations, and they have depth in the high minors. All three of these rotations should probably surplant the Chicago rotation for starters.

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everybody chill out on Bradley, the guy is just giving us hungry fans articles to read and digest….he’s doin his job, I prefer to read it from Bradley than anyone who doesn’t fallow the Braves

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, ReidAdair. ReidAdair said: RT @MarkBradleyAJC: ESPN's Buster Olney isn't sold on the Atlanta Braves' rotation sans Javier Vazquez. Neither am I. http://bit.ly/9jVyBL [...]

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amen, trottinghome.

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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Mark Bradley, Nick Stekovic, Bill Penny, Jake Walker, Candice Nicholson and others. Candice Nicholson said: Bradley's Buzz: ESPN's Buster doesn't love Braves' rotation: Atlanta Journal Constitution (blog) I haven't quite b… http://bit.ly/aWPU3B [...]

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Are you still going to argue that Wren didn’t offer Furcal a contract? How about Peavy putting an end to his trade to Atlanta? Keep drinking the Frank Wren Kool-Aid

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Dude-Do you even bother to read? I was talking the Peavy deal (DUH, Kevin Towers?). Furcal might or might not have worked out. I have no idea and neither do you as it never happened. All you can say is you didn’t like the idea. But as far as who or what was offered for Peavy, you have NO IDEA what went on in negotiations unless you were part of them.

And as for the Juan Pierre comment. Again, DUH. I know he has a weak arm that was the —oh WTF, you can’t explain much to a person with the reasoning power of a rutabaga.

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Rutabaga

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Mark,

Let’s be fair about this, Javier had a career year and probably was not going to duplicate it. As a Brave he would have won 12 to 14 games with a 4.00 plus ERA this year. Hudson will probably not duplicate his previous years but should be counted upon for 12 to 14 wins with a 4.00 ERA. In other words it is a wash.

Javier’s contract was scheduled to be up at the end of this year, Hudson will have 2 additional years. We obtained a very good prospect, a 4 th outfielder (possibly a starter, I think Cabera will do okay in the NL) and a lefty relief pitcher.

Last year when we traded for Javier I remember everyone calling it a bad trade. We gave up a very good prospect for a 500 pitcher who couldn’t win the big game. Now all of a sudden this same pitcher is Cy Young. Come on give me a break.

This staff is no worse than the one that finished 2009.

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What Vazquez or no Vazquez our rotation is one of the games best!far better than the philies!the guy who said that is as dumb as a chicken with no head!

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I agree with Mark’s earlier comment that Wren’s first mistake here was the signing of KK. It was too big a contract for 5th pitcher who cannot now be traded. It was great to get him, but he is luxury and this team can no longer afford luxuries.

But in looking at this whole thing, largely with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I think Wren has made several other miscalculations.

I think he first gave Hudson too much money. Does anyone think Hudson could have gotten this deal in this market without either the Yanks or Boston. I know some of you will say the Mets would have gone after him, but they have been pretty timid this offseason. Even so, would even they have given him this number of years. I like Tim and I hope he succeeds, but this is a big gamble for a team like the Braves.

I also think that when he signed Hudson, he thought could find a trading partner for Lowe who would eat a good portion of the contract. I don’t care what anyones says, it seemed pretty clear at the time that the preference was to trade Lowe. We all saw how that worked out.

When he finally got to the point of offering Vazquez, he had little negotiating leverage to get a big established bat The prospect is great, but the point was to win this year.

Despite all of this, we still have a pretty good rotation with two great young pitchers and a lot of young pitching talent on the way up. If Hudson reverts to form with his new arm, it could be a great one.

One thing about Frank is that he sure does give us a lot to talk about.

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to those of you who dont know. We took melky to get him off the Yankees payroll and vizcaino’s stock has been plummeting. This is another FW stoopid move. with the uncertainties of Lowe and KK to trade youe ace is moronic. they would have been better off eating 10 million a yr of lowe’s salary but that would make FW look like the idiot he is.

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Getting rid of Vazquez was absurd. With him went whatever slim chance we had for being competitive for several reasons:
(1) Almost certainly, at least one of the other starters we are counting on will either be injured or ineffective.
(2) Replacing someone who was that effective with someone almost as good does not translate to almost as many wins.
(3) And most significant of all — Like always, to win with Bobby Cox managing, you have to have pitching so far far superior to the other teams that it overcomes his incompetence and enables you to win over the long 162 game regular season schedule in spite of his inability to manage the offense and generate run production.

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Truthfully, the difference between the Braves and Phils is Ryan Howard. Braves just don’t have 50hrs and 150rbis coming from one source. Coming off last year, Phils have only Hallyday and J.A. Happ as reliable starters and Braves have only JJ and Tommy (Huddy at this point is still unproven, Lowe was a batting practice pitcher, and KK walked the ballpark although he had a reputation for beating the other team’s ace). Still, if we kept Vasquez we would have been #2 on list because Yanks wouldn’t have had him. Therein lies the big difference between Yanks and other teams. If the Yanks had Lowe they wouldda dumped him and ate a good portion of his 15 million we couldn’t. You can only project coming off 2009. Nobody knows if Lowe is gonna rebound and Vasquez is gonna suck. At the end of the year Lowe had no velocity and Vasquez had all his pitches working. That’s all you can go on.

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if you take all of hansons starts except his very first one his era was under 2.60 (are you kidding me not even lincecum did that good) juir had i think 25 quality starts out of thirty (extremely consistent), derek lowe will rebound cause he knows he doesnt have to be a no. 1 ace on this staff, and kawakami outdueled (ready for this) johan santana, cliff lee, roy halladay, clayton kershaw, and josh johnson all aces on their team name me another number 5 starter that defeated 5 aces if hudson can give 20-25 quality starts we will be having the best starters era like last year. And on javy vazquez he had to go people (baseball pitchers with that many innings on his arm say that he is overdue for an injury or a decline) his era will be around 4.5 with the yankees

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I haven’t read the 300 posts and somebody may have already said this, but I am old enough to remember when the the Braves traded their best pitcher away–Doyle Alexander to the tigers who subsequently won a division title. What did we get–John Smoltz and 14 division titles. If Vizcaino turns out to be half the pitcher that Smoltz was, the Braves win this trade by a mile.

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The wildcard is Kawakami. I believe for a pitcher like Kenshin, it’s imperative for him to get off to a good start. I really believe he’ll have a good idea of what he wants to do with certain hitters this year, which wasn’t the case at the beginning of last year. I predict he wins 13-15 games this year.

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Totally disagree. Hanson’s going to win 20 games this year with or witthout run support. If the Braves hit we’ll win the East.

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Field…

Unfortunately “If the Braves hit, we’ll win the East.” has been a yearly sentiment for too long now. Having Chipper and “one-and-done power guy” ain’t enough, whether it’s Galarraga, Bonilla, Sheffield, J.D. Drew, Teixeira, LaRoche, Glaus, etc.

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Buster Olney?

That guy is an idiot anyway. Anyone that works for ESPN is out of their mind.

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Our pitching could and should be very good; and our offense (if properly managed) could produce enough runs. However, the problem is that Bobby Cox is the manager; and he does not understand or implement even the most simple and basic fundamentals and procedures for maximum run production. With his management, you are already 10 games behind before the season begins. To win, the pitching has to be great enough (so far superior to the other teams) to overcome his management procedures and lack thereof.

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