Bradley’s Buzz: ESPN’s Buster doesn’t love Braves’ rotation
This, as you doubtless know, is not a recent picture. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
We keep hearing that the Braves’ rotation will be just as good without the man who finished fourth in the National League Cy Young voting in 2009. The (thin) reasoning: That Javier Vazquez was unlikely to have such a season again, but that Tim Hudson — who underwent Tommy John surgery in 2008 and who has won two games since — will absolutely return to top-of-the-rotation form. This, I say again, assumes a lot.
I haven’t quite bought it, and I note for your edification that the estimable Buster Olney of ESPN.com hasn’t yet, either. Writing for ESPN’s Insiders, Buster O. lists his top five rotations — top six, actually — and somehow doesn’t include the Braves’. (Link requires registration.) His rankings:
- 1. Red Sox: Josh Beckett, Jon Lester, John Lackey, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Clay Buchholz, Tim Wakefield.
- 2. Yankees: CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte, Javier Vazquez, Phil Hughes.
- 3. White Sox: Jake Peavy, Mark Buehrle, John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Freddy Garcia.
- 4. Angels: Jered Weaver, Scott Kazmir, Joe Saunders, Ervin Santana, Joel Pineiro.
- 5. Cardinals: Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Kyle Lohse, Brad Penny and “somebody else.”
- 5a. Phillies: Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels, Joe Blanton, J.A. Happ, Jamie Moyer.
Of the latter, Olney writes: “The Phillies would have been No. 1 if they had Halladay, [Cliff] Lee and Hamels 1-2-3.” And what of the Braves? Here goes:
“I probably would have placed [them] at No. 3 if not for the trade of Javier Vazquez.”
So I guess that makes two among us who haven’t quite grasped the offseason Zen of Wren — Buster O. and yours truly. But you are, as ever, free to tell me how obstinately obtuse I am.
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341 comments Add your comment
clemson2388
February 9th, 2010
1:21 pm
As much as I do not like the fact that we did not get a starting player back in the Vazquez trade, I honestly think we will be looking back at this trade as genius for the LONG run. Lets be honest we weren’t gonna win a world series this year even with vazquez. But what this trade has done is potentially set up the most dominant Rotation in the past 10 years of baseball in future seasons.
We have a INFLUX of future stars at pitcher.
If we are able to keep Jair and Hanson long term we could possibly be looking at a rotation of:
Jair Jurjeans 24 RHP
Tommy Hanson 23 RHP
Julio Tehran 19 RHP
Mike Minor 22 LHP
Arodys Vizcaino 19 RHP
With Craig Kimbrel RHP as the future closer.
That roster is worth salivating over. I mean seriously. You gotta look at the future with this trade getting Viscaino. Yes we lose Vazquez who had the single BEST season of his career. But for a guy thats been around for so long and not matched his past season more than once in a row how can you say he would have definitely matched last season. I don’t buy it. Vazquez has always been a fickle pitcher.
Man I can’t wait for two or three years from now to see the youth coming into the rotation. I personally love the trade. We weren’t going to win the world series this year, might as well grab a STUD arm for the future!
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
1:22 pm
Knockahoma,
It does suck to see Wainwright doing so well for the Cards but he was only a prospect and JD Drew had a great season as a Brave and helped us continue our playoff run. That seems to qualify as a good trade for both teams…although, I wish management would have had more foresight (like they seem to now) and started to rebuild instead of trading young talent for another “shot” at the postseason. The Tex trade is another example of that.
Reality Check
February 9th, 2010
1:22 pm
Mark, it has to be said, if you keep Vaquez and Hudson, and do not pick up Melky’s Salary and Troy Glaus.Hinske, have the money would not be that much more. We did not pick up much value for letting Vazquez’s salary go. Two part time major leaguers and a first baseman that was hurt all of last year.
Supposedly last year was plan A to improve pitching and this year management would address the run production, however, no real attempt was made in this area. Very dissapointing and for all those fans that say the Braves scored more runs the second half of the season we no longer have Adam Laroche, who was the biggest run producer after the all star break.
1eyedJack
February 9th, 2010
1:23 pm
I think ol’ Buster’s logic is kind a skewed. How can he put Boston #1? Wasn’t DiceK hurt most of last year and have arm problems and isn’t Wakefield as old as Niekro?
Yankees have Pettite who is a dinosaur and is Phil Hughes a proven commodity?
Chris Carpenter and Brad Penny are waiting for their arms to fall off.
JA Happ was a rookie last year and may never approach that level again and Jamie Moyer is first cousins to Methusala.
The Braves rotation has a chance to be as good or better than any of these.
Jason
February 9th, 2010
1:28 pm
Vasquez is coming off the best year of his CAREER. Yes he was great last year but he is a career .500 pitcher. Geez stop acting like we gave away Greg Maddux. We’re lucky we got back a stud SP prospect and #3-4 OF for one year of him. Also, I’ll take Tim Hudson AND Derek Lowe’s stats over Vasquez’s at the end of this year, any day. Lowe had the worst year of his career and still won 15 games. Hudson has been a little disappointing as a Brave yes but he is a career 148-78, and is finally healthy. Plus we’ll have a full year of Hansen. Health permitting, I think our rotation will be even better than last year’s. And every rotation in baseball is dependent upon good health (except maybe Red Sox, who have 6). Look the Braves are obviously cash strapped and it sucks. But let’s not be so short-sighted and stop acting like losing Javy Vasquez is going to be the end all be all for this team.
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2010
1:31 pm
No salary cap in baseball, Chuck. At least last I checked. (There is, however, a luxury tax.)
Knockahoma
February 9th, 2010
1:34 pm
1 eyed Jack,You’re exactly right. Almost every one of those rotations
has more ? marks than the Braves. Why didn’t he assume that Lowe and
Hudson would return to normal form. Also KK pitched fine after April
which was an adjustment period for him. Also, pitching in the 5th
spot will allow him to rest frequently.
ITP Brave
February 9th, 2010
1:39 pm
I’m thrilled that the Braves were able to help the Yankees make it into the top 3 rotations. Maybe next we can help the Red Sox beef up their lineup by giving them Chipper or Escobar for a lobster roll and a bag of balls.
Is it too late to trade Wren to the Royals for Dayton Moore?
On another note, I see that Jermaine Dye is still looking for a contract. If the Braves are really that interested in another outfielder (which I presume they are with all of the write-ups on Damon), why don’t the Braves spend a few million on a bat that will actually benefit the lineup with some HRs?
Bernard
February 9th, 2010
1:41 pm
The Braves are approaching moron status. Allowing the much over rated Bobby “Charlie Liebrant” Cox return as mgr and GIVING away their ACE!!!????… its going to be another long hot boring summer of MEDIOCRE Braves baseball.
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
1:41 pm
Mark,
Im still waiting for your expertise??
PLEASE give me another scenario of ANY trade Wren could have done? We can leave Javy and Lowe out of it.
You are quick to bash his moves but never offer any other suggestions.
Im waiting…
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
1:43 pm
Damon 2010 = R.Church 2009
J.Dye 2010 = G.Anderson 2009
We do not need any more old guys!
ITP Brave
February 9th, 2010
1:45 pm
1eyedjack… turn the Bravo-colored glasses around for a second. You’ll see that:
1) Lowe is old and coming off of his worst season ever, possibly a sign that he’s well past his prime. (Another red flag is that no one would sniff at his contract in a trade)
2) Hudson is coming off of tommy john and is “waiting for his arm to fall off” as you like to say.
3) KK is old, unpredictable, and has not shown that he can be a consistent starter in the US.
4) Hanson was a rookie last season, just like JA Happ.
At this rate, JJ is the only solid bet that the Braves have. Based on last season’s performance (which is the closest thing to compare to the upcoming season), Vasquez was even more of a lock to be the best pitcher on this team. People seem to forget that if he had any run support in 2009, Vasquez would have likely won well over 20 games and probably won the Cy Young.
Herschel Talker
February 9th, 2010
1:48 pm
NCBravesFan – you’re right. They don’t have to explicitly tell us that. But then don’t explicitly tell us the exact opposite, which is exactly what he did. He said there were no payroll constraints from corporate driving his decision. We all know that his a bald-faced lie.
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2010
1:49 pm
Fire Frank Wren. This was one of the most half-@ssed attempts at constructing a team I’ve ever seen. We were a good offseason from being a legitimate contender to win the National League, and Wren instead made us worse for no apparent reason (it wasn’t like payroll was considerably slashed).
I just don’t feel good about this team. Too much has to go right. Our big offseason moves (Hudson, Glaus, Wagner) were all on guys coming off major injuries. Maybe if Chipper bounces back with a big year, and if Glaus gives us the power we’re craving, and if JJ Jurrjens and Hanson don’t have a dropoff then we’ll have a shot at the playoffs. But this team looks like a house of cards to me.
1eyedJack
February 9th, 2010
1:49 pm
Just sayin’ that all those rotations have just as many questions as ours.
Hambone
February 9th, 2010
1:50 pm
Ok is it just me but does anyone else think that its stupid to act like DLowe isn’t gonna be better than last year without a doubt… i mean yea he had a bad year but in ‘02 he posted a 2.58 ERA, then went on to post a 4.42 ERA the next year, only to bounce back with two years of an ERA in the 3.60’s and I think Cole Hamels, who had a huge dropoff, was as much of a disappointment as DLowe but apparently this list doesnt think so. I’d rather have the veteran who has already proved he can bounce back, rather than Hamels who might not be as good as people thought. Either way, Roy Halladay is better than any of the braves starters (until Hanson reaches his potential) but JJ is better than any of the other Phillies guys. Hanson over JJHapp anyday. Also, KK (braves’ number 5) had better stats that all but one of Joe Blantons (phill’s number 3) seasons and I would take KK over Jamie Moyer, too. As Hudson, I think other than ’06 he has been good in atl. From 07-08 he had good stats, including ERAs under 3.30, he just never met his wins total from Oakland, but this is when the braves offense sucked worse than now. I think I could also make cases against the Braves being better than some of the other rotations, as well, but I don’t have time… Fluid Mechanics test tomm…..
Ramblin Wrecker
February 9th, 2010
1:50 pm
Let me get this logic straight…having Vasquez as the #4 starter in their rotation only makes the Yankees #2 on the list, but somehow if Vasquez was the Braves #1 starter that would have the Braves up at #3 on the list?
Either Buster is undervaluing Vasquez for the Yankees or overvaluing him for the Braves.
He might have a point that the Red Sox are #1, I guess since they get to pitch 6 starters somehow (?), but exactly which of the Yankees starters are better than Jair Jurrjens? CC is their best guy, and I think its a toss up at best between Jurrjens and CC.
No one will convince me that AJ Burnett or Andy Pettite (at his current age) are better than Tim Hudson and Tommy Hanson. One guy is 38 and the other is an injury machine.
Lowe and Vasquez, all you have to do is look at the offseason two years ago to see how each was viewed. Universally Lowe would have been considered more consistent. But Vasquez has one great season, despite a track record of ERA’s well over 4.50 with a few decent seasons mixed in. He might have turned a corner and become an ace, but until he proves it, I feel like it’s a safer bet that Lowe returns to his pre-2009 form than Vasquez repeats his upper tier performance.
Then Kawakami is way better than Phil Hughes. The proof? When has Hughes beaten either Roy Halladay, Johan Santana or Dice K, much less all three in one season? Never is when.
So I think I’ve just given a decent argument that the Braves are better than the #2 rotation on the list. Any reason to compare the rest of the top five?
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
1:55 pm
HT,
His decision to trade a SP was more on the fact that he wanted the security and price of Hudson for the next 3 years instead of the HOPE that J.vaz could repeat 2009 again (his career numbers say otherwise) and if he came close we wouldnt be able to afford him anyway!
So you expect the GM of a team to say “Well, lets see here, all I could get was some 4th OF named Melky something or other, and some prospects” NO, he wont do that! Baseball is a business and Liberty is his Boss, he cannot bad mouth his boss or he would get fired. Your requests for honesty are unreasonable. If Wren was your friend and he told you lies than you should be offended…but assuming he isnt. Quit expecting him to disclose all of his jobs details to us.
Hambone
February 9th, 2010
1:57 pm
i completely agree ramblin wrecker
Elmore Spencer
February 9th, 2010
1:58 pm
The (thin) reasoning: That Javier Vazquez was unlikely to have such a season again
Its not that thin. He wont.
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:00 pm
Thanks for a logical post Wrecker! A lot of negativity spewed on these blogs.
That is what Bradley wants though.
Mark Bradley = TMZ reporter
Still waiting Mark….
Mark Bradley
February 9th, 2010
2:01 pm
You’ll be waiting longer, NC. I don’t respond well to namecalling.
Alex
February 9th, 2010
2:05 pm
Mark, you’re not paying attention are you? Trading JV wasn’t something Wren ever wanted to do but he had to b/c they couldn’t afford to keep everyone. After finding no takers for first choice DLowe, he shipped the only other possible chip – and a guy with one year left on his contract who just had a career year. USE YOUR BRAIN.
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2010
2:05 pm
NCbravesFan, I’ve gotta disagree with your comparing Damon and Dye to Church and Anderson. Damon and Dye are both coming off above average offensive seasons (100+ OPS+). When we acquired Church he was clearly never the same guy after his severe concussion, and Anderson had been a pretty useless player for a couple of years.
It’s probably a moot point to be discussing since Wren seems to have dug his heels in and is maintaining that the roster reconstruction is pretty much complete, but Damon would bring a lot to our offense. God forbid we add a guy with solid on-base skills and decent power at a bargain-basement price.
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:05 pm
“So I guess that makes two among us who haven’t quite grasped the offseason Zen of Wren — Buster O. and yours truly. But you are, as ever, free to tell me how obstinately obtuse I am.”
Im sorry to offend you Mark, all I wanted was simple response to a logical Braves baseball question. Obviously you dont have one.
Thanks for your insight!
Steve K
February 9th, 2010
2:06 pm
Mark: Why are you so up in arms over this trade? I understand that Javier Vazquez had an excellent year for us last year, but do you realize the man has had only two back-to-back winning seasons in his 12 year career? His overall career record is 142-139 with a 4.19 ERA and his W-L% is .505. These stats are pretty pedestrian. I believe the Braves are in good hands and I am tired of you guys playing Monday morning quarterback. Have trust in the Braves’ management. After all, they won 14 straight Division titles, not you or Buster Olney!
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:12 pm
Truth Seeker…look at Dye’s second half numbers, they arent pretty. I was making the GA reference to Dye’s OF ability more than his bat.
Damons career numbers dont reflect last season, that was more of a New Yankee Stadium boost. He is a good player but we really dont have a spot on the roster or in the payroll for him. Only Boras and Damon know what he will take to sign. Everyone just assumes if the Braves offered him 3mil he would sign. From what I hear, he wants 2 years period. I think 2years 12-14mil is what it will take to sign him. I dont have any proof, just my opinion.
As much as I dont like the idea of Damon being a Brave, I do like the fact that his signing “might” and thats a big might, excite the fans and sell more tickets. That is ultimately what needs to happen to be able to pay out the big contracts in the future.
papadawg
February 9th, 2010
2:15 pm
Gimme a break, Hudson as good as Vasquez, no way even when Hudson can stay off the DL with Chipper he couldn’t carry Vasquezs glove
JEZ
February 9th, 2010
2:16 pm
What’s funny to be about the article is that the braves had the best over all ERA in all of baseball last year…so why in the world would BO not even put them on the list. I’m glad it all depends on him! NOT!
chas
February 9th, 2010
2:19 pm
I don’t have a problem with the Vazquez trade even though I don’t like the short term results. We got burned a few times too many in the past with short term returns (i.e. J.D. Drew trade). The modern day Braves act much more like a small market team with limited resources even though that is painful to watch sometimes. If we really thought that we had a legitimate shot to resign Vazquez at a discount price then perhaps this was a gamble not worth taking, but I don’t know if that was feasible or not. If Vazquez had another great year with us this year then could we have afforded to sign him to a big, long term contract? We will need those resources in the next few years to sign some of the young players. Signing Hudson was really what drove Vazquez away and then the inability to trade Lowe. But, what are the odds that Lowe will have another stinker year while Vazquez has another stellar year. With this being said, if you don’t have Vizcaino in the trade then it is a real stinker. There are still some major what ifs to this team in terms of health and production, but if we stay healthy I think we’ll be very competitive.
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:21 pm
Papadawg…Here is some info for you dont sound so uniformed next time.
(1) Javier Vazquez has never had a season to match what he did last year, and with a career ERA of 4.19, odds are he’ll never have another season like last year, (2) Tim Hudson actually had a 16-and-10 season in 2007, winning percentage-wise better than Vazquez’ 2009, and (3) Hudson’s career 3.49 ERA — over a half run better than Javy’s — should tell us that at virtually the same age, Hudson is a more sure bet to have a good season than Vazquez. Hudson has also never had a losing season, Vazquez has had five. Hudson has only one major DL stint in his career.
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2010
2:21 pm
NC, I’m actually kind of with you on Dye. I don’t think he’d be enough of an upgrade over Melky/Heyward to be worth whatever he’d cost, and I definitely wouldn’t want him taking at-bats away from Diaz, who is clearly the better hitter at this point in their careers.
Damon makes perfect sense to me, though, if the reports that he’s going to have to settle for $3M are true. While his numbers clearly got a boost from the new Yankee Stadium, he did post a very solid .795 OPS in road games last year, and he had a 118 OPS+ in his last season in the old ballpark.
Damon is still a very dependable ballplayer who would bring plate discipline and power, both things that I think we can all agree the Braves could use more of. He’d also allow us to be a bit more patient with Heyward. I really can’t see a downside (other than his mediocre defense), so it’s puzzling to me why we haven’t been more aggressive in going after him.
cantondawg
February 9th, 2010
2:24 pm
I agree also…Javier Vazquez pitched very good for us last year but the most impressive thing about him is his durabily. He never gets hurt and you can alway pencil him in for 200 innings. I was mystified why we signed TH to a contract after the injury problems that we had. By doing that, Wren had no choice but to trade Vazquez. But, i do think the Pitching will be great again this year. Hanson and Jurrjens are going to be allstars. I think DL will pick up his game this year. Hudson will do fine if he can stay healthy. KK cannot do any worse than he did last year. The big question mark is the bullpen. I don’t think BW will be as good as Soriano and Gonzalez
JabboRockefeller
February 9th, 2010
2:25 pm
Hudson’s the pitcher who shoulda been dealt. Period.
chuck
February 9th, 2010
2:26 pm
PapaDawg…show me the empirical evidence that demonstrates Vazquez is a better pitcher for his career than Hudson….
Hudson in his last full healthy year with Braves: 16-10, 3.33 ERA…his career #s in slowpitch softball AL: 92-39, 3.30 ERA…his career 162 game avg: 16-9, 3.49 ERA…
Vazquez: 15-10, 2.87 in his best year ever last year…Javier going back to AL where his career #s are 52-46, with a 4.52 ERA…Javier had 3 years that even compare with Huddy (2001, 2007, 2009)…
Hudson went on the DL with a TJ…people bounce back pretty good from those. He is not a career long nagging injury type.
Get informed buddy.
papadawg
February 9th, 2010
2:28 pm
NC fan Hudson probably won’t have a year like Vasquezs last year either and he is showing signs of making regular trips to the DL. but the Braves do prefer older players
Jack
February 9th, 2010
2:28 pm
We can speculate all we want… Everybody is looking into their crystal ball… This year like all years will be full of surprises… What I’m most thankful about is we are getting close to seeing the real answers that will show up on the field and in the standings… Win or lose the Braves are my team and I can’t seem to change that! Go Braves!!!
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:30 pm
Truth, I cant argue that the Braves currently have anyone better suited for LF and leadoff than Damon, but I dont think he will go anywhere for 3mil, as wishfully reported by some AJC reporters.
I think that Melky/Diaz will offer just as much to the team as Damon would. I think his days as a speedy leadoff man are behind him. The guy can hit, no doubt about it, but it really helps to be surrounded by future HOF players such as Jeter, Tex, and Arod. If I was a pitcher and had to choose my poison in that group…it wouldnt even be a choice, I know who would be getting the fastballs!
JabboRockefeller
February 9th, 2010
2:30 pm
I can’t believe how folks hit KK with backhand criticism. The guy stood toe-to-toe with some great pitchers, and more often than not threw wonderfully. I’d much rather have him start a big game than Lowe.
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2010
2:31 pm
It’s funny to me to hear the way some of you talk about Kawakami. You’d think he was throwing batting practice based on some of the comments. The guy gave up 3 ER or fewer in 19 of his last 21 starts. KK was rock solid, he just was victimized by horrific run support. I’m actually not worried about him at all. He’s a veteran who knows how to keep runs off the board. As long as he still has pretty decent stuff, he’ll be effective.
I’m more worried about Lowe. I’m not sure why everyone is so convinced he’s going to bounce back. His stuff is eroding fast.
BigTimeTECHFan
February 9th, 2010
2:32 pm
Over full career Lowe is way better then Vasquez. Facts would say Lowe will have better year this year, Vasquez will drop off. I think the bigger risk is that Vasquez would pull off anouther big year.
Braves did right.
chuck
February 9th, 2010
2:32 pm
Huddy went down for a year long injury, came back in 12 months, and pitched well in 7 appearances…this injury prone BS is retarded.
As for the trade, do you not think Wren beat the bushes? First off, JV didn’t want to go west of the MS, and told teams he wouldn’t re-sign, so that fuct us. Second of all, the salary scares away half the franchises (even on a one year rental) or do you guys not pay attn to the economy?
I guess half of you don’t have jobs, and don’t know the value of money. The team that dealt for him needed assurances that he would re-sign. Or be like the Yanks, who are looking to cut salary again next year.
When the Yanks are looking to cut salary, and the Sox are being financially prudent, you have to understand the climate you are operating in.
JabboRockefeller
February 9th, 2010
2:34 pm
The NY POST is reporting that Damon wants 22-mil for two-years with Detroit. And that’s the team he WANTS to play for.
Jared
February 9th, 2010
2:34 pm
just because you’re not alone doesn’t make you any less wrong, Mark.
If Cole Hamels is like he was last year, then the Braves clearly have the best rotation in the NL. Cardinals? They don’t even have a 5th penciled in yet. Does anyone think their 5th starter will be better than Hanson or Kawakami? Laughable. Lowe had a “terrible” year last year and won 15 games. Vazquez has a career ERA over 4 (last year was 2.87) yet everyone thinks he’ll repeat that? He is an innings and K machine. I’ve loved that about him all along and was very supportive of his signing when it happened.
All that time the same people who are complaining about him being traded now were complaining when we traded for him. Fact is, everybody loves to hate on the Braves front office because they’ve had to make tough decisions with our big name players AND they only win the WS once. That is, apparently, the front offices’ fault.
Fact is, I think both Lowe and Vazquez will return to their respective forms this year… Lowe as a ground-ball inducing machine with another 15 or so wins and an ERA around 3.20 and Vazquez as his usual 200+ IP, 200+ K, 10-10, 4.00 ERA self. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is. I’ll take Tim Hudson every day of the week of Javier Vazquez right now.
Do I wish the Braves could have gotten more for Javy coming off a great year? yes. And it is Wren’s fault for signing Lowe to an untradable deal last year. But I do not fault him for trading Vazquez in favor of Hudson.
Skeezix
February 9th, 2010
2:34 pm
I’m with you Mark – you “can’t have too much quality starting pitching” is a proven baseball axiom. What we got in return for Vasquez is a head scratcher–so it would have been better to not do the trade. Also, I remember the Alexander/Smoltz trade and I don’t recall Braves fans in tears over it. I recall it as a smart trade that helped both clubs-and Braves fans being excited about Smoltz’s potential. Maybe not at the excitement level we had last year for Tommy Hanson–but we knew more about Tommy as he was in our farm system. Alexander was clearly near the end of his road; Vasquez clearly isn’t.
Ramblin Wrecker
February 9th, 2010
2:38 pm
Actually Truthseeker & NC, I think Diaz compares favorably to Damon. First off, you have to throw out the 24 HR thing because that’s a statistical outlyer for Damon’s career. He’s more like a 15 HR guy in a normal ballpark. But other than that, over the time that Diaz has been in the big leagues he has a higher batting avg, OBP and SLG than Damon. Plus he hits righthanded which is necessary to keep the lineup balanced. If the Braves didn’t think Heyward was ready, then signing Damon would make a lot of sense. But if you expect Heyward to make the team as the starting RF, I just don’t see adding another OF to the team to take at bats away from Diaz.
Of course, if the Braves did sign Damon now, they could see how Heyward does and if he made the club, the Braves would have the ability to trade McLouth or Melky, let the one they keep play CF, Diaz in RF and Damon in LF. Then bring Heyward along later, or see how Jordan Schafer plays at Gwinnett for a couple months.
TruthSeeker
February 9th, 2010
2:40 pm
Ramblin Wrecker, I never knocked Diaz. I think he’s outstanding. I just think Damon would give us one more good hitter and would allow us to not have to rush Heyward if we’re not convinced he’s ready for the bigs.
NCbravesFAN
February 9th, 2010
2:40 pm
Skeezix, if you were around to remember the Alexander trade then you should remember that he was an All-star pitcher and proceeded to go 9-0 with a 1.53 ERA to propel the Tigers to the division title that season. He was not a has been, he was a 36 year old veteran traded for a 20 year old prospect. Very similar to the Javy deal. Lets hope for similar results!
chuck
February 9th, 2010
2:41 pm
It’s true guys, a win on the 5th day is the same as the win from your ace…and we have the best 4th and 5th starters in the NL…
N8
February 9th, 2010
2:41 pm
It might be too much to assume coming off of surgery, that Hudson will dominate (or even last long enough to think about dominating, for that matter).
But look at the numbers in 2008. Other than the K totals, when Hudson went down, (22 starts I believe – been round and round on this topic on DOB’s blog), Hudson was every bit as dominating as Vazquez was through the same amount of starts. And he (Hudson) was doing it on a bum elbow. In his last start before shutting down for TJ surgery, Hudson pitching 6 shutout innings with 6 K’s. Then realized the pain was too much and missed a year because of it.
Would Hudson’s final 2 months of 2008, been as good as Vazquez’s was, leading to an ERA under 3.00? I don’t know, but on September 2nd, Vazquez’s ERA was 3.16. Tim Hudson’s 2008 season ended on July 23rd with a 3.17 ERA.
So, I’m not so sure why (if healthy) people aren’t sold that Tim Hudson “can’t” live up to what Vazquez did last year?
The only real issue I have with the swap of Huddy for Javy is the defense. Vazquez is a “miss the bat” pitcher, and our defense other than Escobar isn’t anything special. Switching for Javy to a guy that pitches to contact, brings the need to have solid defense behind him.
Not so sure we have that. Which is cause for concern. But not Hudson’s ability to get people out on a regular basis if he’s healthy.
After all park adjustments are calculated, Tim Hudson and Vazquez will have stats that are very similar to each other at season’s end, and Wren will have saved 2.5 million dollars along the way. 2.5 million dollars that might just go towards adding Johnny Damon to the mix.
Would it have been more ideal for Wren to save MORE money and move Lowe, while keeping both Vazquez and Hudson? Sure. You’d have to be a moron to think other wise. But he couldn’t. And due to being desperate enough to HAVE TO sign Lowe before last year, Wren is now sleeping in the bed he made.
If Hudson goes down and Vazquez pitches 200+ innings for the Stankees, then Wren will look like a fool and his gamble will have failed. But if Hudson is healthy enough to pitch around 200 innings, I’m 100 percent confident that his season will be every bit as good as Vazquez’s was last year. Or at least as good as his 2008 was before going down.