Two astute bloggers help dumb ol’ me assess the Hawks
A Smoove swoop. Note absence of swooners in background. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
The Hawks, it’s safe to say, have been better than most of us envisioned. But now, the season’s midpoint having just passed, the discussion changes. Is better good enough?
Because I know you tire of my bloviation — heck, I tire of my bloviation — I’ve decided to give you folks a slight break. I’ve enlisted the help of two of the best Hawks bloggers around: Bret LaGree of Hoopinion and Jason Walker of The Human Highlight Blog. (I would encourage you to patronize both sites; I do.)
Question No. 1: Are the Hawks legit contenders?
LaGree: “The Hawks have turned the East into a four-team race and they’re not necessarily the fourth team in that race. Obviously the path to the NBA finals would be much easier if they draw Boston in the second round than if have to go through Cleveland and Orlando. Even though the Hawks would not be favored in a seven-game series against either Cleveland or Orlando, they’re capable of beating either of those teams.”
Walker: “The Hawks have the talent to seriously compete for the championship, yes. At this halfway point in the season, the Hawks are among the elite in all advanced statistical categories, so the talent is producing at a top shelf rate. On the court, they have dispatched the Celtics three times [once even with Kevin Garnett], showed an even matchup with the Cleveland Cavaliers, and beaten some top Western teams [Denver, Dallas, Portland, Utah, Phoenix] proving their mettle as a top team there as well … This is the season the Hawks get out of the second round of the playoffs.”
Me: The Hawks are good enough to win two playoff series and reach the Eastern finals. I don’t know if they can win three.
Question No. 2: Do the Hawks need to make a midseason trade?
LaGree: “I think about this a lot — because who doesn’t like hypothetical transactions? — but I struggle to see a plausible scenario where the Hawks have someone to trade that another team wants and they can afford to give up. Barring a serious injury, I expect they’ll stand pat. Which shouldn’t surprise us as continuity would be the defining characteristic of this team’s ascent.”
Walker: “What might be missing from the Hawks is a super-duper-star to make a path to a championship easier, but I don’t believe the Hawks are going to or should disrupt what they have to make such a deal. They are going to have to go the Detroit Piston share-the-ball route to a championship.”
Me: I don’t see an obvious personnel match that can be gotten before the trade deadline. Antawn Jamison of the Wizards, you say? He’s 33, he makes $11 million and his contract has two more years to run. And don’t the Hawks have to save money to keep Joe Johnson this summer?
Question No. 3:Why aren’t more fans coming to Philips Arena? (The Hawks are 21st in a 30-team league in home attendance.)
LaGree: “We had a good discussion about attendance on the site last week. The consensus seemed to be some combination of: 1. Traffic makes it difficult to get to Philips by 7 p.m. on weeknights from a fair percentage of the metro area; 2. Joe Johnson’s style of play, though effective, doesn’t capture the imagination of the casual fan that checked out on the Hawks sometime during the previous decade; 3. There just may not be a lot of basketball fans here.”
Walker: “Atlanta fans need the big draw to take them to sporting events. Big names and big events get their attention and their dollars. The Hawks packed them in when they had Dominique. The Falcons [did] with Michael Vick, the Braves with the national attention in the early ’90s … The Hawks aren’t there yet — but they’re getting closer. As of today, they are 10th in road attendance, their best showing in a long time and a litmus test of their ‘it’ factor. For over a decade, and even in the Lenny Wilkens years, this team hasn’t been the most fun to watch, but they are now and being at Philips Arena when things are happening is a great use of the sports dollar.”
Me: I thought the crowds would have picked up by now, but I’ve about given up trying to figure out the Atlanta sports fans. But I do think there are enough people in this city who like basketball to fill an arena on a regular basis. Maybe by May it will happen. Maybe.
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134 comments Add your comment
G-Money
January 25th, 2010
12:06 pm
There are some exciting things happening with this team. As they continue to mature and grow the fan base will expand. I like the direction they are headed in.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:08 pm
So do I, G-Money. And kudos for being first.
big mat
January 25th, 2010
12:10 pm
First!
Matt
January 25th, 2010
12:14 pm
National “Boring” Association. Sorry, but there is only so much isolation/one on one that I can take. Much prefer college hoops, but not GT due the same problem, lack of fundamentals.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:15 pm
Close, big mat. So close.
And I think the NBA has backed off the two-man games and the isolation, if only by a bit, tell it … It’s a better game now than five years ago.
Astro Joe
January 25th, 2010
12:18 pm
Great stat that the Hawks are a top 10 drawer on the road. And ESPN added several Hawks games to their line-up, sugesting that they can sell advertisements during Hawks games. Or said differently, people outside of Atlanta have taken notice. Maybe now that football is over AND with better weather, local fans will make their way down to see possibly the lone Atlanta post-season team.
Mike
January 25th, 2010
12:19 pm
It’s the economy. Most inner-city fan or even some suburban families can lay down $100 or better to see a Hawks game. So we rely on the local broadcast. We get the same disrespect when the Braves are in the playoff. Bad economic, some people just don’t understand.
Ree Roe
January 25th, 2010
12:19 pm
Good article as always Mark. Could we trade Marvin & Mo for say Caron Butler? I think the Hawks could use an upgrade at the 3 position
-REEcently Roe!!!
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:19 pm
The Hawks of the late ’90s — Mutombo, Mookie, Smith, Laettner, Henderson — weren’t much fun to watch. This team is, Astro Joe. That’s why I don’t get it.
ATL Native
January 25th, 2010
12:20 pm
Enter your comments here
O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
12:22 pm
Mark,
1) I think the Hawks are legit contenders. Both Cleveland games were winnable, and we’ve beaten Boston 3 times.
2) I dont think the Hawks need to make a midseason trade, for the reasons mentioned. It would be very tough to find a match (although I think we could use Marcus Camby, the Clips will not trade him and his expiring, plus what would we offer).
3) Home attendance is low because fans would prefer to stay home and watch the game from the cheap and comfortable living room, with the added bonus of listening to Dominique.
I think what the Hawks need to work on is internal (focus, intensity, adjustments etc).
ATL Native
January 25th, 2010
12:22 pm
NBA…Give both teams 100 points and five minutes to play. Boring!!! Go Hawks.
cattle dawg
January 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
Im 2 hrs south of atl and want to come up for a good weekend game but just cant get the timing right.Ive actually watched a couple of games on the tube this year. Which I never do.
allan in texas
January 25th, 2010
12:24 pm
Living here in longhorn country I love the hawks. It just seems to me like they are missing something. Would you trade a marvin williams for a rudy gay? Would it mess up their chemistry? Thanks.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:25 pm
I suggested Marvin-for-Butler last summer as a sign-and-trade, Ree Roe, but Marvin’s value is even lower since he signed that new contract.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
I’d make the Marvin-for-Rudy-Gay trade in a New York minute, Allan in Texas. But Memphis would not.
chuckw/deadjournalist
January 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
Regarding the last question, I think there are a couple of other factors at play as well:
- First, Atlanta has always been slow to react – we are as cynical of a fan base as there is in the country. There’s an over-riding “prove it to me and then I’ll come” mentality.
- Second, Atlanta has been one of the hardest-hit areas because of the economy. It’s hard for most folks to justify the amount of money it takes to go to a game (and not site in the rafters) when that money just isn’t in the budget.
- Third, scheduling/media coverage. Starting a game at 7PM is a hard start-time because of traffic – but the lack of TV/Web attention also makes it hard for the casual fan to know when I big game is one the horizon. Yes, all the transplants like their stars, but they also know about the games because coverage is much better. (Not to mention you can’t hear radio broadcasts at night because of the low-wattage.)
- Lastly, an area that wasn’t touch on: How are TV ratings this season? I’ll admit I haven’t been to a game in a few season – but I do watch any game I able to. Granted, I was watching when they were winning 13 games, but I would imagine TV ratings have to have increased.
Charlie
January 25th, 2010
12:26 pm
big mat = TOOL
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:28 pm
ChuckW, Stan Kasten said back in the ’80s — when the Hawks were getting rolling and the crowds weren’t yet following — that it always took Atlanta a half-season longer to catch on than it did other markets.
And that’s a good question about the TV ratings. I’ll ask.
Freshmaker
January 25th, 2010
12:29 pm
I think if they can get to (and especially if they make it out of) the 2nd round the season will be a success. The goal is always to win a championship, but we might still be a year or two away from that. I’m very happy with the team as constituted. To answer your questions:
1) I think the Hawks are legit contenders. They have proven that they can play with the best teams in the league. It would be helpful if they didn’t have to face Orlando, but they can beat anyone. The biggest improvement, to me, is that they are much better on the road than in seasons past. Beating Dallas, Portland and Boston on the road were huge for their confidence. They were also up 17 on Cleveland at one point on the road, even though they lost the game in the end. They know they can play with them.
2) I don’t think they do, for the reasons you mentioned. I don’t know that there’s an impact player out there that they could get that wouldn’t hurt them too much, cap-wise. Then again, I never would’ve thought Sund could get Crawford for Law and Claxton. Getting a guy like Jamison, but would the Wizards really want, say, Marvin Williams in return? The trade market will be fun to monitor as the deadline nears, but I don’t think the Hawks make a move.
3) I think this is a function of the early start time for weekday games. Getting to the arena by 7pm is tough for folks that live outside the perimeter. The fans do seem to show up and support the Hawks when they are playing decent opposition. When teams like the Kings and Nets come in, though, you’re going to get a sparse crowd.
Anyway, my 2 cents.
Grip
January 25th, 2010
12:30 pm
It is time for the NBA to take control and highlight two young and up and coming players, Josh and AL and one veteran, Jamal Crawford, Joe does not come off as a person who craves the attention. We need the league to Co-sign our emergence, to the people of this town, or a breakthrough to the Eastern Conference finals. The problems is without a superstar it will really be difficult. Has any one noticed the small amount of trips we take to the free throw line? The truth is we are better than Boston, as good or better than Cleveland, and a bad matchup for a fading Orlando team, but we could get lucky and never see them in the playoffs. But a top ten draw on the road, THAT IS INCREDIBLE.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
12:33 pm
It’s telling, Grip. And I can attest that writers in other cities are taking the Hawks very seriously.
All I'm Saying Is...
January 25th, 2010
12:36 pm
I don’t have the numbers handy but I believe Hawks average attendance has improved over the past five years.
On the other hand, don’t ignore the obvious as the economy has had a real impact on number of season ticket holders and the walk-up crowd. While I realize NBA tickets are expensive in all markets, the city of Atlanta has less than a million people and the entire metro area has several million but that’s spread out over 20 plus counties. Like I typed, don’t ignore the obvious (expense) when compared to other options: for instance, I, my wife, and my 11-years-old-son attended that last home game versus the Celtics and three good tickets (lower level in ‘the corner’) alone cost me (via Ticketmaster) over $300 (and I wish I was exaggerating). $300 and I haven’t even paid for parking/transportation yet or had anything to eat! That’s steep, people, so I will not likely be able to attend another home game this season (and I cannot justify three season tickets or find enough friends interested in buying them with me). Some sports are becoming in person viewing for strictly single people, childless folks and or those who can get tickets via corporations.
As for your other point, Hawks are legitimately one of the top four teams in the East and playing like it. Not sure if we can get past Orlando or Cleveland given their low post and inside presence unless we purposely run the floor on offense and/or go with a three guard lineup to try and make that a competitive advantage of ours. Either way, loving the Hawks and they are much more fun to watch!
LET’S GO HAWKS!
matt6buckeye
January 25th, 2010
12:40 pm
O’Brien,
I’m gonna assume you were being sarcastic about people wanting to listen to Nique. Seriously, he’s awful. Steve Smith was absolutely fantastic as our color guy, but he left for greener pastures. Now we’re stuck with the “legend who has no business speaking in public…ever”. He’s just a mess of mumbling, awful grammar, and cliches upon cliches. For a guy who might be one of the 25 best players of all time, he seems to have no idea what he’s watching. Bob Rathbun seems to have more pertinent analysis.
Going from Smiddy to Nique was worse than its gonna be going from Boog to Chip for Braves games this year. Time to warm up the radio.
ChippersLoveChild
January 25th, 2010
12:44 pm
Superstar attractions don’t always pack them in, ask the Thrashers… the reason the attendance is down, is because this city has terrible sports fans! The end, case closed. Stop trying to figure it out, Atlanta proves it time and time again, the fans here just aren’t that good.
Khao$
January 25th, 2010
12:46 pm
For me to consider us “legit” we’ve got to win more on the road and not let the have nots (Knicks) beat us. Granted, we’re 10-9 on the road as we speak. This next stretch of games will be huge.
WhatIThink
January 25th, 2010
12:51 pm
This is a good team but at the same time they like to give you a reality check by loosing to New York and any other team that we should be wining agaist. I think the Hawks worst enemy is themselves. Some nights they look completely unbeatable and some nights they look like they really don’t want to put in the effort. If I could only convince the Hawks that every team they face is either tied with them or ahead of them in the standings. But as far as the future, I have always thought the NBA is a super star leauge. Before you go screaming Detroit, just remeber only Detroit has ever pulled off a championship. Everyone else had a star. When I look at the team I like Joe Johnson but I don’t think he is the awnser. He is a top 25 player but leaders are defined in the playoffs and he always disapears, and none of us know what night Joe is going to show up. He also holds the ball WAY too long and that seams to put the rest of the team to sleep. Here is how it works: Bibby hands the ball to Joe, Joe dances and takes 14 seconds off the shot clock, the rest of the team stands and waits, Joe second guesses and throws the ball to Horford, Horford as 4 seconds to think of a shot and something ugly goes up. When you need Joe to take a game over he does not, when you need him to give you 30 on a night no one else is shooting, he can’t. As a matter of fact I don’t know day in and day out what version of Joe is going to show up. When he is on, its great, but when he is off, he disapears. To me Crawford is the other half of Joe that Joe does not have. Watching Dwade last year single handedly push us to a game 7 because he is too proud to go quietly is what I see missing in Joe
Marcus
January 25th, 2010
12:53 pm
agree with khao$. for us diehards .. following isn’t hard. For the casual fan, momentum killers like getting blasted by the NYK twice@ HOME and letting a young team like OKC grind a W, when we are supposed to be serious contenders sends the “inconsistent” flag up the pole and justifies (in their minds) staying away.
Khao$
January 25th, 2010
12:54 pm
Sometimes I feel like we’re a big league city with a small town mentality when it comes to sports. Anything dealing with college football, we’re all over. But, we treat the pros like a plague. Granted our pro teams haven’t given us much to cheer for throughout the years. But even when they do, we don’t draw well unless
a) we have a huge name on the roster (Vick, Nique)or
b) we’re a feel good story (91-95 Braves)
Ineptitude aside, Blank (the only owner in this town with a brain), Liberty Media and the Spirit have a tough task on their hands.
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
12:54 pm
Nicely done MB, As always us regular Hawks bloggers love to see you “big boys” pay us some attention. I think the consensus view of the Hawks ability to go deep in the playoffs (ECF appearance) is accurate. Why attendance is still down? I don’t know, but I love the 7:00 times, jump on MARTA avoid traffic home by 10:00pm, and I always have access to good seats, so selfishly, I don’t care if the fair weather fans want to come out(Now, I know I should care about fiances, etc, but I am being selfish here). Ultimately, I say the poor attendance has to somehow be the fault of Dave O’brien (I mean after Griffey, isn’t it all his fault?), Jeff Schultz (just cause ya know) or Mike Woodson (since he gets all the blame and none of the credit anyway)
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
12:55 pm
I also have to agree with matt6buckeye… We all love ‘Nique, but the dude may be the worst color commentator ever! Mark you know he actually ended a game by saying “time to get out the marshmellows and make some home fries”?!?!!
Russ, the Temporary Mascot
January 25th, 2010
12:56 pm
They need a good little mascot and I know where they can find one. I can hang out with the A-Town Dancers.
Hawksfan30
January 25th, 2010
12:56 pm
The rumors are Joe Johnson is going to walk and go to Chicago or somewhere else in the offseason. Why not get Jamison for insurance. And it would cause match-up problems all over the court if you had him, Josh and Al in the front court on offense. Josh is quick enough to gaurd a three on defense. Even if you cant get Jamison, add another big man and get Haywood. Hes avg. 10 boards a game right now. Go Hawks. We could beat the Cavs if it wasnt 8 on 5.
Lowcountry Bulldawg
January 25th, 2010
12:57 pm
Here is a reason: Family Night 2/5 vs. Bulls
Section 316
Row C
Seats 1-4
Family of four? $106.40. Sorry, not sitting in Section 316 dropping $200 for the evening and driving down from Chattanooga to watch. Nique ain’t suiting up anytime soon.
O'Brien
January 25th, 2010
12:58 pm
matt6buckeye,
I was being sarcastic. I can do without hearing “Heat Check”, or “Hawks have nimbers” and the usual name mispronounciations.
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
12:59 pm
Hawksfan30- Do you really want to take Josh, who’s dominating on off the ball inside defense, rebounding and interior play IS THE BIGGEST REASON the Hawks have improved this year (plus Crawford) and move him to the perimeter? Don’t you realize that when he is on the perimeter is when the Hawks lose? C’mon man watch the games.
WhatIThink
January 25th, 2010
12:59 pm
Joe Johnson is not the awnser
Lowcountry Bulldawg
January 25th, 2010
12:59 pm
Section 316
Row C
Seats 1-4
$106.25, that is one reason. Worst seats in the house and on “FAMILY NIGHT” versus the Bulls (2/5) this is the cost. Drive down from Chattanooga and this is easily a $250.00 trip. Its simply not worth the effort anymore, and Nigue isn’t suiting up anytime soon.
Russ, the Temporary Mascot
January 25th, 2010
1:00 pm
A little dog mascot is the answer.
sfh
January 25th, 2010
1:08 pm
one of the dumbest moves was to move the start time to 7pm from 7:30pm. you can’t get to the games on time from the burbs. same goes for thrasher games
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
1:09 pm
The New York losses were the low points of the season. One you can write off; two you can’t.
sam
January 25th, 2010
1:10 pm
why i dont go to Hawks games
1. it costs too much
2. too hard to get down and back
3. 2 young kids
4. wife wont let me
Ree Roe
January 25th, 2010
1:10 pm
I never understood why people wanted Antwan Jamison when we already have a PF (Josh Smith). If only we had a solid 3, we’d be fine. Solid bench, plenty of scoring & end of game closers (Jamal & Joe).
If Joe does walk, what’s our backup plan? Do we make a run at DWade?
-REEcently Roe?
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
1:11 pm
Why do people think that Joe “disappears” in the playoffs? One bad series against Clevland when he was hurt? He looked great against Boston and Miami. Oh wait, we deal with hyperbole and perception…not facts right?
Dwayne Wade
January 25th, 2010
1:12 pm
A man can dream, but a perfect move would be to allow Joe Johnson to walk after this season and sign Dwayne Wade, who has a player option for next season, as a free agent. Joe is an outstanding player, but during crunch time running the offense through him slows the team down and isolation plays that leave the other players out of the flow.
Don’t even get me started about Lebron.
sam
January 25th, 2010
1:13 pm
does john koncak have a son?
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
1:14 pm
If there’s a backup plan for Joe leaving, Ree Roe, I’m unaware of its contents.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
1:14 pm
Joe had a big Game 7 against Miami but wasn’t very good until then. He got hurt in Game 2 against Cleveland and probably shouldn’t have played in Games 3 and 4. And there’s some thought that Joe was fighting an injury — before the one in the playoffs — the latter part of last season.
JabboRockefeller
January 25th, 2010
1:15 pm
The economy is a huge factor. Especially for folks with kids, and for those who live outside the perimeter.
We also don’t have that electric mega-star, who can pack any building, anytime, anywhere.
Barnacle Bill Bavasi
January 25th, 2010
1:15 pm
I think the Hawks should trade Bibby and a 2024 second round pick to Cleveland for Lebron James. That might increase attendance by a couple dozen a night.
nique
January 25th, 2010
1:15 pm
my theory on attendance: people don’t go to the games because decent tix are too expensive, and most people here live in the burbs and don’t want to schlep. please note that i don’t live in the burbs nor do i condone it.
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
1:16 pm
Ree Roe- Joe is not going to another team. The economics of basketball don’t favor free agents leaving their original team. A max contract offer for another team is only 15% greater than the years of service so for Joe that will be roughly 16-17 milion per year, which the Hawks have already offered. Another team that offers more has to pay double above that in luxury tax. Your own team can pay more without salary cap hit (i.e. Bird rule). In fact it makes resigning Joe as a free agent easier on the salary cap structure for the Hawks. So either NY or NJ will just have to lose their minds and offer a huge deal which will fianancially cripple them and Joe would have to want to play for them and they stink. Or he will go to another team for less money, which at this point in his career would be stupid given that this will likely represent his last big payday contract. Plus, the Hawks are contenders now, did you notice?
Art Vandelay
January 25th, 2010
1:18 pm
I think part of the attendance/recognition issue is that the Hawks’ marketing and PR teams do a lousy job of calling attention to this team’s outstanding play. The only place I EVER see an ad for them is during one of their locally televised games, and nobody from the team seems to be reaching out to the national outlets like ESPN with stories that could be of interest. Maybe they take out a banner ad or two on ajc.com and even something in the print version (there is still a print version, right Mark?), but overall this team’s publicity machine is pathetic.
bob
January 25th, 2010
1:18 pm
the hawks would have a few more wins if they did not have the 8 on 5 disadvantage and a lack of trips to the foul line when playing teams with “super stars”.
Georgia didn't win the East in 07'
January 25th, 2010
1:23 pm
NBA = TBA, the Thug Basketball Association……………………when does College Football start?
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
1:25 pm
Yes, Art, the AJC does publish a print edition. And a fine one it is.
JC
January 25th, 2010
1:29 pm
Walker is spot-on with the big-names getting butts in seats at Philips. Go to a game against LA, Cleveland or Boston and you’ll see a packed house with more Bryant, James and Garnett jerseys than Johnson, Smith and Bibby. These are locals – the same ones who light up the message boards every time Iverson becomes available with poorly-reasoned arguments on why the Hawks should sign him.
JabboRockefeller
January 25th, 2010
1:33 pm
If the Hawks were in the Northern Burbs, attendance would be MUCH higher. Lotza folks are afraid of Atlanta after dark.
Daniel
January 25th, 2010
1:34 pm
So Mark.. The game 5 26point, 5assist performance doesn’t count? Or the game four 15 point, 5 assist, 3 rebound performance in a game that was a defensive struggle count? What constitutes a good playoff performance then? Good grief… We won those games remember?
Stockdog
January 25th, 2010
1:47 pm
LowCountry Bulldawg, I feel your pain. Luckily for me, my kids are grown, so it’s just me and my wife. As for the Hawks getting to the finals, I think that it is solely about match ups. If we get the right match up in the second round we will be alright. As for re-signing Joe Johnson, there is no back up plan in place. It is Joe of bust. He wants the max. The question is whether or not he deserves the max contract. I don’t think he is worth the price
WonderDawg
January 25th, 2010
1:48 pm
Mark, everytime I let myself get convinced that the Hawks can contend with Cleveland and Orlando, I watch the Cavs play anybody, and watch the refs dictate the outcome of the games by calling touch fouls on any player who is in the same zip code as King James. I saw the same thing the other night with Durant, who got to the line more times than the entire Hawks team! I’m not a conspiracy theorist otherwise, but do you (or anyone else) notice this??
Volman
January 25th, 2010
1:56 pm
Good job, Mr. Bradley. I’ve been in a bit of hiding since the whole “l**e ki***n” debacle in Knoxville. Yes, I blurred out his name like a curse word, and kept it lower-case.
I have to agree with you, the Hawks can win two rounds this year, but I can see them getting “upset” too. I sure hope not, though.
It’s fun to see this team grow up… Having had season tickets for four years now, it’s great seeing them getting better and better. They CAN make it to the finals this year, but they are going to need help from the referees…And no, that just means the referees call a fair and balanced game.
Loved your “call out” blog of the NBA and that criminal David Stern. There needs to be more of this. You guys need to rip him a new one.
Keep it going Mr. Bradley, and go Hawks!
WonderDawg
January 25th, 2010
1:59 pm
Mark, everytime I convince myself the Hawks can compete with the Clevelands and Orlandos, I watch the Cavs play anyone and the refs control the outcome of the game by calling a touch foul on anyone in the same zip code of King James. Same thing with Kevin Durant in Phillips last week. He went to the line more than the whole Hawks lineup! Does this make you scratch your head like me?
HawksGottaGetIt
January 25th, 2010
2:03 pm
I think if the Hawks will make a trade, I think the trade should come in the way of Marvin Williams or honestly even Mike Bibby. Bibby has lost a step or two anyway, but he does provide leadership. I think the Hawks are missing a legitimate ‘Big Man’ to shut down the middle…If somebody breaks down their D, they get killed in the paint. Horford is good, but he’s not center material. They need somebody to stuff the ball, and make the other team afraid to step into the paint…Our perimeter, 1:1 D is phenomenonal. We’re just soft in the middle…
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
2:07 pm
Thanks, Volman. Condolences on Kiffin. You’re well rid of him.
Russ, the Temporary Mascot
January 25th, 2010
2:08 pm
I read the print version. It is very absorbent.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
2:09 pm
I forgot Game 5, Daniel. That counts, yes. But I will say that, from my distant perspective in the mezzanine of Philips Arena, it did appear Joe was fighting it the whole series. He finally broke through, though.
Sonny Clusters
January 25th, 2010
2:17 pm
When we was playing ball we were invited to Dominique’s house and it was big! We saw the big “DW” on the gate and thought it was Darrell Waltrip’s place but Dominique was the one that answered the door. When we got inside he autographed some cupcakes and we ate them. Jeff said he’d always have that autograph with him but that thought passed with the cupcake. Since that time we don’t get our food autographed.
KBP
January 25th, 2010
2:22 pm
Marvin is not the problem for this team. The first team is built around Joe and the second team is built around Jamal. If they shared the ball more, Al, Josh, and Marvin would have better numbers. I think Coach Woodson may be Marvin’s problem just as he was Boris Diaw’s problem. Right now, he is Jeff Teague’s problem too. I am a Coach Woddson fan, big-time, but certain players just will not flourish under him. That’s not an indictment against him, it is just the way it is.
WonderDawg
January 25th, 2010
2:25 pm
I have hopes for Teague, but have yet to see him make a jump shot. Did he shoot the ball in college?
Reid in EAV
January 25th, 2010
2:33 pm
This probably shows how out of touch I am, but recently I’ve investigated taking my 7-year-old to Hawks games several times. Now, I live a mere 3 miles from downtown and know lots of, um, “secret” parking spots in and around the arena (plus MARTA’s always an easy option for us) so the usual suburban objections don’t apply to us. Plus, we have lots of experience getting in and out of professional sporting events, with our tradition of going to nearly every Braves Sunday afternoon home game (and running the bases afterward.)
But whether you blame it on NBA salaries, smaller seating capacity or fewer home games, the fact remains that decent Hawks tickets (i.e. not those in the rafters behind the goals) bring about serious sticker shock. I was absolutely amazed that I couldn’t really get anywhere down the sidelines (even in the rafters) for less than $20 apiece.
That said, we’ll probably capitalize on the Wednesday promotions that has all the upper bowl tickets going for $15 each. But still, being a school night, that’s not ideal for my daughter (though it suits me fine.)
Dr. Warren
January 25th, 2010
2:43 pm
Is Jason Walker accidentally channeling Bill Simmons with his “Super-duper star” reference, or is he copying him outright without a citation?
Willie Coyote
January 25th, 2010
2:48 pm
As far as attendance:
Until there is a way for people, from as far away as Macon or Columbus to get off work and get up to ATL during the week, crowds will be sporadic. When you look at cities like Chicago or NY, people can hop on a train and get to the game. If you don’t live in the immediate metro area, it is next to impossible to make it to Phillips by tipoff without taking time off work.
Willie Coyote
January 25th, 2010
2:56 pm
As far as trades, I like Troy Murphy for this team. It’s probably not doable but his rebounding and ability to scorre inside and (especially) outside would make this team better. But that’s just wishful thinking on my part.
THHB
January 25th, 2010
3:06 pm
Dr. Warren,
Totally accidental, though I have enjoyed reading Simmons over the years. As many words and articles as he has posted in the last decade—I’m sure it happens often
Kathleen
January 25th, 2010
3:25 pm
Hey matt6buckeye–Can’t believe you don’t think Nique is a good commentator. My husband and I love him. He is smart and entertaining and has excellent rapport with Bob. He’s a big part of the reason we tune in religiously to watch the Hawks. My husband is a musician and wants to write a song of Dominiquisms.
Dr. Warren
January 25th, 2010
3:47 pm
Gotcha. It is a convincing NBA theory, not unique to Simmons. But as you’ve acknowledged, the super-duper part belongs to him. (Though he pilfered it himself from somebody in the 70’s, of course).
Dr. Warren
January 25th, 2010
3:49 pm
SONNY CLUSTERS–did you catch my note a few blogs back about DQ here in Shanghai? It’s popular, especially the green tea flavor. Krispy-Kreme opened up, also, just down the block, last month. There may be some sort of endorsement deal I can work for you if you can learn a little Mandarin.
BPJ
January 25th, 2010
4:21 pm
We’re going to find out how good a coach Woodson is. He needs to get the Hawks to: (a) play intense, team defense every night, every quarter; (b) move the ball around better in half-court offense (c) get Williams and Pachulia to play closer to their potential.
The other factor is injuries. Last year’s Hawks playoffs team had 3 starters hobbled by injury, and a weak bench. Teams that get to the finals may not be injury free (who is late in the season?), but injuries are usually less of a factor for the finalists. The best thing about the Hawks improved bench is that the starters are not compiling so many minutes, which means less fatigue and lower likelihood of injuries at the end of the season.
Mark Bradley
January 25th, 2010
4:37 pm
Jason swears any resemblance to Bill Simmons is purely coincidental, Dr. Warren. And I have to admit I didn’t know that was a Simmons catch-hyphenate. I would have guessed Dickie V. coined it.
Vic
January 25th, 2010
5:14 pm
I DON’T think the Hawks are contenders because they’re too inconsistent. That’s been the case for years. You won’t consistently cheer for a team that doesn’t play that way. Of cours JJ and Crawford will get their numbers because of all the iso’s that are run for them. But unlike the Championship Pistons, the Hawks don’t move the ball enough and force the defense to work. Look at last season’s playoffs. They would win, but the losses were horrible. As they say, you live and die by the jump shot. I think Horford is not being utilized enough. You can tell he works on his game, but yet there is no inside/outside ball movement. That’s what a better coach will give this team. Once a coaching change is made, this team will go to the next level.
Peter
January 25th, 2010
5:21 pm
This is a team that has potential, but lacks intensity and real desire at times.
Why do they start so slow many games ?
Why is Marvin Williams missing most of the time?
Why is Joe Johnson taking so many one on one shots, and stifling the Offense?
What is the Offense ?
Why is Josh smith taking so many long shots when wide open, he could dribble in a step then shoot?
It seems the team is VERY ATHLETIC, and uses that as a crutch, and doesn’t have that Micheal Jordan type killer instinct to win from Second One as the game starts.
ILL-logical
January 25th, 2010
5:27 pm
As good as the Hawks have been this season, there are lingering doubts about the post season because of the inconsistent play to date and ,my personal favorite, the caliber of the coaching.
The coach, who is maligned daily, has done a great job as a baby sitter for the young talent.However,I contend that with some tweaks-the Spirit group’s budget only allows for tweaks- the playoff prospects would improve bigtime:
1. Give Coach Drew reposibility for the , including line up changes;
2. Start Jamal and bring Bibby and Marvin off of the bench for added fire power and experiece: Bibby become Eddie house but with a handle and Marvin can sub for Josh an Joe; and
3.Start Randolph Morris at the 5. He is the one of the few on the current roster who has heft and height-a legit 6′10”. Give him 10-15 minutes a game and then adjust to whatever the other team’s defense offers. The Hawks can go big; small ;fast-Teague becomes a defensive stopper for the small,guards who torch us now and bring an array of talent off of the bench to adapt to any adjustments made.
The point is that even though none of these changes will ever be instituted by the current regime, there are ways to get better without breaking what little bank there is available. and it could produce the brand of baskestball that would put more buts in seats on a regular and continious basis.
Arlo
January 25th, 2010
5:34 pm
Man, who cares. I can’t wait for the “Way too long” NBA season to be over! I lost interest (though not much) when Michael Jordan retired!
drmaryb
January 25th, 2010
5:36 pm
This is the NBA man! & We ain’t got no money to go to a Game? We Po’ Folks can sit on our couches and watch at home man! (have some fun with the vernacular!) LOL!
London Hawks Fan
January 25th, 2010
5:37 pm
I’d love to go to a Hawks game but I live in London. Why don’t you send them over here for one of those spreading the American Culture games.
I remember going as a kid when they played in Alexander Memorial for awhile. Saw Artis Gilmore swat a few shots that night.
drmaryb
January 25th, 2010
5:42 pm
Does Joe Johnson have any emotions? He looks catatonic. Does he have a girlfriend? & What do they do? Just sit and look at each other!
Joe is a super-talent and we need him more than he needs us – but does he ever smile or yell or scream? This guy is a 5-tool player but his persona is more of a silent-assassin. ssssh! don’t say a word… lol
Nick
January 25th, 2010
5:44 pm
$95 to sit in the lower levels far back. $30 to get a worse view than on tv. The recession may not be as big a factor as it was last year, but you buy a ticket a drink and a dog and you have spent almost $60! So cheap date it is not. The NBA is going corporate. The Finals are full of rich guys who could care less until the team is actually on the verge of winning. The real fans are stuck to watching it with friends at home…
Jeff
January 25th, 2010
6:38 pm
Mark if we want to compare the interest of the fan bases, we should consider both the Philips attendance and the TV/radio audience. How does Atlanta compare to other markets via these media outlets?
Edgar
January 25th, 2010
7:08 pm
I go to Hawks games and I for one love it when they play teams like the Kings and the Nyets…
$50 floor seats on stubhub!
hawkfan
January 25th, 2010
7:09 pm
Yes, regular season tix are very expensive in my opinion. Hard to justify paying almost $100/person (including transportation and food) for good seats unless it’s against an elite team or a playoff game.
In the 08-09 season I attended a Pacers game and a Knicks game. They are more fun to watch in person b/c you get a better feel for the game, but usually it’s difficult to justify spending so much money if you can watch the game in a good HDTV at home.
As far as Dominique, I loved him as a player but I cringe whenever I hear him talk during a broadcast. He stutters, uses awful grammar, and usually just states the obvious or rehashes Rathburn’s comments. Despite his obvious limitations as a play-by-play analyst, think the Spirit Group thought he could draw ratings and that the fan base would forgive him simply for being ‘Nique, the home-town hero.
As far as the team, the potential for a championship is really there, but I think the Hawks are still 1 or 2 years away from a ring. IMO they need another impact player ala JCrawford, but probably somebody in the frontcourt to play with Smoove and Horford.
Dennis G. Berdanis
January 25th, 2010
7:18 pm
Move out to Cobb or Gwinnett and the Hawks would fill an arena even in medicre seasons. That’s where the basketball fans who have money and will buy tickets live.
nolan
January 25th, 2010
7:28 pm
there is at least one guaranteed josh smith throw down dunk every game, and often it’s an alley-oop. that alone is worth ten bucks for a ticket!
Senator Blutarski
January 25th, 2010
8:18 pm
you didn’t hear it from me–the Hawks have been involved in a top-secret science project for several years involving clones. Yup–the low profile clones of Bill Walton, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are almost of age and the Hawks have exclusive contract rights! (The young teenage clones have been honing their skills at a secret facility in Area 51)
northcyde
January 25th, 2010
8:35 pm
ATL fans in general, are just sorry sports fans. I feel sorry for you guys who actually do support ATL sports teams, because the fairweather nature in that city give the entire town a bad name. 65% of the fans in the arena may be Hawks fans. The other 35% are either fans of another team, or simply at the game because it’s the “in thing” to do. Going to a Hawks playoff game is the “in thing to do”.
Going to see the Hawks play the Pacers isn’t, because 35% of the crowd isn’t Hawks fans. That’s why you’ll see the arena only 1/2 full during those types of games.
I drive 4.5 hours to Atlanta about 5 – 10 times a year . . . just to see the Hawks . . . no matter who they play. My next trip will probably be for the Milwaukee game at the end of February. That’s on a Sunday evening. I’m sure there will be only about 11,000 in the house for that game.
It’s just sad that this city can’t get behind this team like it should.
The newspaper ( yes you AJC ) can do a better job as well in hyping up the Hawks.
And no, if the Hawks played in Cobb or Gwinett, it wouldn’t matter. They still wouldn’t show up to the games. And the traffic issue is BS, because you’re going into ATL for a game, where the traffic is less ( until you get around the arena ).
junebaby
January 25th, 2010
9:09 pm
Dennis G. Berdanis@7:18pm…., so what are u saying? the players are fine because they entertain you and your friends, but you guys want no interaction with anyone who don’t look or act like republicans(code word)? imo, u should just stay in the burbs, because we don’t miss that kind of attitude in the city. u would be better off admitting that you, a grown man is fearful of his own shadow. it would perhaps, make things easier for you if you admitted your fear factor. then u could seek help, either in counseling or self defense classes. or u could hire a bodyguard. i’ve heard, there are people in the burbs who will do anything for a few hits of meth.
Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2010
11:12 pm
I think when football season is over attendance will pick up somewhat. We all know football is king in the south. Tickets to basketball games are actually pretty affordable compared to a lot of other things to do in ATL (if you have a student ID lying around they are even cheaper), so ticket prices shouldn’t be too much of a turn off.
Tweets that mention Two astute bloggers help dumb ol' me assess the Hawks | Mark Bradley -- Topsy.com
January 25th, 2010
11:19 pm
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Najeh Davenpoop
January 25th, 2010
11:19 pm
I always laugh at people who say Hawks games cost them $100 or something ridiculous. An upper-level ticket is $30. If you have a student ID lying around, it’s $15. If the upper level isn’t good enough for you, a scalper will be glad to sell you a 200-level seat for $40 if you show up halfway through the first quarter. Nobody is forcing you to buy overpriced arena food. If you are that much of a fat azz that you can’t wait until the game is over to eat, it’s not like they pat you down or anything — just buy a Taco Bell burrito or Great Wrap in the CNN Center and sneak it in your pocket. That won’t cost you more than $3. Don’t feel like paying $10 for parking? Take MARTA, the station is right next to the arena, and yes it is perfectly safe, I ride it all the time.
Seriously, if you are smart, a Hawks game shouldn’t cost you more than $35. I’m lucky enough to have a student ID card, so usually I spend no more than $18 on a game.
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January 26th, 2010
12:01 am
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Nick
January 26th, 2010
12:15 am
I know we are talking about actual attendance at the arena but can someone please tell 790 the Zone to give it up as the flagship station. It is ridiculous that a PRO basketball team with tons of potential, are being broadcast on a station with NO, I repeat, NO signal after dark. If people coul;d hear the games when they are in their cars instead of just static maybe more people would start showing up at the arena.
scottbravesfan
January 26th, 2010
12:58 am
Atlanta is a terrible sports town
And NBA tickets are incredibly expensive.
jondy
January 26th, 2010
1:30 am
your close bradley. Now just finish the deal, give these guys the reigns to your columns, and then you can retire and never write another bad article again. AH, it would be great to have you out of here. Maybe you should write a hypothetical blog on how this town would feel with out you in it anymore. Keep up the good work… oh wait…
Andre
January 26th, 2010
8:39 am
Mark, I’ve been in Atlanta my whole life. 26 years. I am still unable to understand our fans here. I think Joe Johnson, should do a David Justice and say how other cities fans are more fired up than ours. It’s true. I know it’s hard for them answer a question in post game interviews “how is the home court advantage?” HORRIBLE. Truthfully, I believe A LOT of people still have a bad taste in their mouth about the Dominique trade. Also, I do agree with the lack of star-power here. Josh Smith is the closes we got to having a star that will almost do something amazing on a nightly basis.
JJ
January 26th, 2010
9:26 am
I really enjoy watching the Hawks play. Catch probably 65-70 games a year on the tube. But I haven’t been to a game in years (since Nique was in his prime). The reason? Simple priorities. I don’t know what it costs and I really don’t care. Between football, bball, and baseball, I pay anywhere from $4,000 to $5,000 to UGA every year and spend countless hours in Athens.
I simply don’t have the time or additional money to go to Hawks, Braves, or Falcons games on a regular basis. Supporting my alma mater is first on the list of discretionary items so while I really enjoy watching the Hawks, Braves, and Falcons and probably catch 90% of their respective games on TV, I just don’t get to go see them in person.
Plus, with a family, it’s kinda hard to go to that many UGA events and still make time for pro teams as well. The wife gets a little burnt out, ya know? I still consider myself a diehard fan of the teams. Just don’t get to see them in person.
Elvisinthehouse
January 26th, 2010
9:55 am
Dumb blog.
Brian in Athens
January 26th, 2010
11:44 am
Lack of star power may be a good thing. Granted it doesn’t happen often, Jordan never missed a championship series due to injury but if you take the best player off every team in the league do you think the Cavs beat the Hawks minus Lebron and JJ? Take Kobe off the Lakers or Howard off the Magic. I think the Hawks and Celtics have the best overall “teams”, the Celtics have missed Garnett for a lot of games the last two years. Unfortunately, we don’t get to choose that scenario, and they do have more starpower. However, find a way to shut down the star, or at least stop the 50 points games and make someone else beat you and I just don’t see Shaq being the go to guy. The Hawks have figured that out with D Wade and the Heat.
Playoffs?? Playoffs??
January 26th, 2010
12:29 pm
So I get my AJC from the driveway this morning and — SURPRISE — on the FP of the Sports section there’s yet ANOTHER story “trying to figure out WHY Philips isn’t full every night the Hawks play there.” At least I know I’m in ATL and reading the AJC…Next month it’ll be yet another story “trying to figure out WHY Philips isn’t full every night the Thrashers play there.” These are only “mysteries” to those with Press Credentials who have their tickets and expenses COMPED every time they show up at Philips…For everyone else it’s pretty simple:
____________NOW YOU KNOW____________ Mark Bradley —
Atlanta Sports Fans don’t “hate” the Hawks…Obviously. But aside from those season ticket holders who derive some portion of their very identity from being able to tell other fans that they aren’t “true Hawks fans” because they don’t have season tickets and they don’t unconditionally support the Hawks regardless of the caliber of their play or the maturity level displayed by some of its players, most everyone else knows this team is D-O-N-E. In fact, it was done BEFORE the season even started.
Casual fans are not “drawn” to follow a team whose leader has already said in a VERY PUBLIC WAY that he doesn’t even WANT to be here next year. WOW! Let’s put down our hard earned money to go see a team with a leader that doesn’t even want to be part of the team himself!! Clearly JJ is playing for a contract and, although he might indeed have the best season of his career, WHO CARES beyond those who spit venom in the general direction of anyone who dare say anything negative about the Hawks?!? THAT’S problem #1 Mr Bradley.
Problem #2 has already been covered quite well by others here. We’re in an economy that has 10% unemployment which is probably closer to 20% if the numbers were true. Since the Hawks & Thrashers have similarly priced tickets/expenses, allow me to show exactly what we got for our money when I took the wife and our 3 elem school age boys to Philips for a meeting between the Capitals & hometown Thrashers on Jan 9th:
Section 308
Row F
Seats 11-7
Type: Regular PriceTicket Price US $49.00 x 5
Convenience Charge US $7.80 x 5
SUBTOTAL US $284.00
Order Processing Fee US $3.65
Standard Mail No Charge
TOTAL CHARGES US $287.65
$287.65 for 300 level seats
$20 to park in “The Pit” (twice the normal chg because of Monster Jam at the Dome)
$60+ for an assortment of Cokes, Basic Hot Dogs & Popcorn for a family of 5
$15 for gasoline – driving to & from & sitting on the Connector for 1 HOUR because of Monster Jam
That’s almost $400 for ONE GAME at Philips!!! And because some IDIOT scheduled the game at the same time as Monster Jam, we missed most of the 1st period even though we left home 2 HOURS before game time to allow for icy roads. We also missed most of the 3rd period because it’s the ONLY ATL SPORTS EVENT we have ever left early. When the home team gets pummeled 8-1, there’s not much to cheer about.
In fact, aside from going to see the Thrashers beat up on the Lightning opening night, we’ve also gone to see them play: the Pens (Loss), the Caps again (Loss), the Stars (Loss)…Can hardly wait for the next 3 games I already have tickets to.
Yes, those are Thashers games, but it’s still Philips and the two teams are forever joined at the hip…Similar ticket prices, same venue, overpriced food that our dog wouldn’t eat, $300 for 300 level seats for 5, the team’s star player with one foot out the door, parking prices that feel like a mugging, bad traffic, you never know “which” team will show up when you roll the dice and buy tickets, etc.
When it’s all said and done, a ticket to a sporting event is nothing more than the purchase of an “EXPERIENCE”. ATL Sports Fans SHOULD BE APPLAUDED for putting down $400/game in order to put up with the kind of crap I laid out above. ATL Sports Professionals already make more $$$ in less than 1 season than any of us will see in our entire lifetimes — Yet, THEY WANT MORE!?!?
Kovalchuk wants THE MAXIMUM to stay here. JJ doesn’t even WANT to stay here. The Braves — “Playoffs??? Playoffs??? Don’t talk about Playoffs!” And as far as the Hawks Playoffs last year…
The FANS WERE THERE, it’s THE TEAM that failed to show up against LeBron & the Cavs. A complete and utterly embarrasing accordion show by the home team when it really counted. Did it look like they even CARED? Some did, some obviously didn’t and were quoted as being “ready for the off-season.” This Hawks team plays well when it wants to. It phones it in when it wants to.
I’m amazed as many people consistently show up at Hawks/Thrashers games given all of the above. It’s simply more “compelling” and easier on the family budget to watch it at home. At least you have a remote if they phone it in that night…Please Mr Bradley, no more stories about lame ATL Fans…Unless you’re going to start comping us to drive down to Philips and all that is Downtown ATL at night.
drmaryb
January 26th, 2010
1:26 pm
Hey Mark Bradley,
Keep up the great work! Great Blog on here! I usually do Sekou,. but he ain’t here Ne-more…MC is cool. But I am a Chiropractor who is fighting the Insurance companies and only “Lord Knows!” What is Health Care Reform? The economy is kicking our azzes out here in these mean streets…So , Sports and the HAWKS! @ The Highlight Factory! are my outlet to take a breather from finances!
Ne-way! Thanks for all your HARD work and CONTRIBUTIONS to the ATL! I LOVE YOU MAN…you are as ORIGINAL as “The VARSITY & COKE!” lol!
scott
January 26th, 2010
1:55 pm
I agree with the “astute” comment by Walker:
Walker: “ . . . but I don’t believe the Hawks are going to or should disrupt what they have to make such a deal. They are going to have to go the Detroit Piston share-the-ball route to a championship.”
My wife once told me that I was astute. But I thought she was referring to my intestinal capabilities following my consumption of Captain Ken’s Firehouse Beans.
Simple Answer
January 26th, 2010
2:05 pm
The reason attendance is down is simply the economy. I’ve been out of work for a year. If it were normal times I would def attend games. I use to attend all of ATL’s pro games including Falcon season tickets. I miss the good ole days.
Mike
January 26th, 2010
2:27 pm
Mark … I haven’t read all of the comments, so I’m sure this has been said. The Atlanta sports fan is simple. If we get an EXCITING superstar, the arena will sell out. Period. Atlanta is a flashy city. If Joe Johnson had Josh Smith’s personality, the Arena would sell out.
If it just so happened that the hawks allowed Joe’s contract to expire and used that money with a little more to sign DWade (who will also be a free agent), Guaranteed the Arena would sell out a week or two after he was signed.
It’s just who we are as a city. We need something highly tangible to make us fight traffic or ride marta when we have a perfectly good grill, ice cold cooler, and a flat screen at home.
Iceman
January 26th, 2010
2:43 pm
I live 90 miles away, otherwise I’d be there myself more often.
NickDiamond
January 26th, 2010
4:00 pm
The Hawks are continuing to win key games as their game in Houston last night was an awesome display of power, skill and speed. The Hawks havent won in Houston in over 10 years. Plus it was critical to get an important road win, with the brutal week continuing on against San Antonio, Boston and Orlando. The Hawks also seized the opportunity to gain ground last night on the Orlando Magic who also lost last night. The Hawks picked up a game in the standings last night and will finish the week with tough games. It was critical for the Hawks to start out well because the next 3 games will be tough. I think the Hawks can win all three games if they continue to play with high energy. Josh Smith is playing beyond an all-star level and Marvin Williams, Jamal Crawford and Al Horford are not far behind. Joe Johnson allways plays at a HOF level and the bench players have been nothing short of sensational.
JASon
January 26th, 2010
4:44 pm
Most of the people who actually live near downtown don’t seem to be native Atlantans, or have moved here since the Olympics. And lets face it, these venues are poorly operated in terms of getting people in and out. What do you expect from this city, that’s why we don’t get more Super Bowls
spud webb
January 26th, 2010
4:50 pm
I agree, that the hawks have a legitimate shot to get to the eastern conf. finals, & a slim shot to represent the east in the finals, but I’d have to place them tied with Orlando in 2nd. Even tho Orlando has handled us this year, I still feel that the Hawks would give them a good series, possibly winning it.
As far as attendance, I have bought 7 or 13 game packages for the past 4 years up until this year. With my wife being laid off, i cannot justify spending the extra money on hawks tickets, altho i would love to attend. I watch them faithfully on the teli….nice that most of their games are in HD now too!
AceDawg
January 26th, 2010
4:52 pm
I agree with the commute issue. My untested, unproven guess is that most other teams with higher attendance rates have either A) a large, dense urban population near the arena; B) a populated area smaller than Atlanta that doesn’t have the same traffic problems; and/or C) the teams don’t have all 4 major pro sports teams.
What else you gonna do in Utah but see the Jazz? Or the Blazers in Portland? And how could you NOT fill an arena somewhere like Madison Square garden when millions of people are in walking distance of the building at all times? And how hard could it be to fight through Oklahoma City traffic. Yeah, a winning tradition and holywood celebrities help you fill an LA arena too.
Traceman
January 26th, 2010
4:53 pm
It always cracks me up to hear people in this city make excuses for why they don’t support the local teams. The Hawks have the 6th cheapest average ticket price and the 7th cheapest Fan Cost Index of the 30 teams in the NBA. Take a look at the link below:
http://teammarketing.com.ismmedia.com/ISM3/std-content/repos/Top/Fan%20Cost%20Index/NBA/NBA_FCI_08-09.pdf
Those of you who choose to use your discretionary income for something other than going to Hawks’ games, that is certainly your perogative. That said, apparently, people in OTHER cities DO choose to use their discretionary income to go watch their teams play.
The economy, traffic, parking, crime, etc and any other excuses that ATLiens use for not going to games exist in every other city yet most of the teams in those cities enjoy significantly more support than the Hawks. This is true DESPITE the fact that it costs more to watch their teams play.
Those who say that teams in Atlanta need a superstar in order for fans to come to their games have hit the nail right on the head. The Hawks have assembled one of the best TEAMS in the NBA yet it is not enough. The team is filled with high character guys, they play hard and they are arguably the most athletic team in the NBA from top to bottom. If they had all of that AND LeBron, THEN the fans would come.
JASon
January 26th, 2010
5:30 pm
We native Atlantans are flattered that everyone is comparing us to other major economic centers of the U.S. Atlanta would not even be a major city if not for the ‘96 Olympic games bringing in millions of transplants. We were perfectly fine with our city before all of you people infiltrated it. I will enjoy my very good local sports teams at my own leisure, thank you very much. I will also enjoy listening to all of you transplants criticize us.
MannyT
January 26th, 2010
6:00 pm
Aside from the premium games (Celtics, Cavs, Lakers) that are likely to sell out without the naysayers, there are cheap ways to attend a Hawks (or Thrashers) game.
Check Stubhub for cheap tickets (even in the lower level.) There are also discounts on Chick-Fil-A family nights, Wednesday night discounts, and unlimited eats seats for those of you who think a sporting event should have a Coney Island Eat off in the stands.
The arena now has an unlimited soft drink for $5 and unlimited popcorn for $5.50 (i.e. free refills)
There are several lots where you can park for about $5 if no competing event at Ga Dome.
This doesn’t even factor in the eat cheaper before you get in the arena options that are as close as the CNN food court.
Attendance to Hawks games was poor, way before the economy went bad. Some hardcore fans will be there w/o all the excuses, but many will not. Even when the Hawks were really bad about 5 years back, there were a lot of empty seats when you could get an upper level season ticket for $199. Maybe there is a marketing need to appeal to the more casual fans.I’d try some kind of raffle giving away 100 lottery tickets each game for the Need something for nothing crowd.
Seems like most folks show up based on the opponent…so the Hawks need to have good opponents in the playoffs to draw good crowds.
ISOWE–in search of woody’s eyebrows
Frank
January 26th, 2010
6:06 pm
No Fans in Atlanta???
There are many Basketball Fans to fill a stadium but NOT in Atlanta…. The Force moved from Gwinnett to Phillipos and Attendance went down…No Kidding….
The Stadiums must be at the Perimeter…Remember…Less that 500k people live in Atlanta and 3.5 million outside of Atlanta City Limits and you still have to ask why we cannot sellout a sporting event….
Stop being stupid and build the Stadiums where we live and play!!!
Deano
January 26th, 2010
6:17 pm
I think the fact that the Hawks don’t have a legit superstar can be a good thing. They have several players that can get it done on the offensive end on any given night. And when the guys committ to playing defense, it looks as if they have 6 players on the floor at times. I have watched almost every game this year, and have been to 2 games at Phillips, and I hate to say it, but the Hawks get absolutely NOTHING from Marvin Williams. He no longer has a good jump shot, when he drives to the basket he looks very awkward, and he is a mediocre defender at best. Atlanta has to get more out of the small forward position. I don’t know what they could possibly get in a trade for him, but a little more offensive fire power would sure look good come playoff time.
JD
January 26th, 2010
6:25 pm
Too often, after an 18 mile freeway trip to a Hawks game, the time from the Williams St exit to Philips takes longer than the 18 miles on the freeway.
Why would Ted Turner succumb to the City pressure to build downtown and not make access a priority? Ask the same question of the Smith family and the Dome. Police officers stand around doing nothing as the traffic backs up in one direction while the traffic light is green for an empty cross street.
The trip out of town is the same as the trip into town. Longer from the Philips/Dome area to the interstate than the 18 miles home.
The location issue (downtown versus the Perimeter) is an access issue not, as one less than scholarly blogger offered, an issue of fear of the dreaded inner-city citizens. There was a time, 25 to 30 years ago, that leaving your car outside the Dome or Omni was just asking to have the windows blown out by a brick to allow a thief the chance to steal. This is no longer true, but the drive is painful enough.
Cost to attend, access and lack of “star power” are the major issues, at least IMHO.
Dikembe Fan
January 26th, 2010
6:28 pm
Three thoughts on the attendance:
1. In general, the Hawks don’t have a star that has “it”. Horford could be in a couple years.
2. Ticket prices are ridiculous. I would love to go to the games, but I don’t want to get a nosebleed and nor do I want to pay $75 for a ticket. I can just stay at home, enjoy a good meal and watch the game in hi-def for less $. If #1 is resolved, I would consider going to see the Hawks live, but I will still gripe at the ticket prices.
3. Who wants to pay that much to see Josh Smith gripe at the officials after EVERY SINGLE PLAY. Yes, you committed a foul. Or maybe you didn’t. But be a man like Horford, Bibby and JJ and get ready for the next possession.
Having said all this, I still love the Hawks and have been a loyal TV watcher for years. Can we trade Marvin for a true center so Al can be a true PF and average 20/10 a night?
MannyT
January 26th, 2010
6:43 pm
@Frank…a Perimeter location only makes it closer for folks in north Fulton. No better for Douglas, Rockdale, Clayton, Fayette, or Henry counties.
Besides, when they decide to build these arenas, all the other counties have the same opportunity to pitch incentives to the teams.
@JD–I would compare the star power o fthe current team to that of the Steve Smith era. Not better, just comparable. Nevertheless, I would suspect that attendance was stronger in the late 1990’s. For some folks, good access is taking that MARTA train that drops you right outside of the Philips Arena door.
Choice is all about prefrence…most folks just don’t prefer our NBA team.
ISOWE
Playoffs?? Playoffs??
January 26th, 2010
7:46 pm
Traceman is probably Director of Marketing for the Atlanta Spirit because he shows an absolutely amazing ability for NOT being able to grasp the #1 reason Philips rarely sells out. This is spoken JUST LIKE A MARKETING GUY who missed Econ 101 in college:
“It always cracks me up to hear people in this city make excuses for why they don’t support the local teams. The Hawks have the 6th cheapest average ticket price and the 7th cheapest Fan Cost Index of the 30 teams in the NBA. Take a look at the link below:
Those of you who choose to use your discretionary income for something other than going to Hawks’ games, that is certainly your perogative. That said, apparently, people in OTHER cities DO choose to use their discretionary income to go watch their teams play.”
In other words, I’m going to shove someone’s statistics IN YOUR FACE in an attempt to SHAME YOU into buying tickets that YOU CAN’T AFFORD so we “look like a respectable major city.” (LOL…And they wonder why Philips doesn’t sell out!?!) Dude, there’s something called SUPPLY & DEMAND that obviously takes precedence over your precious statistics that you use to show us how foolish we are for not flocking to Philips Arena 3 nights a week because of the compelling value of “the 6th cheapest average ticket price and the 7th cheapest Fan Cost Index of the 30 teams in the NBA.”
Most people CAN’T AFFORD taking the family to several Hawks, several Thrashers, several Falcons, several Braves and several UGA or GT games every year since ticket prices go up every year regardless of performance. Loyal Falcons Fans just got reamed AGAIN by Blank & Co. The reg season was hardly over and already season ticket INCREASES were going out. WTH?!? The team didn’t even go to the Playoffs! Some of these seats have now QUADRUPLED in price just since Blank bought the team!!
“It’s OK…’The Marketing Guy’ has sadistics saying we’re still one of the cheapest NFL ticket prices, so the fans will pay up…They always pay up…Don’t they?? I mean, we can still be way overpriced just as long as all the other teams are way overpriced too, right?”
And as for someone saying Wed night game discounts? You don’t have kids do you? They COULD GIVE AWAY WED NT TICKETS and you’d never see us there. Something about getting home after 11pm on a school night…
And STUBHUB? Am I the only guy who’s figured out that the Atlanta Spirit is DUMPING TICKETS on StubHub? They’re real easy to spot. They’re never PRIME seats…Only the freakin shi77iest seats in Philips Arena: Secs 303, 304, 317 & 318, normally near the top so you can sit in the worst seats and say, “well, I DID only pay $10 a piece so I guess I should be happy” and Philips looks fuller than it otherwise would. It’s stupid crap like screwing over season ticket holders like this that has them scratching their marketing heads when they can’t figure out WHY season ticket holders don’t renew…
And there are always PLENTY of alternatives to sporting events too. Plus, everyone with a double-wide now has a 50″ flat screen and 12-pack on ice…
It’s ALL about the money. It’s ALWAYS about the money. Everything else is secondary…
Boneyard Randy
January 26th, 2010
8:37 pm
I take issue with the fans that are at philips arena. Save for a few that will get out of their seats, most of the people there won’t even put there hands together…too busy texting and tryin’ to look cool. At least they’re in the seats though, so I digress. Agreed that weekday games should be at 7:30 and weekend games should be 8:30pm…probably an nba league decision and not a team decision. Love the Hawks and look forward to the future. Once the real estate market improves, the trend of more people moving ITP will continue and it will be easier to fill up the seats w/ locals without having to depend on suburbanites. 10 year plan anyway. J-Smoove w/ be a savvy vet at 33.
RA
January 26th, 2010
9:14 pm
For those that say that Atlanta is not a basketball town, I beg to differ. Let Kobe Bryant come into town, it’s a basketball town. Let Le Bron James come into town, basketball town. Begs the question, who do the fans come out to see? If you listen to those crowds durring the ebb and flow of a game against the Lakers or the Cavs, you wouldn’t think they were there to see the home team. At a very shaky best, the home crowd roots for both teams. Now, I’m not saying don’t come out for the Lakers or for the Cavs. For my money, that’s the best game in town, but the Atlanta fans, whether there are 5,000 or 20,000, need to be SOLIDLY behind the home team. That’s all I’m saying.
Truth-Serum
January 27th, 2010
11:02 am
Mark you are not as dumb as you make yourself out to be,-LOL
Joking aside you have really stepped your game up and I appreciate you. It seems like you are becoming more “pure” in your ability to sit on the fence and let the story tell itself.
Having said that… I disagree with your featured bloggers. Hawks are good and I’m rooting, but we won’t get past the second round without a legitimate center. Your bloggers clearly lack insight and a polished understanding of the game.
The Hawks strength is in youthful athleticism and back court precision. That allows us to run and gun which is how we are winning, running, and gunning. This philosophy has been hashed out repeatedly over history. The conclusion is emphatically and unequivocal. Run and gun doesn’t win in the later and championship rounds because it gets nullified by presses, walkups, traps, time clock management and half court sets that run in and out with a “legitimate center” patrolling the paint. That’s why the most learned GM’s and head coaches pursue an enforcer/stopper to manage the post when they reach the level of serious contender.
I agree, (as I’ve said last year and all of this year), the hawks are in range and are definitely doing the hunting. However the “hunted”,(Cleveland, Orlando and Boston) have the ability to play lights out in the post and force you to long range, low percentage shots.
Horford is a good power forward, (he’s no center!) and averages over a season, about 13 pts and 10 rebounds. Those are decent numbers but the problem is he isn’t stopping anybody. Don’t tell me about rebounds, that’s not the point. The point is that you shut down the lane and force the opposition off the post. The point is that you alter and block shots. Horford doesn’t have this ability and that’s why these tiny guards like Turner and Parker put on major performances against him/us.
The championship round will be a half court, bruising physical battle. He who controls the post will win, which is precisely why we won’t. Our center can’t stop anyone in the low post. I agree with ESPN and I agree with the TNT analysts who have both offered that the Hawks are 1-2 years away from a title and a player away.
That player is a center….
ZeussFarmer
January 27th, 2010
3:44 pm
The Hawks will get tested after the next 3 games. If the Hawks win all three, which they should THE HAWKS HAVE ARRIVED AS A MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIP THREAT TO WIN IT ALL. If the Hawks lose all 3 ballgames, then its the same ole Hawks again who get folks hyped up just to let them down AFTER the truth is revealed. At any rate, the HAWKS ARE MUCH IMPROVED, and I only see two teams in the NBA who still have the Hawks number: cleveland and Orlando. Thats it! Quite an imrprovement.
ChickenLittle
January 27th, 2010
3:54 pm
The Hawks have their best chance this year to win a title in 40 years. I hope the Hawks step up to the plate and take advantage of it. The Hawks should know by now that they are as good as anyone in the league. If they dont know it, I feel sorry for them.
GraveDigger
January 27th, 2010
5:09 pm
I will be convinced that the Hawks are finally an upper echelon team if they beat their next three opponents convincingly (say by double digits). Boston, San Antonio and Orlando. Clobber those three guys and you are an elite team. No doubt. Thank you Billy Knight for building such a powerhouse team!
hatfieldgeoff
February 9th, 2010
9:09 am
The Hawks are currently the 3rd best team in the conference, but I do not think they could beat either Cleveland or Orlando in a 7-game series. The Hawks are missing a piece (maybe, a center so Horford can move to forward and marvin can come off the bench, or perhaps a strong 3-point shooter, as Bibby has lost his touch). Beyond this year what they really need is for Josh Smith to improve his offensive game so he is a go-to guy in a half-court game. Not jump shots, but rather getting passes in the paint and being about to hit a turnaround from 8 to 10 feet or make a move and drop in a bank shot over a defender. He currently doesn’t have the touch for these type of shots. Sometimes he shows some of these moves and finishes but he can’t do it consistenly enough to make him a threat, in fact against Orlando and Cleveland, going to Josh hurts our chances, particularly late. Horford’s offense is improving but he needs to develop into even more of a threat. Finally, Joe Johnson while a good scorer has to start passing the ball more during his one-on-one sessions. Just clearing out for Joe doesn’t always work and it seems to make the rest of the team stagnant. If Joe is going to demand attention then he has to get the ball to his teammates for easy baskets. That is how great players make others better. Winning and running will sell tickets but in this economy spending $100 bucks to go to a baskeball game has got to be something the average fan cuts out of his budget.
lexluther
February 11th, 2010
10:42 pm
Great first half of the season for Hawks. It was quite evident what value Jamal Crawford has for this team in his absenses against the Heat. Second unit was awful. Also, all this talk about Josh (J-Smoove) getting snub as a all star needs to DIE. A true all star makes free throws or play within his game. The second half of the season Josh needs to stop all that whinning and drive the ball to the basket. Oh also, make the shot after contact because we all know he’s going to miss the free throws.