The Braves: Serious about saving $$$, less so about winning

First?

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Damn!

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Mark…Is Rico Brogna available?

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first

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Cheap bastards . . .

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Excellent and frank column. Good points made.
Let’s now forget Bobby Cox returning….that already makes 2010 club weaker than 2009 when senile has-been cost them many more games than he won…

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At least I can be excited by being first. I’m totally bummed by every move Wren has made this offseason. If I’m going to feel this bad, I should just become a Pirates fan.

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Fed Up- Give us a few years. We will be the Pirates.

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Hey moron: Trades are not made to benefit both sides unless you’re teaching a college course in socialism.
Trades are made TO MAKE YOUR TEAM better. This isn’t choosing up sides in the school yard.

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I fully agree. Frank will have to go along way into maybe making more moves for this to even be worth it.

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Someone with the name “Toots” telling others to grow up.

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Mark,

I think Wren miscalculated the market for Lowe, and now Lowe’s feelings are hurt. I’m sure Chipper’s feelings will be hurt too, because he was a big fan of Vazquez, both on the field and off (he talked about how Vazquez helped mentor Jair). Wren will have some making up to do.

Sometime ago, Bobby Cox said if they trade Vazquez, they better get a whole lot in return. And they didnt.

However, what’s the point of freeing up salary if you’re not going to use it? As DOB speculated, maybe this is a precursor to another move. As a result, I will reserve judgment on this deal, because I will be stunned if Wren doesnt make a big move for a 1B.

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Only time will tell if this is a solid trade. To early to judge the long term benefits or to conclude that Lowe want bounce back in 2010 and Vazquez have a sub-par year. Granted the Braves need more offense and maybe Heyward is the answer but they still have plenty of pitching depth to make them wildcard contenders.

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Wren is a disaster….but if you think the almight “savior” Schuerholz doesn’t know if advance of these deals and has sign off…you’re just stroking yourself.
Schuerholz saw this nightmare environment coming a few years ago, bumped himself up to a political position and installed his hand picked patsy Wren to take the heat for all of this disaster.
So save some of your holier than thou scorn for your butt-buddy John “i can do no wrong” Scheurholz. He is as much of the problem as is Wren. Count on it.

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If we are going to receive a cut rate product, then cut the ticket prices to reflect that situation. The Braves aren’t trying to win at the major league level.

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Actually, I think this was a good move for the Braves. If you check Vasquez’s records, he’ll have a so-so year followed by a good year followed by another so-so year. Always one with huge potential; however, short on long-term accomplishments. Throws a lot of pitches and eats a lot of innings, but the won/loss differential is not equal to the salary. I like the prospects the Braves are getting…Melky will be more consistent in the field and at bat, and who knows, just might surprise some fans now that he’s out of NY. Now, if we could just unload Lowe. Anyway, just my opinion.

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This is a ridiculous article to write until the offseason is over. The team as it stands right now is not the same team that will open the 2010 season! Are you really too blind to see that? Wren has said all along that his plan is to improve the offense. Your quote from him explicitly says he is not done yet. Do you not believe him?

Will you retract this article of the money or prospects gotten in this deal are used to acquire the power hitter whom you seek?

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“Patience is a virtue.”

Yes. Once Tommy Hanson and Jair Jurjjens reach full potential we will no longer be able to sign them either. In essence, if you’re a Brave, you can be good but not TOO good.

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Mark, you are assuming Vazquez will duplicate in 2010 what he did in 2009. In the 5 seasons before he came to Atlanta, Vazquez only had 1 season with an ERA below 4.42.

And it wasn’t like this was a straight up deal – Braves got $9mil plus legit prospects. What does it take to trade up these days? Money and prospects. Braves just got both. Chill out and see what happens next.

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Maybe this is why the Braves are asking season ticket holders to pay early this year. They want dollars committed by the fans before they see the 2010 product. Unless all this action has been to pave the way for signing a big hitter at 1B I won’t be buying tickets for next year – so something needs to happen in the next 3 weeks as I am surely not alone in being unwilling to pay for another season of futility. And here’s another thing – how come any team trading to the Braves seems to be working from a position of strength while trades from the Braves are always on an apparently weak basis? Are the Braves seen as a soft touch by other GMs?

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Melky Cabrera: The latest in a serious of cost-cutting imports. (AJC photo by Jason Getz)

We was shocked to see a typo in a Mark Bradley post. That is as unheard of as trading a top pitcher for a corner outfielder with no pop. We always had pop when we was playing ball and the way Bobby Cox manages they won’t win without some pop. 3-run pop.

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Sorry about the double post…the first didn’t show up til like 10 minutes after I posted it.

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GREAT job, Mark Bradly!

That’s what I call “telling it like it is!!”

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I totally agree with you about this being a cost cutting type move, but the Braves didn’t have to reup with Hudson. They could have let him walk and kept Vazquez. I don’t understand why we would want Cabrera, more young talent would have been preferable than adding another loser outfielder.

They gave up the #3 prospect in their system for a one year rental, so we didn’t exactly get screwed. But your right, this type of trade show the fans in Atlanta that management is much more concerned with the bottom line than winning. Can you blame them though, they are run by a corporation. They have a bottom line and they are supposed to make money for their investors; not appease the fans desire for a metal trophy.

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Mark, are you trying to say that between Dunn, Vizcaino, Medlen, Freeman, either Delgado, Rohrbough, Cody Johnson, Adam Milligan, the pitching staff for Danville last year that we have nothing of value to trade? If we get a return of an Adrian Gonzalez or similar statured player that a package of 4 of those guys wouldn’t be enough to gte something else done. The cupboards just got a little fuller today for a trade either now or all the way until a few years from now after some of these guys develop more.

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Don’t worry Mark, we are going to trade Matt Diaz for Albert Pujols. The Yankees can do it. So can we.

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Well, Vizcaino (sp?)was rated 3rd best in Yankees organization recently by Baseball America. Wren also has Medlen, Melky, Schafer, along with pitching depth in the minors. Would he/could he make a run at Adrian Gonzales?

I am trying very hard to be patient and give Wren the benefit of the doubt. After all, this is Bobby’s last year, so I cant imagine Wren not doing all he can to send Bobby out a winner.

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What a joke, we need Ted to buy back the braves… to think we used to be champs and get the pick of free agents…reminds me of my youth when the braves were 20 games out by the allstar break.
We had a chance to have a good team this year if the tight wads would resign Laroach and quit trading quality players for part time chumps.

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Interested to see what Chipper says, since he’s usually not afraid to speak his mind, and since he’s said 2010 might be his last season if it’s not a good one.

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Chipper’s probably in Macon anyway, drowning his sorrows at Whiskey River like he did in the old days.

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I think there’s probably a high correlation between people typing ‘first!’ on a blog with living in their mom’s basement. Just a hunch.

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We was thinking Chipper might say something like this . . . “uh, Melky, huh? and we gave up WHO?”

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Nice article Mark. I really think that Wren is over matched when it comes to his pears. The whole arbitratin mess with Soriano and Gonzo has made me wonder if he knows what he is doing. Hopefully he can pull something else off to help the club but this trade alone is not the answer.

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MB, did you consider that the upcoming move could be something like Schafer, Vizcaino, and Dunn for a good young hitter from another team? I think you are being too reactionary, like many of the other fans on this board.

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Everyone freaking out because they think we got jobbed are idiots. This is only the first move. We couldnt trade lowe because no one wanted him. We overpaid for him last year, but we had too. He won 15 games last year. Where would we have been without him. Remember Hudson only came back for the last month. We will make another move. If you are freaking out now, then you really have no idea what you’re talking about. This includes you Bradley. You sound like an uninformed fan. I really can’t believe that you wrote this column.

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saywhat? possibly my favorite sports movie of all time. Either that or Hoosiers

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Andrew- Did you really just ask where we would have been without Lowe last year?

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Ask the Tigers if Wren is overmatched. Ask the Cubs. And how did he mess up the Soriano situation? He actually got something for him rather than let him go for nothing – which was the only other option.

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This reminds me of fantasy baseball…where you accidentally hit the “Accept Trade” button instead of the “Decline Trade” button.

It also reminds me of fantasy baseball because Frank Wren lives in a fantasy about baseball.

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Andrew, that’s the main thing I’m disappointed about with the column. It sounds like an bitter fan sounding off instead of a journalist who should take the time to think through the details and establish the context of the trade. I’m not going to call anyone an idiot because their opinion is different from mine, but I would expect a journalist like Mr. Bradley to understand this trade on a deeper level.

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Andrew…of course we didn’t get jobbed. We got a 4th outfielder and a Low A pitcher for a pitcher that finished top 5 in the Cy Young race. Whatever gave you the idea we got jobbed?

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would your opinion change if they take the Vazquez money and put it toward signing Holliday or Bay?

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Baba O’Riley (one of my favorite Who songs as well), Hoosiers is great. I think that speech fits here and the people thinking people are over reaching on this are killing me… this is vintage mediocre Braves , Falcons, Hawks,, 60’s , 70’s, 80’s,,,, yes abracadabra Frank Wren will sign ,,, NO ONE,,,, he IS MR HANEY (no offense to Pat Buttram, since HE was an actor, Frank is a for real junk peddler)

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Only logical scenario is this: Wren comitting a violent crime in the near future (today he’s guilty of fraud imitating a MLB general manager) and he wants this trade on the record so his public defender can claim “insanity” to the court…

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from Josh Levitt at bleacherreport:
“While this trade does not give the Braves the power bat they were looking for, it does free them of the $11 million owed to Vazquez this season and allows them to become players on the free agent market should they choose too.

It remains to be seen if they will be able to pursue Matt Holliday or Jason Bay, but given how poorly both of their markets have developed, the Braves would seem to have a good chance to land either player, especially Bay. At the very least, the Braves should have the funds to re-sign Adam LaRoche or go after Dan Uggla.

It’s also important to note that the Braves did not just get rid of Vazquez’s contract, but also got more in return than I thought. Melky Cabrera should be a very useful fourth outfielder/platoon partner for the Braves who can hit for some power and play solid defense.

In addition, Cabrera is not projected to be a free agent until after the 2012 season, which is yet another plus for the Braves.

Also, Mike Dunn could be a realistic option for the Braves bullpen this season, and let me tell you this, I watched Arodys Vizcaino pitch several times for the Staten Island Yankees last season, and that dude has phenomenal stuff. Sure, he is still a ways away from the majors, but the raw talent is certainly there.”

i have to agree with him…i know it’s not the big name bat we were looking for in a trade for Vazquez…but we are sure to get someone else very soon. and Vizcaino is a stud…no doubt about it. we’ll be raving about him pretty darn soon.
i was initially pissed about this trade, but if u take time to consider it, it’s a decent trade…on the hopes that Wren will be able to grab that big bat (at the least, a Nady/Uggla/Byrd, and possibly a Bay/Gonzalez).
give it a few more days guys…think Wren knows what he’s doing on this one.

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You just thoroughly undressed and spanked Frank Wren and Liberty Media, Mark. Thank you. It needed to be done in the most withering way possible and you gave it to them with both barrels. Good. They deserve it. Heck, I think God may consider this trade a damnable offense.

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We will get ONE of Laroche, Nady, Byrd, or Derosa. No, that’s not enough.

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Seriously, who cares if you’re first, or third, or fifth to make your comment. Most of you are a bunch of crybabies that starting wathcing the Braves in 2004.

Bradley, go cover the Hawks!

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Seriously Baba?

Who would have pitched for us without Lowe. He won 15 games. I realize they weren’t pretty. Hanson wasn’t up yet, so thats 2 starting spots open without lowe in the rotation. And spare me on the “he should have brought Hanson up earlier.” While I agree that he should have started the season with the big club, maybe the braves did it right by allowing him to pitch in the minors a little longer. Remember Jordan Shafer. And you can’t judge this trade until after we make a few more moves. If we don’t sign a hitter, then by all means, you have the right to criticize Wren, but until then, you don’t. Just about every move he has made has worked out well for us.

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That trade stinks! If people would stop buying the tickets and put a financial hurt on the organization then maybe someone like Sir Arthur might buy the franchise for a steal. The current owners are not out to win but just use this team as a tax write off. THEY WONT GET MY MONEY TO WATCH SUBPAR BASEBALL! Bobby Cox diserves better.

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With Wren at GM, can we look forward to remnants of the 80’s when Ted Simmons and the rest of the “Bomb Squad” planted a garden by the Braves bullpen in AFC stadium?

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Mark, your still an idiot. I want you to write on this article when the NY media is ripping Vasquez because he still can’t pitch in NYC and he still can’t produce back to back high caliber seasons. You Probably thought trading Renteria for a couple of prospects was a bad move too, Wren has made good moves in the past. This may not be a good one, but we didn’t have a whole lot of leverage. Its not like Texas was offering up Nelson Cruz anytime soon

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Yankees have just clinched a repeat before spring training and we now become one of their farm teams.

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MB – i think u do…the “off-chance” is actually very likely to happen…and the only way it was going to happen is if we freed up some money (in the amount of around 8.5 million) by trading Vazquez (since no one bit at Lowe). and let’s be honest, we wouldnt have been able to keep Vazquez past this next season anyways…so at least we got something decent for him now…and gave us a good chance to bolster our offense.

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I predict the Braves will finish so far out of first they will end up in the West!!

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Mark, my response would be that I don’t think Wren would have made the deal if he wasn’t confident it would help our mission to improve the offense. Take that however you want it.

I don’t want to get fans’ hopes up, but a package of Schafer, Medlen, Freeman, and Vizcaino would, IMO, be attractive to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez, and without giving up Heyward or Hanson. And there is probably some name out there no one has even mentioned that we are looking into.

All I’m saying is…the offseason isn’t over. The column is premature.

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Andrew- Without Lowe, we MAY have dropped to 4th place instead of 3rd whoop-ti-damn-doo. With the amount of run support he was given, we may have finished 2nd place WITHOUT him.

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Bradley, you’re unbelievable!!!!

I’m pretty sure that Wren has some moves already in the works while he made this trade. I cannot believe how uniformed you sound right now. You sound like my buddy AK47, the producer of Mayhem in the AM right now. Just freaking out without seeing the big picture. You and AK47, two idiots.

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This just in,, Wren traded Hansen and Jurrgens… for THREE big bats… so take that negative people.. and they are those really big 33 inch bats like the ones Chipper uses. so that is THREE for TWO… way to go Frank.. you are a miracle worker

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Oy! Do you even know what kind of depth we have in the system Mark? Do your homework. Between what’s left on the market (200+ players at last check) and what is always possible on the trade market, how can you already write this post season and this move in particular off as a failure?

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So who are the likely starters next year?

Lowe(15-18 wins)
Hudson(15-18 wins)
Hanson(15-18 wins)
Jurrjens(15-18 wins)

Who is the 5th starter?

Surely, to goodness Wren is going to make another move and get some more RBI’s to support these guys

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Please explain to me your math baba….

He won 15 games. So if someone else had pitched, we would have stuck another pitcher in and he would have won 20 games?

I’m not defending lowe, he didnt pitch well. But he still won 15 games, no matter how you look at it. I’m not happy about trading vazques, but if it means trading vazquez and getting a hitter in return (im talking about the hitter we will sign, not melky) then i’m alright with it.

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We have PLENTY of pieces left for a major trade, and enough money to sign Roche or Nady as well. Stop freaking out, everyone. Wren has an ace up his sleeve; he’s no fool.

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Your still an idiot Mark. Vasquez will probably do what he usually does and not have back to back good seasons, and everyone will be saying how Wren sold high on Vasquez instead of selling low on Lowe, who will more than likely be much better next year. You will be wrong no matter what, because that’s what you do best

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DawginLex: Kawakami (12-14 wins) and/or Medlin (10-12 wins).

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I’m ready to fight the next fool who bashes Martin Prado!

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Somebody with real money who’s really interested in baseball needs to buy this team. Ever since this team was sold off to Liberty media it has continously gone down hill because the Braves can’t keep good players once they get them due to lack of funds. It’s pathetic and sad at the same time.

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umm, our 5th starter is Kawakami (and he pitched darn well for his 1st yr here…and received one of the lowest run supports in the league)

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thanks grinch. I had a brain lapse about Medlin and for some reason, I thought Kawakami was gone.

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bvillebaron I agree….”If you want to criticize someone about the Braves’ interest in saving money, place the blame squarely where it belongs: Liberty Media, not Frank Wren.”,,, but even with that Javy was not the one to be let go,,, Hudson may come back stronger but at the time I would have let him go and kept Javy,,, but money gets the big talent and KEEPS the big talent,, and Liberty is NOT the answer, They ARE the problem

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I hope someone whispers in Frankie’s ear how big he stepped in it with the fans. He won’t care, but he should know how much he’s despised. Maybe it’ll light a fire to make an actual beneficial move.

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I don’t care about other deals, future or otherwise. This wasn’t announced as a 3-way or anything of the sort. Standing on its own merits, or lack thereof, it is clearly an inequitable trade. Yeah they save some salary but the direct result will be less people through the turnstiles, so where’s the upside?

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I am amazed that Marlon Byrd is even being considered as a solution to the power in the outfield. Marlon Byrd? Seriously? Same goes for Xavier Nady…mediocre at best. I would try to package Shafer, Medlen, Freddie Freeman and whatever else it would take to get Adrian Gonzales. That is the big bat the Braves need…Marlon Byrd?

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Oldfart- If you look that the trade that way, then you’re just being ignorant. Obviously this trade doesn’t make us better. This trade was done to help out future deals and signings. So in effect, we traded vazquez for melky and whomever we sign with that money.

Bradley and old far

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Viscaino indeed sounds like a very good prospect, but I think some of you are hyping him so much are missing the point of why some of us are so upset about this trade.

The Braves won 86 games last year and were 52-36 after June 27th. Before today, there was every reason to believe 2010 could be the year the Braves got back to the playoffs. I don’t know about you guys, but after four years being out of the money I am STARVED to see postseason baseball in Atlanta again. I woke up this morning thinking that was a realistic possibility next year. Now I’m not so sure.

Maybe this trade makes us better in the long run. That’s great. No doubt the Braves should have a very bright future with their loaded farm systems and some of the youngsters already on their major league roster. But what I’m feeling, and what I think a lot of other Braves fans are feeling today, is that moves like this mean we’re going to have to wait even longer to being able to compete for championships again, and we’re tired of waiting.

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Mark if Part 2 turns out something like that everyone would be happy and Frank would have worked a miracle,,, but its because of Liberty Media he has to do it,, lets face it,, Time Warner (post Ted) to Liberty took the Braves from dominance to middle of the road and it IS all about money,, can’t sign talent anymore or can’t keep it,, for lack of serious money,,, so the Braves fans need to accept middle of the road unless someone like Arthur Blank steps up to save the fans and he has his hands full turning around the Falcons,, but at least he has and will spend CASH! CASH IS KING

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Jeff Walker, Brian, and Andrew…
couldnt agree with u guys more. thank you – for being sane.

MB and the majority of u guys out there – seriously relax and straighten out those mental wedgies ya’ll have give yourself. Wren is still out to get a big bat. it will happen. understand the intricacies of baseball: the minimal leverage we had, Vazquez’s contract situation after next year, our need for Offense, the tremendous amount of Talent that is coming up very soon (Heyward, Freeman, etc), the payroll flexibility (or lack thereof we have, thanks To Liberty), and on and on and on. RELAX.

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Lowe may very well have a better yr then Javy in 2010, but the Braves are worse because Melky will be starting in the outfield not someone with power we all assumed. Wren did say he was a “perfect fit”.

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this is a desperate, naked salary dump. if wren doesn’t pull a rabbit out of his @$$, he won’t save same.

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Beyond the many other points of why Mark Bradley is an idiot and why this is not the worst trade in history…

As stated by Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus “Any headline on this trade that does not mention Arodys Vizcaino is totally missing the point.”

Goldstein’s comments just further add to the point that Bradley is a narrow minded, negative, idiot…

Keith Law of ESPN has to say…”The key player in this trade for Atlanta is Arodys Vizcaino, who becomes one of the top five prospects in the Braves’ system and gives them a trio of potential No. 1 or No. 2 starters in the low minors with Julio Teheran and Randall Delgado.”

These are comments from professionals that focus solely and only on Baseball. Bradley has trouble remembering the distance between the pitchers mound and home plate.

This is a great article for the fact that it got hunderds of people commenting…most are stupid comments…but it worked.

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ArkyTech:

Hey man, don’t let facts Like (1) Hudson always has been a better pitcher than Vazquez and Cabrera is a a better player than Frenchy; (2) Wren still has perhaps as much as $20M to spend and (3) added by all accounts a prime pitching prospect (one source says the Braves return for Vazquez was better than the Phils’ return for Lee) get in the way of knee jerk blasting of Wren, huh?

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Headline in NY papers tomorrow: World Series Champion Yankees get better and add the Atlanta Braves to their farm system.

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Mark: You have finally seen the light; that is, that Wren is an idiot and no match for the guys on the other side of the table. If I was negotiating a deal, I’d want Wren on the other side. Even so, I didn’t think he was dumb enough to let Vasquez go; and worse, get nothing in return (another weak hitting outfielder and two promises)…..Going back to the Furcal fiasco (and many since then), he have been amazingly incompetent. He actually thinks he pulled off a great deal here. It has been sad to watch this once proud franchise sink to the bottom like this—and at this rate–if the Braves don’t get better leadership soon, they will sink to the bottom in 2-3 years. Wren doesn’t get all the blame—Liberty Media/corporate ownership is bad and JS should have fired Wren last year.

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Mr. Bradley, is there extra credit for calling each other an idiot? It does seem to be the preamble of this blog. Was just asking.

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Folks, no one is arguing whether or not Vasquez will be a winner next year. Personally, I like the guy a lot… he reminds me of Smoltz in his pitching style… Smoltz was never a great ERA pitcher but you just loved his moxie. Having said that, Mark is right on in the fact that with any commodity, you buy low and sell high. In this case, it seems we bought low and sold low. Yes we saved payroll. Yes we sent an inconsistent pitcher along the way…. but where is the sell value. The best organizations realize when a player has past his prime and ability to contribute significantly to an organization. Then they ship the player away. Yes there is a lot of pining for the good ole years… but hey, take a look at my two favorite Braves…. Murph and Smoltz… both were shipped away… both had mediocre careers after leaving… was there the heart strings of sending them away being plucked? yes but it had to happen. Therefore, Mark is right in the fact that we did not get fair trade value and that stinks as bad as just letting someone walk.

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This will be the first sports headline in a while about somebody getting screwed and Tiger’s not mentioned.

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Skeezix:

Yeah, Fooky Furcal had a much better year than Yunel Escobar last season, right?

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Arky- because Johnny Damon is a defensive liability.

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Dumb and Dumbest running the Braves no wonder the sports talk shows up in New York making fun of us … another soso 2010 ,im saving my money for Falcons season tickets ….

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Its a good trade considering it clears about 10 million to sign a left fielder (Nady, or DeRosa most likely) then put McClouth in center & Melky in right & move Diaz to first? You still have 4 quality starters, Diaz’s bat in the lineup full time & you add Melky a switch hitter & a new righty bat in left, what do you think MB?? Sounds good to me, do you think Diaz can handle playing first, I know he has in the past?

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Jackson:

Smoltz was never an ERA guy? His career ERA is 3.33.

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Arky- pretty sure the Yanks have Tex and ARod, etc. to make up for Melky’s shortcomings offensively. We don’t.

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Mark – I like your articles, but your last comment has me wondering. How often do people call you idiot to your face?

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Not first … and don’t care!

I don’t think you can judge offseason moves until the mid-season. Who would have guessed that Pedro Martinez would have contributed as much as he did to the Phillies down the stretch last year?

Trading a pitcher has always been about payroll flexibility. Wren and others have said repeatedly that they didn’t expect to get the “power-hitting, run producer” through a trade. They couldn’t sign the hitter they want until they free up some payroll.

Obviously, Cabrera isn’t the answer. Maybe it’s a major power-hitting first basemen for a couple of years until Freddie Freeman is ready or a power-hitting corner outfielder until Jason Heyward is ready. Maybe they have decided that Heyward will be ready Opening Day. Either way, you can’t assume this move is the last move.

If Opening Day was December 23rd, I would share your concern. Given that Opening Day is almost four months away, I’ll reserve my angst.

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friends, this all about money, but not in the way we are discussing. this is the trade that allows us to keep Jason Heyward in the minors until June so he is not eligible for arbitration as a super 2 after two seasons. The money we have saved will go to a first baseman, hopefully one that can hit fourth and is right handed. But Melky Cabrera will be our opening day left fielder, if only because of the arbitration issue.

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OK…first completely off the wall…how good can you really EVER BE with a name like “MELKY”…
next…unbelieveably STUPID!!!….I don’t care HOW much pitching we have…JV “follows a good year w/a bad one…” are you nuts???!!!….we HAD HIM ONE YEAR!!!…and he’s going into his F/A year…you’re tellin’ me he’s gonna “tank” in the year he stands to “land the big one”??…nnnnaaaaahhhh….he’ll be great (unless injured)…BET ON IT! Let’s see how “the Melk” matches up to NL pitching and more a few more “major league” parks…Last yr big talk about beating people w/”singles and doubles” (”gappers”) hitters….didn’t work…got Roche halfway thru season to add “pop”…it really helped and we still fall short…”Frenchy” was a nice guy, “head case”, “too much pressure”…we get a perennial .260 hitter then don’t “arbit” Roche…I think MB got it RIGHT…CHEAP!!!

“YAKS” are “yukking it up” in their sleeves RIGHT NOW!!!…can you say, “SUCKER PUNCH”?

“perfect fit”…?…FOR WHOM…NOT THE FANS….sounds like “Obamacare” to me…vast majority say it “stinks” and the “politocs” are “singing the praises”…I’m reeealllly having trouble seeing the “BIG PICTURE” here….best I can tell… 6 or 7 “starters a “set-up man” and a “has-been closer” hanging on by his ulnar…and outside of “the chipster”, “Mac” and “Yuni”, a bunch of .240 – .275 AAA prospects…that AIN’T a ML roster….we could’ve waited to see what teams lost a pitcher to injury in spring training and then be ready for a deal when we could’ve manuvered from a position of strength…by the way…anybody looked recently at the pitching bodies we’ve lost to injury ourselves over the past 2-3 seasons…ANOHTER WOW…I think FW is making a LOT OF ASSUMPTIONS and you wha they say about “assumptions”…”they make an — out of you and me”…let’s see just how much of an — the “Yaks” make FW look after this!!! I’m out!

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Oh, how sweet.

Frank Wren bought the Yankees 2010 rings for Christmas.

What a douchebag move to dump salary after Lowe couldn’t keep his trap shut.

The very least we should have gotten was a 25hr/90rbi guy back for Javy.

Screw 2012. The future is now.

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What’s the big deal over a name? We can discuss the merits of the trade and Cabrera’ statistics without maligning his name. We’re showing our cultural ignorance again. No need to remove all doubt. Welcome to the South Mr. Cabrera!

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I’m outraged. Who started this money ball crap? Why don’t the Braves just play our stud minor league outfielder and first baseman and live with the results? Wouldn’t that be the best money saving method? Anybody miss Chipper being quoted all the time about him “carrying the team?”

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Could we trade Wren? For perhaps, the Chicago Cubs waterboy?

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Great move for Libery Media and all the corporate Brave employees. Bad for the fans…as usual. Libery Media wants just enough invested to compete for the wildcard to keep attendance numbers up most of the year….. low turnout weekdays and sellouts weekends. Freeing up money….more like freeing up wins.

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Is the rotation worse? Depends on which Vazquez we would get this year. We don’t know! Based on the 5 guys we have, he may have the worse season of them all (look at his track record!). The outfield is better, not substantially.

But is substantial payroll freed up to make more moves? Is the farm more stocked than it was before this trade?

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Welcome to the dark side Bradley. Well said.

I know firmly believe that the vast majority of the Braves fan base is finally starting to figure what the Orioles knew years ago….. that Frank Wren is simply incompetent.

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We tried the Wren for waterboy trade but the Cubs wanted more.

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Dear Braves Nation:
It doesn’t take a Ph.D to figure this one out. The worst trade period. I am glad that Mark Bradley
does not suck up to the Braves Organization, like Mr. College Football does to Czar Mike Silve.

Vazquez is a gamer. Had a lot of spirit.

Taking into account all my Ph. D credentials, my final judgment on this one is that it sucks ass.

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Wren couldn’t pimp on a troop train. What a hopeless loser. Wren has gotten worked in every trade he has made as Braves GM.

If he got MC for Soriano it would be one thing – but for your trump card?? If your trump card is held by someone who can’t play cards, you have no trump card.

What was the story with the dumping of Soriano? Was someone holding Wren’s family hostage-threatening to do them harm if he couldn’t make a deal within 24 hours of arbitration acceptance?

We are still suffering for Wren’s failures from last year. He wants to make something (anything) happen quickly. Please someone; throw Wren’s cell phone in the river. No activity would be better then this embarrassment.

Wren is showing us how he and his ego became despised in Baltimore. He is, simply put, terrible at his job.

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Mark – I don’t see how this is a bad trade. The Braves have 6 starters and needed to trade one. When your payroll is set at “only” $95 million (still upper half in the majors, good considering our bottom half attendance), you need to make moves like that.

It’s not like it was Vazquez for Melky straight up. We lose one year of a great pitcher and gain at least 5 years of a potentially great pitcher. Someone had to go, and Wren was able to get a piece for the future.

And we still have, oh….100 days left in the offseason. Hopefully he can still get us a big bat. But I won’t hold my breath.

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1/ Eyeswideshut…first of all, why bring your political views into this? But…

2. When polled on it, more than 60% of Americans WANTED a “public option” health-care system; not the hobbled, maligned GOP and Conserva-Dem watered down insurance company “booster” bill.

3. I happen to think this trade will work out, in the long run; Mr. Bradley, the Braves came into the off-season with a pitching SURPLUS and a position-player DEFICIT. Now we’ve addressed an outfield depth issue AND freed up nearly $10 million to pickup a power-hitting 1B/OF.

It’s not as if the Braves didn’t TRY to deal Lowe (who by the way makes MORE money than Vasquez) or Kawakami; they just COULDN’T. So for those who say the Braves are more concerned about money, doesn’t this sort of blow that theory out of the water? They KEPT the more expensive pitcher…

Javier was GREAT last year, and I was among those who DIDN’T wanna see him traded, but I’m also aware he’s always been an up-down guy, from season-to-season and that Derek Lowe’s still a quality pitcher.

So I think it’d be wiser to write this column/blog if this were the Braves’ roster at spring training – or even better – on opening day, than, as MB pointed out, before Santa’s arrival.

Let’s see what else there is to come…

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Wren’s bad ideas are still on the team for years. His best idea is gone.
Have fun paying Lowe’s and Karakami’s salaries. I am not going to do so myself.

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Anyone who defends this trade is a moron and obviously doesn’t follow baseball. This was a straight salary dump by a team that can’t spend money with the big boys. Mark, you couldn’t be any more dead on with this one. The Braves talk a good game, but when it comes down to it the don’t follow up.

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So what did Wren’s advertisement for Vazquez look like:

Precious commodity available.
This is the missing piece to anyone’s championship puzzle. He was fourth in the NL Cy Young voting last year without ANY run support. At $11.5 he is unquestionably the best value of the offseason and the Braves are the only team in the universe willing to trade an ace starting pitcher.

In return, we’d like an all-star outfielder with a big bat-or-a future franchise-player prospect.

Of course, if you’d rather not offer a scrap of value, we’ll gladly take Melky Cabrera or whatever other crappy player you have laying around.

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The Braves, today, became what every other major league team is, the farm system of the New York Yankees, getting in line with the likes of the Kansas City Royals to sign, develop, and then trade talent to teams who can afford them. Start enjoying the right of passage to the Yankees, Braves fans. What a joke BASEBALL has become. No longer will one of my dollar bills be paid to support it.

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Same angst last off-season, then Wren brought in Lowe, KK and Vaz and the tunes changed. He’ll bring in a nice to very nice bat and Heyward will come up.

things arn’t looking so bad.

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We keep an unhappy Derek Lowe, and trade Vasquez, who stated he loved it here, and playing for Cox. This rivals the trade for Texiera. We have to get an owner who wants this team to win. We are a tax write off to Liberty Media. Please let an owner , whose face we can see at the game, buy this team, and give us a chance financially. We just traded our most reliable arm last year for sub par outfielder. This has been our trouble since the AOL-Time Warner deal.

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I like Cabrera and think he will be a very good outfielder. He is young and improving. However, I still would not have made this deal. Not if you want to win next year. If the Braves are thinking 2, 3, or more years away then it is a good move. However, I think we should be going for a division title and possibly more in 2010. So, thumbs down on this one.

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Mark,

This reminds me of the Kasten/Babcock era Hawks. Every year they tell us to wait for the offseason as we’d love the upgrades sure to come. They were never able to do anything of consequence either-EVER.

I despise Frank Wren!

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They need to sale the Braves and let Frank Wren go. He has no sense of baseball at all. The was a winning team before he came now we are the bad news bears…………….

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JT Grace…you got to be kidding, right? Lowe is done. Javier would have been a potential 20 game winner for at least 3 to 4 more years. The kid the Yankees gave the Braves may never play in the majors. Cabrera will be gone soon. The Yankees don’t get rid of good players…they buy them from other teams. This is a big “lose” for the Braves and for major league baseball…which has become a JOKE for fans of every team other than maybe 3 or 4 who can afford the overpiced players who play the game only for money now. Professional sports is for morons. College sports is moving in that direction. At least there will always be beaches to enjoy…but all the multi-million dollar developers are trying to buy those up, too. Well, at least the common people still have mind-numbing video games.

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Because of Tom Glavine and his union buddies, the game has been destroyed beyond repair. Isn’t it fun helping to pay for $5 million dollar utility infielders?

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Frank Wren just LOOOVES a-ballers and mediocre platoon players. Give up your ace pitcher? Eh, as long as you include that A-baller who MIGHT pitch for the real team in FIVE years, give me your 12th best player and it’s a deal. Wren’s always on about his big guys in the minors. Last yr they said they have to save a spot for these guys for 2011. Heyward? Freddie Freeman? I’m skeptical they’ll even be called up at the end of 2010, when the Braves are wetting the bed again in September, sitting in 3rd place. This team still cannot hit, and instead of getting rid of Lowe, or literally dumping a crummy pitcher like Kawakami, they threw away possibly their best for almost nothing. I’m holding out hope they trade for Dan Uggla, and get Schaffer outta town. An infield of Uggla, Escobar and Prado would be great, of course…..
And, BTW, I’m sick of Chipper Jones. Why not get rid of him? Dump salary, dump a guy who’s injured all the damned time. Dump a singles hitter who’s over the hill and makes tons of errors.

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A book by Sonny Clusters. We would read every page.

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Ok, now moron is the next “go to” word. Hmmmm, moving right along both Bay and Holliday may actually hit more HRs than Cabrera, but Cabrera would appear to be a better fielder according to the NY papers (hint: dropping the winning fly ball didn’t bring love for Holliday). Do we really need a booper who has no clue in the outfield (Dye, etc.all), or can Melky save more than he gives at the plate. The thought of David Wright in CitiPark (hit only 5 hrs there) has been entering my mind and to Bay/Holliday it might be the same at Turner Field.

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They were losers when they could not win big and thought a Div Title was an accomplishment. Losers now and forever under current leadership. Spend your money somewhere else. Why does Chipper stay?

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Frank Wren is an idiot….I am boycotting the Braves this year. I refuse to give them any of my money for this subpar baseball team. The Braves need an individual owner and not some corporation that only looks at the bottom line.

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Baba, I did. Melky played 150 more games than Church in 4 years and is a far superior outfielder. And he bats right handed, unlike most of our team.

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You’re stumped? It’s pretty obvious the Braves would have handed over any of their starting pitchers except Hanson and Jurrjens for a dependable power hitter, and that they really wanted to dump Lowe. It’s equally obvious that everyone wanted Vasquez, and nobody would give them what they want in return. So, they dumped 10 million, got a decent young outfielder and a great prospect. They might not get a dependable power hitter, but at least maybe now they can resign La Roche for a year or two. Either Wren is an idiot (I doubt) or he did the best he could when everyone knew he HAD to unload a starting pitcher. Give the man a little credit.

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mel, Is that the reason the Cardinals are desperately trying to re-sign Holliday? because of a dropped ball? Man, they must be really pi$$ed at him to offer him so much money. Mel, we need BOPPERS. We NEED to score runs. Why is that so hard to understand? A marginal hitter with a nice glove is a 4th outfielder.

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The Braves have been concerned more about money than winning for about the last 10 years. Why is this such a “revelation” now?

Anyone who truely follows the Braves knows this.

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Let’s see we want to show everybody that we are really serious about contending for the NL East title next year. Hey why don’t we trade our best starting pitcher from last year for a left fielder who MIGHT be a starter next season. The only edge in any category we would have had going into this season was starting pitching and now we have thrown that right out the window with this absolutely awful trade. Mark you are right we care more about saving $$$ than winning! Third or fourth place anyone??

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How much longer does Liberty Media have to ‘hold onto’ the Braves before they can cash in on the tax benefits they got in the ‘purchase’ of all that ’stuff’ for their Time/Warner stock? Seems to me I recall it was to be four or five years – that being the case we’ve got a couple of more with this kind of crap going on. On the other hand, is anybody in the Braves front office capable of making the case, or even bothers to attempt to make the case, to Liberty that continued ‘investment’ – maybe even above what has been budgeted – would mean a more valuable asset when the time comes to dump ‘em. I mean John Malone could give a crap less for baseball or Atlanta…all he understands is money and it would appear that neither Terry whatshisface nor John Sher-somethingorother and certainly not The Wrenner are willing or able to commit to Malone. My bet is that he’d make ‘em play – ‘You Bet Your Job’ – as the condition of giving ‘em more money…and they ain’t about to do that when they can cruise along in second division and, at least, come close to breaking even.

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As a Brave Fan that has moved to the Midwest I am furious with the ownership and the front office. I travel to see the Braves in Cincy, St. Louis, and Chicago and for the first time since I moved here 3 years ago I am not excited to make those trips. The ownership has let us the fan down. If the goal is to be third best that is not good enough. I defend the Braves all the time on this one my eyes have opened up. No more playoffs and no chance of a title. Welcome to the 80’s

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Point is, Melky is durable while Church was always hurt. A player can’t help you if he can’t play.

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Mark Bradley: We do agree on this one, as whatever chance the Braves had competing on strong pitching is gone, or maybe they won’t to extend Chipper’s contract another $30M. They aren’t able to rebuild as we move back to the 1970’s to be a low rung team unable to crawl out of the hole created when you don’t spend money to enrich the value of a franchise. It’s over, and in my life time the Braves will probably never rise to the heights of the 1990’s again.

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frank wren is a f–king idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

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Again Arky- Do your research. church, according to Bill James is a better defensive player than Melky.

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Wow, you guys are so negative and down.

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You can have Church. I’ll keep Melky.

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For every cap or shirt the Braves sell, the Yankees sell 10000.

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Actually this was a great trade for the Braves, believe me! Melky is a superstar in the making! Javier is only OK. In fact we’ll take Hanson, Jurjens and Heyward off your hands for you if you’d like. We Yankees are fair to everybody. With Love always, Brian

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Braves2010 what would Vazquez cost a year if he was a free agent? 15 or 20 mil/yr? But he will cost them only 9 mil and they are not stuck with a long term contract if this was his career year.

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On its face, this is not a very promising trade for the Braves. But if the money saved by trading Vazquez is used to sign LaRoche or Delgado (if healthy), would that be considered a reasonable swap?

If both Vazquez and Lowe pitch in 2010 more than like their career standards than they did last season, there are going to be a whole lot of people who are going to have to swallow their discougaging words.

Don’t be so hard on Bradley, folks. Remember, this is baseball, a sport he has never displayed much of a feel for in contrast to his usually
keen grasp of basketball and football. (’Dog & Jacket fanatics may disagree with the latter)

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Hey Ron, its people like you that this country is better off without. Please move to Europe or Canada with the rest of your fruity marxist friends. If your uneducated political views were not enough to tell us how ignorant you are then your positive spin on this trade speaks volumes. You don’t know jack**** about baseball. You are nothing but a looter. Pick up a history book. It will do you some good.

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I’ve got my eye on Heyward…if he’s worth a damn.

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Great column Mark. The only way this is a good trade is if the braves sign Holliday or Bay and I don’t see that happening because they are to cheap. They are going to go out and overspend for an average 1B so they can convince enough fans that they have a chance in order to sell tickets. I will not be paying my hard earned money to see Melky Cabera.

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“Javier would have been a potential 20 game winner for at least 3 to 4 more years”
-He’s a FREE AGENT!!! at the end of the year. He wouldn’t have come back. We couldn’t have afforded him. GET OVER IT! WE CAN’T AFFORD HIM! OK, let’s keep him for just this year, then let him walk for nothing.

“We keep an unhappy Derek Lowe”
-I’m sure he’ll get over it. He’s owed $45million over the next 3 years. Which is why he’s still wearing a Braves uniform. We could have traded him for Juan Rivera or someone of his likeness, and also shipped the Angels about $20million dollars. So we basically would have paid Juan Rivera $20mil + his original salary+ Derek Lowe. So we’d have Vazques (who’s going to want about the same, probably more, than Lowe makes now), Jurjjens & Hanson, who will both get significant raises through abritration over the next few years. So basically, after the 2010 season, we’d have Juan Rivera, NO Vasquez, NO Lowe, and out about $20mill dollars, maybe more cash than that.

“Vasquez, who stated he loved it here”
-He sure did. So did: Mark Teixeira, Mike Gonzalez, Ron Mahay, Will Ohman, Mr. Furcal, and a guy named LaRoche That’s just over the past couple of years. I’m sure at least ONE OF THESE GUYS will take a hometown discount and sign with the Braves instead of chasing big money….right? Right?

OF COURSE this trade isn’t a straight up victory for ATL. Wren is moving salary, and trying to look at the next couple of years as well. Would you all rather have Vazquez here next year, with, once again, no run support, and then have him walk away? Then we can do this again next offseason. Or, would you rather trade Lowe, give the team you trade him to a few million dollars, THEN have Vazquez walk away? Then we’d be out TWO starting pitchers PLUS a few million dollars.

OR, would you like to wait and maybe see what players we do have when the season actually starts, in, oh, 3 months from now. If he does nothing, and this is the same roster in March, then I’ll help you blast him away. I’ll be first in line. But, as of now, he’s gotten us Jurjjens for Renteria (anyone can debate that one all you want, I’ll listen, but that was highway robbery for ATL). We “gave away all our prospects” in the Teixeira deal. Because Andrus would be starting over Escobar, right? And Salty isn’t always hurt and was so much better than McCann, right? And we still managed to hang on to that Hanson kid, and Freeman, and Heyward. But our farm system is ‘depleted’, right? Wren’s working with what he’s given. He didn’t want to trade Vasquez. He had to. Nobody wanted Lowe and his salary. To be honest, we’re lucky we got anything for Vasquez. Would YOU trade away a starting outfielder, and two prospects for a guy that is only going to play for you for one year? I wouldn’t.

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Remember when players used to take less to play for the Braves……….well thats gone

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Been a Braves fan since 1972. Why would you trade Vasquez for anybody right now? If this is the team we go into the season with I’m done…………….the Braves are done for sure!

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Jdub:

When he walks as a free agent we would’ve gotten comp draft picks which is better tham Melky Fing Cabrera or Len Barker, or whoever the hell these losers just traded for.

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Enter your comments here
Hey Bradely ever hear the expression, buy low sell high, that’s what Frank did! Let’s wait and see what the ultimate deal looks like.

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Baba, you conveniently left off a few stats in your 4 year comparison:

Church AB-1344/R-179/H-368/2B-102/3B-3/SB-17
Cabrera AB-1904/R-249/H-514/2B-90/3B-12/SB-44

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I can’t even stand reading this article. The fact is that we don’t need vazquez. Our rotation will be almost as good as last year if not better. Hudson will be back to being a top notch starter, hanson and jurrjens will each have another year under their belt, kawakami will have adjusted to pitching in the majors, and lowe will have figured out his mechanics and win 17-18 games. Vazquez was completely expendable and we solidified our future rotation and added a hard throwing lefty reliever who can learn a lot from Wagner if he makes the roster. I don’t like cabrera at all but I like the prospects we got and the 9 million we freed up in payroll. In no way is this the ridiculous trade Mark Bradley is making this out to be. I don’t know where we are going to find that big bat but if Wren can find one that fits I wll consider it a successful offseason.

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Oh yea, and I’m reading comments saying the 2010 Braves are done. LOL @ THAT. The offseason ain’t over fools! Melky can turn out to be a trade bait to even a bigger deal (I kinda see that happening.)

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Ok so the Braves must operate with salary constraints imposed by the owner. So what else is new?

This trade was not made for Cabrera. This trade was made for Vizcaino.
Cabrera & Dunn with the $500K were just to tidy up the trade.

Fast forward to 2012. Starting rotation – Jerrgens, Hanson, Vizcaino,
Medlen.

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Espn, which seems to know nothing about the team has suggested Uggla for first base and even worse Johnny Damon. Do you think there is any merit to either?

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and of all teams the Yankees…if our goal is to win the World Series (fans and players goal only) why make it that much f’n harder.

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@ BABA

Well he plays better defense than Loaf. Do you not agree?

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THE PHILLIES GOT ROY HALLADAY

WE TRADED OUR BEST PITCHER FOR MELKY CABRERA!!

THEY GO TO THE WORLD SERIES-WE TRY TO STAY ABOVE .500

HOW MANY WAYS CAN YOU SAY “STUPID LOSERS”??

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Jdub, I couldn’t agree with you more. Vasquez was not leaving the East Coast due to his contact, so no LA. Those players that we wanted to move (Lowe/Johnson), nobody wanted. I’m not overly excited about the trade, but know it had to be done. Last note, many among this blog have stated they wouldn’t again waste their time buying tickets to see the Braves next year, I want to commend you on dressing as empty seats this season…even when Javy was pitching.

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Yea, I agree. But Ryan Church didn’t help at all last year (especially in hitting. I didn’t see much from him). But it did led Diaz to have more plate appearances last year. Maybe we can see a Diaz/Cabrera platoon? Doubt it though.

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JUST TORE UP MY SEASON TICKET APPLICATION, WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING BRAVES (ATLANTA) THIS YEAR…. GO GWINNETT BRAVES… SOMETHING TO CHEER ABOUT ANYWAY… LESS MONEY FOR US.. IF THEY WANT TO SAVE MONEY SO DO I….

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This is one reason I don’t like baseball. Until some sort of salary cap comes in, it will always be the Yankees using the rest of the Major Leagues(save Boston, the L.A.’s etc..) as their farm system. The luxury tax they just paid was about equal to the payroll of the Marlins. That’s ridiculous!!!!

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JUST TORE UP MY SEASON TICKET APPLICATION, WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING BRAVES (ATLANTA) THIS YEAR

It’s funny…the other day my friend was asking me what the definition of “knee-jerk” is.

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I don’t like dealing Vazquez, but I don’t blame Wren for this deal either. He’s shown a good eye in the past for picking up pitching prospects, remember the deal for Jarr Jurrjens for Renteria looked like this at the time too.

Basically, this was a near-done deal the day we decided to sign the contract extension for Hudson. That gave us the need/room to make this deal. Of course, the other side of the equation includes the deals we made last year for Kenshin and Lowe — both of which appear to be above market right now.

Anyway, as long as we’re taking the $8M in savings — $11.5M – $3M (for Melky) – $500k from the Yanks — to get that bat we need, I’m good with this deal. If the market acts the way it looks, then maybe we even get LaRoche back here on a one-year deal to plug the hole at first until Freeman’s ready, and give the offense the punch needed for an outfield with a lot of athletic ability, but not power.

Or maybe, we go get a one-year rental on a good outfielder with a signing or a deal, and let Freeman play first this year, and wait for Heyward next year. Either way, I don’t see this deal as complete until spring training starts and we see where the money went. If we could get a good bat cheap, like the Angels did with Abreu last year — then this was a good deal. On the other hand, if we do indeed go to Florida with this money still in our pocket … then Mark’s right and this deal exposes us for being more concerned about money than winning.

Later,

Don!

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jeffery d:

The definition of knee jerk is Frank Wren. See the Soriano and JV trades.

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Who said Melky was “the bopper?” He’s a young, proven major league outfielder who bats right handed and will give us depth at a position where we most lack it. He’s a piece, just like he was for the Yanks. Plus we freed up $8-9M and got prospects we can keep or deal. I just don’t get the outrage.

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@Erock
Haha! Nice one.

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Its funny that braves fans are so blind to reality. Everyone is ripping Wren for this trade, which doesn’t appear to be great at the moment, but im sure it was as good as we could get given the no-trade that limited demand. Someone actually said that “EVERY” trade Wren has made has been horrible. WOW! Do you think that the Detroit fans would like to have Jurrjens and Gorkys Hernandez back for that 1-yr of an aging Renteria? Wren looked good there i’d say! Or how about turning Kotchman into Laroche last yr? Laroche played great. Oh and did you all forget that we gave up 3 lousy prospects and 1 solid prospect for Javier Vasquez in the first place. Wren got a GREAT season out of Vasquez then turned it into a solid OF and 2 good prospects, one maybe great prospect. But if you can’t give him credit for the Jurrjens trade, then your just bitter and foolish

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We need an outfield bat and a first baseman. We got NEITHER and our GM says Melky is a ‘nice fit”. He may be a nice fit, but he’s in the wrong puzzle.

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As a Braves fan living in NJ, Melky was never liked by Girardi in turn led to his exit. Cabrera just made the OF younger and Wren got rid of over $10 million. Yeah, Javier was an innings eater and made over 30 starts but was only 15-10 in the NL. All NYY fans remember is Game 7, 2004 ALCS. I don’t see it translating well to the AL again. Besides, the uncertainty regarding Jaba & Hughes starting forced Cashman on this deal. Have a feeling Wren is going to make a play for Adrian Gonzalez.

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Don!:

Is it against the law to get value for value in a trade?? If this were August and we were out of it, go ahead a trade Teixeira for Kotchman. You don’t make the same trade in December.

If all you can get for JV is a nobody like Melky, YOU WAIT!!!!!

If you want to go to Turner Field next year and watch interest accumulate on the $8MM, be my guest. I was hoping we could watch good baseball instread.

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im offically thru with the Braves. Ted aint commin back so they are now offically a mid market team and never will play in the postseason again under these owners. check back in 2017

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“nice fit” huh Franky. I’d like to see if my foot would fit up Frank’s hind parts

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If the Braves get off to a hot start he will start writing about how great they are. What a loser.

This kid Arodys Vizcaino is the key to this trade. Once the Yankees included him the Braves had to make the deal. In about 3 years when he’s in the big leagues you all will talk about how great this trade was. Also, there are about 5 or 6 decent pitchers still out there a lot cheaper than Derek Lowe so don’t be surprised if they still trade him. Everyone is so hung up on a power hitter but let’s face it, there’s none available. Cabrera is a good ball player and a heck of an outfielder, he only made 3 errors last year so that alone makes the Braves better.

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WTF just happened!? I hope Wren was included with the trade. 2010 season is already over and they got rid of a picture who actually enjoyed being in Atlanta and was the glue to their chemistry…

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He is not ‘a heck of an outfielder”. he’s middling as far as CF’s go. Ranked 12-15 out of 26

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Is it true that the Yankees made us throw in Brook Jacoby and Rick Behenna too? I’m getting deja-vu on this one.

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I’m a third generation Braves fan. My grandfather rooted for the Boston Braves, the Milwaukee Braves, and the Atlanta Braves. My dad lived and dies with Milwaukee and Atlanta, and I love the Falcons and the Hawks, but the Braves will ALWAYS be my team, but I never thought I’d see the day when I was ashamed to be a Braves fan, it’s here.

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Yes Mel, I’m sure Melky is the missing piece. I’m equally sure that Wren is the missing link.

Make room for another trophy.

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I wish baseball operated on Mark Bradley’s terms. Then you could just trade Derek Lowe for Albert Pujols and all of your problems would be solved. Unfortunately, the game and the business of real baseball are a little more complicated than your average 12-team fantasy league. People like Frank Wren, who have the full support and trust of John Scheurholtz, take steps and make moves that don’t always make sense to AJC columnists. Whether it’s releasing Tom Glavine, signing Derek Lowe, or trading for Adam Laroche, Wren gets criticized for every move he makes. Guess what, we were a better team last year because of the moves he made so let’s just see how this shakes out before we make more hasty judgments.

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i personally don’t mind being a mid-market team. much rather that than be in the odious group of fat cats that are destroying baseball. I don’t want to outspend everybody.

our problem isn’t budget (entirely) but allocation of budget. First Wren tried to give a 5 yr/80 mill deal to Burnett, a 32 yr old who had thrown more than 200 innings twice in his career, and when that failed he panicked. He overpaid for Lowe, whose nearest offer was 3yr/36 mill. We gave a 4 year contract to a 36 yr old pitcher, and paid $24 mill more than the closest bidder.

I hope Lowe bounces back, but i fear that signing is going to hinder us for years to come. for goodness sake, until this morning, he was our 6th starter, and making 15% of the payroll.

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ArkyTech

December 22nd, 2009
6:52 pm
Baba, you conveniently left off a few stats in your 4 year comparison:

Church AB-1344/R-179/H-368/2B-102/3B-3/SB-17
Cabrera AB-1904/R-249/H-514/2B-90/3B-12/SB-44

Arky do you realize that quoting those stats only prove that you are a know nothing baseball fan? In over 500 more at bats, Melky only has 12 more doubles than Church? 70 more runs a few more triples and stolen bases? That’s an entire season, man!

The bottom line Arky, you idiot, is that you had a guy in the fold who could produce the same amount of offense and maybe better defense and he didn’t cost you your best pitcher!?

Geez guy, get a clue! The more you post the more you show your lack of knowledge!

It was a salary dump, plain and simple. You got a guy in return in Melky that you already had in your camp in Church!

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Funny, Mark, but in reading espn.com, si.com, mlb,com, etc, most of the baseball experts state this was a prettyy good trade for the Braves. But then, compared to your extensive baseball knowledge, they probably don’t know very much, huh? Starting center fielder for the world champs who batted .275 last year and can play all 3 outfield positions extremely well, along with the Yankees #3 prospect?? Not bad considering Vasquez has already had one stint with the Yankees and they were less than impressed,, so much that they quickly shipped him off to Arizona for a lot less than the Brave got this time. But the fans of Atlanta are the real lucky ones, because we’re the fortunate ones who get to look forward to reading another “gem” from Mark Bradley tomorrow. Big whup..

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Baba, It is? Since when does HRs mean more than hitting the ball, catching the ball, throwing the ball? Manny is a very good HR hitter, has LA been to the WS with him? The Tigers had/have some very good HR hitters…have they been back to the WS since they got their Cabrera? Remember, before the Yanks spent a Ka-Jillian dollars on personnel and had some of the best players they were the best on paper. Unfortunately, we don’t play the game on paper.

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Pete and Repeat (the modern ambiguously gay duo),

Were you even alive during that trade? Yes, please remind us all that it was a salary dump deal for someone the team already has (statistically speaking) but all of this knee-jerk reaction to one trade is absurd. You sound like a Mets fan.

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@ clowns

There is no connection to the Cabrera/Smoltz trades. All I was getting at was just wait until the dust settles and then make reaction then.

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Everyone that is being so negative needs to chill out. You dont know what is going to happen this upcoming season. Maybe Javy pitches great maybe he doesnt. I didnt want to see this trade happen but realistically what were you expecting to happen. We all know we dont have Ted Turner as the owner so we cant spend money. So i think we all need to take a deep breath and move on.

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Mark you are wrong in a few areas:
Soriano is gone and this is a plus. The guy scared me everytime he stepped on the mound. Wagner is not a young man by no means but he showed last year that he is ready to play and he will be an up grade from Soriano.
Gonzalez gave me nausea everytime he pitched. he walked 2-3 hitters each outing before he would even get an out. The guy is scary and not what we want on the mound.
Saito is a veteran and has a proven track record. Something gonzo did not have.
The trade today is a different story. I am not sure how I feel about it until I see if we are going to do anything with the money. If there is no significant move from here then todays trade was pointless.
We do still need a first baseman and the longer we wait the worse our chances are of landing a quality bat.
Our lineup at this point for next year is just like it was. We have NO home run hitters. Mccann is our biggest offensive threat and he doesnt even play everyday. Chipper is next and he doesnt play every day either.
Once again we have a lineup with no pop and the starting pitching is a little worse.

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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091222&content_id=7842450&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

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if this is a prelude to another move then it should have been a three team trade for a bat and a pitching prospects,their is no guarantee the trade Wren is waiting for will be there in my opinion he is taking a gamble on prelimanary talks with other teams from the meetings but see frustrations in the future,i think this is a year to late if melky was traded last year for a kelly johnson?

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Good article, Mark. Hard to see how this club is better right now than it was at the end of 2009. We just lost one of our best starting pitchers for prospects, basically. I don’t count Melky as the main part of the deal– it’s the young hot prospect the Braves got in return that was the main component on the Yankees side. He may or may not contribute in 2012 or so, but for 2010… the Braves got nothing.

AND the Braves don’t have a first baseman– not only do that not have a first baseman, but they’re very unlikely to get one that is as good as LaRoche is, either defensively or offensively. (LaRoche, as we all know, is too expensive, which is becoming a trend).

So the 2010 group is basically degraded. 3rd place finish here we come!

Why don’t we just go ahead and trade Chipper for a couple of hotshot prospective infielders?

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I’m sitting here reading the comments that Mark Bradley has posted in response to his own article and I’m just AMAZED by how shortsighted and one-dimensional his understanding of the game is. I think he truly believes that Frank Wren just woke up today and said, “I’m gonna trade Javier Vazquez to the first team that makes an offer.” Question, Mark: Do you think Frank Wren would have traded Javier Vazquez for Adrian Gonzalez if that was an option? Do you think he would have dumped Derek Lowe for Dan Uggla if that was an option? There are mitigating factors with every trade that are obviously beyond your comprehension. But by all means, keep crying like an upstart fan who debates the complexities of baseball with his wife.

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Pete,

Thanks for inquiring about my own manhood. Ask your wife about it.

As for your age; some of us expect more from people over 50, but maybe you’re mind is slipping.

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g.h/RA, I’m with you. Win or lose…I love the Braves!!!! It beats loven’ the Mets.

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Is there any damn wonder that noone give two fuzzy squirts about this team anymore? Since Te sold it, it has necome a bottom line bussiness that maintains rich peiples lifestyles. Ownership does’nt give a damn about winning and this stupid , one sided move proves it. Javy is a strike pitcher who wins game when it counts. Oh well , just 8 more months til meaningful football.

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lol look at melky on this picture.

http://api.ning.com/files/iOvqmnhbC6XQ-4*zgG5Ey2zGnpF29I9-NSzUX-3uptg0jnZphOPyw*V4gMfRRUm8ZD2hwwChWwHkk7P4ioLQruwWfX9aLm5B/MelkyCabreraKissyFace.jpg

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Why do you hate Wren so much?! Don’t you realize that there is more than just a big time pitcher being traded for prospects and a good (not great) outfielder? We freed up 9 million meaning we have about 17 million to spend. And if you look at our rotation it is still the best in the national league. (Don’t you dare say the Phillies is better because it has not nearly the amount of depth that ours does) We will get a guy like Nady or Derosa or Byrd but isn’t that all that we could do. Seriously there wasn’t a better move to make to allow us to get a solid outfielder or firstbaseman. And with the addition of one of these guys our lineup will be way improved that one that had Kotchman, Garret, Kelly, and Jordan in it. We have Wren to thank for getting us a center fielder, a fantastic arm in Jair (for nearly nothing lost besides Renteria who was out played by Yunel), and finally the decision to release Glavine and call up Tommy. All these decisions were all mocked at the time but I didn’t see people like you ever bringing up these arguements ever again. You just wait and see how this plays out before you bash an excellent GM in my mind.

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By the way how can you make a claim that were saving money when the final payroll hasn’t been set. WE’RE NOT THROUGH SPENDING YOU DOUCHER. Why dont you go and make a valid arguement, i believe thats your job.

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Mcann doesnt play everyday. Chipper doesnt either. Who is the power bat when these two guys are out? Once again we are looking at a subpar lineup with no pop. these two are replaced with infante and ross. Boy that brings fear to the other teams lineup. WE HAVE NO ONE IN OUR LINEUP THAT BRINGS FEAR TO THE OTHER PITCHER. WHEN OTHER TEAMS PLAY THE BRAVES THEIR PITCHERS ARE PROBABLY RELIEVED. WE HAVE NO ONE IN THE LINEUP CAPABLE OF HITTING OVER 3O HOMERS.

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“would your opinion change if they take the Vazquez money and put it toward signing Holliday or Bay?” — Yes, of course, but it still doesn’t erase the feeling Wren should have held out for more value in return. The ONLY way this makes sense is if Bay or Holliday (or some other big-bat, big salary arriving via trade) signs within the next few days, meaning this trade was a necessary prerequisite to finalizing a free agent signing or swinging a big deal. If he DOES NOT land a Bay or Holliday or similar slugger then this deal is certainly a short-term disaster, a thumb of the nose at the players and fans.

I’m not arguing trading Vazquez (it was inevitable), I’m arguing the paltry return. Melky Cabrera is barely an upgrade over Ryan Church and quite possibly not that. Dunn is a set-up man at best. An A-level prospect is a long-term gamble; that’s what you get in return for dumping Boone Logan’s salary. Geez.

I just can’t bring myself to believe Toronto, Tampa Bay, or Baltimore wouldn’t pony up more in return for Vazquez both because they need his arm and they need to keep him out of NY. The AL East is going to be NY, Boston, and the least. If I was a fan in one of THOSE cities I’d be absolutely furious.

Now, if Wren signs Bay or Holliday AND LaRoche then I’m liking what I see; that’s called taking your best shot without being foolish with the owner’s money.

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The Atlanta Braves trading Javier Vazquez to the NY Yankees for Melky Cabrera cries of a rip-off, that’s fore sure. But the trade does make one wonder if the Braves and the crafty Frank Wren plan to make a move for Adrian Gonzalez to play first base.

The Braves have alienated Adam LaRoche, who came to the Braves in the second half to add some life to the declining offense. Many who follow baseball thought LaRoche had earned a starting spot. But the Braves haven’t said a word to him, which led him to tell the press, “Maybe I should have batted .400.”

Yeah, I am stumped, too.

But by trading away the fourth-place finisher in the 2009 Cy Young race for a second-rate outfielder certainly has the smell of Frank Wren all over it. The Braves are likely trying to go after one of the top first baseman in the game in Gonzalez.

Even if that is the case, it still does not make sense. The Braves feared the nearly $12 million they had to pay Vazquez and ch0ked. They choked.

The Braves are going to have to still pay big bucks for Gonzalez, at the cost of pitching.

I cannot make heads or tails out of these moves, can you?

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This is a pathetic move. Please explain to me how a crappy city like Philadelphia can do what they do when Atlanta dominated them for 15 years. How can they afford the talent they have while the Braves keep dumping players. Please explain.

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San Diego-Have the Yankees ever cared about money?
Everyone who hates this- I like to wait and see, but I feel you. However, Last year was Javy’s best year, good to strike while the iron is hot. What if he sucked this year? Then we pay 11.5 million for nothing. Talkingchop says that focusing on the Javy for Melky part is the wrong place to look. Need to look at the prospects we got. Particular the Vizcaino kid.

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Well, at least this makes the Philly and Mets fans happy. We NEED a cleanup hitter to bat between Chipper and McCann. If Wren can’t do that between now and April 4th, it could be another long year, regardless of how well our pitching staff does.

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Good move, now the next move……no more season tickets, no more $$ spent on the Braves.

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That “big hitter” may be a Marlon Byrd or Xavier Nady

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yes the vizcaino kid is a good pick up but is this not Bobby Cox last year at the helm? i would have thought they would make more of an effort for a World Series bid, This move baffles me!

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This stinks, I got a call and my buddy said hey the Braves made a trade. I said oh now. He said they made a deal with the Yanks can you guess it. I did he said, how did you guess. I said I just thought who is our best and their worst.

I am a huge Chipper fan and realize he is the best thing we have, but why don’t we let him go where he can win and get back the types of player he would bring. Not Dale Murphy to the Phillies for no one kinda deal, but a contender would be willing to give something up for Chipper.
Also, the Yanks have no farm system so I would not get to excited about these prospects.

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I doubt our return will be an AllStar caliber player.

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wren just telling the simple truth would have been nice: we gotta cut payroll and i cut the best deal i could.

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Flash: Yankees steal Vazquez! Braves fans left feeling Lowe!

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When in the hell is Liberty Media going to sell the Braves? They have to be the worst owners, behind the Ford Family of the NFL Lions!

We need new ownership who is willing to spend money. We have seen what big wallets get? (Yankees, BoSox.)

MLB made a huge mistake in ever approving the sale of the Braves to Liberty Media!

Time Warner was idiots for blocking Arthur Blank’s bid to buy them!

Please,for the love of God, Liberty please sell the Braves to Arthur Blank!!!

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Welcome back to the mid-80s Braves. Lots of money lying around, not a lot of wins. A couple of good players, a lot of mediocre players, and a bunch of losing pitchers. I hope I’m wrong.

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For those of you who weren’t around to see the 1970’s Braves teams, you’re fixing to get your chance.

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True Mark. In order to get Gonzalez, it’s gonna taka a good player, not just prospects. We BETTER NOT give up Heyward or Hanson. We will get a bat with 20-25 HR ceiling. Might as well just re-sign Laroche and cut our losses.

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Hey Mark, your getting it…
we have nothing and dont look to be getting anything

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2010, 2011, 2012, 2013………….is this trade like the healthcare bill? Pay for it now and it doesn’t kick in until 2013 or 2014.

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It would have been better to eat 4-5 mil of Lowe’s contract and move him. On the bright side the 500K they got in return should cover Greg Norton for this year

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FYI, Necromancer, Liberty must hold onto the Braves until at least the end of next year. I’m sure they’ll sell them after that because Liberty is not exactly a sports franchise company…Matt the Brave

So, at least we have one more year of sucking?

And what you said about Liberty not being a sports franchise company?

NFS!

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will MLB allow the remaining Braves to wear a patch with Vazquez’s number on their sleeves this season????

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Would you people WAIT until the other deals are done before you open your mouth and show your ignorance??? It’s not over yet. Something BIG is about to happen.

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Screw the Braves!!!!!

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I don’t think you can judge this trade right now. Wren freed up 10 million dollars to spend on another player. Hopefully, the brave will resign Laroche ( he really gave the braves a boost last year) The trade will be viewed a failure or success based on two things.

1) How well Hudson pitches this year (We are basically adding Hudson this year for Vazquez) If Hudson has a good year then this will be a good trade.

2) Who the braves sign with the 10 million they saved by trading Vazquez. If they sign Laroche and he gives them a boost like last year then this will be a successful trade.

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David, Frank Wren is a genius. His next 4 big moves will be:
1) Get rid of Escobar
2) Apply for gov’t bail-out
3) Buy NY Yankees
4) Rest comfortably via health-care option in nearest looney-bin
All this while we hear Chip Carey say, “Turner Field will now be known as the ‘old melk barn’,
heh heh heh, and think how much we will save on fireworks!”

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Sorry, Mark. David was another blog.

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I’m MAD!!! This trade makes no sense. Its sad to see the braves return to the braves of old.

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The Braves have been off the radar for a few years.As long as a corporation owns then and making money is the bottom line,not wining,I am AWOL when it comes to the Braves.

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Atlanta fans are being lied to! This is about dismantling a team for financial reasons and NOTHING ELSE! The moves made in this off season are the worst this organization has made since it moved here in 66′. And we are being fed the lie about improving the team – no way. Why doesn’t Frank Wren tell us the real reason for these moves. Maybe next we can sign Isiah Rider as a free agent.

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jdub,

Great column. Every point that you made was valid.

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Always thought the Wren bashers were misguided considering the J.J. trade, the Javy trade, etc…he’s really made some good moves since taking over. This one, however, is confusing, to say the least. Why would any GM trade a pitcher of Javy’s caliber for an outfielder of Cabrera’s caliber? Either he feels that is truly the best deal out there, and considering it’s just December, I don’t buy that for a minute, or he is constrained more than we know from a payroll standpoint. And really, the team didn’t free up 11.5 million to use in the free agent market, unless Cabrera plays for free. Pretty sure that’s not the case.

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Mr. A:

I think something big already happened. Now we need to get a shovel and a broom and get this steaming pile out of here.

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Hard to figure any other way than the Braves are now content to pursue mediocrity. I still like the 5 starters but the offense is no better (maybe even worse) than when we ended ‘09. We need a big bat….still.

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season ticket holders, fellow braves fans, everyone who is reading this… don’t attend another braves game. they don’t care about us, why should we care about them? Just another one of Frank Wren’s idiotic moves. All they care about is the cash. so what do we do? boycott the games. not give them any cash. If you don’t have the payroll for success, then sell them to someone who does. For god sakes, who ARE all these people they’re signing? why sign a power hitter if he’s a career minor leaguer at age 31? why trade soriano for someone who’s ERA is double or triple his own? WHY OH WHYYY trade Javier Vasquez for Melky Cabrera? Who in god’s name is Joe Thurston? I’ll tell you.. a career 223 hitter, w/ about a homer or two on his resume. Where’s the big bat Wren?I was relieved when they said Lowe was leaving, not Vasquez. but hey! Frank Wren’s an idiot. let’s ship off our best pitcher on the staff for someone who may not even make the team come spring training!! BOYCOTT BRAVES BASEBALL.

the fans deserve more than one world series title.
After all, we are braves fans, one of the largest fan bases in the country, maybe even the world.

Get rid of Frank Wren, So long Bobby Cox, get rid of Pendleton, the only one doing his job is McDowell.

Everyone who is defending Frank Wren’s reign as GM is a MORON. he has GOT to be the WORST excuse for a GM in major league baseball. Give me a shot at it, I’ll at least get us to the playoffs guys.

Frank Wren doesn’t know what he’s doing, and neither does Bobby Cox, nor Terry Pendleton. they’re too soft. get a real coaching staff, get a real GM.

I personally am not watching another braves game, until all three are out of Atlanta.

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great article!

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Wow, Bradley – bashing Hewitt and Wren in the same week?

I gave up on Hewitt a long time ago, but haven’t lost all hope for Wren.

Surely to God they’re not going into Bobby’s last season with the roster as is.

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MB,

I am an avid reader and occasional poster on DOB’s blog, and usually read your stuff when it comes along as well. I’d think that maybe the best way to analyze this trade is to wait and see what happens. Judged alone, you are correct, Vazquez for Melky and 2 minor league pitchers (although one appears to be a real-deal Neftali Feliz-type guy) would be a mind-boggling move. But we have to wait and see if any of these guys are included in a package for an impact bat (Vizcaino is a centerpiece-type prospect, according to folks who are supposed to know). Maybe this will free up enough salary to sign a couple of good-not-great bats to plug in, and we’ll roll along from there. How many contenders out there (the real players for one of our starting pitchers) have an extra IMPACT bat they could toss into a deal that would have appeased us fans? Not very many, would be the answer. Teams knew we weren’t keeping all 6 pitchers, so to expect a bat better than some of the FA options available was foolhardy at best I think.

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down w/ Frank Wren!

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Clusters could still play some ball. When we was playing we was able to put the ball in play most of the time unlike somebody else we played with on the team that wasn’t getting many hits when he was here. Clusters could easily play outfield or infield and also could pitch. We would want to talk with Bobby Cox first to see how he would use us.

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“Cabrera can score runs” You know I heard Frank Wren say that too. Well anybody on base in front of Tex and A-Rod can score runs. Who exactly is going to drive him in here? Javy doesn’t have to pitch as well in NY because the Yanks score runs.

Trying to defend Wren because Lowe has an un-tradable contract is lunacy! Remembering that he got JJ isn’t going to make anyone forget that he signed Lowe to that deal.

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Well, I’ve read all the reactions and everyone living in the reality based universe agrees. What a horrible trade. Oh sure, some damn fool on NBC sports website believes this will be a great trade for the Braves if some 15 conditions are me.
1. Vizciano becomes Cy Young
2. Cabrerra becomes Manny Ramierez
3. Javy forgets how to pitch.
4. I believe also everyone gets a pony.

Way to many people here believe Wren has powerful Jedi Mind tricks that will enable him to obtain a 40 HR man for 5 bubblegum cards and a set of jacks or make another GM believe that Melky Cabrera is more than a defensive replacement outfielder.

Nope – none of that is going to happen. This is a salary dump and a horrible trade. Anything else is wishful thinking.

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I was in Baltimore when they run Wren out of there…. Stupid Stupid Stupid

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Please! Stop the whining until everything is put into proper perspective. At least wait till spring training is over and see what the Bravos have or have not done. Then we will truly know what 2010 Braves look like. Bold prediction-Vazquez will have a bummer of a year in pinstripes. He will not be the ace pitcher you have made him out to be after one good year. Big games will be his downfall. Wait and see. I predict Cabrera may not be in Atl. come spring. If he is he will have a fairly good year. Nothing spectacular but will be an upgrade over Church and Anderson. By the way-have you noticed lately that Frank Wren keeps saying he isn’t finished tweaking the club? Let’s give him till opening day to show what he can do.

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Can we trade Wren ? Please somebody take him, he is horrible. Trade away your best pitcher from last year and get back an average outfielder and prospects. Why trade away someone that has proven he is a winner to get someone that might be good ? I just don’t understand

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The optimistic side of me wants to say that there is an additional move that will take place. Melky is a decent player; however not the “bat” that I imagined. I would say that many teams were balking at the trade Lowe considering the Braves attempt to have teams share the salary. I wonder with this trade if we could see a big bat first baseman “Gonz”. I remain positive until everything transpires; however not thrilled about trading Vazquez.

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A-freaking-men! A scorching indictment like this is exactly what’s needed. For too long, Wren has been allowed to mismanage our team’s efforts off the field, and it’s about time someone at the AJC called him out for it. However, as bad as Wren’s decision making has been thus far, it’s just a symptom of something much worse: our ownership. Liberty Media since taking over, has single-handedly deconstructed what used to be a competitive ball club, turning us into a club “Serious about saving $$$, less so about winning,” as Bradley puts it. Complicated doesn’t begin to describe the predicament we find ourselves. It’s too easy to only burn Wren for this. Case and point, Wagner and Saito weren’t brought here by Wren alone. Cox and Schuerholz, among others presumably signed off as well. Wren just seemed to be more responsible for it. But, Wren’s stench clearly permeates more so than Cox or Schuerholz around here. Maybe it’s his perceived arrogance or the disaster that was last season; either way HE NEEDS TO GO. However, I’d argue it doesn’t matter who replaces him; we’d still be non-competitive in the NL East. Until we get new and better ownership – an owner or owners who want to win and win now – we are back where we started. Wren or no Wren.

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This team talks a good talk but this shows they have no interest in contending and now I am not sure they even freaking know what they are doing. This trade is the lamest and Philly gets better we get a ho hum player for a stud. Please fire Wren and Schuerholz. We got a nobody for frenchy and he is not with the team, I am not sold on Mclouth at all and now we GIVE AWAY our #1 pitcher, we could get jeramine dye for a good price, put in in left, traded mclouth and got mike cameron, in center and then worked something to get a bat at first like adrian gonzales. I am a fan but this management team has no idea how to get it right. I thought last yr we were one player away and now as as fan I am angry, thanks

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Necromancer, a blind homer wrote the Iliad and the Odyssey. Thanks for the compliment.

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When I first heard of this trade I was very upset too but I think this is the stepping stone for a big bat…hopefully AGON…maybe McLouth or Melky,Freddie Freeman and a couple of good pitching prospects for him.what you think Mark??

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why doesnt schuerholz just come out and tell the trurh if they cut payroll or what? Maybe it will help us understand w t he!! is up with this team.
If u sign Nady or Laroache and tell me the fans are gonna win the east …..well nobody is going to show up.
Can we petition Oprah or Bill Gates to buy back the franchise?
Who is the wealthiest Atlantan? Tyler Perry?

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Unreal. Someone needs to tell the Braves owners we want to trade them. They are a joke and the GM is also a joke. How sad for the Braves. They are back in the 70’s.

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Maybe with the direction the team is going in, after Bobby Cox retires, they can bring Ted Turner back as Manager. His record was 0-1, so no way to go but up.

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LOL, so you say the Braves are more concerned with money than winning? Welcome to 10 years ago, Mark.

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The Braves have been only marginally better than the Pirates since last June. Oh wait, I’m wrong, since June 2007.
This confirmed it for me…baseball sux. The imbalance of payrolls makes MLB a joke, and their commissioner keeps delivering the stale punch line over and over.
Frank Wren and Liberty Media, say hello to 12K attendance next year, unless the Yankees are coming to town.

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Mark great article. Frank Wren is so far in over his head,what a stupid jerk. I can’t believe he made this trade. It does not matter who he is able to obtain in the future he will over pay badly.When ticket sales go to hell,don’t blame the fans, call Frank Wren. This reminds me of the Obama health care bill.

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I gave up my season tickets today. I’m sick and tired of all the “business decision” roster moves. The Braves management has more interest in keeping payroll down then producing a division champion. I hope the roster savings cover the further drop off of season ticket renewals.

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Wow! So many professional general managers putting in their two cents. Oh yeah, none of you are general managers are you? Why do you think you haven’t made the grade? Could it be you are only capable in your minds? Give some slack!

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Just watch the Mets, and the Marlins go ahead in standings this year over the braves. Worst trade ever. Goooooo Braves! 4th place! Woohooo! Just watch em’ have a losing record next year thanx to this trade!

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Hey Born2Buzz ..

Speaking of payroll…….the commissioner make 19 Million a year, and for what ?

Yes baseball is a joke period…….

There will never be a situation where all teams have a salary cap…….why ???????

Because the Yankees have said they will sue Baseball if they can’t have it their way !

Makes you proud to be a Yankee fan ???????

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WJ:

No offense, but if Frank Wren can be a GM, my senile 13 year old dog could be one. Quantum Physics throws me a bit, but the GM gig seems pretty straightforward.

How long have you been Mr. Wren’s Man Friday?

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i wonder how much wren pays his relatives and friends to take up for him on these blogs. the braves are not the only ones cutting cost. i went from going to 30 + games 2 years ago when he sold us out getting rid of tex when there was still a chance of a decent year to 20 games last year to just a handful this coming year. for the 7 dollars a beer and 4 dollars for a bottle of water we save tv will do just fine.

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Speclative, but there just has to be more to this. All we discuss is “the bat”. If the trade included Miggy, I would smile, but Melky is the wrong Cabrera.

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Absolute joke. Frank Wren has no business being the GM. If the Braves are trying to save money, there were 10 other trades out there much better than this. Just can’t believe this one. Vasquez becomes a key part of another great Yankee team and we get a platoon or bench guy……terrible move and one that will haunt the Braves for sure.

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Have not been to a game since game one 1995! Missed nothing!

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I fear I will remember this as the day I stopped loving baseball

I is the key word, because it’s been about the money for a long time. I was just the fan of a team who had it to spend. I was always disgusted by the Yankees buying world series titles, but it was at least tolerable when we had the means to compete. Only reason the Braves sign hometown talent is for the hometown discounts.

This really is a sad day :/ I feel like my dog died.

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Congradulations to me who all last year said Frank Wren was the most idiotic GM to ever be hired and walllaaaaa He just proved me 100% right..Way to Ownership to allow this moron to wreck this team Just like he wrecked the Baltimore Orioles. Wow He signs a hazard in Saito and Wagner and Lets go Rafael Soriano,and Gonzalez. and he gets Jesse Chavez from the pirates basically .He releases Kelly Johnson ryan church and greg norton ok fine but TODAY just made me go WHATT.. We trade the best pitcher we had last year and kept a Pitcher who should of never been Signed in the First place.. Derek Lowe is older than Vasquez and we send him to the Stupid Yankees and we get Melky Cabrera ? ARE YOU SERIOUS?…..WOW way to waive the Last place and SUCKY flag Mr GM.. This man needs to be fired now.. seriously this team is junk now since he got his hands on this team he has destroyed it.. forget winning now isnt happening.. we rather save money and be like the nationals,pirates, orioles, marlins and the padres.. WOW what a sad day in the Braves History.. Smoltz and Glavine should be glad they werent a part of this team because Frank Wren is a Joke…

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Matt Diaz in RF??? In the NL? Are you serious?? Matt’s a stick, but he absolutely cannot field without a Mike Cameron-like coverage guy in center. Period. Neither McClouth nor Melky have the kind of speed that’ll make up for Diaz’s lack of speed and fielding skills. He’s in the wrong league. If he were in the AL, he’d be a monstrous DH hands down.

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This reminds me why I started yoga in the first place. I was angry. Angry and fat. Now, I am peaceful. And fat. And these Braves remind me of the 1986 squad.

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