5 questions about the Braves, a couple involving Soriano
Maybe it's just me, but I think they're going to miss this guy. (AJC photo by Bob Andres)
1. Why pay the same money to an older reliever who hasn’t had a save since undergoing Tommy John surgery in 2008? Billy Wagner is 38 and will make $7 million next season. Rafael Soriano will turn 30 this week and, after agreeing to re-up for a a year after being dealt to Tampa Bay, will earn $7 million in 2009. Soriano had 27 saves last season; Wagner had none. I don’t get this one at all.
2. Why offer arbitration to Soriano, whom they had no intention of keeping, and not offer it to Adam LaRoche, whom they need? I know there are issues of draft-pick compensation and, as ever, money — the Braves don’t want to pay LaRoche what his market value stands to be — but I don’t get this, either. The Braves want LaRoche to stick around for less money and bridge the gap to Freddie Freeman, whom they hope will be ready in 2011. But what if Ol’ Rochy gets a better (read: longer) deal someplace else? Who’s the first baseman then — Martin Prado? And who plays second base if Prado scoots over? (Not Kelly Johnson. He just got non-tendered.)
3. Why the utter desperation to trade Derek Lowe? No, he didn’t have the greatest of seasons, but he did win 15 games. Does one lesser season invalidate everything the Braves believed about Lowe 11 months ago? I understand the Braves need a big bat in the worst way, but is Lowe the only trade lever the Braves have? And doesn’t the appearance of being keen to unload a big-salaried guy serve to diminish the big-salaried guy’s value even more?
4. Doesn’t dumping Ryan Church prove Frank Wren messed up the Jeff Francoeur trade? That transaction wasn’t so much a swap as a divestiture. The Braves needed to cut the cord with Francoeur, who’d become an outsize presence — he didn’t produce much but was the most-discussed man on the roster. Imagine if Matt Diaz had replaced Francoeur as the starter in right field: That would have been the hot-button topic for weeks. When Diaz supplanted Church in right field, nobody said two words. The Braves didn’t really need a player in return; they just needed Francoeur to go somewhere else.
5. Does Wren have the worst instincts in the history of humankind? You know how it’s said that, when in doubt on a multiple-choice test, your first guess is apt to be correct? The Braves’ general manager gives lie to that. Last offseason he tried like crazy to land Jake Peavy, who won only nine games and worked 101 2/3 innings in 2009; tried to sign Rafael Furcal, who hit .269, and tried to sign Ken Griffey Jr., who hit .214. Well, the Braves were better off with Javier Vazquez, Yunel Escobar and Garret Anderson than any of the above. A year from now, we might well be saying, “You know, they should’ve just kept the closer they had.”
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238 comments Add your comment
JASon
December 14th, 2009
4:32 pm
Soriano screwed us over last season. He single-handedly cost us a wild card spot.
Think of how ridiculous the argument is that Soriano wasn’t well rested. He only pitches one inning a game!
Kenneth Simpson
December 14th, 2009
4:33 pm
The way Booby wears out the bullpen they are going to need all the relief pitchers they can get. He don’t know what it is like to let a pitcher pitch past the 6-7th inning or 100 pitches whichever comes first. I personally feel that Soriano faked being injured after he signed the 2 year contract but even with that I don’t think they have given him away for nothing. I don’t think they should have given away Frency for nothing either but at least they didn’t trade the farm like they did for Tex. I was a braves fan until that trade and now I don’t care to watch them. I haven’t been to a game since that trade and don’t plan to go to any either. That was indeed one of the most lopsided trades they ever pulled. They knew all along that they couldn’t keep him with the Yankees bottomless checkbook lurking in the background. They should try to sign LaRoche for one year and hopefully Freeman is ready by then. I am rooting for Heyward in 2010 to be the star outfielder he is projected to be and if he is they had better lock him up for a long time. You know the yankees already know about him and his potential.
Robert 1-U
December 14th, 2009
4:36 pm
You whine too much!!!
fsugolf
December 14th, 2009
4:39 pm
MB would it be so bad to have dye at 1st and cameron in the of hell even sign derosa to be a utility player
t_height
December 14th, 2009
4:54 pm
the braves are going to regret letting soriano go. how many pictures have come back after having this surgery and done good the next season. I guess mike hampton didn’t prove anything. The pitching wasn’t the issue last year, it was the hitting. Soriano could have been the set up man this year and Lowe the save man. LaRoche should be resigned, Brandon Jones could play the outfield. Garrett Anderson need to be the pinch hitter and go sign 1 power hitter and 1 lead off hitter or someone with speed. i’m not being racist or anything but i have noticed that colored people can’t last in this organization. 1 year and you are out. when the organization was mixed, the braves was always good.
George Holman
December 14th, 2009
4:59 pm
This guy seems to lock into one player and become totally fix on acquiring “his” guy. I don’t know, but some of his acquisitions were never made (thank goodness).
Pegg
December 14th, 2009
5:12 pm
This is a terrible 5 questions. Mark Bradley is like the Skip Bayless of the AJC. Please stop writing stupid columns.
James Smith
December 14th, 2009
5:13 pm
I think you’re wrong about Soriano. Sure he’s younger, but the decision made sense because we thought he’d get a long-term deal at money we did not want to pay. Additionally, he was less than stellar the last two months of the season. He lost four games in the last two months of the season which would have put us much closer in the wild card race (only 2 out at season’s end) and might have put much more pressure on the Rockies. Wagner, while 38 and coming off of Tommy John, still threw mid-90s and is a hall of famer. You can’t go back on the decision you made to make Wagner the closer and add Soriano back in the mix, the trade was the only move to make.
2. The problem with offering arbitration to LaRoche is that he would accept it and possibly stop any moves that we might make at first. If we’re not looking to deal for a first baseman, it might be a money move, or maybe you’re right, it just doesn’t make sense.
3. Derek Lowe was a terrible signing to begin with, and those 15 wins are about luck much more than anything. His numbers were so good in LA because they play in the grand canyon there and if you look at his three-year splits in LA you’ll know I’m right. If we can get his $15 million off the books for Damon Berryhill, you do it.
4. The Church for Frenchy deal was about dumping Jeff, plain and simple. He’s a crybaby, as shown by his AAA demotion the year before. If he sat on the pine, he’d be unhappy and possibly hurt the locker room. It was a good decision then and is still good now because we’d have to offer him arbitration and keep him another year.
5. I agree with Griffey and Furcal, but I think you’re wrong with Peavy. You can’t say he would have injured himself in ATL. Injuries, and performance for that matter, are not necessarily translated through teams. If you can get a true number one starter like Peavy, you get him. Just a reminder, the reason we did not make the deal was we did not want to trade Locke, whom is now a Pirate for the .250 leadoff hitter.
jfreak
December 14th, 2009
5:15 pm
Lets wait and see how the off season plays out before crowning or killing the GM. So far he’s done a pretty good job with a limited budget. I hope he can work out the LaRoche thing because we need his big bat, but I’m sure the GM is aware of that fact??? The Wagner move I like “if” he’s healthy because those “other two” guys scared me every time they came into the game. Sometimes they were great and sometimes the weren’t. Hopeully Wagner is healthy and can give us a couple of good years.
As far as the Braves overall team I can’t see them finishing better that 2nd or 3rd in the division unless they sign a really big bat. Chipper is still solid but past his prime and LaRoche is good but not great. Still have holes in the line up that teams with good pitching can expose. BIG BAT NEEDED?? Jason Bay would be nice but ….
I like the makeup of this team and with one or two good moves the Braves can contend?
Albie Lopez
December 14th, 2009
5:21 pm
Hey…bring me back! I’m a real innings eater and I am not 40 yet.
Tremaine
December 14th, 2009
6:18 pm
It doesn’t matter. The phillies got Halladay. It must be nice to be a fan of a team that tries to win the World Series every year rather than a team that tries to make people think they have a shot at making the playoffs in order to sale some tickets.
collegeballfan
December 14th, 2009
6:23 pm
Yeah, I just saw the news on Halladay to the Phillies. Damn!
bob
December 14th, 2009
6:25 pm
the time for wren to produce is now. last year he was a rookie. he was learning the strike zone. he hit a couple of singles and struck out a couple of times.
this year he made an error in not anticipating that soriano would accept the arb offer.
he must secure a power threat from the right side. no excuses.
if he fails to land the player, then 2010 will be another ‘close but no cigar’ year.
angels now look as though they need to trade for lowe.
i also like atkins from colorado as an addition.
Coach (2011 or Bust)
December 14th, 2009
7:10 pm
Frank Wren is what he is and 99 percent of the fans have yet to figure it out.
What is he? WAY IN OVER HIS HEAD.
Scott
December 14th, 2009
7:13 pm
I love the idea of having Wagner. He is a Hall of Fame closer who will be more exciting than Soriano to watch. However, Soriano was dominant for awhile and was almost untouchable then he started blowing saves and pitching poorly.
And why keep Laroche? You know he will hit around .180 or .200 in April and flounder in May. I would rather see Omar Infante at first than Laroche.
Kyle
December 14th, 2009
7:23 pm
The only way the move for Wagner makes sense to me is if there is some stud in the minor system who just needs another year or 2 at most to develop into a MLB ready closer. Otherwise the move seems stupid in every way. Second, i think re-signing Laroche would be a good idea, unless Chipper feels its time to make a move to 1st himself. The bullpen and rotation is stout, seems that there really is only a need for a boost of power in the lineup and that means ATL would have to drop the big bucks out and get Bay or Holliday or just be content re-signing Laroche and another 20-25 HR threat. But who knows what will happen, the Braves have been so unpredictable since they started this Championship slump.
Moo
December 14th, 2009
7:59 pm
Jesse Chavez is a better catch than most of you think.
Last season, his first full MLB season, he has a 4.01 ERA and 1.35 WHIP. He had interesting splits… he pitched against almost exactly the same number of RH hitters (146 plate appearances) as LH hitters (140). His numbers are dominant against lefties… .228 AVG and 1.19 WHIP against. But he actually struckout far more righties than lefties, 28 to 19.
The fact that he’s so strong against lefties, when RH pitchers are usually dominant against righties, is a good thing to see from a young reliever.
He’s got “future setup man” written all over him. Mark my words.
Moo.
Justin in NM
December 14th, 2009
8:11 pm
Kyle, read some on the Braves prospects – we have an outstanding closer in the making – I believe he’ll be in AA this year, maybe AAA. Pitched in AFL.
g.h
December 14th, 2009
8:16 pm
Hey Mark.. If you actually followed the Braves you would know who would play second in the event that Prado has to play first- it’s the guy Prado filled in for during injury, Omar Infante.
Nice research.
Justin in NM
December 14th, 2009
8:20 pm
Don’t forget about Brooks Conrad….
Stumpknocker
December 14th, 2009
9:03 pm
Conrad wasn’t one of Cox’s favorites. Seems that he did quite well when given the opportunity, however was relegated to a non-role soon afterward. Spending most of his career in the minors, I guess made him less likely to succeed in the majors….Go figure.
ugagolf8166
December 14th, 2009
9:12 pm
some get over it we arent going to have bay or holliday to much money we will have 2 of the 4 nady, dye, laroche, cameron and hopefully add derosa to for a hometown discount cuss me out but this will happen so be happy
tdmorgan
December 14th, 2009
9:15 pm
MB, that was a terrible article. Laroche has stated that he wants a 3 year 31 million contract…we would be overpaying. Laroche was amazing in the second half…just like every year but the first half of the year always leaves you wanting more. Wagner has been a dominant closer for years, he had to have TJ surgery so what how many other pitchers have come back and still been their same old selves or even better…almost all. Soriano has been a constant injury concern since he’s been here and he had teams talking to him but he was inpatient that’s the only reason he accepted. DLowe did win but his actual stats were horrible, its highly unlikely that he keeps winning like he did this year if he pitches the same way. And Francouer, ever since we rewarded McCann for his stellar performance and Frenchy wasn’t getting a similar contract he has gone down hill he needed a change of scenery and we swapped fringe outfielder for fringe outfielder. We don’t really need Church, especially at an increased rate next year.
gayle
December 14th, 2009
9:21 pm
With the Phillies and Mets restocking, everything appears to be geared towards contending in 2011 – by then, Freeman, Hanson et al will be ready to play and perhaps Chipper will either retire or relegate himself (voluntarily?) to coach/player. And most importantly, the relic will be gone from the dugout and hopefully the chop and memories of all those lost championships with him. It really will be a great opportunity for this team to start fresh and build a new identity – the one going on now is really getting old.
Justin in NM
December 14th, 2009
9:29 pm
Conrad was sent back to the minors when KJ came off the DL. Now that KJ is gone, time to give Conrad or Diorys Hernandez more playing time.
Mark Bradley
December 14th, 2009
9:55 pm
Apparently I didn’t make my point on No. 4 clearly enough: I agree that simply getting rid of Francoeur was the aim and that losing Church is no big deal. (So to speak.) See, I ask the question in something of a prosecutorial tone but answer it in a way favorable to Frank Wren. Don’t I?
Mark Bradley
December 14th, 2009
11:46 pm
Mark Bradley, you are a dumbass and a total douchebag
Jeff Walker
December 14th, 2009
11:49 pm
Bad instincts? Let’s just think about some things Wren has done. He had the guts to stare every Braves fan in the face and take the heat for cutting ties with 2 HOF pitchers, and that paid off ok. He turned a girlish 1B in Kotchman into Laroche who had a strong 2nd half. Kawakami has been a good value at less than $8M a year, not a huge salary for a sub-4 ERA. Have you forgotten about a trade involving an aging/declining Edgar Renteria that brought us JJ and Gorkys Hernandez (who later helped land Nate)? That was an unbelievable trade Wren made. Garret had good value at $2.5M, Soriano gets in funks where he gives up too many HRs, so i like Wagner with the lefty power hitters in the division. I also like the Chavez kid, he has good potential with that power arm. Oh and Wren got Vasquez for 4 avg prospects. So, I’m more than pleased with Wren. He has been put in some tough spots on a budget that doesn’t compare to the people we have to beat! So, get a clue before you question him like he is terrible!
Kelly's Johnson
December 14th, 2009
11:52 pm
Uncle Frank, will I at least get an invite to Spring Training?
Nostradamus
December 14th, 2009
11:56 pm
While the Phillies trade their best pitcher (Cliff Lee) for an obvious upgrade in Roy Halliday, look at their core hitters: Utley, Rollins & Howard. The Braves have NOBODY like those three in their lineup. Assuming the starting pitching holds up and the ancient bullpen isn’t torched by July, the Braves will finish in second place at best, all assuming they can still find a firstbaseman and outfielder that can hit above .250.
Mac
December 15th, 2009
2:49 am
We was thinking….leave Sonny Clusters alone! His are the most rational and best thoughts on this blog. He knows Dairy Queen too. Thanks for the humor, Sonny Clusters.
hop
December 15th, 2009
6:16 am
LaRoche is gone, with seattle getting a very good hitting first baseman.
so much for chipper begging the braves to sign him, oh well what does chipper know, as wren ask another stupid question.
the braves will once again finish behind the phillies and mets!
Elmer
December 15th, 2009
6:39 am
The 5 questions are what many of us have asked. LaRoche will be a big loss.
stew
December 15th, 2009
9:11 am
Now that Lowe has been shipped to the Angels, can we please extend Javy so that we have a rotation of Javy/JJ/Tommy/Huddy for the next four years and go to work on the offense? Promote Jason and Freddie and get El Caballo and we be set.
Justin from NM
December 15th, 2009
9:58 am
Jumping the gun a bit on LaRoche and Lowe, aren’t we boys?
Pendleton
December 15th, 2009
11:30 am
They should forget about paying through the nose for a hitter, and just get a good hitting coach! Oh, wait…
Answers to Bradley « Rowland's Office
December 15th, 2009
5:10 pm
[...] journalism, the braintrust | Leave a Comment The local organ columnist Mark Bradley recently posed five reasonable questions about Frankie’s offseason [...]
CTBRAVEFAN
January 3rd, 2010
12:36 am
I like the Vazquez deal it sets our pitching up nicely for 2012 or 2013. With the addition of Arodys Vizcaino. But I hope that there are still big plans to add a bat like say Dan Uggla and trade Cabrera for him.That way the Vazquez deal is more like 15 wins for 30 hr and then platoon Diaz and Heyward in right. I dont think that Diaz has the pop that the Braves need for an every day left fielder. I think that I would probably play Uggla in the outfield cause Prado did so well last year at 2nd. I think that if Gluas can find some way to stay healthy then that was a good move. That adds hopefully 20+ hr and i like the way that the bullpen is shaping up