After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?
Matt Ryan hasn’t had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection we’ve done, here’s one thing we haven’t tried: We haven’t yet compared/contrasted the Falcons’ newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:
• After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)
• Ryan’s passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vick’s passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryan’s career passer rating is 84.3. Vick’s career passer rating is 75.6.
• Ryan’s completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vick’s completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryan’s career completion percentage is 60.3. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.7.
• Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.
• Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.
• Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season — an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season — an average of 247.5 per game.
• Ryan’s team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vick’s team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.
Loading ...Even though the styles were dissimilar, there’s not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But it’s worth noting that we’re rating Ryan at a personal low — though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday — and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.
That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.
We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.
Note: I’m posting this now, but I’m not opening it for comments just yet. I’m flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If you’d like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.
In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available — a free trial! — and I will open this for commenting. Since I’m at 30,000 feet, I’ve got nowhere to go. But let’s keep it clean, shall we?
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706 comments Add your comment
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
Having a strong running game helps. So does playing in an offense that is identical to the one Ryan played in at Boston College.
Same blocking schemes.
Same pass protection terminology.
Pure genius on the part of offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey if you ask me.
http://www.bradenton.com/sports/story/1095561.html
Hey Mark….you think that may have played a part in the 2008 season at all? No?
Halsey
November 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
One stat we can feel safe about: Matt won’t get lazy after getting a contract extension and become more interested in a criminal hobby than he is in playing football.
Milburn Drysdale
November 23rd, 2009
4:24 pm
To hey sorry Falcons: Let me guess. You want Al Sharpton to take over for Blank, and JeesseJ to be the new coach.
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:25 pm
there once was a qb named ryan
who got thrown in the pan a fryan
when things went south
he said with his mouth
it ain’t cause i ain’t tryan
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:29 pm
there once was a guy named matt
who thought he had it down pat
said arthur the blank
matt in york you stank
no more in my limo you’ll be sat
Jim
November 23rd, 2009
4:29 pm
Vick would have learned the plays but he is too dumb to understand. If he threw to a 2nd or 3rd receiver it was because he couldn’t remember the order of the progressions.
WHY?
November 23rd, 2009
4:34 pm
I just don’t get it. MB just has to keep bringing up Vick to stir the pot and bring broke di@k tools and their hate from under their rocks.
Lazy journalism.
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:35 pm
there once was a guy with dreds
who got in dutch with the feds
seems dogs he was abusing
he found it amusing
till the feds said
dreds here’s your bed
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 23rd, 2009
4:38 pm
Should I remind “YOU” people that there are very few guarantees in life………
- Death
- Taxes
- Ryan CHOKING
I get tired of watching these one dimensional, slow foot, I can’t win without future Hall of Fame receivers & running backs. We have seen that forever – there is no creativity.
Now Vick on the otherhand, who needs a running back or receiver or offensive line for that matter – he has and will beat teams ALL BY HIS DAMN SELF, and I know that really bothers “YOU” people so bad
Vick will forever be the Falcons LEGEND, sorry guys, that’s the way it is. There are only a handful of athletes that have played for this sorry city: Mike Vick, Deion Sanders, Dominique Wilkins, Andruw Jones, Hank Aaron – the rest are just average and some like the CHOKE are just plain SORRY
MAD-DONNA
November 23rd, 2009
4:38 pm
Hey Mark, did you factor in attendance with those stats? No, no…wouldn’t be fair!
Biggest Falcon Fan Ever
November 23rd, 2009
4:39 pm
Who cares? Matt Ryan is our Quarterback and if you can’t support him and the rest of the Team, Then shut up. If you revisit this in 5 years and then compare the numbers.
Matt will carry this team to a Super Bowl, it will happen.
Jersey Girl Falcon Fan
November 23rd, 2009
4:47 pm
Really? This is the best you could come up with on a Monday morning after Elam lost us another game?
MAD-DONNA
November 23rd, 2009
4:47 pm
DawgBite
November 23rd, 2009
4:03 pm
Can’t we just talk about Michael Jenkins dropping the gift wrapped touchdown pass or Elam missing yet another critical chip shot?
Despite the struggles Matt Ryan has been having with interceptions in the red zone, he rarely seems to take us out of the game. With Vick, he never seemed to be able to get us back into the game (there’s a stat for you Bradley, see how the QBs stack up coming from behind). I don’t expect us to play mistake free, but if Falcons in general are having problems executing when we need it the most – it won’t matter who is better.
Man, what wrong wit yo I’s? Yeah, Jenkins is a bust, but Matty Melt throws A LOT of bad passes!
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 23rd, 2009
4:47 pm
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:35 pm
there once was a guy with dreds
who got in dutch with the feds
seems dogs he was abusing
he found it amusing
till the feds said
dreds here’s your bed
“Not bad – but check this out”
Under center, there is a fool called Choke;
Not NFL material, just the good ole boy Hope.
Dude’s so dumb, stayed in college for 5 years;
Was Vtech’s Biatch, all those brothas he played with fear.
Made him the new face, but his head was in his butt;
The boy is so stupid, even with college plays he sucked.
Surrounded by pro bowlers, he still can’t compete;
Brain made out of mush, a Noodle arm so weak.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
4:53 pm
Choke,I honestly can’t believe how stupid you are.
Gina
November 23rd, 2009
4:54 pm
I believe over the long haul, Ryan will prove to be the better quarterback. While Vick kept things interesting with all the scrambling, he wasn’t a good QB in the true sense of the position. What I’ve seen of his play this year in Philly, he just looks slow. Most QBs go through a sophomore slump, and I’m truly hoping that Ryan is smart enough and gifted enough to overcome his poor play this season. The defenses have a year and half of game tape on him now and are just scheming for his weaknesses. He now needs to find a new way to out think them. I just wish we could get that pesky no back to back winning seasons monkey off our back!
Bears Fan
November 23rd, 2009
4:55 pm
Matt Schaub a hall of famer? What planet? What makes Matt Schaub more special than any other quarterback?
The Bears have ran through some quarterbacks. Jay Cutler looked like a Hall of Famer in Denver, now how does he look?
I like Matt Ryan, but who knows what the future holds? He might end up like Peyton Manning, he might end up like, as someone posted earlier, David Carr.
As for Matt Schaub, please, take away Andre Johnson and what do you have?
Vick should have been a hall of famer, he had the talent, just not the drive. He got to egotisical. That still doesn’t take away what he did for the Falcons, nor does that take away the fact the he was a good quarterback.
The whole Matt Schaub-Mike Vick debate was nonsense, because the Mora-Knapp duo would have ruined whomever was quarterback. When a team goes from 6-2 and looking like Superbowl contenders to 8-8, thats all coaching.
Bears Fan
November 23rd, 2009
4:56 pm
If we had Mike Vick or Matt Ryan in the Superbowl in 2007, we would have won
Dr. Warren
November 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm
Ryan’s programmed answers in interviews belie his problem as a quarterback–he lacks the creativity of the great ones, the ability to find alternative receivers and to improvise in the pocket. Singular quarterbacks, like great artists, are not simply master students of form–they innovate form in some way.
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm
Matt, a good effort. best, willie
Scoots
November 23rd, 2009
4:57 pm
Vick was the most exciting player to wear a Falcons uniform. I was a bandwagon Falcons fan prior to his arrival, but I’ve been a die-hard since.
It was awful to me to see such great talent wasted, between his seemingly lax performance and attitude over his last year and a half with the Falcons and the legal troubles, jail, etc.
Back in ‘03 and ‘04 you just knew the guys was going to get us a Super Bowl win within the next couple years, but things fell off a cliff and it never happened.
After last year’s surprise, we felt the same thing going into this season. But the injuries have been rampant, and Matty’s hitting the Sophomore Slump. He’s clearly a little rattled over the last few games, but I think he’s going to pull through. This team is clearly not what we hoped it would be, but it’s still a good team and we’re bound to be great next season.
Keep the faith
pilgrim
November 23rd, 2009
4:58 pm
Ask receivers whom they would rather run routes for. Want to take a wild guess?
willie martinez
November 23rd, 2009
4:58 pm
there was a young man from nantucket
nah, said i wouldnt do that one.
drunk guy
November 23rd, 2009
4:59 pm
Anybody else notice Mike had a rather dark skin color- Matts skin is of a lighter hue. Should this be taken into account in a side by side?. Matt also makes lame tv adds .
Scrabcake
November 23rd, 2009
4:59 pm
This column is laughable. Vick, as immeasurably talented physically as he is, will always be an idiot. Ryan, though less physical, has much more mental capability than Vick’s entire lineage. Give me Ryan and the seasons to let him mature, than a simple few seasons of Vick scrambling before the other teams figured him out.
Nativebird
November 23rd, 2009
5:02 pm
To be fair, I think we’ll have to give Matty at least 6 years in the league. Anything could happen, but after two, yes, very comparable. after 4, 5 and 6? I’ll go out on a limb and predict Mr. Ryan will still be racking up the points (somewhere) in the NFL without any arrests, any Herpes lawsuits, any flip-offs to the fans, any Pot bottles, any Dog fighting rackets…and ANY 2 year jail sentences.
Call me crazy.
Scoots
November 23rd, 2009
5:03 pm
Mark – it’s time to start talking about Michael Jenkins. The guy seriously needs to learn how to catch. If not in the hands, where does he want it thrown to him?
Ron Mexico
November 23rd, 2009
5:06 pm
Mark is correct in using Michael’s stats prior to 2004. After that, they are MY stats. I’ve still got Mike locked up in my basement.
Dr. Warren
November 23rd, 2009
5:07 pm
Peter King named Jenkins his runner-up Goat of the Week.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
5:08 pm
drunk guy,
Did you ever here Vicks Air Tran radio spot? Simply horrible!
I loved Vick and could not wait to see him each week. BUT he SCREWED UP! Nuff said.
Oh, Dan Reeves…best coach Falcons ever had.
Ric Spratlin
November 23rd, 2009
5:09 pm
Instead of beating a dead Dog, i.e. Mike Vick. Let’s compare our midget DB’s to the rest of the leagues WR’s. Herein lies the BIGGEST issue with this years team. If we had a defense, Matt Ryan would be able to perform with Manning’s ability.
Halsey
November 23rd, 2009
5:10 pm
It’s not fair to compare Vick to Ryan anymore. Vick is a third string QB. Let’s compare him to John Parker Wilson. I’ll go with Wilson, personally.
bobo
November 23rd, 2009
5:11 pm
Watch Schaub tonight and see who the best Matt is. A great QB makes a great receiver even better. Ever since I’ve been traveling to Houston I’ve been able to watch Schaub. Poise and talent. I’m hoping Ryan can someday be as good.
Comparing anyone to Vick is ludicrous. He was unique. Really, no other pro QB was like him. As long as his speed was there,he would always be dangerous. But teams eventually figured out his weakness-no passing ability.
The Falcons, however, made a choice of going away from Schaub. Over time, that’s the comparison that makes the most sense. However, Vick still generates more press and interest,thus this blog.
Bill
November 23rd, 2009
5:15 pm
So, the AJC wants to stir the pot by bringing up Vick again (and again, and again). Is Mark Bradley the new Terrance Moore? Keep stirring the pot Mark. We won’t take you seriously any more either.
Rex Grossman
November 23rd, 2009
5:19 pm
Rex here. Have you seen my career?
WHY?
November 23rd, 2009
5:22 pm
Yo Bill,
Amen
TradeMark
November 23rd, 2009
5:23 pm
As has been mentioned before..the stats don’t lie, they are dead even…but I’m willing to bet Ryan will NOT be lying to his coaches, family and friends, murder a bunch of innocent dogs, make himself a national villain , embarrass the entire city, not to mention his team and the entire NFL, and then come back to make headlines more for his attempt for redemption than his actual playing skill.
Stephen
November 23rd, 2009
5:24 pm
Teams game planned to stop Vick; teams don’t game plan to stop Ryan like that, so week end and week out Vick probably had it tougher.
Vick had the ability to be a game changer, Ryan has the ability to be a game manager.
Vick had far superior physical talents with his arms and legs while Ryan is painfully lacking in this area.
Vick didn’t have the strong work ethic to pay attention to detail and preparation. Ryan is much stronger in this area.
So like Bradley said these 2 go about their play in different ways. However, right now at this stage of their pro careers Vick was the better player.
TazTurner
November 23rd, 2009
5:26 pm
Bottom line is what did Vick do when other teams figured out how to defend him? He did absolutely nothing. He only won 7 games. He couldn’t throw his way to a high school victory.. Vick was a scat back playing QB. Matt needs to calm down and trust his surrounding cast. Matt will still be in this league as a starting QB when Vick is playing in the Canadian league or jobless.. Vick had weapons, he just couldn’t throw the ball to them.
TradeMark
November 23rd, 2009
5:26 pm
Not to mention his own skit on SNL making fun of him, and Family Guy, et al….
BugKiller
November 23rd, 2009
5:29 pm
Here’s the ONLY real complaint I’ve EVER had with people who bash Ryan like “Choke” and his five other names and some of the others: They never use any factual information to do so.
They troll the blog calling him “Noodle Arm” and make other ridiculous claims about what he can and cannot do, when NFL coaches and experts say week after week how impressed they are with Ryan and how he can make EVERY throw in the book, and do so accurately.
Here are the facts: HE’S A SECOND YEAR QB.
As for his arm strength, there’s not a single QB in the league who can throw it harder than Vick, but does it matter? Vick couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn. What’s the use of arm strength without accuracy?
Matt Ryan has also taken receivers who performed poorly with Vick and made one a pro bowler and the other one much, much better, even if he still drops too many balls in key situations.
This year he’s made more mistakes, yes, but I think that has more to do with him trying to force the ball into Gonzalez too much, especially when he’s triple covered. If you look at the stats, you’ll see Gonzalez has been thrown to more than Roddy White. I think Tony’s HOF resume daunts Ryan a little bit. Also, objectively, Ryan HAS been skittish since the Dallas game when his line let him get hit about 15 times.
In the end, I understand that there are those out there who are Vick fans. Up until the moment he pleaded guilty, there was NO bigger Vick fan and Vick apologist on this planet than ME. I used to send Mike Florio s website, profootballtalk.com, emails daily cussing him out for the joy he was taking in Vick’s demise and remind him that Vick was innocent until proven guilty.
What I don’t understand is why these people blame the Falcons for what happened to Vick. Why the blame the Falcons for not waiting for Vick.
VICK DID EVERYTHING TO HIMSELF AND HE SCREWED THE TEAM, HIS TEAMMATES, AND THE FANS OVER.
And he did it with NO remorse. If you buy his remorse act now, there’s no help for you. Mike Vick is a man who is sorry he got caught, not sorry he did it. And yeah, it frustrates me and makes me angry to no end that his fans troll the Falcons board and hate on Matt Ryan for no reason whatsoever. The kid is going to be a GREAT QB. Everyone who knows anything about the NFL has been saying that for two years. But guys like “Choke” know better. I would hate to see how “Choke” would have treated Eli Manning, Super Bowl winning QB, here in Atlanta during his first two years when he was dreadful.
Here are the facts:
The Falcons have basically the same pieces on offense last year that they had when Vick was here in 2006, and EVERYONE was blaming the line and receivers for Vick’s trouble. Matt Ryan took those pieces that Vick finished 7-9 with and finished 11-5. AS A ROOKIE QB. That’s unheard of.
The Falcons the last two years have a worse DEFENSE than at any time with Vick under center. And yet, Ryan is still on schedule this season to do what Vick could never do: have back to back winning seasons.
So, to be honest, most all of the problems would go away if people like “Choke” stopped trolling the boards with the SOS about “noodle arms” and actually made some valid points. Even if they’re negative, have a reason to say them accept for your own personal prejudice against Ryan because his skin color. Racism is dirty from all directions, and should have no place anywhere.
BugKiller
November 23rd, 2009
5:30 pm
Please check the filter.
B
November 23rd, 2009
5:31 pm
Matt Ryan—-How many games threatening blackout???
Mike Vick—-0
marcus3x
November 23rd, 2009
5:33 pm
Funny to see no metion of rushing yards.
Bushwacker
November 23rd, 2009
5:34 pm
Say whatever you want but one thing is for sure,after the first 26 starts its good bet Ryan will not go 15-15 with 2 years in prison for the next 4 seasons!!!
uberVU - social comments
November 23rd, 2009
5:35 pm
Social comments and analytics for this post…
This post was mentioned on Twitter by MarkBradleyAJC: Comparing Matt Ryan to Michael Vick after 26 NFL starts. It’s pretty close. http://bit.ly/5haQjR…
Hugh G Rection
November 23rd, 2009
5:36 pm
Vick was the better player at this stage of his career. Then, he got himself thrown in jail for being a criminal and it went downhill fast. Now, he carries a clipboard on the sideline for Philly and hopes he’ll get into the game for 2 or 3 plays each game. Ryan isn’t flashy, doesn’t wear flat-billed hats or bling-bling. Chances are, Ryan won’t get thrown in jail for being a criminal either. Go figure.
BugKiller
November 23rd, 2009
5:39 pm
Here’s the ONLY real complaint I’ve EVER had with people who bash Ryan like “Choke” and his five other names and some of the others: They never use any factual information to do so.
They troll the blog calling him “Noodle Arm” and make other ridiculous claims about what he can and cannot do, when NFL coaches and experts say week after week how impressed they are with Ryan and how he can make EVERY throw in the book, and do so accurately.
Here are the facts: HE’S A SECOND YEAR QB.
As for his arm strength, there’s not a single QB in the league who can throw it harder than Vick, but does it matter? Vick couldn’t hit the broad side of the barn. What’s the use of arm strength without accuracy?
Matt Ryan has also taken receivers who performed poorly with Vick and made one a pro bowler and the other one much, much better, even if he still drops too many balls in key situations.
This year he’s made more mistakes, yes, but I think that has more to do with him trying to force the ball into Gonzalez too much, especially when he’s triple covered. If you look at the stats, you’ll see Gonzalez has been thrown to more than Roddy White. I think Tony’s HOF resume daunts Ryan a little bit. Also, objectively, Ryan HAS been skittish since the Dallas game when his line let him get hit about 15 times.
In the end, I understand that there are those out there who are Vick fans. Up until the moment he pleaded guilty, there was NO bigger Vick fan and Vick apologist on this planet than ME. I used to send Mike Florio s website, profootballtalk.com, emails daily cussing him out for the joy he was taking in Vick’s demise and remind him that Vick was innocent until proven guilty.
What I don’t understand is why these people blame the Falcons for what happened to Vick. Why the blame the Falcons for not waiting for Vick.
VICK DID EVERYTHING TO HIMSELF AND HE SCREWED THE TEAM, HIS TEAMMATES, AND THE FANS OVER.
And he did it with NO remorse. If you buy his remorse act now, there’s no help for you. Mike Vick is a man who is sorry he got caught, not sorry he did it. And yeah, it frustrates me and makes me angry to no end that his fans troll the Falcons board and hate on Matt Ryan for no reason whatsoever. The kid is going to be a GREAT QB. Everyone who knows anything about the NFL has been saying that for two years. But guys like “Choke” know better. I would hate to see how “Choke” would have treated Eli Manning, Super Bowl winning QB, here in Atlanta during his first two years when he was dreadful.
Here are the facts:
The Falcons have basically the same pieces on offense last year that they had when Vick was here in 2006, and EVERYONE was blaming the line and receivers for Vick’s trouble. Matt Ryan took those pieces that Vick finished 7-9 with and finished 11-5. AS A ROOKIE QB. That’s unheard of.
The Falcons the last two years have a worse DEFENSE than at any time with Vick under center. And yet, Ryan is still on schedule this season to do what Vick could never do: have back to back winning seasons.
So, to be honest, most all of the problems would go away if people like “Choke” stopped trolling the boards with the SOS about “noodle arms” and actually made some valid points. Even if they’re negative, have a reason to say them accept for your own personal prejudice against Ryan because his skin color. Racism is dirty from all directions, and should have no place anywhere!
BugKiller
November 23rd, 2009
5:39 pm
Please, check the FILTER.
Mary Wanna
November 23rd, 2009
5:47 pm
BRADLEY, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME WITH THIS STUPID ARTICLE. NOW I’M CONVINCED TERENCE MOORE IS THE CHOKE TROLL.