After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?
Matt Ryan hasn’t had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection we’ve done, here’s one thing we haven’t tried: We haven’t yet compared/contrasted the Falcons’ newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:
• After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)
• Ryan’s passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vick’s passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryan’s career passer rating is 84.3. Vick’s career passer rating is 75.6.
• Ryan’s completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vick’s completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryan’s career completion percentage is 60.3. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.7.
• Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.
• Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.
• Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season — an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season — an average of 247.5 per game.
• Ryan’s team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vick’s team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.
Loading ...Even though the styles were dissimilar, there’s not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But it’s worth noting that we’re rating Ryan at a personal low — though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday — and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.
That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.
We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.
Note: I’m posting this now, but I’m not opening it for comments just yet. I’m flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If you’d like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.
In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available — a free trial! — and I will open this for commenting. Since I’m at 30,000 feet, I’ve got nowhere to go. But let’s keep it clean, shall we?
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706 comments Add your comment
Fair and Balanced
November 23rd, 2009
2:50 pm
Ummmm Gotech610…..Matt didn’t find a way to win…34 is greater than 31…and guess who had the 34? It wasn’t Matt’s team.
da roosta
November 23rd, 2009
2:53 pm
Please move on. Lay it to rest. Hopefully, December 7th, we can move on. Vick is no longer here. If you are a Falcon supporter, then support who you have now. Vick put himself in the position he is in now. Blame him and thank him for what he has done on and off the field. Quit stirring it up!
GoTech610
November 23rd, 2009
2:53 pm
Fair and balanced,
So Matt Ryan can help that Michael Jenkins dropped a perfect pass wide open in the endzone, or Jason Elam missing a field goal that would have won the game had he made, right?
Because the rest of the team didn’t do their part they lost. Matt Ryan did his part and as a QB that was a way to win. Not in points, but in work. Matt did his job, the other knuckleheads cost him the game. And yeah…him…The rest of the team needs to act like they want to win. Matt can’t on his own.
Receiver’s dropping wide open passes is ridiculous.
So yeah, fair and balanced, Matt did win the game.
SnuffySmith
November 23rd, 2009
2:55 pm
The real comparisons should be Farve, Ryan and Schaub. Those are the three qbs who came through the Falcons system who all had hall of fame talent. Unfortunately only two out of those three will actually make it to the hall (Farve and Ryan). Schaub wont get in because he wasted his most formative years carrying the clipboard for a thief (Vick) who robbed Schaub of a hall of fame career.
GoTech610
November 23rd, 2009
2:56 pm
fair and balance,
Matt did his part. He got the game tying TD drive and other points during the game. The other parts of the team failed. Not to say that Matt didn’t some failures in the first half, but he came out the second half a different player and it was the only reason the Falcons even had a chance. So yeah, Matt won.
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
2:58 pm
Again, who was the starting running back in 2002? How many yards did he have that season? Who were the starting receivers? Who on the offensive line got drafted in the first round??
chemdawg
November 23rd, 2009
2:59 pm
Why Brad?… But if I must: 1) How long do running backs last in the NFL? 2) How long do quarterbacks last in the NFL?… A starting running back goes down every week in the NFL because of the hits he takes. It will be statistically telling to revisit the stat sheet 5-6 years from now when Vick’s legs will be totally spent (aren’t they already? He already broke his ankle once already). It’s ok if your running back sits out a few games a year but not your quarterback.
Sporty Black
November 23rd, 2009
3:00 pm
It’s interesting that people keep commenting on Ryan’s 1st year in league starting vs Vick’s 3rd year in League starting. Remember that Ryan played 4 years in college. Vick pnly played 2 years in college. So they were about same age when they STARTED in the NFL and same amount ot TOTAL experience.
Nod still goes to Vick. Remember, NFL stands for “Not For Long” if you can’t win. “The great thing about being knocked down is that you have the opportunity to get up.” – Ali. Well Ryan is up, though still a little woozy. I haven’t given up on Ryan yet… Let’s Go Falcons!
Vick Looks good on the bench
November 23rd, 2009
3:02 pm
Who cares anymore? Vick is a wanna be on the bench now, and Matt Ryan has a ton of potential. Just think if he had Roddy White, Tony Gonzales and a Third Option that didn’t drop big Passes??
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
3:02 pm
Najeh referenced the Samkon Gado game of 2005. The Falcons were 6-2 at that point in the season after having gone 11-5 the year before. Jim Mora looked like the greatest coach in Falcons history — not counting Marion Campbell, of course. Then the Packers, who were bad that year, came to town and Gado, of whom nobody had ever heard, ran wild. The Falcons lost that day and would finish 8-8 and out of the playoffs. I think of Samkon Gado as the guy who undid Jim Mora.
donaldo
November 23rd, 2009
3:03 pm
Remember the debate over Montana vs Young. What did history show?
History might be repeating itself in front of our eyes, as long as you eyes are wide open.
Green Tea
November 23rd, 2009
3:04 pm
Didn’t Gado blow up like two weeks before he faced the Falcons?? Pretty sure I’d heard of him a few weeks before he ran all over the Falconis
I like to think of Vick
November 23rd, 2009
3:07 pm
as the guy who “undid” Mora…
LYNN CAIN
November 23rd, 2009
3:09 pm
Lets just keep it simple; as long as the Falcons have a terrible defense, Matt Ryan will be average.
He doesn’t have Elway, Marino, Rothlesburger, P. Manning type talent………. enough talent to carry a bad team on your back…….. Vick did
Will Ryan be a great quarterback…. Yes, whenever they get the defense fixed!
Dump The Chump
November 23rd, 2009
3:09 pm
Fair and balanced,
So Matt Ryan can help that Michael Jenkins dropped a perfect pass wide open in the endzone, or Jason Elam missing a field goal that would have won the game had he made, right?
Because the rest of the team didn’t do their part they lost. Matt Ryan did his part and as a QB that was a way to win. Not in points, but in work. Matt did his job, the other knuckleheads cost him the game. And yeah…him…The rest of the team needs to act like they want to win. Matt can’t on his own.
Receiver’s dropping wide open passes is ridiculous.
So yeah, fair and balanced, Matt did win the game.
——
Dude thanks for ignoring the fact that my fumble before half-time led to a touchdown. It wasn’t my fault, if that idiot kicker made his kicks and friggin Michael Jenkins catches the ball we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
I am young and still learning. I really appreciate your support and sticking your neck out for me. We need to stick together. falcons need to stick together. Stick to the script people. All this cricism is not helping.
See you at the dome this week. Matty Ice era. no huddle from start to finish.
Ice ice baby!!!!!!!!!!!
You are the fan of the day. Here are some smiley faces specially for you. I luv you.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
3:11 pm
“Receiver’s dropping wide open passes is ridiculous.
So yeah, fair and balanced, Matt did win the game.”
I wish everyone looked at things this way — if they did, Vick’s career winning percentage would be about .900.
Ryan
November 23rd, 2009
3:13 pm
Everyone comparing the teams around these two players is ignoring the defense these two QB’s played with. Ryan has a much better offensive supporting cast, but Vick had a much better defense – Roughly 16th in the league (2002 and 2004 – the two main seasons we are comparing) vs 26th for Ryan. Doubt Vick’s record would have been the same with Ryan’s defense just as Ryan’s numbers would’t be as good with Vick’s supporting offensive cast.
As for the comment about HOF – Schaub would not have made the HOF regardless – he gets hurt way to much. So far this year has has been better, but I would imagine he will miss significant time again in the next few years. If he proves that he is past his injury bug then you can open up that conversation. Vick we’ll never know since his off-the-field decisions eliminated three prime years as a starter. He also missed a reasonable amount of time due to injury. Ryan it is way to early to start talking about HOF. One bright spot thus far is through his college career and current pro career he does not seem to be very susceptible to injury.
DeathFromAbove
November 23rd, 2009
3:13 pm
I REALLY wish the AJC would stop even covering Vick…all you do is stir up the worst.
SamInAtlanta
November 23rd, 2009
3:17 pm
One important question is which qb had the best off-line…since Ryan is more pass minded he would need a better line and more time to be a better passer whereas Vick could just take off and run.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
3:17 pm
I disagree. I think today’s discussion has been conducted on a fairly high plain. Not much name-calling — some, but no more than you’d expect — and only six comments warranting removal out of 320. I’m actually impressed.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
3:18 pm
I think Samkon Gado had a couple of pretty good games after he played the Falcons. But I don’t remember much before that.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
3:20 pm
And one other thing: Vick came along at a time when the Falcons needed someone to energize the fan base, and he absolutely did that; Ryan arrived when a calming presence was required after the upheaval of 2007, and he provided that, too. The comparison doesn’t need to be a zero-sum game.
Dukester9
November 23rd, 2009
3:21 pm
Mark Bradley my opinion doesnt matter. I want to congratulate you for having the guts enough to write this topic. So many people want to sweep anything under the rug that doesnt fit the way there opinion swing. But sir it is your job to invoke the facts of the case. And i just want to congratulate you because i see so many remarks of how “stupid the atlanta writers are” when you dont speak to there interest. But a good journalists job is not to take sides on a issue but show the facts and then you are allowed to give your opinion. Kudos man.
Chris Broe
November 23rd, 2009
3:24 pm
I’m proud of my Falcons for the squeaker yesterday. I would have gone for two as time ran out, and won the game, but that’s me. With Vick, we could have easily made those two points.
Ryan is a great Q!
Look at Mora’s sad sack year with Seattle. Nobody undid Mora, he’s his own worst enemy. Hey, Mora, why don’t you see if throwing the challenge flag more times will help?
How many miracles is Petyon Manning going to win with this year? I wouldn’t have believed either of the last two Colt victories if it was a hollywood script, I’d have said, “I’m sure. Booo!! You stink Steven Spielberg!”
Dukester9
November 23rd, 2009
3:25 pm
Enter your comments here
LYNN CAIN
November 23rd, 2009
3:27 pm
Warrick Dunn and T.J Duckeet’s career were extended by Vick’s bootleg/bootleg action. Defenses keyed on Vick allowing the other two to pick up yardage.
I am still waiting for a defense of the sorry receivers, or the sorry receiver play during the Vick era; Oh yeah thats right ,they couldnt catch the ball because Vick’s ball spun in the opposite direction because he was a lefty. Yeah thats it.
I have one more question, and keep in mind, I love the Falcons and Ryan, but I do find it strange that when Ryan sails one of his passes to the right, or drives one into the ground, his accuracy is never questioned (and it happens often), but if Vick did the same thing; “Mike Vick has a strong arm, but he needs to be more accurate”
I don’t know just thinking out loud.
yo mama
November 23rd, 2009
3:28 pm
so, i think you left out that ryan still is in the hunt for having back to back winning seasons, a feat vick never accomplished and most likely wont get a shot at in Philly. Ryan has also sported a team with a defense ranked at the bottom, when vick had a better option in 02, 04. in addition, i think you need to compare the pass attempts, ryan i know for sure has thrown many times. you also left off points scored. vick teams hardly ever hit 30 points, in ryans rookie year, his offense outscored any of vicks teams or best years head to head. and that was when he was a rookie. what i am saying is ryan slings it more, and therefore he has opportunities for more picks. he is also getting alot of drops like vick.
Dukester9
November 23rd, 2009
3:29 pm
Ok Mark i cant resist here is my opinion. First stop it with all the “Jenkins missed a pass” stuff. He missed them with Vick. Stop it with Elam missing field goals “2 words Jay Feely”. Look folks we all know the reason we lost yesterday. There QB out played ours, Manning made a couple big throws down the field that our QB didnt and i dont believe he can because of the arm strength issue. And shut about the defense we have never had a defense to keep us in games. Bottom line is we need our franchise QB to carry us and win the game. If Ryans strong point is passing look at his record when throwing more than 40 attempts a game. 0-6 i rest my case.
Steve Bartkowski
November 23rd, 2009
3:30 pm
Vick can run, but thats what running backs are for. If the QB goes down to injury, as Vick did early in his career, the team’s season can be ruined. This is a team sport, and the QB that can play is better than the one on the sideline.
Also, the QB that sits in jail for a couple of seasons not only can’t help the team, but ends up hurting the team even more than if he were just injured. I hope Vick’s troubles are behind him, but comparing Vick and Ryan’s service as a quarterback for the Falcons is easy. Vick damn near destroyed the franchise, Ryan has shown he can be as effective, and certainly has greater upside potential than Vick. The great quarterbacks usually take 4 or 5 years to develop.
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm
Gee Mark, how long is it gonna take you to look up the starting RB and starting receivers in 2002? Who was the 1700 yard rushing back in 2002 for the Falcons?? What was his name? What probowl receivers played for the Falcons in 2002? Who? How can you compare QBs and not actually mention the supporting cast of players? How? How can you not even mention the schemes, the O-line, the level of experience between Vick and Ryan when they came into the league? Did Vick play in the same scheme he played at Virginia Tech? Did Ryan play in the same scheme he played in at Boston College? Why is this not part of the consideration when doing a comparison?
DrJ
November 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm
Vick gave us some of the most exciting football ever. He was like a shooting star!
Once the teams dedicated a “spy” for him, things started to change. In my mind it was the game in Philly. I don’t think he was the same after that. He could run like a deer, but in the NFL running QB’s are NFL.
Ron Roberts
November 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm
The key difference is simple… we’re not going to be biting our nails in the off-season HOPING our QB isn’t on trial for anything that’ll put him behind bars. Much like Green Bay always had to wonder IF Brett Favre would be in camp, so did the Falcons’ ownership, late in his tenure. Ask Green Bay if that was a distraction for ‘em.
In Matt Ryan, we get the sure knowledge, each off-season, that he’ll be in camp, he’ll be spending extra hours watching film and learning more and more plays. Before, we could never gaurantee our QB was going to be free, going to learn more of the playbook (coaching coddled him and watered it down – let’s be honest), and more impkortantly, be an exemplary role model citizen.
We ALL know why there are fans still rallying to support the Michael Vick era. Why this one position is so important to whatever their cause is – it’s beyond me. In fact, I’d find it insulting to players on the team in other positions who they could (and should) be equally as fanatical about, performance-wise. That’s the beginning and end of it, right there.
Matt Ryan has outpaced Peyton Manning, thus far in his career, and look where Peyton is. Michael VIck didn’t PROgress; he REgressed. Enough said.
Navigator
November 23rd, 2009
3:35 pm
This whole blog disgust me and low life’s that dreamed it up. The crazy discussion around MVick and MSchaub drove Schaub out of town and I read the stupid remarks about this ability and the Falcons wanting to dis him to make Vick feel better. Now he’s being considered around the league as being one of the best. We wouldn’t have even needed Ryan if he hadn’t wanted to be anywhere but Atlanta, and repeats what another QB named Favre who also wanted out. So now the stupid bloggers want to talk about the second year QB Ryan. The AJC, Falcons and many of their fans totally disgust me with their stupid talk.
J
November 23rd, 2009
3:38 pm
I find it ironic people like to compare MV’s and MR’s interception numbers and say MV is the better QB, but look at the fumble numbers I think Vick’s fumble numbers catches him up and over Ryan in turn overs. I always hated how he ran with the ball in one hand held out for the world to see and the defenders to take away.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
3:41 pm
I did look it up. And I posted the names and stats.
Rodster
November 23rd, 2009
3:42 pm
It’s Ryan hands down for now and the future. Vick was an exciting player but not the QB around which you build the franchise.
War Jacket
November 23rd, 2009
3:43 pm
Gotta say that MV7 renewed my interrest in pro football. It had grown stale for me with all the 40+ passing attemtps per game. Mike brought the running game back in focus and he did things that I have never seen a pro QB do, before or since. Heck I even went out and bought a falcons t-shirt for the first time since the Gritz Blitz days. But the wheels fell off and a sign that there is a God, Matty ice showed up.
The comparison, as it is set up, is unfair. Let’s compare Matt’s numbers after four years in the league with MV7 on a prorated basis. I think you will find that there is no comparison, Matty Ice might just be a future hall of famer, and they will doing film snippets about MV7 ten years from now, with a “what could have been” theme.
Mike "Ron Mexico" Vick
November 23rd, 2009
3:48 pm
Some dude named Matt “Choke” Ryan blamed Ryan for “fumbling” when he was sacked from the blind side. Only a racist or ignorant knuckle head would blame the QB. Which is Matt “Choke” Ryan?
Pot Shot
November 23rd, 2009
3:50 pm
Attaboy Bradley, keep it stirred up!
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
3:51 pm
So Bradley, Dunn & Duckett combined couldn’t produce more than Michael Turner by himself?? And Vick still threw for almost 3,000 yards with Brian Finneran as the #1 receiver??? And you want to compare? Admit it, there is a quota of some sort to have a “Vick themed” blog every week isn’t there…just has to be it.
'tever
November 23rd, 2009
3:53 pm
The one thing that no one seems to factor in here is the effect of the Bird. The Bird is evil. The Bird will grant brief flashes of brilliance only if they are followed by extensive periods of mediocrity. The Bird will always send Eugene Robinson to a ho and Bobby Petrino to a hog. The Bird will give us Brett Favre, but only for his drunken youth. Maybe the Bird is the city or maybe it’s the Falcons, I don’t know, but I do know that you could only fairly compare the two if you were somehow able to take the Bird out of the equation.
Shane
November 23rd, 2009
3:58 pm
Mike Vick was the king of fumbling when he played. I think he averaged one a game.
Either way the question is moot. Ryan is a young QB with a long career in front of him as the Falcons franchise QB
Mike Vick will tote a cilpboard for a few more years then retire.
Case closed.
cdog
November 23rd, 2009
4:02 pm
BOTH ARE GOOD IN THEIR OWN WAY. NEITHER IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER. YOU CAN’T COMPARE THEM.I WANT TO KNOW WHO’S BETTER JASON ELAM OR MORTON ANDERSON?
NT
November 23rd, 2009
4:02 pm
choke, you’re such an idiot… mike vick gets 3 snaps max a game for the eagles. they use him on gimmick plays, then right back on the bench. i guess thats why they are in the driver seat.
DawgBite
November 23rd, 2009
4:03 pm
Can’t we just talk about Michael Jenkins dropping the gift wrapped touchdown pass or Elam missing yet another critical chip shot?
Despite the struggles Matt Ryan has been having with interceptions in the red zone, he rarely seems to take us out of the game. With Vick, he never seemed to be able to get us back into the game (there’s a stat for you Bradley, see how the QBs stack up coming from behind). I don’t expect us to play mistake free, but if Falcons in general are having problems executing when we need it the most – it won’t matter who is better.
The Boss
November 23rd, 2009
4:08 pm
Bradley- What a dumba$$ topic. Who freekin cares about Vick. The only reason you wrote this piece of junk was to get all the thugs stimulated and let the racism take over on both sides of this old and tired topic. Seriously, give your position more effort in the future.
Falcon Obit
November 23rd, 2009
4:12 pm
“We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.”
So what was the point exactly? This subject just came to mind all of a sudden and you thought in Week 10 it would be a great topic? Suuuuuuure.
Jason Elam has left the building
November 23rd, 2009
4:13 pm
Is it true that the Falcons are holding tryouts for a kicker ?..If so, can you tell me if it’s true .
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
4:14 pm
Atlanta’s pass-protection terminology and blocking schemes are the same as Ryan had as a BC senior, so right away he knew such technical elements as whether the tight end or the running back would pick up a stray blitzer. That allows him to immediately identify his hot receiver.
http://www.cardinalsportal.com/news/young-man-s-game-.php?act=print
popeye
November 23rd, 2009
4:20 pm
There is no comparison even though the number are comparable that’s where the similarity ends.
Vick was the most feared competitor on the planet. Coaches lost sleep over finding ways to stop him. Vick took possibly the worst NFL franchise in sports history and made them a threat to win on any given Sunday. Without Vick the Falcons were a Joke. Vick beat you with his Arm and his legs. He never had and offensive line worth mentioning, nor a receiver that could (1. get separation 2. catch the dang ball) to throw to. He had to run to save his own neck and his accuracy suffered in the process. Vick could not by himself lift such a horrible ranchise to back to back winning season. That’s a franchise problem not a Vick problem. He could barely stay healthy playing with such poor talent around him. If Vick had half the talent around him as Matt Ryan has today this team would be a “Dynasty”. Take off the rose colored glasses and you will see that Matt is the biggest liability on the offense each week. I like Matt Ryan and I think he is a good young player but he only possesses average skills. The success he had last year rest at the feet of Michael Turner, the hands of Roddy White and the collective play of the offensive line. I’m just keeping it real. Vick was a horse and we rode him as far as we could. He eventually out ran his usefulness.
-Vick is a Pro Bowler (No question)
-Vick packed the house (it’s all about the Benjamin’s)
-Inspired the Changed in team logo (Entrepreneurship)
-Had the number one selling jersey in the NFL (Fame and Popularity on a National level)
-Had countless high light reels of his performances (Talent up the wazu)
-No barbershop discussion was complete without No.7
-Not only did he make money for the Falcons he made money for the NFL, Delta, Nike….. ….(you get the picture)
Vick was Money, shame on the Franchise for not building a team around him for a New England like dynasty. Matt is a struggling young QB who is smart but has an average arm, below average foot speed, and average talent overall, with better team talent than Vick ever had. If we ever succeed and have back to back winning seasons you will try to credit Matt Ryan but “Real Fans” not just “Falcon Fans” can see it’s because of better total team talent, coach Smith, and the GM TD and not Matt. It’s been 26 games now and show me one where our opponents are loosing sleep over MR. No one is saying he is scary good. You can put your rose colored glasses back on now, and keep lying about Ryan. I like him 2.