After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?
Matt Ryan hasn’t had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection we’ve done, here’s one thing we haven’t tried: We haven’t yet compared/contrasted the Falcons’ newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:
• After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)
• Ryan’s passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vick’s passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryan’s career passer rating is 84.3. Vick’s career passer rating is 75.6.
• Ryan’s completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vick’s completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryan’s career completion percentage is 60.3. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.7.
• Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.
• Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.
• Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season — an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season — an average of 247.5 per game.
• Ryan’s team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vick’s team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.
Loading ...Even though the styles were dissimilar, there’s not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But it’s worth noting that we’re rating Ryan at a personal low — though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday — and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.
That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.
We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.
Note: I’m posting this now, but I’m not opening it for comments just yet. I’m flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If you’d like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.
In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available — a free trial! — and I will open this for commenting. Since I’m at 30,000 feet, I’ve got nowhere to go. But let’s keep it clean, shall we?
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706 comments Add your comment
PMC
November 23rd, 2009
11:27 am
Yawn. Ryan cannot and will never be able to do what Michael Vick did with his legs. So far only one human ever could do what he did that’s why he was paid like he was. He was unbelievable. If circumstances were different and things had worked out Vick would have been and all time great but it was not to be. Michael Vick was special and unfortunately he was also especially stupid so he’s not hear anymore.
I’m tired of this crap.
Just compare them in college. Michael Vick was an unreal playmaker. Matt Ryan at his best will never do any of the things Michael Vick did well… that doesn’t mean Matt won’t eventually be able to be a very very very good QB. Ryan does all the little mental things well wheras Vick was unparalled physically.
Wink
November 23rd, 2009
11:27 am
Mark, you kinda screwed this comparison from the beginning. The raw numbers comparison was suppose to be for the first 26 games of each quarterback. To be frank, I rush through the post. But adding the season ending totals to Vick vs Ryan 26 games is not a fair comparison. We do not know if Ryan numbers will get better or worst. You did not provide the true stats for Vick thru 26 games in some instances. He could have had good stats or bad thru 26 games, but when you add season stats, it messes up the 26 game comparison. So I don’t know who was better after 26 games based on information provided.
I can say Ryan stats currently show him not as good as he was last year. You state Vicks last 30 game he was 15 – 15 which has nothing to do with the topic. Same for Ryan losing 4 of last 5 games.
Why don’t we just let Ryan have his career in Atlanta & Vick have his back up role for Philly and leave it at that. This is a pointless comparison. We need Ryan to be as Ryan of last year. The confident, accurate, good decision making Matty Ice, Ryan. We as fans know that Vick won a playoff game & Ryan has not. I only care that he gets us to the playoffs and win when he gets there.
MV7
November 23rd, 2009
11:27 am
Hi, it’s Mike, y’know? Have you seen my career?
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:29 am
That’s another issue for another day: What would Vick have been like if he hadn’t been given Greg Knapp’s offense in 2004?
I’ve said this many times, but here it is again: Falcons people who saw Vick in offseason workouts under Petrino were raving about him. And Petrino himself told one staffer the 2007 Falcons would average 30 points a game with Vick.
PMC
November 23rd, 2009
11:29 am
FOr the record, Mike was perfect for the Raiders style vertical offense and that’s more of what DR ran before he was fired.
Then Gregg Knapp was inexplicably hired and they ruined the entire system.
Gregg Knapp(Jim Mora) may be the dumbest coaches in the NFL.
PMC
November 23rd, 2009
11:30 am
We’re rehashing 7 years of arguments and revisionist history is worthless.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:33 am
We’re not indulging in revisionist history. I haven’t changed either man’s wins to losses or interceptions to touchdowns. These are the numbers, for better or wose.
AndyC
November 23rd, 2009
11:33 am
It’s very difficult to compare these QB’s because they are so different. I don’t think the numbers mean a whole lot. Really what it comes down to is the won-loss records and the playoff records. In that comparison there is little difference expect for Vick’s playoff record. He deserves a lot of credit for that win in Green Bay. I still like Ryan’s long term prospects in the league. I never thought Vick had a long-term future in the league because once the wheels went he was going to be in trouble. I think we are seeing some of that this season.
Ted
November 23rd, 2009
11:33 am
Yesterday’s game…right after the giants missed their field goal the falcons had the ball 2nd and 7 and Ryan scrambled and slid 2 yards short when he could have easily got the first down with a dive. Then an incomplete pass, a punt and the giants drive for an easy TD. Had Ryan made that 1st down the whole game may have been different, probably would have been different.
Reid Adair
November 23rd, 2009
11:33 am
Mark, I think this “comparison” deserves a huge asterisk simply because, as you generously stated, it took four years for Michael Vick to have two seasons in the NFL. Vick did not start the entire season his first year in the league.
As others have pointed out, Vick’s passing abilities were far below those of Ryan. Throw out the ratings. Vick would scramble around until someone got open, or he would just sling it as far as he could and hope someone ran under it. There were no timing routes, and there was very little touch on the ball. Over the long haul, Ryan will have far superior passing numbers for the Falcons.
I was like you, Mark. I enjoyed watching Vick play. He was a superior athlete, and the threat of taking off and running with it gave most defenses a challenge. However, there were teams who had Vick figured out (the Tampa Bay Buccaneers come to mind as one prime example). At the same time, many fans knew that he was never going to be a great passer in the NFL.
It is also important, as you noted, Mark, to remember that the team went in the tank after the success of 2004. 15-15 for 2005-2006. Arthur Blank gave him that incredibly generous contract in December of 2004, and it was – in hindsight – all over. It was a disaster, and Vick quickly destroyed all of the hope that fans had built based on 2004.
I will finish with this. I firmly believe Ryan will lead this team to at least four wins in the remaining six games, and that will make him the ONLY quarterback in Falcons’ history to have back-to-back winning seasons. And that will be in his actual first two seasons as an NFL starter.
GunnerPeterson
November 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
PMC: You are on the money. Vick was incredible but he had off the field problems AND he was lazy in that he would not commit himself to become great. Vick had all the talents and skills of a hall of fame qb. Vick would never develop those skills. Vick was fighting dogs when he should have been honing and improving his skills. Vick could have become as great as Donovan McNabb or even greater. Vick had a strong arm and was fairly accurate, but should have improved his accuracy with fervent practice. Vick made a handful of incredible throws, but not thousands of great throws like Brett Farve or Peyton Manning. Vick could have become one of the all-time greats but settled for being the greatest running quarterback of all time. As you said, Vicks accomplishments are in the past. When Vick was at his highest moment (defeating Green Bay in the playoffs); Vick flicked his bic better than anybody had ever seen.
The_Dawgfather
November 23rd, 2009
11:34 am
It’s apples and oranges. You can’t compare the two with any relative meaning. Two different teams. Two different QB’s. Two different support structures. Vick was a threat with his feet only. Give Ryan another 2 years to develop and you’ll see a large gap between the two.
billy bob from cobb
November 23rd, 2009
11:37 am
Mike was the coach killer while Matt is a team player. Would be interesting to ask the players from both time periods who would they rather play with. Mr. blank has enough brains to realize which one was a cancer
The Truth Hurts
November 23rd, 2009
11:38 am
Mick Vick who?? no one misses that dog killer…Ryan is so much more of a classy quarterback with leadership qualities…vick was a gang thug with limited talent…good riddance Dog Killer!!
Atlanta Bob
November 23rd, 2009
11:38 am
I’ll leave the stats comparisons to the number geeks but I will note this…..if we can’t get better offensive line protection for Ryan, we better start looking for a Vick-like player to run when the walls come caving in on passing plays. Seriously now, Ryan was so harried against the Giants yesterday I don’t think he even had time to breath much less throw a pass. But to his credit, he remained poised and did well considering the pressure – hey look Ma, no picks this game! For reals though, Falcons need some help on that O-line (and don’t even get me started about our secondary….looks like Dimitroff is gonna have a busy off-season filling these holes).
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:40 am
Actually, Vick didn’t get Dan Reeves fired. Vick getting hurt and not being able to play got Dan Reeves fired.
As for Mora … well, that was never going to work for long. And it didn’t.
PatTabler
November 23rd, 2009
11:41 am
There is ALREADY a TON of separation between Vick and Ryan. Ryan was the Rookie of the Year. Vick was the Bust of the Century.
Vanlear
November 23rd, 2009
11:43 am
The problem with Ryan is not really his fault. The media and the Falcon’s organization pushed him as the “greatest”…when in truth…he is just pretty good. He isnot that mobile eventhough he is young and is totally ineffective when pushed out of the pocket or hurried. He throws to a spot and does not have the arm strength to drill a receiver down field who has broken off his route. Atlas, if the play called does not work…the play is over for Ryan. He then s gets frustrated and starts to panic in the pocket and locks in on his receivers. He has gotten into a bad habit of throwing into double or triple coverage over the last several games….Although Vick wasnt as accurate sometimes…he rarely threw the ball where it was not supposed to go or forced throws. He would pull it down and run…rather than kill a drive with an INT.
In the longrun, we have no choice…Ryan is it for us…however, he is not great and he is not ready to be handed the keys to the Benz yet. He cant win a game by himself when everyone knows we are primarily passing. He needs a supporting cast ( run game) to set up play action for him. Thus, if we are behind in games..it is unlikely he can bring the team back with his passing decisions consistently.
If I had to choice….the proof is in the pudding…there has never benn an energy around the Falcons since Vick, Prime time or the ‘98 season….it just does not feel the same. Vick won playoff games…..Ryan has not. Ultimately that is how you measure the winnner…not just by stats.
PMC
November 23rd, 2009
11:43 am
Sorry Mark, I should have said history. I know you haven’t written this before… but this feels like a thousand year old discussion.
Perfect Option
November 23rd, 2009
11:44 am
I give thanks for having this week off so that I can look at GT highlights…this is for GT fans..got to take a look at 2nd half highlights of 08 Tech UGA game. If that doesn’t fire you up nothing will!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJPTYTswPCI
Mr. Obvious
November 23rd, 2009
11:44 am
Mike Vick (aka “Coach Killa”) would’ve gotten Mike Mularkey and Mike Smith fired.
Frankly, a finger-pointing buffoon like Vick would’ve eventually gotten Vince Lombardi fired.
dagnabit
November 23rd, 2009
11:45 am
How many dogs has Ryan hung? Has Ryan hung any dogs? I apologize for getting off the topic.
Bears Fan
November 23rd, 2009
11:45 am
Jay Cutler is a coach killer. Mike Shanahan was his first victim, Lovie Smith is his next.
how2fish
November 23rd, 2009
11:45 am
26 games in I give Mr.Vick a slight nod….the next 10 years Mr.Ryan without doubt…we will be a better football team with him as we go forward.and I’m afraid there is a very good chance Mr.Vick is out of football next year..hope I’m wrong about that but he is way out on a skinny limb at the moment.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:46 am
That could well be true, VanLear. (You’re not from Van Lear, Ky., are you?) Ryan might not be Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:46 am
I don’t remember Vick pointing many fingers. (Except the one that one time to the crowd.)
tim
November 23rd, 2009
11:47 am
Ohhh……there’s a big difference between Vick and Ryan. One is the lowest form of life dog killer and the other has his act together.
CPJ rocks
November 23rd, 2009
11:48 am
reminds me when Chan Gailey and Mora were the two finalists for the Dolphins jobs and somebody on ESPN said why does it have to be between those two and apparently Miami owner agreed and here came someone else. Why does it have to be between Vick or Ryan? Hell, go get Vinny Testarverde off the golf course like the Panthers did if you cannot fine someone else to step in
ohmy
November 23rd, 2009
11:49 am
Vick was the show, and the rest of the “team” and all the rest of us bought into that–games were Mike’s to win or lose. Ryan needs a team around him (as do all good QBs) to be successful. The whole offense needs to do a better job. This defense has done just about the best it could, and in at least two games, has given the offense the opportunity to win the game and the offense has blown it. We could have been 7-3. We will be 9-7 and happy for it–at least I will be and Matt Ryan will be part of the reason. This is not our year but next year…look out.
gdg73
November 23rd, 2009
11:52 am
Great article MArk. Arthur Blank should have never fired Dan Reeves. What he should have done was stripped the GM duties from him and hired one (Not Rich McKay either). He compounded that mistake by hiring Jim Mora. Vick benefited from Reeves’ tough love and the results showed on the field. The guy was 11-6-1 under Reeves and getting better as a passer. Blank fired this man because he wanted to put his mark on the franchise and get his guy in there. So much for that.
Lest we forget
November 23rd, 2009
11:53 am
Ted, Ryan also hit A. Jenkins in the hands with a sure TD pass. That makes two games the Falcons could have won this year if Jenkins makes the sure catch.
An Observation
November 23rd, 2009
11:53 am
This is a VERY STUPID article but I’ve come to expect this type of writing from the AJC sports writers. It’s a shame that the AJC can’t consistently do better than what we’re getting as sports journalist.
Jamaaliver
November 23rd, 2009
11:53 am
Kudos on today’s topic Mark. One of the more intriguing.
Might want to consider one comparing Mora vs. Mike Smith at some point also. I’d like to see how they stack up after two seasons.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:54 am
That’s a great point, Ohmy. There was an element of Let-Michael-Do-It to those Falcons. But that was inevitable. Vick came out of college with the biggest buzz around him of anybody in a decade.
MightyQuinn
November 23rd, 2009
11:56 am
In the final analysis, to the Ryan haters it won’t matter if the Falcons win out all the way to the Supper, er, Super Bowl and take home the Lombardi Trophy this year, it will be IN SPITE of Matt Ryan and never, ever because of him. I have no interest in reading anything they write now, not because they are negative about Ryan (and he certainly has deserved some criticism), but because they are monotonous, meanspirited, moronic, and malodorous. They bring nothing new to the table everytime this topic rears its ugly head.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:56 am
That’s a good idea, Jamaliver. And it’s intriguing to note that Mora was one game better than Smith after 26 regular-season games. But I suspect Smith will do better over the next 26.
MR
November 23rd, 2009
11:57 am
Who cares? MV is not part of this team now and never will be again. What a waist of time and energy and you people go right along with it. MB, let the MV fanatics crawl back in their hole. All you are doing is stirring the pot as usual. Nothing journalistic about your article as usual. MV is a non story but you keep the fire burning. What a joke. As I said before the AJC Sports section is now no more than a tabloid rag. The departure of Furman was the last connection to sports journalism.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
11:57 am
We’re about to shut down the wireless on the plane. I’m leaving the comments open. Please don’t disappoint me now. You folks have been doing well, and I appreciate it.
Mike Vick
November 23rd, 2009
11:59 am
Can you all go a week without mentioning my name??? I see I’m still keeping the lights on at the AJC!!
Matt "Choke" Ryan
November 23rd, 2009
12:00 pm
IRONY CHECK:
- Falcons made the CHOKE the “New Face” Franchise qb
- Falcons cut Vick
- Eagles sign Vick
- Falcons struggling
- Eagles in driving seat both division & wildcard in sight
- Falcons vs Eagles to determine Falcons season
Just think of the irony. That run by Vick of 35 yards was so fast, I didn’t think it was even 35 yards until the announcers stated it.
The Eagles have handled Vick just right, easing him along, letting him get his legs back. Last night showed his legs are 90 percent back and in 2 weeks, they will be just where he wants to be.
Remember the Minnesota game in 2002?
Remember the Carolina game in 2004?
Interesting Irony……………..
The biggest Irony perhaps will be when he enters the game in the dome, and gets a standing ovation.
Who wants to bet that Andy Reid has promised Vick that he will give him a high dose of plays, because Reid understands how Vick was handled when he played here and the way he was cut.
It’s going to be very interesting…………….
three jack
November 23rd, 2009
12:00 pm
The more appropriate comparison is between Ryan and Joe Flacco:
Matt Ryan 3-10 when attempting over 30 passes including postseason
Joe Flacco 2-8 when attempting over 30 passes including postseason
MR 84.3 QB rating
JF 84.1 QB rating
Both are 16-10 as starters
So far, pretty even. I would still prefer Flacco just because of his arm strength.
Bravesfan
November 23rd, 2009
12:00 pm
I don’t understand how people can say Ryan is struggling; after his last season standards were set so high that whenever he throws an interception we call it a struggle. Its only his second season in the NFL. The score against Giants would have been different if Jekins had caught the TD. Jekins also dropped a first down catch against Dallas in the red zone.
Only thing I can criticize about Ryan this yr is that he doesn’t look for anyone else except for Gonzales. A lot of his interceptions have come when he tries to force the ball to TG. Like yesterday but luckily Tuck dropped the ball…
That leaves Vick and Ryan comparison, Vick can’t pass consistently and I am not sure if he was ganna win a Super Bowl without that.
Ted
November 23rd, 2009
12:00 pm
lest we forget – yup that was a sure TD drop but they happen. Ryan’s slide was a decision, a bad decision in a must win game with the D already playing poorly.
heath
November 23rd, 2009
12:01 pm
oh hell… Bradley is stepping out. LET THE THUNDERDOME BEGIN!!!!
Pop
November 23rd, 2009
12:01 pm
Until Matty-Ice wins a playoff game…STOP with the comparisons! Who cares about stats!!
Casual Falcons Fan
November 23rd, 2009
12:01 pm
One thing I’ll say, it’s been more interesting than the old days at Fulton County Stadium with the Dutchman and Leman Bennett, Dan Henning, etc. I recall seeing Archie Manning warming up one afternoon, and then getting the crap knocked out of him back when the Saints were the Aints. Of course, back in those days, the Braves stunk too, so we natives went to see the visiting teams put on showcases, anyway…back to the more recent history…
I think a couple of posts have nailed it….Vick breaks his leg…Blank gets impatient….Reeves makes an ultimatum…..Little Jimmy Mora talks a good game…..Little Jimmy runs his mouth….enter Bobby Petrino….Vick’s past catches up with him….Bobby does the “Pig Sooey”….enter Smitty and Ryan….we’re on a good path….and we’ll always have folks in town who miss Bill Clinton, who believe OJ was framed and who believe Vick walks on water.
Bears Fan
November 23rd, 2009
12:03 pm
In this week of Thanksgiving, all of you Falcon fans out there should be thankful that there was a pro bowl quarterback in the recent past and a pro bowl quarterback in the near future. Mike was the past, Matt is the future.
gdg73
November 23rd, 2009
12:03 pm
Van Lear, you hit the nail on the head. Ryan has been force fed down everyone’s throat as the “greatest” when he really hasn’t accomplished anything. The organization and media (local not you Mark, lol) should share much of the blame. Now that his star has dimmed, the organization and the same local media is back-peddling with comments like “he’s young” or “its a process”.
heath
November 23rd, 2009
12:04 pm
Thanks for the reminder Bears Fan. As far as Cutler goes, my condolences…
All I'm Saying Is...
November 23rd, 2009
12:04 pm
Bradley: Thanks for posting this blog. Might make some folks appreciate MV7 during his first two years as compared to Ryan. Almost makes up for your apologist blog on Ryan where you praised him for playing well in the second half of the Giants game—not sure but maybe you noticed he played well in the second half of the Panthers game too but football is a 60 minute game and the first half matters as well. You appear incapable of simply stating Ryan must play better and do so over the entire game to give our team its best chance of winning. I think Ryan will get better but I do wish people like you would be more frank in your assessment of this guy instead of picking out trivial things to praise him for or blaming others for his slump since the 49ers game.
Anyway, the bottom line is that Arthur Blank made a dumb move in firing Dan Reeves and compounded his mistake by hiring Jim Mora, who was always over his head. As some may recall, we could have hired a number of other coaches instead of Jimmy—some who did poorly i.e. Romeo Crennell and some who did well Lovie Smith.
Arthur’s error led to the creation of an atmosphere that caused an offensive scheme to be deployed that didn’t fit MV by a lousy offensive coordinator (Knapp) which included the notion of undersized offensive lineman being the way to go because the Broncos were successful (never mind they had better lineman).
Further, Arthur’s error led to a coach Mora being in charge who wanted to be a friend to his players instead of their boss which is why MV was never held accountable for his actions (nor was MeAngelo).
Did MV likely lose his mind a bit when he signed that huge deal? Yes. Who was responsible for bestowing that deal on him so early in his career without fully investigating what he did in his spare time? Arthur Blank.
People always like to blame players. Funny how the person where the buck stops never gets any blame.
LET’S GO FALCONS!