After 26 NFL starts, how does Ryan compare to Vick?
Matt Ryan hasn’t had the sunniest of sophomore seasons. His team is 5-5. He threw 10 interceptions in a five-game span. His team has lost four of its past five. But with all the dissection we’ve done, here’s one thing we haven’t tried: We haven’t yet compared/contrasted the Falcons’ newest franchise quarterback with their previous franchise quarterback. Here goes:
• After 26 regular-season starts, Ryan is 16-10. After 26 regular-season starts, Michael Vick was 16-9-1. (Note: Owing to his apprenticeship behind Chris Chandler in 2001 and his broken leg in 2003, Vick needed four seasons to make 26 starts.)
• Ryan’s passer rating in his second season as a pro is 80.0. Vick’s passer rating in his second season as a pro was 81.6. Ryan’s career passer rating is 84.3. Vick’s career passer rating is 75.6.
• Ryan’s completion percentage in his second NFL season is 59.3. Vick’s completion percentage in his second NFL season was 54.9. Ryan’s career completion percentage is 60.3. Vick’s career completion percentage is 53.7.
• Ryan has thrown 12 interceptions through 10 games of his second NFL season. Vick threw eight in his second NFL season. Ryan has thrown 16 touchdown passes in those same 10 games. Vick threw 16 touchdown passes in 15 games in his second NFL season.
• Ryan has fumbled three times in his second NFL season, his team losing two. Vick fumbled nine times in his second NFL season, his team losing six.
• Ryan has accounted for 2,324 yards (passing and rushing) through 10 games of his second NFL season — an average of 232.4 yards per game. Vick accounted for 3,713 yards in his second NFL season — an average of 247.5 per game.
• Ryan’s team lost his first playoff start, which came in Phoenix in his first NFL season. Vick’s team won his first playoff start, which came in Green Bay in his second NFL season.
Loading ...Even though the styles were dissimilar, there’s not a lot of difference between the raw numbers at this point in the two careers. But it’s worth noting that we’re rating Ryan at a personal low — though he did have a big second half in Giants Stadium on Sunday — and Vick after 26 NFL starts was among the most feared players in the league.
That 26th start came in Week 5 of the 2004 regular season. The Falcons would finish 11-5 and beat the Rams in a playoff game and reach the NFC title game. But that was the end of Vick as a winning quarterback. He was 15-15 over his final 30 games as a Falcon, and his last NFL start came Dec. 31, 2006. This year he has accounted for 67 yards, more than half of them coming on one run against the Bears on Sunday night.
We can compare/contrast Ryan to Vick as young players, and you can make the case that Vick was slightly better. (Though not as a rookie; he started only two games in 2001.) But we cannot compare the Ryan of 2009 to the Vick of 2009 because there’s no comparison. One is the starting quarterback. The other is a backup.
Note: I’m posting this now, but I’m not opening it for comments just yet. I’m flying back from Newark, and I know from the hour I spent over dinner with D. Orlando Ledbetter last night how quickly matters can deteriorate on here. So I want to be able to monitor the comments. If you’d like to leave one, check back early in the afternoon. In the interim, feel free to vote in our poll.
In-flight update: Delta flight 2011 has wireless available — a free trial! — and I will open this for commenting. Since I’m at 30,000 feet, I’ve got nowhere to go. But let’s keep it clean, shall we?
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706 comments Add your comment
AB
November 23rd, 2009
7:33 pm
Jimmy, He’s a friggin idiot and a racist (let’s not leave out Choke/VS2
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
7:33 pm
Diggums D Athlete…”He just went out and played street football and won games.. You can’t adjust to that at all.. You can only wait for him to make a stupid mistake costing the game..”…..ain’t that the truth! And that’s why people paid $80-$200 dollars a game just to watch it! LOL You can’t adjust to somebody who is playing on natural raw instinct, you gotta hope you can catch him.
Willy
November 23rd, 2009
7:35 pm
Some guy earlier said something about best QB in franchise history. I’d like to see how Bartkowski compares in his first 26.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
7:36 pm
VS, are you gonna answer my question?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
7:40 pm
Vick was 20 when he entered the league, with a year and a half of college experience in an option-style system. Ryan was 23 when he entered the league, with three years of college experience in not only a pro-style system, but the exact same system into which he entered with the Falcons. The amount of experience each player had at the time of their drafting is like night and day. Vick beat Favre at Lambeau at age 22. Ryan was still in college at age 22. Comparing Ryan’s second season to Vick’s second season makes zero sense.
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
7:43 pm
Diggums D Athlete
November 23rd, 2009
7:31 pm
HEY I’m not a Ryan hater Jimmy!
I think he’s a decent talent.. I just dont see any raw potential.. specially now that I know he has a whole offensive playbook that he trained with for 5 years.. In fact I expect Ryan to take them to the playoffs.. But again there’s that big lack of potential thing..
Link Report this comment
And that is precisely why it doesn’t make sense to make the comparison unless you give the readers ALL THE INFORMATION. Did Mr. Bradley point out that in Vick’s first full season starting that the combined rushing of Dunn and Duckett was still 300 yards LESS than what Michael Turner put up last season? Do you know who the #1 receiver was in 2002? It was Brian Finneran…..think about that….Finneran has never been a #1 receiver in his damn life, he’s a possession receiver, he is nobody’s deep threat. The Falcons never drafted a O-lineman in the first round from 2002 to 2006, but low and behold they decided to invest in Sam Baker to protect Matt. As good as Alge was, lets not get it twisted, ….the Falcons went and GOT a first ballot Hall of Famer as the security blanket for Matt! Matt did not have the weight of the franchise on his shoulders – not even close. Turner carried the rock to the tune of 1700 yards. So if Bradley wants to compare..lay it ALL out on the table, don’t get cute and just put up select numbers and think everybody will fall for the okie-doke.
JSS
November 23rd, 2009
7:48 pm
Jimmy, and this not said in a personal manner. Ryan’s other comparison measures are strangely two you don’t truly want to throw on table if you’re a Falcon fan. Guess who? They are one Dan Marino and Tom Brady! Don’t believe me, go look it up. It doesn’t make me a Ryan hater, I’m just making an observation…
falcon21
November 23rd, 2009
7:49 pm
Fan or no fan of Vick, it doesn’t matter, we all know Vick will never be a starting QB in the NFL again. CFL maybe but not the NFL. Question at hand, better QB is Ryan hands down, better athlete is a no brainer, Vick. I was and still am a fan of Vick and wish him luck but Ryan is our QB and will be for a long time.
Old Dawg 3
November 23rd, 2009
7:51 pm
Last year was the best year of Matt Ryan’s career?What?One thing about it,Falcon fans don’t have to worry about him quitting on them.
Julian
November 23rd, 2009
7:52 pm
Unfair comparison. Vick had amuch better Defense during his time in Atanta, but Ryan has a better RB in Michael Turner, better O-Line, and receving corps. Roddy White was not the top 10 NFL WR when vick was there. He and Michael Jenkins dropped way to many passes. And id take Tony Gonzalez over Algae Crumpler any day of the week. Vick’s scrambling was more exciting to watch though…..
I'm Melting...
November 23rd, 2009
7:52 pm
MV7 was a one man show. With Ryan, you don’t get people standing up out of their seats everytime he touches the ball. With MV7 it was more like a human highlight film (no disrespect Dominique). The win in Green Bay in the playoffs (against Farve), the Overtime win against the Vikings with MV7 running 46 yards for the win…this is the stuff that legends are made of and why people can’t stop talking about MV7. There is no comparison, because MV7 did not have a coach or a team around him, he carried ATL on his back. I must commend Mr. Bradley on a good article. I would take MV7 and a sold out and filled to capacity Dome in every game.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
7:57 pm
Choke, on and on and on,,,how many playoff games has Matty Choke won??? NONE
Choke on Saturday, It doesn’t matter how many playoffs you win, just how many you go to!
Choke/VS2 VS why don’t you guys get married, cause your two (peas) in a pod.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:02 pm
Vick was 20 when he was drafted out of college, from a college-style option system where he was coached to take off running after making one or two reads. Ryan was 23 when he was drafted out of college, from a pro-style system that used the exact same play calls that he used in the pros from day one. At age 22, Vick’s Falcons beat the Packers at Lambeau Field. At age 22, Ryan was in college. At age 24, Vick was in the NFC Championship Game. Ryan is currently age 24, and although many things can happen between now and January, the NFC Championship Game looks like a long shot. Comparing one guy’s second season to the other guy’s second season makes no sense… the way Bradley does it, by comparing one guy after 26 starts to the other guy after 26 starts is a lot more reasonable.
Sorry if this is a re-post, but I think this post got eaten the first time I posted it.
Old Dawg 3
November 23rd, 2009
8:03 pm
If we are gettin torched rushing 4 guys at the qb,lets create some pressure using the linebackers and db’s.They must be bored back there.Certainly look and act bored.Hey #23 that was your man.Hey man,I just got my nails done.I gits paid whether I check him or not.Seriously,lets blitz a little more than we do.What would it hurt?
JSS
November 23rd, 2009
8:03 pm
For Willy…
Bartkowski’s First two years… Those were really bad football teams…
1975 and 1976 4-10
Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles
G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost
1976 Atlanta Falcons 5 – 57 120 47.5 677 5.6 2 9 18 150 39.5 8 -10 -1.3 1 – –
1975 Atlanta Falcons 11 – 115 255 45.1 1,662 6.5 13 15 19 197 59.3 14 15 1.1 2 – –
AB
November 23rd, 2009
8:06 pm
davenpoop,
Who’s fault is it Vick bolted early?
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
8:09 pm
MUCH better defense? So I guess nfl.com is lying again. For some reason they have the Falcons defense of 2002 ranked #19 allowing 19.1 points a game, but the 2008 Falcons defense is ranked #24 allowing 20.3 points a game…..yeah that’s a world of difference right there…that 2002 defense was practically the Ravens defense of 2001!!!! Yeah, that 2002 defense was world beaters!!!
Dont fall for the okey-doke people…dont let these folks come in here hollering that Vick benefitted from a much better defense when the 2008 defense allowed a whooping .8 points more per game than the one in 2002.
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
8:11 pm
AB
November 23rd, 2009
8:06 pm
davenpoop,
Who’s fault is it Vick bolted early?
Link Report this comment
whose fault is it that Ryan was a 5th year senior?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:11 pm
I don’t blame anyone but Vick for putting himself in a position to get arrested and go to jail, although I do think the damage would have been minimized considerably if he had good lawyers working for him.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
8:11 pm
THe first couple of years Bart was a drunk and a whore dog. He will admit to that.
He was born again and turned his life around. Better QB. Happy feet and all, he had the best arm I’ve ever seen.
Fan since 1998
jack
November 23rd, 2009
8:12 pm
No one seemed to notice that the Falcons scored EVERY TIME Ryan got the ball in the second half against a very good Giants defense. 3 touchdowns and a field goal (a dropped pass that Jenkins should have caught).
Ryan is a VERY good quarterback on an average team. The only way this comparison makes sense is after Ryan has had FOUR years the way Vick did in your comparison. Four years is an
eternity in the NFL.
After 2012, no one will be making this comparison. Ryan will be one of the leagues best quarterbacks and we’ll be glad we have him.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
8:14 pm
Real American,
He was a red shirt, numb nut.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:15 pm
Oh, you’re talking about him leaving college early… why is that anyone’s “fault”? Ask Matt Leinart whether staying in college is a good idea if you are the projected #1 overall pick. I’m just stating the obvious, that it doesn’t make sense to compare a 21-year-old second year player with minimal experience in a pro-style offense to a 24-year-old second year player with about as much experience in a pro-style offense as possible. It is perfectly fair to expect more out of a more experienced, older Matt Ryan in his 2nd year than an inexperienced, younger Vick in his 2nd year.
Ed10
November 23rd, 2009
8:16 pm
At the end of the day Ryan is no Vick! In this situation, Vick was his own worst enemy. Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand and unfortunately Vick did not have any competent people in his circle. (family included)
pilgrim
November 23rd, 2009
8:17 pm
Roddy White’s poor play was blamed on Vick’s improvization.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:18 pm
And I think I’m being pretty fair in this regard. Vick sat in his first year as a starter, so counting the number of NFL starts under his belt discounts his first season where he sat on the bench. Ryan sat in his first year in college, and correspondingly I’m only crediting him with three years of college experience. Three years of experience in a pro style offense, logically, should have you a lot more prepared for being an NFL quarterback than a year and a half in a college style offense.
MAD-DONNA
November 23rd, 2009
8:19 pm
BugKiller, will you please limit your comments to one paragraph? Talk about blog-overkill!
JSS
November 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm
Jack…
A very good Giants defense?
Excuse me, but isn’t this the Big Blue defense (especially their patchwork secondary) that had been shredded to piece the last 4 straight losses?
I’m sorry, but that one is just not true…
Old Dawg 3
November 23rd, 2009
8:21 pm
We are just fans.Ask the experts about who they would rather have at qb. Someone mentioned earlier Crumpler went to a pro bowl because of Mike. WHAT? What does that validate?Ask Crump who he would rather have at qb. I think the experts prefer…. RYAN. Vick was gonna get our wr’s run outta town.With Ryan they have prospered on the field and off.White and Jenkins would probably be in the poorhouse if not for Ryan.Or starring for another team.Gonzalez definitely would be here.Come on dudes and duddetes.Lets get behind our team and do OUR part as fans to push them to success.Yes,we as fans have an obgligation too.We are part of the franchise,a major part.Instead of criticizing let’s ask,”What can we do to help.”
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
8:23 pm
AB…and what does that matter? He was still a 5th year SENIOR – so what’s your point?? A 5th year Senior who was playing in the same offense his rookie season in the NFL. You want to pretend like that’s not true?
JSS
November 23rd, 2009
8:26 pm
Very true Ed10… Well said!!!
thunderbull56
November 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
A.The best D@#! thing that ever happened to the Falcons ;The Smiths sell the team!The next best thing that ever,ever happened to a bird of prey, was Mikey eating stupid pills and breaking into jail.J Mora Sr. was spot on, when he was quoted as saying Mikey was a coach killer! Gimme 8,10,15 years of Matty,the rest of you’all can kiss my mother@@#$ing grits! Unless you have been in say, the south pacific, it’s kinda hard not to notice the current men in charge weeelll, seem to have a clue.Worst trade of new regime, Gonzalez.Here’s hoping some MLB team needs a Chippa in a future “Hall of Famer Kinda Way”.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:27 pm
“Someone mentioned earlier Crumpler went to a pro bowl because of Mike. WHAT? What does that validate?”
It validates the same thing that is validated when Ryan fans credit him with Roddy White’s success. Just as White has had his best years with Ryan, Crumpler had his best years with Vick. If you are going to use that line of reasoning with one player, it only makes sense to use it with every player.
“I think the experts prefer…. RYAN.”
The experts also preferred the Steelers and Bengals to win yesterday. The experts also had a hard time deciding between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf on draft day in 1998. The experts also voted Anthony Thomas the rookie of the year in 2001 over fellow rookie running back LaDainian Tomlinson.
“White and Jenkins would probably be in the poorhouse if not for Ryan.”
Jenkins is going to be in the poor house after this season when he gets cut. He is just as bad with Ryan as he was with Harrington or Vick. Funny how the magic Matt Ryan touch only extends to White and not to Jenkins, huh? Maybe White’s success has something to do with natural development that all players undergo?
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:30 pm
“J Mora Sr. was spot on, when he was quoted as saying Mikey was a coach killer! ”
If Mike Vick is a coach killer, Matt Hasselbeck must be a serial coach terrorist. Anyone seen the Seattle Seahawks this year? With more or less the same core players, that team made the Super Bowl in 2005. Jim Mora Sr. was a terrible coach who kept Peyton Manning from postseason success. Jim Mora Jr. is worse and kept Michael Vick from fulfilling his potential.
pilgrim
November 23rd, 2009
8:34 pm
Something for you statistics people: After 26 games compare ball distribution – number of catches per different receivers.
Lebo
November 23rd, 2009
8:37 pm
Seems to me like if the Falcons had an accurate place kicker and better defense against the pass, their record would be just a tad better than it. I can’t see how comparing wins by each QB is fair as this is supposed to be a TEAM sport and wins and losses come from the entire team. That being said, it will be interesting to watch Matt over a period of time to see if he develops. MV was exciting, there is no doubt about it. Just an analogy, but how about the salesman who makes the big quick sales versus the guy who plods along but building customer loyalty which pays off big time in the long run. Only time will tell.
TCCB
November 23rd, 2009
8:42 pm
THE HUNT IN ON; ATLANTA NEEDS:
1 A NEW COACH!!!!!!!
2 A NEW KICKER!!!!!!!!!!!
3 A NEW QUARTER BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BECAUSE THE FALCONS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
Real American
November 23rd, 2009
8:46 pm
Dayum, keep dropping that truth Najeh Davenpoop….they cant handle the truth, but drop it anyway.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:49 pm
“Seems to me like if the Falcons had an accurate place kicker and better defense against the pass, their record would be just a tad better than it.”
True, and if Vick’s Falcons had a better coaching staff and better offensive and defensive lines, they would have had a better record too. QBs in general get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose. Ryan has played like sh*t recently, including the first half of yesterday’s game, but he certainly lived up to his draft status in the 4th quarter.
Once "Recent" Reader
November 23rd, 2009
8:53 pm
I really enjoy/enjoyed watching them both!!! No doubt NO ONE was as frightening a QB outside of the pocket (and sometimes inside of the pocket 2!!) as Mike Vick. No doubt Ryan will never come close to matching that . . . and will sometimes look plain old ugly when he does run. The overall stats seem very similar as has been noted already. It’s been tougher this year . . . . could be Ryan is playing more tentatively . . . .could be the tougher teams and particularly teams with some tough D’s on the schedule are showing Falcs for what they are . . .a good . . .and hopefully improving team! They are what they are right now. I’ll continue to root and be optimistic for the QB the Falcs currently have . . . and also root that MV gets another good opportunity!!
lamac66
November 23rd, 2009
8:54 pm
I’ll say it again bloggers and Ryan apologists, you will never hear the last of M. Vick until the second coming at least get’s to an NFC championship game. The AJC will never let you forget Vick either!! Get used to it.
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
8:56 pm
The Giants were No. 1 in the NFL in total defense going into Sunday’s game.
Old Dawg 3
November 23rd, 2009
8:56 pm
The experts are not always right but they are right about this.They say dont be the man that follows the man.Dont worry Ryan.Mike was not the man.YOU BE’S THAT DUDE!!!! YOU DA MAN!!! WHO DAT? YOU DAT BABY BROTHER!!!! As I said before,I am a fan since ‘66.I’ve seen em all come and go.Ryan has the toughness,mental ability and physical abilty that exudes leadership.As I said before,I am a 61 yr old black man who looks past skin color to ability.Dude is good.I am glad to have him as my qb.I am behind you Matt.And dont get me wrong,I LOVED Mike.But I have….Moved on.
Najeh Davenpoop
November 23rd, 2009
8:58 pm
“The Giants were No. 1 in the NFL in total defense going into Sunday’s game.”
Total defense can be misleading, especially when you beat up on Washington, Tampa, Kansas City and Oakland to start the season, and when you are missing your starting middle linebacker who calls all your defensive plays. That said, a 2-minute drill like the one Ryan orchestrated yesterday deserves props no matter who is the opponent.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
9:00 pm
Real American,
Did you ever play, errr ANY football in your life??
If you did, you would know what I’m talking about.
Stop defending your BOYZ and get your shi!! straight.
lamac66
November 23rd, 2009
9:02 pm
\Three years of experience in a pro style offense, logically, should have you a lot more prepared for being an NFL quarterback than a year and a half in a college style offense.
Yep, Davenpoop.
It’s funny how little is mentioned that the falcons have taken Ryans senior year offense and have installed it. It’s smart of the staff but is rarely mentioned if any. So I would expect Ryan to look decent in an offense that he is very familiar with.
Thomas
November 23rd, 2009
9:05 pm
True Fans of Falcons.. Do not fall into this trap of Ryan VS Vick!!!! U cannot compare the two. I was the biggest MV fan around and still am but his time has come and gone. I knew it just like people around him knew it he had all the talent in the world but didnt use it. Coming late to practice leaving earlier. Hell i knew something was wrong by just looking at the Falcons when he was there. After hearing that interview that he did with James Brown i got pissed because i knew he was going to say he was not trying to improve on winning. He was to worried about HIMSELF!!! Not the team! I dont want anybody on any of the ATL teams that i go for on the teams to be that way. I would rather lose every damn game than to here that crap again. The problem doesn’t just begin with Matt hell its that damn DEFENSE with those short a@# corners!! Hell they are like 5 foot nothing!!! then they cant wrap anyone up. Plus we need someone else to go with Roddy White!! Jenkins is not the answer, then we need another running back also. Turner cant do it by himself… Then that damn front O line sucks it sucked when Vick was there! Dont get to caught up in Vick VS Matt!!!! True fans just worry about the direction the team is going. People said the same thing about P. Manning until he got get recievers and an O line! Now look at him the BEST IN THE GAME!!!! Look at the HAWKS it took them what 5 yrs until they started to come around.. Now they are the best in the east…. So dont be so fast to jump ship…. Hell even when Vick was here people still cried so just stop!!! IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE A FALCON GO ROOT FOR ANOTHER DAMN TEAM WE DONT NEED YOU!!!!! GO FALCONS!!!! GO MATTT RYAN!!
Once "Recent" Reader
November 23rd, 2009
9:05 pm
MBradley . . . . .on reading the quote about the Ryan being . . . “boring” (My interpretation:) ) during conversations. He was sort of like that at BC too . . .well maybe a bit more fiery back then as he was definitely BMOC then. I can think of a few other QBs I hope that are like that also that I hope he emulates on the field too. Brady and Manning come to mind . . . .although they are a bit more seasoned and probably more fun to listen to . . . .but they definitely make sure they don’t say anything that will negatively impact team . . or get other team riled up. I’ll take boring:)
Mark Bradley
November 23rd, 2009
9:13 pm
Ryan is very pleasant and very accommodating. He just works at not saying very much. That probably makes him a great teammate — he’s always giving credit to others — but not All-Interview material.
AB
November 23rd, 2009
9:17 pm
I meant a fan since 1968 boys and girls.