The Hot Button: Where would Tech finish in the SEC?
There's a difference between ACC speed and SEC speed. (AJC photo by Curtis Compton)
It’s clear – to me, if not to C.J. Spiller and Dabo Swinney — that Georgia Tech is the class of the ACC. But the ACC is often described as the least of the six BCS leagues, and another conference in the neighborhood is regarded as the best. So now, today’s question:
Where would Tech rank in the SEC?
My first inclination is to say the Jackets would finish wherever Mike Slive’s refs got together and decided they should be, but that’s my little joke. Getting serious, I’d say …
Second in the East behind Florida. Third in the West behind Alabama and LSU. Fourth overall.
That wailing you hear are the cries arising from the confluence of North Avenue and Techwood Drive, but hear me out. As good as Tech is — and it is very good — there’s still a difference between the personnel of a top-shelf SEC team and of everyone else. (Ask Jim Tressel.) This doesn’t mean Tech couldn’t up and beat Florida or Alabama or LSU on a given Saturday; it simply means that, on most given Saturdays, talent would prevail.
We’ve seen the difference between the SEC and the ACC three times in this city in the past 15 months. Alabama beat Clemson in the 2008 Chick-fil-A Kickoff Classic and then whipped Virginia Tech in the 2009 installment. LSU beat Tech 38-3 on Dec. 31, 2008. Three games on a neutral field, three emphatic SEC victories. Anyone who says there isn’t an imbalance between leagues, at least at their respective summits, isn’t dealing in reality.
On the other hand, SEC zealots are wrong to suggest the Jackets would finish far up the track in that famous league. Tech is better than Ole Miss, better than Auburn, better than South Carolina, better than Arkansas … yes, better than Georgia. To be placed below Florida and Alabama is no great failing, for those are two of the three best teams in the land, and to be deemed less gifted than LSU is no demerit, given that the Tigers have lost only to the Gators and the Tide.
Loading ...(And yes, I have noticed that Tech beat both Mississippi State and Vandy by one more point than did the mighty Gators. Whatever that means.)
Since you asked, I don’t think it’s a question of Paul Johnson’s offense not working in the SEC. It’s an issue instead of the SEC’s Big Three having superior defensive manpower. Nobody else in the ACC has the speed to keep up with Dwyer and Nesbitt and Roddy Jones; certain teams in the SEC do.
OK, there’s my take. Feel free to call me an idiot — pretty much everybody does — but know this: I do speak from observation. I’ve seen Tech and Florida and LSU in person both this season and last, and I saw Alabama in the imposing flesh twice in 2008. And I’m not trying to denigrate the Jackets, who might well be the nation’s fifth-best team. (After Florida, Texas, Alabama and LSU. Though I’m not suggesting LSU, with its two losses, should be ranked ahead of Tech in the polls.) I’m just telling you how I see it.
You’re now free to express yourselves on this weighty matter. Why do I feel you won’t need prompting?
And now, because fair’s fair: Where would Georgia rank in the ACC?
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901 comments Add your comment
SEC powerhouse NOT
November 11th, 2009
10:19 am
Bama,. you have so much to be proud of..throwing a brick thru a coaches window, can it get anymore redneck than that? LSU, all you can talk about is beating GT in CPJ’s first season with 16 freshman and soph. starters.. what about your coach, Les Miles? Thought he was suppose to walk on water, what happened? Who the he!! have you beaten? Your fans and alum, such as James Carville are the biggest backwoods rednecks I ever heard pronounce words. scoooootur libbie, you would think he would have taken speech lessons if he were going to be in the political limelight..
Tech82
November 11th, 2009
10:20 am
Cherokee – Please point out where I was crowing about a winning streak? Oh never mind, you’re just another of the UGA backers that posts without any basis in fact. I get it. I guess if my team was struggling to have a winning season, I would be inclined to create my own reality too.
Jaded Jacket
November 11th, 2009
10:20 am
If the SEC were so tough why have they been playing cupcakes for the past two weekends? They did the same at the beginning of the year. SEC teams are nothing but “kitty cats.”
Mark Bradley
November 11th, 2009
10:20 am
Sorry, Rico, to disillusion you. But we don’t have many staff meetings, and this post certainly wasn’t a product of one. It was, for better or worse, all mine.
Not everything is a conspiracy, FYI. Just the SEC officiating.
Arnold Decker
November 11th, 2009
10:20 am
Tech82 it’s your defense that would kill you in the SEC. Arkansas could probably hang 50 on it. That’s what you GT fans just aren’t intelligent enough to comprehend. In the SEC it’s about DEFENSE. And you don’t have one.
Almost Competitive Conference
November 11th, 2009
10:23 am
Suspiciously Eligible Conference and Jaded Jacket,
You tools are aware the ACC has F-I-V-E teams that aren’t even playing .500 ball, right? What a joke!!!
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:23 am
Im not saying its not possible. Ill be here if UGA beats Tech because I support my school and my team no matter what. If we lose to UGA this year it will be an Upset…something UGA fans arent used too. Im not saying Tech is the best team in the nation because we arent. We dont have a good defense but that doesnt matter as long as we keep winning. Im a Tech alumni and lifelong fan…not one of the new fair weather fans. I respect UGA’s talent but this year there are no excuses to losing to them because we are the better team.
SEC powerhouse NOT
November 11th, 2009
10:23 am
hey, Almost Competitive Conference
Bama and UFL play these teams in one season, hahahahahahahahahah you cannot make it up and by the way, Charleston Southern (Baptist College) is only a Div 1AA school because they were forced to be because of the basketball program. They have a enrollment of about 2000.
GTinJC
November 11th, 2009
10:24 am
naysay, nosay, idiotspeak,
Tech was the big boy in the SEC when we left. We left because the pu$$y commissioner wouldn’t do squat about bear bryant’s abuse of student athletes. Sign 130 to scholarships and cut loose all that don’t measure up as ball players. Dodd wouldn’t due that and stated that he would leave the SEC if it did not change. Man of his word.
Coach of the year trophy – Bobby Dodd – GT
Football player of the year trophy – John Heisman – GT
Athletic Administrator of the year award – Homer Rice – GT
4 National Championships
5 SEC Championships
Yeah we got no tradition, no football pedigree. I guess we can’t hang with the big bad (sic) sEC.
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:25 am
holy crap my grammar is bad…you can tell I went to Tech. The first to should be a for*
It could happen...
November 11th, 2009
10:27 am
Bamas the only team in the nation that can beat tech right now the way dwyer is running and that is because our center weighing at 255 would go against mount cody at 360 and not allow dwyer to run and if he is stuffed then mcclain could cover nesbitt with the secondary worrying about the pitch, cody is the only reason we would lose. thats why i want to play florida in the orange bowl beat them and become the first team in the modern era to defeat 4 SEC teams. WOW imagine if that really happen cause it could
GTinJC
November 11th, 2009
10:28 am
The tool is that you can’t comprehend that there are 4 ACC teams in the top 25 and 3 SEC teams. Wow, that must come as a real shock cause I know you tools can’t read most of the names.
AndyC
November 11th, 2009
10:28 am
Mark
Right on the money with this one. Tech fans need a reality check. They do not deserve to be playing for the championship. They are not nearly good enough to compete with the elite teams in the country. It’s probably better that they don’t get a shot at Flordia, Alabama, or Texas because it would be another embarrassing loss like the one to LSU last season. Bowl projections show that Tech might play a mediocre Iowa team. They can probably handle Iowa.
Arnold Decker
November 11th, 2009
10:29 am
Tech82, wrong again. GT bolted the SEC over scholarship limits only to get burned when the NCAA imposed limits across the board. The SEC wouldn’t take them back. Google and you will find this FACT. Idiot.
In 1971, the ACC lost a member in South Carolina, which two decades later in 1991 became a member of the Southeastern Conference. The ACC operated with seven members until the addition of a former Southeastern Conference member, the Georgia Institute of Technology (”Georgia Tech”) from the Metro Conference on April 3, 1978.
Buzz Belle
November 11th, 2009
10:29 am
Drill down to “Dodd wins …” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Tech_Yellow_Jackets_football
Who cares is the SEC is “better” than the ACC? Flip to basketball and what happens? All the more reason we need a playoff system.
smart
November 11th, 2009
10:30 am
I would have to say that I am a die hard uga fan. I even work in teh university system of georgia. However I have to tell it like it is. What’s wrong with Uga is that we keep giving them a pass. We keep calling them a powehouse. True powerhouses do not have drop offs like Uga. look at Fla, Ala, Lsu they keep rolling. So I would have to say Uga is a pretender want a be.
Georgia Tech has defifed the odds. No one though they would be where they are at today. The reason is the difference in coaching styles. True talent will make it to the NFL if thats what you or destined for. However what Uga is doing is annotting kids as NFL players and they come in acting like it, except they leave the football skills wherever they came from and the skills are not brought to Athens. Paul johnson on the other hand demands respect and reminds you that it is a priviledge to play Division 1 football and not a right.
For anyone to say that GT would not succeed in the SEC is living a pipe dream. I think with the way they run the ball , because the backs at GT are as good as any SEC back.
Solution CMR needs his fire back, also start back calling plays. Get rid of WM are demote.Lure Tommy Tuberville to be Defensive co. pay him whatever you need to then maybe we will start rolling at UGA.
But until GT shows other wise they are here to stay. So give them credit until they show us they don’t deserve it. The AJC keeps overshadowing GT, but maybe if you told the truth about the programs both would succeed. I am from the state of Georgia so I love any success that any of our schools should have over other states. Thats from Junior colleges to Division 1. So GT keep defying the odds and stay out of the media and you will continue to succeed.
Tech82
November 11th, 2009
10:31 am
Arnold Decker – I agree that our defense (or lack thereof) is our weak link this year. I don’t think you would find too many reasonable Tech fans that would argue that. Last time I checked, the “W” was awarded to the team with the most points and as long as you can’t stop our offense, we’ll outscore you. Just look at the FSU game. You’re right, Arkansas probably would hang 50 on us this year, but as long as we put up 51, it’s ok.
Froggy the Gremlin
November 11th, 2009
10:31 am
Heh Heh……Good one Bradley……Heh Heh……
Brian
November 11th, 2009
10:32 am
Hate to tell ya, but LSU hasn’t beaten or impressed anyone. Tech could certainly take Alabama. They just match up well with them. I’m going to have to go with 2nd.
SEC isn’t everything it’s made out to be folks.
Tech82
November 11th, 2009
10:34 am
Arnold Decker – If you take the time to actually read my post (that, of course, assumes you are literate), you will see that I never denied we were once members of the SEC. My point was that we DID NOT leave the SEC to join the ACC. You stand corrected.
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:34 am
Dodd’s tenure included Georgia Tech’s withdrawal from the Southeastern Conference.[14] The initial spark for Dodd’s withdrawal was a historic feud with Alabama Crimson Tide Coach Bear Bryant.[16] The feud began when Tech was visiting the Tide at Denny Stadium in 1961. After a Tech punt, Alabama fair-caught the ball. Chick Granning of Tech was playing coverage and relaxed after the signal for the fair catch. Darwin Holt of Alabama continued play and smashed his elbow into Granning’s face causing severe fracturing in his face, a broken nose, and blood-filled sinuses. Granning was knocked unconscious and suffered a severe concussion, the result of which left him unable to play football ever again. Dodd sent Bryant a letter asking Bryant to suspend Holt after game film indicated Holt had intentionally injured Granning.[16] Bryant never suspended Holt. The lack of discipline infuriated Dodd and sparked Dodd’s interest in withdrawing from the SEC.
Another issue of concern for Dodd was Alabama’s and other SEC schools’ over-recruitment of players.[16] Universities would recruit more players than they had roster space for. During the summer practice sessions, the teams in question would cut the players well after signing day thus preventing the cut players from finding new colleges to play for. Dodd appealed the SEC administration to punish the “tryout camps” of his fellow SEC members but the SEC did not. Finally, Dodd withdrew Georgia Tech from the SEC in 1963.[16] Tech would remain an independent like Notre Dame and Penn State (at the time) during the final four years of Dodd’s coaching tenure.
Hillbilly Deluxe
November 11th, 2009
10:35 am
Where would Tech rank in the SEC?
Ahead of Georgia.
smart
November 11th, 2009
10:35 am
Andy C,
Would Uga beat Iowa? Remember You play the schedule you are handed. GT beats who they are supposse to beat Uga doesnt.
SECfan
November 11th, 2009
10:36 am
Tech is good right now. But can they really bash Georgia? How many wins does UGA have over Tech? And how many years did UGA beat tech before they got a win? And before that it took seven years for Tech to put together a three year win streak. The point I am trying to prove is that UGA maybe down but they are still the elite program in the state. Tech fans bashing UGA is like UGA bashing Florida. It’s pointless because it is obvious they have your number. So go jack off to Nesbitt-Dwyer highlight film and soak in the glory days of your program because they will be back in the closet very soon. Trust me.
GameTime
November 11th, 2009
10:38 am
For the most part, a fair analysis. I wouldn’t necessarily put the Jackets behind LSU though. Defense may not be as strong but offense and coaching much better. I think that gives Tech the edge.
And I don’t believe the ACC is as weak as some want to suggest. Not much difference in my opinion with Big 11, Big 12, Big East, and Pac 10. What do the Sagarin rankings say?
CrazyVol
November 11th, 2009
10:40 am
Okay, I don’t really have a dog in this fight, since it appears that this has once again become a tech versus dawg discussion. First and foremost, tech is having a great year. Yea for you. But when you start off by stating that the SEC is not all that, you just show your ignorance and pretty much disagree with every known sports writer and authority in the field. The SEC is the premier conference and has been for a long time, and more then likely will be in the future.
As far as how Tech would do? Interesting. Could they take the weekly pounding form Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, Uga, LSU and still be a contender? That’s the big if? And one of the major issues the SEC has, our teams spend the season beating the heck out of each other, and by the end of the year most are worn out.
Froggy the Gremlin
November 11th, 2009
10:41 am
Tech would completely dominate the SEC, even with their more stringent academic requirements.
Mike
November 11th, 2009
10:43 am
This is not just a question of “who are they better than”. The fact is, the SEC has a lot more teams you have to show up against. Tech won shootouts over Miss St. and Vandy (combined 2 wins in the SEC). South Carolina, Arkansas, Auburn, Georgia, and Ole Miss all bring the firepower to overwhelm Tech’s defense. Georgia and Auburn being the only two with suspect defenses in return. Tennessee would likely shut the triple option down as completely as LSU, Alabama, or Florida. The recent display of offense at UT suggests they could score as well. Depending on how the schedule falls, Tech could wind up with a series of 4-5 brutal games in which a 2nd or 3rd place finish is wishful thinking.
The biggest difference is the SEC defensive lines. They are bigger and more athletic than any in the country (overall). The triple option would have a much tougher time in the SEC because half the teams sport D lines that can overwhelm Tech’s offensive line. Add to that, Tech’s defense stinks. You CANNOT win in the SEC without defense…ask UGA and Willie Martinez.
As a comparison, this year’s Tech team reminds me of last year’s UGA team. The difference is Auburn and Tennessee are much better this year (two teams UGA barely beat last year). That UGA team suffered 3 losses and won a couple of shootouts. Were UT and Auburn better, it could have been worse. Why? No defense.
If Tech has UGA’s current schedule, I predict at least 4 if not 5 losses. They would lose the opener @Oklahoma St., LSU, @UT, Florida, and I’m not sure they would beat both South Carolina and @Arkansas in back to back games after Oklahoma St.
Nativebird
November 11th, 2009
10:43 am
Without a Quarterback than can actually pass a football? Not too high. Get a double threat Quarterback? this Offense could possibly have them on TOP!
it is all about the lack of talent at GT’s qb position. and it is enormous.
VandyVendidad
November 11th, 2009
10:44 am
When you consider that Vanderbilt’s offense put up 24 on Tech (far more than they’ve scored on any SEC opponent), it’s certainly fair to say their defense is far from SEC-calibur.
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:45 am
SEC fan every program has down years. Tech has won at least 7 games for like 15 straight years….thats consistently being average. Now that Johnson is here I dont think we will ever lose more than four games with him as our head coach. The future is so bright right now at Tech and just like with Nebraska, UT, FSU, UF, and Miami during thier perspective glory years…tech seems to be on the cusp of something very big. Keep saying we cant recruit..keep saying we cant win. It just adds fuel too PJ’s fire and you folks are providing the ammunition for your own demise. GO JACKETS!!
Delbert D.
November 11th, 2009
10:46 am
First in the Big 10
First in the PAC 10
Second in the Big 12
Hopefully, First in the ACC
Saint Simons
November 11th, 2009
10:48 am
Sec plays 31 cupcake teams!!!!!!!
Tech82
November 11th, 2009
10:48 am
Nativebird – Other than Tebow (Fla) and Mallett (Ark), which SEC quarterbacks do you consider better passers than Josh Nesbitt?
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:48 am
Vandy…I have said over and over our defense sucks…I said the offense is our best defense by clock control…can you people read an entire post and not just a few sentences….geez why can no one in this country read anything longer than a few sentences…no wonder we have fallen so far behind the rest of the world. If your offense doesnt get the ball…they cant score.
Eagle-Jacket
November 11th, 2009
10:49 am
I would say GT would rank 3rd in the SEC. Not bad considering the 1 & 2 in the SEC are 1 &2 nationally. But Tony, I’m surprised! Your column is just a “Poke in the eye”,to the sainted Bulldogs!
Andrew
November 11th, 2009
10:49 am
If Georgia Tech played in the SEC, they would finish 4th in the SEC West and 4th in the SEC East. Looking at the East, Tech would have to play Monte Kiffin’s Defense at UT, Florida,Georgia and Kentucky. You might laugh at this fact but lets look at the reality, GT struggled against a very small Wake Forest defense. Now add more size and faster speed and GT would get manhandled by Alabama, LSU (they already manhandled GT last year), Auburn, Florida, and Tennessee. But thats just my perspective.
Sugar Hill Dawg
November 11th, 2009
10:50 am
Ed77 – Tech w/d from the SEC due to greed. Bobby Dodd created a monster in the 50s and 60s – they had to share whatever $$ from their bowl with everyone else. Smart move, as it turned out. Coach Dodd retires, Tech falls into oblivion, joins a joke conference after the SEC tells ‘em to buzz off when they tried to get back in, then wallows in obscurity for decades. (Yeah – I’m aware they won a split NC in 1990 – great team that year.) Coaches Ross, O’Leary and Johnson had moments – I’m looking forward to seeing what CPJ can accomplish at The Flats. Unlike most UGA alums, I root for Tech until the Last Saturday In November. I’m enough of a realist to recognize UGA can’t win ‘em all forever, but I’ll take Mark Richt’s record against the Jackets any time! Maybe after this year the Tech folks will get off their wallets and buy some tickets. My son’s in the AUMB, so I’m really looking forward to Saturday night in Athens. Once that bit of family business is done, I’ll look forward to UGA’s biannual win in Midtown! Go Dawgs!
mansup01
November 11th, 2009
10:50 am
I’m a jacket fan…….but have you guys seen the Jacket defense? I agree with Mark in that fourth is about correct. Tech could outscore the remaining members of the conference, but I’m afraid the top three would just score too often. Go Jackets.
banners
November 11th, 2009
10:52 am
Tech can’t handle the SEC, which is why they bolted from the conference years ago!!
sam
November 11th, 2009
10:52 am
Tech is good and florida is good, or better than good, at least fl. is…I saw them in Jax….The glue for these two teams are their Quarterback……Take them out or graduate and they are different teams….still good but not nearly as good as they are now…I saw Tebo on 3rd down 4 or 5 times just take over and make it and we knew he was coming and couldn’t stop him….And neither could tech stop him, he would get 200 yards against tech….All said we’ll know next year about fla.without Tebo….I’m telling you all, he is the best in college football with that team…..Nesbit, as good as he is with techs running game, he could never start for fla….That’s why UGA wanted him as a DBack and he’d be heading for Sunday play after next year instead of the real estate business 2 years from now……Book it…
wiley
November 11th, 2009
10:54 am
Andrew but we also played Clemson,UNC, FSU, and Miami(even though though we lost). All those teams have incredible amounts of talent and field players with similar size and speed. Clemson has two five star Defensive ends, UNC has multiple 5 star and four star defensive players,and we all know FSU and Miami are loaded…I mean loaded with defensive talent. UNC’s defense is almost a mirror image of UT’s defense. As for Auburn and UGA’s defense…they matchup very well with FSU’s lmao!
Evans
November 11th, 2009
10:54 am
The ACC currently has 5 teams not even playing .500 ball. By season’s end, half the conference will be below .500. What a joke and disgrace to college football the ACC is.
Jaded Jacket
November 11th, 2009
10:56 am
Here’s something to chew on. The ACC and SEC both have 12 teams. However, the SEC, as mighty as they are, will have played 10 more cupcake opponents than the ACC in 2009. That’s almost an average of one more easy game per team in the SEC. Kinda weak in my opinion.
chemdawg
November 11th, 2009
10:57 am
Strength of schedule (sos) matters, but the statistics used to define sos are worthless unless there is significant overlap between the teams opponents you are comparing. Whenever won-loss records are used to determine the strength of opponents who play cupcakes (and the opponents of the opponents play cupcakes themselves) the stats are skewed. For example, what is the strength of schedule of little billy’s peewee football team? Well they rank ahead of Tech, so they would obviously dominate the ACC!
mansup01
November 11th, 2009
10:58 am
By the way, it has been a long time since Wake was Weak Forest. They are disciplined, smart, tough, and well coached……unlike UGA and some other members of the SEC. I only wish UGA played Wake…..that would be a fun afternoon for Tech fans. Talk about humiliating the dawgs!
To suggest that Ky is significant at all is ridiculous. UGA has been struggling with that “powerhouse” for years and once again the UGA fans have justified this and turned it into glory.
The Riddler
November 11th, 2009
10:58 am
Jacketnation, answer me this. How come a large portion of Georgia Tech atheletes take many of their classes at Georgia State. Oh yeah, how did your boy Joe Hamilton do in those Calculus classes? I’d say Josh Nesbitt is doing about as good as he did.
Vols_1
November 11th, 2009
10:58 am
Tech would do well in its first year. In the second year with some experience against that offense, Tech would join Vandy at the bottom of the conference. On defense, Tech doesn’t have the athletes to compete.
Bat Man
November 11th, 2009
10:58 am
If tech was in the interplanetary conference, they would finsih no worse than second, right behind Uranus.
This is nonsense.
Jaded Jacket
November 11th, 2009
10:59 am
Evans, look at who the SEC is playing out of conference. The SEC schedules easy games to pad their win totals.